Database Users

Xoom storage, why MTP instead of USB file system, true APP2SD (from Google developer)

If you are still wondering:
- What is the breakdown of that 32GB Xoom internal memory (how many parition, how much space for apps / files)?
- Why Google is using MTP instead of USB file transfer on Honeycomb?
Here is straight answer from Google developer:
MTP is a big improvement over USB mass storage — for devices with lots of internal memory, a manufacturer no longer needs to come up with some hard partition between the USB mass storage and internal storage. Instead, they are all in one partition, with MTP providing access to the directory of media files that would normally be available through USB mass storage.This means there is no longer a need for apps on SD card for such devices, because what used to be the “internal SD card” is in the same partition as where applications are stored. The storage on your device can be used for either applications or media, depending on what you want to put on it. You aren’t stuck with how much space the manufacturer decided to leave for the two areas.
Oh also this means that the media storage doesn’t need to be unmounted from Android when it is being access through the PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://phandroid.com/2011/02/27/mac-users-require-file-transfer-utility-for-android-3-0/
Finally, true APP2SD You now have 32GB to put all your apps!!!

Sounds like a good thing!

This is a great explanation. Thanks for posting.

There is no doubt that mtp has advantages over mass storage. On the other hand I miss the ability to attach it to any computer and access files. It is not a huge problem but does add a limitation that was not there before.
That saod it is nice being able to access files on my computer without losing access to the partition on the device.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

I only see a problem if you flash different roms and have to do full data wipes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

jvs60 said:
I only see a problem if you flash different roms and have to do full data wipes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure future versions of CWM will be set to ignore that one folder.. I hope. Otherwise nandroid backups will take forever.

I'm not sure in terms of security it is a huge improvement; unless there is an option to turn it on/off somewhere.
Previously I would have to plug an Android device in to my computer, turn the device on, enter my unlock code, and then specifically allow the computer access via the USB. This morning I just plugged my xoom in and, poof, access to all my stuff.
At least before someone had to take my sdcard out at put it in their computer manually

Does MTP have anything to do with file size limit? I've seen posted on this forum that you can't load video files larger than 4gb onto the Xoom because of FAT32, is that still the case?

This MTP also seems to hide a lot of file from being seen by a pc. I open folders with File manager on the Xoom and see more folders namely the android folder which has game save data and other odd ball files. When hooked to a pc its blank. With MTP it seems all your allowed to do is transfer music, video and pics.

Malcus1 said:
Does MTP have anything to do with file size limit? I've seen posted on this forum that you can't load video files larger than 4gb onto the Xoom because of FAT32, is that still the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still haven't got around to testing (so many things to try out!), but in some of the video threads, I've been told XOOM uses EXT4 format not FAT32, and thus, should not have that 4GB limit. I've been re-encoding video files to meet XOOM's current playback limitations, and have been reducing them to sub 4GB anyway, so I haven't tested that for myself.

Folder structure

I am trying to understand the folder structure on the TF.
I have a 16GB micros SD card and I want all data type files to be saved there e.g. photos, downloads, music etc.
There is a folder at the top level called /SDCARD and I had assumed that this was the MicroSD card and all this sort of data is being stored in sub folder from there.
I have now realised that the MicroSD card is actually accessed from /Removable/MicroSD and that the TF has not stored anything on it. I have just moved my music and video to there.
Can I move all the other SDCARD subfolders to /Removable/MicroSD and then delete the SDCARD folder?
I can't see the point of having a folder called SDCARD it is very misleading.
Thanks for any help.

This is your internal storage. I'm not sure why it is displayed this way, maybe that will become standard in Gingerbread?

You cannot 'delete' the SDCARD folder. It is a mount point for the remainder of your internal storage (16GB or 32GB)
As bizarre as it seems when compared to a phone, this actually makes more sense. My Droid X has 6.5GB of the 8GB internal memory put aside for the /data partition. Despite having the phone for a full year and having a ton of apps installed, /data still has 5GB free. That's 5GB of storage I do not have access to, so it's effectively wasted.
On the ASUS (and others HC tabs?) that space exists as a virtual device /dev/fuse and is mounted as /mnt/sdcard. A symbolic link exists /sdcard which points to the mount point. The net result is, you have the majority of free space on the internal memory available to you. If you didn't, there'd be no incentive to buy the 32GB version over the 16GB version.
It is called /sdcard to maintain the illusion within the OS. This space, like it or not, is your primary storage. It makes your actual sdcard more of a transient storage location, great for just music, movies, etc., that you do not necessarily want to keep on the device long term. This is a great advantage as you can keep multiple sdcards with different content and not worry about messing up the core OS storage needs.
Be aware that the OS and apps expect to find certain data in /sdcard and moving the folders to your 'external' card will only force these apps and processes to recreate the folders in /sdcard. Also some apps will have lost some of their data and may not operate as expected or will act as when they were first installed (games will redownload supporting data, for example)
Sent from my rooted ASUS Transformer running PRIME 1.4

