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Windows Mobile 6 Kernel Open Source (also drivers)

I am writing from my pocket pc:
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS2632317407.html
"Microsoft officially launched the sixth generation of its flagship device software "platform, today. "Windows Embedded CE 6.0" boasts kernel architecture enhancements, new software stacks targeting three high-volume device categories, enhanced development tools, and, for the first time, 100 percent availability of Windows CE's kernel source code. "
Doesn't this mean we can port to any device?

This is for links:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/community/community/communityprojects/
http://www.codeplex.com/
---
Develop now, pay later
A free 180-day evaluation version of Windows Embedded CE 6.0 is available for download, here. The kit includes the operating system, the standard shared source components described above, and Visual Studio 2005 Professional.
http://www.windowsembeddedkit.com/

sorry to burst your bubble, but CE6.0 is NOT WM6
WM6 is BASED on CE5.2
WM7 will be BASED on CE6.0
Neither will be creatable/editable using the CE shared source as windowsmobile is not shared source.

True hehe
forgot Windows Mobile 6.0 is based on CE 5.2
Was a quick read and post on my pocket pc
Apologies

Might still be useful,
If we can get Windows CE 6.0 to run on a device...
It may be possible to get Windows Mobile 6 to run using a CE 6 core?
Windows CE 6 should be backward compatible with Windows CE 5.2 (although new drivers will probably be needed)
Long shot, but just might work...
(isn't Windows Mobile just a pretty shell for Windows CE?)
Problems:
*Probably against the Microsoft license. (Donations? Maybe can even buy Windows CE 5.2 Tool Suite)
*Windows CE 6 Core needed for Windows Mobile might be significantly bigger than Windows CE 5.2 Core.
*Need to know everything Windows Mobile uses in Windows CE to build a working core.
*Device Drivers may have to be rewritten depending on how much Windows CE 6 differs form Windows CE 5.2 (Will be easier with source code)
*Getting it to work will require quite a bit of development and research

basically, it's not impossible, just highly unlikely.

hehe any volunteers
I know its crazy, but there are huge benefits in getting this to work.
(Far less limitations in what we can do)
I would investigate myself but it looks like I am about to be computerless for the next 4 weeks!

OK, I hate to burst your bubble even further, but I don't think it will be possible at all.
Why?
1) They are only publishing the Kernel, and there is a lot more to the OS than that.
2) Because of the different kernel architecture the drivers will defiantly need to be rewritten and for that they will have to be reverse engineered first. Just look a the state of various Linux projects to see how long and hard something like that would be.
3) M$ is notorious for making OSs that are not forward compatible - namely although the difference between WM 6 and 5 is almost non existent compiling a simple "Hello word" app with WM 6 SDK will prevent it from running on a WM 5 device (bad exe error).
Also, the fact that they are "releasing" the code does not make it open source. It will still require a ton of paper work to get and you will probably have to be a real company or at least an academic establishment to get it.
M$ already gives out a lot of code for previous embedded OSs under special license.
So by the time someone leaks the code, figures out a way to patch together new kernel and additional required components from previous OS, plus reverse engineers and rewrite drivers for a given device not only that device will become obsolete but the whole CE line.
My guess is, a few years from now phone size devices will be powerful enough to run a normal OS like UMPCs do today.

levenum said:
1) They are only publishing the Kernel, and there is a lot more to the OS than that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to compile the whole of Windows Mobile 6, just the parts that don't allow it to be run on older devices (or newer) e.g. nk.exe
(I haven't downloaded the kit yet so I don't know if this is possible or not, could be, could not be)
levenum said:
2) Because of the different kernel architecture the drivers will defiantly need to be rewritten and for that they will have to be reverse engineered first. Just look a the state of various Linux projects to see how long and hard something like that would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many Windows CE 4 (Windows Mobile 2003 SE) drivers are used on a Windows CE 5.2 (Windows Mobile 5) platform. So there is a slight chance they may work in Windows CE 6.
levenum said:
3) M$ is notorious for making OSs that are not forward compatible - namely although the difference between WM 6 and 5 is almost non existent compiling a simple "Hello word" app with WM 6 SDK will prevent it from running on a WM 5 device (bad exe error).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An application written in a new operating system will not work in the old operating system.
but an application written in the old operating system usually works in the new operating system.
Otherwise microsoft would have many very unhappy customers.
Windows Mobile (non core parts) are basically old applications...
levenum said:
Also, the fact that they are "releasing" the code does not make it open source. It will still require a ton of paper work to get and you will probably have to be a real company or at least an academic establishment to get it.
M$ already gives out a lot of code for previous embedded OSs under special license.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can already download it
http://www.windowsembeddedkit.com/
levenum said:
So by the time someone leaks the code, figures out a way to patch together new kernel and additional required components from previous OS, plus reverse engineers and rewrite drivers for a given device not only that device will become obsolete but the whole CE line.
My guess is, a few years from now phone size devices will be powerful enough to run a normal OS like UMPCs do today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thing runs WINDOWS VISTA
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_HTC_Shift.htm
Heres another one, running windows XP
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...AIONotebookComputers_UX_Series&Dept=computers
We will not know the true amount of work needed until someone tries.
And if it is not a lot of work it will make a few people quite happy.

