Database Users

I think I found the secret to good battery life...

Don't charge your phone overnight! When it gets really low, slap it on the charger for a couple hours until you've got 85-90%. Unplug and enjoy fantastic battery life. I have gotten about double normal battery life (approximately 48 hours) using this method. I'm on CM6.1, mind you, so it may be some quirk with the ROM.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.

Ive been saying this for a while. I charge up my phone to about 96% and i let it go till almost 5% before i throw it back on the charge. That usually gives me 12 to 18 hours. A lot of people tend to get "battery panic" and throw it on soon as they see it draining a bit. Just leave it alone.

I charge on a wall charger. I have three batteries and change daily. I get 22-24 hours and 5-6 hours of hard use.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Here are my observations:
The Evo seems to have a peculiar way of using external power. Once the battery reaches full-charge the external power apparently gets shut off and the phone operates on battery power until the battery level drops to somewhere around 85-90%. Then the charging current switches back on until the battery level reaches 100% again and the process repeats itself. This differs from more conventional scenarios where the phone actually runs on the external power (rather than the battery) once the battery reaches full charge.
I came to this conclusion while playing with my Evo while it was plugged into the charger. First I noticed that the charging light would cycle from green to amber and back every so often. Then I noticed that the battery level indicator would drop even while the charger was plugged in.
So I started checking my battery level in the morning before I removed the phone from the charging dock and discovered that it was rarely at 100%. I'm convinced that the phone does get charged to 100% when I put it on the charging cradle, but then it sits there running off of the battery until it drops to that magic ~85-90% level and the charging current is reestablished.
But a typical night on the charger isn't enough time for the battery level to drop enough to re-start the charging current and if I come along and just grab the phone, I'm starting my day with a battery which isn't completely charged. In my case, the only time this doesn't happen is if my day ends real late and the next morning starts real early.
Once I had a good idea of what was going on, coming up with a work-around was simple: One of the first things I do when I get up in the morning is look at the charging indicator on the phone. If it's amber I do nothing because the phone is already in charging mode. If it's green I remove the phone from the cradle for a moment and put it right back on. Most of the time the indicator will switch from green to amber when I do that, but if it doesn't I'll go online and read the news or something for a few minutes before I put the phone back on the cradle.
Either way, the phone will then charge for 30 minutes or less before the indicator goes green again. By then I'm done with my morning routine and ready to face the day, and when I grab the phone it's fully charged.
My Evo is out-of-the-box stock (for now). It's a hardware version 0003 and has firmware v. 3.29.651.5. I typically leave my Bluetooth turned on all the time, but I leave 4G, WIFI, and the GPS turned off unless I need 'em. My typical daily routine involves several phone calls, some email downloads and uploads, some incidental web browsing, and some geocaching if a new cache is published within a few miles. As long as I stick with that typical routine, my battery is always in the 40-50% range when I put the phone back into the cradle for the night. Of course if I use the phone more it discharges the battery more, but I'm set up to charge it at home, at work, and in the car.
Now despite everything I've posted here, I can't imagine any practical reason to not top off the battery whenever it's convenient. Letting the battery run down before you charge it doesn't have any effect on how long a full charge will run the phone. In fact, it will actually reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles that your battery can provide before it starts losing capacity. I don't want to type it all again, but if you're interested you can CLICK HERE if you'd like to learn more about LiPo battery characteristics and maintenance.
'Nuff outta me
Pete

the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up

ThatTmoGuy said:
the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up
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I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete

PGRtoo said:
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete
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Click to collapse
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.

TheBiles said:
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
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Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete

Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
PGRtoo said:
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete
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I completely agree. This is clearly going on, and I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. I put Cyanogen on mine the day I got it, so I thought that was the issue, but I went back to stock (for a day) and it did the same thing. The light goes off after 90% and it stops charging at 100% until it drops below 90%. I also agree that it doesn't seem to serve a usable purpose, and seems to be a design flaw.
I'm still very happy with the phone, but when battery life is this important, that's kind of a big deal.

BHack said:
Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
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I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.

this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).

turn said:
this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).
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Hey, I've seen MUCH worse forums. Try Anandtech sometimes. Some great threads there, and a ton of awful.
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.

