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http://www.slate.com/id/2244165/
What's Wrong With Android
If Google fixes one simple thing, its operating system will surpass the iPhone's.
By Farhad Manjoo
Posted Tuesday, Feb. 9, 2010, at 5:48 PM ET
Nexus One. Click image to expand.Nexus One When Google launched the Nexus One in January, the company hit on an odd bit of marketing to distinguish the new phone from its rivals. This was a "superphone," Google said—every other cellular device on the market was merely "smart." The designation didn't make much sense—despite what Google would have you believe, the Nexus One doesn't have any major features that set it apart from other top-of-the-line phones. It makes calls, does e-mail, and browses the Web; so do the iPhone, the Palm Pre, various BlackBerrys, and every other Android phone. All top-end smartphones have Wi-Fi, 3G, and GPS. They've all got app stores that can give you access to a wide variety of third-party programs. And though smartphones come in two distinct hardware flavors—either with or without a physical keyboard—they are all very pretty to look at.
If you're looking to buy a new smartphone, then, the most important thing to ask isn't "What does it do?" Instead, it's "How does it do it?" Phones that seem identical on paper turn out to be wildly different once you turn them on. The most important feature on any phone is one rarely mentioned in a spec list: the operating system. If the OS is clunky and overstuffed, like what you'll find on the BlackBerry, you'll have a devil of a time doing everything on your device. If it's stylish and intuitive, like the iPhone's, you'll find your phone a pleasure.
So where does the Nexus One fall in that range? Right near the top. I've been using Google's new phone for a month, more or less as a replacement for my own phone, the iPhone 3GS. Google has described the Nexus One as a kind of concept car for its open-source Android platform—the company designed the phone from top-to-bottom in order to show off how awesome an Android phone can really be. To that end, the Nexus One succeeds. If I were forced to give up my iPhone, I'd replace it with a Nexus One.
But I hope that doesn't come to pass. I like the Nexus One, I really do—but it has a long way to go to catch up with Apple's device.
The essential problem is that Android's interface is much less intuitive than the iPhone's. Much of the OS's functionality is hidden—Android can do a lot, but unlike the iPhone it keeps many of its options stuffed in menu bars. As a result, the Nexus One asks new users to climb a steeper learning curve. You've got to poke around every program to find out how to do its most basic tasks. Even once you've learned the easy stuff, the OS is still a struggle—it takes several steps to do something on Android that you can do in one step on the iPhone.
To illustrate my point, look at both phones' calendar programs. Here are shots of each phone's "month view"—the Nexus One is on the left, and the iPhone on the right:*
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As you can see, the Nexus One's screen offers a bit more detail than the iPhone's. It gives you a little indicator bar next to each day of the month to show how much of the day has been booked up, while the iPhone adds only a small bold dot on any day with an appointment—which doesn't tell you much in a quick glance.
But say you want to change your calendar—if you need to add an appointment or switch to a daily view, for instance. Even if you've never used one before, it's obvious how you'd do so on the iPhone—every button is right on the screen. To add an appointment, just click the plus sign in the top right corner. To switch to a daily view, hit "Day." To look at another calendar, tap the "Calendars" button.
Doing those same things on the Nexus One isn't as obvious, because many of its functions are hidden in a list of options that require you to hit an additional button first—the phone's universal Menu button, which is not on the screen but under it, one of four built-in buttons below the screen. To add an appointment, you've got to hit Menu first, then click the Plus icon. To switch to the weekly view, do the same thing—first hit Menu, then choose the weekly option. But that's not all: There's another menu button hidden under this menu. When you hit this menu-within-menu, you'll get another list of options, including one to adjust which of your calendars is displayed—an option that, on the iPhone, is presented on the calendar's main screen.
This problem is not confined to the calendar app—it's everywhere on Android, in Google's built-in apps as well as third-party programs you download from the app store. To search for an address in the iPhone's map program, you click the search bar at the top of your screen; to do the same thing in Android's map program, you hit Menu first, then Search. To load a bookmarked Web page in the iPhone's browser, you hit the bookmark icon. To do so in Android, you've got to—you guessed it—hit Menu first, then Bookmark.
Android partisans might counter that you need to learn only one thing to use the phone: When in doubt, hit Menu and everything will be revealed. That's true; after using the Nexus One for some time, I eventually learned to click this universal button when an option wasn't immediately visible. But the constant menu hunting isn't ideal. First, it's a hurdle to new users—it's not obvious that you've got to keep clicking this button to look for features that ought to be highlighted on a single screen. What's more, the hidden menus slow you down. The whole point of loading up the maps program is to look up an address; why would you hide that option under a menu bar?
I think the answer comes down to a philosophical difference between the Apple and Google user interface teams. With the iPhone, Apple is clearly trying to make a complete break with desktop operating systems. The iPhone's Human Interface Guidelines—Apple's instructions for developers creating iPhone apps—are clear on this point, stressing that every iPhone app should highlight its main functions on its main screen, using icons that are easy to understand. "Make it obvious," the guidelines chide developers: "You can't assume that users have the time (or can spare the attention) to figure out how your application works. Therefore, you should strive to make your application instantly understandable to users."
The Android platform is much looser in this regard. Its interface guidelines don't discourage hidden menus: "All but the simplest applications have menus," the interface guide tells developers. In other words, under Android's design philosophy, menus are a natural consequence of complexity—and the more powerful a program, the more likely it is to be stuffed with hidden menus. That's a familiar view of computing, one deeply tied to the interface on the standard PC—after all, every program on your laptop or desktop hides much of its functionality under menus, too.
But that philosophy feels outmoded. We're increasingly abandoning desktop programs for most of our computing needs, and we're replacing them with Web apps or mobile apps that are much more straightforward to use. I rarely reach for menu bars anymore; the programs I use most often these days—Chrome, Gmail, Google Maps, Microsoft Office 2007, and nearly everything on my iPhone—present most of their functions on the main screen.
So come on, Android team— join the menu-free bandwagon! You've got a great OS—with a little work, it could be the best mobile operating system on the market. Wouldn't that be more obvious if you didn't keep everything hidden?
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What do you guys think?
I'll hold my comments/rage in order to start this off objectively...
Basically, he's saying that Android needs to be dumbed down so that, just like the iPhone, it too can be useable by five-year-olds.
No thanks. Having intellectually developed beyond the age of five, I for one am capable of telling four soft buttons apart. A feat one can only expect of mental giants, I know, which I'm sure is asking too much of Apple fansheep.
"You can't assume that users have the time (or can spare the attention) to figure out how your application works. Therefore, you should strive to make your application instantly understandable to users."
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Translation: assume everyone is a retard and develop accordingly. Sweet. Seriously, a more intuitive interface is good, but I feel that Android's plenty intuitive as it is. It just happens to offer more options to the end user (and presumably to developers too), which can't just all be vomited onto the app's main screen. I'll go with a greater range of options and customization over a one-button, idiot-proof UI, please.
grainysand said:
Basically, he's saying that Android needs to be dumbed down so that, just like the iPhone, it too can be useable by five-year-olds.
