Database Users

Overclocking in Android - some questions and thoughts sharing

Hi all guys! I have a couple of questions and would like to hear some experiences and thoughts in general about overclocking in Android.
First a couple of more specific questions which I would like to have answered, if possible. If it's not possible, please give me your general thoughts anyway about overclock instead of moving to the next thread, please.
- Are there any kernels which allow overclocking beyond 1536 MHz?
- If so, did anybody try those frequencies? What was the result?
- Are there any people who for some reasons did NOT manage to have stable 1536 MHz?
- Are there any reliable reports of people frying their phones due to overclocking?
- Are there any easy ways to undervolt the CPU (at standard frequencies, not overclocked) in order to save some battery charge?
My very little OC experience is based on this: I have been running for some days a ROM based on a kernel which allowed OC up to 1536 MHz. I installed CPU Master Free, did some tests and found out, to my surprise, that the phone will run @1536 MHz without any noticeable issues. I never kept it at that frequency for more than 5 minutes I think, because I was afraid of excessive heat, but the phone never got really hot, just a bit warm. I ran some system benchmarks (Quadrant and another one which I can't recall right now) which stressed a bit the CPU and did not encounter any crashes. I also did this with performance governor which keeps the CPU constantly to the max frequency I think, and still no probs. Since everything works so fine and was that easy, I was wondering why don't everybody always run with the HD2 @1536 MHz. Is it only for battery issues? Please share your ideas about this and OC on the HD2 under Android in general.
Thanks.

The problem with overclocking isn't just overheating or too much power. With overclocking you are also increasing the say, amount of data being passed through the cpu. If the cpu's bus size isn't fast or big enough to handle it, it will ultimately slow down or malfunction.
So you should get the picture of overclocking now. Note however there are some safe speeds for overclocking.
Onto your next question as to why everyone doesn't overclock to the max speed. The reasons are: paranoia and safety of device
You have to know that not every chip is made exactly the same, they are modeled after the same design but are never made the same. So that mean whilst some people's phones may be able to handle extreme overclocking, like yours, others may not be able to, and malfunction/overheat. Malfunctioning like, cannot make phone calls, wifi/GPS doesn't work, etc.
So I hope this was informative.

Not everything you have said was new to me, but you were informative.
...although I would really be surprised to have issues with phone calls for instance caused by excessive overclocking...
Do you personally keep the HD2 overclocked?
Anybody else?

When I had my HD2, I rarely did so. Reason being is that I found no need to. The only times I did do so was to see if the phone actually was faster. In my results however I found no big difference so I didn't bother.

Well, the phone is indeed fast without OC, but you can feel the difference if you are performing some CPU intensive tasks. For example, unzipping a 200 MB ROM archive, or importing 1300 SMS from a backup. A temporary OC can save you maybe 1 minute or 30 secs, which aren't absolutely worth the time you spend learning to overclock the device, but never mind, even if you only saved 5 secs it's worth it for the satisfaction.

Ah I see your point. I was only looking in the perspective of simply tasks such as browsing internet/market, games, gallery.

Figure it this way. When you overclock a pc, (and if you're doing it safely/correctly) you have usually spent extra money on liquid cooling systems. Or at the very least, bigger fans, bigger heatsyncs, etc. Even with all that, you could very easily blow out a cpu or other component when you overclock.
Now, on a cell phone, you're running a MUCH higher risk. First off, there is NO extra cooling, and considering the size of our phones, and how thing they are, there's really no room for airflow. So while yes, it may work for you, in general I always say getting those couple extra frames per second out of your game are not worth the potential damage to the device.
Overclocking on actual computers has gotten much safer in the last few years, because the chip designers are putting more effort into keeping the chip cooler under load. Cell phones are not designed to overclock (even one as sweet as the hd2.)
Lastly, when overclocking a system (desktop), you usually change more than just the cpu clock speed. You'll usually have to adjust the voltage to compensate, and in some cases adjust memory timing as well as bus speed. None of this happens when you overclock on the hd2, all you do is change the clock speed.
It's not set in stone, but there's a very real possibility that you can do permanent damage to your device when overclocking. And, you may not notice the damage right away. Also keep in mind, these are mass produced cpu's, and there are slight variations in each chip. (Hence why some people can overclock higher and keep stability, while some phones with the same chip get picky if you even overclock 10mhz )
I've never seen the point in overclocking the hd2, you really don't get any real world speed out of it, it's a placebo at best. (And please don't start showing me or quoting benchmarks, they're useless, and extremely easy to make little changes in the roms to artificially boost benchmark scores.)
Edit: For more info, because I'm tired of typing, check these links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overclocking
http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/overclocking.asp

Great info mstrk242,
Thank you!

All benchmark info is skewed. Tried 1500mhz and the only app I noticed a difference on was gun bros. A new more efficient version of rom made it run fine at 998mhz. Not worth the extra wear and tear on your device. Simply changing things like your launcher can have larger effects.
Sent from my HyperDroid powered HD2!

