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[Mods: I felt that this thread is most appropriate in this section as it pertains specifically to Android development. If you feel this is not the case and should be moved, please do so.]
As many of us know, Eugene and TeamWhiskey both released completely working Froyo ROMs today, and they were able to do so with leaked code that both were asked not to divulge. There's been some infighting between developers, and the use of the leaked code is the major point of contention.
What interests me is how developers have been respecting the GPL. As a major free/open source supporter, the fact that how this license permits developers and users alike to use any source code has not been respected scares me. I certainly don't want to see development of our phones fall by the wayside because some developers have access to code that others don't, when that code [or at least, the source code of developed ROMs that use leaked code] is legally required to be released to the public. (source, and examples of the GPL's standing in an American court of law)
Based on the current events and major milestones in Android development, I'm interested to see if anyone else agrees with me. (Or perhaps I'm wrong entirely - but there's a sticky on the top of this forum reminding developers about abiding by the GPL, so I assume that any ROM or kernel we've seen is GPL-derived.) I realize that some aspects of the Samsung version of Android in particular is under a proprietary license (TouchWiz, RFS), and this little point gets touchy. But Android itself and kernels for Android are GPL - so shouldn't any source code used by any Android project be released?
honestly? I'm concerned about the GPL implications too but I'm 100% sure that I don't have enough information to try to form an opinion about what's right or wrong in this scenario. I'm sure there is a lot going on in the background the average user such as myself doesn't know of what's going on here. edit: trying to speculate here is just too hard to guess, and would invoke both drama and the answers are not backed by anyone.
If you're not sure, ask the FSF.
Eugene and Sombionix need to take up their issues privately (and have since), and that was their only mistake. The rest of the scenario is simply not appropriate to come up publicly.
Although, I agree with the fact that the GPL has to be followed, the GPL only applies to source code. From what I gather, neither of these parties have any source code. They are both in the possession of a leak ROM. The word source here is used to mean the ROM from which the files came from.
When it comes to leaks, files in leaks CAN be traced back to the leak in some cases which is why many times, leaks cannot and will not be shared.
On the other hand, if they have the source code and it has been modified, then they must abide by the GPL.
One thing to consider here is that to the best of my knowledge, nobody other than Samsung at this point has the source to the SGS FroYo builds. What I mean by that is; everything that went on regarding the leak, is based off of binary files taken from a working phone. No source code involved. Google has released the code to 2.2, which satisfies the GPL licensing; with which Samsung has added proprietary software on top of for use with their phones, but because what they have added is NOT GPL'd, are not obligated to provide the source for.
I might be mistaken here, but assuming Samsung didn't change any of the existing AOSP code, and only added their proprietary software on top, then the 'must provide source code' clause is in fact being satisfied by Google. All Samsung needs to do to cover their behinds is provide a link to Google's Android development pages.
if it was GPLv3 we wouldn't have this problem, but a lot of companies are unwilling to jump to GPLv3 instead of GPLv2.
To clarify the position XDA takes on GPL code (having worked on the GPL policy you see at the top of every forum), it is required to release kernel sources if you have access to them.
It seems likely that no source code was available here, and the use of leaks in ROMs has been standard practice for a long time on XDA, and on other sites. There's no issue with this, and it is a signal of trust from the leaker to the developer that the source file will not be made available. Thus you are unlikely to get access to such leaks as a user, though you can enjoy the fruits of them after established developers with contacts have got access to them.
If it were insisted that sources be provided for EVERYTHING, then releases like this would be in breach of the XDA GPL code, and thus would stifle development. Samsung has not provided them with the sources (as I understand), so they have no obligations as far as I can identify, beyond passing on any standard notices placed in the ROM by Samsung, offering source code.
If a custom kernel was compiled to use the ROM, then its sources would be required under the GPL. The actual ROM itself is not GPL'd as such, and treating it as such would be detrimental to users on XDA.
If GPL sources have been used, then they must be posted per the GPL. Otherwise, there are no further obligations per the XDA rules. This does not appear to be the case here.
Just to back up this point, I worked on and released some ROMs, and never touched a line of source code personally. It's possible to do a surprising amount to ROMs without actually editing sources (often they're not available either when working on HTC devices...). It's only within the last month or two that I've actually looked at source code properly with intent on making changes.
Finally, I'll move this into general with a redirect for just now, as it's not directly related to a ROM, though is "on topic".
