They are not horrible but they are not smooth as glass either. I know the simple answer is they are not optimized for tegra 3, but what does that actually mean? What I'm getting at is I'm used to the pc world of things. Let's say when doom 3 came out and my system could barely muster 25 fps on it. Well, 3 years later when I get a new kick-ass machine, it can crank out 60+ in doom 3 without breaking a sweat and doesn't need to be 'optimized' for my new card. It's opengl compatible so it's good to go.
I use doom 3 as an example because it's opengl as are android based games. But even on the direct x side, say batman arkham asylum/city. If your card is dx 11 capable you get some additional effects but for the most part the faster your card the more fps/higher res you can run it at, again no optimizations required. Yes sometimes patches are needed (I'm looking at you ATI), but that's dealing with bugs.
It's rare that a newer card would have performance issues that an older card wouldn't with the same game. Rarely there would be an issue like a game doesn't vsync properly and runs too fast or maybe crashes and needs a patch, but they never actually need to be optimized for a specific card/chipset.
So if these games are opengl based, what does that actually mean here? And say they release new versions that are tegra 3 optimized (and charge again?!) say two years down the line when some other chipset is popular, would they yet again need to be optimized?
I thought the tegra 3 is one of if not the fastest video chipsets for android (and from what I've read it is) but it's disappointing to see some games not perform well and get the reason 'not optimized'. Not really complaining, but would like to understand how this works behind the scenes and will it continue to be an issue with future chipsets.
this is pure speculation, as i have little knowledge with this sort of thing, but maybe the games are not making use of the 4 cores at all, and only seeing the companion core. or maybe just the companion core, and one other.
I've both games on mine, but they run like butter.
My os is rooted stock
Related
Hi guys,
can someone tell me if anyone has posted some video showing how good are the graphical performances under froyo with games like Asphalt 5 or similar.
Maybe someone has already found a comparison...
You know the benchmark are only numbers, but I need to know how these numbers are applied in the real use
ye, I also want to know the graphical perdormance of desire under the 2.2. Because Asphalt 5 get little stuck in the 2.1.
Asphalt 5 won't get any better, it's a very dirty port from the iphone version to Android by Gameloft... they didn't spend enough time on it.
sruon said:
Asphalt 5 won't get any better, it's a very dirty port from the iphone version to Android by Gameloft... they didn't spend enough time on it.
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Click to collapse
yeah, all games should work fine now on the desire, with or without froyo. Don't forget the desire has a 1ghz cpu much greater than the iphone which is around 400mhz. Any game that struggles with framedrops is due to bad programming. I remember Raging Thunder 2, which also had a lot of framedrops in their earlier version. Later on, they updated the game code and the game now works fantastic.
Good games are starting to come now
Its not that simple. Snapdragon is faster than the iPhone CPU for general purpose processing but the GPU in the iPhone is faster.
But still what pina says is true: I mean, Asphalt 5 looks crap and runs slow when compared to Raging Thunder 2. The latter looks a lot better and runs totally smooth.
What I want to say is, the iPhone's GPU might be faster (I dont know the technical details here), but the Snapdragon is still fast enough for graphics as good as on the iPhone, when coded properly.
New version of Asphalt 5 RUNS Very Smooth ;-)
Some games are badly coded, its always been like that on all platforms. Too many Android games are ports, this is never good, and one reason why the games are slow. Electopia on Winmo shows that snapdragon games can look great. However we still have a slower GPU and 2.5x the pixels to push around than the iPhone.. Of course its probable that the low resolution of the iphone also holds back how good its games will ultimately look. I havent been all that impressed with them to be honest, but they have a smooth frame rate.
pina_ said:
yeah, all games should work fine now on the desire, with or without froyo. Don't forget the desire has a 1ghz cpu much greater than the iphone which is around 400mhz. Any game that struggles with framedrops is due to bad programming. I remember Raging Thunder 2, which also had a lot of framedrops in their earlier version. Later on, they updated the game code and the game now works fantastic.
Good games are starting to come now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Sigh*
Clock speed doesn't make any bit of difference.
Snapdragon beats the iPhone cpu for regular CPU activities but doesn't stand up to it's GPU.
