Database Users

Xoom storage, why MTP instead of USB file system, true APP2SD (from Google developer)

If you are still wondering:
- What is the breakdown of that 32GB Xoom internal memory (how many parition, how much space for apps / files)?
- Why Google is using MTP instead of USB file transfer on Honeycomb?
Here is straight answer from Google developer:
MTP is a big improvement over USB mass storage — for devices with lots of internal memory, a manufacturer no longer needs to come up with some hard partition between the USB mass storage and internal storage. Instead, they are all in one partition, with MTP providing access to the directory of media files that would normally be available through USB mass storage.This means there is no longer a need for apps on SD card for such devices, because what used to be the “internal SD card” is in the same partition as where applications are stored. The storage on your device can be used for either applications or media, depending on what you want to put on it. You aren’t stuck with how much space the manufacturer decided to leave for the two areas.
Oh also this means that the media storage doesn’t need to be unmounted from Android when it is being access through the PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://phandroid.com/2011/02/27/mac-users-require-file-transfer-utility-for-android-3-0/
Finally, true APP2SD You now have 32GB to put all your apps!!!

Sounds like a good thing!

This is a great explanation. Thanks for posting.

There is no doubt that mtp has advantages over mass storage. On the other hand I miss the ability to attach it to any computer and access files. It is not a huge problem but does add a limitation that was not there before.
That saod it is nice being able to access files on my computer without losing access to the partition on the device.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

I only see a problem if you flash different roms and have to do full data wipes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

jvs60 said:
I only see a problem if you flash different roms and have to do full data wipes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure future versions of CWM will be set to ignore that one folder.. I hope. Otherwise nandroid backups will take forever.

I'm not sure in terms of security it is a huge improvement; unless there is an option to turn it on/off somewhere.
Previously I would have to plug an Android device in to my computer, turn the device on, enter my unlock code, and then specifically allow the computer access via the USB. This morning I just plugged my xoom in and, poof, access to all my stuff.
At least before someone had to take my sdcard out at put it in their computer manually

Does MTP have anything to do with file size limit? I've seen posted on this forum that you can't load video files larger than 4gb onto the Xoom because of FAT32, is that still the case?

This MTP also seems to hide a lot of file from being seen by a pc. I open folders with File manager on the Xoom and see more folders namely the android folder which has game save data and other odd ball files. When hooked to a pc its blank. With MTP it seems all your allowed to do is transfer music, video and pics.

Malcus1 said:
Does MTP have anything to do with file size limit? I've seen posted on this forum that you can't load video files larger than 4gb onto the Xoom because of FAT32, is that still the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still haven't got around to testing (so many things to try out!), but in some of the video threads, I've been told XOOM uses EXT4 format not FAT32, and thus, should not have that 4GB limit. I've been re-encoding video files to meet XOOM's current playback limitations, and have been reducing them to sub 4GB anyway, so I haven't tested that for myself.

What Android 3.1 DIDN'T Fix!

Still no sdcard slot!
Still no USB On-The-Go memory device support (we have USB joystick support but still no memory devices)
I haven't tried abusing the Camera Connection Kit yet to see if I can use a camera as a memory card reader.

scotty1024 said:
Still no sdcard slot!
Still no USB On-The-Go memory device support (we have USB joystick support but still no memory devices)
I haven't tried abusing the Camera Connection Kit yet to see if I can use a camera as a memory card reader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SD card is a motorola issue, not a google issue. This has been pointed out in many, many forums.

what about Linux connection via usb. Can anyone confirm if this has been fixed?

vBulletin typing (like XDA) still sucks.

timrock said:
what about Linux connection via usb. Can anyone confirm if this has been fixed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's never been a problem. 3.x and higher use MTP so they can stop using FAT32 for internal storage. Linux does MTP just fine. What are you talking about?

jdclucidly said:
It's never been a problem. 3.x and higher use MTP so they can stop using FAT32 for internal storage. Linux does MTP just fine. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why was this method needed? Xoom will not show up as a drive, unless you do this. Where as with the Droid X, once plugged in, it showed up as a drive. I hope this makes sense.

