Database Users

Windows XP Embedded on HTC devices?

Hi folks
Recenty I got the Windows XP Embedded kit, and I was really satisfied and surprised with the performance of the directly built system on an old machine like a P1 @ 200 MHz with 64 MB of RAM, without a hard disk.
The main goal would be to run truly win32 apps on mobile devices, to give better functionality and compatibility.
Yet the builder supports x86 architecture only, but cannot be a big problem to port it to ARM pocessors.
What might be difficult are these things:
-Getting win32 drivers for built-in devices (ex. integrated SDIO/USB WLAN, BT adapter, touchscreen, and sound devices, and apps for them!)
-Saving user data on turning off (Ebmedded systems are designed for a workstation, like a cash register: prebuilt apps, and nothing more comfort ) like WM200x
If anybody has any suggestion are to get a warm welcome
bye

Yet the builder supports x86 architecture only, but cannot be a big problem to port it to ARM pocessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding me?
This would mean reverse engineering and recompiling every binary in the OS.
Do you have any idea how many hours something like that would take?

yup, you're right, but in theory it's possibe. I've seen a running DOS on a Microchip micro-controller, or for example the Atmel STK 1000 is Linux based, also seen an mPlayer app operational on the demo board at the college.
as you see, i'm not an experienced programmer, but i'm not afraid to ask
Yeah, the basic low-level binaries must be recompiled, and once it's ok, it might be usable with regular win32 apps, until you run an old DOS app, wich directly access the hardware.
A few years ago i was able to port Z80 software to 8086, and it wasn't easy.
I don't really know these things, just want to see opinions, possibilities, and suggestions.

exe files are binarys which are instructions directly for the cpu
it's not parsed by the operating system
so compiling the os is not enough every application needs to be recompiled too

The programs you mentioned have source available in one way or another (since DOS is very old there are clones, like freeDOS).
If you have the full source for an app and the right compiler, porting it to another CPU is feasible.
But, this is not the case with embedded XP. Getting the full source is impossible which means most of the system will have to be rewritten from scratch.
Just look at the Wine project to see what it takes, and they "have it easy" - they are just trying to simulate the APIs not change processor architecture. (Lets make it clear - ARM instruction set is very different from x86).
And as Rudegar said it will not let you run any program that has not been specially compiled for ARM CPU.
I know it sounds like we are trying to kill you idea here but its nothing personal, unfortunately it just isn't feasible. We would all like to be able to run desktop apps on our devices, but simply having embedded XP on them would not accomplish that. Also while many old DOS apps can be run using various emulators like pocketDOS, almost all Win32 apps take more resources than our little gadgets can offer.
I am fairly sure though that in 5 -10 years that problem will be fixed.

<_< man hours or not, reveng'ing this will have a bigger impact than just winDOS Mobile devices. Desktops have a use for this, definitely (because the Vista-Only crap is starting to hit the market). Too bad they don't provide assembly in programming classes anymore, obviously because they don't want anyone else to reverse engineer anything and spoil their foisting fun. <_<
In any case, IIRC XP Embedded is missing the install/uninstall engine, so you can't customize it after it's flashed onto the board. This isn't quite a good start - XPLite or 98Lite are better for reverse engineering from scratch (but they're too powerful for mobile devices).
The other alternative is porting ReactOS, which is a reimplementation of W2K. Those guys are "having a lot of fun" getting things to work, tho. <_<

Maybye Windows CE6 yes, but Windows XP Embedded no, because they must run at 686-AT/X platform IMB. Sorry of my English

linux would be a path
with most linux programs you can compile them yourself
using good old
./configure
make
make install
of cause gui programs could have issues displaying correct
on such a small screen

You MIGHT be able to pull it off by installing a minimal (very!) WinMo firmware and then have it autorun Bochs, which is known to be able to run the PC version of XP.. A customised, thinned-down XPe image should run fine under Bochs.
--W5i2

