Related
When the G1 came out it was the only Android powered device so modding it worked for everybody. And it was just one brand, HTC, so this forum was a one stop destination for modding our phone.
However, things have changed, now there are multiple phone with incompatible hardware from different manufacturers. Now a custom rom made for the G1, won't work on a DROID for example and vise versa. This complicates things quite a bit.
Right now Cyanogen mods are the best thing for our G1 and maybe the best thing for Android as a whole. I'm used to the build in tether capability and apps to SD and compcace and the other perks of a modded rom. But if I wanted to upgrade my phone, I would lose it all.
There are no Cyanogen mod for anything other than G1 and myTouch phones as far as I know and if I were to upgrade to DROID, I would lose root, lose tether, lose apps to SD, lose everything about my phone that makes it my phone.
Everything I wrote may not be facts, I don't really know what goes on at other forums, but I know that we don't have roms build to run on the DROID and we don't have them built to run on the HERO hardware, it's all for G1 and myTouch, and it seems to me that if I don't ha.ve on of those phones, I lose everything.
I do understand that this forum is for HTC devices which DROID and a few other's are not which is why I don't see homebrew for them. Is there a another website similar to this that supports all Android hardware?
These are thoughts that have been running through my head lately. If I am totally wrong here, please let me know.
I would say check out websites such as androidcommunity.com, androidandme.com, phandroid.com. The developers might not be on there but you can probably find links to where there are custom roms for the phones.
And you are right about different phones having different development oppurtunities. I thought about this today and realized that the next android phone I get not only has to be what I want but also be a popular phone that will attract developers such as cyan, maxisma, jac, manup and everyone else. My best guess and hope is that it will be a snapdragon android handset, hopefully for T-Mobile USA.
What we'll end up having to do is pick our phones based on it's community support and what kind of home brew is available for it.
The reason I love the G1 is the fact that it's rooted and has a large community. This phone is the best on the market, all things considered, because the rooted OS allows so much.
If and when the Droid is rooted, when a GSM version is released, and when it has T-Mo's 3G bands, I will move to it. But all those may not happen for another year or more. If you haven't played with a Droid yet, do so. Incredible speed and the best screen I have ever seen on a phone. Till then, G1 all the way.
The man is right, we have a problem on the dev side.
I think though, once 2.0 gets standard, we'll only need root for a few things like tethering and setting the CPU clock. Really cyanogen's only advantage is optimization, but once 2.0 and snapdragon rolls around, who cares? We'll always want to tinker, but it won't eclipse getting the phone you want.
The big problems right now are that the market isn't getting what it needs. Nothing compares to the HTC widgets, yet instead of cloning them on the market, we try and run a ROM that doesn't even work on our phones! We still don't have BT in Hero and it may just never happen.
2.0 will be what we need as a base, but the market needs our help now.
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but this thread is not about who has the best rom.
The point is, when you get a new Android phone, your rom of choice won't be available for it. So what do you do?
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we all get it already, YOU are dwang's biggest fan
But, to stay on topic. My G1 is the first HTC device I've ever owned and I've only discovered XDA since I've had it, and I think that because of the community involvement here and the custom roms that have come out, I will definitely lean towards another HTC phone when I look for my next upgrade, and it will definately be an android phone.
Also another thing to look at is the availability of the phones that are out to actual dev's. Unless people are donating phones, I doubt everyone can just run out and pick up all the latest devices, and network restrictions/preferences that come along with them.
I think the easiest solution is as follows:
1. Find the dev you like best.
2. Find the phone you like best.
3. Buy phone you like best.
4. Buy/Create a donate link to get said dev the same phone.
Assuming said dev doesnt turn around and craigslist the phone you bought him/her, you have (hopefully) ensured said dev will migrate and develop on your favorite hardware.
Not the best solution but probably the most reliable.
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
cyanogen said:
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real.
Alec, you're like the little annoying brother that no one wants to be around.
Grow up, let your balls drop, and enjoy your phone, your life, and whatever rom you want.
But, you don't have to go around dissing well-respected devs.
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
dwang said:
I want to acknowledge cyanogen, daproy, cyrowski, loccy, and alla for their contributions to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
AthlonBoy said:
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Pinesal said:
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beats me, man. I'm not a developer. But I think it's unlikely.