Questions on RAM overclocking

Does anyone who has looked at the kernel source know if we will be able to do RAM overclocking? We know from the whitepaper that playing games on the resolution that the N10 has will take 10+ gigabytes per second of bandwidth so a memory OC should be able to help out considerably, especially if overclocking the GPU as well.
Additionally, how come we never see an area in the tunables where we can tweak timings? All we ever see is voltage and frequency, but the memory has to have primary and subtimings as well, just like all regular computer memory. If someone could make the timings able to be modified we might be able to get some series bandwidth increases out of these.
Oh and one last thing, why dont we ever see memory voltage setting either? We have core, gpu, and video decoding core voltages but being able to tweak memory voltage would be a great addition too. We already know that the Exynos 5 dual uses low power 1.35v DDR3 memory. If Samsung's other LP 1.35v DDR3 chips are any indication, these things have MASSIVE overclock potential. I have seen people running them up over 2400MHz!

bump since we have device support now. Any kernels dev's want to look into the possibility of these things?

I too would be very interested in seeing some RAM overclocking/voltage tweaking; I believe it could open up a lot of potential

If a kernel gets developed that can accomplish this I'll go to the store and buy a n10 that very same day.
Right now I'll show patience and wait to read true reviews from actual users.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

I'm not overclocking my device, in fact if anything i'll under volt it. If I could get a 3rd party accidental warranty, it would be a whole different story.

Do you overclock your N7?

Do you?
Do you keep it overckocked for a longer period, permanently, or just when/while you need it? How much (exact frequencies would be cool) I'm thinking of OCing mine (both CPU and GPU) since some games like NOVA 3 lag on occasions but not sure how safe/advisable it is.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

I don't think it's needed. I've heard that OC won't help much with gaming, but you can definitely try

I don't yet - I might later. My N7 is still less than a month old.
The device manufacturers (e.g. Asus in this case) have motivations to "not leave anything on the table" when it comes to performance. So, you have to ask yourself - why would they purposely configure things to go slowly?
After all, they need to compete with other handset/tablet manufacturers, who are each in turn free to go out and buy the exact same Tegra SoC (processor) from Nvidia.
At the same time, they know that they will manufacture millions of units, and they want to hold down their product outgoing defect levels and in-the-field product reliability problems to an acceptable level. If they don't keep malfunctions and product infant mortality down to a fraction of a percent, they will suffer huge brand name erosion problems. And that will affect not only sales of the current product, but future products too.
That means that they have to choose a conservative set of operating points which will work for 99+ % of all customer units manufactured across all temperature, voltage, and clock speed ranges. (BTW, Note that Asus didn't write the kernel EDP & thermal protection code - Nvidia did; that suggests that all the device manufacturers take their operating envelope from Nvidia; they really don't even want to know where Nvidia got their numbers)
Some folks take this to mean that the vast majority of units sold can operate safely at higher speeds, higher temperatures, or lower voltages, given that the "as shipped" configuration will allow "weak" or "slow" units to operate correctly.
But look, it's not as if amateurs - hacking kernels in their spare time - have better informed opinions or data about what will work or won't work well across all units. Simply put, they don't know what the statistical test properties of processors coming from the foundry are - and certainly can't tell you what the results will be for an individual unit. They are usually smart folks - but operating completely in the dark in regards to those matters.
About the only thing which can be said in a general way is that as you progressively increase the clock speed, or progressively weaken the thermal regulation, or progressively decrease the cpu core voltage stepping, your chances of having a problem with any given unit (yours) increase. A "problem" might be (1) logic errors which lead to immediate system crashes or hangs, (2) logic errors (in data paths) that lead to data corruption without a crash or (3) permanent hardware failure (usually because of thermal excursions).
Is that "safe"?
Depends on your definition of "safe". If you only use the device for entertainment purposes, "safe" might mean "the hardware won't burn up in the next 2-3 years". Look over in any of the kernel threads - you'll see folks who are not too alarmed about their device freezing or spontaneously rebooting. (They don't like it, but it doesn't stop them from flashing dev kernels).
If you are using the device for work or professional purposes - for instance generating or editing work product - then "safe" might mean "my files on the device or files transiting to and from the cloud won't get corrupted", or "I don't want a spontaneous kernel crash of the device to cascade into a bricked device and unrecoverable files". For this person, the risks are quite a bit higher.
No doubt some tool will come in here and say "I've been overclocking to X Ghz for months now without a problem!" - as if that were somehow a proof of how somebody else's device will behave. It may well be completely true - but a demonstration on a single device says absolutely nothing about how someone else's device will behave. Even Nvidia can't do that.
There's a lot of pretty wild stuff going on in some of the dev kernels. The data that exists as a form of positive validation for these kernels is a handful of people saying "my device didn't crash". That's pretty far removed from the rigorous testing performed by Nvidia (98+% fault path coverage on statistically significant samples of devices over temperature, voltage, and frequency on multi-million dollar test equipment.)
good luck!
PS My phone has it's Fmax OC'ed by 40% from the factory value for more than 2 years. That's not a proof of anything really - just to point out that I'm not anti-OC'ing. Just trying to say - nobody can provide you any assurances that things will go swimmingly on your device at a given operating point. It's up to you to decide whether you should regard it as "risky".

