Database Users

HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action for distributing ROMs

READ YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/06...kers-with-legal-action-for-distributing-roms/

I guess I know what i'll be downloading all day till I got work

That's for Windows Mobile.
hTC can't stop anyone distributing AOSP ROMs, but they could throw the hammer down on distributing their Sense ROMS.

Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.

wcdisciple said:
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
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Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
HTC is only one company of many building phones with Android. Whether you like Sense or not is your decision. G1 and MT3G (with google) were never intended to run with Sense. And no one can sue us for using AOSP ROM's. So i have no problem with it compared to apple, who will preselect the software for you...
Jailbreaking the iPhone isn't legal by the way...
PS: don't want to start an Apple/Android war, but leaving one company suing others for another company suing people since years and taking it for the reason why, seems a bit curious to me...

hudl said:
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
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He's been on a rampage with it.
On a better note: I don't think this will stop ROM development. Didn't xda go through the same thing, but HTC didn't care about the actual developed ROMs?
Edit: Can't find anything to support that. :/ Remember reading it somewhere - might have been bs, but I swear it was on xda news.

HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action - WORST MISTAKE EVER
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.

legend221 said:
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
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But they didn't take it down because of them being custom ROMs. They were all just the basic stock ROMs that came with the phone. Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP. However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs.

r3s-rt said:
Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP.
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There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
r3s-rt said:
However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs
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A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.

legend221 said:
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
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Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
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And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.

r3s-rt said:
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
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Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
r3s-rt said:
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
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Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.

legend221 said:
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
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You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
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Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!

r3s-rt said:
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
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Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
No one said the C&D came from HTC, seeing as you are a reader on xda I knew I didnt have to explain this to you. hahaha. It is in Google's best interest to let the Devs continue thier greatness because guess what many would jump ship to Windows Mobile devices or other OS including the iPhone even though there are not Roms for it I believe. If Android Development was not allowed to continue, at least most people would stop buying Android powered phones I believe.
Yawn........ time for bed now.

Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?

legend221 said:
No one said the C&D came from HTC
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Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
legend221 said:
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
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I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
Binary100100 said:
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
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I'm not under that assumption; I take you include me in the all. I just stated that at least this won't affect custom ROMs and he went on about how custom ROMs are so different and don't contain IP. That's what I've been trying to get across in all my posts. And no, I don't think their sales will be affected .

r3s-rt said:
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
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You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.

legend221 said:
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
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Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.

r3s-rt said:
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
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The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.

lbcoder said:
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
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1. Didn't even think about all that.
2. That's exactly what I thought. Microsoft is so scared of a lonely developer doing better than what their out-the-ass payed developers do. Honestly, why would the manufacturer of the phone give a damn what you do with it when you buy it? No matter what way you look at it: their task is to sell the phones they manufacture.

Customizing vs. N1

So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks

right now no one knows, there is no custom kernels, custom recovery, custom roms, etc

There are custom roms and you can easily root the device...but it will obviously take some time to reach N1's customization...

I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.

ultra spikey said:
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
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Exactly, plus the Black/Blue color scheme is far better looking to me over stock Android. TouchWiz is not like Sense or previous generations of the skin and that's a good thing.

Ill second that. I am really enjoying my touch wiz interface and I didn't think I would. That being said I miss my app drawer that slid up from the bottom.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I don't know much about flashing to different ROMs yet, but I can give you an overview of the TouchWiz experience from my viewpoint.
Coming from an iPhone, I really like TouchWiz 3.0. And believe me when I tell you: that was their goal with the UI. It screams Apple, in layout and function. But of course, it ultimately feels a bit like an imitation in some areas. I feel like they rushed TouchWiz 3.0 out of the door.
The Clocks and Alarms app is much better than the iPhone's, which is something I was not at all expecting. It's really quite nice. The calendar app is about on par, in terms of layout. The upper hand is that this syncs OTA with Google's cloud services. The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
All things considered, it's a really nice UI for Android.
That said, there are some really basic functions which did not make the transition from stock Android. For example: you cannot fully edit contacts in the 'Contacts' app. You cannot delete them, you cannot add custom ringtones. Coming from the iPhone, where I had meticulously completed the profiles of every contact with an obscene amount of info and custom ringtones, this is annoying.
There are a few 'little things' like that, which really matter to me. And this has kind of soured the experience for me, making me second-guess my decision. To be honest, I'm still sort of on the fence over this of the N1 as my iPhone replacement.
The grey area for me is in Android 3.0's release. Google has stated that they're going to overhaul the UI. The idea is that they want to make it more user-friendly, to make the use of custom skins less prevalent. Well, I'm all for this. Trouble is: will these handset manufacturers adopt it, considering their vested interests in their custom experiences?
Samsung's UI is definitely my favorite out of Sense, MotoBlur and the lot. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't wish for a Nexus One for the security of owning the only unlocked stock device.
Hope that helps...

