Related
I wondered if any techies thought it would be likely that Windows Phone 7, Windows Mobile 6.5, Samsung Bada, Nokia MeeGo or other mobile OS's would be ported to the Tab. I think Ubuntu Netbook Edition is certainly likely.
Oh, asking "why would you want to replace Android?!" is a different topic.
Thanks
I'm grown to like Android so much as to do things the other way around (try to fit android to any number of other devices), but I think the two most interesting (and perhaps obvious) choices would be MeeGo and ChromeOS.
Yeah, I would definitely be interested in ChromeOS or a netbook linux distro rather than another mobile OS. I bet that there will be plenty of people trying to get linux on it, because people always wanna run linux on everything
What would be PERFECT to my mind, would be being able to dual boot.
Android for when its a phone, and a micro-desktop OS for when I wanna work on it. Stick it on the keyboard dock and add a bluetooth mouse and that'd be sexy. Hell, as long as you saved any documents to SD card you'd still be able to pull them up in droid.
Now all we need is some seriously smart people to make it happen
I don't know why Bada is on that list as it is not really a smartphone os(it more akin to a higher end/smarter feature phone os), and I doubt it would translate well to the Galaxy Tab.
I kind of want to see it running the latest version of Windows CE or Embedded in a dual boot setup with Android. Or some version of Ubuntu(maybe in a newer Mint variant).
Windows Mobile 6.x would be the best alternate.
sentiere said:
Windows Mobile 6.x would be the best alternate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that just personal preference, or is there a specific feature you think would work well on the Tab ?
Windows 7 on Galaxy Tab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS4UOK-pyRg
But this is only a remote desktop.you can do it now with remote RDP or LotMeIn Ignition
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
I'd love to see WinMo 6.5 and some Linux Distro, but my pipedream would absolutely be Windows 98 - I know, lol98, but I would go absolutely crazy if I could run some Visual Novels on it without having to remote desktop.
mirrinigma said:
I'd love to see WinMo 6.5 and some Linux Distro, but my pipedream would absolutely be Windows 98 - I know, lol98, but I would go absolutely crazy if I could run some Visual Novels on it without having to remote desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's seriously unlikely that we'll see a windows desktop OS on the tab. Its the problem with closed-source code. It'd take very significant patching to get it to run on the Tab, and then you couldn't legally distribute the full OS. You could make a patcher/installer, but it would require anyone who wanted to use it to use full version of windows as an installer.
In all honesty, I wouldn't get your hopes up over installing any (significant) programs that don't come with a desktop OS anyway. Sure, theres no problems with bundled stuff, so you can expect office, email, browser, IM, minesweeper etc. But running anything more complex will start to bring up problems, first due to the lack of available resources (1ghz and 512 of ram is rather anemic) and secondly because its tricky to get things to run on unfamiliar architectures.
In theory, you have the chance to do some really cool stuff (some retro command and conquer on the tab... Or Baldurs Gate) but I wouldn't hold out hope.
But you never know.
Those Linux guys are CRAZY smart. A little win95/DOS emulation later, and maybe you could do whatever you want. *shrug*.
Edit -
Wasn't there someone who installed win95 on a nexus one ? You had to install it via dosbox and even then you could only get to it via remote desktop, but it did run. So maybe I'm being too negative. However, don't expect it to be an easy ride lol. Then again, it all depends on how many of these Samsung actually sell.
If they do (somehow) manage to get up to 10mil of these in circulation then there will be a massive dev community to try and make cool stuff for them.
Yeah, that's why I called it a pipe dream - unfortunately most of the visual novels I'd love to play are windows 98+ even if 95 got up. Everything else I'd want to do could be covered by WinMo (coreplayer is love) and Android (Galaxy native divx decoding <3)
IIRC the Samsung Galaxy S series has sold 5 million worldwide last time we heard - since it's essentially the same thing sans resolution I would expect some serious development stuff going on within a few months... I hope.
If I must, I will shell out for remote desktop software, but I'd really rather not if there's other options. Music on top of other stuff doesn't stream well enough through 3G
Windows Mobile 6.5.X is what I voted though.
