Database Users

Clockworkmod recovery

Hi all. Im from the uk and have got the ATRIX on orange. I've rooted it using gingrebreak and all is good. I was just looking through rom manager and found that clockwork now has support for it. I want to install it but just need to know if it will work on my uk ATRIX, and if there's anything else I need to do like unlocking the bootloader? I've rooted and installed custom roms on my htc desire, which now runs f1 gingerbread and works great, so im not a complete noob lol. Just need a few pointers. Any help would be greeeeat. Cheers
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

You'll need to have an unlocked bootloader to install this CWM build.

Ahh I see lol. Do u know if the uk orange bootloader can be unlocked yet? Thanks for replying
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

gaddsta said:
Ahh I see lol. Do u know if the uk orange bootloader can be unlocked yet? Thanks for replying
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it can! You'll have to start in the Atrix Development section, and go to the sticky that starts with [PUDDING]. That's where you'll find your unlock. There are a couple of guides floating around, so make sure you follow those completely!

I shall take a look and ill keep u posted. Thanks a lot
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Did this yesterday on my Telstra Atrix, bricked my phone, had to reinstall OLYEM_U4_1.4.2 and everything else from scratch, got boot error after install of CWM

Bricked? Maybe ill look some more before I commit to it. Might just wait a little longer for update then who knows. Hope ur ATRIX is well again
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

gaddsta said:
Bricked? Maybe ill look some more before I commit to it. Might just wait a little longer for update then who knows. Hope ur ATRIX is well again
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He didn't hard brick, which is unrecoverable. He simply soft-bricked. He might not have unlocked his bootloader properly, or messed with something.
A hard brick can only happen if you flash an OTA update with an updated bootloader, and try to flash an older SBF file. That, in turn, would require use of NVFlash to unbrick, but NVFlash requires you to have your SBK, which seems impossible to get.
He soft bricked. That means that he just can't boot into the OS, and is easily fixed by restoring via Nandroid, or using an SBF file with RSDLite.

I have an international phone (Bell) and you need to flash the bootloader sbf. the international one is called IHOP then you can continue on to flash CWM, not sure if youve already done this but if you need help let me know.

X-play custom rom

Hi I'm new to the custom rom's and instead of searching through countless topics, mixing up instructions. I was wondering if I could get some directions.
Play is unrooted 2.3.3. I would like instructions on how to put a custom rom on the phone, and which custom rom would be recommended. Thanks in advance people.
Sent from my R800a using xda premium

is your phone fastboot enabled? (does the notification light in the power button turn blue if you hold the search button and then connect the usb to computer?)

If you want a custom rom but dont want to search and read these forums, i give your phone a week before you brick it.

swebosdev said:
If you want a custom rom but dont want to search and read these forums, i give your phone a week before you brick it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or we could help people within the comunity to understand what's out there, the risks involved and how to get around the problems that could arise? we all need things explaining to us once in a while.

Oh im sorry i see your point, it is always good to be helpful, i am trying to be helpful as well when i say you should search and read, i mean look at all the countless threads where people didnt want to read, theres like 3 help im bricked threads per page.

lol. i know what you mean. and i know it can be frustrating. it's just a shame that the play is so much more complicated than the x10 that i was previously on. it was all flashtool and update.zip stuff. practically unbrickable!! loved it. fastboot and adb complicate things, and i feel that some of the tutorials can be a little confusing to total noobs. so we need to be accomodating to their lack of knowledge (i hardly know anything, so i'm still quite noobish), but also, people need to accept their own actions and consequences. not sure what i'm getting at now, but things need to be simpler for people who want to start out

Actually the way of installation is exactly the same for any custom ROM in this phone.
1) unlock your bootloader, either for free if you bought a factory unlocked phone or for some cash sending Alejandrissimo a PM, which you have to use if your phone is branded and/or Sim locked. You only need to do this step once.
2) install a custom kernel. There are two: DoomLord's kernel and the Cyanogen Mod kernel. The latter allows you only to install CM7. Doom's allows you to install the others.
3) Enter in Clockwork Mod recovery and install the ROM you prefer as long as your kernel of choice supports it.
As to which ROM you should pick, I use CM7 because it's stable and fast. Visit those threads and see for yourself which is the one you like best.

my personal favorite (until cm7 became more usable, and also because i like dooms kernel) was zerojay's aptly named zerorom. it's a very clean and fast sony based rom full of optimizations and tweaks. i'm currently trying out the FXP028 release of cm7 to see if it's more to my liking than it was in previous releases.

