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http://www.slate.com/id/2244165/
What's Wrong With Android
If Google fixes one simple thing, its operating system will surpass the iPhone's.
By Farhad Manjoo
Posted Tuesday, Feb. 9, 2010, at 5:48 PM ET
Nexus One. Click image to expand.Nexus One When Google launched the Nexus One in January, the company hit on an odd bit of marketing to distinguish the new phone from its rivals. This was a "superphone," Google said—every other cellular device on the market was merely "smart." The designation didn't make much sense—despite what Google would have you believe, the Nexus One doesn't have any major features that set it apart from other top-of-the-line phones. It makes calls, does e-mail, and browses the Web; so do the iPhone, the Palm Pre, various BlackBerrys, and every other Android phone. All top-end smartphones have Wi-Fi, 3G, and GPS. They've all got app stores that can give you access to a wide variety of third-party programs. And though smartphones come in two distinct hardware flavors—either with or without a physical keyboard—they are all very pretty to look at.
If you're looking to buy a new smartphone, then, the most important thing to ask isn't "What does it do?" Instead, it's "How does it do it?" Phones that seem identical on paper turn out to be wildly different once you turn them on. The most important feature on any phone is one rarely mentioned in a spec list: the operating system. If the OS is clunky and overstuffed, like what you'll find on the BlackBerry, you'll have a devil of a time doing everything on your device. If it's stylish and intuitive, like the iPhone's, you'll find your phone a pleasure.
So where does the Nexus One fall in that range? Right near the top. I've been using Google's new phone for a month, more or less as a replacement for my own phone, the iPhone 3GS. Google has described the Nexus One as a kind of concept car for its open-source Android platform—the company designed the phone from top-to-bottom in order to show off how awesome an Android phone can really be. To that end, the Nexus One succeeds. If I were forced to give up my iPhone, I'd replace it with a Nexus One.
But I hope that doesn't come to pass. I like the Nexus One, I really do—but it has a long way to go to catch up with Apple's device.
The essential problem is that Android's interface is much less intuitive than the iPhone's. Much of the OS's functionality is hidden—Android can do a lot, but unlike the iPhone it keeps many of its options stuffed in menu bars. As a result, the Nexus One asks new users to climb a steeper learning curve. You've got to poke around every program to find out how to do its most basic tasks. Even once you've learned the easy stuff, the OS is still a struggle—it takes several steps to do something on Android that you can do in one step on the iPhone.
To illustrate my point, look at both phones' calendar programs. Here are shots of each phone's "month view"—the Nexus One is on the left, and the iPhone on the right:*
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As you can see, the Nexus One's screen offers a bit more detail than the iPhone's. It gives you a little indicator bar next to each day of the month to show how much of the day has been booked up, while the iPhone adds only a small bold dot on any day with an appointment—which doesn't tell you much in a quick glance.
But say you want to change your calendar—if you need to add an appointment or switch to a daily view, for instance. Even if you've never used one before, it's obvious how you'd do so on the iPhone—every button is right on the screen. To add an appointment, just click the plus sign in the top right corner. To switch to a daily view, hit "Day." To look at another calendar, tap the "Calendars" button.
Doing those same things on the Nexus One isn't as obvious, because many of its functions are hidden in a list of options that require you to hit an additional button first—the phone's universal Menu button, which is not on the screen but under it, one of four built-in buttons below the screen. To add an appointment, you've got to hit Menu first, then click the Plus icon. To switch to the weekly view, do the same thing—first hit Menu, then choose the weekly option. But that's not all: There's another menu button hidden under this menu. When you hit this menu-within-menu, you'll get another list of options, including one to adjust which of your calendars is displayed—an option that, on the iPhone, is presented on the calendar's main screen.
This problem is not confined to the calendar app—it's everywhere on Android, in Google's built-in apps as well as third-party programs you download from the app store. To search for an address in the iPhone's map program, you click the search bar at the top of your screen; to do the same thing in Android's map program, you hit Menu first, then Search. To load a bookmarked Web page in the iPhone's browser, you hit the bookmark icon. To do so in Android, you've got to—you guessed it—hit Menu first, then Bookmark.
Android partisans might counter that you need to learn only one thing to use the phone: When in doubt, hit Menu and everything will be revealed. That's true; after using the Nexus One for some time, I eventually learned to click this universal button when an option wasn't immediately visible. But the constant menu hunting isn't ideal. First, it's a hurdle to new users—it's not obvious that you've got to keep clicking this button to look for features that ought to be highlighted on a single screen. What's more, the hidden menus slow you down. The whole point of loading up the maps program is to look up an address; why would you hide that option under a menu bar?
I think the answer comes down to a philosophical difference between the Apple and Google user interface teams. With the iPhone, Apple is clearly trying to make a complete break with desktop operating systems. The iPhone's Human Interface Guidelines—Apple's instructions for developers creating iPhone apps—are clear on this point, stressing that every iPhone app should highlight its main functions on its main screen, using icons that are easy to understand. "Make it obvious," the guidelines chide developers: "You can't assume that users have the time (or can spare the attention) to figure out how your application works. Therefore, you should strive to make your application instantly understandable to users."
The Android platform is much looser in this regard. Its interface guidelines don't discourage hidden menus: "All but the simplest applications have menus," the interface guide tells developers. In other words, under Android's design philosophy, menus are a natural consequence of complexity—and the more powerful a program, the more likely it is to be stuffed with hidden menus. That's a familiar view of computing, one deeply tied to the interface on the standard PC—after all, every program on your laptop or desktop hides much of its functionality under menus, too.
But that philosophy feels outmoded. We're increasingly abandoning desktop programs for most of our computing needs, and we're replacing them with Web apps or mobile apps that are much more straightforward to use. I rarely reach for menu bars anymore; the programs I use most often these days—Chrome, Gmail, Google Maps, Microsoft Office 2007, and nearly everything on my iPhone—present most of their functions on the main screen.
So come on, Android team— join the menu-free bandwagon! You've got a great OS—with a little work, it could be the best mobile operating system on the market. Wouldn't that be more obvious if you didn't keep everything hidden?
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What do you guys think?
I'll hold my comments/rage in order to start this off objectively...
Basically, he's saying that Android needs to be dumbed down so that, just like the iPhone, it too can be useable by five-year-olds.
No thanks. Having intellectually developed beyond the age of five, I for one am capable of telling four soft buttons apart. A feat one can only expect of mental giants, I know, which I'm sure is asking too much of Apple fansheep.
"You can't assume that users have the time (or can spare the attention) to figure out how your application works. Therefore, you should strive to make your application instantly understandable to users."
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Translation: assume everyone is a retard and develop accordingly. Sweet. Seriously, a more intuitive interface is good, but I feel that Android's plenty intuitive as it is. It just happens to offer more options to the end user (and presumably to developers too), which can't just all be vomited onto the app's main screen. I'll go with a greater range of options and customization over a one-button, idiot-proof UI, please.
grainysand said:
Basically, he's saying that Android needs to be dumbed down so that, just like the iPhone, it too can be useable by five-year-olds.
No thanks. Having intellectually developed beyond the age of five, I for one am capable of telling four soft buttons apart. A feat one can only expect of mental giants, I know, which I'm sure is asking too much of Apple fansheep.
Translation: assume everyone is a retard and develop accordingly. Sweet. Seriously, a more intuitive interface is good, but I feel that Android's plenty intuitive as it is. It just happens to offer more options to the end user (and presumably to developers too), which can't just all be vomited onto the app's main screen. I'll go with a greater range of options and customization over a one-button, idiot-proof UI, please.
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Gotta agree! I read this article last night, and was biting my tongue the whole time. I can't believe the guy had the balls to claim it takes too many key presses to do things on Android compared to the iPhone... Hmmm, lets check that:
He is wrong about making an appointment, in Android you can long press the day and it pops up a short list of options for that day, new event being one of them. I don't see how hard that is, or how it takes too many key presses, and actually it is the same # as the iPhone.
Lets make a phone call... on an iPhone you gotta find the dialer, then search the contact, yada yada yada.... on Android, just tap the contact short cut, or start typing a name in the search bar, or really hard here folks, hold down the search key until voice command turns on, then say "Call John Doe"...
And it goes on and on... Sure, Android has menus giving the user more options, but what is wrong with that? The only thing I agree with is that Android could be a bit prettier, well the 3rd party apps, and it will blow the iPhone out of the water given a little more refinement, especially considering as is it already is better.
pjcforpres said:
He is wrong about making an appointment, in Android you can long press the day and it pops up a short list of options for that day, new event being one of them. I don't see how hard that is, or how it takes too many key presses, and actually it is the same # as the iPhone.