Wow thanks for your educational response, I learned something. Great post! I will see if I will over clock it or not since I can play with no problems at all, it is just that it hics up when there is too much stuff around. Thanks again!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

With the proper kernel its really not needed. Havent really seen any difference,aside from benchmark scores(which can be achieved without oc'ing)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app

Yes, I run mine at 1.6 peak.
I've come to the Android world from the iOS world - the world of the iPhone, the iPad, etc.
One thing they're all brilliant at is responsive UI. The UI, when you tap it, responds. Android, prior to 4.1, didn't.
Android, with 4.1 and 4.2, does. Mostly.
You can still do better. I'm running an undervolted, overclocked M-Kernel, with TouchDemand governor, pushing to 2 G-cores on touch events.
It's nice and buttery, and renders complex PDF files far faster than stock when the cores peak at 1.6.
I can't run sustained at 1.6 under full load - it thermal throttles with 4 cores at 100% load. But I can get the peak performance for burst demands like page rendering, and I'm still quite efficient on battery.
There's no downside to running at higher frequencies as long as you're below stock voltages. Less heat, more performance.
If you start pushing the voltages past spec, yeah, you're likely into "shortening the lifespan." But if you can clock it up, and keep the voltages less than the stock kernel, there's really not much downside. And the upside is improved page rendering, improved PDF rendering, etc.
Gaming performance isn't boosted that much as most games aren't CPU bound. That said, I don't game. So... *shrug*.

Bitweasil said:
I can't run sustained at 1.6 under full load - it thermal throttles with 4 cores at 100% load.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Bitweasil
Kinda curious about something (OP, allow me a slight thread-jack!).
in an adb shell, run this loop:
# cd /sys/kernel/debug/tegra_thermal
# while [ 1 ] ; do
> sleep 1
> cat temp_tj
> done
and then run your "full load".
What temperature rise and peak temperature do you see? Are you really hitting the 95C throttle, or are you using a kernel where that is altered?
I can generate (w/ a mutli-threaded native proggy, 6 threads running tight integer loops) only about a 25C rise, and since the "TJ" in mine idles around 40C, I get nowhere near the default throttle temp. But I am using a stock kernel, so it immediately backs off to 1.2 Ghz when multicore comes on line.
Same sort of thing with Antutu or OpenGL benchmark suites (the latter of which runs for 12 minutes) - I barely crack 60C with the stock kernel.
?
bftb0

The kernel I'm using throttles around 70C.
I can't hit that at 1200 or 1300 - just above that I can exceed the temps.
I certainly haven't seen 95C.
M-Kernel throttles down to 1400 above 70C, which will occasionally get above 70C at 1400, but not by much.

Bitweasil said:
The kernel I'm using throttles around 70C.
I can't hit that at 1200 or 1300 - just above that I can exceed the temps.
I certainly haven't seen 95C.
M-Kernel throttles down to 1400 above 70C, which will occasionally get above 70C at 1400, but not by much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Any particular workload that does this, or is the throttle pretty easy to hit with arbitrary long-running loads?

Odp: Do you overclock your N7?
I'll never OC a quadcore phone/tablet, I'm not stupid. This is enough for me.
Sent from my BMW E32 using XDA App

I've over clocked my phone, but not my N7. I've got a Galaxy Ace with a single core 800MHz processor OC'd to 900+. The N7 with its quad core 1.3GHz is more than enough for doing what I need it to do. Using franco.Kernel and everything is smooth and lag-free. No need for me to overclock
Sent From My Awesome AOSPA3.+/franco.Kernel Powered Nexus 7 With XDA Premium

Impossible to do so can't even get root but did manage to unlock the bootloader
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

CuttyCZ said:
I don't think it's needed. I've heard that OC won't help much with gaming, but you can definitely try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a big OC'er, but I do see a difference in some games when I OC the GPU. It really depends on the game and what is the performance bottleneck. If the app is not Kernel bound than an OC won't make much difference. Must games are I/O and GPU bound.
Sent from my N7 using XDA Premium
Dirty AOKP 3.5 <&> m-kernel+ a34(t.10)

I've overclocked all of my devices since my first HTC hero. I really don't see a big deal with hardware life.
I know that this n7 runs games better at 1.6ghz than at 1.3ghz.
First thing I do when I get a new device is swap recovery and install aokp with the latest and greatest development kernel. Isn't that why all this great development exists? For us to make our devices better and faster? I think so. I'd recommend aokp and m-kernel to every nexus 7 owner. I wish more people would try non-stock.

scottx . said:
I've overclocked all of my devices since my first HTC hero. I really don't see a big deal with hardware life.
I know that this n7 runs games better at 1.6ghz than at 1.3ghz.
First thing I do when I get a new device is swap recovery and install aokp with the latest and greatest development kernel. Isn't that why all this great development exists? For us to make our devices better and faster? I think so. I'd recommend aokp and m-kernel to every nexus 7 owner. I wish more people would try non-stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean the pub builds of AOKP? Or Dirty AOKP
Ty

bftb0 said:
Thanks. Any particular workload that does this, or is the throttle pretty easy to hit with arbitrary long-running loads?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stability Test will do it reliably. Other workloads don't tend to run long enough to trigger it that I've seen.
And why is a quadcore magically "not to be overclocked"? Single threaded performance is still a major bottleneck.

