Does anyone know if the use of an anti glare screen protector or any screen protector for that matter would affect touch sensitivity of the Nexus 7? I'm currently using an anti glare screen protector for the Galaxy Tab (2) 10.1 which I trimmed down for temporary use with the Nexus 7 until the ones I ordered online arrive.
However, I notice that whenever I'm doing things such as rapidly scrolling through lists, the kinetic scrolling will suddenly stop every once in a while. This also occasionally happens with the notification center, where I'm in the middle of pulling down the notification bar and it acts as though my finger only pulled it down part way, which either results in the notification bar to retract back to the top of the screen or to fall open on its own without the use of my finger.
Does anyone know if using a screen protector would cause problems with touch screen sensitivity? I have qualms about returning this or exchanging it as it's the 3rd one I have gotten and it has no other problems as far as I can tell.
Tl;dr ver: Do screen protectors affect touch screen sensitivity?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
As distance increases the capacitance effectively decreases, yes. So the thicker the material layers are between your fingertip and the underlying sensor the less responsive (or less sensitive) the sensing becomes. This correlation occurs on a logarithmic scale and most devices I've looked at spec out at about 6mm - where 6mm of material effectively inhibits sensing completely. Most phone screens that's I've been able to investigate have about 0.6mm to 0.8mm of material already. I don't know what the thickness of the typical protector sheets are but even if yours is 1mm thick (which would be very thick actually!) it shouldn't effect touch registrations by very much. A little bit yes, but I guess it wouldn't be noticeable in practice.
Of course the easy way to find out is to turn on the touch indicators if your phone/kernel support it and try it both with and without the protector in place.
One way to increase touch sensitivity with your device is to increase your iron intake. Iron tablets are cheap and good for you. Make SURE you follow any dosage instructions on the label as iron is one of those minerals which can cause problems if you over dose yourself.
Bifurcator said:
As distance increases the capacitance effectively decreases, yes. So the thicker the material layers are between your fingertip and the underlying sensor the less responsive (or less sensitive) the sensing becomes. This correlation occurs on a logarithmic scale and most devices I've looked at spec out at about 6mm - where 6mm of material effectively inhibits sensing completely. Most phone screens that's I've been able to investigate have about 0.6mm to 0.8mm of material already. I don't know what the thickness of the typical protector sheets are but even if your is 1mm thick (which would be very thick actually!) it shouldn't effect touch registrations by very much. A little bit yes, but I guess it wouldn't be noticeable in practice.
Of course the easy way to find out is to turn on the touch indicators if your phone/kernel support it and try it both with and without the protector in place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like a pretty good amount of knowledge you have on screen protectors. Although, I wonder if it is also a possibility that the screen itself is flawed. I often find myself testing the touch screen with multi touch apps and I can never see any point where the screen will not register a touch. It also doesn't seem to be software based either it occurred on stock as well as CM10.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
I of course wouldn't know if your sensor was defective or not. But the design is extremely simple and the way they work would imply that if it worked in one area of the screen it will work across the entire screen given that the relative dielectric constant is even throughout the material volume. And if it wasn't you would likely see it as thousands of micro-bubbles, cracks, or other aberrations.
Also keep in mind that temperature and humidity have affect as well.
Bifurcator said:
I of course wouldn't know if your sensor was defective or not. But the design is extremely simple and the way they work would imply that if it worked in one area of the screen it will work across the entire screen given that the relative dielectric constant is even throughout the material volume. And if it wasn't you would likely see it as thousands of micro-bubbles, cracks, or other aberrations.
Also keep in mind that temperature and humidity have affect as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the explanations. Looks like I'll spend a few days experimenting with and without a a screen protector in order to deduct if the screen protector is at fault or if it is a defect within the product.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
MidnightXZ said:
Thanks for the explanations. Looks like I'll spend a few days experimenting with and without a a screen protector in order to deduct if the screen protector is at fault or if it is a defect within the product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NP, you're welcome. And take some iron tablets!
Bifurcator said:
NP, you're welcome. And take some iron tablets!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iron tablets? Do they increase my ability to interact with a capacitive touch screen or something? xD
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
MidnightXZ said:
Iron tablets? Do they increase my ability to interact with a capacitive touch screen or something? xD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep! The difference between a person with an iron deficiency and someone with a goodly amount can be enormous. In typical variations (say a poor iron intake in the diet compounded by a blood donation or menstruation as opposed to a person eating right and supplementing) can be over two times in terms of touch sensitivity.
If there's zero iron in your blood (besides being in danger of immediate death from organ failure.. ) your touch screen will not be able to detect you at all. The iron in an individual's blood creates strings of capacitors between every epidermal surface of the body. When someone creates a capacitance by touching (or actually even moving into proximity) of the sensor's conductor it creates a capacitance (essentially coupling to ground) by adding a second capacitance (you) in parallel to the sensor's capacitance. When such a ground is introduced the charge-time (frequency) of the sensor slows way down and a "touch" is registered. This is the basic premiss (in brief!) behind Capacitive Touch Sensing (CTS). There's other things going on as well depending on the type of touch screen but almost all of them (found in cell phones) depend on this basic principal.
