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I want to do some Android development and I currently have access to a Vaio running Vista Home Premium and a MacBook Pro running Leopard. I was considering installing Linux or Ubuntu on my Vaio, is this a good idea? What are the perks to an open source OS (I can only imagine after seeing what Linux based Android OS is capable of)
jbraucht said:
I want to do some Android development and I currently have access to a Vaio running Vista Home Premium and a MacBook Pro running Leopard. I was considering installing Linux or Ubuntu on my Vaio, is this a good idea? What are the perks to an open source OS (I can only imagine after seeing what Linux based Android OS is capable of)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there's any as far as Android development is concerned. ADB and Eclipse run on Windows just as fine as they do on Linux, and if you need any GNU tools there's always Cygwin.
I develop under Linux myself, but that's just because it's my main OS (after you get around all the problems and learn how to use it basic tasks become quicker by a fair amount). If I were using Windows, I doubt I would bother putting Linux on my machine just for Android development.
Either way, it's up to you to try and see whichever is more comfortable for you.
I like the spirit of Linux. Microsoft is a soul sucking evil, not to mention Vista drains ungodly resources just to idle. If I load Ubuntu will it wipe my hd like any other OS? I don't have an external at the moment, is it possible to make a small storage partition that won't get touched?
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
jbraucht said:
I like the spirit of Linux. Microsoft is a soul sucking evil, not to mention Vista drains ungodly resources just to idle. If I load Ubuntu will it wipe my hd like any other OS? I don't have an external at the moment, is it possible to make a small storage partition that won't get touched?
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends on how you partition your HDD. If you have enough free space you can just shrink your Vista partition and install Ubuntu alongside it in a separate partition thus leaving your Windows untouched. Hit Google with something like "installing Ubuntu after Vista" and you'll get many useful guides.
Just note that after installing Ubuntu you might need a lot of coffee, many hours, or days, and lots of head bashing against the table before you will get everything to work as you'd like After that you'll be free again... totally free, until you decide to upgrade to a newer release
martino2k6 said:
Just note that after installing Ubuntu you might need a lot of coffee, many hours, or days, and lots of head bashing against the table before you will get everything to work as you'd like After that you'll be free again... totally free, until you decide to upgrade to a newer release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now you're scaring me. i have my vaio open in front of me and all i can think is "remember how much stumbling through freeing the captivate made you a crazy person? just wait."
Now I'm getting tempted to wipe my old XP computer and stick Linux on it. Could be fun to learn.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
You can boot Ubuntu from CD-ROM or USB stick if you want to try it out. Of course it's a lot slower than a full installation but at least it won't touch your harddisc! Check out the Ubuntu site for instructions.
I have two laptops at home and in the meanwhile I'm running Ubuntu on both of them. The first one is dual booting with Windows 7 (in case I want to do some gaming) and on the second one I totally wiped out Windows!!!
I never did any Linux before but so far I didn't run into any problems at all. Ubuntu is working smooth directly after installation. No problem to connect to WLAN (just as easy as on Windows 7) and downloading apps, development tools, and whatever from Ubuntu software store is just as easy as on Android!
For Android app development you don't necessary need any Linux. But if you want to play with the NDK then you might want to know that there's no Google support for Windows, so Linux is recommended here. If you want to compile the Android OS itself then a Linux machine is more suitable as well.
On Windows there's still the possibilty to use some Cygwin emulation or whatever but I never tried it myself, instead I thought for myself: I want to do Linux or I don't want to do Linux?
If you are more comfortable with a Linux PC then you'll also get a better understanding on the way Android is working in case you are interested in the internals, file system, shell, etc.
jbraucht said:
now you're scaring me. i have my vaio open in front of me and all i can think is "remember how much stumbling through freeing the captivate made you a crazy person? just wait."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, well maybe I was a bit too harsh. Really depends how anal you are about things working properly
I have faith in my ability to fix anything. I can't change the boot options on my vaio tho, I can't get to the right menu
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
I recommend ubuntu. Compared to earlier years, almost everything just works out of the box, very basic and easy. You can load up a live cd/usb, install along side your current os with a very small partition size [I use about 8g out of my 120g hdd] because ubuntu is smart enough to read ntfs file systems, so it will be able to read anything that is on the windows partition as well. It will automatically install grub, allowing you to pick between os's when you boot, and everything is swell. Though i would upgrade to windows 7 first, as vista = crap
Is it possible to boot another OS like..idk, ubuntu or windows without having to boot up android? Something like direct boot? Just like our PC's do. Is it possible?