Give it some time and stock Android will be on the Vibrant. Thats the great thing about Android and Xda.

Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.

The touchscreen is bad on that phone especially when it comes to multitouch. I'm sure you've already seen the videos comparing the two touchpads and the Vibrant's touchscreen is SO accurate... multitouch included.

Jon C said:
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
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While its a little early to be 100% yet but Android hacking is a lot different than iphone hacking. The iphone is a closed system and you have to wait till its broken open to update. Android is already open when its released. As for OTAs if Cyanogen supports the Vibrant then there is an app to download and install new updates. Typically if you stay with the same developer, like Cyanogen, then you don't have to wipe when there are updates.

After froyo 2.2 all my touch screen problems was gone.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

So untrue after froyo 2.2 those problems was fix the nexus one is a awsome phone.and I believe the same for the vibrant.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Can you do me the world's biggest favor?
Would you make some YouTube videos, showing the multitouch tests of your N1? I so, so, so, would love to own one, but I have zero tolerance for faulty hardware. I've been researching this stuff since the N1 launch, and it's the only thing holding me back from purchasing that device.
'Multitouch Vis Test' is probably the easiest way, but if you can think of others to test with, that would be great.

Jon C said:
The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
.
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I haven't used my iPod Nano 4th Gen in some time, I find that the N1 is handling my music needs just fine. But if I had a nickel for every time album art was hosed on my iPod Nano I would not have a mortgage anymore...

hah2110 said:
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.

psychoace said:
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
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Why can't CM do his thing?

cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen

blazewit said:
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
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I have yet to see any information confirming any of that. First on his twitter he only seems to be working on the Evo right now. Second I doubt he would work on the Droid x until it's rooted (which most likely will be never). Last I have seen only a small pattern of talk about someone in conversation with Cyanogen about allowing a Galaxy branch of the CM code for use with the Galaxy S. Problem is this doesn't solve the issue of not having source code for a few drivers. This does not even attack the issue of getting the rom onto the phone. So don't hold your breath for any of that.

yea your right it was just one site claiming that cm is working on the vibrant,from what i can tell gothdroid and a bunch of other g1/dream devs are working right now for custom recovery and porting cm6 and froyo asop

[Q] To flash or not to flash (Stock ROM to CM7 alpha)

For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?

Wrong Section, good question though
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