Ubuntu 10.10 Netbook remix looks good for touch screen.
Anyone know if any Metro apps are being created specifically for the Metro UI in Windows 8?
Yes
yes, in visual studio beta 11 you can make metro appsfor windows 8 only
google is working on a version of chrome for metro as is mozilla with firefox. I'd say it's safe to say that you can expect an official facebook and twitter clients as well.
Look for developers that have cross platform support in the mobile world and it's probably safe to assume that most popular multi platform apps will get a metro app in the coming months.
Here's one I know for a fact that I know most of you won't care about; EnergyPro, an energy analysis tool for buildings (used a ton in the design part of the construction industry)
The next version will be available for Windows, Windows 8 (as a metro app), and Ipad. They are also looking into an android tablet port. How do I know this? I talked with one of the designers of the software last week at a seminar. They're looking to expand cross-platform more.
Funnily enough, they still have no interest in making an OSX app, because "pretty much everyone who has a Mac has some way of running windows software on it"
Good: Most functionality from x86 remain. Verge said no WMP in desktop, only in Metro. And no legacy apps, of course. Office RT Preview looks good (given that it's free), albeit you'll need a KB/mouse setup. Looks just like Win8 all-around.
Bad: No accelerometer?! Well, at least the Surface RT has it.
e.mote said:
Good: Most functionality from x86 remain. Verge said no WMP in desktop, only in Metro. And no legacy apps, of course. Office RT Preview looks good (given that it's free), albeit you'll need a KB/mouse setup. Looks just like Win8 all-around.
Bad: No accelerometer?! Well, at least the Surface RT has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a chance. That slim possibility of running cross-compiled desktop apps..... Maybe, just maybe.
So... desktop view works on RT, this is a go
Now I will really be buying the Surface, also you can put the Surface in 0 and 90 grades angles in the dock so it makes it even better.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Another brief tour of WinRT, this time going through Word 2013 Preview. But more noteworthy is that windowing function in desktop mode is still the same as ever (1:25 mark), ie you can move/resize/overlap windows to any degree.
The main takeway is that WinRT is basically same as Win8 x86 w/o the legacy apps, in exchange for a lower price and free Office. (I hope MS shrinks the footprint, and dumps WinSxS.) The second takeway is that despite all the Metro hubbub, if you want to get real work done, it still takes a mouse & keyboard.
Am hoping sideloading will be achieved quickly, and that 3rd-parties will support desktop mode with cross-compiled apps as phail pal said.
Oh yah and hoping MS goes ahead with that $199 Surface RT!
e.mote said:
Another brief tour of WinRT, this time going through Word 2013 Preview. But more noteworthy is that windowing function in desktop mode is still the same as ever (1:25 mark), ie you can move/resize/overlap windows to any degree.
The main takeway is that WinRT is basically same as Win8 x86 w/o the legacy apps, in exchange for a lower price and free Office. (I hope MS shrinks the footprint, and dumps WinSxS.) The second takeway is that despite all the Metro hubbub, if you want to get real work done, it still takes a mouse & keyboard.
Am hoping sideloading will be achieved quickly, and that 3rd-parties will support desktop mode with cross-compiled apps as phail pal said.
Oh yah and hoping MS goes ahead with that $199 Surface RT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My.. there it is! the desktop! and FILES! LOL. I like this, I wish I can be at USA when it goes out to make the line with others to buy it, but I will have to tell somebody to buy me one and send it to DR crap!..
There will be an accelerometer. That is a requirement of windows RT
I'm kind of surprised he wasted an opportunity with Windows RT in the desktop. There so many questions regarding metro performance and resource footprint that he could have addressed.
Some more looks at WinRT desktop (and tech stuff).
Storage & OS footprint: On this 32GB device, only 24GB is showing as available as a single C: drive, with 12GB of that used and 12GB remaining (2:02 mark). From this, I'm assuming the OS is stashed in a 8GB reserved partition, and the 12GB used is from Office and possible swap file. Total footprint: 20GB for WinRT + Office. On a 32GB device, that is a huge footprint and needs to be slimmed down much further.