The best console emulation is not available yet but i can't wait to enjoy playing some games like Daytona, Skies of Arcadia, Power Stone or Sonic Adventure 2
Here is some information about the work being conduct by drk||Raziel on NullDCe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-kV_TRNyg&feature=player_embedded
http://code.google.com/p/nulldce/
http://drk.emudev.org/blog/?p=210
http://forums.ngemu.com/nulldc-discussion/
I can"t wait to play those game on my Xperia Play
Specs : Dreamcast = 200 MHz Hitachi SH4 RISC
PSP = MIPS R4000-based; clocked from 1 to 333 MHz
Xperia play # 1GHz Scorpion processor
Adreno 205 GPU
Qualcomm MSM8255 Snapdragon chipset
512 Ram
I'd love it to happen but it won't, not to a playable level anyway, maybe the newest dual core devices could but if we can't even run the n64 and nds perfectly then dreamcast will be on another level.
The video shows how low the frame rate is on
I've read that developers got bored of developing that emu and stopped working on it. I think, it was somewhere on androidforums.
This project seems to be completely stalled. It's a pity, because at least Crazy Taxi seems to run mighty fine. I played Sonic Adventure flawlessly with nullDC on my desktop PC. Maybe a bounty could help to raise interest?
BTW, FK1983, the games may go a bit sloppy on there because it is an alpha version. I am sure a polished, well-functioning emulator should work on a Xperia Play. Probably it'll need to be overclocked for 100% speed, but there's no reason why it shouldn't work OOB.
Unless the source code is released by the manufactures we wont see it happen in this phones life time. It is possible but the amount of work and testing it will take is far to much. Even the PC's dreamcast emulator is sketchy at best. But there are miracles
I've been searching a bit for the project creator, and his trace seems to disappear from all his projects around February this year. I hope nothing bad occurred to him...
My old PC was a 2.2 ghz duo core with a 4670 ati.
It could emulate well up to Gamecube, which would slow down quite a bit.
If we could overclock the Play to 2ghz and we had a Play optimised Dreamcast emulator i believe it could be done.......just.
I have found Dreamcast emulation very problematic on the PC though. Mounting the discs and getting them to work properly is very cumbersome.
In all honesty, since we don't really have that great Dreamcast emulation on the PC, i think it highly unlikely to ever come out for mobile phones.
I'm not terribly convinced we'll ever see a DC emu for the Xperia. There are barely any good DC emulators for the PC, and most good emulators on devices like the Xperia are just optimized ports of PC versions.
It's theoretically possible since both systems run ARM-based architecture (though I'm not sure if the ARM chip in the DC would execute instructions that the Xperia could run as they might have changed drastically over the past decade), but it's theroetically possible, though still unlikely. Even with HLE, you're talking about trying to emulate a 200mhz system on a 1ghz one, that's a pretty damn tall order, and it would take some SERIOUS coding and optimizing to make it happen.
I hate to say it, but emu authors are hobbyists that do this for fun - they rarely have the time to devote to optimizing a emulator well enough to run within such narrow margins.
Just look a FPSE - even being a paid app and getting regular updates, it still doesn't run fullspeed and have accurate sound emulation or graphics filerting and the PSX is only 33mhz.
illuminerdi said:
I'm not terribly convinced we'll ever see a DC emu for the Xperia. There are barely any good DC emulators for the PC, and most good emulators on devices like the Xperia are just optimized ports of PC versions.
It's theoretically possible since both systems run ARM-based architecture (though I'm not sure if the ARM chip in the DC would execute instructions that the Xperia could run as they might have changed drastically over the past decade), but it's theroetically possible, though still unlikely. Even with HLE, you're talking about trying to emulate a 200mhz system on a 1ghz one, that's a pretty damn tall order, and it would take some SERIOUS coding and optimizing to make it happen.
I hate to say it, but emu authors are hobbyists that do this for fun - they rarely have the time to devote to optimizing a emulator well enough to run within such narrow margins.
Just look a FPSE - even being a paid app and getting regular updates, it still doesn't run fullspeed and have accurate sound emulation or graphics filerting and the PSX is only 33mhz.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you except the fpse part. I have Tekken3 for example running at 66fps just because that is my vync.
