Related
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Nocturnal310 said:
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Xperia is more sensitive than an iPhone. Granted I did some tweaking, but still.
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
enigma1nz said:
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No? So, you have spied on me using my phone and know that it is not more sensitive? Pffft...
iphone rockz!
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be sorry, because you are wrong. Do your research better and come back to apologize.
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Do capacititve screens have a separation issue like some of the HTC resistive screens have?
Where the layers of a resistive screen including the digitizer start to separate causing a rectangular shape in the center that looks like oil on water.
Has happened to me and many others where the screen eventually has a complete failure.
I do know that the capacitive screens on the iPhone are prone to breakage due to the fact that it has a glass surface.
The resistive screen of the Diamond is less prone to breakage because it has a plastic type film on the surface.
Btw, my screen is pretty sensitive, whether using the stylus or touch.
You can tweak your resistiv screen by allign screen.
If you dont press the screen and move little circles between the arrow you can make screen more sensitiv
Sorry for my english cause i am german
Black93300ZX said:
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting... I didn't know that
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
darren shan said:
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys there is a cab called iTouch for blackstone and it tweaks the resistance to ultra-sensitive, works like a charm. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469865 , try it.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
Not necessarily true. The Nexus One has a capacitive screen and also has the dots...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Multi-touch
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Sorry to add fuel to fire but a capacitive screen will always be more sensitive (speaking purely about the physics of it) than a resisitive screen.
Why?
Capacitive screens rely on charge and comparative charge of two bodies. In some instances, capacitive screens can work without the finger actually touching the screen.
Resistive screens rely on a minute deflection from contact to connect two conductive layers. You can touch a resistive screen lightly enough to not result in a UI interaction. Resisitve screens can be tweaked to work at a very high sensitivity but still not as sensitive as a capacitive screen.
Go ahead, compare two phones with opposing screen tech side by side. I thought nothing could be as responsive as my Topaz till I bought a Nexus, then Desire (which have other issues btw! )
Sorry but thats the blunt science behind it. Bear in mind the perception of responsiveness to touch can very well depend on the quality/smoothness of the software written or the user interface.
Source:
HTC Touch Diamond 2 vs. HTC Desire
Source 2:
My university degree.
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
eulalie said:
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ozy944 said:
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
eulalie said:
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A dilemma huh? To be brutally honest, most budget oriented tablets are simply that: budget oriented. A lot of them (im trying not to generalize) and Ive tried a fair few are poorly implemented tablets and more trouble than they are worth. Slow, laggy, bad battery life. You'll have enough issues to simply forget the lack of multi touch.
If I was after a tablet, hard as it may be, Id wait till some big players launch a proper device...that'll lead to better adoption and less half baked tablets that are more tech demo than retail product.
Bear in mind the lack of android market access on almost all of these tablets. Due to their generic nature, dev work is also a no-go. Everybody and their friends and family have a device out with a costomised, baked os that its not even funny!
Id check out the galaxy tablet from samsung or wait for it to make some waves and bring forth better implemented copycat products
yodafone said:
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC HD2 is a capacitive touch-screen phone, was mass marketed on WM and has the dots (not horizontally but diagonally). Dont talk about it if you dont know about it.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/htc-hd2-first-windows-mobile-with-capacitive-touchscreen-49303837/
Hi
Anyone else having problems with the touchscreen taking maybe 5 presses for you to be able to select for example a menu option? This is really starting to bug me now. So much so I'm thinking of sending it back to t-mobile and cancelling the contract.
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers
Andy
Try an Calibration in the settings menu.
There isn't a screen calibration setting on this handset. I wasn't aware we had to do this on these capacitive screens.
My X10 doesn't work like that at all. How hard do you press? Does it work in one press if you press harder?
Press harder on as capacitive display?
You'll have to place your second hand on the metal frame and it'll work perfect.
Dry hands are also not good.
boo6 said:
Press harder on as capacitive display?
You'll have to place your second hand on the metal frame and it'll work perfect.