WrlsFanatic said:
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.
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You may not have noticed it, but I can guarantee you the Pre charged as I described. It was a "crapshoot" when you pulled it off the charger as to where you actually were in the charge. You could be anywhere from 95 - 100. Of course, the Pre would always show 100%, just as the EVO does.
Because the Pre's battery was smaller, WebOS was more battery hungry than Android, and the fact that it only cycled down to 95 instead of 90 like the EVO are all reasons why you might not have noticed it, but it was there.

BHack said:
This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
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Why would it be better for the battery? They may be partial charge-discharge cycles but they're cycles nonetheless and the Lithium Polymer cell chemistry is only capable of so many of 'em before it starts to degrade. Short cycles are easier on it than full cycles, but they all take a toll.
I currently have something like 40 LiPo packs that range from dinky little 35mAh single-cell micro batteries to a couple of 10S (37V) 5000mAh packs. I use them in my R/C planes and helicopters, communications gear, and electronics projects and I've used up and disposed of many times that over the years. I even had to build my own packs and chargers when I first started using them because the cells were experimental and there wasn't anything commercially available yet.
And I survived all that without having a single LiPo fire (that I didn't deliberately trigger) and I attribute that to the fact that I've been rabid about learning everything I can about the technology and the use and care of the batteries.
And I'm unaware of any benefit that can be gained from unnecessarily cycling LiPo batteries regardless of how small the cycles are.
Pete

WrlsFanatic said:
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.
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My predominant theory is that HTC has erred on the side of caution on the advice of their legal department. LiPo cells can easily become little firebombs if they're mistreated and the overwhelming majority of "events" occur during a charge cycle. Search YouTube for lipo fire and you'll find pages and pages of examples, but beware:
You may not want to carry yer phone in yer pocket right next to yer cojones anymore after you do.
Pete

Having the wall battery charger solves this issue. The wall charger will charge the battery to full capacity.
It also allows me to test battery life on roms/kernels as accurately as possible. Only time I connect the phone to USB is when I need to move files.

Bioxoxide said:
Having the wall battery charger solves this issue.
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When you say wall charger, do you mean one that you have to remove the battery from the phone and insert it in the charger?
Pete the Curious

Just wanted to say that there have been many discussions on this here at xda, I guess most of us just deal with it.
What I do is charge externaly with a cheap Chinese charger that Came with two batteries that work great.
Every since I made this move I haven't looked back. My battery life is great now, 24 plus hrs per charge. Sometimes I go close to 40 hrs, and I use Bluetooth, have GPS and WiFi ways on. In fact I don't cut any corners, no under clocking either.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Your battery gauge is lying to you (and it's not such a bad thing)