Cm7 nightlies - no longer CM7 alpha
It's true that this is probably the wrong section and I'm a noob too but before they bring in the new rules about minimum postings in the developer section, I'll throw in my ten cents.
Background:
US T-Mobile version of Mytouch4G and had no reason to be unhappy with the stock Rom but just love to scratch an itch and see what happens.
In the pursuit of seeing what happens I successfully rooted the phone to the point of permanent S=off (but not complete unlock as I have no need for that yet)
and over the course of the last few weeks systematically installed and tested three of the froyo builds/ports available on this forum.
Each have their strengths and weakness which are clearly listed so I wont catalogue the details I'll just say the following:
It's a lotta lotta fun! there was a geek in me waiting to get out and I finally see what the true potential is with this platform (android) - It's probably unlimited.
Aside from the philosophical point of wanting to have the freedom to do whatever with and put whatever you want on the device, that rooting facilitates (I’m a veteran of two generation of iphones), there is also that practical point that rooting does unlock the full potential of the device available right now which includes a host of apps already on the market only for rooted devices.
I don’t want to go into all those possibilities here because they are covered in detail in any google search but let’s just say that once you’re on the other side of the proverbial fence, the grass really is greener.
I know I’m being vague at this point, but let me continue a little longer.
Having also owned a number of windows based htc devices through 2005-2008 I’m no stranger to htc sense and some of the useful little gadgets that they seem to have evolved to a fairly decent level in android and I’ll say this:
Take away the surface veneer which is not as bad in the MT4G as in some others (bloatware) and you find that the meat and potatoes of the platform/operating system is all android.
And it runs MUCH better without the crap. – forget about overclocking (which helps and is fun) loose the veneer and the device flies.
And what you lose in the process – a couple of apps – you replace immediately with comparable ones for free down at the market.
So – phone runs better, can do more, has a host of better looking ui’s and themes that all the talented developers on this forum are constantly pushing out – then what about the risks?
I haven’t had a single hitch – not one.
I’m as impulsive as the next guy but I just took it steady with the information overload – carefully rooted the phone and from there, flashing one rom after another has become no more complicated than booting into recovery – case closed.
It’s become second nature.
And I’ve had to do a double take once or twice when something didn’t play out exactly as described but I’ve discovered that I had overlooked a detail here and there and it’s an easy fix.
Point being that there are constant warnings and disclaimers for obvious reasons, but my device at least has turned out to be very hardy – no scares here.
So finally, I’ve been eyeing developments in the gingerbread camp like everyone else and I’ve been wary of the alpha builds because my zero level of expertise keeps me from playing in that league and I see early this morning that an official CM7 release is out for my model the glacier.
At first I run I into problems flashing Clockworkmod to 3.0 and even try to flash the rom and boot from 2.5 with the predictable conclusion of a stuck boot loop all the while not really knowing what to expect from this ginger hype and whether it’s really worth the trouble of leaving my now very stable cooked froyo rom.
Someone then creates the thread a few lines up describing how to simply use rom manager to install the update for CWM 3.0 and at 2am I’m on my way.
I flash the rom and install the additional google apps and what do I find?
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
I won’t be overclocking it as a rule but I get 2805 on quadrant – previous high being in the 2500’s (each chip is actually different so I’ve heard that everyones score will vary)
The device has no lags, splutters, and runs quite literally incredibly.
and the look and feel of gingerbread? – I’ll add to what I said earlier – it’s amazing – it’s a moving graphical, visual feast.
It will seriously rain on apple’s parade when this thing hits the main stream and I think quite honestly that it’s the greatest mobile device operating system ever created.
I know I’m gushing but it really is that good and considerably more impressive than froyo while having the same core navigation and other functionality.
I won’t be going back.
I won’t endorse taking risks with your device but I’ll say it’s worth taking a look.
A few afterthoughts for those asking the questions:
There is a brand new version of the market packaged with the 20110115 version of the larger gapps file floating around on this forum – it also rocks!
Although most apps available on the market have not yet been updated for gb 2.3, they all work so far on my machine with one or two unimportant exeptions.
I’ve replaced all sense functionality with free apps off the market – no loss there.
The device runs smoothly and all functionality is tested and working in the latest release - great job guys doing the work here.
Long and the short of it being …it’s all good.
hope that helps.

Definitely worth a flash to try yourself. I mean it's CyanogenMod so how could it not be good?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would be very surprised at how extremely stable these roms are. I've been running them for a few weeks now and they're definitely stable enough to be your daily driver.
The main thing to consider is that Sense is a highly customized ROM while CyanogenMod is based on Pure Google with some additional configurations available.
Try it out, it's pretty easy to go back if you don't like it. For a while there I was nandroiding back and forth between Sense and CM6 about twice a week, lol.

