Related
Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.
I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.
Thanks, that is all.
I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.
And I agree.
That is all.
Translation:
All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.
Sad that people act like this.
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
Thanks for the translation...
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.
Then there are those who just attack me because they can.
The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.
All this cool and dandy...
However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.
I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.
But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.
Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.
If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.
I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.
Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.
Respect!
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
nitsuj17 said:
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
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agreed
10char
adrynalyne said:
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.
I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.
Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...
Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.
How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.
Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.
But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...
I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...
Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.
I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.
Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.
My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.
And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.
But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?
That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.
And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?
And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.
My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.
Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.
Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.
2 cents
I am not a developer.
My phone was decent out of the box.
Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.
The best part is that they aren't done yet
The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.
To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)
Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.
Sent from my fascinate through xda app.
Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.
I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.
It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
adrynalyne said:
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
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I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!
In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dip****... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated
No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.
Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.
Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.
Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.
BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).
RELAX. I've seen so many 'i've had it, i want to swim in Froyo goodness' that i want to puke.
Let me start by saying that i've been in this community for a Looong time and even ran my own kitchen website at one time. I have had over a dozen smartphones and love upgrades.
With that all out there, I can honestly say that my fascinate is perhaps the only phone i've owned (I have an intercept too) that i don't tweak much. I currently run DJ05 and with the blackish storm theme along with some hacks to allow me to save off to my SD card and GPS fixes.
I install a new ROM (crap kernal, slapkernal, rampage) and themes on the intercept. I did the same for winmo 5 and 6. But the Fascinate, it rocks! Have others here had the pleasure of playing with the famed Galaxy Epic? Our 3G is nearly as fast as their 4G and they $10 a month for that battery draining beast. Verizon is Waaay better than Sprint, ATT and Tmobile put together. Reception is the bomb. The EPic/Vibrant/Captivate soft buttons suck. You need to press them 4 or 5 times to get it to take.
Look, I all for upgrading, but Froyo doesn't buy me any sort of happiness at this point. I really don't give a squat whether it comes out or not. I don't even pine for Gingerbread. For what? We don't have a video camera on the front, so the best features are moot for us.
The reality is that Froyo and Gingerbread are just performance tweaks. I have it on my Intercept, woohooo (sarcasm). It will make a ****ty phone into a reasonable phone, but it won't make a great phone any better. Do you have slowdowns on the Fascinate? I'm running Asphalt 5 and Spiderman from the Galaxy Tab on the FAscinate without nearly a hint of lag. Oh of course, we have the same hardware, the best hardware currently out on the market. Until the ATrix/optimus comes to the states.
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
Here's an analogy, if you're driving a 250mph Mercedes AMG, do you care if Mercedes says it's coming out with a new one with an extra 10hp?
orateam said:
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
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I completely agree. If I may share and I mean absolutely no disrespect whatsoever, but you do realize that you have just contributed to exactly that.
Again I mean no harm but in short just don't reply to them. Just my thoughts.
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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BTW I accidentally thanked you.
Seriously though, can you imagine trying to follow the latest development going on while several new guys who keep spamming with "WHEREZ THE FROYOZ YO." It's not easy. It's frustrating. I know I come across as arrogant and elitist, but this comes from dealing with people asking the same question over and over and over again. It's really not that the members here are trying to be harsh.
Having tried to help several users with their issues when new ROMs/development comes out, it's not easy to have to deal with everyone's issues while having to sort through the FROYO threads.
Also if you read the sticky, the moderator posted... STOP POSTING WHERE IS THE FROYO THREADS...
If you can't even read that... I'm not saying that they deserve a flaming, but it's going to happen. This forum has seen countless froyo threads. Search froyo in the Samsung Fascinate section of this forum and you'll see just how many...
Bwangster12 said:
If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Because this site belongs to the "super-intelligent" ones. And keeping a development site free and clear of non-development type threads will keep the "super-intelligent" happy. But gone are the days when users would join and lurk and self-educate themselves and would be aware of the fact that this is a development site for developers and not a place to parrot the latest engaget article about 2.2 on a completely different device.
