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an iPod Touch/iPhone can play 3d games, utilise the g-sensor and run smoothly - for example racing games. Tilt the iPhone, the car turns.
Why can't our phones run these sort of games? Or is it just the case they haven't yet been produced?
From what I'm aware a Diamond is more powerful than an iPhone therefore these games "shouldn't" be a problem?
Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, just kinda thought there should be iPhone-esque software for these phones now.
I am right with you, i keep thinking the same thing.
Because Apple has crazy fanboys and they provided a simple infrastructure to facilitate payment and downloading (appstore). They also gimped the iphone out of the box so as to pretty much require people to sign up for the appstore if they actually want to use it, ensuring that they have the user base they need for it.
Now the iphone has several million users - how many Diamonds do you think are sold? Windows mobile itself is bigger, but the capabilities of the phones running it vary too much that profiting from making advanced games is as feasible.
I have wondered about this as well. I think the problem is 3 fold
Firstly, the Diamond has 3d and graphics performance issues for sure. Sometimes my Diamond will slow down terribly when running some simple animations. I have read that HTC are notorious for providing poor graphics drivers and this could be part of the reason.
Secondly, I actually dont think Windows Mobile is capable of doing what the iPhone UI is capable of in terms of interactive gaming.
Thirdly, Apple provide your at home developers a great business model to go out and develop great games and apps for the phone. Plus with the Appstore they know that if they develop something good, people will see it - there is only one place to get apps from - and the developer will make money.
For me, the iPhone is not the right phone, but I would love Windows Mobile and HTC to be able to do what the iPhone and Apple can do.
The iPhone has v-sync, so the 3d graphics are drawn smoothly with no tearing and sadly win mo just does not. At least that is what my mate said who is a games developer. The power is there but you just can't get it to the wheels! This just makes it fundamentally unappealing to a lot of developers.
yeah totally agree, i love the diamond, but i've been using windows mobile for years now, and each new model HAS generally got better and better. however the iPhone is just something else.. for people who aren't nerds and into mucking around iwth their phone etc, i could never recommend a windows mobile over an iPhone. its just so much more polished compared to the diamond.
i'm an AMD fan too, godamnit why do i always have to back the underdog
Yes, even though i have a diamond and have had great fun tweaking it, i still can't help but envy the iPhone users for their graphically superior games and video playback prowess .
Another explanation would be that iPhone games are developed solely for... u guessed it, iPhones! ...whereas WinMo games have to be developed to run across many different devices, with (or lack of) accelerometers, touch screens etc. Therefore, to achieve this interoperability / compatibility across the many different devices, compromises have to be made.
That said, there are still gd games for our beloved devices, my favourite being PDAMill, whom develop aesthetically pleasing games with intuitive controls, and they're cheap too.
Nudge.
So all in all, will it become possible? And what's vsync? Portable to diamonds?
I think V sync is something to do with the way images are drawn to the screen, and it is just not implemented in win mo, I don't know if it could be written into the drivers or of it is a hardware thing, but then I don't actually have a clue what I'm talking about! Can anyone confirm this?
vsync actually makes bad performance even worse since it forces the back buffer to wait until right after a screen refresh before it copies its data to the frame buffer.
it's great if the device is capable of rendering an FPS that is higher than the refresh rate, but in the diamond case it's just another fps thief
if you want games like iphone get an ipod touch. The diamond never advertised gaming as a capability. Think of it this way: The iphone is like a mac with mediocre hardware but also comes with a mid range video card. The diamond/touch pro are like PC's with raging motherboard/cpu/ram combo, but bottom entry level video card. You can get a lot done with the PC, but the fun factor lies in the mac.
Go buy virtual pool mobile, it runs great and it's very fun. Its the best pool video game ive ever seen actually.
Simple reason
The reason to me is simple: Apple cares about user experience. Just look at win mobile contacts, or explorer. Do you think this software is made for 2008-2009 hardware? Now look at iphone's ones... Seriously, Microsoft has the power to make good things for mobile users, but they released win mo 6.1 one year ago, which is mainly the same OS that existed in 2003.
Silly we when we buy pocketpc running on windows mobile.
Just to revive a dead thread for quite a good reason..
I've seen a few videos on Youtube and also a few write ups on the wonderful Tinterweb in relation to Windows Mobile devices running and successfully playing iPhone games through emulation.
Is this just simple hear-say or fake ? I've been thinking for a long time about focusing simply on making the graphical capabilities of the diamond better through customising the graphics drivers. That's the main flaw for me.
According to a few posts the graphics card has 64MB dedicated memory.. is this right?
If so, these things SHOULD be capable of running bloody good games but the drivers are just nowhere near good enough. I did hear about changing to ATI drivers - is this right? If so, where can I find the info on this cause I would like to maybe bash at hybrid-combining the drivers and modifying them a bit as to allow maybe a bit more fluid graphics. If you check one of my other posts on the Diamond, I've been complaining about split-graphics. It's really getting on my nerves as I'd rather just see a full picture move around my screen fluidly. None of this "split it up" rubbish.
Cheers
Driver dev
This seems to be a good thread with most/all of the available drivers posted.
well I have been enjoying copy + paste and fully working GPS on my Diamond ever since
now why hasn't Apple offered this so far?
I guess each company chooses their own battles
glumetu said:
well I have been enjoying copy + paste and fully working GPS on my Diamond ever since
now why hasn't Apple offered this so far?