Unfortunately locked to Rogers. Is there a free way of unlocking the bootloader and how?
Again I'm currently running 2.3.3 nonrooted. Had it rooted on 2. 3. 2. but ofcourse lost it with update.
Sent from my R800a using xda premium

8ballhacker said:
Unfortunately locked to Rogers. Is there a free way of unlocking the bootloader and how?
Again I'm currently running 2.3.3 nonrooted. Had it rooted on 2. 3. 2. but ofcourse lost it with update.
Sent from my R800a using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No there isnt.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

If you want root get wantonserver and flash na generic 2.3.2 root it with gingerbreak and then ota update to 2.3.3+

AndroHero said:
No there isnt.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, one free way could be if you could swap a branded phone to someone who doesnt care and has a generic model

solitarymonkey said:
well, one free way could be if you could swap a branded phone to someone who doesnt care and has a generic model
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but paying $20 dollars to get it unlocked sounds like less of a pain in the ass
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

Bump, has anyone been able to get Cyanogen mod onto the Rogers r800a? This locked boot loader is really causing me grief. Have the phone rooted, cwr is installed as well as busy Box. Getting closer, but still no cigar.

mcorbeil said:
Bump, has anyone been able to get Cyanogen mod onto the Rogers r800a? This locked boot loader is really causing me grief. Have the phone rooted, cwr is installed as well as busy Box. Getting closer, but still no cigar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can flash CM7, but i doubt it will boot with stock kernel.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

AndroHero said:
You can flash CM7, but i doubt it will boot with stock kernel.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to confirm, without the proper Kernel I am more than likely to brick my play? Many Thanks!

mcorbeil said:
Just to confirm, without the proper Kernel I am more than likely to brick my play? Many Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You won't brick it, if kernel is incompatible device with either not boot, or bootloop, flahing stock rom with flashtool will fix it though.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

[POLL] Official CWM Rom Manager Support.

Ok guys im making this thread to see who would like to see official CWM Rom manager support, not because I have the ability to do such a thing, it requires our rom and kernel devs.
You need unlocked bootloaderand also doomlords boot manager (to get cwm recovery). Also you need to download rom manager from the market. When choosing the recovery to flash you need to choose htc desire hd.
I was playing with cwm rom manager just now and backed up my rom (wb v6) in one click, phone rebooted and entered recovery and backed up then rebooted upon completion automatically. You can also download roms and google app packages ota from their server from the app. There's even a couple of premium features if you buy the full version.
I want to see some x10 roms up there from our amazing devs and to be able to make the most of this amazing tool.
Im making this thread for people to post their opinions to get devs attention not to give step by step instruction on to use any tools to get your phone bootloader unlocked or flashing boot manager.
Opinions only please.
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

+1 ofc we would like to see our X10 fully supported
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

ROM Manager will never support X10 in flashing recovery from the app. The reason is we can not flash kernels from the os/phone right now. You can select manual override and select a device.
But if remember correctly there was already a thread on this though.
Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1260366
I know search in XDA app is not good
But what can be interesting and helpful is to get OTA updates. It will be great.

CWM Rom Manager support would be freakin' awesome!

realunited123 said:
ROM Manager will never support X10 in flashing recovery from the app. The reason is we can not flash kernels from the os/phone right now. You can select manual override and select a device.
But if remember correctly there was already a thread on this though.
Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1260366
I know search in XDA app is not good
But what can be interesting and helpful is to get OTA updates. It will be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ota would require a possible kernel flash too..
It would be extremely limited, not really any more useful than what is already in place

scoobysnacks said:
Ota would require a possible kernel flash too..
It would be extremely limited, not really any more useful than what is already in place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if it would, I don't know if you tried using the app ever Scooby but it seems to download the rom to sd card and then installs using cwm which we have.
Does anyone know how come we cant yet flash ftf and sin files now bootloader is open? Mayne this I how doom bricked his x10 writing to nand directly but it all is kinda beyond me when we get to really technical stuff like this lol
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

realunited123 said:
ROM Manager will never support X10 in flashing recovery from the app. The reason is we can not flash kernels from the os/phone right now. You can select manual override and select a device.
But if remember correctly there was already a thread on this though.
Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1260366
I know search in XDA app is not good
But what can be interesting and helpful is to get OTA updates. It will be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah I see, I missed that thread when I was on holiday and xda app search come up with nothing useful before I opened this thread.
Sorry Pilot, Mr Clown AMD other mods!
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