No thanks. Having intellectually developed beyond the age of five, I for one am capable of telling four soft buttons apart. A feat one can only expect of mental giants, I know, which I'm sure is asking too much of Apple fansheep.
Translation: assume everyone is a retard and develop accordingly. Sweet. Seriously, a more intuitive interface is good, but I feel that Android's plenty intuitive as it is. It just happens to offer more options to the end user (and presumably to developers too), which can't just all be vomited onto the app's main screen. I'll go with a greater range of options and customization over a one-button, idiot-proof UI, please.
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Gotta agree! I read this article last night, and was biting my tongue the whole time. I can't believe the guy had the balls to claim it takes too many key presses to do things on Android compared to the iPhone... Hmmm, lets check that:
He is wrong about making an appointment, in Android you can long press the day and it pops up a short list of options for that day, new event being one of them. I don't see how hard that is, or how it takes too many key presses, and actually it is the same # as the iPhone.
Lets make a phone call... on an iPhone you gotta find the dialer, then search the contact, yada yada yada.... on Android, just tap the contact short cut, or start typing a name in the search bar, or really hard here folks, hold down the search key until voice command turns on, then say "Call John Doe"...
And it goes on and on... Sure, Android has menus giving the user more options, but what is wrong with that? The only thing I agree with is that Android could be a bit prettier, well the 3rd party apps, and it will blow the iPhone out of the water given a little more refinement, especially considering as is it already is better.
pjcforpres said:
He is wrong about making an appointment, in Android you can long press the day and it pops up a short list of options for that day, new event being one of them. I don't see how hard that is, or how it takes too many key presses, and actually it is the same # as the iPhone.
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****, since I use a grid calendar widget, I don't even have to load up the calendar app to add new events. I swipe to the homescreen with said widget, press the desire date and voila: a dialog box pops up for me to enter the event name, more or less like the quick add in the full google calendar.
on Android, just tap the contact short cut, or start typing a name in the search bar, or really hard here folks, hold down the search key until voice command turns on, then say "Call John Doe"...
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iPhone users might finally get contact shortcuts on their homescreen in the next iPhone--after three whole years! Revolutionary really, just like copy-and-paste and sending MMS were.
The essential problem is that Android's interface is much less intuitive than the iPhone's. Much of the OS's functionality is hidden—Android can do a lot, but unlike the iPhone it keeps many of its options stuffed in menu bars.
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What a load of crap. Seriously. Android is much quicker to use than apple's toy, probably the worst thing about the iPhone is that you have to open an app for EVERYTHING, even to read a tiny little SMS that was just sent to you. Opening apps = time, and is not at all as intuitive as having a custom living screen with the information you want displayed on it.
You're 100% right, pjcforpres. Dumbing devices down does not make them better. There are plenty ways to have an intuitive interface without cutting off options. I'd say the only thing really missing in android at the moment is not a dumb-phone-like drilling of limited options on the main screen, but a dumb-phone-like music player, or at least one with a simple five-band eq... I hope google don't take notice of idiots like the one who wrote that article and work on ADDING functionality to our devices, rather than taking it away.
First he was wrong on two points forgot what they were ((read this yesterday)).
Its amazing how only iphone people want there UI to be simpler. Hitting a Fn menu key is destroying the experience for you ?
Secondly
because many of its functions are hidden in a list of options that require you to hit an additional button first—the phone's universal Menu button,
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How the hell is "MENU" something hidden.
His knock is a major plus in UI developing. When you can have a single dedicated button to sub menu options it makes UI creation ALOT easier. Your app will have more real estate to display relevant info and your interface will be less cluttered because of it.
From an OS standpoint the Menu button provides uniformity the Apple OS lacks. Every apps sub menus can be reached by the same button. Iphone the menus and options are often all over the place on apps.
N1 interface took a major leap forward IMO. The news genie app is a prototype to how simple and extremly functional an App can be.
What Android needs is better visual designers. They suck. Almost by default Iapps will have better visual appeal because many of the best graphic designers are already in the Apple ecosystem. They have a better talent pool.
Most apps on Android have the visuals seem almost like an afterthought. Heck even on XDA all the tons of useful apps that people have come up with few if any are actually visually well done. ((PURE apps being one of them)) and frankly even those are barely cracking "good" looking.
The fact they went to cooliris for the gallery , and rumored to be working with coreplayer guys for media player. At least makes me think Google acknowledge there visual appeal shortcomings.
Bottom line Iphone is Mcdonalds , Android is a nice restaurant.
Crying out for in your face menus and narrowed options makes me think you should just get up and go to the fastfood joint down the street.
To be fair this guy is just like me, a clearly longer term iPhone user who when faced with the differences is struggling. In the calendar app for example, yes you have to press an extra button, but in return you get more on the screen, a decent trade off in my opinion (as basically an iPhone fanboy).
It comes down to preference, and to be fair to the guy, he does say that if he had to get rid of the iPhone the N1 would be his pick.
I am trying to hold back on comments while I try to get to grips with Android after a good year plus on the iPhone, and today I used the N1 exclusively, left the 3GS at home.
What I found is that voice dialing is not as good as 3GS version, unless I am doing something wrong which is quite possible, and don't underestimate how useful Universal Search is on iPhone. From the First Home screen, (never more that 2 keypresses away), a single press always give a search function, which allows you to type anything and the list narrows down with each letter. It can be set to search in as many or as few catagories as you want, and in most cases you find what you need within a few letters.
When I saw the tittle of this post, I assumed this was the one thing he was talking about.
grainysand is right about one thing, Apple do take their sweet time to add stuff, but when they do, i.e Cut and Paste and Universal Search, it is class leading.
Kev
Kev
jay_zhead said:
even to read a tiny little SMS that was just sent to you.
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Now come on, if you are gonna pick on something, surely not this?
I have both phones here, so, I sent an SMS from my 3GS to my Nexus One, and made sure the screen was off. OK, so I get the noise and the flashing trackball. The screen does not come on. To read the message I have to Slide the lock over, and then I have to sweep the notifications bar down, and then I can see what the message is.
So I sent an SMS back to my 3GS from the N1, again, I made sure the iPhone screen was off.
I got my alert, it automatically turns my screen on, and the SMS is right there, on the screen, I do not have to OPEN anything at all. If I was away from my 3GS at the time, the message would still be right there when I next turn it on.
So, completely the opposite to what you are claiming. Wanna try again?
Kev
kevwright said:
To be fair this guy is just like me, a clearly longer term iPhone user who when faced with the differences is struggling. In the calendar app for example, yes you have to press an extra button, but in return you get more on the screen, a decent trade off in my opinion (as basically an iPhone fanboy).
It comes down to preference, and to be fair to the guy, he does say that if he had to get rid of the iPhone the N1 would be his pick.
I am trying to hold back on comments while I try to get to grips with Android after a good year plus on the iPhone, and today I used the N1 exclusively, left the 3GS at home.