CM7 some after thoughts
Continuing from my earlier post, I thought I would head off a few questions about observable differences in gingerbread - well the CM7 incarnation:
Android market loads and populates faster.
The wireless radio picks up signals/networks faster and connects gracefully and quickly.
All aspects of the functionality of the whole system and each individual app seems to be smoother and more efficient.
Youtube no longer has that annoying glitch coming out of landscape.
My new 16bg class 6 mini sdhc card finally works and no longer gives me the blank card or damaged card bull crap every time I unmount or remount from usb mode – didn’t expect that one and had resigned myself to going back to the stock 8gb card it shipped with.
The app drawer pops out at you in what seems like 3d while leaving the background wallpaper intact. – so the app drawer just floats while you scroll through it.
Every aspect of the device and systems are customizable – I mean everything – probably in part due to the efforts of the CM7 team.
The stock gingerbread phone dialer app is changed for the better and is obviously one of many enhancements including the ability to program your sip (voip) settings straight into the phone doing away with third party apps altogether to make or receive calls (if you’re into voip)
You’ll have to dig around to find the .apk for the stock car/navigation mode app and I solved that riddle by downloading the free android app(car home) from the market and also installing a third party app (car mode control) which is used to launch it – I’ve been lazy and haven’t investigated yet whether it’s actually necessary to have the go between, but it works.
and swype, if you want it, can be downloaded direct from the guys that developed it at the beta.swype page (wasn't allowed to post the link) - by simply registering to test the latest beta, which is better than in the stock MT4G rom.

Someone report the first post to have this moved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Whosdaman said:
Someone report the first post to have this moved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't realize it had to be reported. I always assumed that because you're a mod you can do whatever the hell you want.

Well in your case just pick current RC fork from repository and use it normally you don't have to wait for the SR fork. Unless you are dev I don't see why you would want to flash it every night unless you understand basic and even in that case weekly might be fine. I been there done that as flashing new rom everyday as it came down the pipe I tried few CM7A few times let the dev do more work as ill make that my rom when SR is out, ATM have IGv1.1.6 as I flashed it this afternoon.

matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you thought your phone was fast out of the box, this is faster. If you thought it was a bit laggy (like me), it's like getting a brand new phone.
Also, having better experiences with CM7 GB on MT4G than I ever did on my Nexus S. This is saying a lot.

ZeroSX said:
Also, having better experiences with CM7 GB on MT4G than I ever did on my Nexus S. This is saying a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me. Such a smoother experience all around.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

I just flashed & I must say it is a much smoother expericence. I love it & its not even a stable build.

matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this your first Android phone? Have you ever played with a Pure Google Experience Android phone? If you're nervous about the CM7 builds, try CM6. Easier to flash since you don't need to manually flash the recovery and it will give you a feel for CyanogenMod and the Pure Android feel.
Think of the G2, that comes with plain Android right out of the box. Go to a T-mobile store and poke around with it to see if you like it.

I simply cannot stand the HTC Sense stuff... Personal preference.
I had CM6.1 for a couple weeks and I am VERY happy with it. I am waiting another week or so to start using the CM7 builds just because I have been too busy with other stuff.