MS Office 2013 has a touch mode that's disabled by default (why?). Enabling it means menu options are spaced further apart from each other, allowing for more surface area for touch input.
Another Verge vid shows that most of Win8's built-in apps & functions (except WordPad and WMP) are present in WinRT. Also, a look-see at Dev Mgr, showing the same WDDM 1.2 drivers as in Win8. Some of the driver dates are from 2006, which imply the drivers have not been reworked at all, but were simply recompiled (1:50 mark). This is certainly good news for porting to ARM.
All these indicate a work-in-progress for RT. One worry is that MS, in its push to standardize on Metro, will take measures to lock out the desktop. We'll see how it goes, but the above is a good step toward assuring users that RT won't be just a dumbed-down Windows.
The ZDNet article talking about these two videos is here, and contain a few more insights.
http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-with-windows-rt-finally-7000003589/
The more I watch it, the more I like it. Windows 8 is awesome, fast, smooth and safe. =]
I got very excited about the "desktop mode" in RT, but then I remembered about this:
"heavily-restricted "desktop" mode that will run only Microsoft code...[such as] Word, Excel, PowerPoint...[and] Internet Explorer."
Droff said:
I got very excited about the "desktop mode" in RT, but then I remembered about this:
"heavily-restricted "desktop" mode that will run only Microsoft code...[such as] Word, Excel, PowerPoint...[and] Internet Explorer."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be hacked in no time...
Droff said:
I got very excited about the "desktop mode" in RT, but then I remembered about this:
"heavily-restricted "desktop" mode that will run only Microsoft code...[such as] Word, Excel, PowerPoint...[and] Internet Explorer."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source?
phailyoor said:
Source?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft blog
Chillingly Based said:
Microsoft blog
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link?
Droff said:
I got very excited about the "desktop mode" in RT, but then I remembered about this:
"heavily-restricted "desktop" mode that will run only Microsoft code...[such as] Word, Excel, PowerPoint...[and] Internet Explorer."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This will only apply for about the first week.
Once the people who make software start to build for Windows 8, most apps like for example VLC and so on upload to the app store, most apps will cross compile in the cloud.
That was stated at the launch event.
So it means something like VLC could hit Windows 8 x86/RT/ and Windows Phone 8.
In under 6 months I can see having about 90% of the use of a full PC on RT.
I could find that handy to have an arm based Win Tab, with a dumb version of Photoshop to edit a picture on the fly, hot spot my phone and upload on the go.
My dream is a Nokia Tablet (MS Surface as 2nd pick), my HTC Radar ( with 7.8), and my Canon Digi, all able to fit in my Motor bike Case.
Greywolf_Ghost said:
This will only apply for about the first week.
Once the people who make software start to build for Windows 8, most apps like for example VLC and so on upload to the app store, most apps will cross compile in the cloud.
That was stated at the launch event.
So it means something like VLC could hit Windows 8 x86/RT/ and Windows Phone 8.
In under 6 months I can see having about 90% of the use of a full PC on RT.
Case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it's not been confirmed whether there will be desktop development allowed on Windows RT devices. If it is allowed, then I totally agree with you. We'll see a deluge of desktop apps recompiled to target ARM desktop. If it is not allowed(most likely) then Windows RT devices are worthless.
I dont think they intend At this point to Allow desktop apps in windows rt, however apparently a large amount of the windows 8 rt (metro) apps will be cross platform, working on both arm and x86
Sent from my GT-S5660 using xda app-developers app
There will be, just wait until Windows RT is out, and give it 2 weeks or so.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
It was made very clear, at both the Surface launch, and again at WP8 launch, because of the shared bits and common code that apps will cross platform.
If I am not mistaken the statement was " build once and compile for all"
The developer tools will cover all 3 platforms in 1 program.
It also means because of the common code, if the builders of apps for iphone and android want to add users they can use almost the same code.
So the things you like on your PC, once built for Metro will show up on all 3 platforms, or just the PC and RT.