What I found is that voice dialing is not as good as 3GS version, unless I am doing something wrong which is quite possible, and don't underestimate how useful Universal Search is on iPhone. From the First Home screen, (never more that 2 keypresses away), a single press always give a search function, which allows you to type anything and the list narrows down with each letter. It can be set to search in as many or as few catagories as you want, and in most cases you find what you need within a few letters.
When I saw the tittle of this post, I assumed this was the one thing he was talking about.
grainysand is right about one thing, Apple do take their sweet time to add stuff, but when they do, i.e Cut and Paste and Universal Search, it is class leading.
Kev
Kev
Click to expand...
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My problem is that there seems to be know comprehension of what a learning curve is.
Going form a nintendo wii to an xbox 360 is going to be daunting the first few days/weeks...why ? because you can do more. The less you can do the easier you can make things.
You seem to have a grasp of this curve..the writer and many others dont.
My issue is that these guys write blogs posts etc that may get Googles attention. Thus Google starts paying attention to things it doesnt need to change and takes attention from what DOES need changing.
As for you specifically Im glad youre giving it a shot and hope you enjoy it..
The universal search can be customized in the settings menu contacts/apps/songs/web even specific to certain apps.....
It can also be activated with one touch ((magnifying glass button on lower right))
Tap once for quick search , long press for voice search.
I think his whole reasoning just points out how GOOD the menu button is.
When he talks about having ALL of the buttons you need on the screen it just points out that you can have much MORE options with a menu button, the opposite to what he says. Also, when you put ALL of the buttons you need on the screen, you immediately lose a third of the screen.
To search for an address in the iPhone's map program, you click the search bar at the top of your screen; to do the same thing in Android's map program, you hit Menu first, then Search. To load a bookmarked Web page in the iPhone's browser, you hit the bookmark icon.
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erm, no thanks. When I open my maps application I don't want to see a thousand options and a huge search bar, I want to see the MAP.
To do so in Android, you've got to—you guessed it—hit Menu first, then Bookmark.
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Wrong again... just press the search button. I know 4 buttons gets complicated for the long time iPhone users but even my 4 year old niece can use my sister's G1. (she plays coloroid; opens it herself too).
Edit: I read a post somewhere from an iPhone user using the nexus one saying he couldn't figure out which button to use to complete a task, he found it confusing... What has Jobs done ¬¬
kevwright said:
I got my alert, it automatically turns my screen on, and the SMS is right there, on the screen, I do not have to OPEN anything at all. If I was away from my 3GS at the time, the message would still be right there when I next turn it on.
Click to expand...
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Handcent sms allows you to customize this. You can make your screen turn on and pop up appear , or just in the notification bar.
kevwright said:
grainysand is right about one thing, Apple do take their sweet time to add stuff, but when they do, i.e Cut and Paste and Universal Search, it is class leading.
Kev
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The thing, though, is that such things should have been there from the start. Apple's the king of limiting functions, so that when they finally release basic crap that should never have been left out in later versions, people will cough up money for it and dance for joy--whereas anyone sane would have been fed up with that lack in the first place and ditched Apple a long time ago. Everyone is trying to maximize profits, obviously, but none does it so brazenly and shamelessly as Apple. Their products aren't tools that function. They are status symbols, mostly informing the world that you have more money than sense (or have no understanding of finance management--I've seen tech-illiterate people who aren't exactly loaded go for a Mac because they buy into the advertising campaigns and that "it just works" bull, even though buying a Windows PC with equivalent/better hardware will cost them half the money).
Heck, the iPhone 3GS is still more expensive than an N1 even though it's running on horrifyingly outdated hardware.
I think everyone -who chose a phone with android OS- has enough IQ to hit the menu button for executing off-screen functions. Android offers more than it can show, you can't force-fit everything on the screen.
grainysand said:
Basically, he's saying that Android needs to be dumbed down so that, just like the iPhone, it too can be useable by five-year-olds.
No thanks. Having intellectually developed beyond the age of five, I for one am capable of telling four soft buttons apart. A feat one can only expect of mental giants, I know, which I'm sure is asking too much of Apple fansheep.
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Click to collapse
I don't disagree that the menu button is an easy, and intuitive way to use the OS. I also feel it's a benefit because it reduces clutter on the screen. I am able to have the full view of Google Maps at once, as opposed to it being partially covered with a search menu always on the screen.
That being said, your reaction to his comments are indicative of one issue with Android. You're calling people who use iPhones retarded 5 year olds, and you, as a brilliant geek savant, are too elite and exclusive to appeal to the lowly iPhone users. Unfortunately for you, in order for Android to become a successful operating system, it needs to appeal to all walks of life, and make the experience as easy as possible.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it. More and more people are using Macs, because they feel Macs are easier to use than PC's. The entire reason Linux hasn't taken off as a main stream OS, aside from a lack of push from any one source, is because it's one of the most confusing programs ever created.
Google should do everything it can to make Android as easy and intuitive to use for consumers of all walks of life. If they don't, Android will never succeed, and it will just become a niche OS for geeks just like Linux is.
Unfortunately, just taking this step isn't everything that's needed to make Android successful.
Side note: The author should point out you can long press almost anything in Android to get a menu of options without hitting the menu soft button. That's very intuitive.
xManMythLegend said:
Handcent sms allows you to customize this. You can make your screen turn on and pop up appear , or just in the notification bar.
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Sure thing, I totally appreciate your can change it for Android, just pointing out a frustration of people slagging the iPhone for not having something which is so clearly does have.
I have both an iPhone and the Nexus One, and I feel that a huge number of iPhone haters on here have never ever used one.
Kev
xSiraris said:
You're calling people who use iPhones retarded 5 year olds, and you, as a brilliant geek savant, are too elite and exclusive to appeal to the lowly iPhone users.
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On the contrary; the brilliant geek savants are the people who develop and mess with the code. I'm a peon much like anyone else, but you don't need to be a brilliant savant to understand, utilize, and distinguish four buttons. The iPhone OS is useable by toddlers--literally--which is fantastic for toddlers, but it also means you can't do jack-squat with it. Why should everyone be forced to the same level of non-customizable, closed, boring UI? Android's appeal is its options.
Unfortunately for you, in order for Android to become a successful operating system, it needs to appeal to all walks of life, and make the experience as easy as possible.
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At which point do you stop? Does Android need to cater to the lowest common denominator, or does it merely need to gain enough market-share or mindshare to have staying power? Beyond a certain point, you get dumbed-down garbage with no options for anyone: hence non-JB iPhone homescreens all looking identical (and even with themes/backgrounds, they still look essentially the same). If Android's dumbed down to the level where it'll no longer "scare" away people with attention span so short and intellect so limited they can't do anything but interact with a one-button device, where does that leave people who are fine with being able to customize their homescreens how they like, install whatever app they like, and enjoy the extra screen real estate thanks to the presence of buttons?
FYI, my mother's computer-illiterate. She tried my N1 and found it incredibly intuitive. So which breed of utterly, absolutely hopeless morons exactly find Android too complicated to use? Apart from the tool that wrote this article, I mean.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it. More and more people are using Macs, because they feel Macs are easier to use than PC's.