I realize that much of this is common knowledge on XDA. Still, every day I see people post about how their phone "loses" 10% as soon as it comes off the charger. I also have friends who can't understand why their battery drains so quickly. Trying to explain this to people without hard numbers is often met with doubt, so I figured that I'd actually plot it out with real data.
So it's not a piece that is optimized for this audience, but I hope that you find it interesting.
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Your Smartphone is Lying to You
(and it's not such a bad thing)
Climbing out of bed, about to start your day, you unplug your new smartphone from its wall charger and quickly check your email. You've left it plugged in overnight, and the battery gauge shows 100%. After a quick shower, you remember that you forgot to send your client a file last night. You pick up your phone again, but the battery gauge now reads 90%. A 10% drop in 10 minutes? The phone must be defective, right?
A common complaint about today's smartphones is their short battery life compared to older cell phones. Years ago, if you accidentally left your charger at home, your phone could still make it through a weeklong vacation with life to spare (I did it more than once). With the newest phones on the market, you might be lucky enough to make it through a weekend.
And why should we expect anything else? Phones used to have a very short list of features: make and receive phone calls. Today we use them for email, web surfing, GPS navigation, photos, video, games, and a host of other tasks. They used to sport tiny displays, while we now have giant touch screens with bright and vibrant colors. All of these features come at a cost: large energy requirements.
Interestingly enough, improvements in battery management technology have compounded the average user's perception of this problem. Older phones were rather inelegant in their charging behavior; usually filling the battery to capacity and then switching to a trickle current to maintain the highest charge possible. This offered the highest usage time in the short-term, but was damaging the battery over the course of ownership. As explained at Battery University, "The time at which the battery stays at [maximum charge] should be as short as possible. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures."[1]
This is why many new phones will "lose" up to 10% within a few minutes of coming off the charger. The reality is that the battery was only at 100% capacity for a brief moment, after which the battery management system allowed it to slowly dip down to around 90%. Leaving the phone plugged in overnight does not make a difference: the phone only uses the wall current to maintain a partial charge state.
To monitor this, I installed CurrentWidget on my HTC ADR6300 (Droid Incredible), an app that can log how much electric current is being drawn from the battery or received from the charger. Setting it to record log entries every 10 seconds, I have collected a few days worth of data. While many variables are involved (phone hardware, ROM, kernel, etc) and no two devices will perform exactly the same, the trends that I will describe are becoming more common in new phones. This is not just isolated to a single platform or a single manufacturer.
Chart 1 shows system reported battery levels over the course of one night, with the phone plugged in to a charger. Notice that as the battery level approaches 100%, the charging current gradually decreases. After a full charge is reached, wall current is cut completely, with the phone switching back to the battery for all of its power. It isn't until about two hours later that you can see the phone starts receiving wall current again, and even then it is only in brief bursts.
The steep drop in reported battery seen past the 6.5 hour mark shows the phone being unplugged. While the current draw does increase at this point (since the phone is being used), it still cannot account for the reported 6% depletion in 3 minutes. It should also be obvious that maintaining a 100% charge state is impossible given the long spans in which the phone is only operating on battery power.
Using the data from CurrentWidget, however, it is quite easy to project the actual battery state. Starting with the assumption that the first battery percentage reading is accurate, each subsequent point is calculated based on mA draw and time. Chart 2 includes this projection.
Now we can see that the 6% drop after unplugging is simply the battery gauge catching up with reality.
The phone manufacturers essentially have three choices:
1. Use older charging styles which actually maintain a full battery, thereby decreasing its eventual life
2. Use new charging methods and have an accurate battery gauge
3. Use new charging methods and have the inaccurate battery gauge
Option one has clearly fallen out of favor as it prematurely wears devices. Option two, while being honest, would most likely be met with many complaints. After all, how many people want to see their phone draining down to 90% while it is still plugged in? Option three therefore offers an odd compromise. Maybe phone companies think that users will be less likely to worry about a quick drop off the charger than they will worry about a "defective" charger that doesn't keep their phone at 100% while plugged in.
Bump It. Or Should You?
One technique that has gained popularity in the user community is "bump charging." To bump charge a device, turn it off completely, and plug it into a charger. Wait until the indicator light shows a full charge (on the ADR6300, for example, the charging LED changes from amber to green) but do not yet turn the device back on. Instead, disconnect and immediately reconnect the power cord. The device will now accept more charge before saying it is full. This disconnect/reconnect process can be repeated multiple times, each time squeezing just a little bit more into the battery. Does it work?
The following chart plots battery depletion after the device has received a hefty bump charge (6 cycles) and then turned on to use battery power. Note that the system does not show the battery dropping from 100% until well over an hour of unplugged use, at which point it starts to steadily decline. Again, however, it should be obvious that the battery gauge is not syncing up with reality. How could the rate of depletion be increasing over the first 5 hours while the rate of current draw is relatively steady? And why does the projected battery line separate from the reported levels, but then exactly mirror the later rises and falls?
The answer, of course, is that bump charging definitely works. Rather than anchoring our projected values to the first data point of 100%, what happens if we anchor against a later point in the plot?
Aligning the data suggests that a heavy bump charge increases initial capacity by approximately 15%. Note that the only other time that the lines separate in this graph was once again when the phone was put on the charger and topped up to 100%. Just as with the first set of graphs, the phone kept reporting 100% until it was unplugged, dropped rapidly, and again caught up with our projections.
So what does it all mean?
If you absolutely need the highest capacity on a device like this, you will need to bump charge. There are currently people experimenting with "fixes" for this, but I have yet to see one that works. Be warned, however, that repeated bump charging will wear your battery faster and begin to reduce its capacity. If you are a "power user" who will buy a new battery a few months from now anyway, this presumably isn't a concern. If you are an average consumer who uses a device for a few years, I would recommend that you stay away from bump charging. The bottom line is that you don't really "need" to do it unless you are actually depleting your battery to 0% on a regular basis.
If you are someone who can top off your phone on a regular basis, do it. Plug it in when you're at home. Plug it in when you're at your desk. As explained by Battery University, "Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory."[2]
Beyond that, the best advice I can offer is to stop paying such close attention to your battery gauge and to just use your phone. Charge it whenever you can, and then stop obsessing over the exact numbers. If you really need more usage time, buy an extended-capacity battery and use it normally.