I myself first came to xda and lurked for 4 months and then I joined in October of 2008 and I kept lurking and reading and reading and google searching and more reading. The first post I ever made was in April of 2009 and it was answering a question someone had. And that's because I identified the fact that this a development site for developers to create and share their hard work. This is not an end-user hacking site. And this is NOT an OH NO I GOT THIS PHONE YESTERDAY AND I DID A BUNCH A CRAP TO MY $500 DEVICE WITHOUT PROPERLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT I WAS EXACTLY DOING AND NOW IT'S STUCK ON THE SAMSUNG LOGO, HELP ME site.
And that is why the "super-intelligent" might be a little annoyed that their little development site has been overrun by people that show little to no respect and actually think that their opinions and parroted news stories actually matter. Or just blatantly create a help me thread without even spending 5 minutes of searching with google to actually mmmm I don't know, but help themselves.
Mom always told me "you made that mess. So now you are gonna clean up that mess"
good day.
+1 chopper and racer...
longtime Lurker and reader myself and it makes me cringe when I see someone with a ton of posts and says "how do I fix (some random problem) without ADB cuz I don't know how to use it"
The actual name of this site is "XDA Developers" I know how to look up engadget on the web when I want to know the latest rumors or news. =)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night.
That said, MY reason for lurking about on all things Froyo/Gingerbread for my phone is that I'm very interested in AOSP-based ROMs for it, and 2.2/2.3 are the OS revisions on which the devs are actively pursuing this accomplishment. While I am a software developer by trade (and I'd like to think a damn good one), I have NOTHING I can contribute to these efforts. I hate Java, I don't know enough about hacking hardware to make functional drivers without proper documentation, hell, I've never even *installed* Eclipse. Basically I am as useless as anyone else off the street would be out here. The difference seems to be that I KNOW THAT. I can't do these things, I don't want to take the time to learn how to do these things, and as a result I have no right to ***** and moan that these things haven't been done (yet). Instead, I sit in awe as others do these things I cannot and wait patiently for the day when I can benefit from someone else's hard work for a change ... and I'm happy to do so. I actually enjoy watching other, most likely younger, developers go through the process of creating something really cool armed with nothing but their own wit and persistence. The end result of their efforts will be something I not only desire for my own use, but will be something I could use to jump-start my own entry into this world should I change my mind and want to actively pursue such a thing.
My phone works great already, thanks to the people here. It runs Android 2.1. It does every single thing I've wanted it to do thus far, with these people's help. Yes, it has some annoyances that in my case would be resolved by having access to a truly stock AOSP-based system, and of course Froyo/Gingerbread is what I'd prefer over Eclair, but I can wait. I will wait. I will continue to donate an admittedly trivial amount of my hard earned money to the developers actively pursuing the end result I'm looking for that I'm not willing to work towards on my own.
I went from Troll to full-on Preacher here ... I can live with that I just hope that the devs here can see that there are people out there that both appreciate and admire them for what they do and hope they can turn a blind eye to the entitled jerks that continue to want something for nothing every day.
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
djp952 said:
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night...
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
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Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
orateam said:
Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
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Why post something like that when it's clear that this guy had a fluke update experience? And to say we will have the same issues is sort of ridiculous. Sorry. I never had one problem updating to 2.2 on my og droid as well as my incredible. Obviously there will be a very small portion of people that have a problem with it as this guy did.
I understand the point of this thread is to stop all of the "Where is froyo?" threads, but to start saying we don't want or need 2.2 is sort of silly. Am I happy with 2.1 and how it runs on this phone? You bet. Do I think 2.2 will only improve this phone and take advantage of its potential even more? For sure. It'll come when it comes, but let's not downtalk it in the meantime.
e: Also, to the OP, why don't the little performance tweaks matter? What about the fact that 2.2 should help improve battery life which, in my opinion, this phone definitely needs? And the 250mph and 10hp analogy is really far off from what this is. It's more like a mercedes getting an engine tuneup as well as a variety of other small upgrades to enhance the overall experience of the car. Even if it's not revolutionary as some people believe (and no, I know it's not as I've gone through the update to 2.2 on a couple devices now), why not be excited if it enhances the experience overall?