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Fantastic. They deserve to pay Apple's stupidity tax.
kevwright said:
I have both an iPhone and the Nexus One, and I feel that a huge number of iPhone haters on here have never ever used one.
Kev
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What a coincidence, because most Apple fanboys have never used anything but Macs and iPhones, but that doesn't stop them from showing up to troll Windows/Android users: anything from "Windows blue-screens five times a day and you need to format a Windows PC every week" or "I used to use Windows but, being retarded beyond belief, got it infected with fifty varieties of malware within five minutes of Internet use. MICROSOFT SUCKS." Not speaking of you specifically (although, haha), but just take a look at any popular tech blog. For every sensible Apple user, you will get twelve more singing panegyrics to the might of Steve Jobs and how Apple devices are the best ever and will never, ever lose their dominance. Uh, apart from the fact that they still don't have a majority market share in the PC sector, but you know. Facts and logic don't feature in fanboy-vision.
xSiraris said:
I don't disagree that the menu button is an easy, and intuitive way to use the OS. I also feel it's a benefit because it reduces clutter on the screen. I am able to have the full view of Google Maps at once, as opposed to it being partially covered with a search menu always on the screen.
That being said, your reaction to his comments are indicative of one issue with Android. You're calling people who use iPhones retarded 5 year olds, and you, as a brilliant geek savant, are too elite and exclusive to appeal to the lowly iPhone users. Unfortunately for you, in order for Android to become a successful operating system, it needs to appeal to all walks of life, and make the experience as easy as possible.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it. More and more people are using Macs, because they feel Macs are easier to use than PC's. The entire reason Linux hasn't taken off as a main stream OS, aside from a lack of push from any one source, is because it's one of the most confusing programs ever created.
Google should do everything it can to make Android as easy and intuitive to use for consumers of all walks of life. If they don't, Android will never succeed, and it will just become a niche OS for geeks just like Linux is.
Unfortunately, just taking this step isn't everything that's needed to make Android successful.
Side note: The author should point out you can long press almost anything in Android to get a menu of options without hitting the menu soft button. That's very intuitive.
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Im sorry but if a person cant spend a few minutes to learn a phone , or the Android OS is too complicated perhaps a smartphone isnt the right purchase.
Its a basic philosophical difference. Android can be retard simple. It just wont be able to do anything. It cant read ones mind. (yet). So long as there is choice there will be options and a learning curve.
The reason most people are afraid of computers is because they are difficult to use, and they don't understand it.
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Its 2010. If people are afraid of computers theyre in for a complicated frustrating existence.((OR a really easy one ))
The reason Macs are gaining popularity ((as if a 1-2% growth in a 20 year old market is anything to brag about)) is because of PERCEIVED ease.
I cant fathom what kind of human being wouldnt be able to turn on a PC and check there email , play there music , or look at photos.
I have 6 yr old nephews , 43 yr old super computer boob parents , and elderly family members readily and easily using PCs.
The dumbing down of technology to the lowest common denominator is not a good thing.
Fact of the matter is at the end of the day its all about $$$$$
We can argue till the cows come home but at the end of the day theres simply no way for people to know what to do or what they can do on there new phone without someone showing them or them having seen a million commercials showing them what can be done.
THATS why iPhone is so successful $$$$ advertising , plugging your device into peoples heads via tv and print ads.
The Android OS needs to pretty itself up a bit more. But face it VZ proved what a few ads can do for a phone reputation and sales.
grainysand said:
The thing, though, is that such things should have been there from the start.
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Sure they should, I had the original iPhone and hated it, sold it right away.
Then I got the 3G and it was OK, but still not really great.
The 3GS however is just a different tool, it really is. The speed of changing apps, and the ease with which devs seem to have mastered the resume functions really do mitigate the lack of Multitasking in an stock 3GS.
But how about this. Have we all forgotten what phones were about in 2007 when the original iPhone launched? Apart from the Nokia N95 8GB, there were some real stinkers back then.
Also, what do you think about the updates that Apple do deliver? There are not many companies that deliver updates that completely change the experience, and you do not have to upgrade hardware to benefit. Look at Android, only lately have we seen a real effort to update the OS, I think the Hero in the UK still comes with 1.5
grainysand said:
Heck, the iPhone 3GS is still more expensive than an N1 even though it's running on horrifyingly outdated hardware.
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In the UK they are around that same price. a 16GB 3GS is now £449 without a contract, and £10 more to unlock it. If you are prepared to run it on our O2 network for the first year, the buying price of £449 includes unlimited (real not capped) data on both 3G and wi-fi for the 12 months. O2 is an OK network, I would say much better than AT&T from what I read.
The N1 I just bought was £430 with VAT, and a 16GB memory card is about £30, so a very similar price. I don't think there is anyway you can say 3GS is outdated, after all, how many decent 3D games and FPS do you see on Android?
Please note I do not play games, so don't care about it, just pointing out that the 3GS hardware is not that far behind the N1
Kev
This pisses me off every time I hear "not as intuitive as the iphone."
Intuitive? It's a screen with a bunch of ICONS. It's like having your desktop screen on your computer covered with icons.
And it can't multi-task so how is it easier to do stuff?
The only reason I liked my 3gs was because I had backgrounder + proswitcher (or kirikae) and widgets on my lockscreen and homescreen.
But it was a ***** to set-up the widgets with all the iblanks I had to do.
The Iphone is NOT intuitive, it's just simple. Freaking apple fanboys. *ROAR!*
I'm not going to argue with people who refuse to see another perspective, in particular because they believe anyone who doesn't agree with their perspective is some sort of lesser human being.
I guess the only thing I'd point out is that Apple has sold over 40 million iPhones to date. Android has sold maybe 3-4 million.
I'm posting this here, because I would assume that most of the people who bought a Note did it because of the S-Pen. Therefore, you probably did it for artistic reasons, or because of handwriting support.
Personally, I did it for artsy reasons. For the last couple years (since I got my iPad1) I have been preferring drawing pictures digitally. In order to reference my "style" (might help with my later question) my work is on:
http://niiru.deviantart.com/
I had a few setbacks (apps being a pain, etc) and problems with resolutions and all that, but for the last few months it was ticking along nicely.
And then... I wanted to upgrade my tablet. But an iPad4? The same as what I had pretty much, but the new version? Seemed boring... even though it would be easy, as I could keep the new apps etc...
BUT no... I impulse bought a Note10.1 instead. Because the more-accurate style of stylus could only help, and pressure support? I did without it until now, but it might help in future!
HOWEVER...
I started with Sketchbook Pro on the ipad, a good program. However it was limited in the resolution you could use, which meant that the exported pictures were not very big on my computer screen. And of course, if you enlarge them, they become heavily pixelated. Not good.
So I changed to vector programs, mostly one called "iDraw", which is basically a full adobe illustrator style program. Does absolutely everything. And the main advantage being, the vectors are saved when you export the file... so you can make the pictures as big as you want without any pixellation problems!