Pretty nice to know why it drops from 100% so fast now .....THANKS!
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

Well written ..even prior to the data presentation!

Are the images not posted or am I doing something wrong?

Great read, well thought out and explained.
The only thing I'll add is that while there isn't a "memory affect" on our batteries, it is still recommended to do a full charge/discharge (don't let it get to <5% though) about once every 3 months.

Thanks for the kind words, gents.
spatton said:
Are the images not posted or am I doing something wrong?
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You should be able to see them embedded in the post. You can try reading it directly from my site: http://byrong.com/PowerTesting/
I'm not currently aware of any issues with my hosting, so hopefully it shows up OK for people.
toosurreal01 said:
The only thing I'll add is that while there isn't a "memory affect" on our batteries, it is still recommended to do a full charge/discharge (don't let it get to <5% though) about once every 3 months.
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Good point for many devices which may learn the wrong battery stats if they are never depleted. I am still not sure how this may or may not apply to our devices, so I hesitate to comment on it one way or the other.
I hope someone takes the time to delve more deeply into the battery stats that our devices record. Given the fact that we can wipe them using clockwork recovery, we are at least aware of where/how they are being kept.
That brings up another point worth mentioning, by the way: some people claim that wiping battery stats after a bump charge is a "fix" to increase the total charge that our phones will later apply. This has not been my experience. I have bumped/wiped in accordance with the various tutorials out there, but even afterward I have still found a large difference between a subsequent bump-charging and regular charging.

For some reason, my employer does not like your site and as such, I could not see he images.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. You confirmed my suspicions that I never documented but certainly experienced.
My take on the battery thing now, especially after reading this:
Actively and aggressively seek chargers
Don't look at he specific % of battery, when it gets yellow, get more aggressive
Relax
Use it in the morning, charge it while you shower - better than running out the door.
Great article!

I used to bump charge now if I'm near a charger I just throw it on for a few minutes. I also always carry a spare battery on me.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

Very nice.
I have a couple questions though. So on older phones, leaving it plugged in and it hit 100%, but was still getting full current from the charger for the remainder of the night, damages the battery right? so bump charging is doing the same thing, but not really damaging it as much, becuase we're unplugging it as soon as the light turns green, so its "at 100%" but we arent leaving it plugged in for hours after its green.

Excellent read. Very informative and well written!!

very well written. thank you, sir

spatton said:
For some reason, my employer does not like your site and as such, I could not see he images.
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Wow, I'm a little flattered. This is the first time I've heard of an employer blocking my site.
ufvj217 said:
So on older phones, leaving it plugged in and it hit 100%, but was still getting full current from the charger for the remainder of the night, damages the battery right?
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I don't have hard data for my older devices like I do for this phone, so my answers to this (and your following questions) are a mixture of anecdote, reading, and conjecture.
I don't think that the older devices were still getting full current after hitting 100% but rather some sort of trickle charge to keep them topped off. Battery chemistry itself will limit the charging current that can be applied as the battery approaches capacity.
Depending on the device and its management system, damage could come from too much charge being applied, or it could simply come from keeping the battery at the highest charge level possible for prolonged periods. That may sound like the same thing, but technically it's not.
Batteries are wear items, and even use under ideal conditions will eventually kill them. As shown on Battery University's page on prolonging lithium-based batteries, however, even minor decreases in the final charge level will greatly increase the number of cycles that a battery can endure (note figure 2)
ufvj217 said:
so bump charging is doing the same thing, but not really damaging it as much, becuase we're unplugging it as soon as the light turns green, so its "at 100%" but we arent leaving it plugged in for hours after its green.
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Click to collapse
I'm not 100% sure whether:
Bump-charging is simply charging the battery to its physical capacity, which is greater than the capacity that our software thinks is appropriate;
Bump-charging is actually applying a charge to the battery that is outside of the rated specs for the battery; or
Some mix of 1 & 2
Also, since I can't use any logging tools while the phone is off, I'm not sure how the current behaves once the phone hits 'green' while off.
I therefore don't want to make a hard guess at the three options listed, as I don't want to spread false information. With that said, I think it is apparent through both testing and real-world use that bump-charging applies a charge that is higher than what is allowed when all of the phone's protections are "awake." Given that, we have to ask ourselves why the waking protections are stricter.
If you are inclined to believe that the manufacturer is setting limits that are too low, in an effort to prolong cycle life (or limit liability), then maybe bump-charging isn't too bad.
If you are inclined to believe that the manufacturer chose the charging limits for a good reason, and has the best interest of the consumer in mind, then bump-charging should be considered problematic.
I don't know if one of these is absolutely true over the other, but my life is easier without bump-charging, so I just avoid it. That's a personal choice though. I'm not trying to advance a position here as much as I'm trying to spread information and spark discussion.
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read, and for your questions and comments.