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****, since I use a grid calendar widget, I don't even have to load up the calendar app to add new events. I swipe to the homescreen with said widget, press the desire date and voila: a dialog box pops up for me to enter the event name, more or less like the quick add in the full google calendar.
on Android, just tap the contact short cut, or start typing a name in the search bar, or really hard here folks, hold down the search key until voice command turns on, then say "Call John Doe"...
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iPhone users might finally get contact shortcuts on their homescreen in the next iPhone--after three whole years! Revolutionary really, just like copy-and-paste and sending MMS were.
The essential problem is that Android's interface is much less intuitive than the iPhone's. Much of the OS's functionality is hidden—Android can do a lot, but unlike the iPhone it keeps many of its options stuffed in menu bars.
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What a load of crap. Seriously. Android is much quicker to use than apple's toy, probably the worst thing about the iPhone is that you have to open an app for EVERYTHING, even to read a tiny little SMS that was just sent to you. Opening apps = time, and is not at all as intuitive as having a custom living screen with the information you want displayed on it.
You're 100% right, pjcforpres. Dumbing devices down does not make them better. There are plenty ways to have an intuitive interface without cutting off options. I'd say the only thing really missing in android at the moment is not a dumb-phone-like drilling of limited options on the main screen, but a dumb-phone-like music player, or at least one with a simple five-band eq... I hope google don't take notice of idiots like the one who wrote that article and work on ADDING functionality to our devices, rather than taking it away.
First he was wrong on two points forgot what they were ((read this yesterday)).
Its amazing how only iphone people want there UI to be simpler. Hitting a Fn menu key is destroying the experience for you ?
Secondly
because many of its functions are hidden in a list of options that require you to hit an additional button first—the phone's universal Menu button,
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How the hell is "MENU" something hidden.
His knock is a major plus in UI developing. When you can have a single dedicated button to sub menu options it makes UI creation ALOT easier. Your app will have more real estate to display relevant info and your interface will be less cluttered because of it.
From an OS standpoint the Menu button provides uniformity the Apple OS lacks. Every apps sub menus can be reached by the same button. Iphone the menus and options are often all over the place on apps.
N1 interface took a major leap forward IMO. The news genie app is a prototype to how simple and extremly functional an App can be.
What Android needs is better visual designers. They suck. Almost by default Iapps will have better visual appeal because many of the best graphic designers are already in the Apple ecosystem. They have a better talent pool.
Most apps on Android have the visuals seem almost like an afterthought. Heck even on XDA all the tons of useful apps that people have come up with few if any are actually visually well done. ((PURE apps being one of them)) and frankly even those are barely cracking "good" looking.
The fact they went to cooliris for the gallery , and rumored to be working with coreplayer guys for media player. At least makes me think Google acknowledge there visual appeal shortcomings.
Bottom line Iphone is Mcdonalds , Android is a nice restaurant.
Crying out for in your face menus and narrowed options makes me think you should just get up and go to the fastfood joint down the street.
To be fair this guy is just like me, a clearly longer term iPhone user who when faced with the differences is struggling. In the calendar app for example, yes you have to press an extra button, but in return you get more on the screen, a decent trade off in my opinion (as basically an iPhone fanboy).
It comes down to preference, and to be fair to the guy, he does say that if he had to get rid of the iPhone the N1 would be his pick.
I am trying to hold back on comments while I try to get to grips with Android after a good year plus on the iPhone, and today I used the N1 exclusively, left the 3GS at home.
What I found is that voice dialing is not as good as 3GS version, unless I am doing something wrong which is quite possible, and don't underestimate how useful Universal Search is on iPhone. From the First Home screen, (never more that 2 keypresses away), a single press always give a search function, which allows you to type anything and the list narrows down with each letter. It can be set to search in as many or as few catagories as you want, and in most cases you find what you need within a few letters.
When I saw the tittle of this post, I assumed this was the one thing he was talking about.
grainysand is right about one thing, Apple do take their sweet time to add stuff, but when they do, i.e Cut and Paste and Universal Search, it is class leading.
Kev
Kev
jay_zhead said:
even to read a tiny little SMS that was just sent to you.
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Now come on, if you are gonna pick on something, surely not this?
I have both phones here, so, I sent an SMS from my 3GS to my Nexus One, and made sure the screen was off. OK, so I get the noise and the flashing trackball. The screen does not come on. To read the message I have to Slide the lock over, and then I have to sweep the notifications bar down, and then I can see what the message is.
So I sent an SMS back to my 3GS from the N1, again, I made sure the iPhone screen was off.
I got my alert, it automatically turns my screen on, and the SMS is right there, on the screen, I do not have to OPEN anything at all. If I was away from my 3GS at the time, the message would still be right there when I next turn it on.
So, completely the opposite to what you are claiming. Wanna try again?
Kev
kevwright said:
To be fair this guy is just like me, a clearly longer term iPhone user who when faced with the differences is struggling. In the calendar app for example, yes you have to press an extra button, but in return you get more on the screen, a decent trade off in my opinion (as basically an iPhone fanboy).
It comes down to preference, and to be fair to the guy, he does say that if he had to get rid of the iPhone the N1 would be his pick.
I am trying to hold back on comments while I try to get to grips with Android after a good year plus on the iPhone, and today I used the N1 exclusively, left the 3GS at home.
What I found is that voice dialing is not as good as 3GS version, unless I am doing something wrong which is quite possible, and don't underestimate how useful Universal Search is on iPhone. From the First Home screen, (never more that 2 keypresses away), a single press always give a search function, which allows you to type anything and the list narrows down with each letter. It can be set to search in as many or as few catagories as you want, and in most cases you find what you need within a few letters.
When I saw the tittle of this post, I assumed this was the one thing he was talking about.
grainysand is right about one thing, Apple do take their sweet time to add stuff, but when they do, i.e Cut and Paste and Universal Search, it is class leading.
Kev
Kev
Click to expand...
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My problem is that there seems to be know comprehension of what a learning curve is.
Going form a nintendo wii to an xbox 360 is going to be daunting the first few days/weeks...why ? because you can do more. The less you can do the easier you can make things.
You seem to have a grasp of this curve..the writer and many others dont.
My issue is that these guys write blogs posts etc that may get Googles attention. Thus Google starts paying attention to things it doesnt need to change and takes attention from what DOES need changing.
As for you specifically Im glad youre giving it a shot and hope you enjoy it..
The universal search can be customized in the settings menu contacts/apps/songs/web even specific to certain apps.....
It can also be activated with one touch ((magnifying glass button on lower right))
Tap once for quick search , long press for voice search.
I think his whole reasoning just points out how GOOD the menu button is.
When he talks about having ALL of the buttons you need on the screen it just points out that you can have much MORE options with a menu button, the opposite to what he says. Also, when you put ALL of the buttons you need on the screen, you immediately lose a third of the screen.
To search for an address in the iPhone's map program, you click the search bar at the top of your screen; to do the same thing in Android's map program, you hit Menu first, then Search. To load a bookmarked Web page in the iPhone's browser, you hit the bookmark icon.
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erm, no thanks. When I open my maps application I don't want to see a thousand options and a huge search bar, I want to see the MAP.
To do so in Android, you've got to—you guessed it—hit Menu first, then Bookmark.
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Wrong again... just press the search button. I know 4 buttons gets complicated for the long time iPhone users but even my 4 year old niece can use my sister's G1. (she plays coloroid; opens it herself too).
Edit: I read a post somewhere from an iPhone user using the nexus one saying he couldn't figure out which button to use to complete a task, he found it confusing... What has Jobs done ¬¬
kevwright said:
I got my alert, it automatically turns my screen on, and the SMS is right there, on the screen, I do not have to OPEN anything at all. If I was away from my 3GS at the time, the message would still be right there when I next turn it on.
Click to expand...
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Handcent sms allows you to customize this. You can make your screen turn on and pop up appear , or just in the notification bar.
kevwright said:
grainysand is right about one thing, Apple do take their sweet time to add stuff, but when they do, i.e Cut and Paste and Universal Search, it is class leading.
Kev
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The thing, though, is that such things should have been there from the start. Apple's the king of limiting functions, so that when they finally release basic crap that should never have been left out in later versions, people will cough up money for it and dance for joy--whereas anyone sane would have been fed up with that lack in the first place and ditched Apple a long time ago. Everyone is trying to maximize profits, obviously, but none does it so brazenly and shamelessly as Apple. Their products aren't tools that function. They are status symbols, mostly informing the world that you have more money than sense (or have no understanding of finance management--I've seen tech-illiterate people who aren't exactly loaded go for a Mac because they buy into the advertising campaigns and that "it just works" bull, even though buying a Windows PC with equivalent/better hardware will cost them half the money).
Heck, the iPhone 3GS is still more expensive than an N1 even though it's running on horrifyingly outdated hardware.