timrock said:
why was this method needed? Xoom will not show up as a drive, unless you do this. Where as with the Droid X, once plugged in, it showed up as a drive. I hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB Mass Storage is the old method and it shows up as a drive. The Droid X is older than the Xoom therefore it is using USB Mass Storage.
MTP is Media Transfer Protocol and is the method used by 3.0 and higher.
How is it that you're using Linux and you don't understand this stuff?

jdclucidly said:
USB Mass Storage is the old method and it shows up as a drive. The Droid X is older than the Xoom therefore it is using USB Mass Storage.
MTP is Media Transfer Protocol and is the method used by 3.0 and higher.
How is it that you're using Linux and you don't understand this stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really? you cant just answer the question? maybe im new to linux. maybe im dual booting. If you dont want to answer, don't. No need to for the rude responses.

slack04 said:
The SD card is a motorola issue, not a google issue. This has been pointed out in many, many forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, from Android Honeycomb 3.1 Details ...
...Android 3.1 still isn’t intended, at the operating system level, for managing external storage devices. This detail, which came out in conversations I had with Google engineers today, explains why the Android file system organization is, well, a mess...
“We don’t want to expose the user to file locations,” explained Hiroshi Lockheimer, director of engineering at Google. “How do you manage that as a user? The not-good answer is with the file browser.” Lockheimer says that many of the experiences I’ve seen so far are what individual hardware manufacturers have enabled, as opposed to what Google has provided natively. The good thing is that Lockheimer says Google is looking at ways to do this; but the problem hasn’t been solved yet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I still dont understand why they havent added (or, in fact, have removed) the "clear all" button in notifications. If I download more than 2 files it really annoys me. (I'm OCD about unchecked notifications)

timrock said:
really? you cant just answer the question? maybe im new to linux. maybe im dual booting. If you dont want to answer, don't. No need to for the rude responses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He did answer you. The xoom uses mtp which will not show up as a drive in Linux unlike older android which used mass storage. Mtp allows you to add files with out having to unmount the file system on the xoom. There are many threads on how to set mtp up. If you're new to Linux it may seem hard to do but its simple. Do a Google search for mounting xoom Ubuntu and you should find them easy.

Just-in-time said:
He did answer you. The xoom uses mtp which will not show up as a drive in Linux unlike older android which used mass storage. Mtp allows you to add files with out having to unmount the file system on the xoom. There are many threads on how to set mtp up. If you're new to Linux it may seem hard to do but its simple. Do a Google search for mounting xoom Ubuntu and you should find them easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. And i meant answer without the snide remark. Thanks again for explaining.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

i know just what you mean, however i quite enjoy having the (X)s to click to get rid of them. I would like to see a slide to delete in the notifications aswell

Dubar said:
I still dont understand why they havent added (or, in fact, have removed) the "clear all" button in notifications. If I download more than 2 files it really annoys me. (I'm OCD about unchecked notifications)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
totally agree. there are lots of things i understand why they're waiting, but this? come on. i could clear all on my phone.

I just want to clear up a misconception about MTP. It is not a cross platform solution for transferring files.
My post from another thread on the subject:
I can mount my Xoom in linux using libmtp and mtpfs, however, it's slow, kludgy, and generally feels like it will flake out at any moment. Additionally, even when it's mounted, I can't seem to copy music across properly; it doesn't keep the folder structure. In fact, the directories are created and any non audio files are copied across fine, but every mp3/audio file is flatly dropped into the Music directory.
I tried to copy some music onto it from my fiancee's windows xp laptop and it worked ok (though the album art didn't appear).
The move away from mass storage to MTP is a massive disappointment for me. Mass storage has always been a big selling point for me when purchasing a device and for Google to switch to using a Windows specific protocol and consider it cross platform is a big letdown. MTP on mac requires a special app and on linux, support is dire, certainly for anything more complex than simply pulling images from a camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can just about get files onto the xoom, but I can't load music onto it; all of my mp3s just land up in the top level of the Music directory, regardless of how I attempt to transfer the files. I think transferring a zip file of the music and unzipping from within a file manager on the xoom might do the trick, but this isn't a good, workable solution. I understand the reasoning behind MTP, but it most certainly isn't cross platform and shouldn't be mentioned as a working solution by Google.
Hopefully people will soon realise not to keep insisting that the xoom has linux support when using MTP.