Bitweasil said:
Stability Test will do it reliably. Other workloads don't tend to run long enough to trigger it that I've seen.
And why is a quadcore magically "not to be overclocked"? Single threaded performance is still a major bottleneck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Bitweasil,
I fooled around a little more with my horrid little threaded cpu-blaster code. Combined simultaneously with something gpu-intensive such as the OpenGL ES benchmark (which runs for 10-12 minutes), I observed peak temps (Tj) of about 83C with the stock kernel. That's a ridiculous load, though. I can go back and repeat the test, but from 40C it probably takes several minutes to get there. No complaints about anything in the kernel logs other than the EDP down-clocking, but that happens just as soon as the second cpu comes on line, irrespective of temperature. With either of the CPU-only or GPU-only stressors, the highest I saw was a little over 70C. (But, I don't live in the tropics!)
To your question - I don't think there is much risk of immediate hardware damage, so long as bugs don't creep into throttling code, or kernel bugs don't cause a flaw that prevents the throttling or down-clocking code from being serviced while the device is running in a "performance" condition. And long-term reliability problems will be no worse if the cumulative temperature excursions of the device are not higher than what than what they would be using stock configurations.
The reason that core voltages are stepped up at higher clock rates (& more cores online) is to preserve both logic and timing closure margins across *all possible paths* in the processor. More cores running means that the power rails inside the SoC package are noisier - so logic levels are a bit more uncertain, and faster clocking means there is less time available per clock for logic levels to stabilize before data gets latched.
Well, Nvidia has reasons for setting their envelope the way they do - not because of device damage considerations, but because they expect to have a pretty small fraction of devices that will experience timing faults *anywhere along millions of logic paths* under all reasonable operating conditions. Reducing the margin, whether by undervolting at high frequencies, or increasing max frequencies, or allowing more cores to run at peak frequencies will certainly increase the fraction of devices that experience logic failures along at least one path (out of millions!). Whether or not OC'ing will work correctly on an individual device can not be predicted in advance; the only thing that Nvidia can estimate is a statistical quantity - about what percent of devices will experience logic faults under a given operating conditon.
Different users will have different tolerance for faults. A gamer might have very high tolerance for random reboots, lockups, file system corruption, et cetera. Different story if you are composing a long email to your boss under deadline and your unit suddenly turns upside down.
No doubt there (theoretically) exists an overclocking implementation where 50% of all devices would have a logic failure within (say) 1 day of operation. That kind of situation would be readily detected in a small number of forum reports. But what about if it were a 95%/5% situation? One out of twenty dudes report a problem, and it is dismissed with some crazy recommendation such as "have you tried re-flashing your ROM?". And fault probability accumulates with time, especially when the testing loads have very poor path coverage. 5% failure over one day will be higher over a 30 day period - potentially much higher.
That's the crux of the matter. Processor companies spend as much as 50% of their per-device engineering budgets on test development. In some cases they actually design & build a second companion processor (that rivals the complexity of the first!) whose only function is to act as a test engine for the processor that will be shipped. Achieving decent test coverage is a non-trivial problem, and it is generally attacked with extremely disciplined testing over temperature/voltage/frequency with statistically significant numbers of devices - using test-vector sets (& internal test generators) that are known to provide a high level of path coverage. The data that comes from random ad-hoc reports on forums from dudes running random applications in an undisciplined way on their OC'ed units is simply not comparable. (Even "stressor" apps have very poor path coverage).
But, as I said, different folks have different tolerance for risk. Random data corruption is acceptable if the unit in question has nothing on it of value.
I poked my head in the M-kernel thread the other day; I thought I saw a reference to "two units fried" (possibly even one belonging to the dev?). I assume you are following that thread ... did I misinterpret that?
cheers

I don't disagree.
But, I'd argue that the stock speeds/voltages/etc are designed for the 120% case - they're supposed to work for about 120% of shipped chips. In other words, regardless of conditions, the stock clocks/voltages need to be reliable, with a nice margin on top.
Statistically, most of the chips will be much better than this, and that's the headroom overclocking plays in.
I totally agree that you eventually will get some logic errors, somewhere, at some point. But there's a lot of headroom in most devices/chips before you get to that point.
My use cases are heavily bursty. I'll do complex PDF rendering on the CPU for a second or two, then it goes back to sleep while I read the page. For this type of use, I'm quite comfortable with having pushed clocks hard. For sustained gaming, I'd run it lower, though I don't really game.