Dry hands are also not good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. If you press harder a larger area of your finger touches the display. I.E. more for the digitizer to sense.
boo6 said:
Dry hands are also not good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely noticing this. I'm not exactly the type of guy to regularly moisturize my hands. I work in construction, and this capacitive screen absolutely sucks for me. I've been using resistive screens beautifully up to this point. I find I often have to lick my thumb regularly to get the screen to work properly. I have a ton of trouble unlocking the phone, since the screen thinks I've lifted my thumb halfway through the pattern. Using swype is a nightmare for this reason as well.
There are resistive multitouch screens on laptops and desktops now. I hope we see a swing back to resistive screens on smartphones.
I'm experiencing this problem aswell an i'm pretty much sure this is all software related, you can actually see the interface reacting to the press but it seems like the device never executes the action forcing you to press multiple times, annoying as hell yes! I sincerely hope SE fixes this in the next update.
Has anyone had any problems with accuracy? In some apps the touch registers like 5mm below where I actually touch.
I think the stock screen protector hinders the touch sensitivity quite a bit. Try getting a thinner screen protector. There is a thread talking about how sensitivity and accuracy improved when they took theirs off.
needmoregigs said:
I think the stock screen protector hinders the touch sensitivity quite a bit. Try getting a thinner screen protector. There is a thread talking about how sensitivity and accuracy improved when they took theirs off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip but I already have an uberthin protector. That brand has worked very well on all other capacitive displays I've had. I'm suspecting a software bug rather than a hardware issue.
needmoregigs said:
I think the stock screen protector hinders the touch sensitivity quite a bit. Try getting a thinner screen protector. There is a thread talking about how sensitivity and accuracy improved when they took theirs off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I jammed my X10 in a sports armband for Ipod touch, it has a very thick plastic window and it did not affect the sensetivity a bit so i dont think the thin stock protector will do any difference. Just my opinion
ddewbofh said:
Has anyone had any problems with accuracy? In some apps the touch registers like 5mm below where I actually touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed that on the dialer application.
Sometimes, while I am on Recent Calls section, I press the green telephone next to a contact and it calls the one right below it!
Haven't ever noticed any sort of oddness like that... and I have a thick screen protector on top of the stock one.
Occasionally I'll type a letter wrong, but that seems to have improved with the update from two weeks ago.
i was looking on one device on the bestbuy store and when i was
deflecting the device i could notice the a matrix of spots/dots on screen
that never disappear only if i hold the device in some angle it would be not noticeable...
so i wanted to ask:
1. Am I the only one that saw that?!
2. if i will put a protect cover on screen it will make this dots/spots not seen?
Perfectly normal. The glass is supposed to be Gorilla, so I wouldn't even bother with a protector.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium
why is that normal ?
i haven't saw that on a PlayBook or a iPad or a Samsubg tab...
so why is this normal ?!
That's the grid for the capacitive touch sensor. On some devices it's more visible than others. I guess Amazon is using one of the more visible ones on the Fire.
Since this is bothering me very much, do you think if i would apply over it a protector it would be non-visible ?
Eh I can't see it on mine at all. Maybe It's just the display.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D.
labbala said:
Since this is bothering me very much, do you think if i would apply over it a protector it would be non-visible ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it, but you can try. FWIW, I can see the dots, but they only appear at an angle with certain glare on the screen. Doesn't bother me.
It's normal. You most likely noticed it due to light reflecting on it at a certain angle. My ipad had those, and my touchpad has them. I don't notice it unless the screen is off and its held at an off angle with a good amount of light reflecting off the surface. You don't notice it while it's on.
This was VERY visible on my Nexus One, but isn't on my Sensation. It's back on the Kindle, but you only notice it when.the screen is off. It depends on the display, and I think the more reflective the screen, the less you see.
Sent from my Sensation using XDA App
It has both dots and also a grid matrix. You can see it on every one, just have to turn the unit *just so* to see it.
My understanding from a post on Amazon about the device is that its not a capacitve or resistive touch screen but an infrared touch screen.
Confirmed myself that it is not capacitive as you can touch it with anything and it responds, where my iphone and Captivate do not.