The Gingerbread Man said:
I don't know if it would, I don't know if you tried using the app ever Scooby but it seems to download the rom to sd card and then installs using cwm which we have.
Does anyone know how come we cant yet flash ftf and sin files now bootloader is open? Mayne this I how doom bricked his x10 writing to nand directly but it all is kinda beyond me when we get to really technical stuff like this lol
Sent from my X10i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I've used it on my other phones..
As far as ota updates with no radio or kernel upgrade, that would work.
Like I said it would be limited though.
I don't know why x10 can't flash kernels, etc. since the unlocked bootloader. I think that would just require further development and a lot of devs have left

scoobysnacks said:
Yeah I've used it on my other phones..
As far as ota updates with no radio or kernel upgrade, that would work.
Like I said it would be limited though.
I don't know why x10 can't flash kernels, etc. since the unlocked bootloader. I think that would just require further development and a lot of devs have left
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think maybe we need zdzihu to come back to flash ftf and stuff. I think our bootloader is cracked but the flood gates aren't fully open if we can't write to where ever the radio stuff goes.
I guess we can only hope. Would love to be able to use all this stuff to its full potential and do away with the flashtool which is good but not very convenient if your on the go.
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

U know SGS2 can flash anything like from 2.3.3 to 2.3.4 from CWM recovery which includes the kernel upgrade and radio also...
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

sahibunlimited said:
U know SGS2 can flash anything like from 2.3.3 to 2.3.4 from CWM recovery which includes the kernel upgrade and radio also...
Sent from my X10i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol..
Yes 99% of phones with an unlocked bootloader can

scoobysnacks said:
Lol..
Yes 99% of phones with an unlocked bootloader can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what is fast boot?IDK...
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

sahibunlimited said:
But what is fast boot?IDK...
Sent from my X10i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fastboot refers to procedure consisting of
phone part and user part (run on PC) which suits
to update the system over USB (ROM , SPL,
splash screen), mainly it 's used to flash recovery
or custom splashscreen. As long as you follow
the procedure, it 's safe to use it. You don' t
need to install it, it can be used on every
Android system (client part comes with Win SDK
and can be downloaded for Linux also).
With most phones you don't have to flash things this way though, you can boot into the bootloader and flash files manually from your sdcard, our into recovery for roms, etc...

scoobysnacks said:
Fastboot refers to procedure consisting of
phone part and user part (run on PC) which suits
to update the system over USB (ROM , SPL,
splash screen), mainly it 's used to flash recovery
or custom splashscreen. As long as you follow
the procedure, it 's safe to use it. You don' t
need to install it, it can be used on every
Android system (client part comes with Win SDK
and can be downloaded for Linux also).
With most phones you don't have to flash things this way though, you can boot into the bootloader and flash files manually from your sdcard, our into recovery for roms, etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think i read that SE disabled fastboot on x10, im sure i read by azuzu it was disabled. The 2011 xperia range got life easy with sony willing do offer a service for this. why did they make the x10 such a problem child?
I guess though its fair to say they appear to be learning their lesson by offering bootloader unlock for 2011+ range, supporting devs, giving phones away, having proper multitouch, 16m colours and looking at bring out dual core phones.
Its too late for some as people moved on now but if you asked people if they reckoned SE would do all this in a couple of years tehy would turn round and say yeah right! IM glad i stuck it out and its been totally worth it to have my x10 how it is now and love it.
Im going off topic big style in my own thread lol

The Gingerbread Man said:
I think i read that SE disabled fastboot on x10, im sure i read by azuzu it was disabled. The 2011 xperia range got life easy with sony willing do offer a service for this. why did they make the x10 such a problem child?
I guess though its fair to say they appear to be learning their lesson by offering bootloader unlock for 2011+ range, supporting devs, giving phones away, having proper multitouch, 16m colours and looking at bring out dual core phones.
Its too late for some as people moved on now but if you asked people if they reckoned SE would do all this in a couple of years tehy would turn round and say yeah right! IM glad i stuck it out and its been totally worth it to have my x10 how it is now and love it.
Im going off topic big style in my own thread lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not touching this topic I get flamed ever time I do lol

scoobysnacks said:
I'm not touching this topic I get flamed ever time I do lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol
10 char