Well put. I rarely bump charge myself, sometimes once i get to work (its at 88-90% by this time, 7am) ill charge it back up, then power it off and bump charge it a couple times. depending on what ill be doing that day after work. since im at a desk though all day, i usually just use it, when it gets to about 50 or so, ill plug it back in, etc. that seems to work fine for me. i do have the htc 2150 battery as well

Like you said, most people probably knew most of that, but still great to see it well written and explained.
Great job on this, I'll most definitely be passing it along to people who ask me what's going on.
Again, well written and very well explained.
Thanks

Thank you!
This has been perplexing me for some time now. Thanks for the info!

Well if youre looking for a batt fix that fixes this issue, you have to take a look in the Nexus and Desire forums. The Desire has it working for sure and I'm not sure about the Nexus. Unfortunately, their fix cannot be applied to our phones because we use a different battery driver...>.< sucks.
And bump charging works sometimes, idk why people turn off their phone to bump charge, thats actually worse than bump charging it when the phone is on. Bump charging when the phone is on is the best thing, the reason why is because percentage means actually nothing with these phones. THe percentage is read from the batterystats.bin file (I think..), which can easily be manipulated. Bump charging works because it rewrites that file once it hits 100% and at the same time, charges back to the highest voltage possible.
I've been working on a fix for our phones (i personally dont own an Incredible, I own an Evo and they use the same driver) and I'm pretty much close. Been on it 24/7 for the past few weeks and all I have to deal with now is the charger timer that seems to reset at a certain time that I cant seem to find yet. This fix should also calibrate the battery on each charge so that you will no longer need to wipe stats or bump charge or do any of that stuff.

so you can charge with the phone on until the led is green, unplug, plug back in (with phone still on) and itll change back to amber for a while?

ufvj217 said:
so you can charge with the phone on until the led is green, unplug, plug back in (with phone still on) and itll change back to amber for a while?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you unplug and plug back in instantly it wont do jack for ya. You gotta unplug, wait until you hit 99% and then plug it back in and wait for 100%. Doing that while the phone is on is best because if you've ever noticed, the batterystats gets messed up while the phone is off for the most part (ex: Recovery mode and stuff). Also, idk if this is true for the Inc, but with the Evo, if you have the phone on the charger while its off and power it on while the LED is green, it doesnt stay charging, it goes off the charger to use some battery to power on and then it charges and that messes with the batterystats which messes with the voltage for some odd reason.

Very nicely done. There are always going to be people who don't get it, but this is easily the best synopsis I've seen yet. People get all wrapped up in numbers, instead of actual use, and the percentage becomes way more important than it should be. Just do whatever you need to do (keep a charger handy, get a bigger battery) to support your needs.
I'm one of the fortunate ones... between the tweaks I've done with custom kernels and whatnot and the fact that I'm not a real heavy user, I have no problem making it from morning to bedtime with more than 50% remaining. And you know what? I don't care whether my phone's at 70% or 10% when I plug it in before bed. As long as it makes it that far, I'm happy. I could easily go two days between charges, but I don't bother, because there really isn't any point other than to gloat about my great battery life, which doesn't impress anyone. I've got a charger, and I use it every night. It works for me.