jhanford said:
You cannot 'delete' the SDCARD folder. It is a mount point for the remainder of your internal storage (16GB or 32GB)
As bizarre as it seems when compared to a phone, this actually makes more sense. My Droid X has 6.5GB of the 8GB internal memory put aside for the /data partition. Despite having the phone for a full year and having a ton of apps installed, /data still has 5GB free. That's 5GB of storage I do not have access to, so it's effectively wasted.
On the ASUS (and others HC tabs?) that space exists as a virtual device /dev/fuse and is mounted as /mnt/sdcard. A symbolic link exists /sdcard which points to the mount point. The net result is, you have the majority of free space on the internal memory available to you. If you didn't, there'd be no incentive to buy the 32GB version over the 16GB version.
It is called /sdcard to maintain the illusion within the OS. This space, like it or not, is your primary storage. It makes your actual sdcard more of a transient storage location, great for just music, movies, etc., that you do not necessarily want to keep on the device long term. This is a great advantage as you can keep multiple sdcards with different content and not worry about messing up the core OS storage needs.
Be aware that the OS and apps expect to find certain data in /sdcard and moving the folders to your 'external' card will only force these apps and processes to recreate the folders in /sdcard. Also some apps will have lost some of their data and may not operate as expected or will act as when they were first installed (games will redownload supporting data, for example)
Sent from my rooted ASUS Transformer running PRIME 1.4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After reading your explanation, it makes better sense to me. I was a bit annoyed, but I see how this could work to my favor. Using just the actual SD cards for movies, music, ect.

Moving data - Video
Sorry, I find what is said here a little disconcerting.
Why have SD cards and USB devices attached (eg. USB Flash drives, hard drives) when the data flow only goes one way, "in", and not out.
If I want to edit a video, the files are too large to email.
I can't find a way to move the video to an external device.
All one can do, as far as I can tell, is to upload the unedited video to YouTube.
Once there initially one get an error message saying that the file type is not recognized. It is...eventually, but only after it's fully processed. This is really confusing to the user. You'd think Google would give Android users a processing message rather than something that makes you think there is no way to view and share your video other than your tablet.
I couldn't find a way to tag a video either.
The default seemed to be "entertainment."
The options for sharing video are much to limited.
The only site you can upload a video to is YouTube.
I'd love to be able to put it on another site (e.g. a personal/corporate website).
I sure wish there were a way of off-loading and storing a folder generated from the Tablet to an external device, especially one with external ports like the Transformer.
If anyone knows of an app to do two way data flows, I'd sure like to know about it because my SHDC card and USB Flash drives look so lonely with nothing to do.

[email protected] said:
Sorry, I find what is said here a little disconcerting.
Why have SD cards and USB devices attached (eg. USB Flash drives, hard drives) when the data flow only goes one way, "in", and not out.
If I want to edit a video, the files are too large to email.
I can't find a way to move the video to an external device.
All one can do, as far as I can tell, is to upload the unedited video to YouTube.
Once there initially one get an error message saying that the file type is not recognized. It is...eventually, but only after it's fully processed. This is really confusing to the user. You'd think Google would give Android users a processing message rather than something that makes you think there is no way to view and share your video other than your tablet.
I couldn't find a way to tag a video either.
The default seemed to be "entertainment."
The options for sharing video are much to limited.
The only site you can upload a video to is YouTube.
I'd love to be able to put it on another site (e.g. a personal/corporate website).
I sure wish there were a way of off-loading and storing a folder generated from the Tablet to an external device, especially one with external ports like the Transformer.
If anyone knows of an app to do two way data flows, I'd sure like to know about it because my SHDC card and USB Flash drives look so lonely with nothing to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is nothing stopping you from copy files from the internal storage to an external sdcard. From the built-in file manager you can select a folder using the check boxes to the left of it, and then click the Copy or Cut button at the top of the screen, then navigate up until you see "Removable". Tap that and then "MicroSD" and then you can tap "Paste" at the top of the screen to copy or move to the new location.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

Drive letters or some kind of unique ID from the root would be favorable. I know it's meant to adapt to Android, but last time I checked, Honeycomb was a separat version of the OS. It's unfortunate that it has to fool both the user and itself to be effective.

moo99 said:
Drive letters or some kind of unique ID from the root would be favorable. I know it's meant to adapt to Android, but last time I checked, Honeycomb was a separat version of the OS. It's unfortunate that it has to fool both the user and itself to be effective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It still maintains the overall Adroid/Linux filesystem structure, there are no lettered drives in *NIX.