Food for thought. Has anyone else heard of an IR touchscreen before?
Ive always been able to see the dots on every touch device I've owned. Just requires the right angle and light.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk.
gd1147 said:
My understanding from a post on Amazon about the device is that its not a capacitve or resistive touch screen but an infrared touch screen.
Confirmed myself that it is not capacitive as you can touch it with anything and it responds, where my iphone and Captivate do not.
Food for thought. Has anyone else heard of an IR touchscreen before?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, they're just rarely used, because the technology has only been reasonably cheap/simple for a few years (iirc), whereas capacitative and resistant touchscreens have been around for much, much longer.
Also, touching the screen with a pen lid doesn't do anything for me. You sure it works with *anything*? I got it to work with a piece of moleskin, though, so... maybe it's just certain things?
mewshi said:
Yeah, they're just rarely used, because the technology has only been reasonably cheap/simple for a few years (iirc), whereas capacitative and resistant touchscreens have been around for much, much longer.
Also, touching the screen with a pen lid doesn't do anything for me. You sure it works with *anything*? I got it to work with a piece of moleskin, though, so... maybe it's just certain things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just able to unlock using a paper napkin folded three times to make sure it wasn't skin touching anywhere. Tried with my leather wallet and it didn't react. Very strange. Also tried a microfiber cleaning cloth, didn't react on my iphone or captivate but worked on my fire. Wheird.
gd1147 said:
My understanding from a post on Amazon about the device is that its not a capacitve or resistive touch screen but an infrared touch screen.
Confirmed myself that it is not capacitive as you can touch it with anything and it responds, where my iphone and Captivate do not.
Food for thought. Has anyone else heard of an IR touchscreen before?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Kindle with the IR touch screen is the Kindle Touch, which uses the IR touch screen because capacitive touch screens aren't available for the E-Ink screen yet. IR touch screens work by shooting IR lasers across the screen in a grid format, so a touch would trip IR lasers, and which lasers are tripped can be used to calculate where the touch is in. That's what they use on the Nook Simple Touch, too. I remember my old car built-in GPS was an IR touch screen. You could trick it by blocking the IR receivers.
Nowadays, most LED touch screens are capacitive, which is what's on the Kindle Fire (the reason why there's dots on the screen - I think they're the sensors that measure the capacitance to calculate the location of the touch).
The Galaxy Note has been doing well for me. The audio is much more acceptable than the S2, and the camera is wicked smooth; no lag, no judder. Horizontal lines and black dots is something I see in every Note I come across.
However a new observation arises.
Sometimes, when I am using my fingers to tough the display I see imprints that appear on the screen and almost instantly disappears. Are the screens pressure-sensitive, or is this something only I am facing. It feels like pressing on a conventional LCD screen and the imprints appear for a couple of seconds then disappear. On the note, they appear and disappear almost a fraction-of-a-second.
Please let me know, thank you.
my note doesn't show this behavior, sounds a little like the problem with the "newton rings" on the 10.1 tab! there the issue is also pressure-related, but due to case instabilities due to the demand for ultra-thin devices (in this case: to less space between lcd and protective glass)!
i would consider a swap if i were you...
regards,
markus
I don't know, I saw it earlier, but don't see it anymore. Feels like my eyes are playing me, lol. When you go into LCD test I can see it there. I'm guessing it is more to do with the light sensor. Turn Autobrightness off, best solution for now.
TML1504 said:
my note doesn't show this behavior, sounds a little like the problem with the "newton rings" on the 10.1 tab! there the issue is also pressure-related, but due to case instabilities due to the demand for ultra-thin devices (in this case: to less space between lcd and protective glass)!
i would consider a swap if i were you...
regards,
markus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My screen doesn't behave like this either. Is it only with your finger, or with the S-Pen too?
I too would claim a replacement from Samsung.
this is gonna sound humiliating, the screen is so reflective, I figured that it was my own finger resembling the imprint. There was no imprint afterall, the shadow of my finger would move adjacent with my actual finger, lol. False Alarm
Moderator: Please delete this thread. Thank you.