Since this question seems to burn on your poor soul ...
NO ... at least NOT for as long as you don't...
- ...write a fitting boot loader for the intended OS to kick-start its kernel and boot-strap the OS.
- ...find a way to re-partition the internal phone storage (aka "NAND") to meet the demands of the OS.
- ...wrote drivers to support the hardware (USB, Camera, Sound, WiFi, et al)
It may be possible to somehow directly boot a made-for-the-X8 Linux, but then the idea is rather pointless anyway as you would also need to code up the required applications to actually use the device as a phone (in case you missed it, you're holding a phone in your hands, not a tablet computer).
Throw away your hopes to see Windows 8 running on the X8 ... the device is not suited to run that OS at all (EDIT: or are you going to port the required Secure Boot enabled UEFI Firmware to the X8?).
Your best shot would be (after some intense development work) to get Linux or Windows CE up and running.
bogdan_mihai554 said:
Is it possible to boot another OS like..idk, ubuntu or windows without having to boot up android? Something like direct boot? Just like our PC's do. Is it possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes its possible you can run Windows 95 on X8 . Search on you tube for videos. After that search in Android development section/
But it will work partially
B.Jay said:
Since this question seems to burn on your poor soul ...
NO ... at least NOT for as long as you don't...
- ...write a fitting boot loader for the intended OS to kick-start its kernel and boot-strap the OS.
- ...find a way to re-partition the internal phone storage (aka "NAND") to meet the demands of the OS.
- ...wrote drivers to support the hardware (USB, Camera, Sound, WiFi, et al)
It may be possible to somehow directly boot a made-for-the-X8 Linux, but then the idea is rather pointless anyway as you would also need to code up the required applications to actually use the device as a phone (in case you missed it, you're holding a phone in your hands, not a tablet computer).
Throw away your hopes to see Windows 8 running on the X8 ... the device is not suited to run that OS at all (EDIT: or are you going to port the required Secure Boot enabled UEFI Firmware to the X8?).
Your best shot would be (after some intense development work) to get Linux or Windows CE up and running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, you're right ) windows 8 and ubuntu and too complicated for X8 to handle, but Windows CE would be really nice
Also, i've found an really small linux(Slax) and it would be really cool if we can get it running on x8
bogdan_mihai554 said:
Windows CE would be really nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many years ago (2002? 2003?) I had a COMPAQ iPAQ 3660 (which I even mod-updated from PocketPC 2000 to PocketPC 2002) - and a friend of mine had a 5xxx series iPAQ which where the first ones to come with a GSM slot.
Take my word that Windows CE would be pointless. Compared to Android Windows CE is not only hopelessly outdated but also the same crap as WP7.
If _I_ would want to have Windows CE/Windows Phone 7 device and be tortured to the ninth circle of hell by that steaming-pile-of-sh** Metro UI I would have gotten a brain removal surgery and bought one.
Having a true Linux up and running would be nice, but also pointless for as long as the apps to make calls and send/receive SMS/MMS are missing.
B.Jay said:
Many years ago (2002? 2003?) I had a COMPAQ iPAQ 3660 (which I even mod-updated from PocketPC 2000 to PocketPC 2002) - and a friend of mine had a 5xxx series iPAQ which where the first ones to come with a GSM slot.
Take my word that Windows CE would be pointless. Compared to Android Windows CE is not only hopelessly outdated but also the same crap as WP7.
If _I_ would want to have Windows CE/Windows Phone 7 device and be tortured to the ninth circle of hell by that steaming-pile-of-sh** Metro UI I would have gotten a brain removal surgery and bought one.
Having a true Linux up and running would be nice, but also pointless for as long as the apps to make calls and send/receive SMS/MMS are missing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 8 has Metro UI...I hate it )
http://catholictechgeek.blogspot.com/2012/08/does-windows-8-and-winrt-mean-death-to.html
The article above has my full thoughts, but I wonder if there is a bit too much push for the graphical user interface in Windows 8 (and WinRT) and because of this, the survival of the command line in Windows (the thing that a bunch of the rom tools run on) is in jeopardy.