T4 performance at different temperature

Hi,
This is weird, hoping someone knows more about this then me?
First benchmark video I did ran around 19k
I ran it again just now after playing GTA VC on high settings with no frame limit for 1 hour and ran the test again and got 31k
Still playing GTA VC for another hour and ran it again, came in at 32k
I've upgraded it to the latest firmware, but not rooted it.
The unit is warmish, but not hot.

gwaldo said:
Hi,
This is weird, hoping someone knows more about this then me?
First benchmark video I did ran around 19k
I ran it again just now after playing GTA VC on high settings with no frame limit for 1 hour and ran the test again and got 31k
Still playing GTA VC for another hour and ran it again, came in at 32k
I've upgraded it to the latest firmware, but not rooted it.
The unit is warmish, but not hot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mmm never trust benchmark they have never been a real source of information about how powerfull a tegra can be.
But yes cpu gpu work well when they hot less when cold or burned

gwaldo said:
Hi,
This is weird, hoping someone knows more about this then me?
First benchmark video I did ran around 19k
I ran it again just now after playing GTA VC on high settings with no frame limit for 1 hour and ran the test again and got 31k
Still playing GTA VC for another hour and ran it again, came in at 32k
I've upgraded it to the latest firmware, but not rooted it.
The unit is warmish, but not hot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would run counter intuitive to everything I learned in EE315.

Domomojo said:
That would run counter intuitive to everything I learned in EE315.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have thought the same, but after thinking about it @Dead-neM is right, it's as a mobile processor it makes some sense to have your GPU's being limited when running cool to save battery, it must have a thermostat like a car which opens up when warm :laugh:
I'm assuming the shield doesn't throttle it's T4 because it has a fan and ultimately why it performs better.
I don't think it runs very hot, but I have mine on it's side, so the heat just raises out of it.
@Mad Catz Nate @Mad Catz Rich
Any way to get throttling removed or by-passed?
The difference is noticeable on demanding games.

gwaldo said:
I would have thought the same, but after thinking about it @Dead-neM is right, it's as a mobile processor it makes some sense to have your GPU's being limited when running cool to save battery, it must have a thermostat like a car which opens up when warm :laugh:
I'm assuming the shield doesn't throttle it's T4 because it has a fan and ultimately why it performs better.
I don't think it runs very hot, but I have mine on it's side, so the heat just raises out of it.
@Mad Catz Nate @Mad Catz Rich
Any way to get throttling removed or by-passed?
The difference is noticeable on demanding games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup Nvidia device stabilisation or tegra service should act like this too reduce hight temperature and yes with some app you can know the temperature of your cpu
There is 2 tegra 4 type if i'm right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra
But they say that the mojo and shield have the same

gwaldo said:
Any way to get throttling removed or by-passed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're rooted, you can set the CPU governor to "performance". That'll fix the clock rate to the rate, you set as max.

scorpio16v said:
If you're rooted, you can set the CPU governor to "performance". That'll fix the clock rate to the rate, you set as max.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, true.
But it shouldn't need rooting.. it's a console, it shouldn't be downgrading performance while it's being used.. ie games?
There's no battery, nobody is touching it, so if it runs a bit warm.. what's the big deal?

It's a built-in aspect of the Tegra SoC and is there to prevent it cooking itself. However, there's a massive heatsink in M.O.J.O. which prevents this from happening - in all our tests the SoC never gets near the temperature where it will start throttling performance. Bear in mind that those tests are run at an ambient temperature of 40 degrees centigrade so you're extremely unlikely to get to a point where it's being throttled, although Gwaldo is in Australia I believe and they've had some pretty roasting temperatures recently!
Shield has a slightly faster version of the T4 in it - hence clock speed of 1.9GHz against the 1.8GHz in M.O.J.O..

Mad Catz Rich said:
It's a built-in aspect of the Tegra SoC and is there to prevent it cooking itself. However, there's a massive heatsink in M.O.J.O. which prevents this from happening - in all our tests the SoC never gets near the temperature where it will start throttling performance. Bear in mind that those tests are run at an ambient temperature of 40 degrees centigrade so you're extremely unlikely to get to a point where it's being throttled, although Gwaldo is in Australia I believe and they've had some pretty roasting temperatures recently!
Shield has a slightly faster version of the T4 in it - hence clock speed of 1.9GHz against the 1.8GHz in M.O.J.O..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey MC Rich,
I think you miss read my 1st post.
I'm not talking about overheating, the MOJO's runs warm after hours of hammering hardcore AAA gaming out! :laugh:
The issue is that, from the test I have done (as shown on the first post), it's throated when cool/cold
ie do a benchmark on a cold start, then hammer it until it gets warm, then do another benchmark.
Antutu reported 19k on a cold start to 32k when warm
I would expect 32k from the cold start right?
I assume this is related to a battery/power saving feature in the kernel, which doesn't make sense because there's no battery :laugh:
PS: Melbourne ain't so hot :crying:

I'm not aware of any battery saving features for when the SoC is cold! That certainly wouldn't make any sense.
Can't replicate that here either - from cold we get the usual 31-32K.