Fun facts aye? LOL
Bifurcator said:
Yep! The difference between a person with an iron deficiency and someone with a goodly amount can be enormous. In typical variations (say a poor iron intake in the diet compounded by a blood donation or menstruation as opposed to a person eating right and supplementing) can be over two times in terms of touch sensitivity.
If there's zero iron in your blood (besides being in danger of immediate death from organ failure.. ) your touch screen will not be able to detect you at all. The iron in an individual's blood creates strings of capacitors between every epidermal surface of the body. When someone creates a capacitance by touching (or actually even moving into proximity) of the sensor's conductor it creates a capacitance (essentially coupling to ground) by adding a second capacitance (you) in parallel to the sensor's capacitance. This is the basic premiss (in brief!) behind Capacitive Touch Sensing (CTS). There's other things going on as well depending on the type of touch screen but almost all of them (found in cell phones) depend on this basic principal.
Fun facts aye? LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very fun indeed. xD
I had problems with 2 different screen films. One was a iPad one trimmed down to fit the other a nexus 7 one ordered online. Both seemed OK for one or two touches but lost all when I tried some games, like bad piggies and plants vs zombies. Had to take them off .
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Yeah, it certainly is possible. It sounds like the nexus 7's sensor may be a bit on the weak side just from reading here.
<shrug>
Bifurcator said:
Yeah, it certainly is possible. It sounds like the nexus 7's sensor may be a bit on the weak side just from reading here.
<shrug>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first Nexus 7 had no problems with an anti glare screen protector although it did have screen lift albeit, that screen protector was designed for it. 2nd was replaced within 5 minutes if purchasing. 3rd and current one seem to have intermittent touch issues when swiping. Although I have yet to determine if the cause is the screen protector or the device itself.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Any progress?
I think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the screen protector. But there are many kinds of touch screens and if the Nexus7 just happens to be using some hybrid that needs pressure then it's certainly possible.
Think of CTS screens (almost) as proximity sensors. They can actually sense (you) from around a foot away quite easily. As the distance decreases the "signal strength" increases. If we apply an arbitrary numerical value to that signal strength it /might/ look something like:
9 inches - 0.01
8 inches - 0.02
7 inches - 0.02
6 inches - 0.03
5 inches - 0.04
4 inches - 0.05
3 inches - 0.07
2 inches - 0.10
1 inches - 0.20
0.1 inches - 1.00
0.001 inches - 2.00
0" full contact - 10.00
But typically the software algorithms which determine whether a touch event has occurred or not imply a threshold value of (again arbitrary for the sake of example), 9.00. The dielectric properties of "the" plastics of interest for protectors and screens have been thoroughly examined and established AFAIK. They do disperse the electrical force somewhat via factors such as air-space between the protector layer and the screen, whatever insulating impurities may be present in the protector material, the material's own molecular structure, and etc. The amount of electrical field dispersion or distortion that occurs through the material is a function of the materials thickness in the case of the materials commonly being used. Maybe you can imagine looking at a flashlight through murky/milky water where the closer you get the stronger the signal and the more clarity (of the source) can be distinguished. Where this "strength/clarity" begins to become a problem for software "touch" detection is usually around 5mm or 6mm (of commonly used material) between your fingertip and the sensor. If different materials are used this distance changes and can change radically. In keeping with my photovoltaic example, if the material in question could act like a tight bundle of optical fibers (only of course conducting electricity and not light) then the "protective" material could be meters thick without being detrimental to the registration of a touch event.
This is why i think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the protector... But everything factor's in. Body weight, blood iron content, protector material impurities, humidity (RH), temperature, skin moisture, variations in the Earth's electrical field from area to area and over time, material thickness, the software algorithm's threshold values, and so on. If they all come together in just the wrong way you could experience the touch registration intermittence you are describing - for sure. And with millions and millions of sensor screens being manufactured it could also be faulty connections there too but /that/ would be my very last guess as they really are ultra-simply constructed. If it's charging at all it should (famous last words) work equally across the entire surface area.
---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------
Have a look at that poll thread tho:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=9771
416 people report screen separation and almost 130 people report touch-screen malfunction.
That's pretty radical! Maybe it's time to ditch Nexus7 all together?
Bifurcator said:
Any progress?
I think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the screen protector. But there are many kinds of touch screens and if the Nexus7 just happens to be using some hybrid that needs pressure then it's certainly possible.