Root questions

Hi all,
I pre ordered my 16gb nexus 7 last week.
And I am thinking I will root it as soon as it arrives, but I have the following worries/questions:
If I root and unlock the bootloader, will I still get ota updates?
If I root and unlock the bootloader, is it possible to re-root it and re-lock the bootloader for warranty purposes?
Is the a large chance of bricking it by rooting it? Or is it quite safe now?
Is the any real reason why I shouldn't root it?
Sorry for all these questions, but I am currently using a rooted galaxy s2, and that comes with the bootloader pre-unlocked, so I am not familiar with locked bootloader lol
Thanks in advance for any help
Cheers corey
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Ps,
I also noticed that the are a few methods of rooting the n7, does anyone know which method that installs Cwm permanently is best?
Cheers
Corey
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Yes you will be still able to get OTA updates, though you may will lose root after an OTA. It's only when you begin flashing alternate recoveries, kernels, ROMs etc. will you lose the ability to receive OTAs.
I'm not sure what you mean by re-root again (maybe you mean unroot??). But from the Nexus trend, you will be able to relock the bootloader after unlocking it (though I don't see a point unless you're about to return it). Regarding the unroot thing, all you have to do is just reflash the stock ROM or just remove the su binary and the su management application (SuperSU or Superuser).
It's relatively safe to say that you can root it without bricking your tablet. These days, it's pretty hard to actually brick your device unless you do something absolutely moronic i.e. flash the wrong bootloader.
Well, to answer your question, do you need root? If you don't need it nor do you understand what its purpose is, don't. Some uses include being able to access /system/ to maybe delete bloatware (there shouldn't be any on a Nexus device), some apps may get further functionality e.g. some apps might intentionally auto-turn on your GPS when you've lost your phone etc.
Clockwork recovery is totally separate to root. A recovery is used to flash things e.g. root, ROMs, kernels etc. When CWR is released for the Nexus 7, all you have to do is run "fastboot flash recovery <name of recovery>.img" (well that's what I'd run since I'm using Linux).

Hi,
Yes I did mean unroot lol, I was typing it from my phone lol.
Ok thanks heaps, I will root it as soon as it arrives lol.
And yes I know all about root, I have a galaxy s2 which has been rooted a year, and I spend most of my day flashing mods and roms lol. I just wasn't familiar with locked bootloader.
But you said that if I flash recoveries I won't receive ota updates, so if I flash Cwm recovery, will I not receive ota updates?
Thanks heaps for all your help
Cheers
Corey
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

fishingfon said:
Hi,
Yes I did mean unroot lol, I was typing it from my phone lol.
Ok thanks heaps, I will root it as soon as it arrives lol.
And yes I know all about root, I have a galaxy s2 which has been rooted a year, and I spend most of my day flashing mods and roms lol. I just wasn't familiar with locked bootloader.
But you said that if I flash recoveries I won't receive ota updates, so if I flash Cwm recovery, will I not receive ota updates?
Thanks heaps for all your help
Cheers
Corey
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh righteo, a locked bootloader just means you can't flash anything. And yes, you are correct, if you flash any recovery that isn't stock and matches with the build of Android, you will lose the ability to receive OTAs.
No worries .

Can it be rooted from a Mac book?? (My bros not mine lol) I always root my devices ..never had a tablet nor a nexus so just wondering..if I can I'll figure the rest
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium

armyboy11b said:
Can it be rooted from a Mac book?? (My bros not mine lol) I always root my devices ..never had a tablet nor a nexus so just wondering..if I can I'll figure the rest
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it can be rooted on all the main OS's.

[ROOT][.253]Xperia Z Rooted (no others roms)

I finally rooted my Xperia Z, using recovery. I upgraded my firmware to .253 and flashed this:
-Root by recovery by Emerald
in CWM (TWRP aslo works, obviously).
Screens:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5804/screenshot2013051723013.png
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6540/screenshot2013051723012.png

Hey mate,
This seems great.
Can you provide more details pls.
And some instructions?
I am on 1.253 very stock without CWM.
Regards
Sent from my C6603 using xda app-developers app

andreipga85 said:
Hey mate,
This seems great.
Can you provide more details pls.
And some instructions?
I am on 1.253 very stock without CWM.
Regards
Sent from my C6603 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using DooMKernel v6 (cause I like it), with this kernel you have CWM just flashing by fastboot boot.img (guide in that topic) and then you can flash .zip file in first post here

1. Is it for Locked or Unlocked bootloader?
2. Is it Deodexed?

So you need to unlock the BL. With not rooted stock fw you can't backup your ta partition before doing that

mmamedov said:
1. Is it for Locked or Unlocked bootloader?
2. Is it Deodexed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course is an Unloocked bootloader!
Just stock rom, no edit
unistalled systems app with link2sd, so it works great

ccab said:
So you need to unlock the BL. With not rooted stock fw you can't backup your ta partition before doing that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have UNLOCKED bootloader, root and TWRP recovery.
Anyway, I've got an answer. Thank you, EmeraldTimer for uploading rom. I will try to deodex it

Dude none of that is what gave you root. Flashing DooMKernel is what gave you root access. You will never loose root with a unlocked boot loader and a custom kernel.
EmeraldTimer said:
I finally rooted my Xperia Z, using recovery. I upgraded my firmware to .253 and flashed this:
-Root by recovery by Emerald
in CWM (TWRP aslo works, obviously).
Screens:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5804/screenshot2013051723013.png
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6540/screenshot2013051723012.png
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yes you will lose root, but you may get it back anytime and in no time by simply flashing a superuser zip (which this effectively is, it's simply a superuser flashable zip). Preferrably one of the newer superuser management tools like SuperSU or Superuser by Koush. Superuser by ChainsDD is showing it's age and doesn't work properly anymore.