Ah - so the leaked code used to finish both Eugene's and Team Whiskey's was not code, but binaries (i.e., a leaked ROM?) This makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks for clarification.
I suppose this point becomes moot when froyo finally drops officially, but it's still important.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Well said Pulser_g2
Pulser.......Well said. The important thing people need to remember is not to "create" drama where it is not. The Dev's do work in concert and do produce amazing results contrary to the public chatter.
It is a blessing that there are so many good developers working on the Vibrant vs, say ...(you insert phone of choice). ......now off to flash............
As I mentioned in one of the Froyo threads, I feel like the GPL doesn't really apply in the case of leaked ROMs, since 1) nobody has the source anyway and 2) they're chock full of closed source Samsung bits. The leaked ROMS, and any ROM derived from it in some way, is already questionable to redistribute since Samsung hasn't granted permission to do so.
On the other hand, I do wish people would release source to any modifications of the Linux kernel and any other GPL software that's acquired through legitimate channels. I can understand that the source might be released slightly later than the binary, but most kernels at this point haven't had any source accompany them, ever. This really isn't in the spirit of the GPL, and as a long time Linux user it came as a surprise to me that this is the way things seem to work here.
The bottom line is that, like it or not, people actually don't have the *right* to not release source eventually. I hope they start doing so sooner rather than later.
Looks like a lot of people don't understand the GPL, even senior moderators.
We ARE talking about the GPL, not LGPL, right?
Samsung hasn't made any of the stuff they have posted official... Why would samsung release anything for something that is not yet official...
How would the devs of xda be able to give you the source they don't have?
If you want to fight a losing battle email htc about the mytouch slide..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First, I'm not trying to start a web battle here, just stating the facts.
1. The files that I received from our source gave me consent via email to build a rom and release it. Unfortunately, after the fact the rom was built and released, the source has been claiming that he did not want the files released, which was not at all what was discussed originally. Had he clearly stated that he did not want them released, I would not have done so. He specifically asked me to build a rom, but that he did not want his identity released, which I did not do.
2. You information regarding GPL is very wrong. We were not working from souce because source for the Vibrant 2.2 has not yet been released. The only Galaxy S device that has had source officially released has been the I9000. Had we been working from source, we would have gladly posted our edited source code with accordance with GPL law.
sombionix said:
2. You information regarding GPL is very wrong. We were not working from souce because source for the Vibrant 2.2 has not yet been released. The only Galaxy S device that has had source officially released has been the I9000. Had we been working from source, we would have gladly posted our edited source code with accordance with GPL law.
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Yeah, this was my mistake. I was under the impression that you were working from source, not just a ROM, as was previously pointed out. So I guess it's a moot point.
Have anyone found kernel source for this model?
i have seen discussion on roms without gpl, and is this model released with kernel source available?
I believe Google has not released source for Honeycomb yet. That is the answer I got when I asked the same question over at thriveforums.org.
mknewman said:
I believe Google has not released source for Honeycomb yet. That is the answer I got when I asked the same question over at thriveforums.org.
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Click to collapse
indeed google have, and kernel source needs to be posted, or roms on this forum seems to be illegal.. xda don't allow roms with a gpl kernel without source code linked, if its posted..
so thats pretty sad for toshiba.
even android 3.2 source is available, so toshiba thrive has to release their source now.. but 3.1 will do fine to begin with.
This is how it works. Various parts of the software are licensed by different entities. So the Android source includes Google's code and anything Toshiba does is affected. Android is under and open source license, but it is built on top of GNU/Linux. The Linux kernel is under the Greater Public License which requires the source to be distributed or accessible by request online when the binary is distributed. Typically as companies go though their code making sure they only release source they are supposed to and don't accidentally release proprietary code it may take them a while to post it. Regardless it must be posted or things get a little hot when advocates press for it.
exactly, xda rules says no uploads on information roms including gpl kernels without source included..
so its kinda funny if toshiba continue not to post it. maybe i should request it from toshiba somewhere..
The Kernal has been requested multiple times over on the Toshiba run forum. Users have even started to pull out the legal aspect of it citing the 30 day requirement and expamples of HTC getting into hot water when they passed that deadline.
I think Toshiba is just now realizing they HAVE to post it.
I started a thread over on Toshiba's forum and indeed did explain that they have 30 days to release. "Jim" said he would look into it but then came back and made it sound like "contact our legal team".
This is meant as warning for every developer who considers to work with Elephone:
One of their moderators (kaokao) on the official Elephone forum distributes cracked apps!