[Q] Windows 8 on ARM

As this is a developers forum - lets share here information on WoA (Windows on ARM) architecture.
What is known for now from different sources:
- WoA 8 would require UEFI to boot (instead of BIOS on x86), ACPI is required too. So no WoA to existing devices (they don't have UEFI/ACPI and I don't think that anyone would waste his time on emulating them).
- No native support for x86 apps on ARM, nor ARM apps on x86. Only .NET apps would work in both worlds.
But it is possible to create an emulator similar to DosBox that would run native x86 programs on WoA and, for example, I'm currently working in this direction.
- Though existing C++ apps can be recompiled for ARM from sources, it is not a 100% working solution. Current VS11 contains a rather limited set of ARM libraries - no DirectX libs earlier than 11, no import libraries for NtDll.Dll and similar DLLs.
I don't have access to any WoA builds, so I can't check whether these features are completely removed from ARM, or those LIBs are just not present in current VS11 build. But at least now we can compile test apps for ARM and analyze the code (though we don't have where to execute them yet).
- Native WoA programs use THUMB2 instruction set (ARMv7 and above). Though ARM instruction set would be supported too.
- According to "Microsoft Portable Executable and Common Object File Format Specification v8.2" WoA machine type in PE files would be 0x1c4, and some new relocations types are added (for example IMAGE_REL_BASED_ARM_MOV32T = 7). IDA understands such EXE files, though complains on relocs.
- SEH is implemented in a different way than on x86 (similar to x64, google for RtlAddFunctionTable to get the idea).
- WoA is more secure by default. For example TPM can be rarely found on x86, but it would be required on ARM.
- Most of existing drivers are source-code compatible with ARM (of cause if not using x86-specific stuff). But ARM would never allow to load unsigned drivers (unlike x86 Win7/8).
- As platform is completely new - all ARM drivers would be added to windows update site to simplify our life. Some obsolete hardware like 1394 is not implemented at all, so there would not be so many drivers for ARM llike for x86.
- All binaries would be the same for all SoC providers.
- No "native" ARM VisualStudio - developer tools are x86 only.
WoA requirements from different sources:
- 10.1” display with 1366x768 min resolution (though smaller screens may be supported with reduced functionality)
- Volume Control, Windows, Rotation, Lock power buttons
- Dual core CPU with hardware accelerated GPU
- at least 1 Gb RAM
- min 16 Gb fixed storage
- 100mW idle power in standby
- there are rumors that there would be standart "Phone call API" ("Apollo" UI)
Does anyone have access to ARM WDK? It would definitely contain a complete set of import libraries and would provide lots of info on WoA internals in headers/documentation. Seems that Windows 8 WDK on MSDN does not have ARM tools

so your bottom line says: no w8 on arm (ever)?

I'm not quite sure where you found that it requires ACPI. I didn't turn anything up.
The UEFI requirement is expected, and I doubt will be that much of a hurdle. UEFI is all open, and it should be pretty trivial to chainload a UEFI-compatible environment on top of the existing firmwares, provided that nvidia doesn't provide us with an implementation to start with, which I suspect they'll do.
For the emulator, I believe the best thing to do would be to provide something opposite of WINE, something that'd emulate the instructions, but pass API calls and translate between the two. A full Windows SDK will likely come out for ARM processors once it's finalized, if it's not already out. Have you checked in the Ultimate build of VS2011, or the express build?
Everything I could find relating to the TPM says that it's optional, but will be automatically utilized if available.
The rest is pretty inconsequental, at least to what I think most people here are interested in.
nvidia started a windows 8 development program for ARM (Clickey here), but I haven't seen anything else from it, has anyone else gotten anything?

mamaich said:
As this is a developers forum - lets share here information on WoA (Windows on ARM) architecture.
What is known for now from different sources:
- WoA 8 would require UEFI to boot (instead of BIOS on x86), ACPI is required too. So no WoA to existing devices (they don't have UEFI/ACPI and I don't think that anyone would waste his time on emulating them).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually they said it would continue to support BIOS for older devices.
See: Current machines dual-booting Windows 7 and Linux should be able to upgrade to Windows 8 without wiping out the Linux install. As Microsoft notes in the Building Windows 8 blog, “We will continue to support the legacy BIOS interface.” However, machines using UEFI instead of BIOS “will have significantly richer capabilities” including faster boot times and greater security. (from Arstechnica)