Like I said before, I agree people should chill with all of the posts/topics about froyo along with all of their nagging. However, there's no reason to talk down about 2.2, either.
still lurking
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
mexiken said:
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
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I blame engadget.
Keep this forum clean. Go dump all this crap at droidforums.net instead!
Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Thanks for people like you. I posted something in development about froyo. To me out was a legit development question. Since I did not word it correctly I been flamed for days even after I apologized. I mean its almost like being bait in a fish tank. What kind of taste in the mouth does this give someone new like me. The people that flamed do not know what my potential might be for contributions to this site. I know the moderators are mad that people are sometimes posting in the wrong forum, but that is always going to happen. Not one "real" developer flamed me nor did any moderator. The people that think they are comedians are the real problem in forums like this, not the people with real questions our concerns. Sorry for venting, but some people need to grow up
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
OP it's hilarious you created another FROYO thread to protest the creation of FROYO threads.
Way to go with killing off these threads!
dricacho said:
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
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Thanks
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
In my past year being an android owner I have noticed a change of attitude in the development threads. When I bought my vibrant when it first came out a friend referred me to XDA. I was new to the android OS and didn't really know too much about how to root, flash, etc. This site taught me everything I know about my phone that I do today, and I learned by using the SEARCH button. I hate to ask questions especially if I was the one to break it. I have "soft" bricked my phone more times than I can count. And everytime I do and its something new that I have never seen I use the SEARCH button and like magic answers appear on my computer screen.
But back to my original gripe about the attitude in the dev section. Used to, people read the warnings that were CLEARLY posted in the OP of a new rom. They also followed directions like the rom dev posted. Now there were a few people who didn't and ****ed their **** up but nothing like there is today. I was a noob back then and really didn't understand half the stuff of what was posted. But I read and researched and now today I finally have an understanding (albeit small, but an understanding none the less).
For the last couple of months though everytime a new rom comes out and we'll use these 2 as an example (Frost by Krylon and then CM7) people fill the thread with pointless ****. Yeah I understand that problems and glitches need to be reported but after 10 pages of the same **** over and over again I think the dev understands that "hey this issue may need to be resolved ". Once 1000 people same the same **** about a issue they found STOP posting **** people. It clutters the ****ing thread for people who actually read for the sake of not bricking their $250 device.
Take for instance the CM7 thread right now. If you sit there and read every page you are going to find at least 10 people that have used the 2g/3g toggle widget and ****ed their **** up by doing it. Even though it CLEARLY STATES IN THE OP not to use it. Then they wanted to complain and say it was an issue with the rom and it should have never been released yet, but because of their actions and stupididty they caused the problem to begin with.
Then in the Frost thread people are just ASSHOLES. Krylon worked his ass off to put out a 2.2.1 TW rom. These people who flashed a rom that was FREE for them started demanding he do this, and put this into the rom, and blah ****ing blah. PEOPLE these guys and girls do this **** in their free time for FREE. And if you like what they put out then by all means donate. But we have a saying down here "Don't **** with the hands that feed you."
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
Pretty soon if the *****ing and nit picky **** continues the devs will just leave. Kinda like Eugene has done before. Like I said these guys do this **** for free in their spare time for fun but here recently with some of the comments that I seen posted it has kinda taken the fun out of it.
This is a community, basically we are one big android family. We all have a common goal and that is to make our stock phone run at its full potential. Part of the fun of flashing a new rom is seeing all the modifications and themes that were put into it. I have always thought of a new rom like opening a present on Christmas morning when I was like 5 years old. Yeah sure you might have a bad flash or 2 but that's the other part of the fun. Learning how to fix the mistake that was made. That way you learn from your experiences and the next time that happens, hell you will know what to do to fix it.