Mad Catz Rich said:
I'm not aware of any battery saving features for when the SoC is cold! That certainly wouldn't make any sense.
Can't replicate that here either - from cold we get the usual 31-32K.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool thanks,
Must be something I've changed in the setting or installed, I'll figure it out and post back.

gwaldo said:
Cool thanks,
Must be something I've changed in the setting or installed, I'll figure it out and post back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried replicating the 19k result on cold, and it doesn't
Strange, only thing I can think is that I got the 19k on cold using the previous firmware.
Anyway.. all good:good:

Beginner's guide to building a PC: everything you know and don't already know!

When I saw the topic of a beginner's guide to building a PC, I jumped for it because I remember building my first PC. It actually wasn't nearly as long ago as you'd think. I also remember how clueless I was. Obviously, I know about everything that goes inside of a computer, but once I was faced with the task of putting all of that together, I was like a deer in headlights.
Prerequisites​Let's start off with a list of everything that you're going to need:
CPU
Thermal paste
Motherboard
CPU cooler
Case
Power supply
RAM
Storage
GPU (optional unless you have an Intel F-series processor)
An operating system
And then, of course, don't forget about the necessary peripherals:
Monitor
Keyboard
Mouse
Speakers
Webcam
External peripherals are beyond the scope of this post, but take note of what you need, keeping in mind that the PC you're building doesn't have the built-in parts of an all-in-one PC, like a microphone, speakers, and a webcam.
How to get started or: Pick a CPU​First of all, and I cannot stress this enough, PCPartPicker is your friend. The site lets you plug in a list of parts that you're planning on using and it will tell you if there are any compatibility issues. It's super useful. In fact, even if you know that your parts should be good to go, run them through PCPartPicker anyway just to make sure.
The other key thing you need to do when getting started is to pick a CPU. This is an important first step because you're pretty much building out the PC around this choice. There aren't any motherboards that support both Intel and AMD CPUs.
Choosing between AMD and Intel (see, I didn't put the same company first twice in a row so you guys can't yell at me) is the first step. Once you do that, you can decide what kind of performance that you need. I wrote a guide to Intel CPUs and what the product names mean. With AMD, you have Ryzen 3, Ryzen 5, Ryzen 7, and Ryzen 9, and performance goes according to how high that number is. The same goes with Intel and the Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, and Core i9.
Intel has a bunch of different suffixes. If there isn't one, it's a standard 65W desktop processor, so something like a Core i5-11600 is pretty mainstream. Add a K and it's now a 125W processor that's unlocked for overclocking. And as mentioned above, an F means that it does not have integrated graphics, so you'll need a graphics card.
Pick a motherboard, or a case, or both​Next, you have to pick a motherboard and a case. I'm including both in this section because it's a matter of priorities. Do you want a case that fits your motherboard or a motherboard that fits your case? If you already know what case you want to use, start there and find motherboards that work. If not, start with a motherboard that has what you want.
First, let's cut your motherboard choices in half. If you're using AMD Ryzen, you need an AM4 socket. In you're using Intel 10th- or 11th-gen, you need an LGA 1200 socket. Note that with Intel, 12th-gen will use a new socket, so this is not upgradeable.
Next, you have to pick the size of your motherboard, and this is where compatibility with the case comes in. There's eATX, ATX, mATX, and mini-ITX, all in size order. This very much comes down to how big of a PC you want to build. Looking for something that's super-small and can hide behind your monitor? That's where mini-ITX comes in. Want something big and beefy that's going to have some serious power and thermals? Go for eATX.
When picking a case, it will tell you what size board it can fit. Obviously, the CPU, motherboard, and case choices go hand in hand.
Now that you've narrowed down your motherboard choices to the socket and the size, you're in good shape. It's time to start looking at ports, PCIe slots, and more. Make sure that you've got the ports to plug in what you need and the latest USB standard. Make sure you've got enough memory slots. A big one is the graphics card you want to use. Make sure there's room for it not only on the board, but in the case.
Pick a CPU cooler and thermal paste​Now, it's time to figure out how you're going to keep that CPU cool. Here's the bottom line. The more your CPU heats up, the worse the performance gets. The cooler you can keep it, the more it can sustain peak performance.
The first thing that you have to choose between is air cooling and liquid cooling, and there are pros and cons to each. Air coolers can be easier to install and more cost-effective, but if you want a good one, they take up a lot of space. Liquid cooling can be better if you plan on doing a lot of overclocking.
Personally, I'm a big fan of air coolers from Noctua. I use a Noctua NH-U12A, which is not only designed to be one of the best air coolers around, but it's quiet too.