Given how worthless winRT is, useful programs like kitchens will never, ever appear on them. MS will have to keep the command line unless they want to lose everyone to linux/mac.
Even android phones have a working command line.
Just thought I would confirm that the Command line (cmd) is still present in Windows 8. As far as I'm aware there was never any talk about removing it.
they will never remove the command prompt, neither the new powershell....
on RT version, the final user will never use it.. but I think that will be present...
m0nkf1sh said:
Just thought I would confirm that the Command line (cmd) is still present in Windows 8. As far as I'm aware there was never any talk about removing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, the command line is still there as well as PowerShell.
WinRT resembles Windows 8 in UI looks only. Nothing under that is the same as Win8.
It's like comparing an Android Device to a Desktop PC and wondering why you can't run the same programs on them.
Talderon said:
WinRT resembles Windows 8 in UI looks only. Nothing under that is the same as Win8.
hem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually it is still the NT kernel in WInRT adapted to ARM underneath I believe, similar to Windows phone, but yeah possibly no command line but i'd hope maybe powershell might be there...
And now the whole situation of "same program, different architectures" is back (after about 6 years).I remember back in the early days of Windows Mobile, you had the issue a developer releasing different builds of the some program for ARM, MIPS, and SH3. Eventually, ARM won out and program installation packages were (somewhat) standardized. Now, we have the issue between ARM and x86. Luckily, Microsoft has made this easier with the windows 8 store, so things aren't fragmented like before. This is probably why there is no real Desktop mode included in the ARM build of Windows 8.
Steven855 said:
And now the whole situation of "same program, different architectures" is back (after about 6 years).I remember back in the early days of Windows Mobile, you had the issue a developer releasing different builds of the some program for ARM, MIPS, and SH3. Eventually, ARM won out and program installation packages were (somewhat) standardized. Now, we have the issue between ARM and x86. Luckily, Microsoft has made this easier with the windows 8 store, so things aren't fragmented like before. This in probably why there is no real Desktop mode included in the ARM build of Windows 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see an issue with ARM vs. x86 in this same context as the x86 tablet will run like an Ultra Mobile PC.
ARM will be treated the same as Mobile Phones of the same architecture as it is today.
>However, there is still no word yet on whether Microsoft will include the command line for the ARM build of Windows 8.
According to this presentation slide of PowerShell 3.0 (at TechEd 2012), PS3 will support Windows RT. If PS is present, by extension CLI is available.
http://video.ch9.ms/teched/2012/na/WSV414.pptx
e.mote said:
>However, there is still no word yet on whether Microsoft will include the command line for the ARM build of Windows 8.
According to this presentation slide of PowerShell 3.0 (at TechEd 2012), PS3 will support Windows RT. If PS is present, by extension CLI is available.
http://video.ch9.ms/teched/2012/na/WSV414.pptx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there we have it folks!
I am still waiting on word on when we can pre-order the MS Surface. So far, from the Spec's everyone else has shown for their offerings, not much reason to jump ship to another brand. (yet)
Press Windows Key +X and you'll see two command prompts shortcuts...
this should be clarified - ROM tools in Windows RT aren't going to have a barrier in the shape of a command line so much as they'll have a barrier in that all current windows ROM utilities are either for x86 CPUs or Java (and java has no Windows ARM VM) and as such wouldn't run on WinRT's command line anyway.
I don't think an X86 emulator will be an option for Windows RT and the ARM architecture either.
The command line is actually alive and well in Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012. If anything Microsoft is moving the capabilities of the command line forward in recent years. The Power Shell allows to configure a huge part of Windows and Server Software based upon it (e.g. Exchange) that previously was not easily configurable through scripts.
Concerning Windows RT on ARM tablets the problems go much deeper than the command line. The RT-Apps won't be able to install device drivers for Smartphones to access them - this will also be true for official companion apps. Unless there is a class driver like for many printers, keyboards, etc. Windows RT simply won't support connection to those devices (again, this only applies to the ARM version).
For many reasons x86 isn't going anywhere and this limited support of peripherals is just one of them.