Im almost done I promise.
In short just use the search bar before posting an issue. I promise the answers you seek are out there. I know because I have had the phone to pc error, the E. Can't mount and I seen that error message several different ways. But also read read read the OP because 9 times out of 10 the devs already know about the issue or have posted what is not working and you should not use that feature of the rom.
Thanks for your time reading this and if it sounds like a madman ranting you can thank tapatalk and the small screen. It was hard to see and that's why there are so many paragraphs. But I felt this has been needing to be said for a while now and reading the cm7 thread tonight was the icebreaker.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
+1
I lurked on the Vibrant forums for a good month and a half before I even made my first post (coincidentally, it was the time when JI6 was going OTA). Before I even made my first Vibrant related post, I knew about the terms Odin and Froyo that doesnt brick and all the other goodies (although I was no expert at the time). It helped me immensely the first time I soft-bricked and it kept me from panic.
Reading is a lost art.
I know if people only read more it would save a lot of headaches.
I agree 100% with the FIRST 3 paragraphs, after that I fell asleep. Search button is everyones friend.
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
vibrant2010 said:
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
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I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I would add is that just skimming over the OP does not get it you need to read it THOROUGHLY AT LEAST TWICE and sometimes three times. I know I have to and even than I am ashamed to say I have not understood key points in the OP. I cannot even imagine how the Dev feels when reading the thread with all of the redundant questions and statements. I am so appreciative to the devs and to this community. Without them I would not have any of the very small level of knowledge and experience(very small) and the confidence to mess with this 250.00 phone. A tip of my hat to the entire community(those that read) and most specifically the DEVS!!!!!!!!!
But,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876777
Is a sticked post on every forum subsection...
Maybe the mods need to post in ALL CAPS!
So chances are... if people don't read the stickies (which answers most of the questions)
Then... well...
I think that the fact that the Vibrant is so difficult to hard brick and people's lack of attention to detail lead to a lot of the dumb questions. While that is annoying, people demanding the devs do this or that and the general rudeness is what really ticks me off. Asking that a feature be added nicely is one thing, but telling them to do something crosses the line. The Frost and MIUI threads are key examples of this. The sense of entitlement around here is dumbfounding.
Have you seen the MIUI thread? Its been cleaned at least 5 times. That thread alone makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. Here's a summary of some of the dipshits that wandered in there:
"I was forced to run this buggy beta on my phone for a week"
"This never should have been released" (never heard of beta testing apparently)
"He's sick? I don't care, updates or I want my money back.....oh wait..."
I love Android, but there are too many ****ing children here with no respect. (Makes me sound like an old man)
Only on the internet, can you have someone who provides an awesome service, at no charge to anyone, and people still be absolute pricks to them.
Haha you remind me of how i used to be on this forum with my crusader posts
unfortunately most of the **** you are talking about WILL NEVER change. its just the way it is. everyone is lazy to a certain degree, but some people are much lazier than others. its just how the world turns. and once you start giving these people hand-outs, for lack of a better term, it will only make it worse.
vibrant2010 said:
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
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+10 on this^^^
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature. I think the problem with most people is they do not know how "find" what they are looking for with ease. For example switching search entire post instead of search title will give information overload in the search results. To even use these options you must select advanced search. But all anyone says is use search. When a noob is faced with 10 pages of results he/she is goin to start a new thread or repeat a post. The op point is valid not new.
ntellegence said:
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature.
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i disagree with you. YES rant threads, in general, accomplish absolutely nothing.
with that said, just because the OP is annoyed with some very relevant problems, does not mean its his responsibility to coach people on basic forum rules. the rules are easily accessible, and honestly....lets not kid ourselves....these people know that the search function is there, they dont need us to tell them.
in fact, id rather see a rant like this than a "search function" thread. "searchsearchsearch" is the oldest ***** in the book. people arent going to search. thats the way it is, theres no reason to start a thread on it, its a problem you can find on ANY forum on the internet......and there are quite a few out there.
in terms of this rant, the OP does bring up some other points that are development specific that are important.