For the DROID (and other/future android phones) is Apps2SD really necessary? The only reason why we need it on our phones is because of the pathetic amount of internal space the G1 has, the same goes for Swap Partitions etc.
As long as people buy the phone there is always going to be someone who is smart enough to work on rooting it IMO. And even without root what do you really lose? The only things I think I would really miss are Wireless Tether and Bluetooth File Transfer (Which I THINK is in 2.0 anyway).
I'm not buying a new phone until it's rooted and Cyanogen has it too.
My biggest requirement for any android phone..and any cell phone in general is the keyboard. I bought the G1 because of the keyboard and lucked out with the high number of developers available for it. I didn't find this place for several months during the time when the grandfather of the G1 mod program was still active =) JF!. I enjoyed all the modding and updating because I personally feel that the phone is, well mine. And I should be able to do what ever I want with it. I had picked up the V3C Razer because it could play MP3's. I get it home and then discover that the Verizon Nazi's completely locked down that feature so you where forced to use their service at an additional cost. Of course the motorola dev/repair/store software allowed us to get in a enable the various features that Verizon required to be locked. I also love the Aps2sd. No matter what phone you have, the internal memory will never be enough. And with the Cliq supporting 32gig sd cards, a full keyboard, and NOT verizon was enough for me. I'm patient and confident it will be rooted eventually. If not, I still have my G1 and I still do Cyanogen updates and play around with it. And when my contract is up with Tmob(renewed for the Cliq), I'll see who has the next most popular rooted phone with a keyboard and switch over. I just really hate people telling me how to use a device I own. Its like going to McDonalds and having them dictate what condiments to put on my BigMac and Fries, and then telling me I can only eat it a certain way and which hand to use. If Cyanogen was down with the Cliq, or interested in it. I may be willing to ship him my phone to see what he can come up with.
As far as a universal O/S for all phones, isn't that just the core Android software with specific drivers provided by each manufacturer and custom UI? There should be a way to make 1 O/S for all android phones, then have update packs with the drivers and UI enhancements and add-ons for each android phone released? Not sure of the SPL locks though. Thats a bit beyond me. But i wouldn't think it would be to hard to run Cyanogen on the Cliq or droid provided the correct drivers and such where bundled with it. Kind of like slipstreaming a service pack into a bootleg Windows OS . Each phone eventually has to release the source code which contains the drivers for that phone. Thats how we get the Cliq's OS onto the G1, should work the other way around too. Sounds easy, but Cyanogen's Rom should run on my Cliq, provided the drivers are slipstreamed into it for the Cliq...right? Only problem is root.. :/ hehehe
and there he flames again...alec.baldwin, no one has the problems you have with cyanogen's latest. actually, lets delve into this...what exactly are your "problems" with 4.2.5? PLEASE, answer this question so cyanogen can dutifully fix the "problems" you are having.
You might check out some of the Q/A threads to first learn how to properly flash cyanogen's ROM. It is slightly different than Dwang's because Cyanogen uses the legal method. In fact, check out www.cyanogenmod.com and you might find a ton of useful info on getting cm to work on your phone.
Best of Luck,
njuncos
P.S. Cyanogen, mad props on once again reaching over a million thread views on your latest. Now you own 3 of the top 4 most viewed threads of all time in Dream Android Development!
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
right now no one knows, there is no custom kernels, custom recovery, custom roms, etc
There are custom roms and you can easily root the device...but it will obviously take some time to reach N1's customization...
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
ultra spikey said:
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, plus the Black/Blue color scheme is far better looking to me over stock Android. TouchWiz is not like Sense or previous generations of the skin and that's a good thing.
Ill second that. I am really enjoying my touch wiz interface and I didn't think I would. That being said I miss my app drawer that slid up from the bottom.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't know much about flashing to different ROMs yet, but I can give you an overview of the TouchWiz experience from my viewpoint.
Coming from an iPhone, I really like TouchWiz 3.0. And believe me when I tell you: that was their goal with the UI. It screams Apple, in layout and function. But of course, it ultimately feels a bit like an imitation in some areas. I feel like they rushed TouchWiz 3.0 out of the door.