I guess each company chooses their own battles
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrrm.. In the new 3.0 SDK update for iPhone 3G and iPod Touch which will be released soon there is copy and paste + redo.. in a very stylish and functional way.
And there will be mms + almost every single function that the iPhone was lacking before + some more.. many, many new stuff for improved gaming, new OS improvements etc.
I watched the presentation on the apple website..
Shoddy_me said:
Hrrm.. In the new 3.0 SDK update for iPhone 3G and iPod Touch which will be released soon there is copy and paste + redo.. in a very stylish and functional way.
And there will be mms + almost every single function that the iPhone was lacking before + some more.. many, many new stuff for improved gaming, new OS improvements etc.
I watched the presentation on the apple website..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stuff that should have been released last year. The only reason Apple is releasing it when they are is because people's 2 year contracts are starting to expire, and Apple wants to try and persuade them from leaving by finally giving them features they've been demanding from day 1.
Honestly, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I knew Apple would do that.
Heres my question:
Smart phones and windows mobile operating system have been around for something like, oh, 15 years now. Why is it some EMO company like Apple releases a phone (badly I might add) and it becomes THE Benchmark for mobile devices? Its just purely unbelievable to me that so many people obsess over "well the iphone can do this, and it can do that.. I want my ______ to do what the iphone does..." If you like the turd and all its glory so much, why don't you just buy one and get it over with??
the iphone is so easy to use, thats why so many people bought one. when everyone has something, it becomes the norm to judge other things by. think of the model t from ford
Model T?
Confused.com. Is that the foreign (for me) Focus? lol
Anyways, I've looked about and the ATI drivers have given me the power boost I'm happy with. However - My images are still split on the screen.
Still trying to get this fixed...
You don't have to read this, you can just vote.
Ok, we have all heard about OS 3.0.
Faster, multi - tasking, A2DP, other bluetooth improvements such as file transfer, MMS, video capture, onboard video editing software included, etc..
The new iPhone to be released end of June is also going to have a few hardware changes. Have heard that it is 16 to 32 gb, that there is a 5mp autofocus camera with a quality lens on back, and a 3mp on the front (compared to our VGA), thinner (of course, pretty much a guarantee), possible bigger and sharper screen, etc...
It seems to me as if Apple has really (unlike MS) done what a company should...analyze the competition (primarily Android but also webOS and RIM), and redesign and improve their product accordingly. They have gotten rid of pretty muh all of the stupid annoyances, made it faster and smaller, and given developers much more access to different system level things for their apps, along with about a million other changes and improvements that you can and probably have read about. I am also really thinking that they will have good integration with things such as facebook, gmail, and outlook.
I really think there will be no question and that it truly will be the #1 device really without any competition. The only competition I can see is maybe something such as the HTC Magic that is thinner, has a larger, higher res screen, and comes stock with unbranded Android 1.5 (such as some of the HTC line up we have seen).
I just DESPERATELY hope that Apple isn't so stupid and naiive as to not put on MORE BUTTONS! Buttons are always better...always having to quit what you're doing and go back to the home screen to do ANYTHING would drive me insane...I love texting on my HD, then pulling up the phone and calling someone, sticking it on speaker, then going back to texting...that's not too much to ask I don't think.
So vote!
As for what I'm doing. I am jumping ship to the new iPhone. If I find it doesn't satisfy me, I will sell it and get the best Android handset I can find. Hopefully something like the Magic, but thinner, having a bigger, more high res screen, and comes stock with unbranded Android 1.5. If no new non - keyboard Anroid handsets are out by that time...Magic it is! (if it is ever released)
im gonna have to see the official specs and the actual device before i decide anything,if what is mentioned is true then perhaps. but im looking more at the Palm Pre than the iPhone, we will see
Ok, firstly MS is doing something about it, they are working on two new OSs at the moment, secondly its not MS that makes the phone, this is the problem and the holy grail with WM phones, firstly its a problem because MS has no say what hardware is used with its OS, this means like its desktop cousin it needs to support many things well and i believe to an extent it achieves this, but it doesnt excel at any of them. Its the holy grail because with the Iphone, you get 1 phone, 1 set of gear, 1 design for every possible usage, with WM devices you get exactly what you want because you have the choice to choose different phones, different specs and design for your needs.
Im leaving out Android here for 1 reason, it sucks, no no hear me out, apple has a HUGH following with its iPods which translate in to potential iPhone sales, android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good but its an alternative to the evil of Microsoft and ties of Apple which makes then appeal to others and thats fair enough, its a market as good as any.
But here is the reason ill be sticking with my Microsoft Windows Mobile based PDA, it works, it works fairly quick, it looks as good as an iPhone and i can install pretty much anything i want on it. Weres Tomtom for android or the Iphone? where is memory Map? where is the ease of use when syncing with Outlook? wheres Igo8? core player? world card mobile? the various language programs? all my security and tracking programs, the million and 1 apps available on the net, free or paid that have a propper support base if it all goes wrong, data retrivel?
some of those i use every day, i use many others every day, and yes there may be alternatives for some, but unless i can get them ALL working on one of the other two devices ill not change because i need them all and thats as simple as it gets.
With a desktop OS you can dual boot or virtual PC it, an thats fine if thats your thng, but you cant do that at the moment on the PDA and even if you could i doubt i would because its a hassle i can do without, WM works and works well enough and im sure its only going to get better.
And what will be the screen resolution of new iPhone?
Current iPhone is a no go for me - with such low screen resolution reading eBooks and surfing the internet is really, really bad.
Waiting eagerly for the new iPhone so definitely jumping ship...