Being on XDA for 3 years, I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
To that, I say I do my best to make sure the stickies have the most common questions and are updated, and I solicit constantly for people to help me monitor/update. I feel the Dev Bible does a good job of this too.
So, ASSUME the searched information is correct.
And yes, do SEARCH!
EDIT, and the OP was so long I gave up on reading it all.
s15274n said:
I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
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this is very true. there are times when you will read something, but youre feeling over-cautious, and you want to just "hear it" directly from someone just to verify.
i really dont have any problem with that at all, its perfectly understandable. problem is its impossible to know when someones doing that, or if theyre just being a sack of sht.
hey am a living proff people learn from mistakes ............LOOK AT ME NOW )
Well said.......
But, people don't read and many that do don't understand what is being said. That contributes to 1/2 the problem,,,,,,But---
Couldn't agree with you more
Failure to search pales in comparison to the flat out disrespect and sense of entitlement shown by some members.
As TopShelf said, getting people to search is a problem that pretty much comes with the territory. Also as was mentioned, people want confirmation, or they feel their situation is somehow unique enough to warrant its own topic/post. We were all new once, so this is understandable.
There is no excuse, however, for the selfish behavior of a lot of these people.
Yes this is a rant thread that offers no real solutions, but short of banning anyone who steps out of line (I am not suggesting this should be done), there aren't really any real solutions. Its just good to vent every now and then, that's why its called a rant.
Problem: People don't read.
Solution: Text-to-speech. (ooo and make it Linda's voice)
Well said.
It's nice to see how passionate some of us can get, and I think that's what makes these forums so good. Sadly there's always going to be these idiots who should have purchased iphones that don't know how to read the OP or follow instructions. They just get flash happy and f*ck up their phones then blame it on the dev's all because they don't know how to read. Sadly what those imbeciles don't realize is that they are slowly getting rid of the dev's who make the roms. Without them we'd be stuck with boring devices.
I'd personally like to see more bans. Ask a question that has been answered in the OP: BOOM, warning. Make that same stupid mistake again, BANNED! XDA needs to start weeding out the morons. This isn't a place for brain dead pot smoking teens who dnt no how 2 sp3ll. It's a place for learning, helping and modding.
Ahh it feels nice to rant.
Paging Dr B said:
XDA needs to start weeding out the morons.
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HAHA say goodbye to 75% of the members, some might say myself included
lets face it, its hard to judge members, because every single member is going to have different opinions about every other member.
mho: they need to enforce the rules more. they need to start disclipining. whether its a 2-post noob, or a 2000-post vet....if someone gets disrespectful....drop the hammer. AND DISPLAY DISCPLINE COUNTS ON USER PROFILE AND WHEREVER THEY POST. we have a "thank you meter", how about a "**** you" meter. bad reputation should be meaured as well, so people know who they are dealing with, and members are held accountable for the way they act.
theres too much politics, and THATS the problem. we have noobs being noobs, but we also have old-timers running around thinking they can say whatever to whoever. and to be honest...i get much more upset when someone gets egotistical rather than when someone doesnt search.
theres too much "internet muscle" on this forum, and frankly its embarassing. some dudes seem to think that just cause they know how to mod a services.jar means they have some sort of special talent, which entitles them to some sort of virtual ego. please dude, it aint that hard, a little modesty never hurt anybody.
NO ONE here should be immune to discipline. from noob to dev....same rules for everybody....that is XDAs biggest weakness.
To people that troll the forum... shut up if you arent helping with dev...
Especially dont be rude and drive them away... They are our only hope until moto releases an unlock bootloader - if ever
P.S I know this isnt dev related... But I hope the post can be here for a bit so people can see this.
Link below... CellZealot pointed out we arent very warm to people just trying to help.... Lets not be like that....