I know that, bru. Calling it , I dont know, "Internal" instead of "SD Card" would make a little sense considering there are two separate ports for SD Cards on there. Writing an alias isnt that complicated

USB Mass Storage (SGS3 Easy UMS)

Our tablet lacks the USB Mass Storage capability, also Note 2 lacks this also.
I have found this little gem app that works on Note 2, i hope that someone here will test this and report back.
It only works on external SD, but it is way better then MTP.
Here is the app thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009
[UPDATE] It works very well, also with the SD card formated as exFat! :thumbup:
Thanks.

mdalacu said:
Our tablet lacks the USB Mass Storage capability, also Note 2 lacks this also.
I have found this little gem app that works on Note 2, i hope that someone here will test this and report back.
It only works on external SD, but it is way better then MTP.
Here is the app thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is this better than MTP? I connect my Note and it shows up - I double click on it and it shows me a drive for the internal and external storage and you can drag file in and out of them. The only two issues are that when you copy some kinds of media, you get asked if you want to convert it - and on the Note, it runs an actual app to do the MTP. It's odd because other Android devices don't do that (even the Samsung Nexus doesn't).

TheWerewolf said:
How is this better than MTP? I connect my Note and it shows up - I double click on it and it shows me a drive for the internal and external storage and you can drag file in and out of them. The only two issues are that when you copy some kinds of media, you get asked if you want to convert it - and on the Note, it runs an actual app to do the MTP. It's odd because other Android devices don't do that (even the Samsung Nexus doesn't).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you use other OSes then Windows you will notice the difference, it does not work reliable on Linux and Mac. MTP is slow , with UMS i get something about 20MB/s read/write. Also, if you have to modify a file then that file will first be downloaded locally on your PC, modified and the reuploaded instead of modify it on the phone. This is how MTP works.

I have used the app 10 times by now, no issues at all. I also checked the sd card with scan disk on win7, no corruption !

By the way, there's a good technical reason why modern Android devices don't do USB Mass Storage.
USB Mass Storage operates on an *entire partition* and needs *exclusive* access to that partition. So the phone needs to be able to totally *un-mount* the partition (stop using it entirely) which is to be mounted as USB Mass Storage.
Older devices like my Samsung Galaxy S2 had the built-in storage separately partitioned. The downside to this, however, was that app storage was on a small, limited partition so even though the phone had 16GB, apps were limited to a 2GB (or so) partition.
New devices have all data on one partition so the app data can expand as far as it needs to into your storage space, but it means that it's no longer possible to mount it over USB Mass Storage as you can no longer get exclusive access to a partition.

MercuryStar said:
By the way, there's a good technical reason why modern Android devices don't do USB Mass Storage.
USB Mass Storage operates on an *entire partition* and needs *exclusive* access to that partition. So the phone needs to be able to totally *un-mount* the partition (stop using it entirely) which is to be mounted as USB Mass Storage.
Older devices like my Samsung Galaxy S2 had the built-in storage separately partitioned. The downside to this, however, was that app storage was on a small, limited partition so even though the phone had 16GB, apps were limited to a 2GB (or so) partition.
New devices have all data on one partition so the app data can expand as far as it needs to into your storage space, but it means that it's no longer possible to mount it over USB Mass Storage as you can no longer get exclusive access to a partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow that is an awesome explanation of the process. I personally have wondered for quite a while why new devices are this way, just never really bothered looking into it. Thanks.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

MercuryStar said:
By the way, there's a good technical reason why modern Android devices don't do USB Mass Storage.
USB Mass Storage operates on an *entire partition* and needs *exclusive* access to that partition. So the phone needs to be able to totally *un-mount* the partition (stop using it entirely) which is to be mounted as USB Mass Storage.
Older devices like my Samsung Galaxy S2 had the built-in storage separately partitioned. The downside to this, however, was that app storage was on a small, limited partition so even though the phone had 16GB, apps were limited to a 2GB (or so) partition.
New devices have all data on one partition so the app data can expand as far as it needs to into your storage space, but it means that it's no longer possible to mount it over USB Mass Storage as you can no longer get exclusive access to a partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right about internal storage, but , this app only exports the External SD Card, which is formtated as FAT32 or ExFat. The app first unmounts the card from phone, export it through USB, then with the middle button, when you are done on PC (end ejected the card), will mount it right back.
This way you could check the SD card on the PC, copy large files very fast, directly modify files, works on linux and mac !