I've got a Mac and syncing is nearly impossible. I've tried all sort of apps but none worked perfectly. I really need to sync address book and calendar and I've had enough of transferring mp3 files one by one, artwork not working etc etc.
the mp3 function is very important for me and the iPhone is perfect for that.
only problem I've got is I don't like the iPhone's current design. It's so 2 years ago. Hopefully they'll come up with a nice sleek design.
Why are Windows Mobile Apps falling behind IPhone ones?
One of the things that has always interest me when making such a decision is: What do developers think? How do they view developing for iPhone versus for winmo platform?
To gain insight into the thinking of developers, including some rather big names in winmo application development, you guys might want to read these extremely interesting threads:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html
and
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6481405#post6481405
dazza9075 said:
Ok, firstly MS is doing something about it, they are working on two new OSs at the moment, secondly its not MS that makes the phone, this is the problem and the holy grail with WM phones, firstly its a problem because MS has no say what hardware is used with its OS, this means like its desktop cousin it needs to support many things well and i believe to an extent it achieves this, but it doesnt excel at any of them. Its the holy grail because with the Iphone, you get 1 phone, 1 set of gear, 1 design for every possible usage, with WM devices you get exactly what you want because you have the choice to choose different phones, different specs and design for your needs.
Im leaving out Android here for 1 reason, it sucks, no no hear me out, apple has a HUGH following with its iPods which translate in to potential iPhone sales, android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good but its an alternative to the evil of Microsoft and ties of Apple which makes then appeal to others and thats fair enough, its a market as good as any.
But here is the reason ill be sticking with my Microsoft Windows Mobile based PDA, it works, it works fairly quick, it looks as good as an iPhone and i can install pretty much anything i want on it. Weres Tomtom for android or the Iphone? where is memory Map? where is the ease of use when syncing with Outlook? wheres Igo8? core player? world card mobile? the various language programs? all my security and tracking programs, the million and 1 apps available on the net, free or paid that have a propper support base if it all goes wrong, data retrivel?
some of those i use every day, i use many others every day, and yes there may be alternatives for some, but unless i can get them ALL working on one of the other two devices ill not change because i need them all and thats as simple as it gets.
With a desktop OS you can dual boot or virtual PC it, an thats fine if thats your thng, but you cant do that at the moment on the PDA and even if you could i doubt i would because its a hassle i can do without, WM works and works well enough and im sure its only going to get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. We all know MS is doing something about it. But we also all know that virtually all MS products suck. We also all know that MS is SLOOOW...therefore (like I said), by the time winmo 7 is released, it will already be behind. It will be released around 3rd quarter 2010...that's ridiculous. Another year from now Android will no longer be so new, and Apple will have put out something entirely new as they know ppl will be getting tired of iPhone by then. Not to mention what RIM and Nokia will be doing.
2. Where is the basis that Android sucks? It is faster than WM, that much is for sure. It is also more customizable. It is more modern. 3rd party app support does not make an OS good or bad....your argument that they suck cuz they don't have apps is no good to me. Sure it can make or break the success of the OS but...that's got nothing to do with the OS itself. Android has a LOT on WM and WM has...virtually nothing on Android. It looks ancient, it runs ancient, and it's that simple. I think we can all agree on that last line there.
3. "android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good"
- Gotta admit that you really lost me there.
4. Windows Mobile is in fact rather slow, even on good hardware with good drivers.
5. Windows Mobile crashes all the time even fresh after a hard reset, no apps installed, on an official ROM (just like the desktop Windows!)
6. iPhone has better syncing solutions that ActiveSync and Outlook.
7. Just FYI to all reading this...I am a Windows user and have been for years (all my life). I am not an outsider looking in and criticizing Windows w/o due reason and experience. I recently installed OSX86 on my PC however and...it truly is really nice. MS sucks. Bottom line, and there is really no avoiding it.
8. All OS's have pro's and cons. There are just as many if not more arguments against all your arguments for Windows Mobile. My point is simply that the new iPhone truly is a lot better than any Windows Mobile device running the latest WM 6.5.
MrYdude said:
And what will be the screen resolution of new iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No kidding. Couldn't agree more. Coming from a Touch HD and having looked at a lot of friends iPhones...their screens look terrible when reading text (altho they do have 16 million colors compared to our 65,000. Side note: Android also has 16 million colors).
Sadly though I have read that they plan not to change the resolution in order to keep all apps usable. I reallly hope not.
It's true, MS does not have any influence on the phone hardware.
However, an operating system's success is not about hardware potential or software potential or about a combination of both: it's about a tangible offer of potentially attractive software which can be easily obtained via a single entry point, i.e. an APP STORE. That's currently the BIGGEST drawback of the WM platform. I love the customization part of WM but it took me ages to get there. Many users won't take that road and therefore go for the iphone.
There's also a lock-in effect to this -> More users to an OS platform means that developing for that platform gets attractive, thus attracting developers and making the apps offer even more powerful. That in turn increases the chances of attracting new users to the platform, etc.
Honestly, considering all this, do you really a 50 megapixel camera or a nVidia Geforce 8800 GTX in your phone ?? What about all the already hidden potential in your phones which never gets explored because developers and users do not get a realistic chance to discover all of its limitations ?
I'm pretty sure that the new iPhone does not support multi-tasking, you're still stuck to doing one thing at a time. I believe Apples official unofficial stand on it is that they spent way too much time and money on their failed push notifications, and they're not going to allow multi-tasking. (Apple does not like to say it's wrong...and if they would release multi-tasking, I'm sure they'll call it something else, and put a patent on it for no reason).