My problem with android though... the only vector apps I can find are Adobe Ideas (very very badly rated, 1 star app...) and one called Infinite Design (very highly rated, but still rough around the edges).
BACK TO THE POINT...
So while Adobe Ideas is being made into something thats... not crap. And while infinte design is working out its issues (though I'm still going to try and use it), I wondered what all you guys out in Note-land were using?
Im expecting some nods to sketchbook pro.... and I'm really hoping someone will tell me a way to get around its "canvas size is limited to screen resolution" problem. As this... is pretty bad.
...and I'm also hoping for a few new ideas, some "diamond in the rough" apps which haven't reached my ears yet..
Really hoping I won't regret buying the Note to be honest... I had high hopes for it. It has hit an early hurdle, even taking into account the relative youth of the android tablet app environment.
FOR THOSE WHO SKIPPED THE WALL OF TEXT:
QUESTION - What do you guys use, to make pretty pictures on the tablets. Vector based for preference, or bitmap if the canvas size can be changed!
Thanks y'all.
(excuse any rambling, it is 2am here. 'nuff said.)
edit: I didn't put this in the "questions" thread, because its not a question about the Note itself... sorry if that was a mistake.
I also bought the note to draw on and do some sketching, but have been unable to find a program that I like. I keep getting random lines with some of the apps from leaning on the screen. Very dissapointing, but I would like to see what people would recommend
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
rgane5327 said:
I also bought the note to draw on and do some sketching, but have been unable to find a program that I like. I keep getting random lines with some of the apps from leaning on the screen. Very dissapointing, but I would like to see what people would recommend
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, after another half hour of playing around with Infinite Design, I can see why a) some people give it great reviews, and b) why some people hate it.
I'll start with b) - The interface is a little confusing, and definately needs to be worked on. I think its a one-man project though, so things like UI design may not be at the top of his list. It takes a while to find some things, like certains tools and ways of doing things. I guess thats what they would call a learning curve though.
however...
a) This app does have some very very clever design features. I have found a couple that have actually wowed me, and made me think I could use it to do some really interesting work.
For instance, you can add a line of symmetry to a drawing, so that everything you draw is mirrored along a vertical/horizontal/angled line of symmetry.
Not too special you say? Well you can add this line mid-drawing, without it automatically mirroring your previous work, and do a couple mirrored lines, then remove it. Ive known programs that would simply mirror everything.
Still not enough? The line of symmetry is customisable, it defaults to the centre of where your screen is aimed on the canvas, and can be moved to any location. *This is actually potentially very useful, and I know of no iOS apps that have this as a feature.*
back to b) though, finding out HOW to put in these lines of symmetry, and how to then move them (it involves a tool that is in a different menu entirely) was half judgement and half luck on my part. There aren't any tutorials for any of this stuff *yet*.
But yes, if vectors float your boat (as they do mine) it would seem that "Infinite Design" is currently the one to watch on Android. Its not perfect, it will take some work and getting used to, but with a few more updates (and the guy seems to be working on them fairly regularly, relatively speaking) it could be something pretty special.
SO I have put in an answer to my own question, someone elses turn now!
Edit:
I actually emailed the creators of sketchbook pro (auto desk) because I was so annoyed by the canvas size limitation I wanted to vent my anger in a request for much-needed-changes...
Less than an hour later, I had an actual reply! I was shocked, to say the least.
Apparently Chad (the auto desk guy) was so helpful, he decided to let me know that the new version of sketchbook for iPad and android was coming soon, and would have changes to the canvas limitation, as well as various other "exciting changes in the way people will use this app".
He seemed excited, and now so am I!
So there might be good things coming for sketchbook pro, and I am glad as that was always a very good app on iOS.
niiiice nirurin ! ... Sketchbook pro needs Palm rejection badly and faster input without a lag.
I use
Lecture notes - for fast input line drawings
Paint Joy now known as Doodle Joy :good:
Sketchbook Pro
Photoshop touch
Drawing :good:
Markers
Pretty Painter
Quill
Sketch and Paint
Layer Paint
Snote Jellybean version , for collage type cutting and pasting multiple images and creating new concept characters .
me and my colleagues here @ Dreamworks Animation use the tablet mainly for caricature and painting , so its art all the way .
You may want to check out this thread to see some examples of art Note 10.1 users have done. Will also give you some idea of the capabilities of the apps they used.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1861201
Quill or Papyrus are the best drawing apps in my opinion.
hpblze said:
niiiice nirurin ! ... Sketchbook pro needs Palm rejection badly and faster input without a lag.
I use
Lecture notes - for fast input line drawings
Paint Joy now known as Doodle Joy :good:
Sketchbook Pro
Photoshop touch
Drawing :good:
Markers
Pretty Painter
Quill
Sketch and Paint
Layer Paint
Snote Jellybean version , for collage type cutting and pasting multiple images and creating new concept characters .
me and my colleagues here @ Dreamworks Animation use the tablet mainly for caricature and painting , so its art all the way .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good list! I'm going through them on the play store at the moment, though a few of them fall into the "fun" category, of being nice to play around and doodle on, but no use for any bigger projects. The problem is usually a matter of having no way to export the pictures as a usable file type
edit: layer paint seems interesting, if it ever makes a tablet version it could be awesome. I cant find an app called "drawing" though...
poope said:
Quill or Papyrus are the best drawing apps in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had heard of these before, but I had thought they were just for handwriting (that is what they themselves advertise as) though the quill app does seem to have a few nice drawing tools too. And it can save as a .pdf.. which would usually mean saving any vector information too! Interesting..
TVPaint
If you want a mind bogglingly advanced program, try signing up for the TVPaint beta
http://www.tvpaint.com/v2/content/article/downloads/openbeta.php
otherwise, Layerpaint is great and allows you to modify the resolution as well as export files for use in Photoshop
I made a thread a while back with a list of applications and links:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1846149&highlight=for+the+artists
Jonphinguyen7 said:
I made a thread a while back with a list of applications and links:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1846149&highlight=for+the+artists
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh thanks, I will take a look
I have also found out about an app called TouchDraw... vector drawing, seems to have been a popular one on the iPad store, and is released on android recently it seems....
But its unavailable in my country? I'm in the UK, so I'm guessing its for America only for some reason (As I doubt the developer has a specific grudge against the UK). I may try and find a way around this, so that I can test it out and review it for you guys.
I'll try and post up a review thread of all these apps somewhere soon, so people can find the apps that would be most useful to them (vectors/bitmap/fun/serious/etc)
Assuming this would be useful to anyone anyway, I know it would be to me
My daughter wants an app that's good for inking and has a blend and smudge tool, multiple brush modes, and layers. Do any of the apps out there fit this bill.
Life is better with root and our brilliant Devs
bulletwithbatwings said:
If you want a mind bogglingly advanced program, try signing up for the TVPaint beta
http://www.tvpaint.com/v2/content/article/downloads/openbeta.php
otherwise, Layerpaint is great and allows you to modify the resolution as well as export files for use in Photoshop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got this just now. Had an hour of playing around (and looking up windows help guides to figure some stuff out)....