So, after you decide if you want liquid or air cooling, you then have to looking at how cool it keeps the CPU and also how much noise it makes. That noise is important.
Then there's the thermal paste, which sits between the CPU and the CPU cooler. The more evenly it's applied, the better the cooling. Many CPU coolers, like the one I mentioned above from Noctua, come with thermal paste. You can always shop around though. A tube of thermal paste costs under $10, so using the best one there is should be an easy way to keep your CPU cool.
Pick a power supply and a GPU​As you can see, a lot of these parts go hand in hand. In fact, once you've put this all together, you'll find that they all go hand in hand. But we can't talk about the power supply without picking a GPU.
Picking a GPU is optional. Like I said, you might want a simple productivity machine with a Core i5 and integrated graphics. You also might want a gaming rig with an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090. And then there's everything in-between.
With that in mind, you need to pick a power supply. This is an area that you'd definitely be well-off to use PCPartPicker for. It will tell you the wattage of all of the parts you've picked so far, and then tell you if there are any compatibility issues with you pick a power supply. I'd suggest picking one with plenty of wattage to spare so you can upgrade down the line.
Another thing is that you should definitely get a modular PSU (power supply unit). That means that the power cables aren't attached to the PSU itself. You can add cables as you need to, and since you're a builder now, you're probably going to need to at some point.
The other thing that's important is efficiency. You'll see an 80 PLUS rating that can be Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, or Titanium. This is important, because it's based on how much power is lost due to heat.
RAM, storage, and OS​If you've made it this far, you're in good shape. This is the easy part.
With RAM, you want more, and you want faster. It's that simple. You can also look up how fast of memory your CPU supports and go for that. The same goes for storage. An M.2 SSD is the way to go if you can, but there are also SATA SSDs. You can get an HDD if you're on a really tight budget, but I don't recommend it.
As far as the OS goes, it's between Windows and Linux. Windows costs money; Linux doesn't. I'm not really here to tell you which one you should go for.
Putting it all together​Alright, you've got all of your parts and you're ready to build your dream PC! It's the second-most exciting feeling behind the first boot.
Most of this is going to be about plugging things in where they fit, but sadly, it's not that simple. You need to start working through the manuals that came with your motherboard and your case. Those are going to tell you exactly what to plug in where, and most of it is fairly straightforward. There are few things that will actually break if you do them wrong.
The one thing that will break if you do it wrong is installing the CPU in the motherboard. It's important not to apply any unnecessary pressure when doing this because you could bend the pins on the chip or the board (depending on who made the CPU). Damage one of those and you've got some very expensive paperweights very quickly. To be clear, there's nothing to be afraid of here and it's very easy to do. Practice some healthy caution and you'll be fine.
Installing the motherboard in the case is something you'll need to follow instructions to do, which is fine, as it's easy enough. Once it's screwed into place, there will be several cables in the case that have to plug into the board. These will be for fans built into the case, for additional USB ports, and so on.
The other thing you'll have to install in the case is the PSU. Read the instructions and make sure the fan in the PSU is facing the right way. This is not something that you want to do incorrectly. There are a few cables to plug into the case and the board. Once the GPU is installed, you'll have to plug that in too.
Next, you'll probably be installing the CPU cooler. Make sure to apply thermal paste before you do. A pea-sized dot right in the middle of the CPU will do it. Do your best to bring the cooler directly down on the CPU, rather than doing it from an angle. This will spread it evenly across the chip.
Obviously, the graphics card, the storage, and RAM can fit into their respective slot. Note that for most boards, if you have four RAM slots and you only have two RAM sticks, you're better off separating them by one slot for dual-channel memory.
Once that's all done, you should be ready to plug it in and boot it up. You might not want to close the case on first-run, so you can make sure all of the fans are spinning. You can plug your USB drive with the OS into a USB port and boot into it to install the operating system.
Something went wrong!​Well, you've made it this far and now something doesn't work. Isn't that always the way it goes?
The most common problem is probably that you pressed the power button and nothing happened. After all, if the thing that went wrong is that you broke something, you should just buy a new one.
If it's not booting, now it's time to start checking cables. Make sure that everything is plugged in securely, particularly the CPU cooler. Make sure that the PSU cables are plugged in at both ends. If there were any steps you weren't sure about, such as if you plugged something in in the right spot, revisit it.
If you just can't figure it out, come back here and ask for help.