I did bring this forward to Supermoderators Crazy and Ethan -> nothing happened
I did write an open letter to Elephone as a thread ( bbs.elephone.hk /thread-5956-1-1.html ):
To whom it may concern,
It is interesting how Elephone hides behind "copyright" protection and does not release the open source kernel source codes of all Android based phones, and then has an employee (kaokao) who does not give a damn about copyright.
Elephone:
Please can you explain this two faced behaviour.
Kaokao is a Moderator on this forum, which is the official Elephone forum.
Hence Kaokao is an employee of Elephone even if he does not get any money of Elephone.
He represents this company.
By listing constantly crack apks in the app forum, at least he commits to a crime.
He and Elephone -with this being an official Elephone channel- steal from programmers and other companies!
Yours sincerely
Tina Schulz
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Crazy just replied there:
It is your decision whether to download it or not
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Click to collapse
IMHO this is not acceptable!
On one hand Elephone does declare via their moderators, the kernel they use contains closed source software of MediaTek and so they cannot make it public. By the way a kernel is always open source GNU GLP2! On the other hand two Elephone staff members promote software theft , paid or not they are moderators on the official Elephone forum so they are Elephone staff!!!
I tried to explain to them numerous times that the kernel source code is under GNU GPL2 and has to be published. If they did the error to compile closed source drivers as device drivers into the kernel, that this can be undone by taking them out of the kernel and to call them as driver modules. Some of my post where just deleted as they never existed.
I just write this down here for everyone to have a look and to judge themselves.
I've read the whole thread on their forums where you were arguing regarding the source code unavailability of the kernel. This is really a pity from Elephone. I think the FSF should really take charge on such GPL violators like MediaTek,and their subcontractors like Ulefone, Elephone, etc. Wiko, a French company, using MediaTek based devices is releasing the kernel sources of their devices.
Hii to all Huawei 8 owners,
Maybe some good news afterall, but maybe .. we will see
This is the info I got today and I said it I will report it back to all of you guys...
This is it what I have got
Just did copy paste from my inbox and attached a picture so that you can see that this is real messege sent to me
Re: Regarding the XDA community and Honor 8 partnership
Hi there,
I can give you an explanation for everything. Can you please post it so everyone can see? Here it is:
Quote:
Hi everyone! I just wanted to give you an update on Honor and the release of their kernel source, as well as our efforts to encourage development on Honor devices on XDA.
We started working with them in August 2016. One of the stipulations of our partnership was that they make kernel source available, to encourage development.
By October, they had released kernel source for the Honor 8. As a result, we had healthy development with early builds of CyanogenMod (now LineageOS, of course), as well as RR, working TWRP, and more. This was thanks in large part to a small team of Honor developers we assembled, comprised of @surdu_petru, @XePeleato, and @hackslash. This team also submitted to me a request to Honor to fill in some missing spots in their kernel source release, specifically the Trustzone driver, and precompiled libraries compatible with AOSP. Around that time, our partnership with Honor was ending.
Since early 2017, all kernel source has disappeared from Huawei's website, much to our disappointment, and yours. We are in contact with Honor, and soon to renew our agreement, and they claim that kernel source will be back online by the end of May. Since Huawei is such a big company and things are very slow, it might take longer than that. Also, we're not sure if they will re-release the MM kernel source, or that for Nougat. We are awaiting their answer but we are heavily pushing them to do what the community wants.
We made significant progress with Honor in 2H 2016 thanks to our agreement, and we hope that starting in June, we will resume this progress with the goal of opening up Honor devices, including the new Honor 8 Pro, so that developers have what they need and users can enjoy customization of their devices.
Please PM me anytime with any questions or concerns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brljak83
Hii
I have been reading about Honor 8 here on XDA since I got the phone
We all Honor 8 users are very satisfide with the phone it self
But a big number of us are just disappointed with the
Huawei Honor 8 agreement between Huawei and XDA community
to give us not just better support but also the source code..
I am here not as a developer couse I am not one
I am here couse I want to speak in the name of
all Honor 8 users ( allmost all of us are disappointed )
with someone from the XDA community
I want that someone form the XDA community who can and is willing to
give me ( over the mail ) some answer or to all of us in the forum of Honor 8
if Huawei and XDA community agreement is just some kind of a lie..
And if not when will we get what is promised to us.. give us some timeline or something..