I think everyone -who chose a phone with android OS- has enough IQ to hit the menu button for executing off-screen functions. Android offers more than it can show, you can't force-fit everything on the screen.
grainysand said:
Basically, he's saying that Android needs to be dumbed down so that, just like the iPhone, it too can be useable by five-year-olds.
No thanks. Having intellectually developed beyond the age of five, I for one am capable of telling four soft buttons apart. A feat one can only expect of mental giants, I know, which I'm sure is asking too much of Apple fansheep.
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Click to collapse
I don't disagree that the menu button is an easy, and intuitive way to use the OS. I also feel it's a benefit because it reduces clutter on the screen. I am able to have the full view of Google Maps at once, as opposed to it being partially covered with a search menu always on the screen.
That being said, your reaction to his comments are indicative of one issue with Android. You're calling people who use iPhones retarded 5 year olds, and you, as a brilliant geek savant, are too elite and exclusive to appeal to the lowly iPhone users. Unfortunately for you, in order for Android to become a successful operating system, it needs to appeal to all walks of life, and make the experience as easy as possible.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it. More and more people are using Macs, because they feel Macs are easier to use than PC's. The entire reason Linux hasn't taken off as a main stream OS, aside from a lack of push from any one source, is because it's one of the most confusing programs ever created.
Google should do everything it can to make Android as easy and intuitive to use for consumers of all walks of life. If they don't, Android will never succeed, and it will just become a niche OS for geeks just like Linux is.
Unfortunately, just taking this step isn't everything that's needed to make Android successful.
Side note: The author should point out you can long press almost anything in Android to get a menu of options without hitting the menu soft button. That's very intuitive.
xManMythLegend said:
Handcent sms allows you to customize this. You can make your screen turn on and pop up appear , or just in the notification bar.
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Sure thing, I totally appreciate your can change it for Android, just pointing out a frustration of people slagging the iPhone for not having something which is so clearly does have.
I have both an iPhone and the Nexus One, and I feel that a huge number of iPhone haters on here have never ever used one.
Kev
xSiraris said:
You're calling people who use iPhones retarded 5 year olds, and you, as a brilliant geek savant, are too elite and exclusive to appeal to the lowly iPhone users.
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On the contrary; the brilliant geek savants are the people who develop and mess with the code. I'm a peon much like anyone else, but you don't need to be a brilliant savant to understand, utilize, and distinguish four buttons. The iPhone OS is useable by toddlers--literally--which is fantastic for toddlers, but it also means you can't do jack-squat with it. Why should everyone be forced to the same level of non-customizable, closed, boring UI? Android's appeal is its options.
Unfortunately for you, in order for Android to become a successful operating system, it needs to appeal to all walks of life, and make the experience as easy as possible.
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At which point do you stop? Does Android need to cater to the lowest common denominator, or does it merely need to gain enough market-share or mindshare to have staying power? Beyond a certain point, you get dumbed-down garbage with no options for anyone: hence non-JB iPhone homescreens all looking identical (and even with themes/backgrounds, they still look essentially the same). If Android's dumbed down to the level where it'll no longer "scare" away people with attention span so short and intellect so limited they can't do anything but interact with a one-button device, where does that leave people who are fine with being able to customize their homescreens how they like, install whatever app they like, and enjoy the extra screen real estate thanks to the presence of buttons?
FYI, my mother's computer-illiterate. She tried my N1 and found it incredibly intuitive. So which breed of utterly, absolutely hopeless morons exactly find Android too complicated to use? Apart from the tool that wrote this article, I mean.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it. More and more people are using Macs, because they feel Macs are easier to use than PC's.
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Fantastic. They deserve to pay Apple's stupidity tax.
kevwright said:
I have both an iPhone and the Nexus One, and I feel that a huge number of iPhone haters on here have never ever used one.
Kev
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What a coincidence, because most Apple fanboys have never used anything but Macs and iPhones, but that doesn't stop them from showing up to troll Windows/Android users: anything from "Windows blue-screens five times a day and you need to format a Windows PC every week" or "I used to use Windows but, being retarded beyond belief, got it infected with fifty varieties of malware within five minutes of Internet use. MICROSOFT SUCKS." Not speaking of you specifically (although, haha), but just take a look at any popular tech blog. For every sensible Apple user, you will get twelve more singing panegyrics to the might of Steve Jobs and how Apple devices are the best ever and will never, ever lose their dominance. Uh, apart from the fact that they still don't have a majority market share in the PC sector, but you know. Facts and logic don't feature in fanboy-vision.
xSiraris said:
I don't disagree that the menu button is an easy, and intuitive way to use the OS. I also feel it's a benefit because it reduces clutter on the screen. I am able to have the full view of Google Maps at once, as opposed to it being partially covered with a search menu always on the screen.
That being said, your reaction to his comments are indicative of one issue with Android. You're calling people who use iPhones retarded 5 year olds, and you, as a brilliant geek savant, are too elite and exclusive to appeal to the lowly iPhone users. Unfortunately for you, in order for Android to become a successful operating system, it needs to appeal to all walks of life, and make the experience as easy as possible.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it. More and more people are using Macs, because they feel Macs are easier to use than PC's. The entire reason Linux hasn't taken off as a main stream OS, aside from a lack of push from any one source, is because it's one of the most confusing programs ever created.
Google should do everything it can to make Android as easy and intuitive to use for consumers of all walks of life. If they don't, Android will never succeed, and it will just become a niche OS for geeks just like Linux is.
Unfortunately, just taking this step isn't everything that's needed to make Android successful.
Side note: The author should point out you can long press almost anything in Android to get a menu of options without hitting the menu soft button. That's very intuitive.
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Im sorry but if a person cant spend a few minutes to learn a phone , or the Android OS is too complicated perhaps a smartphone isnt the right purchase.
Its a basic philosophical difference. Android can be retard simple. It just wont be able to do anything. It cant read ones mind. (yet). So long as there is choice there will be options and a learning curve.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it.
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Its 2010. If people are afraid of computers theyre in for a complicated frustrating existence.((OR a really easy one ))
The reason Macs are gaining popularity ((as if a 1-2% growth in a 20 year old market is anything to brag about)) is because of PERCEIVED ease.
I cant fathom what kind of human being wouldnt be able to turn on a PC and check there email , play there music , or look at photos.
I have 6 yr old nephews , 43 yr old super computer boob parents , and elderly family members readily and easily using PCs.
The dumbing down of technology to the lowest common denominator is not a good thing.
Fact of the matter is at the end of the day its all about $$$$$
We can argue till the cows come home but at the end of the day theres simply no way for people to know what to do or what they can do on there new phone without someone showing them or them having seen a million commercials showing them what can be done.
THATS why iPhone is so successful $$$$ advertising , plugging your device into peoples heads via tv and print ads.
The Android OS needs to pretty itself up a bit more. But face it VZ proved what a few ads can do for a phone reputation and sales.
grainysand said:
The thing, though, is that such things should have been there from the start.
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Sure they should, I had the original iPhone and hated it, sold it right away.
Then I got the 3G and it was OK, but still not really great.
The 3GS however is just a different tool, it really is. The speed of changing apps, and the ease with which devs seem to have mastered the resume functions really do mitigate the lack of Multitasking in an stock 3GS.
But how about this. Have we all forgotten what phones were about in 2007 when the original iPhone launched? Apart from the Nokia N95 8GB, there were some real stinkers back then.
Also, what do you think about the updates that Apple do deliver? There are not many companies that deliver updates that completely change the experience, and you do not have to upgrade hardware to benefit. Look at Android, only lately have we seen a real effort to update the OS, I think the Hero in the UK still comes with 1.5
grainysand said:
Heck, the iPhone 3GS is still more expensive than an N1 even though it's running on horrifyingly outdated hardware.
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In the UK they are around that same price. a 16GB 3GS is now £449 without a contract, and £10 more to unlock it. If you are prepared to run it on our O2 network for the first year, the buying price of £449 includes unlimited (real not capped) data on both 3G and wi-fi for the 12 months. O2 is an OK network, I would say much better than AT&T from what I read.
The N1 I just bought was £430 with VAT, and a 16GB memory card is about £30, so a very similar price. I don't think there is anyway you can say 3GS is outdated, after all, how many decent 3D games and FPS do you see on Android?
Please note I do not play games, so don't care about it, just pointing out that the 3GS hardware is not that far behind the N1
Kev
This pisses me off every time I hear "not as intuitive as the iphone."
Intuitive? It's a screen with a bunch of ICONS. It's like having your desktop screen on your computer covered with icons.
And it can't multi-task so how is it easier to do stuff?
The only reason I liked my 3gs was because I had backgrounder + proswitcher (or kirikae) and widgets on my lockscreen and homescreen.
But it was a ***** to set-up the widgets with all the iblanks I had to do.