I truly think this is the call of the developer and not MS. As the developer will pick what platform to compile for.
So in time you will see Firefox, Chrome....PJ64, Nes.....Photoshop,Video Edit...multi format media player like VLC or Real Player.
It is just up to someone out on the internet to click the button and send the uplaod.
If your unsure, go back and watch the Surface launch, I am sure it is said a few times.
>Well, it's not been confirmed whether there will be desktop development allowed on Windows RT devices...If it is not allowed(most likely) then Windows RT devices are worthless.
Metro can't replace the desktop for productivity, so unless MS wants RT to fail out of the gate, RT can't and won't be restricted to just Metro apps. RT will have an uphill battle as it is to get any traction, with no Metro apps to speak of, and having to compete against iPad and cheap Android tabs. Restricting RT to just Metro (and Office) is just plain stupid.
Second, I find it humorous that MS would be able to "restrict" desktop development, or for that matter forcing every vendor to use only the MS app store to sell their wares (and for MS to get its 30 or 20% cut). Windows is still a monopoly, and that would be the first thing vendors will scream about. That, and hobbyist devs (read: XDA types) will do whatever they want to do.
>It also means because of the common code, if the builders of apps for iphone and android want to add users they can use almost the same code.
That's the MS pitch for pushing Metro. However, for the immediate future, RT and WP8 are insignificant entities, and cross-platform isn't a pressing need. Metro's positives have to be weighed against its negatives, and the big one for now is that it can't do desktop (productivity) applications. Cross-platform doesn't matter unless that's resolved.
Windows 8 isn't a finished product, despite the RTM tag. Much will have to change. Either MS needs to do the desktop/Metro integration much better, or Metro will have to grow up. As it stands, I don't see anything as being cast in stone, MS' decrees notwithstanding.
e.mote said:
>Well, it's not been confirmed whether there will be desktop development allowed on Windows RT devices...If it is not allowed(most likely) then Windows RT devices are worthless.
Metro can't replace the desktop for productivity, so unless MS wants RT to fail out of the gate, RT can't and won't be restricted to just Metro apps. RT will have an uphill battle as it is to get any traction, with no Metro apps to speak of, and having to compete against iPad and cheap Android tabs. Restricting RT to just Metro (and Office) is just plain stupid.
Second, I find it humorous that MS would be able to "restrict" desktop development, or for that matter forcing every vendor to use only the MS app store to sell their wares (and for MS to get its 30 or 20% cut). Windows is still a monopoly, and that would be the first thing vendors will scream about. That, and hobbyist devs (read: XDA types) will do whatever they want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, but considering all of the bull MS reps have been spewing, anything can happen, including locking down the desktop on RT. Also, windows RT isn't windows anymore(according to MS), so there's no worries about a monopoly.
Still, I'm hoping for an open desktop on RT that will quickly fill up with powerful desktop apps.
Yo, so I installed the windows phone 8 SDK today, only to figure out that most computers in this world will not run this SDK's emulator.
You will need in an i3 or better CPU from intel or equivalent from AMD (aka latest generation) to run the emulator.
You also have to run this emulator on windows 8 x64 (yep, it HAS to be x64, otherwise it won't work). This, by itself, asks for at least 4 GB of RAM to run the system at a decent speed, also forces you to upgrade to windows 8 (i got it for free due to msdn) and to get Visual Studio 12.
This is, in my opinion, a terrible move from microsoft.
Not everybody has CPUs that have all the requirements. In fact, not even all the newest CPUs have this requirement (Second Level Address Translation it is called). This, automatically, makes developers like me either:
get a new PC
Get a windows phone 8 device.
Luckily for me i have a fairly new laptop, which has an i3 CPU capable to run this stupid emulator.
On top of that, there comes the non-backward compatibility from wp8 to wp7.5 apps. Applications compiled for windows phone 8 SDK will not work on Windows phone 7.5, unless you make another project for 7.5, compile it as dll and reference it from your 8 app. This is kinda overkill.