According to the Synofsky blog post, RT does support at least the v4 print class driver, but not v3. No mention is made for other peripherals, however.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/07/25/simplifying-printing-in-windows-8.aspx
It depends on what role MS sees for RT going forward. If RT is to be a limited OS to compete with Android/iOS, then printing support may be it. But if RT is to be a full counterpart of x86, other peripherals support will need to happen.
Looking long term, ARM will play a larger role than x86 in the trend of ever-smaller devices, with increasing emphasis on battery life. From this, my educated guess is that RT won't be the ugly duckling for long.
Let's face it, RT is a work-in-progress. Peripheral support is Windows' strongest card against the other mobile OS'es (and Linux). My take is that it will happen contigent to the above, but it won't be this initial iteration.
In short, don't take the limitations of this v1.0 as being cast in stone.
Talderon said:
Correct, the command line is still there as well as PowerShell.
WinRT resembles Windows 8 in UI looks only. Nothing under that is the same as Win8.
It's like comparing an Android Device to a Desktop PC and wondering why you can't run the same programs on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, that is factually incorrect. Windows RT shares substantial code with Windows 8, as Microsoft has confirmed many times in the Windows 8/RT development blog.
I'm a major power user of Windows. At work, I am a sysadmin, managing hundreds of Windows servers (from 2003 to 2008 R2). Exchange servers, Citrix/Terminal servers, Active Directory are my specialties. I have experience with programming .NET, VBScript, php, and a bit of Java. I would say I have about 18 years of computing experience, the first problem I had to fix myself was DOS6.22 not locating my CDROM drive, the issue turned out to be an mscdex problem
I'm pretty good with *nix as well, though not as good as my Windows skills, I am pretty good with my way around command line on bsd and linux. Although I have a passion for PCs, I have also dabbled with macs, and can manage and repair them as well. Oh I completely forgot to mention my hardware background, but I don't really do too much with that nowadays, so might not be that relevant.
Over the last year I have started to play with Android devices, I have a Motorola Droid4 as my phone, and a Nexus 7 as my tablet.
My PC usage habits have changed since I got my first tablet, I use my PC for what I would consider, advanced tasks. Things like building ISOs, and bootable USB sticks, repairing/managing my android devices (things like moto rsdlite, or factory restore on my nexus 7), banking, deep research, and working from home (which includes a variety of management of system utilities using RDP to the office). I have been using Windows 8 for about a day and like to new interface of the desktop but find the "Windows 8 Style" (formerly known as metro) pretty disappointing since it's a 1 app at a time thing, NOT something I would want to do on my PC (I mean how often do you have only one thing up on the screen, that's fullscreen??). Is there a way I can use Windows 8 in desktop only mode? I don't know about you, but doing development in Metro doesn't seem very smart to me...
and your point being? cannot believe i wasted my time reading this post...
http://google.com/search?q="windows+8"+desktop+mode+default
e.mote said:
http://google.com/search?q="windows+8"+desktop+mode+default
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is so experienced, yet he does not know how to search? you should not feed the trolls
nitr8 said:
He is so experienced, yet he does not know how to search? you should not feed the trolls
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I spent about 2 hours searching last night with no success. But to desktop mode had been disabled in RTM, which is why I've posted a thread on this forum. Xda always has ways around things.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
>But to desktop mode had been disabled in RTM
You're saying that the methods in the below link (2nd link in above Google search) no longer work?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/6-ways-to-totally-avoid-metro-and-use-only-desktop-mode-in-windows-8
I'll have the RTM installed this weekend and will find out first hand. My real interest in Win8 is Windows-to-Go, and I'll see if it can be done with the Pro edition. If not, then we'll need to get more creative.
>Xda always has ways around things.
XDA is strong with Android, but there are better forums for Win8 info.
e.mote said:
>But to desktop mode had been disabled in RTM
You're saying that the methods in the below link (2nd link in above Google search) no longer work?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/6-ways-to-totally-avoid-metro-and-use-only-desktop-mode-in-windows-8
I'll have the RTM installed this weekend and will find out first hand. My real interest in Win8 is Windows-to-Go, and I'll see if it can be done with the Pro edition. If not, then we'll need to get more creative.
>Xda always has ways around things.