You know what...
I just love the WM and WM based devices.
They have ALL i need
They are fully customizable and have fully multitasking support.
With iPhone, you will get what it is, and you will get stucked with iTunes and online store
Many iPhone apps (though looks amazing) are not so usable
I just need functionality much more then a great user interface
Peace all
Well i won't go for the Iphone i have my HD and i'm stuck on it to change something that good you need to buy something "special" and from the looks of it the new Iphone will be a bit better than the last one so why do i give a great amount of money to switch to something "a bit" better.Let's see Palm Pre and other Android devices now the market will be devided not only for WM an Iphone but Android and Palm OS also so i won't hurry to go for the new stuff as you can never know which one is better until you try them for at lesat 4-6 months maybe even more....so let's wait and see "newer" is not the same as "better" .
andes83 said:
Well i won't go for the Iphone i have my HD and i'm stuck on it to change something that good you need to buy something "special" and from the looks of it the new Iphone will be a bit better than the last one so why do i give a great amount of money to switch to something "a bit" better.Let's see Palm Pre and other Android devices now the market will be devided not only for WM an Iphone but Android and Palm OS also so i won't hurry to go for the new stuff as you can never know which one is better until you try them for at lesat 4-6 months maybe even more....so let's wait and see "newer" is not the same as "better" .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think it is going to be more than "a bit better".
As you saw there are hundreds of features and fixes in the new OS, plus new hardware changes such has considerably better CPU, double the RAM, better camera, thinner etc..
iori said:
You know what...
I just love the WM and WM based devices.
They have ALL i need
They are fully customizable and have fully multitasking support.
With iPhone, you will get what it is, and you will get stucked with iTunes and online store
Many iPhone apps (though looks amazing) are not so usable
I just need functionality much more then a great user interface
Peace all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iori,
There are lots of misconceptions about iPhone, so I don't blame you for having incomplete or wrong information.
iPhone is extremley customizable too, and you too can have multitasking once jailbroken. Therefore, you do not get what it is - you get what you want it to be. You don't get stucked with iTunes and online store. You get the benefit but you can also get things outside iTune and online store.
Whoever gives you the idea that the iPhone aplls are not useable does not know what he is talking about. When app store was first available, many low quality applications did get listed. Not anymore. Whether you're an advanced IT network adminstrator, sales executives, finance director, web site marketer, shipping agent, there are really nice applications for you. Trust me on this one. Don't just anyhow believe people who tells you that iPhone is just a toy and winmo is for corporate use. iPhone can be as corporate as you want it to be.
Cheers.
Anyway, iPhone is still quite poor on the GPS domain.
6 or 7 apps (park lane, radar, around me, traffic, etc) to do all that my iGO can natively do... and still no turn-by-turn soft buyable on the iPhone.
I want a real all in one, and neither the actual iPhone or the next one won't be a real one. My friends who own an iphone have all get a specific GPS, and well, everything's said...
Roupette said:
Anyway, iPhone is still quite poor on the GPS domain.
6 or 7 apps (park lane, radar, around me, traffic, etc) to do all that my iGO can natively do... and still no turn-by-turn soft buyable on the iPhone.
I want a real all in one, and neither the actual iPhone or the next one won't be a real one. My friends who own an iphone have all get a specific GPS, and well, everything's said...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's tue still. If you're in US, there is an application called G-Map, which on the surface looks quite decent, but nothing outside US yet. However, this is expected to change with Firmware 3.0. The reason why there was none in the past was because Apple did not allow any such application, thanks to their stupid policy. Respectable company like Tom Tom would of course refuse to release it into the "underground" cydia store. With the policy change by Apple, TomTom is expected there soon.
I'm all for having everything in one device too, and GPS has been a sore point for me. The other sore point is the fixed battery, but that I can accept because iPHone's battery life is not bad.
1, im sorry but your statment about everything MS produces are rubbish, is in fact rubbish, i cant comment what you do with your PC / Mobile but i rarely have system crashes, on my mobile i cant even remember the last time i was forced to do a hard reset, on my desktop im using one of the most stable OSs ive ever used and its BETA! I do agree it takes them time to produce the software and i do agree that in the past SOME of their projects are flakey but not all.
"2. Where is the basis that Android sucks?"
You miss the point of an OS here, if nothing good works on an OS NO ONE will use it, its that simple, If i cant use the programs i need then that OS is useless to me, it may have a place in the linux following groups who challenge everything MS and claim to be better than everything else but in the real world if i cant use what i want to use its useless. MS also has a massive software base including various distribution sites, some free some not, everything is cated for. Android looks no better than my WM device with Touch flo, its no quicker, i know this because i have both of them sitting in front of me.
Because something is more modern doesnt make it good, take the Pentium 4 over Pentium 3 as an example. but i agree android IS more customizable
"Android has a LOT on WM and WM has...virtually nothing on Android"
Really? a LOT is a big statement that i bet you cant quantify with factual information and not hand back subjective reviews and "feelings" about things.
"It looks ancient,"
The core OS does yes, but tell me, is android not a Shell over a command line? i believe it is, So technically the core OS on android looks crap too but thats just nit picking!
"it runs ancient"
that makes no sence, only and new programs work on it fine, quick and responsive so what makes an OS ancient?
3. "android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good"
- Gotta admit that you really lost me there.
Ah yes i was refering to Linux and its intresting cult of followers but i retract that statement as it was below the belt.