The Clocks and Alarms app is much better than the iPhone's, which is something I was not at all expecting. It's really quite nice. The calendar app is about on par, in terms of layout. The upper hand is that this syncs OTA with Google's cloud services. The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
All things considered, it's a really nice UI for Android.
That said, there are some really basic functions which did not make the transition from stock Android. For example: you cannot fully edit contacts in the 'Contacts' app. You cannot delete them, you cannot add custom ringtones. Coming from the iPhone, where I had meticulously completed the profiles of every contact with an obscene amount of info and custom ringtones, this is annoying.
There are a few 'little things' like that, which really matter to me. And this has kind of soured the experience for me, making me second-guess my decision. To be honest, I'm still sort of on the fence over this of the N1 as my iPhone replacement.
The grey area for me is in Android 3.0's release. Google has stated that they're going to overhaul the UI. The idea is that they want to make it more user-friendly, to make the use of custom skins less prevalent. Well, I'm all for this. Trouble is: will these handset manufacturers adopt it, considering their vested interests in their custom experiences?
Samsung's UI is definitely my favorite out of Sense, MotoBlur and the lot. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't wish for a Nexus One for the security of owning the only unlocked stock device.
Hope that helps...
Give it some time and stock Android will be on the Vibrant. Thats the great thing about Android and Xda.
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
The touchscreen is bad on that phone especially when it comes to multitouch. I'm sure you've already seen the videos comparing the two touchpads and the Vibrant's touchscreen is SO accurate... multitouch included.
Jon C said:
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While its a little early to be 100% yet but Android hacking is a lot different than iphone hacking. The iphone is a closed system and you have to wait till its broken open to update. Android is already open when its released. As for OTAs if Cyanogen supports the Vibrant then there is an app to download and install new updates. Typically if you stay with the same developer, like Cyanogen, then you don't have to wipe when there are updates.
After froyo 2.2 all my touch screen problems was gone.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
So untrue after froyo 2.2 those problems was fix the nexus one is a awsome phone.and I believe the same for the vibrant.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Can you do me the world's biggest favor?
Would you make some YouTube videos, showing the multitouch tests of your N1? I so, so, so, would love to own one, but I have zero tolerance for faulty hardware. I've been researching this stuff since the N1 launch, and it's the only thing holding me back from purchasing that device.
'Multitouch Vis Test' is probably the easiest way, but if you can think of others to test with, that would be great.
Jon C said:
The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used my iPod Nano 4th Gen in some time, I find that the N1 is handling my music needs just fine. But if I had a nickel for every time album art was hosed on my iPod Nano I would not have a mortgage anymore...
hah2110 said:
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
psychoace said:
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why can't CM do his thing?
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
blazewit said:
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to see any information confirming any of that. First on his twitter he only seems to be working on the Evo right now. Second I doubt he would work on the Droid x until it's rooted (which most likely will be never). Last I have seen only a small pattern of talk about someone in conversation with Cyanogen about allowing a Galaxy branch of the CM code for use with the Galaxy S. Problem is this doesn't solve the issue of not having source code for a few drivers. This does not even attack the issue of getting the rom onto the phone. So don't hold your breath for any of that.
yea your right it was just one site claiming that cm is working on the vibrant,from what i can tell gothdroid and a bunch of other g1/dream devs are working right now for custom recovery and porting cm6 and froyo asop
Other than these two:
Overclocking
Loading modded roms
I mean let's all be honest, even if you undervolt and remain stable, any overclocking that will allow noticable performance, will have just as much noticable effect on the battery. And these are mobile devices. Battery should be considered top priority, not speed.
And what's the deal with wanting to load all these custom roms? Are they significantly better than stock, Adeo, or gingerblur? What do we need to load a fully custom rom for? Are they lightning fast and extend battery life by 100%? I guess I just don't get it. Deodexing and visual mods can be done without an unlocked bootloader.
Basically what im trying to say is. What is everyone *****ing about?
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
As far as I know, there is no way to unlock the Atrix's bootloader. It is encrypted. You may check the xda's frontpage, there is news several weeks ago regards to the Moto's bootloader.
mccoy007 said:
As far as I know, there is no way to unlock the Atrix's bootloader. It is encrypted. You may check the xda's frontpage, there is news several weeks ago regards to the Moto's bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you missed the purpose of the thread. He is not asking HOW to do it, only WHY you would need to, other then overclocking or loading ROMs.