The Note's screen is too reflective
Lol, that is hilarious!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
You could try to sue Samsung lol
Does anyone know if the use of an anti glare screen protector or any screen protector for that matter would affect touch sensitivity of the Nexus 7? I'm currently using an anti glare screen protector for the Galaxy Tab (2) 10.1 which I trimmed down for temporary use with the Nexus 7 until the ones I ordered online arrive.
However, I notice that whenever I'm doing things such as rapidly scrolling through lists, the kinetic scrolling will suddenly stop every once in a while. This also occasionally happens with the notification center, where I'm in the middle of pulling down the notification bar and it acts as though my finger only pulled it down part way, which either results in the notification bar to retract back to the top of the screen or to fall open on its own without the use of my finger.
Does anyone know if using a screen protector would cause problems with touch screen sensitivity? I have qualms about returning this or exchanging it as it's the 3rd one I have gotten and it has no other problems as far as I can tell.
Tl;dr ver: Do screen protectors affect touch screen sensitivity?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
As distance increases the capacitance effectively decreases, yes. So the thicker the material layers are between your fingertip and the underlying sensor the less responsive (or less sensitive) the sensing becomes. This correlation occurs on a logarithmic scale and most devices I've looked at spec out at about 6mm - where 6mm of material effectively inhibits sensing completely. Most phone screens that's I've been able to investigate have about 0.6mm to 0.8mm of material already. I don't know what the thickness of the typical protector sheets are but even if yours is 1mm thick (which would be very thick actually!) it shouldn't effect touch registrations by very much. A little bit yes, but I guess it wouldn't be noticeable in practice.
Of course the easy way to find out is to turn on the touch indicators if your phone/kernel support it and try it both with and without the protector in place.
One way to increase touch sensitivity with your device is to increase your iron intake. Iron tablets are cheap and good for you. Make SURE you follow any dosage instructions on the label as iron is one of those minerals which can cause problems if you over dose yourself.
Bifurcator said:
As distance increases the capacitance effectively decreases, yes. So the thicker the material layers are between your fingertip and the underlying sensor the less responsive (or less sensitive) the sensing becomes. This correlation occurs on a logarithmic scale and most devices I've looked at spec out at about 6mm - where 6mm of material effectively inhibits sensing completely. Most phone screens that's I've been able to investigate have about 0.6mm to 0.8mm of material already. I don't know what the thickness of the typical protector sheets are but even if your is 1mm thick (which would be very thick actually!) it shouldn't effect touch registrations by very much. A little bit yes, but I guess it wouldn't be noticeable in practice.
Of course the easy way to find out is to turn on the touch indicators if your phone/kernel support it and try it both with and without the protector in place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like a pretty good amount of knowledge you have on screen protectors. Although, I wonder if it is also a possibility that the screen itself is flawed. I often find myself testing the touch screen with multi touch apps and I can never see any point where the screen will not register a touch. It also doesn't seem to be software based either it occurred on stock as well as CM10.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
I of course wouldn't know if your sensor was defective or not. But the design is extremely simple and the way they work would imply that if it worked in one area of the screen it will work across the entire screen given that the relative dielectric constant is even throughout the material volume. And if it wasn't you would likely see it as thousands of micro-bubbles, cracks, or other aberrations.
Also keep in mind that temperature and humidity have affect as well.
Bifurcator said:
I of course wouldn't know if your sensor was defective or not. But the design is extremely simple and the way they work would imply that if it worked in one area of the screen it will work across the entire screen given that the relative dielectric constant is even throughout the material volume. And if it wasn't you would likely see it as thousands of micro-bubbles, cracks, or other aberrations.
Also keep in mind that temperature and humidity have affect as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the explanations. Looks like I'll spend a few days experimenting with and without a a screen protector in order to deduct if the screen protector is at fault or if it is a defect within the product.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
MidnightXZ said:
Thanks for the explanations. Looks like I'll spend a few days experimenting with and without a a screen protector in order to deduct if the screen protector is at fault or if it is a defect within the product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NP, you're welcome. And take some iron tablets!