"4. Windows Mobile is in fact rather slow, even on good hardware with good drivers."
nope, it isnt to me, graphics wise its slow compared to hardware excelerated devices, whats bizzar is that the phone can still pump out ok graphics on its CPU and still multi task, if qualcomm released graphics drivers for many of the 7xxx based chipsets i think you will find a near perfect device. but even without that it works....just!
"5. Windows Mobile crashes all the time even fresh after a hard reset, no apps installed, on an official ROM (just like the desktop Windows!)"
I really cant comment, since WM2002 ive not had that on a multitude of different devices. and Windows doesnt do that either, perhaps the common denominator here is the user.
"6. iPhone has better syncing solutions that ActiveSync and Outlook."
quantify please?
"7. Just FYI to all reading this...I am a Windows user and have been for years (all my life). I am not an outsider looking in and criticizing Windows w/o due reason and experience. I recently installed OSX86 on my PC however and...it truly is really nice"
I too have used Linux, OSX and all the different versions of Windows and they have there places i do agree that in different markets different OS's suit different people. but tell me which one of those is the best for all markets all be it perhaps not as good as the other OS's designed for those markets?
"MS sucks. "
you lose all credibility with that statment attact a spacific product if you choose but to say Apple sucks or MS sucks is crazy and wrong.
"Bottom line, and there is really no avoiding it.
8. All OS's have pro's and cons. There are just as many if not more arguments against all your arguments for Windows Mobile. My point is simply that the new iPhone truly is a lot better than any Windows Mobile device running the latest WM 6.5."
You started off well there, but lost it at the end, PROVE to me that the new OS is better on the Iphone? without using speculation and subjective views an opinions.
I believe MS will be increasing the colour depth on the new devices but i doubt it will make any significate difference, except in its speed. what the WM based devices need is some new tech that uses resistive screens without the 70% (about that) loss of light, that in turn would increase battery life. Dont say capacitive screens, a stylus can be very useful, but definitely a combination of the two somehow.
there are 3 killers for me with the iphone
1. no gps (it has a chip but nothing other than gimmickey apps for it)
2. resolution too small
3. no multi tasking - if I can't listen to mp3's while driving on my bluetooth stereo whilst having TomTom tell me where to go its no good.
Now we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with TomTom but unless they sort the other 2 issues I wont even be looking at it, let alone ditching my beloved HD.
lancemate said:
there are 3 killers for me with the iphone
1. no gps (it has a chip but nothing other than gimmickey apps for it)
2. resolution too small
3. no multi tasking - if I can't listen to mp3's while driving on my bluetooth stereo whilst having TomTom tell me where to go its no good.
Now we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with TomTom but unless they sort the other 2 issues I wont even be looking at it, let alone ditching my beloved HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Lancemate,
How do we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with Tom Tom? I must have missed that information somewhere.
I'm too disappointed with Steve Jobs for not providing multitasking. So, looks like we still have to jailbreak to get that.
HD's resolution is very nice. No doubt about it. Although vast majority of the applications (phone, weather, music player for example) would not really miss this. Web surfing is in my mind a leading exception, as it would be nice to be able to clearly read the font without zooming in. It is for me a compromise, although an acceptable one for myself. I guess one has to take everything into account (multitouch vs resistive, number of applications available, speed, smoothness, stability, user interface, etc) and decide for oneself if such a compromise is worth it.
its all over the internet mate and has been for a while
example
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._0_app_highlights_tomtom_gps_line_6_more.html
lancemate said:
its all over the internet mate and has been for a while
example
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._0_app_highlights_tomtom_gps_line_6_more.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm aware Tom Tom and Navigon will be available, but as separate purchase rather than being shipped with the phone. Guess I misunderstood what you said. Thanks anyway.
Just a blog re: ICS enabling full hardware acceleration of the GUI. We've all figured it would make our tablets sprint but this is putting things in a new light so I figured I'd post it here.
Linky
I'm sure the programmers and people on top of Android out there knew this. It sort of worries me though. Keeping in mind, Apple is running a totally different system - it sort of makes me respect iOS more so, to know that such a smooth system exists within the limits of 256MB of Memory when we're going upwards of 512MB and still having 'issues'. Don't jump down my throat, I don't want iOS (or an idevice), I'm just sayin'.
Jesus. I've known for a long time that there is something wrong with the way Android accelerates stuff and the whole UI design paradigm, but that's just boneheaded o_o That begs the question though: who made the decision to implement acceleration in such a horrible way and why wasn't it designed properly from the get-go? Anyone who has the slightest experience in OpenGL programming would've been able to tell them they're doing it wrong.
What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in OS development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.
FloatingFatMan said:
What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.
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Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.
You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!
autom8r said:
You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!
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Uh, it is a bad implementation. You can have both a good implementation AND still balance priority of both the rendering queue and application threads, they are not mutually exclusive.
WereCatf said:
Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.
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If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.
Gnoop said:
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.
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The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.
WereCatf said:
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.
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Indeed. Being able to handle both of those would hook me in pretty easily.
And it worked. Got Mango'd and updated. Woohoo.
In May I left for android. WP hardware is just 2nd or even 3rd class in comparison. However, I do like windows phone. In looking at the upcoming releases, and the partnership with Nokia, the hardware gap should close.
So I turned the dell on for grins. And I still like it. My current droid is the bionic. No comparison, hardware wise. But is wise, WP is the way to go.
With the new leadership over at Microsoft, and Nokia in the mix, the future looks good...imo.