Think of CTS screens (almost) as proximity sensors. They can actually sense (you) from around a foot away quite easily. As the distance decreases the "signal strength" increases. If we apply an arbitrary numerical value to that signal strength it /might/ look something like:
9 inches - 0.01
8 inches - 0.02
7 inches - 0.02
6 inches - 0.03
5 inches - 0.04
4 inches - 0.05
3 inches - 0.07
2 inches - 0.10
1 inches - 0.20
0.1 inches - 1.00
0.001 inches - 2.00
0" full contact - 10.00
But typically the software algorithms which determine whether a touch event has occurred or not imply a threshold value of (again arbitrary for the sake of example), 9.00. The dielectric properties of "the" plastics of interest for protectors and screens have been thoroughly examined and established AFAIK. They do disperse the electrical force somewhat via factors such as air-space between the protector layer and the screen, whatever insulating impurities may be present in the protector material, the material's own molecular structure, and etc. The amount of electrical field dispersion or distortion that occurs through the material is a function of the materials thickness in the case of the materials commonly being used. Maybe you can imagine looking at a flashlight through murky/milky water where the closer you get the stronger the signal and the more clarity (of the source) can be distinguished. Where this "strength/clarity" begins to become a problem for software "touch" detection is usually around 5mm or 6mm (of commonly used material) between your fingertip and the sensor. If different materials are used this distance changes and can change radically. In keeping with my photovoltaic example, if the material in question could act like a tight bundle of optical fibers (only of course conducting electricity and not light) then the "protective" material could be meters thick without being detrimental to the registration of a touch event.
This is why i think it's almost impossible for it to be the fault of the protector... But everything factor's in. Body weight, blood iron content, protector material impurities, humidity (RH), temperature, skin moisture, variations in the Earth's electrical field from area to area and over time, material thickness, the software algorithm's threshold values, and so on. If they all come together in just the wrong way you could experience the touch registration intermittence you are describing - for sure. And with millions and millions of sensor screens being manufactured it could also be faulty connections there too but /that/ would be my very last guess as they really are ultra-simply constructed. If it's charging at all it should (famous last words) work equally across the entire surface area.
---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------
Have a look at that poll thread tho:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=9771
416 people report screen separation and almost 130 people report touch-screen malfunction.
That's pretty radical! Maybe it's time to ditch Nexus7 all together?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's been no change in screen sensitivity since I removed the screen protector. I think what you're saying may be correct. I have also noticed intermittent multi touch issues present within certain actions such as pinch to zoom where the touch of the secondary finger is constantly flickering in the sense that the connection between the finger and the touch screen is rapidly switching between being detected and not being detected by the device.
I think at this point, it is almost guaranteed that the screen protector was not the cause of the screen sensitivity issues and that it is a defect within the device itself. I think this is quite unfortunate as I was finally able to get a unit without no sign of screen lift.
Maybe it is time to ditch the nexus 7, however I will not be a part of it as I still think that the nexus 7 is a great device which has many uses along with the added benefit of being a nexus device. Besides, I'm still within my 30 day exchange, so this just gives me a reason to return it and grab the 32GB version.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Kewl,
Yeah, I'm a total n00b and dunno anything about Nexus7 (nor enough other phones to compare it to anything) so if you think it's worth keeping by all means you should.
BTW, did try popping an iron tab or two?
Bifurcator said:
Yep! The difference between a person with an iron deficiency and someone with a goodly amount can be enormous. In typical variations (say a poor iron intake in the diet compounded by a blood donation or menstruation as opposed to a person eating right and supplementing) can be over two times in terms of touch sensitivity.
If there's zero iron in your blood (besides being in danger of immediate death from organ failure.. ) your touch screen will not be able to detect you at all. The iron in an individual's blood creates strings of capacitors between every epidermal surface of the body. When someone creates a capacitance by touching (or actually even moving into proximity) of the sensor's conductor it creates a capacitance (essentially coupling to ground) by adding a second capacitance (you) in parallel to the sensor's capacitance. When such a ground is introduced the charge-time (frequency) of the sensor slows way down and a "touch" is registered. This is the basic premiss (in brief!) behind Capacitive Touch Sensing (CTS). There's other things going on as well depending on the type of touch screen but almost all of them (found in cell phones) depend on this basic principal.
Fun facts aye? LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bifurcator said:
I of course wouldn't know if your sensor was defective or not. But the design is extremely simple and the way they work would imply that if it worked in one area of the screen it will work across the entire screen given that the relative dielectric constant is even throughout the material volume. And if it wasn't you would likely see it as thousands of micro-bubbles, cracks, or other aberrations.
Also keep in mind that temperature and humidity have affect as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is this guy? Stephen Hawking?
I need a bloody iron tab after reading all that !!
Bifurcator said:
Kewl,
Yeah, I'm a total n00b and dunno anything about Nexus7 (nor enough other phones to compare it to anything) so if you think it's worth keeping by all means you should.
BTW, did try popping an iron tab or two?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope! The problem was isolated only to my Nexus 7 and not my HTC Amaze, so I didn't bother.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Wilks3y said:
Who is this guy? Stephen Hawking?
I need a bloody iron tab after reading all that !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe...
