Database Users

[Idea] Improve touch screen accuracy through software

I have an idea that I think is unique; I can't seem to find anything related to it on xda or google, so forgive me if this already exists and is just too obvious for me to find it. Also I’m not sure if this is posted in the appropriate place since I’m not actually offering anything other than a simple idea. I am not a programmer and would have not way of testing or implementing this concept.
I often find myself repeatedly hitting little check boxes and links on my Windows phone. Even on a perfectly calibrated screen, it can be difficult for my fat finger to find the right spot. I particularly have problems with X/OK button and the Start menu at the top corners of the screen. I’m assuming that soft-buttons, text fields, etc in windows mobile have a defined border that accepts touch input. If the screen detects your touch outside of this box, it will not register. I propose a software solution to this.
I’ve included a simple illustration that hopefully makes this clearer. Also, anyone feel free to tell me this won’t work, that it’s already been done, etc. Rather than having a single box that is awaiting a single touch input, imagine if there were dozens of boxes surrounding the soft-key, each with an assigned value. As the boxes radiate out, the values would decrease. Input happens when the values add up to a predefined amount, which equals a touch. This way, if you click close to the box, but not quite, the screen will register where you are actually touching and make a decision (by adding up the values) of where you were actually trying to touch.
Hopefully the picture helps. I mentioned my lack of programming ability, and that applies to graphic design as well
All feedback is appreciated, and if anyone has the skills and knowledge to do this, let me know if you’re interested. I’d love to see the results.

That's pretty smart, actually; sort of like making our resistive touchscreens emulate capacitive ones.

I am another person who feels this is rather clever.
Sadly i am too a bit naff at programming :/

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I've made a better mock up now that I'm at home and have access to something besides MS Paint. I'm hoping to run across someone with the know-how, willingness, and energy to work up a proof-of-concept.
As a clearer example, in the new image, the red circles could equal 50, the green squares 25, and the blue squares 10. An equation taking sensitivity into account would be better (hard touch equals higher value with a multiplier for the closer circles). Say 100 was the thresh-hold for the screen to register a click on the box. Two reds, one red and two greens, and so on, anything that adds up to 100, would register. There could also be multiple boxes close together, each with their own set of concentric circles.
Another useful way of thinking about this is the elementary difference between accuracy and precision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision
Screen calibration takes care of precision; I think this would provide accuracy.
Edit: I also wanted to add I was thinking of probability clouds when I came up with this. What can I say, I have a boring job.

Wow. Great idea, but I' not the one to program it! I'm surely someone will be up to the task though.

anything that makes hitting the stupid ok button easier is great in my book!

This won't work. There are no "boxes" like you speak of. The touch screen gives the OS the POINT where it was pressed. The OS converts that into pixels sees what is under the pushed pixel and selects that. Very similar to how a desktop works. The mouse only clicks one pixel and those interactive touch screen things you see at stores where you can see the moues move to where you pressed further illustrate it.
Multi Touch screens report that area that was pressed instead of just one point, but no WinMo phones have multi touch.

petard said:
This won't work. There are no "boxes" like you speak of. The touch screen gives the OS the POINT where it was pressed. The OS converts that into pixels sees what is under the pushed pixel and selects that. Very similar to how a desktop works. The mouse only clicks one pixel and those interactive touch screen things you see at stores where you can see the moues move to where you pressed further illustrate it.
Multi Touch screens report that area that was pressed instead of just one point, but no WinMo phones have multi touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is helpful; thanks for the insight. I tried to find info on exactly how resistive touch screens worked, but it tended to be technical specs rather than how the OS used them. If it is narrowing it down to a pixel, then I see what you're saying: it won't work. If the point of contact was read as a larger, single area (as opposed to one pixel), it would be possible. Couldn't a GUI simply draw a circle around that single point? Then the area contained in that circle could be used to predict the button/icon you're trying to press using the values of the "boxes" or circles underneath.
Again, I was bored at work and was thinking about how hard it is to hit the OK button sometimes. Oh well, it killed about 2 hours