Please give us something, or do something for what is promised to us
Couse many Honor 8 users are thinking that this is just some sort of a lie
And they are very disappointed and thinking that never will be anything happening
I thing they are so much disappointed that they lost evan the will to ask you on XDA community and are thinking that it is just some sort of a lie
for what is said and promised.. but I am one of the optimist and I am still saying that
the best is yet to come
Hope for some answer and that we still will be getting the support that is promised
And I am hoping not to get disappointed too like many already are
Please give me as soon as possible some answer from either Huawei ( by contacting them as XDA community becouse of the agreement you guys had made for us ) or either some answer just
from the XDA community if you happen to know anything about the things that are promised
by that agreement if and when they will happen..
Thanks for taking your time and reading this
Best regards
Brljak83
svetius
-----
User Experience Admin
xda-developers
I've had smoke blown up my ass many times. Same old song and dance.
Sent from my FRD-L04 using XDA Premium HD app
This is a request for help from XDA mods and community leaders.
Asus max phones have gained significant popularity in some countries like India, Indonesia and Russia. Asus has just released updated versions of the series a few days back. They are also very frequent on providing users with updates. The community is fairly happy on that front.
However there is one big challenge lately. For past two source code releases of the Max Pro M1 as well as the first one for Max Pro M2, source code zip uploaded on Asus website contains only encrypted gibberish, and all of ~600 MB.
Not only is this a hindrance for the development and modding community, but a violation of GPL.
Is it possible to reach out to ASUS and ask them rectify this?
Details here for Max Pro M1:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KudDroid/status/1072421711927238657?s=20
Asus download page
https://www.asus.com/in/Phone/ZenFone-Max-Pro-ZB601KL/HelpDesk_Download/
Direct link to the zip
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZB601KL/ZB601KL_ZB602KL_15.2016.1810.337_Kernel_Code.zip
Discover is thanks to @krasCGQ
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78214515&postcount=37
This is pathetic. I doubt that this is purely a mistake.
candiesdoodle said:
This is a request for help from XDA mods and community leaders.
Asus max phones have gained significant popularity in some countries like India, Indonesia and Russia. Asus has just released updated versions of the series a few days back. They are also very frequent on providing users with updates. The community is fairly happy on that front.
However there is one big challenge lately. For past two source code releases of the Max Pro M1 as well as the first one for Max Pro M2, source code zip uploaded on Asus website contains only encrypted gibberish, and all of ~600 MB.
Not only is this a hindrance for the development and modding community, but a violation of GPL.
Is it possible to reach out to ASUS and ask them rectify this?
Details here for Max Pro M1:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KudDroid/status/1072421711927238657?s=20
Asus download page
https://www.asus.com/in/Phone/ZenFone-Max-Pro-ZB601KL/HelpDesk_Download/
Direct link to the zip
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZB601KL/ZB601KL_ZB602KL_15.2016.1810.337_Kernel_Code.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what's the point of even releasing it then lol
Y u do this @Asus... !!???
candiesdoodle said:
This is a request for help from XDA mods and community leaders.
Asus max phones have gained significant popularity in some countries like India, Indonesia and Russia. Asus has just released updated versions of the series a few days back. They are also very frequent on providing users with updates. The community is fairly happy on that front.
However there is one big challenge lately. For past two source code releases of the Max Pro M1 as well as the first one for Max Pro M2, source code zip uploaded on Asus website contains only encrypted gibberish, and all of ~600 MB.
Not only is this a hindrance for the development and modding community, but a violation of GPL.
Is it possible to reach out to ASUS and ask them rectify this?
Details here for Max Pro M1:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KudDroid/status/1072421711927238657?s=20
Asus download page
https://www.asus.com/in/Phone/ZenFone-Max-Pro-ZB601KL/HelpDesk_Download/
Direct link to the zip
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZB601KL/ZB601KL_ZB602KL_15.2016.1810.337_Kernel_Code.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so wrong, Asus has to do something and fix this.?
Wtf
candiesdoodle said:
This is a request for help from XDA mods and community leaders.
Asus max phones have gained significant popularity in some countries like India, Indonesia and Russia. Asus has just released updated versions of the series a few days back. They are also very frequent on providing users with updates. The community is fairly happy on that front.
However there is one big challenge lately. For past two source code releases of the Max Pro M1 as well as the first one for Max Pro M2, source code zip uploaded on Asus website contains only encrypted gibberish, and all of ~600 MB.
Not only is this a hindrance for the development and modding community, but a violation of GPL.