Question @therichwoods --- I'm an extremely heavy user of Chrome. I'm talking dozens of tabs open at all times in multiple windows. I assume I'm going to want to maximize my RAM to take full advantage? Or is CPU/GPU also important in my case?

svetius said:
Question @therichwoods --- I'm an extremely heavy user of Chrome. I'm talking dozens of tabs open at all times in multiple windows. I assume I'm going to want to maximize my RAM to take full advantage? Or is CPU/GPU also important in my case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TBH CPU is always important. But RAM should definitely be a priority.

Hi
Just upgraded my complete system from an AMD FX8350 with 32gb Ram to a Ryzen 5 3600 with 32gb ram. Currently using my old HD7870 Graphics cards in Crossfire but as these are now nine years old am looking to upgrade to a more recent card(s) bearing in mind that I am a pensioner and it has taken me a year to gather new, system, what would you recommend in Graphics cards for this build.
Motherboard is an MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, Ram is Corsair DDR4 2666 4x8Gb. TIA

Stransky said:
Hi
Just upgraded my complete system from an AMD FX8350 with 32gb Ram to a Ryzen 5 3600 with 32gb ram. Currently using my old HD7870 Graphics cards in Crossfire but as these are now nine years old am looking to upgrade to a more recent card(s) bearing in mind that I am a pensioner and it has taken me a year to gather new, system, what would you recommend in Graphics cards for this build.
Motherboard is an MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, Ram is Corsair DDR4 2666 4x8Gb. TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That really depends what you want to do with your graphics card. Looking for a GTX1060/1660 might be a good idea, I had the latter one and you can play a lot of recent games in high settings with your ryzen.
Keep in mind buying a graphics card nowadays is REALLY expensive, even used ones, when you can get one. New ones are sold over the recommended manufacturer prices due to the mining scene and Corona!

Stransky said:
Hi
Just upgraded my complete system from an AMD FX8350 with 32gb Ram to a Ryzen 5 3600 with 32gb ram. Currently using my old HD7870 Graphics cards in Crossfire but as these are now nine years old am looking to upgrade to a more recent card(s) bearing in mind that I am a pensioner and it has taken me a year to gather new, system, what would you recommend in Graphics cards for this build.
Motherboard is an MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, Ram is Corsair DDR4 2666 4x8Gb. TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should've opted for ram with xmp since ryzen benefit the most from faster ram. I'm currently using aorus 3200mhz 2x8gb kit with xmp enabled and it's better compared to it's stock settings.

Insanenity said:
You should've opted for ram with xmp since ryzen benefit the most from faster ram. I'm currently using aorus 3200mhz 2x8gb kit with xmp enabled and it's better compared to it's stock settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's XMP?

svetius said:
What's XMP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XMP (Extreme Memory Profiles) is a technology that allows you to change memory settings by selecting a different profile, which takes advantage of higher than standard memory speeds. Simply stated, XMP is the "easy button" of RAM overclocking, as manual RAM overclocking can be an unnecessary headache!

svetius said:
What's XMP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RAM over 2400Mhz is overclocked. X.M.P is just a system to overclock your ram. It's standard now. Personally I wouldn't bother with anything over 3600Mhz as it gets too pricey for the performance. Go no lower than 2666, try for 3200 (this tends to be the cheaper one anyways). I believe you will need to enable X.M.P in your uefi when you install it otherwise you'll just be running 2400. Like Insanenity said, it's just a 1 click setup so there's no fuss.
If you're not focused on gaming; while 16GB is fine, if you find a 32GB kit in your budget than definitely get it. Get a fair CPU with over 6 cores. (so ryzen).
LTT just did a video on something that might interest you.
This could be a good option for your productivity build as it's bang for buck. But if you have the budget for R7 5000's than just go for that.
Tldr: Chrome is a ram and cpu whore, use firefox...
I'm kidding, invest in CPU and RAM more than others if chrome is your concern.
p.s. Feel free to ask questions

strongst said:
That really depends what you want to do with your graphics card. Looking for a GTX1060/1660 might be a good idea, I had the latter one and you can play a lot of recent games in high settings with your ryzen.
Keep in mind buying a graphics card nowadays is REALLY expensive, even used ones, when you can get one. New ones are sold over the recommended manufacturer prices due to the mining scene and Corona!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply. Will just have to hang on to Current cards and hope prices drop in the near future on the GTX 1060/1660 cards. Too expensive for me ATM even second hand

Stransky said:
Thanks for the reply. Will just have to hang on to Current cards and hope prices drop in the near future on the GTX 1060/1660 cards. Too expensive for me ATM even second hand
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, unfortunately the prices are beyond the reality... If the bitcoin hype decreases, there might be a chance back to reality

strongst said:
Yeah, unfortunately the prices are beyond the reality... If the bitcoin hype decreases, there might be a chance back to reality
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just caught a news story headline that 30-Series cards will be available in stores, soon at reasonable prices soon - as BTC drops below 30K this morning....

HipKat said:
I just caught a news story headline that 30-Series cards will be available in stores, soon at reasonable prices soon - as BTC drops below 30K this morning....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily I got my 3060TI in 2020 for a low price, now it costs 50-80% more

strongst said:
Luckily I got my 3060TI in 2020 for a low price, now it costs 50-80% more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked and Best Buy has it for $399. Less than I paid for my 1080 2 years ago

HipKat said:
I looked and Best Buy has it for $399. Less than I paid for my 1080 2 years ago
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In stock for 399? Surely out of stock, otherwise it must be a mistake Sounds like the MSRP for the Founders Edition.

strongst said:
In stock for 399? Surely out of stock, otherwise it must be a mistake Sounds like the MSRP for the Founders Edition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll go look again when I get a break, but I'm pretty sure you're correct about it being the founders edition