neuralboy said:
It's true that this is probably the wrong section and I'm a noob too but before they bring in the new rules about minimum postings in the developer section, I'll throw in my ten cents.
Background:
US T-Mobile version of Mytouch4G and had no reason to be unhappy with the stock Rom but just love to scratch an itch and see what happens.
In the pursuit of seeing what happens I successfully rooted the phone to the point of permanent S=off (but not complete unlock as I have no need for that yet)
and over the course of the last few weeks systematically installed and tested three of the froyo builds/ports available on this forum.
Each have their strengths and weakness which are clearly listed so I wont catalogue the details I'll just say the following:
It's a lotta lotta fun! there was a geek in me waiting to get out and I finally see what the true potential is with this platform (android) - It's probably unlimited.
Aside from the philosophical point of wanting to have the freedom to do whatever with and put whatever you want on the device, that rooting facilitates (I’m a veteran of two generation of iphones), there is also that practical point that rooting does unlock the full potential of the device available right now which includes a host of apps already on the market only for rooted devices.
I don’t want to go into all those possibilities here because they are covered in detail in any google search but let’s just say that once you’re on the other side of the proverbial fence, the grass really is greener.
I know I’m being vague at this point, but let me continue a little longer.
Having also owned a number of windows based htc devices through 2005-2008 I’m no stranger to htc sense and some of the useful little gadgets that they seem to have evolved to a fairly decent level in android and I’ll say this:
Take away the surface veneer which is not as bad in the MT4G as in some others (bloatware) and you find that the meat and potatoes of the platform/operating system is all android.
And it runs MUCH better without the crap. – forget about overclocking (which helps and is fun) loose the veneer and the device flies.
And what you lose in the process – a couple of apps – you replace immediately with comparable ones for free down at the market.
So – phone runs better, can do more, has a host of better looking ui’s and themes that all the talented developers on this forum are constantly pushing out – then what about the risks?
I haven’t had a single hitch – not one.
I’m as impulsive as the next guy but I just took it steady with the information overload – carefully rooted the phone and from there, flashing one rom after another has become no more complicated than booting into recovery – case closed.
It’s become second nature.
And I’ve had to do a double take once or twice when something didn’t play out exactly as described but I’ve discovered that I had overlooked a detail here and there and it’s an easy fix.
Point being that there are constant warnings and disclaimers for obvious reasons, but my device at least has turned out to be very hardy – no scares here.
So finally, I’ve been eyeing developments in the gingerbread camp like everyone else and I’ve been wary of the alpha builds because my zero level of expertise keeps me from playing in that league and I see early this morning that an official CM7 release is out for my model the glacier.
At first I run I into problems flashing Clockworkmod to 3.0 and even try to flash the rom and boot from 2.5 with the predictable conclusion of a stuck boot loop all the while not really knowing what to expect from this ginger hype and whether it’s really worth the trouble of leaving my now very stable cooked froyo rom.
Someone then creates the thread a few lines up describing how to simply use rom manager to install the update for CWM 3.0 and at 2am I’m on my way.
I flash the rom and install the additional google apps and what do I find?
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
I won’t be overclocking it as a rule but I get 2805 on quadrant – previous high being in the 2500’s (each chip is actually different so I’ve heard that everyones score will vary)
The device has no lags, splutters, and runs quite literally incredibly.
and the look and feel of gingerbread? – I’ll add to what I said earlier – it’s amazing – it’s a moving graphical, visual feast.
It will seriously rain on apple’s parade when this thing hits the main stream and I think quite honestly that it’s the greatest mobile device operating system ever created.
I know I’m gushing but it really is that good and considerably more impressive than froyo while having the same core navigation and other functionality.
I won’t be going back.
I won’t endorse taking risks with your device but I’ll say it’s worth taking a look.
A few afterthoughts for those asking the questions:
There is a brand new version of the market packaged with the 20110115 version of the larger gapps file floating around on this forum – it also rocks!
Although most apps available on the market have not yet been updated for gb 2.3, they all work so far on my machine with one or two unimportant exeptions.
I’ve replaced all sense functionality with free apps off the market – no loss there.
The device runs smoothly and all functionality is tested and working in the latest release - great job guys doing the work here.
Long and the short of it being …it’s all good.
hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you see a link for an official CM7 release for this phone?!?!

Q.Entity said:
I simply cannot stand the HTC Sense stuff... Personal preference.
I had CM6.1 for a couple weeks and I am VERY happy with it. I am waiting another week or so to start using the CM7 builds just because I have been too busy with other stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know that's how I felt when I bought the phone. I kept thinking about returning it for a G2 just to get plain Android. Ironically, by the time I finally rooted my phone and flashed CM6, Sense had grown on me to the point that I kept nandroiding back and using it by choice. Ha!
Now I've been on cm7 for a few days and I'm pretty happy with it.