But yeah a 200Mhz to run on a 1Ghz processor is not very likely feasible. Then again I would love to be wrong!
shaolin95 said:
I agree with you except the fpse part. I have Tekken3 for example running at 66fps just because that is my vync.
But yeah a 200Mhz to run on a 1Ghz processor is not very likely feasible. Then again I would love to be wrong!
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Click to collapse
ye most games run great in fpse. i agree with you there
but try putting screen filtering on in fpse then look at the frame rate
I would most likely kill to be able to play Skies again, my dreamcast died a few years back and I get sad when I walk past my dreamcast games collection.
srsly, will there be a game like skies of arcadia in the next years ? that game was pure awsomeness
why couldent our phones play DC games? our phones is like almost 3 times more powerful then a DC,
i kinda wish the xperia play had the hummingbird cpu and gpu with a 4.3inch screen would pretty much be the same as a Psp 3000
(and come in white on verzion..... the white xperia is so sexy)
icebear8 said:
why couldent our phones play DC games? our phones is like almost 3 times more powerful then a DC,
i kinda wish the xperia play had the hummingbird cpu and gpu with a 4.3inch screen would pretty much be the same as a Psp 3000
(and come in white on verzion..... the white xperia is so sexy)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory it could work reasonably well.
However I imagine it would mean reprogramming games to run natively on the phone.
This or emulating perfectly is simply too much work for a dev to do for free in his spare time.
For that reason I doubt it will ever happen.
Dreamcast emulation is still sketchy on the pc with alot of flaws.
dsswoosh said:
In theory it could work reasonably well.
However I imagine it would mean reprogramming games to run natively on the phone.
This or emulating perfectly is simply too much work for a dev to do for free in his spare time.
For that reason I doubt it will ever happen.
Dreamcast emulation is still sketchy on the pc with alot of flaws.
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Click to collapse
In pcs like mine, a Core i7 920 at stock speed, i don't see any emulation flaws. In mine as NullDC as Demul run all games that are actually emulated, at full speed and without any slowdown.Even in the Naomi 2 ones, which has a more powerful GPU based in the same of Dreamcast, in Demul there are some bugs but almost all those games run at full speed and the hardware base it's the same of Dreamcast.I think that Xperia Play has no chances for the Dreamcast emulation, in the maximum psx games and N64 only overclocked, maybe the Galaxy S II have some chances of a reasonable emulation but not at full speed in some games like Dead or Alive 2. If it is in a phone with a Snapdragon S4 processor like the MSM8960 dual core at 1.5GHz more the Adreno 225 GPU, i think that it will be possible at full speed. This processor has almost 10000 MIPS of processing power, you remember that Dreamcast has 360MIPS despiste to be a console.
Duramajin said:
I would most likely kill to be able to play Skies again, my dreamcast died a few years back and I get sad when I walk past my dreamcast games collection.
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Click to collapse
I have 2x brand new dreamcasts right now
A shop near me sells them for 10 dollars each with brand new cd drives (the part that failed the most on them)
anyways I have a game collection of around 500 games at the moment
Dreamcast was the best system ever I think
For sure one of my favorite
and saying the emulators are sketchy is a lie.
I've tested personally almost my whole collection on them and never had any problems with games
HOWEVER. i dont think the Xperia play will ever emulate a dreamcast well
that emu has been dead forever somone would have to pickup the project
Necrobump...
antispiral said:
Necrobump...
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Dont blame me I didn't bump it lol.
I don't really use the N7 for gaming as I already own a high-end gaming computer, besides I find tablets kind of uncomfortable for serious gaming, but I keep finding games that don't run as smooth as they should because of the same reason: This game is not optimized for tegra 3. I can't help but wonder: Will they ever optimize games for tegra 3? And I mean generally, not just a couple of games.
As you ask for "generally" i.e. ALL future games, the answer will (with a probabilty of 87.4%) be: No, they won't.
I don't think you can ever have "serious gaming" on a touch screen. You need real controllers or a keyboard + mouse for that. I also don't think you're going to get your serious gaming on a device that has 1GB of ram and runs everything in a virtual machine. You've got the whole android OS running along side the game, so the game is having to share that piddly 1GB of ram.