MidnightXZ said:
There's been no change in screen sensitivity since I removed the screen protector. I think what you're saying may be correct. I have also noticed intermittent multi touch issues present within certain actions such as pinch to zoom where the touch of the secondary finger is constantly flickering in the sense that the connection between the finger and the touch screen is rapidly switching between being detected and not being detected by the device.
I think at this point, it is almost guaranteed that the screen protector was not the cause of the screen sensitivity issues and that it is a defect within the device itself. I think this is quite unfortunate as I was finally able to get a unit without no sign of screen lift.
Maybe it is time to ditch the nexus 7, however I will not be a part of it as I still think that the nexus 7 is a great device which has many uses along with the added benefit of being a nexus device. Besides, I'm still within my 30 day exchange, so this just gives me a reason to return it and grab the 32GB version.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been using Huawei G700 for 9 months now but the problem, similar to what you described befell this phone. Sometimes it lags, inaccurate point selections and cant pull the notification bar to the bottom, unless I "hurl" it down. Could it be the screen (no any visible damage) or some internal functioning. I had to reformat it, no solution yet.
I found out what my issue was with the unresponsiveness on my nexus 7 (2013). What it was, was that I didn't remove the protective film from the anti-glare screen protector. I realized it when i was completely going to eliminate the screen protector and see if by doing so my screen would responded better but realized what I was removing was the protective film and not the anti-glare screen protector. My screen is very responsive now.
Related
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Nocturnal310 said:
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Xperia is more sensitive than an iPhone. Granted I did some tweaking, but still.
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
enigma1nz said:
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No? So, you have spied on me using my phone and know that it is not more sensitive? Pffft...
iphone rockz!
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be sorry, because you are wrong. Do your research better and come back to apologize.
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Do capacititve screens have a separation issue like some of the HTC resistive screens have?
Where the layers of a resistive screen including the digitizer start to separate causing a rectangular shape in the center that looks like oil on water.
Has happened to me and many others where the screen eventually has a complete failure.
I do know that the capacitive screens on the iPhone are prone to breakage due to the fact that it has a glass surface.
The resistive screen of the Diamond is less prone to breakage because it has a plastic type film on the surface.
Btw, my screen is pretty sensitive, whether using the stylus or touch.
You can tweak your resistiv screen by allign screen.
If you dont press the screen and move little circles between the arrow you can make screen more sensitiv
Sorry for my english cause i am german
Black93300ZX said:
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting... I didn't know that
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
darren shan said:
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys there is a cab called iTouch for blackstone and it tweaks the resistance to ultra-sensitive, works like a charm. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469865 , try it.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
Not necessarily true. The Nexus One has a capacitive screen and also has the dots...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Multi-touch
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Sorry to add fuel to fire but a capacitive screen will always be more sensitive (speaking purely about the physics of it) than a resisitive screen.
Why?
Capacitive screens rely on charge and comparative charge of two bodies. In some instances, capacitive screens can work without the finger actually touching the screen.
Resistive screens rely on a minute deflection from contact to connect two conductive layers. You can touch a resistive screen lightly enough to not result in a UI interaction. Resisitve screens can be tweaked to work at a very high sensitivity but still not as sensitive as a capacitive screen.
Go ahead, compare two phones with opposing screen tech side by side. I thought nothing could be as responsive as my Topaz till I bought a Nexus, then Desire (which have other issues btw! )
Sorry but thats the blunt science behind it. Bear in mind the perception of responsiveness to touch can very well depend on the quality/smoothness of the software written or the user interface.
Source:
HTC Touch Diamond 2 vs. HTC Desire
Source 2:
My university degree.
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
eulalie said:
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ozy944 said:
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
eulalie said:
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A dilemma huh? To be brutally honest, most budget oriented tablets are simply that: budget oriented. A lot of them (im trying not to generalize) and Ive tried a fair few are poorly implemented tablets and more trouble than they are worth. Slow, laggy, bad battery life. You'll have enough issues to simply forget the lack of multi touch.
If I was after a tablet, hard as it may be, Id wait till some big players launch a proper device...that'll lead to better adoption and less half baked tablets that are more tech demo than retail product.
Bear in mind the lack of android market access on almost all of these tablets. Due to their generic nature, dev work is also a no-go. Everybody and their friends and family have a device out with a costomised, baked os that its not even funny!
Id check out the galaxy tablet from samsung or wait for it to make some waves and bring forth better implemented copycat products
yodafone said:
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC HD2 is a capacitive touch-screen phone, was mass marketed on WM and has the dots (not horizontally but diagonally). Dont talk about it if you dont know about it.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/htc-hd2-first-windows-mobile-with-capacitive-touchscreen-49303837/
Hi
Anyone else having problems with the touchscreen taking maybe 5 presses for you to be able to select for example a menu option? This is really starting to bug me now. So much so I'm thinking of sending it back to t-mobile and cancelling the contract.
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers
Andy
Try an Calibration in the settings menu.
There isn't a screen calibration setting on this handset. I wasn't aware we had to do this on these capacitive screens.
My X10 doesn't work like that at all. How hard do you press? Does it work in one press if you press harder?