Honestly, it does make a big difference. Battery life can be very substantially increased in many of these roms. They both over and under clock processors to maximize the life. It's possible to get gingerbread on the inspire right now through custom roms because the boot loader isnt locked. It's possible to completely remove sense, whereas we have to live with motoblur. There really are a lot of reasons. Honestly, look at what Xda is all about, it's android development. Just take a look at the atrix dev forum vs the inspire one. Phones with a strong development community tend to live far longer because they can upgrade the os long after the company stops trying. The original g1 was only officially upgraded to 1.6 (I believe) but Xda has a few 2.2 roms that actually run pretty solid.
Tl:dr the list goes on and on of reasons that you want an accessible boot loader.
Ability to load a custom recovery menu. Nandroid.
it's simple dude. people do it because they can.
Besides the fact you would get work and support from the awesome devs here another good reason would be most phones have their shortcomings.Most of the time this can be fixed in the software.The awesome devs here are able to in most cases get it sorted out within a week or 2 whereas if the phone manufacturer or carrier is gonna do something about it your gonna wait 6 months to get an update. A prime example of this was the rediculously low external and earpiece speaker volume on the inspire.On max volume it was just too low. Now the rom chefs can cook up custom roms with 20% volume increase.
The 2 reasons you want to exclude are the main points. It's like saying "other than drowning; what's the point of learning to swim".
i want android 2.3.3 , can i ? no! i have to wait to an official update from motorola.. why ?!
i want htc sence in motorola , can i ? no !
we love to play and change things.. uman nature
seh6183 said:
Other than these two:
Overclocking
Loading modded roms
I mean let's all be honest, even if you undervolt and remain stable, any overclocking that will allow noticable performance, will have just as much noticable effect on the battery. And these are mobile devices. Battery should be considered top priority, not speed.
And what's the deal with wanting to load all these custom roms? Are they significantly better than stock, Adeo, or gingerblur? What do we need to load a fully custom rom for? Are they lightning fast and extend battery life by 100%? I guess I just don't get it. Deodexing and visual mods can be done without an unlocked bootloader.
Basically what im trying to say is. What is everyone *****ing about?
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your first question says "ignoring custom ROMs..." and your second question says "What about custom Roms..." so I'll address the second question.
ROMs. Gingerbread. AOSP. Stock Android. Kernels.
Another consideration in favor of ROMs is the continuation of support by the dev community even after the manufacturer has EOL'ed a product. You still see the Dream (G1) getting roms with new features even though the phone has been effectively dead for a while now.
It is always in the phone manufacturer's and the carrier's best interests to kill off support to get you to buy the newest, latest device.
daveop said:
Just take a look at the atrix dev forum vs the inspire one. Phones with a strong development community tend to live far longer because they can upgrade the os long after the company stops trying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love my atrix.. but I visited the Inspire 4G dev forums... and.. yeah I got a little bit jealous. lol
I hope the few devs we have don't end up leaving and can crack this bootloader!!!!
s1mpd1ddy said:
I love my atrix.. but I visited the Inspire 4G dev forums... and.. yeah I got a little bit jealous. lol
I hope the few devs we have don't end up leaving and can crack this bootloader!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean. That's one thing I like/liked about my FUZE: there was a pretty active dev community, at least until the HD2 came out.
I'm planning on getting an Atrix on Monday and this is making me think about getting an Inspire instead. I guess I'll get the Atrix and if it blows I can take it back, get an inspire, and pocket $100.
Wow is this seriously a question?
Nandroid backups, AOSP ROMs like Cyanogen where you get updates every NIGHT if you wish from the source Android build so it'll always be the latest version - no waiting for Motocrap. Battery life is usually way better, TONS of tweaks (being able to tweak my color balance of the screen, gamma levels, haptic feedback behavior, autobrightness levels and thresholds, lockscreen and messaging gestures, etc). That's all before even mentioning performance increases like overclocking, deodexing for themes, ext4 modifications for faster I/O. There's just way too many things to list but if you've never experienced a phone that has custom ROMs (especially Cyanogen) then I can see why you don't miss anything, but if you have, like me, you'll probably never want to settle for an Android phone that doesn't allow custom ROMs.
custom roms is reason enough...like dinan said if you ever used them you would understand. pretty much all the problems that people are having with the atrix could be solved if our devs had access to the bootloader.