Oh..Em..Gee.
This is an insane program. It is like a full windows animation program, on a tablet.
And strangely, it wouldnt work on any normal tablet, only ones that use a pen. Fingers would be way too thick to hit these menu buttons, and the contextual help only comes up on "mouse-overs".
Colour me impressed, this tool will be something awesome when it is released. There needs to be more like this! Programs that the iPad could *never* have (unless they release a non-capacitive screened iPad, which I doubt they would).
My daughter wants an app that's good for inking and has a blend and smudge tool, multiple brush modes, and layers. Do any of the apps out there fit this bill.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sketchbook pro has most, if not all, of these features. Not sure on the blend and smudge for the android version, I know that the iPad version did. Check it out in the Play store, it should list the features.
It is a very good program, and I have been told by an Autodesk employee that a new update that will add all sorts of nice new features, and will be coming out "soon". Though how soon "soon" is, is anyones guess.
Dont take my word for it though (I'd hate for you to spend money and then blame me if I was wrong!!!) so check out the Play listing for sketchbook pro. Make sure you end up buying the "Sketchbook Pro for Tablets" one though, if you do buy it.
Edit: There are blend modes using layers.... but no smudge tool in sketchbook. Not on android anyway, it has been on the iPad version for a long time though. I would *think* that it would get added in the upcoming update. Sorry I couldnt be more help, I haven't yet explored the colouring side things on android...
However, I hear good things about a program called "Infinite Painter", made by the same guy who does the Infinite Design app. The pictures I have seen done using it were very impressive, so I expect that might have smudge/blend tools. I would check that one out if I were you. It has a Note-specific version of the app, which is nice!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brakefield.painter&hl=en
This is a link to the Free version. Probably has adverts or limited saves or something. The paid version isnt expensive though.
I use sketchbook pro, best app for drawing I've used and easy translation from photoshop illustrator but slightly easier for stuff like adding layers.
Lacks the one thing it needs which is palm rejection which would make it a worthwhile purchase.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Samsungnooby said:
I use sketchbook pro, best app for drawing I've used and easy translation from photoshop illustrator but slightly easier for stuff like adding layers.
Lacks the one thing it needs which is palm rejection which would make it a worthwhile purchase.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the app I used on iPad, but trust me when I say the iPad version has a lot more tools in it. Don't know why they've been so slow with the android one.
An update on my infinite design findings... It's good. But it's missing some necessary tools, such as Path joining and being able to select-all. Also it seems you can't have your line be a different color to your fill...
Vector graphics users will hopefully understand what I mean lol. I miss my iDraw program on the iOS. It had everything. Maybe someday soon a program will catch up to it!
Although I still need to try that new TouchDraw program that's on Samsung apps... It looks promising, in theory.
Because people think of Apple users as "artists" and Android users as geeks.
Anyway, tvpaint looks ridiculously complex!
I once was quite good at using TV Paint (when it was called Mirage) but I forgot almost all of it. It's a very specific program. Right now I would kill for MyPaint on Note 10.1. I'm considering porting it - but it uses Python which is not available on Android AFAIK.
asdfuogh said:
Because people think of Apple users as "artists" and Android users as geeks.
Anyway, tvpaint looks ridiculously complex!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its probably generally quite true, but as an artist AND a geek, I am happy with my wacom-powered device. So they need to start making apps for it!
Saying that, I had an email from the developer of the vector app I use, and he has finished his other project for now and is back to work on his next update for this app. So things are moving forward!
I was just about to bite the bullet, and spend the £5.50 for the TouchDraw app from the samsung store when I noticed.... It is only compatible with Jellybean 4.1+.
Which hasnt been released for my device yet, officially.
Lame.
Might be time to root.
nirurin said:
I was just about to bite the bullet, and spend the £5.50 for the TouchDraw app from the samsung store when I noticed.... It is only compatible with Jellybean 4.1+.
Which hasnt been released for my device yet, officially.
Lame.
Might be time to root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash CM10 and never look back. (Until Jellybean suite comes at least)
Jonphinguyen7 said:
Flash CM10 and never look back. (Until Jellybean suite comes at least)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i root and flash cm 10 how do i get all the samsung apps back on my tab?
I am a student and use a note 10.1 and a note pro 12.2 for note taking. I use both tablets on a daily basis for several hours during class and at home. For note taking I mainly use LectureNotes and for pdf viewing I use the only good pdf viewer ebookdroid. I don't use any paper whatsoever.
I am getting increasingly frustrated with my setup, I have the feeling that it is holding me back and my workflow is not fluid/natural. I am mainly getting frustrated with LectureNotes and switching back and forth between lecturenotes for editing and ebookdroid for plain reading.
While LectureNotes is a great app, there are a few things that are really frustrating:
Pdfs get dumbed down into pictures/bitmaps: Loss of searchability, export of pdfs is images only, loss of table of contents, links and everything that makes pdf cool
Pdf import takes long because it has to render everything into images, import is not in background, i have to sit there and do nothing until its finished
Huge memory consumption. I have even increased my max memory per app to 768mb per app to avoid crashes.
Everything is in images
Large memory consumption
I write in portrait, if I rotate the device it gets pixelated
If I get a tablet with a different/higher resolution my previous notes are going to look bad
Menus are text only, takes long to find something. Ln has so many features, but I dont really want to bother to find them in all the menus
UI is in general slow and sluggish
notebook overview is slow
inserting a page can take a while
cant have multiple documents open in tabs (app would run out of memory anyways ...)
opening and closing of documents isn't instant
Ebookdroid is the perfect pdf viewer for me, it has tabs, lots of customization and is very fast. It just cant annotate pdfs.
Basically I am looking for a note taking app with the following feature set:
Simply fast and responsive
Based on vector graphics which will scale to any resolution
Instant pdf import and merging of notes taken in the application back into the pdf
Read only pdf viewing, so I dont have to switch to a pdf viewer just for viewing of pdfs
Navigating a document of several hundred pages should be easy and intuitive
Decent table of contents
quick/responsive overview with thumbnails
Multi device synchronous editing of documents. I don't want to have to wait 10 minutes for dropsync to synchronize my notes. (Specific to me)
Simple way to view documents on pc. Some tasks like creation of a table of contents, reording of pages and things that are quicker and easier with a mouse and keyboard can be done on a desktop client.
Can have multiple documents open at the same time
App in general should be user friendly and fun to use.
I have programmed in java and android before. I'm considering spending my holiday on writing a notetaking app. Atm I'm still evaluating the libraries, file formats, if I can pull it off, the time I will roughly need and if it's worth my time at all. The app will ofc be open source.
Is there any interest in a better note taking application or is it just me?
I don't believe there is an all in one solution that will do all you that you require in a single app.
But some basic suggestions.
I think Papyrus offers a lot of what your asking in the Note taking department, it's fast, vector based and has PDF import, I prefer 'Write' which is similar, but doesn't support .pdf. Perhaps you could send a message to some of the developers asking for some improvements, or features as they are often quite responsive.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.steadfastinnovation.android.projectpapyrus
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.styluslabs.write
You could also run two apps like Papyrus for notes and Ebookdroid or EzPDF for annotation in multiwindow mode as a workaround.