I'll probably wait on Apollo, but look forward to the move back.
I have been on android for years and just can't go back to it. Reminds me of Windows ME. It is a necessary evil.
I have a few Dell Streaks and I just updated 1 to see if gingerbread helped at all, and it did not. Mind you I unbloated, deoxded and cleaned it out and it is still slow, chunky and very annoying to wait for.
My mango dvp so far is the best OS i have had. It is simple, it works, and it is quick. I have easily over 100 apps on my dvp and it doesn't slow down..
the kicker for me is..
I can have bluetooth headset on, navigon navigation running, do a voice text back and forth and not miss a beat. Something I could never do on any android device and I had a few.
I think Apple and MS have the right idea when it comes to having a closed OS. I am sick of manufactures loading garbage like Samsung and HTC.
Thinking about the lumia 900.
Krad said:
I have been on android for years and just can't go back to it. Reminds me of Windows ME. It is a necessary evil.
I have a few Dell Streaks and I just updated 1 to see if gingerbread helped at all, and it did not. Mind you I unbloated, deoxded and cleaned it out and it is still slow, chunky and very annoying to wait for.
My mango dvp so far is the best OS i have had. It is simple, it works, and it is quick. I have easily over 100 apps on my dvp and it doesn't slow down..
the kicker for me is..
I can have bluetooth headset on, navigon navigation running, do a voice text back and forth and not miss a beat. Something I could never do on any android device and I had a few.
I think Apple and MS have the right idea when it comes to having a closed OS. I am sick of manufactures loading garbage like Samsung and HTC.
Thinking about the lumia 900.
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Yeah, I'm looking at it too. I can't wai. I may delay until laer in the year to see what verizon does though. Problem is, tmobile only has low end phones. Don't care for att. Verizon is so android and so mad at ms, windows phone will not be included.
My bionic is far superior to any windows phone, hardware wise. But the operating system on my dvp...I love it. I won't mind paying full price for a new windows phone that has acceptable hardware.
fingers cross for next year's rumored "wp super phones" with apollo.
weatherx said:
fingers cross for next year's rumored "wp super phones" with apollo.
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I can't imagine a super phone from Microsoft. I would rather have an Operating system on the phone that will link 'all' of the Microsoft features and services, without gimmicks. I would love skydrive to be more versatile. I would love to be able to stream my music from a skydrive like cloud. In fact, a do more cloud presense, with flexibility would be great. I like how Google and Amazon Music allow streaming. Zune is fine, I like it and have a subscription. But I want that cloud storage access.
After being in the Android world for most of the year, I see great ideas, but horrible quality control. Its too freakish...though I have the Bionic....I really want to be back on Windows phone. Hardware is the ONLY reason I am not.
I read somewhere about speed of the dual core phones vs the single core. What came into play was the amount of available RAM. Many Windows phones have 512 or less RAM. Most new Androids are all at 1g. Some people are pointing to this as part of the speed difference many people associate with processor.
I think consistency and steady improvement will bring Windows Phone back. Anyone read the article online the other day about the mismarketing of Windows phone and how it would have been better off being markedted as the xPhone????
alodar1 said:
I can't imagine a super phone from Microsoft. I would rather have an Operating system on the phone that will link 'all' of the Microsoft features and services, without gimmicks. I would love skydrive to be more versatile. I would love to be able to stream my music from a skydrive like cloud. In fact, a do more cloud presense, with flexibility would be great. I like how Google and Amazon Music allow streaming. Zune is fine, I like it and have a subscription. But I want that cloud storage access.
After being in the Android world for most of the year, I see great ideas, but horrible quality control. Its too freakish...though I have the Bionic....I really want to be back on Windows phone. Hardware is the ONLY reason I am not.
I read somewhere about speed of the dual core phones vs the single core. What came into play was the amount of available RAM. Many Windows phones have 512 or less RAM. Most new Androids are all at 1g. Some people are pointing to this as part of the speed difference many people associate with processor.
I think consistency and steady improvement will bring Windows Phone back. Anyone read the article online the other day about the mismarketing of Windows phone and how it would have been better off being markedted as the xPhone????
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i've seen pretty convincing arguments on why more ram doesn't really benefit windows phone, given allocations to apps--it's somewhere on xda. and honestly at this point i haven't seen convincing evidence that dual core does what they claim to do (i.e. LOWER power consumption compared to single core at low load). seriously, look at the battery capacity of dual core phones. some extra cpu speed is nice, but that's not where the bottleneck is.
weatherx said:
i've seen pretty convincing arguments on why more ram doesn't really benefit windows phone, given allocations to apps--it's somewhere on xda. and honestly at this point i haven't seen convincing evidence that dual core does what they claim to do (i.e. LOWER power consumption compared to single core at low load). seriously, look at the battery capacity of dual core phones. some extra cpu speed is nice, but that's not where the bottleneck is.
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I agree with you on that. I have my dell, on wifi, running along side my bionic on wifi. The dell doesn't handle my wifi n very well.... but....side by side...the bionic is faster in access. alot faster....no...just enough to notice. Some apps run better on the bionic compared to the dell....like facebook and twitter. Working with the bank of america app, the dell was better.
but what I really noticed was the battery. I am approaching 48 hrs on my dell, and I'm at 40%. I've had to recharge the bionic 3 times in that same timeframe. To be honest, it could be the LTE. But, i've been home for most of that 48hrs. So I've been on wifi. The bionic is supposed to override the lte when wifi is on. I don't know if this is an android thing...or an lte thing or what.