That's for x86. ARM was said to require UEFI. Besides, there is no real bios on Android tablets, at least not a common platform.

netham45 said:
I'm not quite sure where you found that it requires ACPI. I didn't turn anything up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got it in one of the "windows-on-arm" non-public documents dated the first half of this year. While UEFI,ACPI,TPM are an option for x86, they are required for ARM hosts.
So no custom WM8 bootloaders, drivers, patched kernel on ARM hosts (like "windows activators" do) until sign keys would be leaked or some backdoors would be found. Of cause this is good as this would make rootkit creation more difficult, and require device drivers signed by MS (so we'd get more stable OS) but I really don't think that this "protection" would last more than 1-2 months after WoA would be released.
For the emulator, I believe the best thing to do would be to provide something opposite of WINE, something that'd emulate the instructions, but pass API calls and translate between the two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm already working on such tool. It emulates x86 instruction set with dosbox or bochs CPU emulation library (I'm using both of them for debugging purposes, while working on my own one that would be much more simple->faster), translates x86 WinAPI to "native" host WinAPI + emulates API that is not present or differently implemented on WoA. It is designed to be truly cross-platform, so just a recompilation + creating several thunks/stubs would be necessary when I'll get my hands to an ARM host running windows8.
Of cause programs that use heavy anti-debugging, self-modifying code, undocumented features and SEH tricks would not work. Currently it is rather far from being finished (I have to implement&debug WinAPI and COM thunks that cannot be automatically generated) but old games like "heroes of might and magic" are already working fine in a test environment.
A full Windows SDK will likely come out for ARM processors once it's finalized, if it's not already out. Have you checked in the Ultimate build of VS2011, or the express build?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of cause I'm talking about "ultimate" VS11, as express is designed to target mostly .NET (though ARM compiler is present there too).
And WDK that it published on MSDN does not allow creation of ARM drivers. I'm currently in a process of renewing my company's MSDN subscription, so I can't prove that myself, but I've read that on OSR forums.

I am waiting to hack my iPad and put win8 on it

I would hope touchpad would be the next viable option. Hp could still make more and just dump W8 on it. Thanks all of you for working this thread. I will be reading your progress as it unfolds. Good Luck devs and if I can find anything you will be the first to know.
Sent from my mwp6985 / Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Some information on Win8 "Apollo" is available. Apollo - is a name for a new "windows phone" OS from MS.
- Apollo is based on the same "desktop" code as Windows 8. No Windows CE at last!
- Apollo would provide the same user experience as old Windows Phone 7.x - Metro UI, People hub, builtin office apps, etc. Seems that software compatibility with WinPhone 7.x apps would be preserved, but this is just my own guess.
- All applications on Apollo are required to be signed, similar to Windows Phone 7.
- Device drivers can be written only by IHVs, MS and OEMs, not by ISVs. This would be a problem for antivirus vendors or tools like daemon-tools.
- There would be a "built-in" eMMC card with OS and vendor partitions, and maximum one SD card. eMMC supports NTFS, SD-card supports only FAT/exFAT.
Build-in eMMC would have C:\ drive letter, SD-card would be D:\ if present.
eMMC contains several partitions. Some of them would be made readonly during boot.
- Near Field Communication is built in.
- The same list of sensors as in WP7 Mango is supported.
- There would be BSOD like in a desktop OS
- Unproven, but it seems that only .NET ("Splash UI framework" and "Silverlight") APIs would be available to independent developers. So no native code again.
- Seems that x86 architecture is supported for Apollo too.

Can x8 directly boot into another OS?

Is it possible to boot another OS like..idk, ubuntu or windows without having to boot up android? Something like direct boot? Just like our PC's do. Is it possible?