I have tested this on N8000 and it is working perfectly

mdalacu said:
Our tablet lacks the USB Mass Storage capability, also Note 2 lacks this also.
I have found this little gem app that works on Note 2, i hope that someone here will test this and report back.
It only works on external SD, but it is way better then MTP.
Here is the app thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, this app. I posted about this in September in this thread lol: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32103479#post32103479

Sorry, I have missed it.

Great! Thank you! It works like a charm!
Inviato dal mio GT-N8000 con Tapatalk 2

Another weakness in MTP is that if you are in a locked down environment with no admin/privileges to install devices MTP will not be detected. (You'll get the same nonsense with iOS as well)

has anyone been able to get this working with a ps3. I would like to be able to transfer things to my ps3.

So, no method exists that would allow the Note 10.1 to connect as UMS to Windows XP? and/or without the use of the inserted MicroSD?
I installed KIES but it tried to install like 3 versions of Net Framework and other garbage, so I removed it. There is no way I will use the KIES. I tried to use the driver that Kies installed along with the SAMSUNG_USB_Driver_for_Mobile_Phones.exe but no luck. I can't believe this is an issue.
I'm a bit of a novice with tablets/android and have searched a long time for a solution with no luck.

It only export the external sd card through UMS, the internal one it is impossible. For me, it works on XP x64 just fine.

Has anyone tried multi mount, i use it on my galaxy s to listen to music while i am mounted to the pc, works well but i think it a bit buggy cause i can't get my external sd card to mount but i don't know if that the rom cause it worked well on the previous rom, try it out multi mount
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Sent from a I9000 running JB Rom
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If I helped you hit thanks

mdalacu said:
It only export the external sd card through UMS, the internal one it is impossible. For me, it works on XP x64 just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. Thank you.

TheWerewolf said:
How is this better than MTP? I connect my Note and it shows up - I double click on it and it shows me a drive for the internal and external storage and you can drag file in and out of them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For example, how would you run a program like Recuva to scan for deleted files on my S3? Also, they say MTP i smuch slower.

critofur said:
For example, how would you run a program like Recuva to scan for deleted files on my S3? Also, they say MTP i smuch slower.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For recovery of deleted files, you can use Undelete for Root users straight from your phone!

mdalacu said:
Our tablet lacks the USB Mass Storage capability, also Note 2 lacks this also.
I have found this little gem app that works on Note 2, i hope that someone here will test this and report back.
It only works on external SD, but it is way better then MTP.
Here is the app thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank You for posting this!!! I have been sick of playing a crap shoot when I connect my note to my computer!!! :victory:

Someone please write a mass storage app for lg g2

Mass Storage availability would really make this phone complete for me. Is it that difficult? I have tried a bunch of other apps with no luck . I know Samsung wrote an App for their phones.

Danester said:
Mass Storage availability would really make this phone complete for me. Is it that difficult? I have tried a bunch of other apps with no luck . I know Samsung wrote an App for their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they did not. Some phones with external SD cards you can still access as UMS. No modern phone can you access the internal SD that way as the internal "sdcard" is just a subfolder of the /data partition. UMS requires the device to unmount from the phone to mount on the PC, and it just simply isn't going to work.
There are dozens of apps in the market to transfer files over wifi in various forms.. scp, smb, ftp, browser, etc..
Personally I use a scp server that will run as root so it can use port 22 and use rsync when I want to move large amounts of files around.