New update for drag racing is really choppy, lile playing angry birds on a g1.... but samauri II and the other thd games run smooth...dont kmow if its 3.1 kernel cuz it plays fine on my mytouch4g
XOOM

slack04 said:
The SD card is a motorola issue, not a google issue. This has been pointed out in many, many forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that is a motorola problem and xoom is a barebone system. Who's gonna fix it, how?

stevebakh said:
I just want to clear up a misconception about MTP. It is not a cross platform solution for transferring files.
My post from another thread on the subject:
I can just about get files onto the xoom, but I can't load music onto it; all of my mp3s just land up in the top level of the Music directory, regardless of how I attempt to transfer the files. I think transferring a zip file of the music and unzipping from within a file manager on the xoom might do the trick, but this isn't a good, workable solution. I understand the reasoning behind MTP, but it most certainly isn't cross platform and shouldn't be mentioned as a working solution by Google.
Hopefully people will soon realise not to keep insisting that the xoom has linux support when using MTP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change all the extension names in the song file name to .mp and it will allow the transfer
Then use something of your liking, I use astro file manager, and just add the 3 on the a tail end of the extension.
Its a b, but you can at least get a couple good songs on there.

stevebakh said:
I just want to clear up a misconception about MTP. It is not a cross platform solution for transferring files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, it's a cross-platform solution for transferring MEDIA, being the Media Transfer Protocol.
It's smart enough to detect the media files that it supports and put them in the right place. I prefer it over the old way, I hated having to unmount the sdcard every single time.
A poorly made Linux MTP library doesn't make it not cross-platform. It's an open standard for transferring media to USB devices.
It's not perfect, but it's great for a device like the Xoom where unmounting the internal memory is not desirable.
Honestly users get really confused by all of the extra directories when mounting an android sd-card anyways.

slack04 said:
The SD card is a motorola issue, not a google issue. This has been pointed out in many, many forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it has been a big debate on rather it is Google's or Moto's issue, but I am sure that we all can agree that it needs to be fixed no mater whos issue it is.

Android File Transfer GS3

Was wondering about everyone's thoughts about this new feature. Personally I think it's crap. I can't view/read ANY files from the sd cards unless I FIRST transfer them to my mac...GAY! Why can't we just mount the SD cards like the GS2???

Can you please explain because I'm having this issue managing files from the sd
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using XDA

20blks said:
Can you please explain because I'm having this issue managing files from the sd
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically, the mac tells me I have to transfer a file to the mac to view it....which sucks. With phones like the Galaxy S2, I was able to plug in and mount the sd cards and it would act like any other USB mass storage external memory drive.

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "mac". This issue is KILLING me. I can't even find my sd card unless I use the built I file manager
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using XDA

hapary said:
Basically, the mac tells me I have to transfer a file to the mac to view it....which sucks. With phones like the Galaxy S2, I was able to plug in and mount the sd cards and it would act like any other USB mass storage external memory drive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's due to the way that Ice Cream Sandwich handles the Memory. It's always live in the system. The only way to access the Memory is through MTP. There is an advantage of using such because it means that if your phone is formatted ext4 (speed increases if I am not mistaken) you can take advantage of that and still access the data. Both Windows and Linux support MTP, unfortunately Apple has not implemented such even though devices are starting to use MTP more these days.
For Further reading go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol
From reading the site, there is a 3rd party implementation, not sure how up to date it is, but you might be able to make it work.
http://www.wentnet.com/projects/xnjb/ check that out to see if you can enable MTP on your mac which would reduce the need for Android File Transfer.
Also it has been a while since I have used Mac but you might be able to use these instructions to install a Ubuntu supported MTP software on your mac through X11 (allows you to run linux software on your mac) http://www.humans-enabled.com/2011/12/how-to-fix-samsung-galaxy-nexus-mtp.html
One final link.... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1355913

