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[Mods: I felt that this thread is most appropriate in this section as it pertains specifically to Android development. If you feel this is not the case and should be moved, please do so.]
As many of us know, Eugene and TeamWhiskey both released completely working Froyo ROMs today, and they were able to do so with leaked code that both were asked not to divulge. There's been some infighting between developers, and the use of the leaked code is the major point of contention.
What interests me is how developers have been respecting the GPL. As a major free/open source supporter, the fact that how this license permits developers and users alike to use any source code has not been respected scares me. I certainly don't want to see development of our phones fall by the wayside because some developers have access to code that others don't, when that code [or at least, the source code of developed ROMs that use leaked code] is legally required to be released to the public. (source, and examples of the GPL's standing in an American court of law)
Based on the current events and major milestones in Android development, I'm interested to see if anyone else agrees with me. (Or perhaps I'm wrong entirely - but there's a sticky on the top of this forum reminding developers about abiding by the GPL, so I assume that any ROM or kernel we've seen is GPL-derived.) I realize that some aspects of the Samsung version of Android in particular is under a proprietary license (TouchWiz, RFS), and this little point gets touchy. But Android itself and kernels for Android are GPL - so shouldn't any source code used by any Android project be released?
honestly? I'm concerned about the GPL implications too but I'm 100% sure that I don't have enough information to try to form an opinion about what's right or wrong in this scenario. I'm sure there is a lot going on in the background the average user such as myself doesn't know of what's going on here. edit: trying to speculate here is just too hard to guess, and would invoke both drama and the answers are not backed by anyone.
If you're not sure, ask the FSF.
Eugene and Sombionix need to take up their issues privately (and have since), and that was their only mistake. The rest of the scenario is simply not appropriate to come up publicly.
Although, I agree with the fact that the GPL has to be followed, the GPL only applies to source code. From what I gather, neither of these parties have any source code. They are both in the possession of a leak ROM. The word source here is used to mean the ROM from which the files came from.
When it comes to leaks, files in leaks CAN be traced back to the leak in some cases which is why many times, leaks cannot and will not be shared.
On the other hand, if they have the source code and it has been modified, then they must abide by the GPL.
One thing to consider here is that to the best of my knowledge, nobody other than Samsung at this point has the source to the SGS FroYo builds. What I mean by that is; everything that went on regarding the leak, is based off of binary files taken from a working phone. No source code involved. Google has released the code to 2.2, which satisfies the GPL licensing; with which Samsung has added proprietary software on top of for use with their phones, but because what they have added is NOT GPL'd, are not obligated to provide the source for.
I might be mistaken here, but assuming Samsung didn't change any of the existing AOSP code, and only added their proprietary software on top, then the 'must provide source code' clause is in fact being satisfied by Google. All Samsung needs to do to cover their behinds is provide a link to Google's Android development pages.
if it was GPLv3 we wouldn't have this problem, but a lot of companies are unwilling to jump to GPLv3 instead of GPLv2.
To clarify the position XDA takes on GPL code (having worked on the GPL policy you see at the top of every forum), it is required to release kernel sources if you have access to them.
It seems likely that no source code was available here, and the use of leaks in ROMs has been standard practice for a long time on XDA, and on other sites. There's no issue with this, and it is a signal of trust from the leaker to the developer that the source file will not be made available. Thus you are unlikely to get access to such leaks as a user, though you can enjoy the fruits of them after established developers with contacts have got access to them.
If it were insisted that sources be provided for EVERYTHING, then releases like this would be in breach of the XDA GPL code, and thus would stifle development. Samsung has not provided them with the sources (as I understand), so they have no obligations as far as I can identify, beyond passing on any standard notices placed in the ROM by Samsung, offering source code.
If a custom kernel was compiled to use the ROM, then its sources would be required under the GPL. The actual ROM itself is not GPL'd as such, and treating it as such would be detrimental to users on XDA.
If GPL sources have been used, then they must be posted per the GPL. Otherwise, there are no further obligations per the XDA rules. This does not appear to be the case here.
Just to back up this point, I worked on and released some ROMs, and never touched a line of source code personally. It's possible to do a surprising amount to ROMs without actually editing sources (often they're not available either when working on HTC devices...). It's only within the last month or two that I've actually looked at source code properly with intent on making changes.
Finally, I'll move this into general with a redirect for just now, as it's not directly related to a ROM, though is "on topic".
Ah - so the leaked code used to finish both Eugene's and Team Whiskey's was not code, but binaries (i.e., a leaked ROM?) This makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks for clarification.