The Iphone is NOT intuitive, it's just simple. Freaking apple fanboys. *ROAR!*
I'm not going to argue with people who refuse to see another perspective, in particular because they believe anyone who doesn't agree with their perspective is some sort of lesser human being.
I guess the only thing I'd point out is that Apple has sold over 40 million iPhones to date. Android has sold maybe 3-4 million.
ok, i'm tired of seeing all of these threads about how much the nexus sucks or there's blah blah blah issue with it. listen, if you own this phone, you own the top piece of tech on the globe.
the g1 forum was never like this (and apparently they're ****ed cause they will never see a 2.x officially, so they actually have a reason to ***** but they don't), so what is the issue? there are threads saying the droid incredible is the nexus killer.. yea right. if i decided to travel the world, my nexus one will support that. if i decided to make a call in a freakin lambo at 120 miles per hour with the top down, my nexus one will support that. if i wanted to have the first cell phone in the world that actually has flash, my nexus one will support that. the droid incredible wasn't even rooted yet, and the situation is looking pretty grim. the iphone, wow, i shouldn't even waste my time talking about that piece of garbage. anyone that uses that crap, i look at them in disgrace and shame. sorry, i don't want something so basic that my grandmom can even use it.
so my point is, if you want a real phone, then get a nexus one. if you already own one and like it, my respect goes to you. if not, please don't waste space on this forum and find a phone that better suit your needs.
I have a couple of theories as to why there's a lot more... scrutiny here than in other forums. Most G1 users were able to buy their phones under contract, and as such the proverbial stakes may be lower because they didn't pay as much as N1 owners who probably paid full price (like myself).
The bigger theory, though, is that Google trumped this phone up to be the first 'super phone'. There's nothing super about not being able to handle more than 2 touch inputs, making gaming a hard task. There's nothing super about the GPU, or the jittery scrolling in some websites and on the home screen.
When you say a phone has a 1ghz processor in it, and you claim it to be a superphone, you don't expect to run into performance issues. I know I sure didn't. I've since grounded myself to the realities of hype and marketing, but it still gets under my skin that I'm still playing the same 'upgrade every other day to try to get the phone to actually be what I bought it for' game I've done with past Windows Mobile devices.
All in all I like my N1 a lot. I think it's one of the best phones out right now, and will be for some time to come, but they could have saved themselves a lot of grief by coming up with a better touch screen sensor. You just don't take shortcuts with a 'superphone'.
Purchasing an amazing smartphone like the N1 and b*itching about an annoyance is like getting married and getting pissed when your wife leaves crumbs on the counter or doesn't tuck in the sheets: grow up, get over it, and start appreciating it for all the great things that it does for you.
And please... dont use the excuse "but but... I paid $500 for my phone so I expect it to be be perfect and not have anything wrong with it". This is a idiotic since nothing is perfect (even the EVO 4g will have something wrong with it). Try telling this stupid argument to your future wife and see what happens "Honey... I spent $500 on you so I want you to be perfect and not have any quirks".
The N1 is amazing for me. So much that I can see myself using it beyond 2 years. It fulfills every single one of my needs. After years of searching I have finally found my "perfect" phone. Its that good.
I appreciate the sentiment, ap. For the most part I agree, but every person has different needs. One of the big things I use my phone for is gaming when I ride the metro to work. I also work on my book with my phone when I commute to work.
Imagine my surprise when I buy SuperGNES and realize I can't use the gamepad as advertised because the betweens are 15mm within the same axis so I couldn't do a running jump in Super Mario World. Yet my girlfriend can do this fine on her 2 year old iPhone 3G. And I have the superphone.
Or picture the look on my face when try to type really fast on the Android keyboard as I work on my book but letters don't register that did on the iPhone I used to have. I could hold down one key, and press another and not have the first one register on the N1, my superphone. This isn't a HTC Touch Cruise I'm using.
If I go to www.textsfromlastnight.com, the scrolling is choppy and not aesthetically pleasing. I hate to use the iPhone again, but the scrolling on that is fine. Websites seemingly at random do not perform well on the N1, my superphone.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do like my phone. But some of its shortcomings are not ones I'd expect, given the hardware specifications. I also did not expect Google to skimp on the touchscreen sensor on its flagship device.
If your phone does everything you want it to do, then that's great, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone can say that, though, and that's criticism I feel Google exposed itself to by calling the N1 a superphone, a class that's supposed to be above everything that came before it.
halorin said:
I appreciate the sentiment, ap. For the most part I agree, but every person has different needs. One of the big things I use my phone for is gaming when I ride the metro to work. I also work on my book with my phone when I commute to work.
Imagine my surprise when I buy SuperGNES and realize I can't use the gamepad as advertised because the betweens are 15mm within the same axis so I couldn't do a running jump in Super Mario World. Yet my girlfriend can do this fine on her 2 year old iPhone 3G. And I have the superphone.
Or picture the look on my face when try to type really fast on the Android keyboard as I work on my book but letters don't register that did on the iPhone I used to have. I could hold down one key, and press another and not have the first one register on the N1, my superphone. This isn't a HTC Touch Cruise I'm using.
If I go to www.textsfromlastnight.com, the scrolling is choppy and not aesthetically pleasing. I hate to use the iPhone again, but the scrolling on that is fine. Websites seemingly at random do not perform well on the N1, my superphone.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do like my phone. But some of its shortcomings are not ones I'd expect, given the hardware specifications. I also did not expect Google to skimp on the touchscreen sensor on its flagship device.
If your phone does everything you want it to do, then that's great, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone can say that, though, and that's criticism I feel Google exposed itself to by calling the N1 a superphone, a class that's supposed to be above everything that came before it.
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Click to collapse
Interesting points made about some of the short comings of the N1. Coming from a BlackBerry Pearl 8120 to this phone is quite a step up. It is hard for me to find negatives with the phone, besides being spoiled by the BB battery life of 2-3 days with moderate use compared to the N1 ~24hrs.
I am not sure about your experience while typing. I installed Swype and find it easier and faster to type e-mails and forum posts, and SMS compared to a physical keyboard and the default keyboard on the N1.
Coming from most phones the N1 will be a HUGE step up, and rightfully so. I'd say that the N1 is about 90% of what I thought it would be, which in its own right is pretty damn goood.
The keyboard issue I'm talking about refers to the current limitation where if you press more than one spot on the same axis within about 15 mm the input will flatten to one. There's something called multitouch visualizer on the market that shows this. It's the same hinderance that makes same axis multitouch on games not work well. Using Swype will make this a non-issue, I would imagine since it's just the one touch sliding around.
Android 2.2 is rumored to fix some of this, but it's a head scratcher that Google would use such a low-end touch screen on their breakout device.
halorin said:
Coming from most phones the N1 will be a HUGE step up, and rightfully so. I'd say that the N1 is about 90% of what I thought it would be, which in its own right is pretty damn goood.
The keyboard issue I'm talking about refers to the current limitation where if you press more than one spot on the same axis within about 15 mm the input will flatten to one. There's something called multitouch visualizer on the market that shows this. It's the same hinderance that makes same axis multitouch on games not work well. Using Swype will make this a non-issue, I would imagine since it's just the one touch sliding around.
Android 2.2 is rumored to fix some of this, but it's a head scratcher that Google would use such a low-end touch screen on their breakout device.
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Click to collapse
The N1 is new to me in a lot of aspects. This is my first touch screen phone, first Android phone, first phone that supports 3G/HSPDA, first with GPS support.
Hmm, I'll have to find that app regarding the sensor in the marketplace; read about it before in other threads.
2.2 should be coming out this month or next month? I'm assuming N1 would be on top of the list to get the update and I think the new myTouch 3G 3rd gen is getting it too?
It's a shame that the Nexus One got stuck with the clearpad touchscreen, but it's a relatively low volume phone and HTC probably either had enough stock or an existing contract with a supplier that lined up well with their projected sales numbers. I'm sure the designers would have loved to have used a better part, but typically the bean counters are the ones that get to make those decisions.
To my understanding, 2.2 should be out sometime next month. Keep in mind that I am no way trying to bash the Nexus One. I'm just objective about it. All in all it's an amazing phone. It's arguably pound for pound the best phone out, and it's certainly the best one I've ever owned.
It's just not a 'superphone'. Not to me, for the reasons I stated above; reasons I feel are valid.
halorin said:
To my understanding, 2.2 should be out sometime next month. Keep in mind that I am no way trying to bash the Nexus One. I'm just objective about it. All in all it's an amazing phone. It's arguably pound for pound the best phone out, and it's certainly the best one I've ever owned.
It's just not a 'superphone'. Not to me, for the reasons I stated above; reasons I feel are valid.
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Hah, I know you're not bashing the phone Just picking out somethings that stuck out that is either a flaw or we prefer something else.