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/android-hacks/6511-moto-atrix-4g.html#post58112
Hopefully, "Recognized Developer" status will help with this, since it will allow said developers to partially police their own threads (yay the ability to close your own thread until you're ready to say more!). But that's still several weeks away.
Sogarth said:
Hopefully, "Recognized Developer" status will help with this, since it will allow said developers to partially police their own threads (yay the ability to close your own thread until you're ready to say more!). But that's still several weeks away.
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+1. Can't come quickly enough
It really does astound me the amount if hatred and misinformation being spread around about this device, and a lot of it comes from people who don't even own one, or used it for a day and returned it. Very sad indeed. I agree with Sogarth, though
+1 So many people just spew out things not fully understanding, or make statements because they made changes to their device that they don't fully understand. My viewpoint is if you are going to make a change to your device, you should know what the change you are making is and the consequences of such. If you modify your software by modding files know that updates released by the manufacturer will not work on your device unless you put it back to factory.
Quite a few people here state moto is intentionally bricking their device because they can't install the update over their mods. It's problematic because it breeds misinformation as well as hatred/flamewars on the boards
Ririal said:
It really does astound me the amount if hatred and misinformation being spread around about this device, and a lot of it comes from people who don't even own one, or used it for a day and returned it. Very sad indeed. I agree with Sogarth, though
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+1. Without Dev's, this device is just another "one year wonder" (if even in my use). We need to attract Devs, not push them away.
naturefreak85 said:
+1 So many people just spew out things not fully understanding, or make statements because they made changes to their device that they don't fully understand. My viewpoint is if you are going to make a change to your device, you should know what the change you are making is and the consequences of such. If you modify your software by modding files know that updates released by the manufacturer will not work on your device unless you put it back to factory.
Quite a few people here state moto is intentionally bricking their device because they can't install the update over their mods. It's problematic because it breeds misinformation as well as hatred/flamewars on the boards
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For some reason this reminded me of an article on Engadget that was posted a while back:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/
I'm always amazed at how many people manage to fudge up their phones and don't take responsibility for it, or try and blame the developer. I think there was a flare up last night because an Android blog posted something in a similar vein stating CyanogenMod was "ruining" a bunch of phones.
Going back to the Nexus One, I've always been amazed by how people talk to the devs here. They have much thicker skin than I do, thankfully. Haha.
Gr8Danes said:
+1. Without Dev's, this device is just another "one year wonder" (if even in my use). We need to attract Devs, not push them away.
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Sigh... We really need devs badly for the atrix
That was one of the things I remembered reading a while back and it stuck with me, I remembered from my time working for Apple how people would **** up their phones jailbreaking it because they thought it would always be "one click and done". My girlfriend has an iPhone and wants to jailbreak it so she can do "cool things" with it. But she has no idea what the cool things she can do are. Nor the consequences that can happen should she mindlessly update her phone. Even I am sometimes skeptical of hacking my device until I know I can revert back.
As was said in Spiderman "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility"
In the end what people have to remember is that as Devs software gets cracked not because everyone asks for it to be done, but it's Because they can. Back in the day whenever someone would ask "Why are you bothering with this" the response was always "Why? Because I can." Users of the mods have to remember this and know that things don't always "Just work" you have to know what you are doing. Part of the reason I'm teaching myself bit by bit how to mod so I can take part properly in the Dev Community.
KaLiBLeeK said:
For some reason this reminded me of an article on Engadget that was posted a while back:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/
I'm always amazed at how many people manage to fudge up their phones and don't take responsibility for it, or try and blame the developer. I think there was a flare up last night because an Android blog posted something in a similar vein stating CyanogenMod was "ruining" a bunch of phones.
Going back to the Nexus One, I've always been amazed by how people talk to the devs here. They have much thicker skin than I do, thankfully. Haha.