I do see the importance of having continued support after moto leaves the phone behind. And it would be nice to have a dev make a rom to fix the coloring on the Atrix screen. Also I didn't realize that updates to custom roms come so often and that they had that much support.
I am starting to see now.
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
mccoy007 said:
As far as I know, there is no way to unlock the Atrix's bootloader. It is encrypted. You may check the xda's frontpage, there is news several weeks ago regards to the Moto's bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily, there are a few other people working on the bootloader (I hope), as it is signed, not encrypted; there is a difference.
My phone before the Atrix was the TytnII, and the only reason I was able to keep it as long as I did was because of custom ROMS. If they are able to increase the performance of this phone the way they increased the performance of my 300Mhz/128MB RAM TytnII, then I will be giddy as a school-girl.
Do I need an unlocked bootloader? No, I absolutely love my phone the way it is right now, as this is my first Android, so I don't know what else is possible.
Battery life?
I am running a test of a custom kernel for my captivate. I turned off everything and wanted to see how long it would last.
No wifi or data (no sim card installed) it ran idle for 11 days.
Custom Kernel with no wifi or data its going to last about 50 days. (based on current estimate as im still testing it)
Just an FYI, there are devices with locked bootloaders that have custom ROMs. This includes the X10, which has a Gingerbread ROM. The issue is getting a newer Android build to work with a stock kernel. Unlocking the bootloader is key to building custom kernels but there are methods for getting custom ROMs without a custom kernel.
Developer support.
/thread
-Sent from my Galaxy Tab
Athailias said:
Battery life?
I am running a test of a custom kernel for my captivate. I turned off everything and wanted to see how long it would last.
No wifi or data (no sim card installed) it ran idle for 11 days.
Custom Kernel with no wifi or data its going to last about 50 days. (based on current estimate as im still testing it)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well this isn't exactly a real world situation. Who's to say that you're not running the cpu at 1mhz with the screen powered off 24/7. wouldn't you prefer to test under load and real use?
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
I know there has been a thread or 2 about this, but I want to go in a different direction. I have a chance to trade my epic straight up for a Motorola Photon and I'm thinking about it.
Does anyone have experience with rooting? Recovery? Comparable differences with the epic? I'm just trying to gauge the learning curve with getting the phone the way I like it, versus how easy it was when I got my epic.
I figured I would ask here before I posted a derrr stupid annoying thread in their section. Since at least I know names around here.
They do have a mostly working cm7, but so do we. They don't have very many roms yet and I think its hard to root and get recovery (compared to epic). They do have superior hardware and superior CDMA+WIMAX radios (higher data speeds). For now, it depends on whats important to you: ROMS or Hardware. Also, fyi, the Photon will likely get official ICS if that interests you
Thank you for the response
Yea ICS crossed my mind, but after what I've gone through with my epic, I don't think I could use a stock phone ever again. Tell me this, if you can, is it easier to root than the old Thunderbolt method? As in circumventing the bootloader via exploit and thus making a HUGE headache to restore to stock if needed?
The processor is dual core, which I like, but as far as I can tell our phones have much better screen quality. Bah. I don't know what to do.
Ask qbking77 what he thinks about them. He has both
Sent from my Samsung Legendary 4G, a Universe UTES phone, running "two.three.five"
Oh really? Ok. Thanks.
If they're asking for a straight up trade... Do it for sure. The phone stock alone is better than the epic (due to dual core and speed). The screen on the epic is imo a little better since it has superamoled (my favorite). Unfortunately, development for the Photon isn't very great and isn't supported very well. If you were to get the Photon I'd just leave it stock and root it for the free tethering (which might not work on your device depending on ad hoc or not). The photon is a great phone, and has much better signal strength than any other sprint phone. If having a hardware keyboard isn't a problem for you.. I'd definitely trade for the photon. If you like having a phone with developer support... stick with the epic. If you have any other questions, please let me know
Honestly rooting the photon is down to a one click root, unlocking the bootloader is easy to if you know how to read. Putting cwm on is also simple if you can follow directions. If you have any concerns ask away, if you have any doubts on doing something, read read read!