Press harder on as capacitive display?
You'll have to place your second hand on the metal frame and it'll work perfect.
Dry hands are also not good.
boo6 said:
Press harder on as capacitive display?
You'll have to place your second hand on the metal frame and it'll work perfect.
Dry hands are also not good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. If you press harder a larger area of your finger touches the display. I.E. more for the digitizer to sense.
boo6 said:
Dry hands are also not good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely noticing this. I'm not exactly the type of guy to regularly moisturize my hands. I work in construction, and this capacitive screen absolutely sucks for me. I've been using resistive screens beautifully up to this point. I find I often have to lick my thumb regularly to get the screen to work properly. I have a ton of trouble unlocking the phone, since the screen thinks I've lifted my thumb halfway through the pattern. Using swype is a nightmare for this reason as well.
There are resistive multitouch screens on laptops and desktops now. I hope we see a swing back to resistive screens on smartphones.
I'm experiencing this problem aswell an i'm pretty much sure this is all software related, you can actually see the interface reacting to the press but it seems like the device never executes the action forcing you to press multiple times, annoying as hell yes! I sincerely hope SE fixes this in the next update.
Has anyone had any problems with accuracy? In some apps the touch registers like 5mm below where I actually touch.
I think the stock screen protector hinders the touch sensitivity quite a bit. Try getting a thinner screen protector. There is a thread talking about how sensitivity and accuracy improved when they took theirs off.
needmoregigs said:
I think the stock screen protector hinders the touch sensitivity quite a bit. Try getting a thinner screen protector. There is a thread talking about how sensitivity and accuracy improved when they took theirs off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip but I already have an uberthin protector. That brand has worked very well on all other capacitive displays I've had. I'm suspecting a software bug rather than a hardware issue.
needmoregigs said:
I think the stock screen protector hinders the touch sensitivity quite a bit. Try getting a thinner screen protector. There is a thread talking about how sensitivity and accuracy improved when they took theirs off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I jammed my X10 in a sports armband for Ipod touch, it has a very thick plastic window and it did not affect the sensetivity a bit so i dont think the thin stock protector will do any difference. Just my opinion
ddewbofh said:
Has anyone had any problems with accuracy? In some apps the touch registers like 5mm below where I actually touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed that on the dialer application.
Sometimes, while I am on Recent Calls section, I press the green telephone next to a contact and it calls the one right below it!
Haven't ever noticed any sort of oddness like that... and I have a thick screen protector on top of the stock one.
Occasionally I'll type a letter wrong, but that seems to have improved with the update from two weeks ago.
hey guys
ive noticed that a thew of you are having issues with the touchscreen,particularly when running recent roms
now ive been having a look and have come up with an idea to resolve this problem,first we have to understand the screen,our lovely HD2 has a multi touch TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors 480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches WVGA
now about multi touch capacitive touch screen from wiki as bellow:
Multi-touch has been implemented in several different ways, depending on the size and type of interface. Both touchtables and touch walls project an image through acrylic or glass, and then back-light the image with LEDs. When a finger or an object touches the surface, causing the light to scatter, the reflection is caught with sensors or cameras that send the data to software which dictates response to the touch, depending on the type of reflection measured. Touch surfaces can also be made pressure-sensitive by the addition of a pressure-sensitive coating that flexes differently depending on how firmly it is pressed, altering the reflection.[2] Handheld technologies use a panel that carries an electrical charge. When a finger touches the screen, the touch disrupts the panel's electrical field. The disruption is registered and sent to the software, which then initiates a response to the gesture.
if you get what that means then we'll move on.Now then most of the builds weve been using are designed for either AMOLED/LCD capacitive touchscreen at16M colors so in basic terms when we touch our screens it sends a signal to the software saying youve touched only the software thinks were all using 16M capacitive touchscreen when in actual fact were only using 65k capacitive touchscreens thus eventually causing lack of responce,so whats the solution i hear you cry,well we have to look at our beloved friend the evo 4G wich has the same screen TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors so we have use the files/script/value or whatever devs use to controll the display and touchscreen from the 4g and use them in HD2 android builds this way we shouldnt be able to wear out our touchscreens in android builds,something for Devs to do and we already have Evo ports,probably explains why no one or heard of has had this problem when running Evo builds.Does that Make sence
The LCD screen and the digitizer are 2 separate components. The touchscreen itself has nothing to do with colors.
Seriously when can we just stop the bullshiting about stuff YOU clearly dont understand ?
The last few weeks there has been a huge spike in stupid topics from ppl trying to convince other ppl to also be stupid.
shuntje said:
Seriously when can we just stop the bullshiting about stuff clearly dont understand ?
The last few weeks there has been a huge spike in stupid topics from ppl trying to convince other ppl to also be stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best. Post. Ever.