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naturefreak85 said:
In the end what people have to remember is that as Devs software gets cracked not because everyone asks for it to be done, but it's Because they can. Back in the day whenever someone would ask "Why are you bothering with this" the response was always "Why? Because I can." Users of the mods have to remember this and know that things don't always "Just work" you have to know what you are doing. Part of the reason I'm teaching myself bit by bit how to mod so I can take part properly in the Dev Community.
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I remember that DEVS are doing this because they can, but now we have also some stimulus for the brave one(s) who'd crack the security issues that are preventing from flashing new kernels etc.
I also agree that if somebody is doing something with device like rooting, hacking Webtop or anything else should know what are they doing. I think that it'd be much more 'secure' - less number of bricked phones. But there are a lot of people that just want oneclick for everything, because the dont want/cant go into the command line, flashing or extraordinary instructions - its too complicated for them.
Moving this to general as not android development
Hi there.
If you're new to Android, how about you actually figure out the OS before you go ***** in the forums to developers?
People seem to think that XDA is a place to go get updates for their phone, and then complain about how it has problems.
It isn't. Developers don't owe you squat. They put out what they WANT to put out. XDA is a development forum, made by developers for developers. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Also, people tend to ***** about problems that they caused themselves. For example, I see people complaining in kernel threads about how they undervolted their phone by -75mv in SetCPU and then complain about how they got a freeze or a SoD and proceed to ask the developer to "fix kernal pl0x".
If you mess with system settings, take a second to think that what you're doing *might* be causing problems.
If you DO have a legitimate problem, take a second to think that someone else might have the problem. Search the thread and check if someone else has the same problem. One thing that is somewhat recurring is people saying "herp I'm too lazy to search 5 pages in the thread". If you're too lazy to click your mouse a few times, kindly consider driving off a cliff.
Also, fun fact, did you know that every time you ***** about battery life a baby seal drowns? True story.
Let your battery go through 2 charge cycles, check for wakelocks on your phone with BetterBatteryStats. If all else fails, consider charging your phone overnight. It's not like you live in an Amazonian forest with no power and need your smartphone to last for a month without charging. Go buy an old Nokia if you need your battery to last long.
Here's another thought: try to make your post even remotely readable. Use proper English, it helps us actually understand whatever you're trying to say.
Spare us all headaches and use your common sense.
Here's some more reading material: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19643797&postcount=5298
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech_(computing)
Good point well made.
Well said - although I might have said in more gentle terms But there is no doubt whatsoever that any settings, ROM flashing, kernel flashing etc. is at the users own risk and no developer can be held responsible for any damage!
Isn't it possible somehow to make a checklist for new users that are important before they mess around? As they are new we got to help them in order to avoid the "stupid" questions.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Agree with you that XDA is a Developers forum
But on a side note I am sure Devs like that their work is appreciated and in turn I am sure it motivates them to continue working towards better roms and stuff.
I have seen most Devs on XDA take it as creative criticism and always try to get work arounds preety quickly which is think is super brilliant.
You can't stop people *****ing around its each person's nature and I guess we can just ignore them and carry on with the good things that XDA has to offer us.
Besides N00bs will be Noobs - I still am and grateful for XDA Dev's and Members for their Support
Still a Good Point made...
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
Totally agree. But with android selling like wild fire the noob intake will increase like crazy. Call it pure laziness to be honest lol.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Logi_Ca1 said:
without users there's no need for developers
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lol.... looks like you really know how this site started..
As i said on a previous thread temporary bannings need to start being issued should people come on and start asking questions which have been answered dozens of times before, i don't know if it's possible in the registration process so newbies can be informed that they need to use the search function first and foremost for any questions where they will most likely find the answer to their questions and only if they cant may then then start a thread where they will most likely get plenty of assistance,when i first joined it was nowhere near as bad as it is now, it's quite painful coming on here sometimes and looking at the same old questions day in,day out.
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Forum definition: A public meeting place for open discussion.