XDA is strong with Android, but there are better forums for Win8 info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding boot to desktop review the following link:
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-said...-straight-to-desktop-in-windows-8-7000002219/
Don't waste your time with pro, you'll need enterprise for Windows-to-Go.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
desktop is there, click desktop or hit the win button,
use metro as a start menu, apps are apps, wee programs to run on metro, applications or programs are big programs to run in desktop
in short, consider getting used to it. as you at length told us, you know a great deal, and pulling out the mscdex issue suggests....very little actually, as to know what you were doing with that would have required you to learn how to use it and know that was only one half of the potential issues with cd drives.
so my point being, try it, learn it, get used to it, and i can promise you, you'll go back to win 7 or xp one day and think is like stepping back in time to some god forsaken inefficient decade of OS design,
>Don't waste your time with pro, you'll need enterprise for Windows-to-Go.
That's the official line. The imagex route worked for the CP, so I'll try that for the Pro and see what happens. Else, we'll see.
In any case, I've no doubt that the WTG feature will be hacked out and made available as a standalone before long. It's the cherry on top of Win8, and a bull's-eye for every hacker.
As dazza said: Search. Try different things. And have patience and wait for solutions. Remember that Win8 isn't officially released yet.
MS can block certain methods, but it cannot block everything, like setting up a task or a keyboard macro to bypass the UI on boot-up. Here's one method (yes, this came up in a search):
http://pureinfotech.com/2012/08/14/script-bypass-start-screen-windows-8-desktop/
Anyway, your disdain of Metro is a common refrain, and there'll be solutions to address it.
I need to get a good ebook on Win8 nuts & bolts. Any recommendations out there? OK I'll take my own advice and search before ask..."Windows 8 Unleashed"..."Windows 8 for Dummies"
Thanks, that's a good suggestion; creating the scheduled task. At this point a lot of the OS is pretty much what I would consider "half baked". Reminds me of a Blackberry situation, where they have this grand OS, with not a lot of developer support. I'd like to get my google apps into the metro portion, and I am hoping in the future something will come along to replace the desktop without the start menu (seems sort of like a silly solution to force people to use metro). I'm not against the metro UI, for what I use PCs for it just doesn't really work that well.
I'm planning on continuing to use it for another month, and since I'm an MS admin, it's something I'll have to get used to whether I like it or not, that's why I came to this forum to ask around.
Again, thanks for the searching on the issue. I'm sure this will help others in their search for a boot to desktop solution.
danifunker said:
Thanks, that's a good suggestion; creating the scheduled task. At this point a lot of the OS is pretty much what I would consider "half baked". Reminds me of a Blackberry situation, where they have this grand OS, with not a lot of developer support. I'd like to get my google apps into the metro portion, and I am hoping in the future something will come along to replace the desktop without the start menu (seems sort of like a silly solution to force people to use metro). I'm not against the metro UI, for what I use PCs for it just doesn't really work that well.
I'm planning on continuing to use it for another month, and since I'm an MS admin, it's something I'll have to get used to whether I like it or not, that's why I came to this forum to ask around.
Again, thanks for the searching on the issue. I'm sure this will help others in their search for a boot to desktop solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my point is, you dont have to use it other than for a fancy start menu, and even then you dont have to use it, pin a folder to the task bar and you have an instant ld fashioned start menu.
think of it this way, turn PC on, up pops metro giving you at a glance a little bit of info on everything you have setup, pop in to desktop and get on with work, every now and then you can flick to metro to get a little update, if you want to read more without opening the full blown program an app may do the job, if you need to do a bit more work with the item in question then you can fire up the main program, its just a different way of thinking, but i can assure you, if you put in the effort, you will find your productivity measurably improved!
>At this point a lot of the OS is pretty much what I would consider "half baked"
I see Win8 as work in progress, which probably means the same as yours. Yes, desktop/Metro integration is poor. But MS had to implement a touch UI, integrate it with existing WIMP UI, set up an app store infrastructure, and support the ARM platform. That's a lot for one rev, so it'll take two (or more). I think of RTM as Release Preview 2.
My SWAG is that Win8 will have a mixed reception, and MS will quickly push out a service pack next year to address the shortcomings.
x86 aside, I'm interested in how WinRT will fare. As do MS, no doubt. The rumor of $199 RT toy has at least a whiff of truth to it.