Be interesting to see what is included in 2.2 that might be derived from CM5.0.6
Well, there are a few things already in ROMs that are supposed to be in 2.2, namely the trackball color change business. I want to say some of the OpenGL upgrades are already floating around, but I may be wrong on that. I hope I am. There's always talk of JIT compiling, a concept I don't know a lot about other than it's a different way for the processor to handle stuff that's supposed to be faster. I hope/think that's in 2.2.
The biggest concern for me is (shocker) the supposed multitouch changes.
While i do love the phone and it is a sexy piece of hardware... i am still bitter about the quality of the touch screen...
the fact that i cannot really play games because the multi-touch is kind messed up is a real downer for me... i really hope this issue gets somewhat fixed in the froyo update but i do not have my hopes up... emulators and stuff was something i was really looking forward to on my phone but the touch screen sort of put the nix on that....
t0mmy said:
ok, i'm tired of seeing all of these threads about how much the nexus sucks or there's blah blah blah issue with it. listen, if you own this phone, you own the top piece of tech on the globe.
the g1 forum was never like this (and apparently they're ****ed cause they will never see a 2.x officially, so they actually have a reason to ***** but they don't), so what is the issue? there are threads saying the droid incredible is the nexus killer.. yea right. if i decided to travel the world, my nexus one will support that. if i decided to make a call in a freakin lambo at 120 miles per hour with the top down, my nexus one will support that. if i wanted to have the first cell phone in the world that actually has flash, my nexus one will support that. the droid incredible wasn't even rooted yet, and the situation is looking pretty grim. the iphone, wow, i shouldn't even waste my time talking about that piece of garbage. anyone that uses that crap, i look at them in disgrace and shame. sorry, i don't want something so basic that my grandmom can even use it.
so my point is, if you want a real phone, then get a nexus one. if you already own one and like it, my respect goes to you. if not, please don't waste space on this forum and find a phone that better suit your needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are my hero.
Agree completely. People need to slap themselves real hard and remind themselves what kind of piece of technology they own. STOP *****ing. Christ, N1 forum is becoming a collection of spoiled crybabies.
Wake up!
JHaste said:
While i do love the phone and it is a sexy piece of hardware... i am still bitter about the quality of the touch screen...
the fact that i cannot really play games because the multi-touch is kind messed up is a real downer for me... i really hope this issue gets somewhat fixed in the froyo update but i do not have my hopes up... emulators and stuff was something i was really looking forward to on my phone but the touch screen sort of put the nix on that....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can play SuperGNES in landscape with the d-pad and the buttons at diagonally opposite corners and play pretty much without issues. I'm able to do running jumps in Super Mario World. I don't know why SuperGNES and Snesoid both do not have LR button capabilities, but I'm no designer. I haven't tried other emulators.
DarkDvr said:
You are my hero.
Agree completely. People need to slap themselves real hard and remind themselves what kind of piece of technology they own. STOP *****ing. Christ, N1 forum is becoming a collection of spoiled crybabies.
Wake up!
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Click to collapse
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
halorin said:
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
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+1 agree with this
halorin said:
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is everyone so fixed on the multi-touch? Seriously. Let's face the facts for a second. Besides playing console-ported games with 2 controls on left and right of the screen, there is no other place where you need that.
Fact: pinch-to-zoom works flawlessly (as in "without any issues") everywhere you need it - maps, browser, gallery. If it doesn't for you - talk to your doctor about fixing your hand coordination. Where else do you need multitouch in the real world? Nowhere.
Besides, we need to stop being hipocritical. We found ONE problem with Nexus that still remains and we freak out. I cannot even start listing the difficiences of other "SUPERPHONES" like iPhone. They can't do **** in comparison. Yet I don't see so much hate and dissapointment over their devices as we have here. Think about it. Apple fanboys are actually less hipocritical about their devices, albeit somewhat ignorant. Yet they can appreciate their devices and value them for things they can do, and we, informed and educated, hate our devices (far more advanced) for tiny flaws. So who's better off here?
The reason for my rant is for us to face the facts and be just. No device is perfect, humans created it, and we are not perfect. Everything has flaws. You cannot focus on one _insignificant_ flaw and forgo all the good stuff. People would never marry if that were the case =) Look at the whole picture, value something (or someone) for it's good qualities, don't hate it for the flaws.
halorin said:
You can play SuperGNES in landscape with the d-pad and the buttons at diagonally opposite corners and play pretty much without issues. I'm able to do running jumps in Super Mario World. I don't know why SuperGNES and Snesoid both do not have LR button capabilities, but I'm no designer. I haven't tried other emulators.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you CAN play NES emulators with no problem. i thought i read that you cant do this because of the stupid touch screen limitation. damn false info.
halorin said:
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. You need to slap yourself.
If you don't think the phone is a good value, sell it on Ebay. You'll get the bulk of your money back and you can go whine about your expectations about your new phone elsewhere. *****ing about what it isn't/doesn't have is pointless.
DarkDvr said:
Why is everyone so fixed on the multi-touch? Seriously. Let's face the facts for a second. Besides playing console-ported games with 2 controls on left and right of the screen, there is no other place where you need that.
Fact: pinch-to-zoom works flawlessly (as in "without any issues") everywhere you need it - maps, browser, gallery. If it doesn't for you - talk to your doctor about fixing your hand coordination. Where else do you need multitouch in the real world? Nowhere.
Besides, we need to stop being hipocritical. We found ONE problem with Nexus that still remains and we freak out. I cannot even start listing the difficiences of other "SUPERPHONES" like iPhone. They can't do **** in comparison.
The reason for my rant is for us to face the facts and be just. No device is perfect, humans created it, and we are not perfect. Everything has flaws. You cannot focus on one _insignificant_ flaw and forgo all the good stuff. People would never marry if that were the case =) Look at the whole picture, value something (or someone) for it's good qualities, don't hate it for the flaws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are undervaluing the intentions people have for their phones simply because they aren't yours. While I may not be as fanatical as some others have been, I'm going to take notice of the idea that my two year old iPhone 3G does something better than my new Nexus One because someone between HTC and Google decided that the touchpad sensor they chose was enough.
If the flaws of the phone were enough of a problem for me, I'd sell it on Craigslist and get something else. Just because they aren't that glaring for me doesn't mean I'm going to be ignorant of them, though.
Also, it's been well documented that the touch sensor on the N1 can misbehave in a variety of cases, even with just one touch. I've personally experienced this. Touches refuse to accurately register until you turn off the screen and turn it back on sometimes. Play around with the multitouch application for a while and you more than likely will see some anomalies.
I think I stand somewhere in the middle of 'This phone is perfect, why complainomg' and 'This phone is broken and flawedomg'.
It's hard to make the argument you're trying to make about no phone being perfect when phones like the Evo 4G and the Droid Incredible are basically the same phone except they didn't get cheap touch sensors. I'd wager to guess they'll be around the same price as the N1 as well, if not cheaper also.
I'll agree that some people take their complaints too far, but you almost make it sound like people should have nothing to complain about at all, which I disagree with.
I think it would be worth starting a thread for app requests - galaxy note specific.
This will help give ideas to developers.
Two things I want that haven't seen yet:
1) A keyboard that is exactly the same size as their current phone, but in the (selectable) bottom left/right corner of the screen. (and blank space on the other side). This would allow them to type with one hand with (almost) the same ease as their current phone.
2) I would like a scrollable s-pad. Not linking pages together, but one big scrollable sheet of paper, so you can draw one huge diagram/chart and then print out the whole thing in one go.
- Frank
I would like the same thing as on ChodTheWacko's second point.
I want the writable area to correspond to at least the size of an A4, maybe selectable?
Another thing in the same app perhaps that would be nice, but not always very good is a to have an area to scribble on that expands as you need it and can be very large. I'm thinking it's good while making mindmaps and other stuff.
yeah I agree with the guy above, I suppose if the native documents app could have add-ons to see whole A4 page that would be cool, but I still imagine zooming will be essential when you need to write on them. I noticed somewhere they have editable features with the native apps, whether that means typing or writing, I don't know, but I saw somewhere something called ipdf annotator is coming with it.
This would be really good for word documents or even just writing on a portfolio of jpeg formats because it might be easier to convert all your pdfs to jpeg first, then into word which is what I've been doing of recently.
I'm very excited about this device and have been kicking myself at android devices not having stylus precision like this, having spent thousands of pounds on mobiles only to sell them off looking for alternatives to android and apple iphones, samsung have dont it. Most noticiably so when steve jobs has passed away they take on a world tour with their ammassed research budget, I don't see the problem with that.
And finally I can contribute to xda with native android app without kicking myself further with the hd2. I used to think what is a phone without a hard key for hanging up, but this stylus ,makes me think im a hardman.