Look at the minimum requirements for big PC games and then look at the resources available to games on this tablet. The nexus doesnt even have half the specs for the lowest recommended settings in far cry 3, dishonored, dark souls, most of the other games that showed up on the list when I googled for "popular PC games".
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=3410&game=Dark Souls
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=2186&game=Dishonored
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=883&game=Far Cry 3
In most cases, I'd say developers won't take the time to optimize a game for a specific CPU. SoCs change about as often as you change your underwear. What is hot today will be obsolete next quarter and a handfull of newer chips will be out. If game makers had to optimize every game for every possible SoC, they'd never get nything released.
gianptune said:
I don't think you can ever have "serious gaming" on a touch screen. You need real controllers or a keyboard + mouse for that. I also don't think you're going to get your serious gaming on a device that has 1GB of ram and runs everything in a virtual machine. You've got the whole android OS running along side the game, so the game is having to share that piddly 1GB of ram.
Look at the minimum requirements for big PC games and then look at the resources available to games on this tablet. The nexus doesnt even have half the specs for the lowest recommended settings in far cry 3, dishonored, dark souls, most of the other games that showed up on the list when I googled for "popular PC games".
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=3410&game=Dark Souls
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=2186&game=Dishonored
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=883&game=Far Cry 3
In most cases, I'd say developers won't take the time to optimize a game for a specific CPU. SoCs change about as often as you change your underwear. What is hot today will be obsolete next quarter and a handfull of newer chips will be out. If game makers had to optimize every game for every possible SoC, they'd never get nything released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And where did I say I wanted to use it for serious gaming? Read the first post again because it seems you didn't understand it quite well. I'm just wondering if tegra 3 will be of any use in the future, nothing else.
It is not in game makers' interest to optimize games for specific chipsets. They make more money by cranking out 1 version of a game that runs on as many devices as possible. If they spend 3 months optimizing it for our chip, and then 3 months optimizing it for the snapdragon s4, the game is already released 6 months later and costs much more to make.
They will only optimize a game for the tegra3 if they are sure they can get their money back out of that extra effort. Will they sell enough "tegra optimized" versions to make up for all the copies they didn't sell in their 3 months of delay? Will they sell enough copies to pay the people that worked to do the optimizing? Do they even want to pay somebody to sit and figure out the math on that?
My point of view
gianptune said:
I don't think you can ever have "serious gaming" on a touch screen. You need real controllers or a keyboard + mouse for that. I also don't think you're going to get your serious gaming on a device that has 1GB of ram and runs everything in a virtual machine. You've got the whole android OS running along side the game, so the game is having to share that piddly 1GB of ram.
Look at the minimum requirements for big PC games and then look at the resources available to games on this tablet. The nexus doesnt even have half the specs for the lowest recommended settings in far cry 3, dishonored, dark souls, most of the other games that showed up on the list when I googled for "popular PC games".
...cut...
In most cases, I'd say developers won't take the time to optimize a game for a specific CPU. SoCs change about as often as you change your underwear. What is hot today will be obsolete next quarter and a handfull of newer chips will be out. If game makers had to optimize every game for every possible SoC, they'd never get nything released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you compare the situation with PC gaming, it's also a matter about different CPU architectures (x86 vs ARM), CISC vs RISC etc., it's not only a matter of plain comparison of MHz or RAM.
However Tegra 3 IMHO sadly gave results below expectations in gaming due its limited memory bandwidth that's an issue for high resolution screens. So even if it's an overall good SoC, I think we won't see many optimized games for it, mainly because the market leader (yeah, it's the bitten apple in the gaming department), focuses on different specs and recode a game to fit the requirements costs too much compared to the revenue they could achieve with a tailored version.
The saddest thing (and I hope to be proved wrong), is that with the release of Tegra 4, we'll be forgot like the devices with Tegra 2...
There are a couple of nice games to get, I wished there where free ones though which where tegra optimised so I could see the difference.
But with all the different chipsets they would never do it, and if they where going to do it id say they would optimse the chipset what samsung uses because there are so many more of those sold.
N732 said:
I'm just wondering if tegra 3 will be of any use in the future, nothing else.