I suppose this point becomes moot when froyo finally drops officially, but it's still important.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Well said Pulser_g2
Pulser.......Well said. The important thing people need to remember is not to "create" drama where it is not. The Dev's do work in concert and do produce amazing results contrary to the public chatter.
It is a blessing that there are so many good developers working on the Vibrant vs, say ...(you insert phone of choice). ......now off to flash............
As I mentioned in one of the Froyo threads, I feel like the GPL doesn't really apply in the case of leaked ROMs, since 1) nobody has the source anyway and 2) they're chock full of closed source Samsung bits. The leaked ROMS, and any ROM derived from it in some way, is already questionable to redistribute since Samsung hasn't granted permission to do so.
On the other hand, I do wish people would release source to any modifications of the Linux kernel and any other GPL software that's acquired through legitimate channels. I can understand that the source might be released slightly later than the binary, but most kernels at this point haven't had any source accompany them, ever. This really isn't in the spirit of the GPL, and as a long time Linux user it came as a surprise to me that this is the way things seem to work here.
The bottom line is that, like it or not, people actually don't have the *right* to not release source eventually. I hope they start doing so sooner rather than later.
Looks like a lot of people don't understand the GPL, even senior moderators.
We ARE talking about the GPL, not LGPL, right?
Samsung hasn't made any of the stuff they have posted official... Why would samsung release anything for something that is not yet official...
How would the devs of xda be able to give you the source they don't have?
If you want to fight a losing battle email htc about the mytouch slide..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First, I'm not trying to start a web battle here, just stating the facts.
1. The files that I received from our source gave me consent via email to build a rom and release it. Unfortunately, after the fact the rom was built and released, the source has been claiming that he did not want the files released, which was not at all what was discussed originally. Had he clearly stated that he did not want them released, I would not have done so. He specifically asked me to build a rom, but that he did not want his identity released, which I did not do.
2. You information regarding GPL is very wrong. We were not working from souce because source for the Vibrant 2.2 has not yet been released. The only Galaxy S device that has had source officially released has been the I9000. Had we been working from source, we would have gladly posted our edited source code with accordance with GPL law.
sombionix said:
2. You information regarding GPL is very wrong. We were not working from souce because source for the Vibrant 2.2 has not yet been released. The only Galaxy S device that has had source officially released has been the I9000. Had we been working from source, we would have gladly posted our edited source code with accordance with GPL law.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, this was my mistake. I was under the impression that you were working from source, not just a ROM, as was previously pointed out. So I guess it's a moot point.
This page is dedicated to make a stable ICS-JB for the Motorola Atrix
Brief history about the project:
- Un unstable ICS for Motorola Atrix was leaked
- Developers worked on integrating kernel and drivers into existing build
- Kernel was found to be very unstable and new kernel is being ported to Atrix
- While we wait for the kernel, an ICS CM9 build is ready for anyone willing to join the challenge
Next step:
- Developers should get involved in fixing/enhancing the current build
- Code submission is done by forwarding the changes to the head development team for inclusion
Build source code is all available to anyone willing to participate. The build process follows CyanogenMOD builds.
Source Code location: https://github.com/MROM/android/tree/ics
Curent Team:
Project Managers: marcovrv and R3PL1C/\NT.
Head Developers: Epinter, MMontuori, and TPoint75.
Kernel developers: mvniekerk
Developers: Hayander, scanuto, ravilov, geleiahp, alberto88a, tachospeedo, Isaygarcia, digidrops, fanfantasy, hainguyen273, and caster62003.
Testers/Advanced Users: Carcara, EkzoMan, EMG92, Hayander, BusWah, Girafik, clockworkninja, rspaulo, Bravo9000, vigremrajesh, jlm-familiar, The-Milkybar-Kid, r3xx3r, ovitz, lightlord, ticiano_arraes, reix2x, Nargyle, diegofdg, shabeepk, pixut, Kaworu33, jhonnyx, Haxornator, fanhtc2, julian_fern, iximedaixi, heibailife, shadowed87, Matada02, Zeljko1234, tatperson, dibi91, NemeZZiZZ, Moonshield, bimasakti85, Cocolopes, Pont91, jeanpiere, pre4speed, jeffreygtab, nachobkcc, BravoMotorola and littleemp.
Without help, this project cannot continue.
Count me in for Rebirth
mmontuori said:
Dear fellow Atrix owners,
We all know by now that Motorola has cancelled the plans for upgrading to ICS, I was hoping myself to get the new drivers to update my own rom to ICS or JB. Well, this is not going to happen...