Sent from one focused mopho!
Rabidmechanic05 said:
Honestly rooting the photon is down to a one click root, unlocking the bootloader is easy to if you know how to read. Putting cwm on is also simple if you can follow directions. If you have any concerns ask away, if you have any doubts on doing something, read read read!
Sent from one focused mopho!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed it is very easy. I have videos for everything actually. Whether its rooting, unlocking a bootloader, or unrooting. To have a rom, you will lose 4G. Unlocking your bootloader causes you to lose 4g.
Ok, I'm starting to get the picture now. I guess there is good and bad on both sides. I don't have 4G in New Hampshire, and I never will in the form of WiMax, so that part doesn't bother me. I think I will trade for it if he still wants to do it. Thanks all for your input
I bought the motorola photon yesterday, and honestly i think its an incredible device that can easily hold me off until sprint start releasing LTE devices.
I heard that their is a way to use a custom rom and keep your 4g by doing the following.
1. root device
2. unlock bootloader
3. install recovery
4. install custom ROM
5. backup custom ROM
6. lock bootloader
7. root
8. restore custom ROM
That method only works with pseudo roms, full roms require cwm which requires an unlocked bootloader
Sent from one focused mopho!
In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.
Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
alaman68 said:
Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
PsiPhiDan said:
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
It's a *good* thing the phone comes with Sense, its one more option you have, and Sense does add some useful features. Custom rom's will offer all kinds of options including optimized and bloatware free versions of Sense.
alaman68 said:
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree. I'm kind of thinking of galaxy nexus, cuz I'm not fond of sense. But, I'm sure in no time we'll be able to rip sense OFF that SOB and put AOKP or some other variant of vanilla ICS.
Then, if you wanna run sense for a few days, that option will still be there. It's win-win.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
If I'm running Sense 4.0, do you think I'll still be able to get the Quad ICS unlock screen, or something like that? I LOVE that lockscreen - way better than the silly ring that Sense creates. I don't understand why they didn't change that from 3.0 and 3.5 to something fresh. Oh, I would assume I have the "unlock with face" option too on this phone? It's been so long since I ran Sense, I forgot if these things are changeable or not!
My only concern with the custom ROMs is whether things will run okay, like camera and such. Also, if you are running AOSP, you'll miss out on the supposedly amazing camera suite that Sense 4.0 provides, right?
Tough choice!!!
Sense 4.0 + ICS ALL DAY!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
imheroldman said:
I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's awesome, especially considering the One S is inferior to our EVO we're getting...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Well I will answer my own question at this moment, because I stopped into a T-Mobile and played with the One-S for about 10 minutes. It appears that ICS as we know it is VERY coated by Sense, but not necessarily in a bad way. It is still beautiful, just very different. I noticed that there were no quick settings in the notifications menu, which is one thing I was very curious about. But overall, really nice and REALLY amazing! Considering that is the crappy version of our EVOs, I cannot wait for this thing. The One-S screen was awesome, and I know it can't touch the screen (both size and resolution-wise) of our new toy coming out. But the UI was terrifically smooth, the feel was nice (physically), and Sense was overall not intrusive. It was just omnipresent. I'm not disappointed at all - and I know the devs will give us amazing options in terms of removing Sense, or tweaking Sense to give us cool features like quick settings and slide to change brightness.
I can't wait until the One-X is out so that I can play with that one, since it will give a much more accurate portrayal of our experience we can expect. May 18th can't get here soon enough!
I'm posting this everywhere . Its a post by toastcfh over in the oneX forums about how much HTC locked the phone down. Among many things, it is impossible to mount SD from recovery due to their locking, even with custom recovery and HTC dev unlock. If toast says it, it is so, I mean, the guy is an Android/Linux GENIUS. he's the one that had the Evo root method instructions posted before launch day.
Quote.....
no, USB mount does not work in recovery. It appears to be locked out in recovery mode. the workarounds to get it working are one of two things.
(1) fastboot boot awesomeRecovery.img (this works because fastboot then boots recovery on the boot/temporary partition. So the you're not actually in recovery mode
(2) Offmode (this works because again you're again not technically in recovery mode. It uses the recovery ramdisk, kernel, and binaries but its still not technically recovery.