I wish microsoft release onenote for android...
For the time being mobilenoter is the resort.
I have read several articles about "junk", bad video, and what ever, complaints about the Iconia, and decided to add my 2 cents worth.
I have been personal computing since the early 1980s. I was on the internet before the world wide web, and started using the www when command prompts were the norm and things like gopher were being used. I've used every version of msdos and all versions of windows except 8.
I have two desktops, one portable, one netbook, and the Iconia. Which computer do I use the most. The simple answer is the A500. The more complex is the one that best suits the job I have to do. If I'm doing photo or video work it's my best desktop, at the moment it's my portable. If I were not typing it would probably be the a500. The real point is I don't use my tablet for something it was not designed to do.
The other side of my computing experience has been the small computer. I don't remember which came first, the Springboard,Palm variant, or the Microsoft with and early version of a portable widows. It seems like a long time ago but I bought the Springboard in 2001 and It cost more than the A500. The Microsoft machine had a wider screen which was great, but the screen was almost unreadable. Both used a stylus and phone modems. I always wanted a good book reader. Neither worked that well. The small amount of material on screen means a lot of page turning and page turning delays just disrupts the flow of reading. I also had a sony reader that used disks. In good light reading was okay, but disk access and page turning was terrible, and sony did not support it for very long. Microsoft didn't support their computer either.
Next came the Itouch. Back light and color WOW. It also had WIFI and a web browser. I used it a lot, and my wife loves to play angry birds on it. This was my first real experience with ITunes and Apple. I did not like the way Apple ties you down to their way and I do not own a piece of software that gets updated as much a Itunes does. In fact I just got another update notice while typing in this post. I would not have it on the computer if it were not fore the Itouch. Reading with the Itouch was a far better experience than anything else I've used but page turning so often still is a hassle.
Then came BN and the nook with color touch area at the bottom. Now reading was an all together new experience and the size is great. But, I happened to be in my local BN and someone had not bought their pre order Nook Color. I jumped and have had it over a year now. Biggest problem, BN throttled the NC down worse than apple. I rooted as soon as It came available. A rooted nook color has been the very best at what I wanted in a small computer. I soon learned that the color screen did not bother my reading, and I could go browsing when ever I wanted, plus Overdrive a library loan application worked as well. I could download both audio and epub books from my local library. No need for BN at all.
Audio playback is not great and sound volume sucks. I had to use earphones to listen to anything. So what is my book reader, book playback, browser now? My Acer Iconia.
My most used computer for almost everything I like to do on the computer is my Iconia. And it does these thing very well. A much bigger screen for browsing. The sound is good and volume is high enough not to have to use earphones all the time. Screen data is almost too much for my normal reading, but with apps like Cool Reader I can set up the reader just like I want it, down to the ability to set touch zones just the way I want them. The Acer book reader Lumaread is better than most.
The Acer is somewhat tied down but not bad enough for me to bother rooting, and I have found plenty of good apps from market for my needs. I don't know if I'll root or not.
I don't know, at this point, if I were standing at Best Buy with $700 that this is the tablet I would buy. I got a deal from my daughter when she found out I was looking for a tablet and she was not happy with the tablet, because she social networks a lot and likes to have a keyboard. The point is that the acer is half this not existent $700. I would do just about anything not to buy an Apple and the remaining options are not that many.
My first problem was the wt. I lay in bed and read and like to move around and keep reading. Kind of paperback mode. The slippery skin and shape is not that great for my way reading. It is heavier than some of the tablets but only 1/3 lb. more than the Ipad2, and less than others.
It has a good selection of ports. The full usb lets me use usb mem and I have a 80 gig batt. operated hard drive that works just fine. Fat 32 format. USB keyboard and mouse works. The mouse driver is new to honeycomb.
I had a little trouble getting a HDMI cord but got one for 12 bucks from fry's and the picture looks great on my tv. I don't understand the video complaints. Netflix works great and looks just fine to me. As I understand it, this was an early complaint in reviews and was fixed with honycomb updates. On early review said angry birds was jumpy, but I don't see it and I think that is also due to honeycomb updates. Outside in the sun the display is not very good but is fine in my car with tinted windows. I don't know why there is not more manual control for the screen. Contrast control would be great. I don't know if this is a problem with acer or android.
Battery times are not that big of issue for me. I always travel with inverter and can charge it up at anytime. Even though the volatage is 12v the plug seem to be smaller than standard plugs and I have not found one that works.
I rotate browsers but the standard browser works fine and sometimes works when others don't seem to want to display a page correctly.
I believe it has all the normal sensors and gps seems to work fine.
I have not had any wifi problems. I have not traveled that much with it yet so I don't know about starbucks and Mac, but I expect those will work fine.
I have three acer computers. Portable, netbook, and know tablet and they all work fine.
So the Iconia has met my needs in the middle. I think I prefer the NC size for book reading. And I sort of regret trading it to my daughter, but all in all I'm very happy with A500 and I don't regret getting it. What about that $700, well I just might walk out with Acer anyway and get a several new tools in the process.
Woody
Damn Dude, that's more like a buck and a half's worth, instead of 2 cents.
Walls of text are never pleasant to read, next time break it up into smaller, coherent parts.
Loved your review. Love my A500.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
WereCatf said:
Walls of text are never pleasant to read, next time break it up into smaller, coherent parts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't read it then.
Sent from my A100 using xda premium
qhinton said:
Don't read it then.
Sent from my A100 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Doubt they did, most people don't complain about length and read it. He did have paragraphs, that breaks it up. but it was old school
qhinton said:
Don't read it then.
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I skimmed through it. But my comment was merely provided as constructive criticism to him should he decide to write as much again sometime in the future, not as an insult: it'll be more pleasant for people to read if it's broken up in smaller, coherent pieces and the author doesn't just jump from one thing to the next like he had ADHD.
Being able to accept constructive criticism and improve yourself and/or your behaviour based on that is a terribly useful and positive trait and can even make or break you getting that long-wished-for promotion or job offer.
That said I am not commenting on the content of the OP's post, only the presentation.
Thanks for the in depth thoughts. I don't agree with some of it but we all have our personal requirements as to what works best for us.
It sounds like you are in the same boat as many of us what with a multitude of decent but not fantastic products out there but you have to remember we are still at the dawn/infancy of these devices and they WILL get better. No one tablet is best, rather they are all a set of choices and compromises which is good for the consumer since that leaves a lot of choices out there. That's good.
You have the disadvantage of not shopping for it, rather you got it from your daughter so you didn't even get to choose the compromises you'd be OK accepting. You might have chosen something different but give the A500 a fighting chance (sounds like you are doing that) and I think you'll be fine with it.
I had no problems with your formatting by the way. Type however you feel is best and I'll cope! TYPE IN ALL CAPS IF YOU WANT. I can handle it.
Sounds like your computer experience is similar to mine though I started dabbling in the late 70's and early 80s and on through today. Way to stick with it. Technology is cool.
One suggestion - if you have issues with the A500 slipping out of your hands, consider getting the Zagg full body protection. It's a "skin" you apply to all sides of the tablet and is somewhat rubbery. It makes it a LOT less slippery.
Good luck and thanks for the review.
And if you plan to hangout at McDonalds to use the free wifi, I would advise an app called "KillWifi". It's a nice diagnostic tool allowing to teach a lesson to those pesky Apple "Homesteaders" sucking up all the bandwidth.
Moscow Desire said:
And if you plan to hangout at McDonalds to use the free wifi, I would advise an app called "KillWifi". It's a nice diagnostic tool allowing to teach a lesson to those pesky Apple "Homesteaders" sucking up all the bandwidth.
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You have no right to decide who gets to use the bandwidth and who doesn't. Only selfish douchebags would do what you're advising. Not to mention that it's incredibly childish to annoy other people only because of what device they happen to use, that's like denying you Internet connection because you're wearing a wrong shirt.
Thanks very much for you review. I hope that I will also happy with my coming a500 . Nothing is perfect, but we can learn to be happy with it. Regretting is not good for your health .
Next time, I think you should consider double linefeed (enter) to make things easier to read.
WereCatf said:
You have no right to decide who gets to use the bandwidth and who doesn't. Only selfish douchebags would do what you're advising. Not to mention that it's incredibly childish to annoy other people only because of what device they happen to use, that's like denying you Internet connection because you're wearing a wrong shirt.
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Yea, but it's like wearing a $250 ed hardy tshirt with the dragons and ****, and I would certainly approve of anything to annoy them
Thanks for the suggestions on formatting. I didn't mean for the post to be that long, just got away from me. "typical"
Sent from my A500 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
We all love the Nook but it's getting kind of old in the tooth.
Ok, the Glow4 (7.8") finally upped its game to 1 GB RAM, but that was kind of necessary.