IphoneKiller125 said:
hey guys
ive noticed that a thew of you are having issues with the touchscreen,particularly when running recent roms
now ive been having a look and have come up with an idea to resolve this problem,first we have to understand the screen,our lovely HD2 has a multi touch TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors 480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches WVGA
now about multi touch capacitive touch screen from wiki as bellow:
Multi-touch has been implemented in several different ways, depending on the size and type of interface. Both touchtables and touch walls project an image through acrylic or glass, and then back-light the image with LEDs. When a finger or an object touches the surface, causing the light to scatter, the reflection is caught with sensors or cameras that send the data to software which dictates response to the touch, depending on the type of reflection measured. Touch surfaces can also be made pressure-sensitive by the addition of a pressure-sensitive coating that flexes differently depending on how firmly it is pressed, altering the reflection.[2] Handheld technologies use a panel that carries an electrical charge. When a finger touches the screen, the touch disrupts the panel's electrical field. The disruption is registered and sent to the software, which then initiates a response to the gesture.
if you get what that means then we'll move on.Now then most of the builds weve been using are designed for either AMOLED/LCD capacitive touchscreen at16M colors so in basic terms when we touch our screens it sends a signal to the software saying youve touched only the software thinks were all using 16M capacitive touchscreen when in actual fact were only using 65k capacitive touchscreens thus eventually causing lack of responce,so whats the solution i hear you cry,well we have to look at our beloved friend the evo 4G wich has the same screen TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors so we have use the files/script/value or whatever devs use to controll the display and touchscreen from the 4g and use them in HD2 android builds this way we shouldnt be able to wear out our touchscreens in android builds,something for Devs to do and we already have Evo ports,probably explains why no one or heard of has had this problem when running Evo builds.Does that Make sence
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol worst research ever
I'm wondering what was your reasearch methode ?
Becouse all you found was information about the screen and nothing about the actual module for the toutch screen.
shuntje said:
I'm wondering what was your reasearch methode ?
Becouse all you found was information about the screen and nothing about the actual module for the toutch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i assumed you guys knew that the HD2 has an LCM module wich is shown here
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
it combines the digitizer,backlight,Lcd so it conects to the main board from the same port for easer installation.Now the point im trying to get across is that weve been using builds that use AMOLED,AMOLED displays have an integrated touch function.AMOLED screens that htc use are made by Samsung wich has placed a touch-sensor (on-cell) over the display. The thickness of the touch sensor is very thin and this allows the screen to provide better images and to have great visibility even in direct sunlight and are very responsive to touch,Now becouse we havnt got these screens the builds,in particular with desire builds it is making our screens work overtime and this can create dead spots or areas of the screen that do not respond accurately to touch wich can be caused by a conflict in the software/firmware or it could be that the LCM causes problems in the software wich then makes it unresponsive http://www.htcphones.net/htc-hd2-problems-with-touchscreen/ or then again it could be this http://wmpoweruser.com/strange-htc-hd2-touch-screen-behaviour-is-your-device-affected/ there are several possibillty,unfortunently each phone is unique
I have trouble deciding whether you are a troll or a retard.
Neither of those possibilities are very attractive though.
The only problem HD2 has with multitouch is that It cant handle two inputs in the same vertical line. you will see if you test it with Multitouch visibility test. Also in air hockey 2 player mode you will see the same effect. If the two points are in the same vertical point it will jump.
Builds and kernels are indeed different... a build for an amoled phone can work with no problem on our hd2
It doesn't matter; we have our own special panel and ts drivers in the kernel. (board-htcleo-ts.c and board-htcleo-panel.c)
Damm Straight Best Post Ever!
This is simply THE most hilarious post I've read on here!!
I've never seen a post with such bull****. Clearly the OP hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
I am lost for words
Now that we have a THANKS button, we also need a BULL**** button, everyone with a brain who reads this thread would be frantically clicking away on it!!
..........
IphoneKiller125 said:
Well i assumed you guys knew that the HD2 has an LCM module wich is shown here
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
it combines the digitizer,backlight,Lcd so it conects to the main board from the same port for easer installation.Now the point im trying to get across is that weve been using builds that use AMOLED,AMOLED displays have an integrated touch function.AMOLED screens that htc use are made by Samsung wich has placed a touch-sensor (on-cell) over the display. The thickness of the touch sensor is very thin and this allows the screen to provide better images and to have great visibility even in direct sunlight and are very responsive to touch,Now becouse we havnt got these screens the builds,in particular with desire builds it is making our screens work overtime and this can create dead spots or areas of the screen that do not respond accurately to touch wich can be caused by a conflict in the software/firmware or it could be that the LCM causes problems in the software wich then makes it unresponsive http://www.htcphones.net/htc-hd2-problems-with-touchscreen/ or then again it could be this http://wmpoweruser.com/strange-htc-hd2-touch-screen-behaviour-is-your-device-affected/ there are several possibillty,unfortunently each phone is unique
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude ok break down of how i undertand the phone works between kernel and hardware
The kernel accesses a chip with a unified and commonly accepted standard of IO. Then the hardware specific chip (the Toutch screen controller or what not) makes this into readeble data and vise versa. This way there is NO WAY IN HELL it can break the actual hardware. If your screen is breaking down bad luck i had a HD2 with a defect TS in the first week. A mate of mine had one within the first ****ing day. Its random stop feeding yourself with bull**** and go back to the tinfoil hat forums.