Just watched the Nokia presentation at CES and the introduction of the Lumia 900. Unless something else comes up...that might be my next phone.
alodar1 said:
I can't imagine a super phone from Microsoft. I would rather have an Operating system on the phone that will link 'all' of the Microsoft features and services, without gimmicks. I would love skydrive to be more versatile. I would love to be able to stream my music from a skydrive like cloud. In fact, a do more cloud presense, with flexibility would be great. I like how Google and Amazon Music allow streaming. Zune is fine, I like it and have a subscription. But I want that cloud storage access.
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Have you tried the SkyDrive App ? load your music up and stream away !
PaullikesWINMO said:
Have you tried the SkyDrive App ? load your music up and stream away !
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I loaded it but did not look at it....trying it now. If it does what you say....next stop Nokia 900
alodar1 said:
I loaded it but did not look at it....trying it now. If it does what you say....next stop Nokia 900
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won't stream. it will do a 1:1 song play...unless I missed something
My contract is over soon, and it is a great time to get a new phone because I have so many choices being a Verizon owner. When I saw the HTC 8X i fell in love with the design. It apparently fits great in the hand, feels thin, and is silky smooth in terms of hardware.
However, I knew i needed more options, so, being a current Android user and loving its software, I started to anticipate the HTC DROID DNA, a 5' 1080p beast of a phone supposedly coming out around the same time as the 8X (end of November). I continued to do research on both and found out that I like the WP8 Start Screen a lot more than I like Android's homescreens.
But I am afraid of the software of WP8. It's great and all, but I may miss the PhotoSphere, live widgets, quick settings, apps (!!), and outstanding developer support that Android offered. I'm afraid I will need those features down the line and not be able to use them with my WP8 device. I have a Surface and a Zune and want integration. However, Android has SkyDrive and Xbox Music available in Google Play.
So I'm kind of in a pickle right now. I want integration and functionality, but Android has everything and then some. Help guys! What do you suggest I do? Stay on Android or switch to WP8? Personal experiences would be helpful; however, blanket statements/generalizations will not be tolerated because I hate them very much. Also because there are always two sides to those statements, and I want this to be a friendly thread, not one that I am going to regret posting. Thanks in advance for your help, guys!
I suggest you start using paragraphs.
You have a lot of apps in the windows phone marketplace. Probably not with the same name, but if you need something, you usually find that something.
IMO, Windows Phone is vastly superior to android in many, many ways. They give you a lot more control over your devices (apps can't do things behind your back without your approval unlike on android), the system is a lot more stable, the battery life is usually better due to hardware optimizations, and much more smooth. I suggest you pick a nokia instead though, they have great apps in there, including free music downloads through nokia music.
mcosmin222 said:
I suggest you start using paragraphs.
You have a lot of apps in the windows phone marketplace. Probably not with the same name, but if you need something, you usually find that something.
IMO, Windows Phone is vastly superior to android in many, many ways. They give you a lot more control over your devices (apps can't do things behind your back without your approval unlike on android), the system is a lot more stable, the battery life is usually better due to hardware optimizations, and much more smooth. I suggest you pick a nokia instead though, they have great apps in there, including free music downloads through nokia music.
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I would've wanted the L920, but I'm not waiting 6 months for it to come to Verizon. Nokia apps aren't necessary for me; I don't drive and don't really use Maps too often.
Drive and maps aren't the only things nokia has. In fact, these two are available to all windows phones 8.
I don't need them, tbh. However, I'd be happy to take them if a high-end Nokia phone came out on Verizon. Anyway, off-topic. What about Xbox Music and SkyDrive? They are on both Android and WP8.
i really like the new devices. im sure once microsoft sees how they sell apps and such will be growing. im on the same boat although im not ready for an upgrade for another year and a half these new phones will be plenty caught up with development and should be pretty similar to all these new phones coming out within the next few months.
I'm due for an upgrade with Verizon in December. I was looking at Nokia 920. Too bad it's not Available Until 6 months.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
So you guys are saying that i won't miss out on all the features of Android?
Sent from my PIMPED OUT MIUI 4.1.1 Fascinate
You physically cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a small screen that is found on a phone (think like 26 to 32 inches is where you can start seeing it)
Just so the screen resolution isn't what sways your final choice.
However I find myself missing my WP a lot ever since it broke and I got stuck with the GS3. For me WP is just better. Specifically the keyboard is way better in WP.
As for applications WP has all the ones I use anyways. Fun fact I find I use my android less than I used my WP. I think its because for me it seems to take longer to get to the application I want to use and it feels that android has less smooth scrolling than WP. Of course I'm on stock which is probably why its slow, but my WP was stock too.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Dadstar said:
I don't need them, tbh. However, I'd be happy to take them if a high-end Nokia phone came out on Verizon. Anyway, off-topic. What about Xbox Music and SkyDrive? They are on both Android and WP8.
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Both of them will obviously be on WP, since they are microsoft's creation. You will also like Nokia Music -> free unlimited music.
PhotoSphere seems to me to be very similar to Microsoft's Photosynth which has been available for iOS and Windows Phone for a long time.
Concerning Apps I would suggest you ask around the forums for particular Apps that you need, so people can tell you wether they exist or if there is a viable Alternative. XBox Music will be coming to additional platforms but as far as I know it currently isn't available and following Microsoft's track record with those things you will have it available on iOS months before it arrives on Android.