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I also may add when i first joined or rather a few weeks before i registered i done a bit of reading on XDA to try and familiar myself with some of the topics and jargon used as i didn't really have a clue about anything like this, but back to my original point, use the search function and chances are it will bring up something that your looking for at this stage i cant think of anything that hasn't been covered on here with regard to the SGSII.
ithehappy said:
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
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You see, forums are made to discuss specific things. This particular forum was made to discuss development for Windows Mobile and Android. Therefore, we should keep discussion specific to development. And I'm pretty sure development talk isn't "FIX KERNAL PL0X BATTERY DRAINZZ!".
But then again, what do I know.
Maybe a little aggressive, especially to new members, I understand the point being made, but I like many others have come here to ask for advice and share my finding with other like minded android users, some of the advice I've found most useful has been from other new members with similar issues and questions. Be careful not to frighten new folks off. I've seen threads like this destroy forums in the past. It's all about the wording, and coming across friendly, but allowing folks to understand how the forum works. From what I've read, there are plenty of warning on the rooting and firmware threads, so users have been warned before they try anything vaguely risky. There will always be those who don't heed the advice, but those folks ain't likely to read this thread. Anyhoots peace to all, as this a great place.
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
Seifer1975 said:
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
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I'm not bashing noobs, I'm telling them to stop being idiots.
I agree with the op.
Each time I have come accross a problem, it has been remedied by returning to the developer's thread to follow the instructions properly, along with taking on board what tips fellow members have said in the assosiated thread.
If I can figure that much out -which isn't rocket science- then I am sure that other should be able to. If only we lived in 'should land'.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
At this point I'm glad that we still have developers here. I couldn't develop my way out of a hostage situation, but am willing to:
Follow the instructions,
Search if I have a problem,
Verify that I did indeed follow the instructions,
Provide a detailed description of problem if I can't rectify,
Present the developer with any info they may need to diagnose (logs, etc...),
Respect the distinction between Q&A and development,
When it doubt watch the video again, you're a noob f-stick and so am I,
Don't piss and moan when I have an issue, I elected to not have a stock phone, nobody held a gun to my head, but if you piss and moan it makes me want to hold a Kalashnikov to yours: search, contribute, learn to troubleshoot.
The Me Generation, need I say more?
I've been sickened keeping up with the siriya thread at the amount of people asking dumb questions too. It doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I work retail and I barely barely have enough free time or energy to keep up with playing with my galaxy s. I have no idea how these developers even do it.
People need to learn some respect for these amazing guys. But I guess the amount of noobs will only ever increase. So I guess the devs will need to adapt.
Anyway, one reason I'm posting this is because it's my 10th post and this allows me to go and post my thanks in the syriya thread!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Logi_Ca1 said:
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
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Well that's one of the things. Developers don't do it just for people to use it. They do it for learning, testing, and fun. There were custom roms for smartphones when only other developers used it. Did that stop them? Nope we got great things like Cookies Hometab and MaxSense. Everytime I hear "without users their would be no developers" I just have to sit back and say "really what do you think we have been doing on XDA for years before the average user even knew what a smartphone was?"
There is a lot of pointless stuff posted on xda now, often by people who show no respect for the fact that everything here is free of charge. The price of free is that you do a little legwork & read the threads before posting crap like "help i bricked my phone" or "why don't you take the softkeys off the ics gui" which must have been asked 3000 times, when will you release it, which is the best rom? etc.
The admins asked for suggestions last year on how to manage the influx of new members. I didn't suggest anything so I now reap what I sowed. I do have some suggestions now though; let the devs, admins and people with something to download start new threads for free and make the people starting helpdesk or spammy type threads pay, use a keyword or keyphrase blocklist to stop people who can't be bothered to read or who want to ask unreasonable questions from clogging up the threads.
Xda now has adverts so obviously the more the merrier for revenue but if the target is quantity over quality the mods shouldn't complain when they go and clean all the spam out of threads, instead they should just say thanks for your spam please call again soon.
So what is the aim, quality or quantity?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
umadbro?!?!?!