Thanks very much. I'm looking into it now

Ok.. I am using the Android File Transfer program and I can copy individual files to/from my GS3 BUT I cannot create folders for some reason. Even with the +Folder button. The error message reads: "Could not create folder. Try reconnecting or restarting your device." (Obviously I have done both multiple times.
Any thoughts?

on my PC it shows up as a portable media device and allows me to access both internal and SD memory
i did install the galaxy s3 drivers found on the rooting guides though

Can't transfer files with a Mac
M988 said:
on my PC it shows up as a portable media device and allows me to access both internal and SD memory
i did install the galaxy s3 drivers found on the rooting guides though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't get Android File Transfer to work with my Galaxy S3 running CM9 (or CM10, for that matter), either using MTP or using the camera setting. This is really annoying. Anyone know of a way to get it to work? I really wish that USB mounting still worked, so I wouldn't be required to use client software.

It works fine on my mac at work and I have a 5 year old macbook pro. It's not all that bad. I just use it to transfer files when I'm at work.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

hapary said:
I can't view/read ANY files from the sd cards unless I FIRST transfer them to my mac...GAY!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so it's perfectly acceptable and deserving of equal rights?

ergibson83 said:
It works fine on my mac at work and I have a 5 year old macbook pro. It's not all that bad. I just use it to transfer files when I'm at work.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it doesn't work for mine at all. Any tips? Did you have to anything to get it to work? Which ROM are you using?

Batmensch said:
Well, it doesn't work for mine at all. Any tips? Did you have to anything to get it to work? Which ROM are you using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I did was install the app and it popped up a window that displayed sdcard and phone. Each option displays a list of the content on that storage device.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

[Q] MassStorage

Is there a way to connect nexus7 using massstorage instead of MTP?

It is no longer called 'mass storage' it is called MTP. If you have the right drivers installed, usb debugging on, and working usb ports, MTP functions similarly to mass storage giving access to user accessible internal storage from the PC.

Groid said:
It is no longer called 'mass storage' it is called MTP. If you have the right drivers installed, usb debugging on, and working usb ports, MTP functions similarly to mass storage giving access to user accessible internal storage from the PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not semantics- MTP and MSC are two entirely different protocols with differing functionality. With MSC, the computer treats the device as external storage. With MTP, the device retains control of itself and only allows limited access to certain directories. For enthusiasts, MTP and PTP are far less practical than mass storage. For example, on my old dinc, I'd just drag and drop system files as needed. While it's not terribly inconvenient, the lack of mass storage capability has made the process a bit more involved and time-consuming.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

The mass storage mode, at least on my phone, shared fat filesystems. It never exposed any of the partitions that are critical for a working android device. On the nexus7, there is not a partition that is formatted with fat. Instead, the /sdcard is on the same partition as /data, and only partially emulates how fat behaves. For mass storage to work, they would need to give the computer full control of the /data partition, which probably isn't going to work out well.

I maintain that mtp works similarly to mass storage. On my Droid Bionic with mass storage I can see and access the external sdcard (which the N7 doesn't have) and I can see the user accessible internal storage. This does not allow seeing /system or /data or operating system files, but does see internal storage for pictures, music, downloads, etc. When I connect my N7 I also have no access to /system or /data or operating system files, but have full drag/drop, read/write access to internal storage for user files including downloads, music, pictures, etc. It operates exactly as the Bionic in terms of read/write, and drag and drop access to user files.

Groid said:
I maintain that mtp works similarly to mass storage. On my Droid Bionic with mass storage I can see and access the external sdcard (which the N7 doesn't have) and I can see the user accessible internal storage. This does not allow seeing /system or /data or operating system files, but does see internal storage for pictures, music, downloads, etc. When I connect my N7 I also have no access to /system or /data or operating system files, but have full drag/drop, read/write access to internal storage for user files including downloads, music, pictures, etc. It operates exactly as the Bionic in terms of read/write, and drag and drop access to user files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are as similar as Windows and Linux. While they both have some overlap in functionality, they are two entirely different beasts that operate in different manners.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=27510082
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Come on. I never said they are the same thing. I said they have similar functionality. I can read/write, drag/drop files both directions into the same memory areas on the N7 using MTP that I can to my Bionic using Mass Storage. The fact that they do it differently is a moot point. Please share your final thoughts as I have just shared mine. Bye.