Leo NOT compatible with most applications, due to iPhone-like screen

Yesterday I purchased a HD2 also called Leo, running original WWE ROM from HTC
I have installed several apps including Sloved dictionaries, Lingosoft dictionaries.
Some are in "touch mode" version, some are not. Those apps who are NOT in touch mode, are virtually impossible to operate, due to the new screen. Small Icons and scroll down menu are almost impossible to "touch" they never give the correct results.
Leo seems NOT very compatible. The reason, I guess, is the new screen type: it it different, it is similar to iPhone. They call it resistive screen.
Both iPhone and HD2 you cannot use stylus or pen (simply the screen does not react). Both cannot use the nail of the finger (it does not react).
The thumb and the finger tip areas (which is the only area which can input into the device) are too gross and wide to be precise....
You need to use the soft part of the finger (I guess in English it is called finger tip, or end of the finger), below the nail, in order to have the screen react to your inputs.
I have tried many times: in my software the small icons on top bars, and all scroll down menus ARE TOO SMALL to be tipped with finger tip or thumb tip.
They cannot accessed, or they give wrong results or you need tens of attempts to get it right. Most of the time inputs are not responsive, sometimes they are, with unpredictable or wrong results (for example you open phone ring scroll down menu and click on a ring type "A" and the phone interpret as ring type "C")
This is terrible...altough I admit the 4.3" screen is awesome and superb...What can be done?
1. is there an application which restore or adjust the screen sensibility so that it can be used with NON-TOUCH softwwares?
2. or are all developers going to release new touch-friendly version of their software...suitable to this type of screens?
Thanks a lot
Saulo

saulo866 said:
1. is there an application which restore or adjust the screen sensibility so that it can be used with NON-TOUCH softwwares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try pinch zooming.
saulo866 said:
2. or are all developers going to release new touch-friendly version of their software...suitable to this type of screens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will, but it may take some time and won't happen overnight. They will have to do it to stay alive because of WM7 compatibility requirements.
It may be a (huge) inconvenience for some users like you, but it's a trend that won't be reversed.

Congrats on the new handset.
saulo866 said:
Leo seems NOT very compatible. The reason, I guess, is the new screen type: it it different, it is similar to iPhone. They call it resistive screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen on the HD2 and the iPhone is capacitive, not resistive.
saulo866 said:
Both iPhone and HD2 you cannot use stylus or pen (simply the screen does not react). Both cannot use the nail of the finger (it does not react).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use a special kind of stylus, I believe some people have bought one for the iPhone on ebay. Also, HTC has patented a magnet tipped stylus which will work on capacitive touchscreens. As the HD2 is built with a 4.3 inch screen I don't think there will be much problems.
I can use my X1 without a stylus just fine.

Is it totally impossible to manage tiny acreen elements?
Is a conductive (metal) "stylus" possible?
Thanks

zolom said:
Is it totally impossible to manage tiny acreen elements?
Is a conductive (metal) "stylus" possible?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
The are capacitive styluses on eBay. They are also quite cheap. However, their tips are quite large compared to a resistive stylus.
I'm going to experiment a little bit when I get my HD2 (hopefully on Friday).
But to be honest, I can use my finger for almost everything on my X1. And that was a tiny screen compared to the HD2. So I don't see the problem. Seems like a lot of people are making a fuss over nothing.

I tried to use morph gear on mine and NONE of the buttons work at all.

I guess the use of capacitive screen is only advantageous if and only if the OS and applications are designed for it. Window mobile would not be able to enjoy this benefit now. I hope WM7 would change that.

madindehead said:
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC have licenced one already...

DinoZ1 said:
HTC have licenced one already...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have filed a patent yes. They haven't made it yet tho. Certainly not to the general consumer.

That's B.S
If you use softwares from 1996 then sure, it won't be finger friendly.
Almost all software from recent year are finger compatible.
I just went through all the software installed on my touch HD, from about 30 software installed zero are not finger friendly. The only thing I have non finger friendly is some of the WM6.1 screens.

madindehead said:
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
The are capacitive styluses on eBay. They are also quite cheap. However, their tips are quite large compared to a resistive stylus.
I'm going to experiment a little bit when I get my HD2 (hopefully on Friday).
But to be honest, I can use my finger for almost everything on my X1. And that was a tiny screen compared to the HD2. So I don't see the problem. Seems like a lot of people are making a fuss over nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no one is making a fuss. I hate the stupid posts of "visible dot matrix in the screen, HD2 is slower than other phones, HD2 has no video out and so on". But I quite get the feel of problems the poster is trying to address. You didn't get the point here, X1 is with the typical resistive screen, it is entirely different when you operate on a capacitive screen, and it is not about the size of the screen. I now start to worry about the 3rd party apps as I've been relying on many apps with my Touch HD. I really hope somehow the software developers will come out with apps exclusively support HD2 capacitive screen!

I don't understand .. sure, it's harder to press small elements. But even now a lot of software is finger friendly, and the trend will only get stronger. Actually I use only fingers with my current X1, I use stylus like once per week, since some parts of WM 6,1 can't be used well with fingers.
Is there some other problem ? What do you mean by exclusive HD2 support ?

newuser888 said:
I guess the use of capacitive screen is only advantageous if and only if the OS and applications are designed for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me personally, and, I believe, for many others, the major advantage of a capacitive screen is the glass screen surface and no need to use those stupid screen protectors anymore. I don't use outdated apps with tiny elements though, so it's not a big deal for me. If you are tied to them for some reason then it's a different story I guess...

well it doesnt need to be exclusiveto the hd2... just finger friendly would do the trick... I use my stylus only on some drop-down menus...