SkyDrive is available as an App on Android. The difference in usage is in the integration. SkyDrive Images show up in the Pictures Hub pretty much the same as if they were on the device itself. I just drop an Image into the according folder on my PC and it shows up where all my pictures show up. It's the same with office documents (if you use those).
So while the functionality itself is there on Android the experience of using it is superior on Windows Phone. But this works the other way round as well. While GMail works reasonably well on WP it simply works better with the GMail App on Android.
Wow. I'm getting really excited for my 8X now. Thanks guys!
Sent from my PIMPED OUT MIUI 4.1.1 Fascinate
I'm kinda in the same boat as OP. Currently enjoying my Galaxy Nexus but I'm mad that it's got VZW's taint all over it. Does Microsoft handle the updates for WP8 and doesn't take BS carriers when it comes to pushing them out? I like constant security updates, and Android just can't seem to handle that.
I want a Nokia because I've heard they're great but the 822's display won't cut it with it's resolution for me if it's anything like PenTile. I'm thinking about ditching VZW when my contract is up if it doesn't get the Nexus 4 (doubtful it will) so I don't know if I'd use my upgrade on any of VZW's WP8 lineup. The Nexus 4 still has these beat when it comes to unsubsidized pricing.
The only other thing keeping me from WP8 is that I heard there was a lack of a good turn-by-turn app and no notification center. Both of these are kind of turn-offs. But the UX, fluidity, Start, and Microsoft-handled updates are quite enticing.
Same dilemmas for me guys. I'm working at Nokia and have tested both new Lumia devices and they really are awesome. While I like the design of the 820 and how it feels in the hand, the display of the 920 is far superior. The 820 has just an average display imo, it is bright but not very sharp, given the low res and poor pixel density (217 lol..). Other than that it is quite the smooth operator and really a pleasure to handle. The thing about it's big brother is that it is kind of uncomfortable to hold and I don't like the rather sharp edges.
I am now debating with myself if I should go for a WP8 device since the OS is just awesome or get one of these http://android-sale.com/xiaomi-phone-2.html as soon as it becomes available. You cannot deny the bang for your buck with these, though I am a bit afraid when it comes to warranty and customer support + you cannot really play with the device beforehand. I was waiting for the new Nexus but I think it is disappointing and especially fragile with that glass backcover. I was even considering an iphone because of the smoothness since I've really grown to hate the android lag which is present even on latest quad cores....But after using a 4S for a whole evening I cannot imagine myself doing this daily, it is just too limiting and I fail to see how people say it is so 'easy' and it 'just works' - well it just works with more steps than android or wp...But that is another topic of course.
As for the apps, I am currently using around 40-50 apps on my droid and all of them (EXCEPT DROPBOX, mind you..) are available on WP. The development frameworks for WP8 and the support for DirectX, and also the shared core with windows 8 will surely attract alot of devs and app number will grow in the coming year. I have to say that the windows phone store might not have so many offerings, but the design, fluidity and and general look is just stunning. So is the whole WP8 ui. For example, I think the so much praised iOS app store looks terrible and is a pain to navigate throug. Play Store on the other hand is very functional and easy to use but looks plain and boring.
Well well, this is my pov, I think I will be getting a WP after all but let's see. Maybe I will buy the xiaomi device if it is possible, simply because of the price/spec ratio + I love MIUI, since it is as if you are not using android.
You don't need dropbox, you have skydrive.
mcosmin222 said:
You don't need dropbox, you have skydrive.
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I have to disagree with you, dropbox is very light and useful, also a lot of users have quite some storage space on dropbox and would like to have it available. Not to mention that I know a friend of mine has a small company where they run 100Gb+ shared dropbox folders full of working data. They sure cannot force all employees to go windows phone because of skydrive or the other way around. So yeah, lack of dropbox IS a big minus.
You still have dropbox on WP. just checked xD
mcosmin222 said:
You still have dropbox on WP. just checked xD
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Isn't it some 3rd party app? Btw I think I'm fully converted now, just played around with the city lens app and tried some offline maps. **** is ca$h
Dadstar said:
Wow. I'm getting really excited for my 8X now. Thanks guys!
Sent from my PIMPED OUT MIUI 4.1.1 Fascinate
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Hi Dadstar, I recently switched from a Lumina 710 (Windows 7.8) to a Samsung Galaxy Note II (Android-Jelly Bean) and I will give you some of my perceptions.
1. Note II is a remarkable phone, unbelievable screen, and some really cool apps.
2. Lumina 710 was a solid phone, but after the screen size of the Note II, I could never go back and settle for a small screen.
That being said, the Lumina 710 is way ahead of the Note II in voice dialing over bluetooth. I would never have to get my Lumina out of my pocket to make a call (I have about 1200 contacts in Outlook with multiple listings for each), but with the Note II, it is a constant battle of it being slow to decide who it thinks I want to call and then gives me multiple choices on the screen. So it really defeats the role of voice dialing over bluetooth and that is a deal breaker for me and I am sending the Note II back within the 14 day trial period. Hopefully, Tmobile will come out with a new Windows 8 phone soon. Ken B.
Google announced Nexus 4 for 350$! Thats a steal..but as the dust settled, and the picture became clearer, it is for anything but that price..So, I am with the OP on this one too...
8X or N4??
On one side, you have a large display, quad core processor et all...and on the other you have a dual core, with the same sized screen as I have now. Also, with Android, there are tons of apps and games I can get (sometimes for free).
SO, Will i sacrifice a smoother OS for an OS that may not be that smooth but has tons of other features...?