On that note I've seen suggestions that it's possibly a recovery issue with cwm and twrp. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the case. If it were then in CWM u wouldn't have usb when u fastboot boot the recovery or in offmode (fair assumption since both these options use the same kernel, ramdisk and binaries as recovery?). Can it be fix? Not that i know of. It looks to me like a total radio or bootloader lockout from using USB in recovery. Which means on a radio or bootloader level USB is disabled in recovery mode.
On that note I think we should raise the point to HTC that this locking down of the device does not suite our needs.Key points of fail would be as follows.
(1) Can NOT flash the boot partition from recovery. I've personally contacted HTC on this numerous times and they seem to just not care. Responding with "It's a security issue" and so forth. I would love to know how this is a security issue of any sort. Every other Android device has this ability except HTC devices since they started the HTC unlock ordeal. It's utter fail IMHO and HTC should listen to our needs .
(2) Can NOT flash recovery or boot partitions from system. This issue is NOT a deal breaker and isn't so bad when it comes down to the nitty gritty. But since the issue above exists, flashing with applications like htc dumlock and such were our only options. These work around apps cant be used to flash now because of the lockpout from system and it wouldn't be such an issue if HTC didnt lock us out in recovery from flashing boot.
(3) Can NOT flash P*IMG.zips in hboot/bootloader anymore. For the unlocked device running a custom firmware this is a must. Specially when radio updates and such are needed from the OEM. We seen a big use of this on the Sensation when HTC updated the device from Gingerbread to Ice Cream Sandwich. The update required new hboots, radios, and partitioning to actually use. So in that instead of having to flash a RUU Which didn't exist the only choice was to flash a custom P*IMG.zip that included all the radios and images need to run the builds. At this point we can't update those image/partitions without flashing an RUU. This makes no since and doesn't seem to do anything but make things more difficult on the unlocker to customize and modify their device.
(4) If all the conditions above HAVE to exist. Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
(5) WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HTC UNLOCK? I was to reach out and except us as a community. It was to keep us from having to exploit their firmware and look for holes to gain control of a device we rightfully own. WHAT DID HTC UNLOCK DO? It unlocked the devices at first and with each new revision of the unlock it gets more locked down and harder for us to use it as intended. WHAT DOES THAT LEAD TO? It leads to us hoping someone will take the time out of their life and exploit HTC's firmware so we can have access and control of our devices. I mean, it's bad when u have people poking a device with a paperclip to get a device unlocked to avoid a official unlock.
Bottom line; I'm personally fed up with HTC's unlock. It's absolute crap! It does not serve the purpose it was intended and only makes things harder then they were before. As a devoted HTC customer it has me questioning if my next device will be an HTC. With all the other options that would allow me to spend less time trying to gain proper access to my device and more time actually having fun with it, why choose HTC? Everyone else is shying away for these same issues. Everyone with an HTC unlocked device waits for someone to exploit HTC's firmware and give them a proper unlock. Why not just choose a device without the locked down/unlock instead? IDK but HTC needs to step up and listen to us. Every HTC forum with an HTC Unlock is screaming for these issues to be fixed.
My call to HTC is to fix these issue and/or give us proper documentation on flashing firmware to our devices via custom recoveries. The boot flashing lockout is dumb, pointless, and in NO WAY a security threat AT ALL and is nothing more then a CRAP RESPONSE to something that they sould be working to correct, instead of ignoring. In the end its hurting HTC's relations with developers and is ultimately doing the opposite of what it's original intent.
HTC, PLEASE READ AND LISTEN!!!11ONEone
To everyone else, SPREAD THE WORD!!!ONEone
End quote.........
There has to be a way to petition HTC. Reading this is making me lean galaxy Nexus, ...and I F$%kin HATE Samsung.
Edit: this post is from the One X forum TWRP topic.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
No way I'm buying a Samsung phone.
I'll trust that someone will figure out how to get around the issue at some point. I love how the phone is stock anyway.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
PsiPhiDan said:
In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There IS PLENTY of apps on the play store that offer home screen and lock screen customization, such as launcherpro, milocker, gosms, as far as changing the status bar and battery bar i'm not so sure, i haven't been on a phone with s-on in a while and can't tell you what rootless tweaks would work