It also added Bluetooth, something that could have been done cheaply and easily to earlier models.
Although I'm no fan of using the latest and greatest Android version, 4.4.2 is getting a bit old.
I understand that this is a tough business where every little part on the BOM (bill of materials) will hurt you.
Still, using single core processor is so yesterday. A Raspberry Pi Zero has quad core for $10-15.
To my mind a 6" 300 DPI reader is about optimal for flowing text reading.
For frequent or work PDF reading I'd want a 10" 300 DPI reader instead of high power reading glasses.
The 8" reader seems to fall uncomfortably in the middle.
The Kobos are Linux based, not Android.
Onyx has some decent choices in their (confusedly similar) product palette.
The older stuff has Android 4.4, the newer stuff Android 9.0
They have quad core and even octa core.
The "Poke 2" looks pretty nice for a 6", but why did they have to add the silver styling?
https://onyxboox.com/boox_poke2
(Oh, well, some sandpaper and a can of black spray paint would fix that.)
As I am in love with the Aard dictionary, my NST has been simply wonderful. But I understand Kobo no longer support an SD card. Where to now?
Same boat. I just got rid of my GLP BNRV510. Hated the light grey, small dictionary font. Also reading PDF seemed to convert those documents to oversized images. My NSTw/GL was awesome. I was going to upgrade to the new NGLP7.8 but the specs and issues with overheating are a turn off. Also I have read reviews stating that you can't side load books anymore? This may also apply to the GLP BNRV510 with the latest firmware update too. Which eReader now?
The Glow2 (BNRV510) is my main read.
If I have to read a PDF, I read it in landscape at two "chunks" a page.
I wouldn't think that B&N would try to lock down sideloads and I don't anticipate it would be hard to defeat.
I hope not but I understand the arguments for your question. To be honest NST as it was not my first choice (first choice was some Sony model) but I love it now. Last time I checked Kobo Aura looked nice but that was long ago and I do not know how things look now on the market.
Recently I was scrubbing my head around this issue. How I see the problem with NST? Well B&N locked out anything and everything humanly possible to prevent users doing something they did not wanted them to do. Devs unlock most of the obstacles out of protest or because of challenge ahead. As it runs ancient version of Android apps are scarce and disappearing fast. Writing an app dedicated for NST might be an act of love toward hardware base made by dedicated fanatic but we can assume there are not to many such individuals around today as Rennate said Nook is old.
So without further ado there are few roads as I see that could be taken if NST is to continue ahead.
1. Upgrades to Android version as far and much its hardware allows and using slightly more up to date apps for it (like CM11 approach running from SD card allows).
2. As Android is just an overlay on Linux leave it as is for B&N sake and good sleep but make some dual boot solution that will actually allow us to boot Linux (something in the line of Ubuntu for devices but not exactly so because as far as I remember that work only for versions of Android above 4) as that could give user maximum possible ability to customize it for his/her use.
3. Just say bye to B&N and build new NST OS from scratch be it Linux or another version of Android as that might be easier due to a clean slate/paper ahead and being less bound to a obstacles made by B&N.
4. It might be possible to create also dual profile on the current NST OS but given its restrictions that might not be of some great use - (B&N profile and user profile). What other forum members think about it?
P.S. I did not want to create separate thread about this and this thread seemed to fit in the general idea of talk about it. I hope Rennate wont mind.
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Renate NST said:
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
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I am glad that you do not mind and find this discussion still within topic you started.
As always you hit problem in the head with much less words then me. I have always wondered what are the limits of hardware requirements needed (minimum) for some tasks/programs to run reliably. And we see that people test those boundaries each day.
You are correct that Android had given people app making opportunities. Sadly recent trend is to take away that from us on old devices as this one. I agree that "awww look its so shiny and buzzing" might look nice but regarding information value its pretty much crap (no way to put it politely sorry). Information is what the people using books/ebooks find to have some merit and it is in the form of text, graph, still picture mostly. I accept that sometimes video can be better tool for presenting certain information but general trend is not in that direction. Information in any shape and form I will accept gladly. Sad truth is that today we have to duck and fight against flash advertising and eye candy web UI of very little value and dubious quality.
I have some doubts what would be the most likely way to continue that is why I made that post. If it was my thread I would make a poll but even here I am willing to hear what is your opinion? Amongst four options I wrote up what would you most likely choose as a way forward? Also if possible please explain why.
1) I think doing an upgrade of Android version on an older device is a bunch of work and hardly justified.
2) I'm not a fan of dual boot. I like to keep things simple. Especially on my main reading device where I just want to pick it up and read.
Android "Linux" has quite a few different things than normal Linux. If you want Linux, get a Kobo.
3) Porting something new to the NST is a lot of work. See #1
4) I don't see the necessity of dividing profiles. I also don't understand what you're looking for.
Ok, I'm a fan of the NST, but it's had its day. The Glows have better resolution and backlight.
You get your choice of capacitive (Glow2) or IR (Glow3) touch screen.
The Android 4.4.2 on the Glows is not so bad yet. (The NST Android 2.1 makes life difficult.)
I think more memory, Bluetooth and a better processor would be on my wish list (in order).
Yes, the Glow4 has Bluetooth.
With enough effort you can fix any little technical thing in life that annoys you.
(I just spend this morning grinding and filing down a piece on my brand new guitar because I couldn't stand the design.)
It's a question of time and also how many people your effort would help.
I think an Onyx Boox is in my future, but I wish they didn't have so many silly models.
It's funny, I still use my original Nook Simple Touch, but a few times a year I find myself curious and looking to see if there's a perfect e-reader out yet for me to upgrade to. In the end it always just seems like nothing is really so much better that I really want to buy it, though.
In particular, page refreshes and overall responsiveness, which are the main things I'd like to be better, still just haven't improved enough on affordable e-readers, in my opinion. A backlight would be kinda cool, but hardly seems like a big deal since personally I'm still pretty used to reading real books, which obviously don't have built in lighting either. I guess a higher density screen might be nice, but I can't say I really notice it on my NST. Newer Android? Maybe, though I've really always been able to find an app that does what I need and works on the NST even with Android 2.1, so I'm not sure what the advantage would be.
I'm a pretty light user of my Nook, though, I guess. Most of the time I'm just reading epubs or sometimes pdfs (scientific papers, which are usually published as double columns, so they work just fine on the NST screen), plus the occasional word games or round of picross here and there. Someday I'm sure I'll upgrade to a new reader, but I think it's gonna be a while at the rate the technology has been improving.
You have stated all valid points here. I understand them and agree to most. Maybe I should explain in more details my points.
I use NST as is. Still restrictions imposed on user by B&N are frustrating sometimes. I mentioned upgrading Android on the device only because its own base is abandoning 2.1 and cutting of access to application made for this version. I have nothing against sideloading apps but if the source to such apps is going to dry out it might be a time for a change. Theoretically with slight upgrade of Linux kernel on it upgrade to gingerbread/honeycomb looks doable. Is it worth the effort is a valid question and that is exactly what I am asking for opinion here.
I am mostly using an OS from that Redmond firm. Although I want to learn and use Linux more I am certainly not looking into using it on e-reader despite it is possible to do on Kobo. Point of dual boot would be to leave B&N stuff as is and do on Linux what you like. At least on Linux you would not be that easily cutoff from apps you want/need. Again looks doable but I am not sure if it is recommendable. Reason for me to considering this is that more and more I read about trying to write/rewrite an apps for this device. Even I have started something similar to porting Linux program to Android and being frustrated by next to nill progress so far started to wonder am I doing it backward and should I run Linux on NST and program in the environment it was written for.
I am surprised Renate is not for whole new OS because the way I see the things she is already halfway there with all the apps she wrote for NST. . I know OS is another matter but let's face it it was half baked product to begin with. I mean Phone.apk really? On a device without sound support! And that app control volume? Man B&N really had shoestring budget for software developer and had us use port of some phone OS instead writing dedicated stuff.
I find multiple profile least advised on such low power device but I could see its merit here and there. I have a cousin which would be happy if she had kids profile on its phone as that would prevent paying triple digit roaming charges. NST most likely do not have the power to pull of multiple profiles although in theory something like that could be made even for Eclare in some crumbly way.
NST have resolution just above low printing and we love it. If some device could achieve 300dpi and have larger screen A4 size preferably with A5 being minimum that would be awesome. There are few device on market Remarkable and Sony with 10 and 13.3 inch screen but they cost still an arm and a leg. Although they shifted concept more toward notebook/sketchbook I have no problem with that but e-book support is next to nothing PDF only if I remember well. I am old and I like to use "pen" on "paper". I will look about other device mentioned. Aura H2O did caught my eye once to be honest.
Now I hope you can see my points more clearly. I find this discussion fruitful. Even if we do nothing we at least have fresh input from others to tickle little gray cells.