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Tegra 3's future started about a year ago, and will be over some time next year. 'tis the nature of SoC's.
Loved the underwear comment above (c: and there is a fair amount of truth in it. While seeing the Tegra optimized stuff was cool, it is a sales tool with a limited window.
N732 said:
I don't really use the N7 for gaming as I already own a high-end gaming computer, besides I find tablets kind of uncomfortable for serious gaming, but I keep finding games that don't run as smooth as they should because of the same reason: This game is not optimized for tegra 3. I can't help but wonder: Will they ever optimize games for tegra 3? And I mean generally, not just a couple of games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download the Tegrazone app. There's a good many optimized games and some great free ones like shadowgun: Deadzone
I've got a windows 8 razer edge pro in my house that I was attempting to get dying light to run on, and it seems the game doesn't like the base CPU speed(1.9GHz). Unfortunately, instead of letting me test and see for myself it enforces some minimum specs to even launch the main page, but I'm quite confident the game will run fine on the tablet, and would like to get the chance to fail for myself instead of being immediately shut down. Does anyone know of any method I can use to block or spoof a program's hardware check so I can test run the game?
not sure about spoofing hardware spec
sure you can run this game ok?
your CPU doesnt meet even the minimum requirements and your GPU isnt supported either. not played the game myself but read that this game doesnt run that well even on a decent pc.
from my experience of pc gaming, even the minimum requirements isnt enough for a enjoyable, playable experience
i agree though. Id prefer to test it and see for myself that its unplayable than the game just asuming the specs arent good enough.
I've heard it's pretty unoptimized CPU-wise, so I'm not entirely certain. However, I've been playing the game on my desktop, which is quite old. The benchmark scores on the desktop's Nvidia 450 GTS are roughly similar to the edge's mobile video card(about a 10% higher benchmark, but it runs very well without minimizing every setting), and both cards support DX11.
The CPU might be an issue, but it does support 3 GHz turbo, and is an i7. My desktop runs a similar generation i3 at 3.2GHz, which also has a similar benchmark to the 1.9GHz i7 in the tablet even without turbo, so I'm just tempted to test everything. I just find it unfortunate I'm being prevented from doing so, and became interested in the longterm ability to spoof past an application's checks. I'm a bit worried these mandatory checks may become more common.
I appreciate the reply, steam posts seem to be full of "Get better hardware lol" style replies instead of solutions.
My nephews have tablets with the Tegra 4 processor but certain Android games just stopped working correctly on them. For instance, both Roblox and Hungry Shark Evolution worked just fine but after the games were updated (these were forced updates, you couldn't play the games unless you updated via Play Store) they don't work right or work at all.
For example. Roblox crashed when you select "Play" with an error that it can't write to frame or something. Hungry Shark Evolution works but the shark and other creatures/characters in game are look like black shadows (no color at all).
For comparison sake, these games run just fine on the much weaker Nextbook Ares 8. Does anyone know what's going on or how to fix this?
Being that the graphics rendering for the Tegra GPU's is different than other GPU's used by most other devices, it isn't uncommon for some apps to have issues on this and other Tegra powered devices, however it is strange that a dev would update the app and break rendering when it was previous working. Not like Tegra isn't still relevant considering the Tegra 4/K/X are all still used.
I would contact the dev for the apps and see if you can bring the issue to their attention as it previously worked. Also have you tried removing the app completely and reinstalling it just to be sure?
Yup. Tried uninstalling, rebooting, then reinstalling. Nothing changes.
The funny thing is, another Roblox player with a Tegra 4 tablet has the exact same error. So it's definitely not just my nephews tablets. I saw the post in the Roblox forum, but there is no solution to it.
It could also be partially due to the OS version. If you are on KitKat, some older games will work just fine, but once you upgrade to 5.1 (I don't recommend this on this tablet), then some newer games may now work, but older ones will no longer work.
Then the Tegra limit is still there, but it is less common now then it was a year or so ago. Really since Android is only now getting a little closer to feature parity between hardware with things like OpenGLES 3.1 and Vulkan with 6.0/7.0, any games built with that on should be ok on a lot more hardware in the long run. (pending the hardware supports it as well of course.)