CM7 official nightlies
I can't post a link out but the link to the CM7 builds is usually towards the top of the mytouch 4G Android Developement forum page.
It's constantly being updated and it looks like the latest build takes care of a number of little issues including swype, google car home and maybe the apps pack too

To those voting not to flash, have you tried CM7? What's keeping you from being happy with it?
I just flashed it myself and am pretty happy with it. The experience is much more consistent than the stock Sense ROM, gingerbread is really fast/smooth, and CM7 adds a lot of options for customization. Wifi isn't working though.

matkam said:
To those voting not to flash, have you tried CM7? What's keeping you from being happy with it?
I just flashed it myself and am pretty happy with it. The experience is much more consistent than the stock Sense ROM, gingerbread is really fast/smooth, and CM7 adds a lot of options for customization. Wifi isn't working though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reboot for wifi to work.
BTW, CM7 is slick as an iced glacier.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

neuralboy said:
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has got to be the biggest fanboism i've every heard on any forum. Gingerbread is not that different from FroYo. It looks the same it feels. it acts the same.
To the OP If you want to flash the most current baked variant of Android then by all means flash away. If not FroYo will serve your needs just fine.

Vanilla (stock) ICS vs. Sense 4.0 + ICS

In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.

Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

alaman68 said:
Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

PsiPhiDan said:
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

It's a *good* thing the phone comes with Sense, its one more option you have, and Sense does add some useful features. Custom rom's will offer all kinds of options including optimized and bloatware free versions of Sense.

alaman68 said:
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree. I'm kind of thinking of galaxy nexus, cuz I'm not fond of sense. But, I'm sure in no time we'll be able to rip sense OFF that SOB and put AOKP or some other variant of vanilla ICS.
Then, if you wanna run sense for a few days, that option will still be there. It's win-win.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

If I'm running Sense 4.0, do you think I'll still be able to get the Quad ICS unlock screen, or something like that? I LOVE that lockscreen - way better than the silly ring that Sense creates. I don't understand why they didn't change that from 3.0 and 3.5 to something fresh. Oh, I would assume I have the "unlock with face" option too on this phone? It's been so long since I ran Sense, I forgot if these things are changeable or not!
My only concern with the custom ROMs is whether things will run okay, like camera and such. Also, if you are running AOSP, you'll miss out on the supposedly amazing camera suite that Sense 4.0 provides, right?
Tough choice!!!

Sense 4.0 + ICS ALL DAY!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

imheroldman said:
I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's awesome, especially considering the One S is inferior to our EVO we're getting...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

Well I will answer my own question at this moment, because I stopped into a T-Mobile and played with the One-S for about 10 minutes. It appears that ICS as we know it is VERY coated by Sense, but not necessarily in a bad way. It is still beautiful, just very different. I noticed that there were no quick settings in the notifications menu, which is one thing I was very curious about. But overall, really nice and REALLY amazing! Considering that is the crappy version of our EVOs, I cannot wait for this thing. The One-S screen was awesome, and I know it can't touch the screen (both size and resolution-wise) of our new toy coming out. But the UI was terrifically smooth, the feel was nice (physically), and Sense was overall not intrusive. It was just omnipresent. I'm not disappointed at all - and I know the devs will give us amazing options in terms of removing Sense, or tweaking Sense to give us cool features like quick settings and slide to change brightness.
I can't wait until the One-X is out so that I can play with that one, since it will give a much more accurate portrayal of our experience we can expect. May 18th can't get here soon enough!