Classic Shell now supports RTM, and has options to bypass Metro UI & disable hot corners
http://www.overclock.net/t/1295961/sf-classic-shell-is-officially-released-for-windows-8-rtm
For those who have Synaptic touchpads, you can use the latest Win7 drivers, although edge-swipe functions aren't implemented:
http://www.synaptics.com/resources/drivers/
Win8 beta Synaptics driver w/ edge-swipes below. It works, but is a little buggy. Left-edge swipe (task switch) gets activated at odd times.
http://drivers.softpedia.com/progDo...161811-for-Windows-8-x64-Download-172310.html
Frankly, for non-touchscreen PCs, you won't miss the Metro UI or the edge swipes. Will have to know your shortcuts, though.
Better yet,
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/157302-windows-7-explorer-for-windows-8/
danifunker said:
I'm a major power user of Windows. At work, I am a sysadmin, managing hundreds of Windows servers (from 2003 to 2008 R2). Exchange servers, Citrix/Terminal servers, Active Directory are my specialties. I have experience with programming .NET, VBScript, php, and a bit of Java. I would say I have about 18 years of computing experience, the first problem I had to fix myself was DOS6.22 not locating my CDROM drive, the issue turned out to be an mscdex problem
I'm pretty good with *nix as well, though not as good as my Windows skills, I am pretty good with my way around command line on bsd and linux. Although I have a passion for PCs, I have also dabbled with macs, and can manage and repair them as well. Oh I completely forgot to mention my hardware background, but I don't really do too much with that nowadays, so might not be that relevant.
Over the last year I have started to play with Android devices, I have a Motorola Droid4 as my phone, and a Nexus 7 as my tablet.
My PC usage habits have changed since I got my first tablet, I use my PC for what I would consider, advanced tasks. Things like building ISOs, and bootable USB sticks, repairing/managing my android devices (things like moto rsdlite, or factory restore on my nexus 7), banking, deep research, and working from home (which includes a variety of management of system utilities using RDP to the office). I have been using Windows 8 for about a day and like to new interface of the desktop but find the "Windows 8 Style" (formerly known as metro) pretty disappointing since it's a 1 app at a time thing, NOT something I would want to do on my PC (I mean how often do you have only one thing up on the screen, that's fullscreen??). Is there a way I can use Windows 8 in desktop only mode? I don't know about you, but doing development in Metro doesn't seem very smart to me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, good ol' MSCDEX . Anyway, I've been an IT guy for about the same amount of time as you (16, just shy of 17 years) and personally, I love Windows 8. My suggestion is this: use the desktop for desktop things, and use Metro for Metro things. Revolutionary advice, I know . To answer the question of "when would I use an app full screen?" the answer is simple: When you want to be *productive* in that app. Studies have shown that people working in clean, full-screen workspaces get more done because they have fewer distractions.
Metro, to be sure, is not a "one size fits all" solution. It does certain things exceptionally well, and others are best left to the desktop. And honestly, that's OK. I'd rather have an OS that can handle both worlds than have two distinct and separate OS's for different devices.
---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
e.mote said:
Classic Shell now supports RTM, and has options to bypass Metro UI & disable hot corners
http://www.overclock.net/t/1295961/sf-classic-shell-is-officially-released-for-windows-8-rtm
For those who have Synaptic touchpads, you can use the latest Win7 drivers, although edge-swipe functions aren't implemented:
http://www.synaptics.com/resources/drivers/
Win8 beta Synaptics driver w/ edge-swipes below. It works, but is a little buggy. Left-edge swipe (task switch) gets activated at odd times.
http://drivers.softpedia.com/progDo...161811-for-Windows-8-x64-Download-172310.html
Frankly, for non-touchscreen PCs, you won't miss the Metro UI or the edge swipes. Will have to know your shortcuts, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank goodness there are options for people who can't bring themselves to move forward with the times .
>My suggestion is this: use the desktop for desktop things, and use Metro for Metro things.
That's the problem. Many desktop users would just want to do desktop things and ignore Metro altogether, but Metro is mandatory for apps navigation.