Windows phone 8 will probably bring in a lot of users, but for developers, it is a blow to the head. I bet windows phone 8 submissions will be very, very low in the next 1 to 2 years.
So, is microsoft risking a bit too much with the switch from 7.5 to 8? On top of all the development slaughter, there's the non-upgradable old devices...
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore and I guess most of them know that. Just look at the front page, not even a single article/news about the Windows (Phone) 8 launch events. It's just android. Even the forum sections for the HTC 8X/S and Samsung ATIV S are missing whereas all the new Google devices have been added shortly after their announcement. So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
morpheuszg said:
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore ....So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Are there any lol? I saw about 6 new apps, and one of them (Pandora) won't be out until sometime in 2013!
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All in all WP8 announcement was not that good...
also, they didn't release the SDK for us devs in order to build nice apps ready to be distributed for new win8 devices...Making us wait for months like if winphone had killer features hidden..and then it was the same old stuff so... i'm also considering to jump the android ship...
StevieBallz said:
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
ohgood said:
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
64 bit is likely to not be the big issue here. I haven't seen to many 32 bit Windows 7 machines. The more problematic move is to lock out everyone who is not using Windows 8. Given that students have access to Windows 8, Visual Studio and the Marketplace for free through Dreamspark that does not sound as that big an issue to me.
In the end it seems they had a reason to go with Hyper-V and Windows-8 simply is the only Desktop operating system which has Hyper-V functionality. The biggest problem is that hardware that is older then 2 years does not support the needed virtualization modes.
How the ecosystem argument plays into this I don't really understand but I guess you meant: new OS that has not that big an installed base yet. Well 4 million upgrades over the last 4 days, not counting the people who bought it with new Hardware or downloaded it from MSDN or Dreamspark it seems to go big rather quickly.
The emulator is a crucial part of application development.
I don't think you want to bring in your early app in alpha stages or even earlier than that on your phone, simply because:
a) you don't have it.
b) Your code might cause damage to the phone, especially on things that use hardware components like vibrators, camera, leds and stuff like that. An unleaded exception can wreck havoc on your phone.
c) The emulator is faster.
Yes, you will eventually need a windows phone 8 device before you publish it, but you should be able to develop your apps before you even have one...
The windows 8 issue is not big. The upgrade from win7 costs like 50 bucks. It is really not that much of an effort.
The insane hardware requirements are, however, and most PCs will not have them. From intel's side, only i3, i5 and i7 processors have what they need, and Pentium dual core for sandy bridge won't...
This is the biggest issue here.
ohgood said:
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm just a noob, but i think when the devs don't hang out here they hang out nowhere or compared to android extremely rare so that it makes no sense to spend time on...
I wish WP8 RT a good future with Dualboot Android.
I have been using this tool to build Windows, Java, Java mobile, Android, Flash and HTML 5 games and apps now for quite some time. (Android is just out of beta and HTML5 is not quite out of beta but is close)
If you want to get into 2d games or make apps that deliver multimedia content in a very short time ( I mean a really short time) then this is the tool for you.
Obviously you will have to get your game plan organized before diving into developing it but you will require a brain as the games don't make themselves.
ClickTeam is the company that has developed the tool over the decades. They are currently trying to get the Steam Greenlight.
The help forum is full of people like yourself as well as seasoned developers that are expanding the use of MMF2 by coding plugins that do what you want. An SDK is also provided if you want to code your own. 3d isn't it's forte but there are a couple of projects involving IRILICHT and OPENGL in the works that will allow this in a future release.
http://www.clickteam.com
People are already selling apps they have made with the XNA (Xbox/Windows Phone) and IOS (Ipad/Iphone) exporters.
If you want the ability to export to a specific platform you have to pay a bit more for the plugin that creates the code.
These two exporters are the only ones that require additional builders in the form of XCode for IOS and the Microsoft Game SDK toolkit for XNA
You also have to purchase a developer license to be able to distribute them via the Apple and Microsoft app stores respectively.
Oh Plus there is a PSP exporter in the works.
corner tedsore
Thanks for the info :good:
Seems great.