One of the best posts i ever read here! Kudos from an electrical engineer

Battery Chemistry

We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.

Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium

This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).

You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.

Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).

jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?

Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?

Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.

Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium

Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.

The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....

jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.

Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.

Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this

Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium

ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.

Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.

Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...

stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.

Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.

[RETURNED THE BATTERY] New battery, wrong temparature in stats...

Hello, i have bought a new battery and it is reporting wrong temperature which is always -7 c or -8 c. I cant leave my battery in wall charger or in phone to charge, because it may overcharge since its showing a wrong temp value and explode or cause a fire. (also it chargers never report it as"charged", always red led on phone and blinks on standalone charger). I think battery has a malfunctioning thermistor, so i talked to seller and he sent me a new one, but this battery has the same problem. Is there a way to fix this? Battery is not oem , it says oem but it doesn't seem like a oem (poor printing and some differences but it has a serial and manufacturing day on it). Can you guys please help me? I don't know if i should return these batteries.
edit: i forgot to state that baterry can be charged with a external charger. Seller let me keep one of the batteries and it is functioning as expected even it has a wrong temperature reading. I suggest that someone with a battery problem should read musicfanat's post.

cizkek_ said:
Hello, i have bought a new battery and it is reporting wrong temperature which is always -7 c or -8 c. I cant leave my battery in wall charger or in phone to charge, because it may overcharge since its showing a wrong temp value and explode or cause a fire. (also it chargers never report it as"charged", always red led on phone and blinks on standalone charger). I think battery has a malfunctioning thermistor, so i talked to seller and he sent me a new one, but this battery has the same problem. Is there a way to fix this? Battery is not oem , it says oem but it doesn't seem like a oem (poor printing and some differences but it has a serial and manufacturing day on it). Can you guys please help me? I don't know if i should return these batteries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never seen a negative temp in a batterie for our phones but i think i would send them back instead.

faustino_pico said:
I've never seen a negative temp in a batterie for our phones but i think i would send them back instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you for your reply, i have already returned one of the batteries . i better change my posts header. the one batery im keeping has no charge problem anymore, i dont know what changed but still temp problem exists, im regularly checking it with my hand :cyclops:

In fact the temperature is used only as protecting parameter - to avoid overheating (which sometimes may lead to fire). The only way used to control charge cycle for li- batteries is voltage - charger should stop at 4.2V. Usually, if the charger circuit is fine it will not let the current be so high to heat the battery to dangerous temp. So if it is the thermistor or some other electronic fault then checking temp with hand is reasonable way to control charging.
The fact the charging process finishes also points that battery itself is more or less OK.
By the way, does it provide similar working time as original battery? Is the charging time also similar?
From the other hand you should understand the risk of using battery with any issues. At least you may put the phone while charging to avoid fire in case something goes wrong. (frying pan is not the most crazy idea )

musicfanat said:
In fact the temperature is used only as protecting parameter - to avoid overheating (which sometimes may lead to fire). The only way used to control charge cycle for li- batteries is voltage - charger should stop at 4.2V. Usually, if the charger circuit is fine it will not let the current be so high to heat the battery to dangerous temp. So if it is the thermistor or some other electronic fault then checking temp with hand is reasonable way to control charging.
The fact the charging process finishes also points that battery itself is more or less OK.
By the way, does it provide similar working time as original battery? Is the charging time also similar?
From the other hand you should understand the risk of using battery with any issues. At least you may put the phone while charging to avoid fire in case something goes wrong. (frying pan is not the most crazy idea )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is good to know that it won't effect charging . I am using an external, wall charger for the battery and i haven't noticed any over heat problems in 10 days . It is really weird that i can't charge it with the phone, Also it is lasting really good, a minimum of 6 hours with heavy use (edge connection is always on) and 10 with normal use. I was really afraid that a wrong temparature reading could make the phone unusable.

Does fast-charging affect battery life?

I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?

This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well

I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app

There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.

Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.

Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.

Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.

Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'

A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P

dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.

dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.

There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.

Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app

crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.

crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )

To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?

billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.

acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.

billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.

acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.