Since this question seems to burn on your poor soul ...
NO ... at least NOT for as long as you don't...
- ...write a fitting boot loader for the intended OS to kick-start its kernel and boot-strap the OS.
- ...find a way to re-partition the internal phone storage (aka "NAND") to meet the demands of the OS.
- ...wrote drivers to support the hardware (USB, Camera, Sound, WiFi, et al)
It may be possible to somehow directly boot a made-for-the-X8 Linux, but then the idea is rather pointless anyway as you would also need to code up the required applications to actually use the device as a phone (in case you missed it, you're holding a phone in your hands, not a tablet computer).
Throw away your hopes to see Windows 8 running on the X8 ... the device is not suited to run that OS at all (EDIT: or are you going to port the required Secure Boot enabled UEFI Firmware to the X8?).
Your best shot would be (after some intense development work) to get Linux or Windows CE up and running.

bogdan_mihai554 said:
Is it possible to boot another OS like..idk, ubuntu or windows without having to boot up android? Something like direct boot? Just like our PC's do. Is it possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes its possible you can run Windows 95 on X8 . Search on you tube for videos. After that search in Android development section/
But it will work partially

B.Jay said:
Since this question seems to burn on your poor soul ...
NO ... at least NOT for as long as you don't...
- ...write a fitting boot loader for the intended OS to kick-start its kernel and boot-strap the OS.
- ...find a way to re-partition the internal phone storage (aka "NAND") to meet the demands of the OS.
- ...wrote drivers to support the hardware (USB, Camera, Sound, WiFi, et al)
It may be possible to somehow directly boot a made-for-the-X8 Linux, but then the idea is rather pointless anyway as you would also need to code up the required applications to actually use the device as a phone (in case you missed it, you're holding a phone in your hands, not a tablet computer).
Throw away your hopes to see Windows 8 running on the X8 ... the device is not suited to run that OS at all (EDIT: or are you going to port the required Secure Boot enabled UEFI Firmware to the X8?).
Your best shot would be (after some intense development work) to get Linux or Windows CE up and running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, you're right ) windows 8 and ubuntu and too complicated for X8 to handle, but Windows CE would be really nice
Also, i've found an really small linux(Slax) and it would be really cool if we can get it running on x8

bogdan_mihai554 said:
Windows CE would be really nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many years ago (2002? 2003?) I had a COMPAQ iPAQ 3660 (which I even mod-updated from PocketPC 2000 to PocketPC 2002) - and a friend of mine had a 5xxx series iPAQ which where the first ones to come with a GSM slot.
Take my word that Windows CE would be pointless. Compared to Android Windows CE is not only hopelessly outdated but also the same crap as WP7.
If _I_ would want to have Windows CE/Windows Phone 7 device and be tortured to the ninth circle of hell by that steaming-pile-of-sh** Metro UI I would have gotten a brain removal surgery and bought one.
Having a true Linux up and running would be nice, but also pointless for as long as the apps to make calls and send/receive SMS/MMS are missing.

B.Jay said:
Many years ago (2002? 2003?) I had a COMPAQ iPAQ 3660 (which I even mod-updated from PocketPC 2000 to PocketPC 2002) - and a friend of mine had a 5xxx series iPAQ which where the first ones to come with a GSM slot.
Take my word that Windows CE would be pointless. Compared to Android Windows CE is not only hopelessly outdated but also the same crap as WP7.
If _I_ would want to have Windows CE/Windows Phone 7 device and be tortured to the ninth circle of hell by that steaming-pile-of-sh** Metro UI I would have gotten a brain removal surgery and bought one.
Having a true Linux up and running would be nice, but also pointless for as long as the apps to make calls and send/receive SMS/MMS are missing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 8 has Metro UI...I hate it )

Windows 8 and the Death of the Command Line(?)

http://catholictechgeek.blogspot.com/2012/08/does-windows-8-and-winrt-mean-death-to.html
The article above has my full thoughts, but I wonder if there is a bit too much push for the graphical user interface in Windows 8 (and WinRT) and because of this, the survival of the command line in Windows (the thing that a bunch of the rom tools run on) is in jeopardy.

Given how worthless winRT is, useful programs like kitchens will never, ever appear on them. MS will have to keep the command line unless they want to lose everyone to linux/mac.
Even android phones have a working command line.

Just thought I would confirm that the Command line (cmd) is still present in Windows 8. As far as I'm aware there was never any talk about removing it.

they will never remove the command prompt, neither the new powershell....
on RT version, the final user will never use it.. but I think that will be present...

m0nkf1sh said:
Just thought I would confirm that the Command line (cmd) is still present in Windows 8. As far as I'm aware there was never any talk about removing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, the command line is still there as well as PowerShell.
WinRT resembles Windows 8 in UI looks only. Nothing under that is the same as Win8.
It's like comparing an Android Device to a Desktop PC and wondering why you can't run the same programs on them.