What do we do now?
We can either assume this is the death of this revolutionary device, or work on the Re-Birth. You probably know, but there are a group of developers working on upgrading the current Gingerbread version to ICS or JB. I am personally one of them...
We all need your help... we are donating our precious time and resources to make the Atrix 4G a better device that could last for another year or two, however, alone, we cannot continue with this...
WE NEED YOUR HELP...
If you are still reading this message, good, now it's time to decide if the Atrix is going to die in the couple of months or live for some time. We are looking for:
- People that can write code and troubleshoot (Android Java and C/C++)
- Testers
- Project managers (believe it ICS or JB is a full SDLC project)
- Android Advanced users not too scared of trying something new on their phones
- Donate Atrix Devices that you no longer need
- Of course, donations to at least justify the amount if time we spend on this
- If I forgot something, please reply to this thread with suggections
Again, you decide DEATH or RE-BIRTH
Take Care
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Click to collapse
It is certainly great to see commitment of this kind. I'm no DEV nor do i possess programming skills which could assist you. But please feel free to count me in as a tester and advanced user, more than willing to get his feet wet .
I will glady donate, as should others who wish to revive this device that surely isnt really outdated
I would love to be a tester and advanced user. I have 2 atrixes, so I can test to any extent on one of them. I would donate one but I need to have my main atrix as a backup to the s2 I am in the process of buying. So my backup backup is there for testing anything and everything needed.
I would have no problem in donating except I don't see anyone claiming that it is at all realistically possible to get the full ICS experience in our phones (meaning hardware acceleration and working camcorder). If that changes, I'd be happy to donate to keep my phone alive, but if it's just going to be another dissapointing waiting game with no outcome...
PS: Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on your parade or be an ungrateful bastard as I do really appreciate the work all of you devs put on this. I'd be happy to give money for a bounty.
i'd personally donate 50 dollars to the cause of keeping our phones alive. probably more as time went on as well, just to keep the project alive.
i would also be willing to test ANYTHING on my Atrix, as i have plans of replacing it soon anyways. the fingerprint scanner doesn't work anymore, and the touchscreen is dying.
I'm JUST NOW getting an Atrix and a Lapdock, a little late I know But count me as an advanced user willing to test anything. I hope to get webtop (In non-blur roms) working above all else, unfortunately since moto isn't willing to comply, that is also the most difficult task.
- Android Advanced users not too scared of trying something new on their phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Count on me!
Love the intiative :fingers-crossed: I don't have any technical skills to share, but I'm willing to test and assist in any other way that I can.
Maybe we should get this posted on the Photon forums as well to consolidate the project?
Would you be able to develop a 3.x kernel?
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Tester and advance user!...
from the (m)ATRIX...
mmontuori said:
Dear fellow Atrix owners,
- People that can write code and troubleshoot (Android Java and C/C++)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One more developer ready here !
So you want to build a real ICS/JB ROM for Atrix?
Including a 3.x kernel, hardware acceleration and maybe working webtop?
If at least the first two things apply I would gladly donate for this one.:good:
nachobkcc said:
Count on me!
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Click to collapse
+1 :good:
You guys can count on me as a tester and advanced user!
Sent from my beloved Atrix
Android/Java developer over here. (Also some knowledge in C/C++)
Contact me via : [email protected]
---------- Post added at 01:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 AM ----------
Android/Java developer over here. (Also some knowledge in C/C++)
Contact me via : [email protected]
If there is something i can do that doesn't take me a very lot of time (because of the for-a-life work)
This is possible but requires more than a couple of devs working close together to make it come true. And ofcourse, it will spend us certain time for fix the problem of Nvidia named Tegra2 by re-developing a brandnew driver for our device.
Once this mission completed, we can completely go further ahead to open up other attractive projects on this worth device
Definitely advanced user and tester. Have strong experience on tech related project management, just not on software development projects. Novice on java, almost intermediate on C, advanced in Pascal (dead language I know), but I think I'm a quick learner.
Have a "real" job, so time is limited but can arrange something. Just tell me where I can help.
m.rodriguez<at>computer.org
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I am honored to be a member of this community!
Not a dev or a programmer here, but will do anything I can to give support.
Thank you all!
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
I have some experience in Java, C/C++, the Android Framework and I am willing to learn more. But I also think, a project management is necessary to order issues, make possibilities clear, have a big picture, sharing knowledge. So, when you start, drop a message.
Pronounced "say candy", the goal of SecAndy is to come up with as secure and private of an OS as possible. So as not to reinvent the wheel, we'll base this initiative on our open source code of choice (Android or maybe other developers' choice).