Well...
Me, i can not see the point in a project like this... Why would you even want to re-do microsofts sh--t.
Use the manpower and resources for the UNI Linux project.. They are allmost done... Just a few glitches now...
I wanna get away from MS asap... but i like this HW...

Android (WinMo) and MacOSX (Vista) - Anybody???

Come to think about is there any posibility
Android - I see a thread, but still work in progress
But how about Mac OS X on Shift
i checked on insanelymac, but still work in progress, perhaps this could be interesting alternative if i may say

OS X on Shift
I've tried to install different versions of OS X (Tiger, Leopard etc) on my shift but the main problem is the screen resolution in setup. The monitor on the Shift is only 800x480 pixels but OS X setup only detects 640x400 (if i remember correctly) and this is not enough to display setup properly. I've also tried different boot parametres to force 800x480 resolution, but without any luck.
Another problem is that the Shift CPU only supports SSE2 and the newer versions of OS X is optimized for SSE3 or better.
If you want to try it for yourself you need an external DVD-ROM and a modified OS X image file (search torrent sites for Kalyway/OSX86 etc.)
Let me know if you find a solution to the resolution problem.

Have you tried installing it when connected to an external monitor?
Regards,
Dave

Yes, I also tried installing it with an external monitor connected. The result was excactly the same. Greyscale and only 640x400 resolution...
I think the problem is that the internal display is detected regardless of if you have an external display connected, and this makes the installation program detect the highest resolution the internal display is capable of displaying.

Check out this forumthread:
Insanelymac

batghost said:
Come to think about is there any posibility
Android - I see a thread, but still work in progress
But how about Mac OS X on Shift
i checked on insanelymac, but still work in progress, perhaps this could be interesting alternative if i may say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After playing around the only Android phone for now (TMob G1), I found it is not exactly that enticing like having a WinMo device. In the case of WinMo, I could at least develop a lot of stuff easier and faster and the devices are restrictive. What I found in G1 is quite opposite, OS is open and ubiquitos, but the device is closed. A lot of heck is missing like having simple SIP.
HTC and TMob screwed Google and the Android community big time I believe. I love both Windows and Linux. I am totally disappointed with this. I feel Vista is not that restrictive than TMob G1, I know I am comparing wrong platforms here, but thats what I felt after spending good amount of time on G1. It is easy to develop stuff and deploy on Android and far better than iPhone deployment, but the device is restrictive not friendly like WinMo. I don't care for source code, I want to see a open machine like Wintels, and WinMos where I definately can break without bricking.
Thanks
--Ram--

OSX
Well I tried to start up an installation of OS X on my Shift but i failed. Same reason as above. No resolution.
BUT i've found this little neat thread http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=115328 I will try to install OS X on friday with the mentioned patches in the thread.
Will keep you informed if it worked on friday!

carolusx said:
Well I tried to start up an installation of OS X on my Shift but i failed. Same reason as above. No resolution.
BUT i've found this little neat thread http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=115328 I will try to install OS X on friday with the mentioned patches in the thread.
Will keep you informed if it worked on friday!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any luck with the install when using the patches?

Nope.
Tried a lot of patches but no luck.
But Im continuing looking around to find a solution.

Do you have some instructions / Information howto is the general installation of Linux on A Windows Mobile ARM processor Side?
You leave the boot loader as is, or linux bring his own Boot loader ?

joy.d said:
Do you have some instructions / Information howto is the general installation of Linux on A Windows Mobile ARM processor Side?
You leave the boot loader as is, or linux bring his own Boot loader ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we need to have SD-card support in SnapVue side to be able to use Haret and boot linux. There are several threads that are discussing the possibility to install linux on the SnapVue side.
Use the search function...

Windows mobile OS on Nexus?

Ive seen People port from Windows mobile to Android.. is it possible opposite?
from Android to win mo?

ruslanriad said:
Ive seen People port from Windows mobile to Android.. is it possible opposite?
from Android to win mo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why on earth would you wanna ruin a perfectly good phone? lol

it 'may' be possible. nobody's working on it, as far as i know.
and, use the search button

you must like blue screens.

ruslanriad said:
Ive seen People port from Windows mobile to Android.. is it possible opposite?
from Android to win mo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
timothydonohue said:
it 'may' be possible. nobody's working on it, as far as i know.
and, use the search button
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like timothydonohue said... SEARCH. This worthless, waste of a thread topic has come up before and was promptly laughed off as a joke.