Groid said:
Come on. I never said they are the same thing. I said they have similar functionality. I can read/write, drag/drop files both directions into the same memory areas on the N7 using MTP that I can to my Bionic using Mass Storage. The fact that they do it differently is a moot point. Please share your final thoughts as I have just shared mine. Bye.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, you implicitly stated that they are the same thing, just by with a new name. The simple, qualifiable fact remains, however, that MSC allows greater access to internal file structure than MTP. Conversely, MTP allows for transfer of some things that are simply not possible with MSC such as some metadata and DRM. This isn't a matter of opinion, as it is 100% empirical.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Actually it's pain to get mtp to work on Linux and its alot easier to use MSC. they work entirely different
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

So how do i backup my saved games etc.? These filew are not visible on mtp. I can use tib, sure, but I would like just saves, not whole game.
I can use some weird file manager on device and upload It to PC using samba, but it is VERY inconvenient.
Also I hope to be able to fix mediaserver issue when I would be able to see all files on the PC.

AW: [Q] MassStorage
evlo said:
So how do i backup my saved games etc.? These file are not visible on mtp. I can use tub, sure, but I would like just saves, not whole game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use adb backup ... but there might be an issue with backing up the shared filesystem (at least in 4.0.x) the backup couldn't be restored without repacking the backup file.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

Someone please write a mass storage app for lg g2

Mass Storage availability would really make this phone complete for me. Is it that difficult? I have tried a bunch of other apps with no luck . I know Samsung wrote an App for their phones.

Danester said:
Mass Storage availability would really make this phone complete for me. Is it that difficult? I have tried a bunch of other apps with no luck . I know Samsung wrote an App for their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they did not. Some phones with external SD cards you can still access as UMS. No modern phone can you access the internal SD that way as the internal "sdcard" is just a subfolder of the /data partition. UMS requires the device to unmount from the phone to mount on the PC, and it just simply isn't going to work.
There are dozens of apps in the market to transfer files over wifi in various forms.. scp, smb, ftp, browser, etc..
Personally I use a scp server that will run as root so it can use port 22 and use rsync when I want to move large amounts of files around.

Danester said:
Mass Storage availability would really make this phone complete for me. Is it that difficult? I have tried a bunch of other apps with no luck . I know Samsung wrote an App for their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you want to use mass storage so much? if it is to transfer files to a mac, download AFT here...http://www.android.com/filetransfer/

I My old htc and earlier phones with android had mass storage. The reason i want it so bad is that my car has ford sync and with ums through usb, i can verbally select tracks i want played without looking at the phone. Bluetooth works but i have to look down at the phone to change songs. Also with old versions of android i could get the stereo sync system to read back my texts and i could verbally send texts also. It was awesome. Iphones work perfectly but i hate iphone. Android worked until icecream sandwich. Its a huge loss for people with stereo systems that have verbal command control across all makes of cars.
Sent from my LG-D803 using xda app-developers app

With HTC One X I could mount it from the recovery. But I guess G2 would not have that option. (One X doesn't have SD, it's internal memory like G2)

+1

khaytsus said:
No they did not. Some phones with external SD cards you can still access as UMS. No modern phone can you access the internal SD that way as the internal "sdcard" is just a subfolder of the /data partition. UMS requires the device to unmount from the phone to mount on the PC, and it just simply isn't going to work.
There are dozens of apps in the market to transfer files over wifi in various forms.. scp, smb, ftp, browser, etc..
Personally I use a scp server that will run as root so it can use port 22 and use rsync when I want to move large amounts of files around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are phones that do not support mass storage, such Xperia S or U, but there were apps written by XDA members that allowed me to use mass storage. Why there is no such app for G2?

+1 +1 +1