deffo has the lol factor
shuntje said:
Dude ok break down of how i undertand the phone works between kernal and hardware
The kernal accesses a chip with a unified and commonly accepted standard of IO. Then the hardware specific chip (the Toutch screen controller or what not) makes this into readeble data and vise versa. This way there is NO WAY IN HELL it can break the actual hardware. If your screen is breaking down bad luck i had a HD2 with a defect TS in the first week. A mate of mine had one within the first ****ing day. Its random stop feeding yourself with bull**** and go back to the tinfoil hat forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually since the kernel (please, not kernal) interacts with the hardware directly it can damage it permanently. For example, supply too much voltage to the cpu and you fry it, use the touchscreen with incorrect calibration settings for extended periods of time and you can also damage it. However, there are no cases of the Leo Android TS driver breaking touchscreens.
Where are the naked pics? Someone said there were naked pics in this thread.
OHHHHH another "whine, Android, whine, messed up, whine, my touchscreen, whine" thread.
...dissappointingly clicks the back button
I have some cellophane I stole from a cigarette packet. I was wondering, as the size is similar to my HD2, are they compatible models? I was thinking of replacing the touchscreen with it.
Sorry to take this thread in a new direction but it seemed the appropriate place to ask.
harpss1ngh said:
Now that we have a THANKS button, we also need a BULL**** button...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Made my day
Hi friends, I have a Samsung Galaxy Note since 2012 and I used to love it. It was fast, big, it had a good camera, an almost perfect screen (The first HD Super Amoled screen) and the amazing S-Pen. It went from 2.3.5 Gingerbread to Android 5.0 Lollipop (Unbelievable). But yes, after 3 years of heavy using it, it started to show problems. The camera stopped working fine, It didn't focused anymore, the S-Pen started malfunctioning (moving elements of the screen without even touching it), the USB board went bad (including the microphone and usb jack) and the screen has burn-in issues. Then I assumed that was time to change it. Now I'm looking for the new flagship, the Note 4 (which I'm going to buy in January). So I read almost every review of it, every video and photos taken with his camera and everyone says that the phone is almost perfect (I mean almost because the 80% complains about the Touchwiz Layer in the OS, which I love and I don't have any problem to live with it) and doesn't have any flags. So I came here to ask to the people who already owned it and have some daily experience with the device what are their thoughts, problems and good things about it. Also some little things that I'm a bit worried:
-How good the camera is?
-It's early to ask because no one had this phone for more than 4 months, but does anyone experienced screen burn in? And how looks the screen in direct sunlight?
-What parts of the phone are metal? Only the frame or the whole body? And how feels it? It's good to handle or still feels like cheap plastic?
-What about the phone duration? Anyone had scratches on it? How bad they're? Please if you can add some photos of them, because the phone isn't even released here in Argentina and they arent any covers or protectors for the it so I need to stay for around 3 months with a "nude" phone.
Sorry for too many questions, but I really need to know how good this phone is because the price is really high. Thanks!
galaxynote2 said:
Hi friends, I have a Samsung Galaxy Note since 2012 and I used to love it. It was fast, big, it had a good camera, an almost perfect screen (The first HD Super Amoled screen) and the amazing S-Pen. It went from 2.3.5 Gingerbread to Android 5.0 Lollipop (Unbelievable). But yes, after 3 years of heavy using it, it started to show problems. The camera stopped working fine, It didn't focused anymore, the S-Pen started malfunctioning (moving elements of the screen without even touching it), the USB board went bad (including the microphone and usb jack) and the screen has burn-in issues. Then I assumed that was time to change it. Now I'm looking for the new flagship, the Note 4 (which I'm going to buy in January). So I read almost every review of it, every video and photos taken with his camera and everyone says that the phone is almost perfect (I mean almost because the 80% complains about the Touchwiz Layer in the OS, which I love and I don't have any problem to live with it) and doesn't have any flags. So I came here to ask to the people who already owned it and have some daily experience with the device what are their thoughts, problems and good things about it. Also some little things that I'm a bit worried:
-How good the camera is?
-It's early to ask because no one had this phone for more than 4 months, but does anyone experienced screen burn in? And how looks the screen in direct sunlight?
-What parts of the phone are metal? Only the frame or the whole body? And how feels it? It's good to handle or still feels like cheap plastic?
-What about the phone duration? Anyone had scratches on it? How bad they're? Please if you can add some photos of them, because the phone isn't even released here in Argentina and they arent any covers or protectors for the it so I need to stay for around 3 months with a "nude" phone.
Sorry for too many questions, but I really need to know how good this phone is because the price is really high. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- The Camera is fine, in my opinion, but that probably depends on the persons preference and use.