I understand MS' motivation for pushing Metro, although I don't have to like it: It wants to get Metro (and App Store) as many eyeballs as possible, to get people used to the notion of "buying apps" for desktops. It needs to do this to kick-start Metro apps, and thereby give WinRT a boost. The change is for MS' benefit more than the users. As you said yourself, Metro can't do desktop duties, and it only ends up annoying desktop users.
>To answer the question of "when would I use an app full screen?" the answer is simple: When you want to be *productive* in that app. Studies have shown
This is a bad blanket statement in that it assumes everybody works (or should work) the same way. People don't. It also ignores the reality that people are used to certain ways of getting things done, and resent being forced to relinquish those routines for purportedly "better" ones. That's a recipe for wholesale userbase loss.
BTW, a tip: Don't use the phrase "studies have shown." Any time you have to reach for "scientific surveys/studies/experts," it's already a losing argument.
I'm a proponent of Windows 8. I think it's a step in the right direction. But I recognize it's a love-hate relationship with Metro, and both sides have their justifications. It's a subjective thing, and appealing to authority (studies) isn't the answer. The only verdict that matters is from Win8 PC and tablet sales, and we'll know in Oct how Metro will fare.
I found something...
Interesting that I found it in the forbes.com website, I didn't even know they had technical articles!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2012/08/23/restore-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/
In the article it mentions something called Start8. This program is pretty much what I wanted.
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
I'll follow up after I've used Start8 for a little while longer.
I know a few people have made threads like this before, but those were all before Windows 8 was released in its final version. Now that Windows 8 has been out for a while, how do you think it compares to Debian? The gestures and apps are cool ideas, but I don't think they were implemented as well as they could have been on the OS when it came to non-touchscreen devices. Apps are a good idea, but I spend almost no time on the start screen apart from checking mail and breezing past it on my way to search for something.
Drivers have been a nightmare for some users, me included, as a few random automatic updates (now turned off on my PC) rendered my wifi unusable without a complete reinstallation of all the Toshiba drivers. I haven't had any problems with things such as mouse drivers, but I've heard of others who had to get them from another computer and install them via a flash drive.
Graphics are superb on Win8, much better in my opinion than Debian's, but when it comes down to it, they just aren't that big of a factor when choosing an operating system. Debian, on the other hand, lacks fancy graphics while it has a much more ("power user", I guess) friendly way of dealing with files and customization when installing packages. Windows does have options while installing programs, but they are limited to what the installer offers to let you do.
As far as ubiquity, Windows wins hands down. With a Windows system, you will almost never be stuck with a file format that nobody around you can open, and Microsoft Office is just as widespread on school and work computers as it is on home computers. Debian, meanwhile, comes with OpenOffice, or you can install OpenOffice's newer branch, LibreOffice. Both use the .odf format, which is readable in Microsoft Word, but some formatting options and graphics don't translate nicely into Word format. Fortunately, they also include the .doc and .docx formats, though they restrict you somewhat on what your document can have in it (same translation issues). Back to ubiquity, programs are nearly always easier to install on Windows, and plugins such as Flash and Java require much less experience and work on many more browsers when installing than on Debian.
For customization, I like Debian better because packages can install either programs or give you new system changes, such as new window managers and graphics options. In Windows, you either have to change group policy settings, or edit the registry, both time consuming, inefficient, and risky tasks (not so risky for group policy, but whatever). Programs such as Wine (actually, just wine, AFAIK) can safely add a different file system type into Debian, while you have to use the much less well known program Cygwin to have a Linux-esque environment on Windows.
I could go on and on about information that's readily available on google, but I need to know, do you like Debian or Windows better? I've been running Debian on Virtualbox for a while now, and I like it, but the whole thing about it not being as widespread and well-supported (yes, I know it has a support community behind it, but you can google literally just about any problem for Windows) is what's holding me back. I've done a dual-boot arrangement in the past, but that doesn't work because I allot half my hard drive space to both OS's, then end up using only one. So I want to have only one OS installed. I don't use Microsoft Office anyway (LibreOffice all the way! ), but getting used to using pretty much ALL open source alternatives to common Windows programs will take more than the month of sporadic testing on a VM that I've done with it.
Is it worth the switch? Or is Windows 8 too good to give up?