Danester said:
Mass Storage availability would really make this phone complete for me. Is it that difficult? I have tried a bunch of other apps with no luck . I know Samsung wrote an App for their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you want to use mass storage so much? if it is to transfer files to a mac, download AFT here...http://www.android.com/filetransfer/

I My old htc and earlier phones with android had mass storage. The reason i want it so bad is that my car has ford sync and with ums through usb, i can verbally select tracks i want played without looking at the phone. Bluetooth works but i have to look down at the phone to change songs. Also with old versions of android i could get the stereo sync system to read back my texts and i could verbally send texts also. It was awesome. Iphones work perfectly but i hate iphone. Android worked until icecream sandwich. Its a huge loss for people with stereo systems that have verbal command control across all makes of cars.
Sent from my LG-D803 using xda app-developers app

With HTC One X I could mount it from the recovery. But I guess G2 would not have that option. (One X doesn't have SD, it's internal memory like G2)

+1

khaytsus said:
No they did not. Some phones with external SD cards you can still access as UMS. No modern phone can you access the internal SD that way as the internal "sdcard" is just a subfolder of the /data partition. UMS requires the device to unmount from the phone to mount on the PC, and it just simply isn't going to work.
There are dozens of apps in the market to transfer files over wifi in various forms.. scp, smb, ftp, browser, etc..
Personally I use a scp server that will run as root so it can use port 22 and use rsync when I want to move large amounts of files around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are phones that do not support mass storage, such Xperia S or U, but there were apps written by XDA members that allowed me to use mass storage. Why there is no such app for G2?

+1 +1 +1

USB Mass Storage Mode?

OK, what Kit Kat ROMs have USB mass storage mode?
If a ROM does have it, exactly how/where is it enabled?
Either a ROM doesn't have it or if it does the dev hides it some place and requires digging through 100's of stupid pointless posts to maybe if you are lucky, find the answer.
I'm at the point with this USB mass storage B.S. that I'm ready to leave Android completely and get a flip phone. Whomever thought it was a good idea to remove it was an idiot and whomever signed off on it was even a bigger idiot.

Lokifish Marz said:
OK, what Kit Kat ROMs have USB mass storage mode?
If a ROM does have it, exactly how/where is it enabled?
Either a ROM doesn't have it or if it does the dev hides it some place and requires digging through 100's of stupid pointless posts to maybe if you are lucky, find the answer.
I'm at the point with this USB mass storage B.S. that I'm ready to leave Android completely and get a flip phone. Whomever thought it was a good idea to remove it was an idiot and whomever signed off on it was even a bigger idiot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MTP is absolutely terrible, completely half baked and totally unreliable.
Right now I just discovered that ChromeOS doesn't even support MTP... Google's OWN PRODUCT...
I'd like to know the answer as well.

I understand the frustrations but the problem with mass storage is that it surrenders all control of the internal storage to a PC not a problem when that's a different chip but on the n7 and most new smartphones its an emulated partition and giving over total control would mean that android cannot function at the same time. This was brought in to stop manufacturers using two separate chips giving you loads of "storage space" but very little application space. Its a work in progress and has many issues but its here to stay I don't think any ROMs will support USBMS as it not possible on a single chip without shutting down android.
Sent from my C5303 using xda app-developers app

LOL. In camera mode you have access to the "Pictures" folder and is readable by Windows and other OSes. All that needs to be done is duplicate the same process and direct it to a folder called "Storage" with full permissions for the folders contents. This essentially simulates USBMS. You can even redirect mounts to that folder so that apps see it as a storage area as well so things like map data and so on are put in the "Storage" folder.
I don't have the time to mess with this but it can be done and something almost exactly like this has been done before on almost every OS.

Lokifish Marz said:
LOL. In camera mode you have access to the "Pictures" folder and is readable by Windows and other OSes. All that needs to be done is duplicate the same process and direct it to a folder called "Storage" with full permissions for the folders contents. This essentially simulates USBMS. You can even redirect mounts to that folder so that apps see it as a storage area as well so things like map data and so on are put in the "Storage" folder.
I don't have the time to mess with this but it can be done and something almost exactly like this has been done before on almost every OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I imagine it can be done but it wouldn't be mass storage and would require apps to be compatible it may have been done on other systems but how much space should this storage folder be allocated because it would no longer be avalible to install apps. In camera mode android still retains control of the folder other os can read that folder but files must be copied off the device to be edited. It would be good if android could mount the SD card as mass storage.
Sent from my C5303 using xda app-developers app

No it would not technically be mass storage, thus the "simulated" comment. As far as other OSes, it's already been done to a point on android already via the simulated partition that's already in use. This has also bee done using third party apps to mount folders as virtual drives.
App compatibility, if the folder is used as mount point then it is transparent to the OS and the apps. This has been done for some time now using third party apps.
The folder size could have the same limitations that the storage area has already been limited to. If coded so that it is part of the boot process then everything outside of system apps would only see the virtual area. Kind of like what's being done right now.
Dual mount. This has been used with much success and allows for PC and Android access to the same storage area at the same time.