Talderon said:
WinRT resembles Windows 8 in UI looks only. Nothing under that is the same as Win8.
hem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually it is still the NT kernel in WInRT adapted to ARM underneath I believe, similar to Windows phone, but yeah possibly no command line but i'd hope maybe powershell might be there...

And now the whole situation of "same program, different architectures" is back (after about 6 years).I remember back in the early days of Windows Mobile, you had the issue a developer releasing different builds of the some program for ARM, MIPS, and SH3. Eventually, ARM won out and program installation packages were (somewhat) standardized. Now, we have the issue between ARM and x86. Luckily, Microsoft has made this easier with the windows 8 store, so things aren't fragmented like before. This is probably why there is no real Desktop mode included in the ARM build of Windows 8.

Steven855 said:
And now the whole situation of "same program, different architectures" is back (after about 6 years).I remember back in the early days of Windows Mobile, you had the issue a developer releasing different builds of the some program for ARM, MIPS, and SH3. Eventually, ARM won out and program installation packages were (somewhat) standardized. Now, we have the issue between ARM and x86. Luckily, Microsoft has made this easier with the windows 8 store, so things aren't fragmented like before. This in probably why there is no real Desktop mode included in the ARM build of Windows 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see an issue with ARM vs. x86 in this same context as the x86 tablet will run like an Ultra Mobile PC.
ARM will be treated the same as Mobile Phones of the same architecture as it is today.

>However, there is still no word yet on whether Microsoft will include the command line for the ARM build of Windows 8.
According to this presentation slide of PowerShell 3.0 (at TechEd 2012), PS3 will support Windows RT. If PS is present, by extension CLI is available.
http://video.ch9.ms/teched/2012/na/WSV414.pptx

e.mote said:
>However, there is still no word yet on whether Microsoft will include the command line for the ARM build of Windows 8.
According to this presentation slide of PowerShell 3.0 (at TechEd 2012), PS3 will support Windows RT. If PS is present, by extension CLI is available.
http://video.ch9.ms/teched/2012/na/WSV414.pptx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there we have it folks!
I am still waiting on word on when we can pre-order the MS Surface. So far, from the Spec's everyone else has shown for their offerings, not much reason to jump ship to another brand. (yet)

Press Windows Key +X and you'll see two command prompts shortcuts...

this should be clarified - ROM tools in Windows RT aren't going to have a barrier in the shape of a command line so much as they'll have a barrier in that all current windows ROM utilities are either for x86 CPUs or Java (and java has no Windows ARM VM) and as such wouldn't run on WinRT's command line anyway.

I don't think an X86 emulator will be an option for Windows RT and the ARM architecture either.

The command line is actually alive and well in Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012. If anything Microsoft is moving the capabilities of the command line forward in recent years. The Power Shell allows to configure a huge part of Windows and Server Software based upon it (e.g. Exchange) that previously was not easily configurable through scripts.
Concerning Windows RT on ARM tablets the problems go much deeper than the command line. The RT-Apps won't be able to install device drivers for Smartphones to access them - this will also be true for official companion apps. Unless there is a class driver like for many printers, keyboards, etc. Windows RT simply won't support connection to those devices (again, this only applies to the ARM version).
For many reasons x86 isn't going anywhere and this limited support of peripherals is just one of them.

According to the Synofsky blog post, RT does support at least the v4 print class driver, but not v3. No mention is made for other peripherals, however.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/07/25/simplifying-printing-in-windows-8.aspx
It depends on what role MS sees for RT going forward. If RT is to be a limited OS to compete with Android/iOS, then printing support may be it. But if RT is to be a full counterpart of x86, other peripherals support will need to happen.
Looking long term, ARM will play a larger role than x86 in the trend of ever-smaller devices, with increasing emphasis on battery life. From this, my educated guess is that RT won't be the ugly duckling for long.
Let's face it, RT is a work-in-progress. Peripheral support is Windows' strongest card against the other mobile OS'es (and Linux). My take is that it will happen contigent to the above, but it won't be this initial iteration.
In short, don't take the limitations of this v1.0 as being cast in stone.