Exemple of applications which are NOT working??

I got mine few minutes ago, I am using it, and I dont have ANY problem with tiny elements, maybe sometimes you need to click 2 times but nothing. 0 problems for me.
This device is fracking awesome.

precsmo said:
No, no one is making a fuss. I hate the stupid posts of "visible dot matrix in the screen, HD2 is slower than other phones, HD2 has no video out and so on". But I quite get the feel of problems the poster is trying to address. You didn't get the point here, X1 is with the typical resistive screen, it is entirely different when you operate on a capacitive screen, and it is not about the size of the screen. I now start to worry about the 3rd party apps as I've been relying on many apps with my Touch HD. I really hope somehow the software developers will come out with apps exclusively support HD2 capacitive screen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did get the point. He said small menus are hard to press without a stylus.
I am asking why he finds this, as with a bigger screen (same resolution) the menus are now bigger. If I can use a small menu with my finger on the X1, the SIZE of the icon will be bigger on the HD2 (given the increase in screen size).
I wasn't saying that capacitive and resistive react the same way to a finger press. All the apps need, is to become finger friendly.
They won't react any differently on the HD2. Unless you have a drawing application you use, in which case that will be different.
But my original point still stands. The icons shouldn't be any harder to press on the HD2 as they will be bigger than on an X1 (I have smallish hands, but quite chunky fingers. I have press icons on the X1 fine, so I'm not worried about them on the HD2).

Even with big fingers, it's just a matter of skill. The phone detects center of pressed area and it always sends single point to the application. It does not mean that you can't press very small element with big finger, it just may be harder to hit.
I recommend simply trusting the device, not trying to do anything special ..

let me clarify what I said: let me make some more examples to make you understand what huge discomfort this "otherwise awesome screen" is giving to me:
try for example, (on any HD2) to do the following:
settings > input > options > try to change default zoom level from 200% to 100% (you need to access zoom scroll down menu)...I have tried for 20 times and I failed...sometimes I get 300% sometimes I get 75%...no way you can select the right level.
No way you can use your nails (since the settings are in a small area)
any other settings in which you need to select a choice from a scroll down menu results in a pain and several attempts...
In this condition even the internal settings on wm 6.5 are hard to accomplish...better to shift back to HD1 or to iphone, whose software is simplified enough to make the use of thumbs finger possible

saulo866 said:
let me clarify what I said: let me make some more examples to make you understand what huge discomfort this "otherwise awesome screen" is giving to me:
try for example, (on any HD2) to do the following:
settings > input > options > try to change default zoom level from 200% to 100% (you need to access zoom scroll down menu)...I have tried for 20 times and I failed...sometimes I get 300% sometimes I get 75%...no way you can select the right level.
No way you can use your nails (since the settings are in a small area)
any other settings in which you need to select a choice from a scroll down menu results in a pain and several attempts...
In this condition even the internal settings on wm 6.5 are hard to accomplish...better to shift back to HD1 or to iphone, whose software is simplified enough to make the use of thumbs finger possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just carry a laptop round with you that has MyPhone installed on it and use that. Simple!

[Q] Did anyone discover any super secret mode for stylus calibration yet?

Man, I tested a demo set and the pen was SERIOUSLY off. Whatever I wrote was like a 2-3 pixels off. The only thing the staff could tell me was to send the set for repair if I ever got this issue. They quickly removed the demo set after I showed them the problem. I am pretty sure Samsung is not going to replace the WHOLE screen just for this issue, anyone discovered anything yet?

i have the same problem.
i cant write with this poor precision...
need to recalibrate the s-pen... or the screen, i dont know...

Me to... i hope there is such a thing because if i zoom in a screenshot and draw something the offset is over 3 mm for me

Have none of you realized that this is intentional as a result of left and right hand mode so that you can see the line you are drawing? its not a calibration issue at all.

maybe...
but it's stupid.
i want a perfect precision, not at 2-3mm....

thekiller3 said:
maybe...
but it's stupid.
i want a perfect precision, not at 2-3mm....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As was mentioned above and in another thread all Wacom tablets/pens behave this way so that you can see what you are drawing, not just the note. It takes some getting used to but after a bit of practice it'll become second nature to you, just like the first few times you use a keyboard in your life and you have to search all over for half a minute for a single key
All that said I would like more options exposed for the pen/digitizer just like you get with a Wacom tablet such as tip feel and tilt sensitivity and calibration. Perhaps we should all send Samsung an email requesting a settings app for the pen, and/or ask Wacom if they intend to build an app for their pens for Android since they might appear on more that just Samsung devices now.
Or maybe we'll have to wait for ICS for proper pen settings. Then again someone crafty on XDA might manage it.