I flashed doomlords 1.25 supersu zip from his doomkernel thread and I hav root as well..
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium

This is common knowledge

While we don't have an exploit, can we not just flash .434 then root, backup TA, unlock, flash or upgrade to .253, root again then relock and restore TA?
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

alexp999 said:
While we don't have an exploit, can we not just flash .434 then root, backup TA, unlock, flash or upgrade to .253, root again then relock and restore TA?
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would work. However messing with TA can hard brick your phone if something goes wrong. There is a less risk way to root .253 without touching TA.
1. Install .434 and root
2. Install CWM or TWRP recovery for locked bootloader
3. Flash pre-rooted 253 zip from bootloader
4. Use flashtool to flash .253 kernel, baseband and FOTA
Now you got a rooted .253
pre-rooted .253:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2279661
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2282415

alexp999 said:
While we don't have an exploit, can we not just flash .434 then root, backup TA, unlock, flash or upgrade to .253, root again then relock and restore TA?
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can, I am doing that but still need flash fixed root auto restart issue when locked back.

Michealtbh said:
This is common knowledge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not THAT common ive been buzzing around these forums since it came out thinking i couldnt root and was waiting for people to crack the root.
Now this thread actually explained to me that with my UL ill never loose root. So yea it was good to know, and its not like im a noob on these forums.
I used this method and it worked so thank you OP.

Why unlock for stock rom? It can be already done without unlocking. Even the latest firmware.
Also OP should modify the posts title to iclude "unlocked". It is misleading now.

exekias said:
not THAT common
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, uuhm... how can the knowledge, that putting a su binary and a su rights management program on your device via a flashable zip results in root access, NOT be common? Isn't that what it really is all about?
I'm a 100% with @Michealtbh on this one. Too many peeps which know very little to nothing about the very basic must-know-how-it-works-things around these days. Guys "doing stuff" to their devices should possess a very basic understanding of system mechanics, IMHO.

schaggo said:
Well, uuhm... how can the knowledge, that putting a su binary and a su rights management program on your device via a flashable zip results in root access, NOT be common? Isn't that what it really is all about?
I'm a 100% with @Michealtbh on this one. Too many peeps which know very little to nothing about the very basic must-know-how-it-works-things around these days. Guys "doing stuff" to their devices should possess a very basic understanding of system mechanics, IMHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't think you have the right to dictate what people do and don't know. Not to mention commenting on what people don't know it's the opposite to the aim of these forums.
At least for people benefited from this thread so it's served a purpose. This is a forum not a Wiki you can't attack people for what they do and do not know the intrinsic knowledge needed its quite alot and can only acquired through time and Redding the right threads.
In my own situation my previous Sony was an arc that at the time needed an exploit to root. After that I had a nexus that needed no exploits due to its nature. Now I'm back on Sony and I just assumed we still needed per -software exploits. The thread is filled with people talking about losing root with this upgrade so I just assumed and waited for a new exploit to be discovered. I did not know that the exploit was not needed if your unlocked. So sorry for not knowing all that you know I'll make sure to petition for a sticky that you can dump your worldy knowledge their and so we implement a criteria that you cannot post on this forum until you know everything in the post. How does that sound?
Sent from my C6603 using XDA Premium HD app

exekias said:
not THAT common ive been buzzing around these forums since it came out thinking i couldnt root and was waiting for people to crack the root.
Now this thread actually explained to me that with my UL ill never loose root. So yea it was good to know, and its not like im a noob on these forums.
I used this method and it worked so thank you OP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have an unlocked bootloader the easiest and most common method of rooting for pretty much every Android device is flashing a recovery then flashing a su.zip. Easy. I assumed 90% of XDA users knew this.

Michealtbh said:
If you have an unlocked bootloader the easiest and most common method of rooting for pretty much every Android device is flashing a recovery then flashing a su.zip. Easy. I assumed 90% of XDA users knew this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well sorry for being the 10% who didn't next time I'll save my inquiries for a a place on the internet where we are allowed to ask questions about topical instances like a forum or something, I'll leav you guys and your elite group of know-it-all's alone shall I.