Talderon said:
Correct, the command line is still there as well as PowerShell.
WinRT resembles Windows 8 in UI looks only. Nothing under that is the same as Win8.
It's like comparing an Android Device to a Desktop PC and wondering why you can't run the same programs on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, that is factually incorrect. Windows RT shares substantial code with Windows 8, as Microsoft has confirmed many times in the Windows 8/RT development blog.

Windows Phone SDK 8.0 Download

The Windows Phone Software Development Kit (SDK) 8.0 provides you with the tools that you need to develop apps and games for Windows Phone 8 and Windows Phone 7.5.
Overview
The Windows Phone SDK 8.0 is a full-featured development environment to use for building apps and games for Windows Phone 8.0 and Windows Phone 7.5. The Windows Phone SDK provides a stand-alone Visual Studio Express 2012 edition for Windows Phone or works as an add-in to Visual Studio 2012 Professional, Premium or Ultimate editions. With the SDK, you can use your existing programming skills and code to build managed or native code apps. In addition, the SDK includes multiple emulators and additional tools for profiling and testing your Windows Phone app under real-world conditions.
System requirements
Supported operating systems: Windows 8, Windows 8 Pro
Windows 8 64-bit (x64) client versions
Hardware:
4 GB of free hard disk space
4 GB RAM
64-bit (x64) CPU
Windows Phone 8 Emulator:
Windows 8 Pro edition or greater
Requires a processor that supports Second Level Address Translation (SLAT)
If your computer meets the hardware and operating system requirements, but does meet the requirements for the Windows Phone 8 Emulator, the Windows Phone SDK 8.0 will install and run. However, the Windows Phone 8 Emulator will not function and you will not be able to deploy or test apps on the Windows Phone 8 Emulator.
Instructions
Choose the language version you want to install and click the Download button for the WPexpress_full.exe file. Follow the instructions to install the SDK. Note that each localized version of Windows Phone SDK 8.0 is designed to function with the corresponding localized operating system and localized version of Visual Studio 2012.
Note - Windows Phone SDK 8.0 installs side-by-side with previous versions of the Windows Phone SDK. You don't need to uninstall previous versions before beginning this installation.
Download the release notes which are in a separate file. For Windows Phone SDK 8.0 documentation and samples, see the Windows Phone Dev Center.
To start VS Express for Windows Phone, click the application in the Apps list. If you have Visual Studio Professional, Premium or Ultimate installed on the computer, the VS Express for Windows Phone shortcut won't appear. Instead, start your Visual Studio instance as usual and then create Windows Phone SDK 8.0 projects using the installed Windows Phone templates.
If you try to run a project in Windows Phone Emulator and Hyper-V is not enabled, you will be prompted to turn on Hyper-V. Turning on Hyper-V requires you to restart your computer.
Note: this release is also available in .iso format. Choose one of the following options for handling downloaded ISO images:
(Recommended) Write the image file to a blank DVD.
(Alternative) Mount the image file virtually as DVD devices.
Download WebSite: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=35471

So how do you learn how to use an SDK? I've always had an interest but there is never any obvious guide of how to program. I picked up UE3 SDK quickly but that is because there was like 30GB of tutorials on it, where can I do the same for this SDK?
Thanx.

You learn visual C#/B/C++. You do not directly use the SDK, you use the development tools in it

Venekor said:
So how do you learn how to use an SDK? I've always had an interest but there is never any obvious guide of how to program. I picked up UE3 SDK quickly but that is because there was like 30GB of tutorials on it, where can I do the same for this SDK?
Thanx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First learn Silverlight/C# and then read the SDK documentation,
To put it in simple words SDK just gives all the functions that u can use on Windows Phone.

Typically, if you learn any C# API (other than windows forms) you will learn all the others. They are very similar to each other, only some few twinks here and there due to platform differences.
---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------
The SDk is bugged, emulator does not work. Says it wants virtualization and my PC doesn't have it, when it clearly does. Both Android and Windows Phone 7.5 emulators work fine.
Kinda failish...from Microsoft.
oh well...the SDK system requirements are pretty damned huge. My CPU does not support SLAT apparently...