- I can't say I have experienced any burn-in, but the screen is okay in direct sunlight; however, if you angle your phone to inspect the glass in sunlight with the screen on, I notice a reddish tint all over with that blurryness you would experience if you were in a well-lit city at night without glasses when you need them haha :silly:
- Admittedly, the phone feels a tad delicate, but that's what cases are for! I have been using an s-view case without a screen protector since purchase and it still looks like-new! If you aren't going to use a case for your phone though, a full metal body might be better.
- With my s-view case and no screen protector, my phone has no scratches - that I can see. Unless you carry your phone in the same pocket as your keys and other objects, you will be fine :3 Unless you carry sand in your pocket Phone duration seems to vary among different models though. I am using a 910V (?) and I get anywhere from 4~6 hours of Screen-on time. The stand-by time is the best part though imo. I can usually go 2 days or more without a charge.
edit:
The red tint usually happens if I angle the phone on purpose I leave my brightness settings on automatic and the screen is always clear (as it would be at nighttime) with the sun directly over me.
JippleStar said:
- The Camera is fine, in my opinion, but that probably depends on the persons preference and use.
- I can't say I have experienced any burn-in, but the screen is okay in direct sunlight; however, if you angle your phone to inspect the glass in sunlight with the screen on, I notice a reddish tint all over with that blurryness you would experience if you were in a well-lit city at night without glasses when you need them haha :silly:
- Admittedly, the phone feels a tad delicate, but that's what cases are for! I have been using an s-view case without a screen protector since purchase and it still looks like-new! If you aren't going to use a case for your phone though, a full metal body might be better.
- With my s-view case and no screen protector, my phone has no scratches - that I can see. Unless you carry your phone in the same pocket as your keys and other objects, you will be fine :3 Unless you carry sand in your pocket Phone duration seems to vary among different models though. I am using a 910V (?) and I get anywhere from 4~6 hours of Screen-on time. The stand-by time is the best part though imo. I can usually go 2 days or more without a charge.
edit:
The red tint usually happens if I angle the phone on purpose I leave my brightness settings on automatic and the screen is always clear (as it would be at nighttime) with the sun directly over me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the fast answer! And how do you feel using this phone? Do you have any complain or something that didn't liked about it?
galaxynote2 said:
Thanks for the fast answer! And how do you feel using this phone? Do you have any complain or something that didn't liked about it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I had any complaints, the s-pen would convince me that it's worth it so I'm pretty biased xD
The phone is just fine. But u should buy the qualcom varients as this is my 3rd note 4. Its qualcom but backside 4g+ is written. Its true if u see the display from an extreme angle you will see red tint but its normal for me cause almost nobody watch the display from 170 or 180 degree. Qualcom chipset has better ram and bettery management over exinos one. And the phone really looks premium. Not only looks but u will feel it when you touch it. No problem seeing the display at direct sunlight. And it does not matter if they use gorilla glass 10 it will have scratch if you do not use screen protector or flip cover. So be careful.
Does your screen have any sign of burn in ? If not what is your precautionary routine do prevent them. Thanks.
rch.aj34 said:
Does your screen have any sign of burn in ? If not what is your precautionary routine do prevent them. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phones with Gorilla glass protection have that simptoms and only solution is stick panzer glass protection on screen . Otherwise your gorilla glass atoms get weaker thro to many uses and touches and will brake on first shock that usually would survive when was new.
android freek said:
Phones with Gorilla glass protection have that simptoms and only solution is stick panzer glass protection on screen . Otherwise your gorilla glass atoms get weaker thro to many uses and touches and will brake on first shock that usually would survive when was new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have any burn in on any of my screen (Note 3 then Note 4). But I have always had a glass screen protection on so maybe that helps.
Screen burn only happens when you have a static image on your AMOLED display for a very long period of time, which causes the pixels on your AMOLED display to burn as the image has been on your display for a long period of times. Try running this app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.codefortravel.amoled_screen_burn_in&hl=en) for a while on your device, it may help repair some of the burn in damage. As it will force your device to use every RGB pixel on your display.
No visible burn in yet.
Owned my phone since November 2014 and never really took any major precautions.
If an application allowed fullscreen mode, I used it.
I always adjusted the brightness in a way that allowed me to read the screen clearly, but this is something I do on any phone regardless of screen type.
I also have on average 4 hours of SoT a day.
Nuu~ said:
No visible burn in yet.
Owned my phone since November 2014 and never really took any major precautions.
If an application allowed fullscreen mode, I used it.
I always adjusted the brightness in a way that allowed me to read the screen clearly, but this is something I do on any phone regardless of screen type.
I also have on average 4 hours of SoT a day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same precautions here ! thanks for eliminating my OCD !
I am glad that these burn in reports I have only read here and there, but noticed/experienced myself, after owning many AMOLED units, Note 2, S4, Note3 and now Note 4.
No burn in after 1yr and 6 month (yest)