Is it possible to reach out to ASUS and ask them rectify this?
Details here for Max Pro M1:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KudDroid/status/1072421711927238657?s=20
Asus download page
https://www.asus.com/in/Phone/ZenFone-Max-Pro-ZB601KL/HelpDesk_Download/
Direct link to the zip
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZB601KL/ZB601KL_ZB602KL_15.2016.1810.337_Kernel_Code.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This must have to fixed, this is so wrong????,?
This is beginning to get traction
https://piunikaweb.com/2018/12/12/a...rces-for-zenfone-max-m2-family-on-launch-day/
That's a serious problem
candiesdoodle said:
This is a request for help from XDA mods and community leaders.
Asus max phones have gained significant popularity in some countries like India, Indonesia and Russia. Asus has just released updated versions of the series a few days back. They are also very frequent on providing users with updates. The community is fairly happy on that front.
However there is one big challenge lately. For past two source code releases of the Max Pro M1 as well as the first one for Max Pro M2, source code zip uploaded on Asus website contains only encrypted gibberish, and all of ~600 MB.
Not only is this a hindrance for the development and modding community, but a violation of GPL.
Is it possible to reach out to ASUS and ask them rectify this?
Details here for Max Pro M1:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KudDroid/status/1072421711927238657?s=20
Asus download page
https://www.asus.com/in/Phone/ZenFone-Max-Pro-ZB601KL/HelpDesk_Download/
Direct link to the zip
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZB601KL/ZB601KL_ZB602KL_15.2016.1810.337_Kernel_Code.zip
Discover is thanks to @krasCGQ
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78214515&postcount=37
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
candiesdoodle said:
This is a request for help from XDA mods and community leaders.
Asus max phones have gained significant popularity in some countries like India, Indonesia and Russia. Asus has just released updated versions of the series a few days back. They are also very frequent on providing users with updates. The community is fairly happy on that front.
However there is one big challenge lately. For past two source code releases of the Max Pro M1 as well as the first one for Max Pro M2, source code zip uploaded on Asus website contains only encrypted gibberish, and all of ~600 MB.
Not only is this a hindrance for the development and modding community, but a violation of GPL.
Is it possible to reach out to ASUS and ask them rectify this?
Details here for Max Pro M1:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KudDroid/status/1072421711927238657?s=20
Asus download page
https://www.asus.com/in/Phone/ZenFone-Max-Pro-ZB601KL/HelpDesk_Download/
Direct link to the zip
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZB601KL/ZB601KL_ZB602KL_15.2016.1810.337_Kernel_Code.zip
Discover is thanks to @krasCGQ
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78214515&postcount=37[/QUO
Y asus y
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no point in releasing the kernel sources then. Is there ?
This is completely wrong. I bought this device after reading on XDA that kernel source of this device was released (probably even before the device went for sale). Vanilla Android with released kernel source in that price range seemed a pretty good deal. And I'm happy with my purchase.
I'm not a developer myself. But as a person who loves to use custom ROMs and kernels and stuffs, I know how important kenrel source is.
So far the device got a good (better than many devices) development support.
Now that Asus encrypted the kernel source, it is affecting the development. I personally feel like cheated. It's like drawning a huge number of ROM enthusiast buyers to the product, and then betray them. It worries me even more because official Pie is releasing in February.
Why release the source in the first place if you're gonna encrypt the newer versions later? Plus, its a violation of GPL. What's next? Making Bootloader Unlocking impossible like Huawei / Honor did??
We are not asking much from Asus. We are not asking to fix bug or to add new features. We are just asking Asus to give what they gave in the first place, the very reason many of us bought this device. Asus, please do not encrypt the source, please make the source usable for the developers...
Thank you.
Asus should take action on these immediately. why released encryption when no use. they think we are blind users . common asus dont play games. as per ur statements in relese u should release then open source code. i think it whould bump to twitter and zentalk forum so they can see it as major issue. so twitter response is must and zentalk too. post these on zentalk too.
Well I Just Bought this Phone one month ago.. 11/11/2018 now i felt sad why asus whai u do this
Thn why even release encrypted one. Asus this is not acceptable.
Whats the point of source release like this.
WTH!! is wrong with ASUS , it shud not be like this ????
kecewa
3rd time using asus, and tweaking still not good.
They must release kernel source without encryption.
This sucks. I hope this will get enough highlight so that Asus will revert back to open releases of kernal source code.
Damn I didn't expect Asus will do that thing..