In terms of developing.
The new Android 'L' release apparently now has included a native PDF API function, so more apps will soon add PDF support I would imagine.
"New api class: PdfRenderer
This class enables rendering a PDF document. This class is not thread safe.
If you want to render a PDF, you create a renderer and for every page you want to render, you open the page, render it, and close the page. After you are done with rendering, you close the renderer. After the renderer is closed it should not be used anymore. Note that the pages are rendered one by one, i.e. you can have only a single page opened at any given time."
If you are serious about developing your own solution, perhaps check out the development of the open source Omni Notes, the code is already available, it's a simple but has a lot of potential the betas already have sketch mode implemented for notetaking with Spen, they could likely do with some other developer support for advanced functionality. Perhaps check with the dev in the Omni Notes thread.
Omni Notes:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...tmctr=(not provided)&__utmv=-&__utmk=38510752
Good Luck.
I think Papyrus would handle things like you want it!
It has PDF Import with noteability and Vektor based Drawing
But what I'm Missing are the Drawing features of LectureNotes like Diagrams, Arrows and so on... they are very basic in Papyrus!
Would be awesome if you decide to work on such a program!
I'm also a student who uses his Note 10.1 for notetaking!
If you want a tester, it would be cool if I can help you!
My Java is very basic, so in programming i wouldn't be a huge help. But studiyng the source code would be fun^^
Greets
Terrorhuhn
I have interest in a better note taking app!
I'm with you 100%. I use ezpdf but it isn't great. There is something wrong with every note taking app that makes it annoying.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
I'm all for a good note taking app and I'd pay good money for it. Papyrus is my go to app, but it has its flaws....main gripes being no easy way to navigate large PDF files and no stylus button support on Samsung ROMs
Terrorhuhn said:
what I'm Missing are the Drawing features of LectureNotes like Diagrams, Arrows and so on... they are very basic in Papyrus!
Would be awesome if you decide to work on such a program!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently I use also papyrus. But yes, I miss many other features, specially easy page navigation.
I am really interested with your idea!
I've been using the note 10.1 series for the past 1,5 years to study with and my conclusion while I was using the 2013 model has been that the only apps that were noteworthy were S-note and papyrus and lecturenotes.
On the 2014 model I eventually got bored of S-note and decided to look around:
-Papyrus's graphics were better then S-note on the 2013 model however with the 2014 model the graphics do not scale appropriately and well...it now looks pretty ugly.
-LectureNotes has the res. scaling, but not the beauty associated with the writing experience- although I've heard it provides nice functionality.
-Tried around 2 to 6 apps for writing, all with sucky writing experiences and expected functionality.
-INKredible: I recently stumbled across it (an iOS app port) in the playstore, it has the best writing experience that I've ever come across on android.
It has amazing graphics (vector based I assume) so you actually enjoy writing on a piece of glass. The app is free ,but provides in app purchases. You get the fountain pen for free.
The app itself is pretty barren when it comes to functionality (there are some bugs and you don't even get individual notebooks), but as the dev has stated they will include most of the missing functionality with their upcoming updates (they are focusing and the core necessities first). This app made me enjoy taking notes that much that I prep'd all of my exams on it in the past month (I manually managed my notebooks).
For me the common denominator for having a great note taking experience when I was still using my iPad was the writing experience, it didnt matter for me if an app was missing x,y,z functionality as long as I was stimulated to write more in the app for the sake of writing (cos of the awesome xp). INKredible seems to be very promising in that regard and with the promise of more functionality it'll put the current selection of available writing apps to shame. So support the dev's for more sweet development!
Regarding workflow:
I know its not on everyone's prioritylist/mind, but rooting will unlock the full potential of any device and this is no exception on the note 2014. Though you probably already know that.
The apps that i love, dont necessarily support splitscreen, so I tell them to.
The addition of GMD gestures, xposed modules (app settings, s-pen only, multiwindow plus, wanam) provide an overall enhancement of my workflow.
Coupled with Xluco's kernel Touchwiz feels more functional and it gives you the general impression that your device can keep up with your multitasking demands.
I've just finished finished with my exams so I thought I'd share my bottled-up experiences with this device, hence my long story
I hope some of my input helped you.
Also does anyone have little bubbles appearing underneath the glass (near the edges of the screen)?
I tried out Inkredible, looks promising, not sure how long it will take to become stable/usable.
I guess everyone has very different requirements for a notetaking application. For me management of notebooks is important. Atm I already have 200 notebooks only from 2 semesters. If an app doesn't provide an ability to create folders I have a big problem. Also usually I need multiple documents to be open at the same time. When I practice for exams I need my formularies, the exam and my notes. So I have the exam on my laptop, the formularies on the 10.1 and write on the 12.2. Dunno if anyone has used linux and is used to the concept of workspaces. That is something that I would like to see. I open up my "electronics exams" and have all my pdfs and notes in one place. Changing workspaces should change the opened documents on all my devices. I have 3 tablets and a laptop, I would like to be able to use them in conjunction with the least hassle. Most people will have a tablet and at least a phone and laptop. So some kind of advanced multi device support would be pretty cool. Im babbling a bit, I have tons of ideas, that would be really cool.
What is also important to me is that that the file format that the notetaking app uses should be a format that I can open on my pc and modify with other programs. If I would to write an app I would probably use svg as a format for drawings. There are many tools to edit svgs and they can be viewed in a browser.
I need an app that is not just a notetaking app, I need an app that helps me work with lots of documents. I need to read, edit, take notes and understand the topics. I have noticed especially the past semester that writing on tablets has actually held me back. I didn't really want to read through the notes I took. A real book is still a lot easier and quicker to navigate than notes I have taken on my tab.
{Diemex} said:
I tried out Inkredible, looks promising, not sure how long it will take to become stable/usable.
I guess everyone has very different requirements for a notetaking application. For me management of notebooks is important. Atm I already have 200 notebooks only from 2 semesters. If an app doesn't provide an ability to create folders I have a big problem. Also usually I need multiple documents to be open at the same time. When I practice for exams I need my formularies, the exam and my notes. So I have the exam on my laptop, the formularies on the 10.1 and write on the 12.2. Dunno if anyone has used linux and is used to the concept of workspaces. That is something that I would like to see. I open up my "electronics exams" and have all my pdfs and notes in one place. Changing workspaces should change the opened documents on all my devices. I have 3 tablets and a laptop, I would like to be able to use them in conjunction with the least hassle. Most people will have a tablet and at least a phone and laptop. So some kind of advanced multi device support would be pretty cool. Im babbling a bit, I have tons of ideas, that would be really cool.
What is also important to me is that that the file format that the notetaking app uses should be a format that I can open on my pc and modify with other programs. If I would to write an app I would probably use svg as a format for drawings. There are many tools to edit svgs and they can be viewed in a browser.