So I can just go to the Visual Studio website and follow the tutorials there? I have bad eye sight so I learn better from videos and listening instead of reading lots of text which takes me far longer to do. Luckily typing is easier as you know what you're typing on the keyboard so you don't have to pay as much attention on reading the text on screen.

Your processor needs SLAT support (extended Virtualization) also called VT-x by Intel. It is available from the Core i3/i5/i7 processors or newer AMD processors. This is due to the fact that the WP8 Emulator relies on Hyper-V instead of VirtualPC which was used for WP7. So if you have a Core 2 processor your hardware does lack required features. This is not a bug in the SDK.
On learning development of WP Apps there are series that take you around the SDK like this one: http://www.jeffblankenburg.com/2010/09/30/31-days-of-windows-phone-7/ It's still for WP7 but almost everything said there still applies for WP8, although in WP8 it was much extended. There are also Development Webcasts and Hands-On Labs you can try out. You can Google for those - there is lots of content on the topic.
But as was said before - it would be beneficial to know some C# beforehand.

I keep installing the SDK but visual studio express 2012 for windows phone doesnt appear in my start menu, says everything is installed fine, Any ideas?
Edit:btw using windows 8 x64 Evaluation Version

Do you have a regular version of Visual Studio 2012 installed? In that case the SDK integrates itself with the regular version and just adds the project type there.

StevieBallz said:
Do you have a regular version of Visual Studio 2012 installed? In that case the SDK integrates itself with the regular version and just adds the project type there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will be the one,, Cheers for reply.

Since no college near me teaches any programming and I have to work, I better start teaching myself.
Can any one tell me where to start?
Thanx.

Venekor said:
Since no college near me teaches any programming and I have to work, I better start teaching myself.
Can any one tell me where to start?
Thanx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://dev.windowsphone.com/en-us
http://www.windowsphonegeek.com/Resources
http://www.freebookspot.es/Comments.aspx?Element_ID=259285 (book)

Does WP8 have any new ringtones/notifications or wallpapers?
I dunno if that stuff would be in the SDK, but it'd be cool to have a dump of those files.

Weird Visual Studio basically does everything for you, I was expecting you'd have to make everything from scratch. Not what I wish'd for really as I did want that experience, those guides don't teach you how to understand the language, just how to create something quickly. Kinda like when you were at school reading from a text book and they never taught you the foundations of how to create your own sentences, always taught pre existing ones.

You can look for manuals for Visual C# around the web, there are a couple of free ones created by Microsoft, but you won't find any videos.
Once you understand the basics, it will be pretty easy to get started on creating complex apps. This is the beauty of C#

can anyone give me MD5 or SHA-1 hash of the iso? thx.

If you want to learn programming from the ground up I guess it would be best to start with a regular book on programming with Visual C# 2010 or something along those lines (2012 books are still rare I guess).
The problem with starting out on Smartphone platforms is simply that there is nothing like Console programs that allow you to easily experiment with language features without having to care a lot about more complex concepts like asynchronicity, Event-models, data-binding, etc.
While I can do a simple:
public static void main(String[] args) {
Console.WriteLine("Hello World!");
}
on the Desktop to arrive at a program that outputs those famous words to the screen on the phone it is more like with a PCs GUI programming.
There you have to instantiate a Window (or Page on the Phone), place a Label control (both of which are classes) and assign a property of the label to the text. Algorithmically a lot of information is hidden in those classes. This is mainly due to the fact that during actual development people don't want to and don't need to care about the details behind those things but for learning how to do things the effect is pretty devastating.
So my suggestion would be: Take a book on C# development and work through the basic concepts of Methods, Classes, Properties, EventHandlers and then before diving into the details of WinForms development switch over to the Phone SDK and acquaint yourself with the workings of the according UI Toolkit.

how can i tell if my computer has a processor that supports Second Level Address Translation (SLAT)
my laptp is intell pentum and my desktop is amd phantom x4?

Your laptop won;t support it.
I am not entirely sure about the AMD though.
There is a tool for that in the SDK download page.