I'm posting this everywhere . Its a post by toastcfh over in the oneX forums about how much HTC locked the phone down. Among many things, it is impossible to mount SD from recovery due to their locking, even with custom recovery and HTC dev unlock. If toast says it, it is so, I mean, the guy is an Android/Linux GENIUS. he's the one that had the Evo root method instructions posted before launch day.
Quote.....
no, USB mount does not work in recovery. It appears to be locked out in recovery mode. the workarounds to get it working are one of two things.
(1) fastboot boot awesomeRecovery.img (this works because fastboot then boots recovery on the boot/temporary partition. So the you're not actually in recovery mode
(2) Offmode (this works because again you're again not technically in recovery mode. It uses the recovery ramdisk, kernel, and binaries but its still not technically recovery.
On that note I've seen suggestions that it's possibly a recovery issue with cwm and twrp. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the case. If it were then in CWM u wouldn't have usb when u fastboot boot the recovery or in offmode (fair assumption since both these options use the same kernel, ramdisk and binaries as recovery?). Can it be fix? Not that i know of. It looks to me like a total radio or bootloader lockout from using USB in recovery. Which means on a radio or bootloader level USB is disabled in recovery mode.
On that note I think we should raise the point to HTC that this locking down of the device does not suite our needs.Key points of fail would be as follows.
(1) Can NOT flash the boot partition from recovery. I've personally contacted HTC on this numerous times and they seem to just not care. Responding with "It's a security issue" and so forth. I would love to know how this is a security issue of any sort. Every other Android device has this ability except HTC devices since they started the HTC unlock ordeal. It's utter fail IMHO and HTC should listen to our needs .
(2) Can NOT flash recovery or boot partitions from system. This issue is NOT a deal breaker and isn't so bad when it comes down to the nitty gritty. But since the issue above exists, flashing with applications like htc dumlock and such were our only options. These work around apps cant be used to flash now because of the lockpout from system and it wouldn't be such an issue if HTC didnt lock us out in recovery from flashing boot.
(3) Can NOT flash P*IMG.zips in hboot/bootloader anymore. For the unlocked device running a custom firmware this is a must. Specially when radio updates and such are needed from the OEM. We seen a big use of this on the Sensation when HTC updated the device from Gingerbread to Ice Cream Sandwich. The update required new hboots, radios, and partitioning to actually use. So in that instead of having to flash a RUU Which didn't exist the only choice was to flash a custom P*IMG.zip that included all the radios and images need to run the builds. At this point we can't update those image/partitions without flashing an RUU. This makes no since and doesn't seem to do anything but make things more difficult on the unlocker to customize and modify their device.
(4) If all the conditions above HAVE to exist. Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
(5) WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HTC UNLOCK? I was to reach out and except us as a community. It was to keep us from having to exploit their firmware and look for holes to gain control of a device we rightfully own. WHAT DID HTC UNLOCK DO? It unlocked the devices at first and with each new revision of the unlock it gets more locked down and harder for us to use it as intended. WHAT DOES THAT LEAD TO? It leads to us hoping someone will take the time out of their life and exploit HTC's firmware so we can have access and control of our devices. I mean, it's bad when u have people poking a device with a paperclip to get a device unlocked to avoid a official unlock.
Bottom line; I'm personally fed up with HTC's unlock. It's absolute crap! It does not serve the purpose it was intended and only makes things harder then they were before. As a devoted HTC customer it has me questioning if my next device will be an HTC. With all the other options that would allow me to spend less time trying to gain proper access to my device and more time actually having fun with it, why choose HTC? Everyone else is shying away for these same issues. Everyone with an HTC unlocked device waits for someone to exploit HTC's firmware and give them a proper unlock. Why not just choose a device without the locked down/unlock instead? IDK but HTC needs to step up and listen to us. Every HTC forum with an HTC Unlock is screaming for these issues to be fixed.
My call to HTC is to fix these issue and/or give us proper documentation on flashing firmware to our devices via custom recoveries. The boot flashing lockout is dumb, pointless, and in NO WAY a security threat AT ALL and is nothing more then a CRAP RESPONSE to something that they sould be working to correct, instead of ignoring. In the end its hurting HTC's relations with developers and is ultimately doing the opposite of what it's original intent.
HTC, PLEASE READ AND LISTEN!!!11ONEone
To everyone else, SPREAD THE WORD!!!ONEone
End quote.........
There has to be a way to petition HTC. Reading this is making me lean galaxy Nexus, ...and I F$%kin HATE Samsung.
Edit: this post is from the One X forum TWRP topic.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

No way I'm buying a Samsung phone.
I'll trust that someone will figure out how to get around the issue at some point. I love how the phone is stock anyway.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

PsiPhiDan said:
In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There IS PLENTY of apps on the play store that offer home screen and lock screen customization, such as launcherpro, milocker, gosms, as far as changing the status bar and battery bar i'm not so sure, i haven't been on a phone with s-on in a while and can't tell you what rootless tweaks would work

[Q] Why do we need devs? [Discussion]

Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.

The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.

There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium

maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?

Exactly!
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How do you not see a need for developers?
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It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.

The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.

The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.

I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.

Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app

Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".

Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig

I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.

The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.

Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
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