Bifurcator said:
NP, you're welcome. And take some iron tablets!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iron tablets? Do they increase my ability to interact with a capacitive touch screen or something? xD
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
MidnightXZ said:
Iron tablets? Do they increase my ability to interact with a capacitive touch screen or something? xD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep! The difference between a person with an iron deficiency and someone with a goodly amount can be enormous. In typical variations (say a poor iron intake in the diet compounded by a blood donation or menstruation as opposed to a person eating right and supplementing) can be over two times in terms of touch sensitivity.
If there's zero iron in your blood (besides being in danger of immediate death from organ failure.. ) your touch screen will not be able to detect you at all. The iron in an individual's blood creates strings of capacitors between every epidermal surface of the body. When someone creates a capacitance by touching (or actually even moving into proximity) of the sensor's conductor it creates a capacitance (essentially coupling to ground) by adding a second capacitance (you) in parallel to the sensor's capacitance. When such a ground is introduced the charge-time (frequency) of the sensor slows way down and a "touch" is registered. This is the basic premiss (in brief!) behind Capacitive Touch Sensing (CTS). There's other things going on as well depending on the type of touch screen but almost all of them (found in cell phones) depend on this basic principal.
Fun facts aye? LOL
Bifurcator said:
Yep! The difference between a person with an iron deficiency and someone with a goodly amount can be enormous. In typical variations (say a poor iron intake in the diet compounded by a blood donation or menstruation as opposed to a person eating right and supplementing) can be over two times in terms of touch sensitivity.
If there's zero iron in your blood (besides being in danger of immediate death from organ failure.. ) your touch screen will not be able to detect you at all. The iron in an individual's blood creates strings of capacitors between every epidermal surface of the body. When someone creates a capacitance by touching (or actually even moving into proximity) of the sensor's conductor it creates a capacitance (essentially coupling to ground) by adding a second capacitance (you) in parallel to the sensor's capacitance. This is the basic premiss (in brief!) behind Capacitive Touch Sensing (CTS). There's other things going on as well depending on the type of touch screen but almost all of them (found in cell phones) depend on this basic principal.
Fun facts aye? LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very fun indeed. xD
I had problems with 2 different screen films. One was a iPad one trimmed down to fit the other a nexus 7 one ordered online. Both seemed OK for one or two touches but lost all when I tried some games, like bad piggies and plants vs zombies. Had to take them off .
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Yeah, it certainly is possible. It sounds like the nexus 7's sensor may be a bit on the weak side just from reading here.
<shrug>
Bifurcator said:
Yeah, it certainly is possible. It sounds like the nexus 7's sensor may be a bit on the weak side just from reading here.
<shrug>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first Nexus 7 had no problems with an anti glare screen protector although it did have screen lift albeit, that screen protector was designed for it. 2nd was replaced within 5 minutes if purchasing. 3rd and current one seem to have intermittent touch issues when swiping. Although I have yet to determine if the cause is the screen protector or the device itself.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Any progress?
I think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the screen protector. But there are many kinds of touch screens and if the Nexus7 just happens to be using some hybrid that needs pressure then it's certainly possible.
Think of CTS screens (almost) as proximity sensors. They can actually sense (you) from around a foot away quite easily. As the distance decreases the "signal strength" increases. If we apply an arbitrary numerical value to that signal strength it /might/ look something like:
9 inches - 0.01
8 inches - 0.02
7 inches - 0.02
6 inches - 0.03
5 inches - 0.04
4 inches - 0.05
3 inches - 0.07
2 inches - 0.10
1 inches - 0.20
0.1 inches - 1.00
0.001 inches - 2.00
0" full contact - 10.00
But typically the software algorithms which determine whether a touch event has occurred or not imply a threshold value of (again arbitrary for the sake of example), 9.00. The dielectric properties of "the" plastics of interest for protectors and screens have been thoroughly examined and established AFAIK. They do disperse the electrical force somewhat via factors such as air-space between the protector layer and the screen, whatever insulating impurities may be present in the protector material, the material's own molecular structure, and etc. The amount of electrical field dispersion or distortion that occurs through the material is a function of the materials thickness in the case of the materials commonly being used. Maybe you can imagine looking at a flashlight through murky/milky water where the closer you get the stronger the signal and the more clarity (of the source) can be distinguished. Where this "strength/clarity" begins to become a problem for software "touch" detection is usually around 5mm or 6mm (of commonly used material) between your fingertip and the sensor. If different materials are used this distance changes and can change radically. In keeping with my photovoltaic example, if the material in question could act like a tight bundle of optical fibers (only of course conducting electricity and not light) then the "protective" material could be meters thick without being detrimental to the registration of a touch event.