Why you asking for Windows Mobile, how about Windows Phone 7!

You CAN run Windoze on many laptops & desktops,,, but, why would you want to ??
Cheers!
Lodger (Smug linux user...)

windows is sh*tty i regreted buying hd2 rather than the nexus one be proud of your phone man and forget about windows and all its sh*t (from hd2 user )

While I do agree with these posts that Windows is a horrible mobile OS, let's at least try not to just fill this thread up with unhelpful opinions on how crappy it is.
The specs of the HD2 aren't vastly different to the Nexus so it may be possible to port that rom over, though I literally have no idea how or even if!

hoss_n2 said:
windows is sh*tty i regreted buying hd2 rather than the nexus one be proud of your phone man and forget about windows and all its sh*t (from hd2 user )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on the fence about which phone I wanted. Decided to go with the Nexus One. If the HD2 ran Android, I'd get it in a heartbeat.

Ok forget why on earth you would want to do this... is it possible?
The main problem is that the bootloader sets up RAM and the MMU in a fixed way and then boots from a specific partition. Replacing the bootloader is dangerous, so you need a way to get around this.
When android is run on WM devices they get around this by using a Haret. This isnt an emulator, android doesnt run inside WM. This is what happens:
- Power up
- Bootloader runs
- Windows boots
- Run Haret
- Haret erases memory, reset the MMU, and efectivly undoes what the bootloader did and redoes it how we need it.
- Haret then loads android into the correct memory space and boots the kernel.
The exact same is possible in reverse. Using an app in android to reconfigure the MMU and boot windows.
However, you need ALOT of information about the APP processor in the phone, and its alot of work. As you can tell from the posts in this thread most people think its an insane idea and that Android is >>>>>> windows.
So although it IS possible you'll find it really hard to find a group of people with the motivation to do the work required to get it done.
People who say its impossible are il informed. People who say 'why the hell would you want to do it' are an illustration of the lack of motivation to put the work in to achieve it.

kam187 said:
Ok forget why on earth you would want to do this... is it possible?
The main problem is that the bootloader sets up RAM and the MMU in a fixed way and then boots from a specific partition. Replacing the bootloader is dangerous, so you need a way to get around this.
When android is run on WM devices they get around this by using a Haret. This isnt an emulator, android doesnt run inside WM. This is what happens:
- Power up
- Bootloader runs
- Windows boots
- Run Haret
- Haret erases memory, reset the MMU, and efectivly undoes what the bootloader did and redoes it how we need it.
- Haret then loads android into the correct memory space and boots the kernel.
The exact same is possible in reverse. Using an app in android to reconfigure the MMU and boot windows.
However, you need ALOT of information about the APP processor in the phone, and its alot of work. As you can tell from the posts in this thread most people think its an insane idea and that Android is >>>>>> windows.
So although it IS possible you'll find it really hard to find a group of people with the motivation to do the work required to get it done.
People who say its impossible are il informed. People who say 'why the hell would you want to do it' are an illustration of the lack of motivation to put the work in to achieve it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer.
I used Windows mobile and yeah I didn't like it.
But i felt that WinMo OS is more powerful than Android.
Because everyone switch from WinMo to Android..
I just wanted to see how will it look opposite..
Nothing is Impossible. Its all just takes time and hard work.
People run different Oses on different hardware.
Sorry for taking your time guys. and yeah like you said there is allot of work have to be done.

Is installing Ubuntu/Linux on my Vaio w/ Vista a good idea?

I want to do some Android development and I currently have access to a Vaio running Vista Home Premium and a MacBook Pro running Leopard. I was considering installing Linux or Ubuntu on my Vaio, is this a good idea? What are the perks to an open source OS (I can only imagine after seeing what Linux based Android OS is capable of)

jbraucht said:
I want to do some Android development and I currently have access to a Vaio running Vista Home Premium and a MacBook Pro running Leopard. I was considering installing Linux or Ubuntu on my Vaio, is this a good idea? What are the perks to an open source OS (I can only imagine after seeing what Linux based Android OS is capable of)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there's any as far as Android development is concerned. ADB and Eclipse run on Windows just as fine as they do on Linux, and if you need any GNU tools there's always Cygwin.
I develop under Linux myself, but that's just because it's my main OS (after you get around all the problems and learn how to use it basic tasks become quicker by a fair amount). If I were using Windows, I doubt I would bother putting Linux on my machine just for Android development.
Either way, it's up to you to try and see whichever is more comfortable for you.