As far as upgrades go, upgrading to anything less than Lollipop (5.0) is pretty pointless.
That's already five years old as it is.
As bloat is a given, you're always going to need more memory and a faster processor.
If you want to learn about Linux a Raspberry Pi is certainly an economical solution.
For ~$15 you can get a Raspberry Pi ZeroW.
Android *nix deviates a lot from Linux but mostly in system and startup issues.
You can cross-compile C programs on your Windows box using the the Android NDK and run them in the command line on your Nook.
You won't have direct access to the screen unless you want to write to /dev/graphics/fb0 yourself.
If you don't want the Android layer running at that time you can just turn it on and off with "stop" and "start".
You might try to get into writing regular Java (or Kotlin, but don't get me going on that) applications.
There is something to be said for having your own app that runs on both your phone and your Nook.
There's a lot of convenience in having whatever you're looking for on whatever device you have at the moment.
I always though that backlights were pointless, but I've learned to love them.
If you have copier paper a lot of it is 92% reflective.
The white in eInk is a lot grayer than that.
I always keep my backlight on, but only to the point that it makes up for the gray tint to make it white.
Looking at it you really don't get the impression that it is glowing.
I have stumbled on web page of a project to port some 4+ Android version on NST which pretty much surprised me. Can not remember was it ICS or JB and hell Kitkat would be awesome for device that old. I believe that for that they must abandon B&N stuff almost completely unless they somehow ported it back from Glow versions? And counting in size expected I bet that they reformatted partitions on the device to make it happen. Now will that stick together or fall apart spontaneously is another question. I remember that on xda that somewhere was a thread about disabling OTA from B&N that could brake such upgrade but since they no longer support NST we should not worry about this. I wonder why did you said Lollipop as minimum choice? Do you consider it as minimum acceptable Android version or maximum that NST could possibly run?
As far as Linux go nah I will just play with old laptop instead. Although I caught myself looking to buy present for nephews in electronic realm. Arduino or Pie? aye there is the rub...
I didn't program anything reasonable for a long time. Therefore I am more than rusty in that field. Although I believesome Python or lua script I could manage if enough effort is put on my side.Julia look to me as a programming language that shows some promise to the future from old man perspective. Certainly none of those are useful to porting anything to Android and NST. For the moment I cut my appetite back and will look into how I can backup NST and make virtual image out of it to run it in Virtual box. There I hope to try to learn how things work on Android an play/apply changes in the sand boxed environment. If I break something no harm done just delete virtual drive and start again. I don't want to brick my only NST. Maybe I should buy used one for latter to as I see lot of UK used one have hit the market after B&N closed in UK.
I hate Java from reasons unwilling to disclose or as you said let's not start about that. Idea behind it is fine. Sadly it is lot to be desired on the implementation side. I totally understand that Java might give some benefits especially if we count in the already existing base of programs written on Java. Have a friend who learn and use Java but I personally never manage to overcome my personal detest of it.
Regarding backlight... I never saw Glow. Is there true backlight in like shining through panel? Or did they made something in line of those book lights for real books? I think that could work for capacitive screen but not so much so for IR like NST have. That should not glow much I think and could be regulated in illumination and colour.
The NST has 256M RAM, the Glow2/3 has 512M, the Glow4 has 1G, my $40 phone has 2G.
The $60 Kobo I have has only 256M, but it just runs Linux.
I couldn't be bothered to update my NST even if you handed me an image on a platter.
ebay has the Glow4 (open box) for $130.
I wouldn't even try to update that to a newer version, too much work.
Since this thread started the Boox Poke3 6" reader has come out.
It has Android 10, 8 CPUs, 2G RAM, Bluetooth and lists for $190.
That's a heck of a lot more of a device than the Glow3 for $120.
It also doesn't have the ugly styling of the Poke2.
https://www.boox.com/poke3/
Hmm, currently not in the US warehouse.
I'm a big fan of Arduino and RPi, but it gets complicated.
An adult friend bought an Arduino, hooked up an LCD and a thermometer, loaded the sketch.
It worked. They got bored. End of the story.
I don't know what the solution is. You make it too easy, they get bored. You make it too hard, they get frustrated.
I'm not a fan of the whole Arduino infrastructure and the Processing language. I prefer just AVR8. But I am "old skool".
I use RPi a lot, but I've only seen the desktop version about once.
I use headless and also digital signage without X Windows or desktop.
The Glow2 has single color edge lit backlight, The Glow3/4 uses dual color (blending) edge lit backlight.
If you hold them sighting down the face of the screen at a very low angle you can tell there are discreet LEDs.
(It's nothing you could ever see in normal usage.)
I checked Boox first time you mentioned it. Impressive progress I must say. Paradox is that as I understand newer Android versions are more optimized to be run even on underpowered devices but I agree that NST is both old and underpowered. Still even you mentioned that Kobo has same low memory but still running successfully Linux only environment. That speaks a lot in Linux favor regarding resource management and use. Yes there are slim chances someone cook something up for NST and even then people will just buy new device that is several times better. You wouldn't believe but B&N readers are hard to find here. I had to ask a friend to bring me the one from Middle East because it was available there so go figure.
Thanks for the opinion about Arduino vs RPi. I think you might be right. Kids nowadays will be interested to program more than to assemble something and experiment. Its a shame because I think they could learn more about physics by fiddling with Arduino.
Thanks for explaining me or rather confirming how light on Glow device is made. I am curious how they sorted out possible interference of lighting with IR touchscreen but I guess they somehow used non overlapping LEDs for those two separate things or passthrough IR only filters on IR detector side. In theory even some simple software calibration could work for that but I am also an "old skool" and wouldn't choose that as my way had I have gotten the task to build something of this kind. I might rig me some "lights" for old fashioned hardcopy books. Not that I can't buy it online but I want to engage my fingers a little.
If you haven't played with it yet, the Touch-1.0.apk (in the sig) works on the NST and will show you how/where the beams of IR go.
It can be helpful to see where dirt or distortion of the bezel is making it difficult for touches to be registered correctly.
Since the party seems to be going into a topic of what next best e-reader should be maybe we could exchange opinions about certain things available as in are they necessary or good enough at this moment. For example Boox is offering a model that can show ebooks as black and white or I presume as 4 color "print". As B&W it present it as 300dpi which is on par with printed books and man can not ask for more in my opinion. Alas when it present 4 color "print" it is meager 100dpi that could mean even NST just blows it out of scene. So my vote on color e-reader is still no. If it ever reach 150dpi it will become a thing to consider but right now it is still under acceptable performance from mine point of view.
Do you consider making notes on a device important? I am asking because I have mentioned ReMarkable and Sony DPT (which is gone now). Sony again made good device only to withdraw from the market at the end. While I understand that in the e-reader case as Amazon blow them out securing the better library this time I am afraid it is Sony's own fault. There exist few rebranded models of hardware Sony used with seemingly better software Fujitsu Quadreno and Mooink Pro. Mooink support PDF, epub, docs and text and offers a software for file conversion and DRM management. There are few annoying things. Almost none have microSD card option now. It is replaced with cloud storage or printing. And I personally like having pen but I find being robbed when they sell it separately and with replaceable tips because they made those to wear out. Cost is way to high despite larger screen.
I'm not clear on what you mean with "4 color".
The only thing that I can see on the website is a way to save your scribbles to an external file where you can set the color saved (but not viewed) on the device.
If you've ever seen a store white/red/black eInk shelf label update you'll know that that's only useful for things that change once a day.
I don't look too closely at the reader software itself since I'll probably just use my own.
I hate the sort of pictograph selection of small, medium, large font.
What if I want 5% larger than medium?
There's always a bit of conflict between SD card and waterproof.
I figure 32 GB fixed storage is large enough for me.
There's always a big tossup what is the correct mix of devices, phone, ereader, tablet, tablet with pen, tablet with keyboard, laptop, desktop?
I've never owned a personal laptop, never seen the sense (for me).
Rarely do I use a tablet or a phone with a BT keyboard when I want to do some sort of bulk inputting or fleshing out an idea or transcribing lyrics.
I kind of like digitizers, but never found a way that the utility exceeds the space they take.
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color. Yet is it worth buying?
Yes I understand your choice to use custom reader software. File support seems to have always been a problem and it just went worse from there.
Yes waterproof device shouldn't have SD card. I have mean more in a sense of having the ability to root, backup and thinker with the device.
SJT75 said:
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color.
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The product selection of Onyx or Boox or Onyx Boox has always confused the heck out of me.
Currently on https://www.boox.com/allproducts/ there is no indication of anything color.
Moreover, the "About Us" speaks of "We focus on E Ink ( ePaper) devices only. "
But I do remember seeing something previously on the website that spoke of color.