This is why i think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the protector... But everything factor's in. Body weight, blood iron content, protector material impurities, humidity (RH), temperature, skin moisture, variations in the Earth's electrical field from area to area and over time, material thickness, the software algorithm's threshold values, and so on. If they all come together in just the wrong way you could experience the touch registration intermittence you are describing - for sure. And with millions and millions of sensor screens being manufactured it could also be faulty connections there too but /that/ would be my very last guess as they really are ultra-simply constructed. If it's charging at all it should (famous last words) work equally across the entire surface area.
---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------
Have a look at that poll thread tho:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=9771
416 people report screen separation and almost 130 people report touch-screen malfunction.
That's pretty radical! Maybe it's time to ditch Nexus7 all together?
Bifurcator said:
Any progress?
I think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the screen protector. But there are many kinds of touch screens and if the Nexus7 just happens to be using some hybrid that needs pressure then it's certainly possible.
Think of CTS screens (almost) as proximity sensors. They can actually sense (you) from around a foot away quite easily. As the distance decreases the "signal strength" increases. If we apply an arbitrary numerical value to that signal strength it /might/ look something like:
9 inches - 0.01
8 inches - 0.02
7 inches - 0.02
6 inches - 0.03
5 inches - 0.04
4 inches - 0.05
3 inches - 0.07
2 inches - 0.10
1 inches - 0.20
0.1 inches - 1.00
0.001 inches - 2.00
0" full contact - 10.00
But typically the software algorithms which determine whether a touch event has occurred or not imply a threshold value of (again arbitrary for the sake of example), 9.00. The dielectric properties of "the" plastics of interest for protectors and screens have been thoroughly examined and established AFAIK. They do disperse the electrical force somewhat via factors such as air-space between the protector layer and the screen, whatever insulating impurities may be present in the protector material, the material's own molecular structure, and etc. The amount of electrical field dispersion or distortion that occurs through the material is a function of the materials thickness in the case of the materials commonly being used. Maybe you can imagine looking at a flashlight through murky/milky water where the closer you get the stronger the signal and the more clarity (of the source) can be distinguished. Where this "strength/clarity" begins to become a problem for software "touch" detection is usually around 5mm or 6mm (of commonly used material) between your fingertip and the sensor. If different materials are used this distance changes and can change radically. In keeping with my photovoltaic example, if the material in question could act like a tight bundle of optical fibers (only of course conducting electricity and not light) then the "protective" material could be meters thick without being detrimental to the registration of a touch event.
This is why i think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the protector... But everything factor's in. Body weight, blood iron content, protector material impurities, humidity (RH), temperature, skin moisture, variations in the Earth's electrical field from area to area and over time, material thickness, the software algorithm's threshold values, and so on. If they all come together in just the wrong way you could experience the touch registration intermittence you are describing - for sure. And with millions and millions of sensor screens being manufactured it could also be faulty connections there too but /that/ would be my very last guess as they really are ultra-simply constructed. If it's charging at all it should (famous last words) work equally across the entire surface area.
---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------
Have a look at that poll thread tho:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=9771
416 people report screen separation and almost 130 people report touch-screen malfunction.
That's pretty radical! Maybe it's time to ditch Nexus7 all together?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's been no change in screen sensitivity since I removed the screen protector. I think what you're saying may be correct. I have also noticed intermittent multi touch issues present within certain actions such as pinch to zoom where the touch of the secondary finger is constantly flickering in the sense that the connection between the finger and the touch screen is rapidly switching between being detected and not being detected by the device.