I like the spirit of Linux. Microsoft is a soul sucking evil, not to mention Vista drains ungodly resources just to idle. If I load Ubuntu will it wipe my hd like any other OS? I don't have an external at the moment, is it possible to make a small storage partition that won't get touched?
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate

jbraucht said:
I like the spirit of Linux. Microsoft is a soul sucking evil, not to mention Vista drains ungodly resources just to idle. If I load Ubuntu will it wipe my hd like any other OS? I don't have an external at the moment, is it possible to make a small storage partition that won't get touched?
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends on how you partition your HDD. If you have enough free space you can just shrink your Vista partition and install Ubuntu alongside it in a separate partition thus leaving your Windows untouched. Hit Google with something like "installing Ubuntu after Vista" and you'll get many useful guides.
Just note that after installing Ubuntu you might need a lot of coffee, many hours, or days, and lots of head bashing against the table before you will get everything to work as you'd like After that you'll be free again... totally free, until you decide to upgrade to a newer release

martino2k6 said:
Just note that after installing Ubuntu you might need a lot of coffee, many hours, or days, and lots of head bashing against the table before you will get everything to work as you'd like After that you'll be free again... totally free, until you decide to upgrade to a newer release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now you're scaring me. i have my vaio open in front of me and all i can think is "remember how much stumbling through freeing the captivate made you a crazy person? just wait."

Now I'm getting tempted to wipe my old XP computer and stick Linux on it. Could be fun to learn.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

You can boot Ubuntu from CD-ROM or USB stick if you want to try it out. Of course it's a lot slower than a full installation but at least it won't touch your harddisc! Check out the Ubuntu site for instructions.
I have two laptops at home and in the meanwhile I'm running Ubuntu on both of them. The first one is dual booting with Windows 7 (in case I want to do some gaming) and on the second one I totally wiped out Windows!!!
I never did any Linux before but so far I didn't run into any problems at all. Ubuntu is working smooth directly after installation. No problem to connect to WLAN (just as easy as on Windows 7) and downloading apps, development tools, and whatever from Ubuntu software store is just as easy as on Android!
For Android app development you don't necessary need any Linux. But if you want to play with the NDK then you might want to know that there's no Google support for Windows, so Linux is recommended here. If you want to compile the Android OS itself then a Linux machine is more suitable as well.
On Windows there's still the possibilty to use some Cygwin emulation or whatever but I never tried it myself, instead I thought for myself: I want to do Linux or I don't want to do Linux?
If you are more comfortable with a Linux PC then you'll also get a better understanding on the way Android is working in case you are interested in the internals, file system, shell, etc.

jbraucht said:
now you're scaring me. i have my vaio open in front of me and all i can think is "remember how much stumbling through freeing the captivate made you a crazy person? just wait."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, well maybe I was a bit too harsh. Really depends how anal you are about things working properly

I have faith in my ability to fix anything. I can't change the boot options on my vaio tho, I can't get to the right menu
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate

I recommend ubuntu. Compared to earlier years, almost everything just works out of the box, very basic and easy. You can load up a live cd/usb, install along side your current os with a very small partition size [I use about 8g out of my 120g hdd] because ubuntu is smart enough to read ntfs file systems, so it will be able to read anything that is on the windows partition as well. It will automatically install grub, allowing you to pick between os's when you boot, and everything is swell. Though i would upgrade to windows 7 first, as vista = crap

[Q] Pure android

Excuse me..
I'm nooby... I'm indonesian..I can speak little english..
I have question,
is it possible run android in blackstone without windows mobile ?
only android..

as of now, it isn't.
windows mobile initializes the hardware during its boot and it is not documented, which steps exactly there are. without this information, it is nearly impossibly to build a nandroid (android for nand flash) rom. also, the releases up to now are not stable enough, so there is the chance of bricking the device. however, you should prefer sd card android, because it is easy to install and safe, and as long as major features like full camera support, bluetooth... are still missing, it is no every day OS yet, and being able to switch between the 2 OSs is nice too. in case you are worried about the speed of android, when it is running on top of WM, don't be, the kernel is killed during android's booting procedure, so winmo does not actually run anymore.

As far as i know, it is not possible to use android as the main operating system on HD. But i have still hope for getting rid of sloww windows and using android o.s. as the main one. U can have a look at this thread : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=874906

indeed it's not possible, ive been using GBX0A however, and it is very fast on my Blackstone !
+ i can use it 2 days with calling/texting and stuff, maybe 3

Paitence dude the dev's are working on it and hopefully one day we will be able to rid ourselves of old school windows mobile