I use a lenovo x220T tablet PC with a wacom. On the computer, it will show a little dot wherever you are hovering over the screen. This dot makes a 1-2 mm offset easily usable. Does the galaxy note have this little dot when you are hovering over the screen? If it doesn't, that's the problem...
Maybe once the SDK is out we can create an application to make this dot visible.

1
1 yoy 1

PickleHead said:
I use a lenovo x220T tablet PC with a wacom. On the computer, it will show a little dot wherever you are hovering over the screen. This dot makes a 1-2 mm offset easily usable. Does the galaxy note have this little dot when you are hovering over the screen? If it doesn't, that's the problem...
Maybe once the SDK is out we can create an application to make this dot visible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't seen the hovering dot for pen in apps I've tried so far

I also use a x220t and wish the calibration capability was available on the Note.

have you noticed that you can switch the screen from switching off by keeping the stylus about half a cm from the screen.. the stylus seems to have a method of interacting with the note without touching..

S-Memo problem with in recent upgrade (Germany)

In S-Memo, when the pen style is set to the first one, all the strokes are dash-like at their ends.
The appearance of each stroke automatically becomes normal after a moment, but every new stroke still has the same problem.
For other pen type, it seems that there's no such problem.
Very weird.
Another thing with the new upgrade is that Google Plus is installed by default.
Baseband version: N7000XXLB2
Kernel version: 2.6.35.7

Not sure what you mean exactly, but I experienced in S-Memo
when you draw a straight line with the help of the S-Pen Button *,
it´s getting thinner and thinner in the beginning, and then goes on with the normal thickness up to the end
*point S-Pen on screen, press button, move S-Pen to other location, release button = straight line

ds-droid said:
Not sure what you mean exactly, but I experienced in S-Memo
when you draw a straight line with the help of the S-Pen Button *,
it´s getting thinner and thinner in the beginning, and then goes on with the normal thickness up to the end
*point S-Pen on screen, press button, move S-Pen to other location, release button = straight line
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I mean is, with the first pen type, when I draw a line, which should look like "___", it actually looks like "___." (notice the small dot). The strange thing is that after a while the small dot will automatically be connected with the line and the line looks fine again.
This happens for every stroke I draw, but only with the first pen style.
Thanks for your trick on drawing lines! But I think they should explicitly add this to a toolbar.

yes, with eagles-eyes I can see the dot at the end of the line ____. when you draw quickly.
It dissappears for example after rotating the view.
Regarding the interupted straight lines, it´s a bug too,
but what I find really annoying is,
if you check the recently added "S-Pen only" function (which is great by the way), you cannot pinch to zoom anymore with your fingers.
You can only rotate the Note to get zoom in one setting only. This function seems to be somehow quickly developed, released, and not improved at all with the latest update.
There should be a zoom function (+-) in the dropdown toolbar, which can be accessed by the S-Pen.

Wonder if it is possible to report bug to the Samsung development persons.

I've also noticed the small dots :/

Turn off s-pen hover function

Is there any way to disable the s-pen hover function on the galaxy note? In many apps I get s-pen clicks all over the place, completely unintentionally, because the screen detects the pen hovering close to the screen and reads it as clicks. This is really annoying and I need to turn it off. Most of the time I only want the screen to register my actual clicks with the pen, not the hovering.

bo1e said:
Is there any way to disable the s-pen hover function on the galaxy note? In many apps I get s-pen clicks all over the place, completely unintentionally, because the screen detects the pen hovering close to the screen and reads it as clicks. This is really annoying and I need to turn it off. Most of the time I only want the screen to register my actual clicks with the pen, not the hovering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is an option under Settings> Pen Settings> Hovering pen icon..try disabling it & see if it helps..

Did try that, it only turns on and off the icon or dot showing where the pen is hovering. It does not change the behaviour of registering clicks when just hovering or even just having the s-pen close to the screen. When I got my Note it already had android 4.0.4, but from what I read, the Note did'nt even have the hover functionality before it got ICS. In my opinion the whole hover-thing is flawed, on my Note anyway. Sometimes it responds to hovering with clicking everything, and sometimes it don't.

Your pen is slightly bugged out. Try shaking it a little or gently tapping the front end of the pen (where the tip is) against your hand.
The pen point still has a contact made inside the pen and causes phantom presses.

The pressure sensor may be stuck. Does it draw a line in S Memo when hovering? The line is supposed to get thicker when you press harder and no line at all when not pressing. When the Note first came out, a lot of people had the problem. There were fixes.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app

this is not a Q&A forum

I'm having issues with my note 3. It keeps drawing a line while hovering on text documents? Please what do I do?