I am not a developer myself but I can without a doubt, because of former professional experiences, organize a project and gather the right people together as a community in order to make sure that project sees the light of day after it has acquired a life of its own if needed, which I think we will agree is something that this kind of project requires because of the scrutiny it will quickly attract.
I am officially calling upon this post all interested developers that could help us fork Android or other open source OS.
Let's get a kickstarter funded and let the party begin. I will update you later today on the advancement of such.
If developers have source code, they will make 100% functional roms. I try sending multiple times emails to LeEco asking for this, but the server always give me spam reply. Because of that I've created a thread in LeEco forum.
Please help doing a coment and voting in the poll.
This is the link to the thread: http://forum.le.com/in/index.php?threads/source-code-for-lemax2.14951/
Regards.
IMPORTANT UPDATE! Now we have a petition in change.org to do the max press possible to the brand. And the signs are for ALL the devices with Qualcomm processors.
Here it is!: https://www.change.org/p/leeco-letv...ents_action_panel_wrapper&utm_medium=copylink
great specs but the development is not so good. if they only release the sources.
Someone mentioned that they are releasing sources in September.
sanke1 said:
Someone mentioned that they are releasing sources in September.
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Click to collapse
Yup, in the official forum, but who knows if is true or a fake...?
I read that they are selling these phones at less than cost as a loss leader to sell people their content services. If so, I very much doubt they are interested in supporting the dev community as that makes it easier for people to get rid of their apps and services from the devices.
We need to achieve that fast!!
Did you get source code from Le? Why don't you share for us?
Anyone has updates about the source code questions?
I didn't find any update on the change.org site.
BTW' we need more votes!!
I sign!
More people need to sign!!
does anyone confirm source code release soon???
i signed.
Signed.
I got response but still no plan for releasing...
https://twitter.com/LeEcoGlobal/status/782992367280422913
I have not (yet) bought the phone b/c there will be no proper development in the absence of a source code release. I will probably go for the Axon 7 although I would like to have a bigger screen. (I will also not buy the Le Pro 3 although it is an interesting phone. Developer-unfriendly phone companies like LeEco are an absolute no-go for me. So sad ... )
Signed
Every tweet they post about their USA launch should get a comment about how their crappy source code policy is...
I doubt they will release the source code
Do not purchase le Max2. Most of the phones have finger print sensor issues.
Sent from my HTC Desire 820 dual sim using XDA-Developers mobile app
mikeysteele said:
Every tweet they post about their USA launch should get a comment about how their crappy source code policy is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, do it guys. I will put it in my petition, that people send tweets with that.
Do you have new news about letv's codes? Why didn't share with us about it?
Maybe the US launch change something I really like the phone my fingerprint has no issue except some times unresponsive but I only had it for a month LOL so fingers crossed
Maybe they'll release the source code and the worth of this phone will double
I think the developers of CM nightly should asap migrate data to lieange server, remove CM trademark lines and just release the bare alpha version ASAP. Others can join and make further improvements from thereon. GUI and other cosmetics choice like boot animation, icon etc can be debated and resolved later on.
Most CM14.1 NIGHTLY were stable enough for daily use so user won't face much issues in this corner.
Meanwhile some developers should also start working on basic guidelines for lineage so that OS remains more or less uniform across the device.
The project could otherwise get hit if it gets delayed. User would migrate to other alternatives.
My assumptions are crude, assuming that migration is simple movement of code from server A to server B. Removals of trademark codes. A few minor tweaks and done. I have deliberately ignored the technical difficulties faced in migration.
ashoka.inder.dev said:
I think the developers of CM nightly should asap migrate data to lieange server, remove CM trademark lines and just release the bare alpha version ASAP. Others can join and make further improvements from thereon. GUI and other cosmetics choice like boot animation, icon etc can be debated and resolved later on.
Most CM14.1 NIGHTLY were stable enough for daily use so user won't face much issues in this corner.
Meanwhile some developers should also start working on basic guidelines for lineage so that OS remains more or less uniform across the device.
The project could otherwise get hit if it gets delayed. User would migrate to other alternatives.
My assumptions are crude, assuming that migration is simple movement of code from server A to server B. Removals of trademark codes. A few minor tweaks and done. I have deliberately ignored the technical difficulties faced in migration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Orrrrrr....we could let the developers work...and release the product THEY want to release and be proud of. In the meantime the git is available for you to make your personal build or continue enjoying the existing CM builds until the LineageOS team are ready to release.
Thanks for your understanding!