I think at this point, it is almost guaranteed that the screen protector was not the cause of the screen sensitivity issues and that it is a defect within the device itself. I think this is quite unfortunate as I was finally able to get a unit without no sign of screen lift.
Maybe it is time to ditch the nexus 7, however I will not be a part of it as I still think that the nexus 7 is a great device which has many uses along with the added benefit of being a nexus device. Besides, I'm still within my 30 day exchange, so this just gives me a reason to return it and grab the 32GB version.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Kewl,
Yeah, I'm a total n00b and dunno anything about Nexus7 (nor enough other phones to compare it to anything) so if you think it's worth keeping by all means you should.
BTW, did try popping an iron tab or two?
Bifurcator said:
Yep! The difference between a person with an iron deficiency and someone with a goodly amount can be enormous. In typical variations (say a poor iron intake in the diet compounded by a blood donation or menstruation as opposed to a person eating right and supplementing) can be over two times in terms of touch sensitivity.
If there's zero iron in your blood (besides being in danger of immediate death from organ failure.. ) your touch screen will not be able to detect you at all. The iron in an individual's blood creates strings of capacitors between every epidermal surface of the body. When someone creates a capacitance by touching (or actually even moving into proximity) of the sensor's conductor it creates a capacitance (essentially coupling to ground) by adding a second capacitance (you) in parallel to the sensor's capacitance. When such a ground is introduced the charge-time (frequency) of the sensor slows way down and a "touch" is registered. This is the basic premiss (in brief!) behind Capacitive Touch Sensing (CTS). There's other things going on as well depending on the type of touch screen but almost all of them (found in cell phones) depend on this basic principal.
Fun facts aye? LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bifurcator said:
I of course wouldn't know if your sensor was defective or not. But the design is extremely simple and the way they work would imply that if it worked in one area of the screen it will work across the entire screen given that the relative dielectric constant is even throughout the material volume. And if it wasn't you would likely see it as thousands of micro-bubbles, cracks, or other aberrations.
Also keep in mind that temperature and humidity have affect as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is this guy? Stephen Hawking?
I need a bloody iron tab after reading all that !!
Bifurcator said:
Kewl,
Yeah, I'm a total n00b and dunno anything about Nexus7 (nor enough other phones to compare it to anything) so if you think it's worth keeping by all means you should.
BTW, did try popping an iron tab or two?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope! The problem was isolated only to my Nexus 7 and not my HTC Amaze, so I didn't bother.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Wilks3y said:
Who is this guy? Stephen Hawking?
I need a bloody iron tab after reading all that !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe...
MidnightXZ said:
There's been no change in screen sensitivity since I removed the screen protector. I think what you're saying may be correct. I have also noticed intermittent multi touch issues present within certain actions such as pinch to zoom where the touch of the secondary finger is constantly flickering in the sense that the connection between the finger and the touch screen is rapidly switching between being detected and not being detected by the device.
I think at this point, it is almost guaranteed that the screen protector was not the cause of the screen sensitivity issues and that it is a defect within the device itself. I think this is quite unfortunate as I was finally able to get a unit without no sign of screen lift.
Maybe it is time to ditch the nexus 7, however I will not be a part of it as I still think that the nexus 7 is a great device which has many uses along with the added benefit of being a nexus device. Besides, I'm still within my 30 day exchange, so this just gives me a reason to return it and grab the 32GB version.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been using Huawei G700 for 9 months now but the problem, similar to what you described befell this phone. Sometimes it lags, inaccurate point selections and cant pull the notification bar to the bottom, unless I "hurl" it down. Could it be the screen (no any visible damage) or some internal functioning. I had to reformat it, no solution yet.
I found out what my issue was with the unresponsiveness on my nexus 7 (2013). What it was, was that I didn't remove the protective film from the anti-glare screen protector. I realized it when i was completely going to eliminate the screen protector and see if by doing so my screen would responded better but realized what I was removing was the protective film and not the anti-glare screen protector. My screen is very responsive now.