I need an app that is not just a notetaking app, I need an app that helps me work with lots of documents. I need to read, edit, take notes and understand the topics. I have noticed especially the past semester that writing on tablets has actually held me back. I didn't really want to read through the notes I took. A real book is still a lot easier and quicker to navigate than notes I have taken on my tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3 screens at a time for prep'ing? In my eyes that seams like overkill, for my last semester I just combined Wolfram ,Mathlab, Dolphin, 2xeBook readers(one for the problems and one for my theory/solutions) and INKredible/s-Note on my note 2014 via 3 way splitscreen and it worked like a charm. The bottom half for notes, the upper 2 halfs for for the rest, when I need to (fully)use one of the upper half apps I can just minimize one to make room for the other or swap apps within a 1/3 screen. Heck I even split youtube for the occasional online crashcourse.
This setup has proven very productive and I'd only use my laptop to convert word documents containing formulas too an android friendly pdf format.
If the multi-windowplus xPosed module had been updated to fully work on Kitkat I would've been able to have an additional layer of functionally through popup/floating windows.
I guess my only negative for working this way was that I had the occasional stiff neck once in a while, I'd then just relocate too my bed to resume my number crunching.
11 hours, that was my last screen-on-time running this setup, that's just...well..damn impressive:victory:.
I can imagine that you need all that functionality within one note app, but to be honest I think that's asking for to much for the Android platform. We'd need a pretty big dev team to be able to cram all that goodness in one smooth and hiccup free package...which I don't see happening anytime soon (iPad's note apps are draining to many of the dev's attention I guess).
@Vasishtha I'm not someone that uses multiwindow, the screen is already so damn small. I don't have a single textbook or sheet of paper, so I need at least two screens, otherwise I go crazy because of the limited space.
As you seemed to have used notetaking apps on the iPad, how do they compare to the Android ones? How do they even deal with the lack of a stylus? I couldn't imagine writing with a clunky stylus that covers up what I write and is unprecise. I have tried capacitive styluses a few years back and the writing experience was poor.
Seriously, why can't Notability be on Android as well. That was my go to on iOS.
Sent from my Note 3 via the Interwebs.
Don't you guys like Evernote?
{Diemex} said:
@Vasishtha I'm not someone that uses multiwindow, the screen is already so damn small. I don't have a single textbook or sheet of paper, so I need at least two screens, otherwise I go crazy because of the limited space.
As you seemed to have used notetaking apps on the iPad, how do they compare to the Android ones? How do they even deal with the lack of a stylus? I couldn't imagine writing with a clunky stylus that covers up what I write and is unprecise. I have tried capacitive styluses a few years back and the writing experience was poor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen resolution right now is high enough to make 4 way splitscreen a viable option for productivity purposes. Also the screen size for me is the perfect size, not to big for taking notes and not to small for reading. I also rely on no paper, even my graph-calc has been replaced.
Well the top 2-4 iOS apps are functionality wise on par with android apps (take for example : s-note vs notesplus/notability), but of course are more optimized.
1 app ,I believe, has a desktop variant for viewing/editing your notes.
However in the note taking experience department those top iOS apps blows away any android competition by large margins (not comparing styli here). And this has stayed the same since I switched over to android (bout 2 years ago) ,so imagine the margins now.
Writing with a cap stylus was surprisingly easy via an app's provided zoombox ,though it doesn't compare to the s-pen (later I was using the jot pro, but it wasn't perfect either).
This is why I know the iOS app port of notes plus (named INKredible on android) will achieve its full potential. And when it does, it'll put all the other apps to shame.
@dbeth Notes plus is already on android in the form of INKredible, the devs are hard at work in finalizing it and adding features to it. Stay tuned and support the devs in the meantime.
-Edit: My mistake, I thought you meant notes plus. Notability was also my favorite note taking app, but notes plus had it going on aswell
@lanwarrior Evernote's writing experience reminds me of s-note's ,stale and boring . There's no 'feel' to it.
But it does provide some nice functionality.
@Vasishtha
I'm trying to understand what sets an ipad notetaking apps apart from the android equivalents. To me the ipad ones just look like 'another' note taking app. Obviously there has to be a difference. What do you mean with 'feel'? Feel of the app in overall, responsiveness of the UI, responsiveness of the writing or just the feel of the scribblings as such, how they look after applying all the filters. What would an android app have to do differently to 'feel' good?
{Diemex} said:
@Vasishtha
I'm trying to understand what sets an ipad notetaking apps apart from the android equivalents. To me the ipad ones just look like 'another' note taking app. Obviously there has to be a difference. What do you mean with 'feel'? Feel of the app in overall, responsiveness of the UI, responsiveness of the writing or just the feel of the scribblings as such, how they look after applying all the filters. What would an android app have to do differently to 'feel' good?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well basically the result of beautiful vector graphics (with maybe some pressure sensitivity) in combination with an accurate natural flow of digital ink, in which you're under the impression of the experience and are almost not able to distinct the interaction between the pen and the ink drawn as a result of your precise hand movements from the real deal. The reduction of friction between the pentip and the glass surface also brings about an unique experience ,which the note 2014 offers, over writing on normal paper.
To me that feel is the foundation on which any note apps should be build on. And this is exactly what all android apps are missing (except inkredible).
Functions come and go, but you cannot replace/supplement the beauty of writing by cramming in more functionality.
We have not noted any recent upsets of Inkcredible.
Via my Note 3
I'm using Stylus Write for my business notes. very fast and quick to start taking notes. It also has linux client to open its files. Not as fancy as others but doew the job.
There is also Note Anywhere. Try it as well. All use vector graphics.
I tried Lecture Notes but seems slow to open and start a new note, and to save documents. T also uses bitmap graphics if I remember right.
---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------
Btw I don't use Snote as it will mean locking into Samsung Firmware.
Vasishtha said:
@lanwarrior Evernote's writing experience reminds me of s-note's ,stale and boring . There's no 'feel' to it.
But it does provide some nice functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that Evernote is a little bit "bland" on the handwriting feature, but I like the ability to sync it throughout all my devices - Note 3, Note 10.1 and Macs.
I also use Evernote heavily for many stuff: clipping website, taking picture, checklist, etc. So I have one solution for everything.
One thing I do WISH Evernote have is the ability to put handwriting in the text area. Right now the handwriting is in its own area separate than the text, even in the same note.
While writing an exam today I noticed how boxed in I feel when writing on a tablet. There is just a sense of freedom when writing on paper. I have a whole table of space to work with, I can make stacks of paper sheets, I have a stack with questions I have answered and a stack for questions I still have to look at. I make use of the whole table. When using a tablet I have to dedicate some brainpower just for using the tablet. I have to think if I want to annotate a document or just read it. Depending on that Ill use a different app. Because I have multiple devices they dont all have the same documents on them. So I take notes on the one tablet and then they havent synced to the other device yet. Taking notes in class doesnt feel natural. Im not going to go back to paper, because having digital notes has more advantages. It should be fixable with better apps, currently Im thinking about it. But lets be honest 10.1/12.2 inches is not really much screen space to work with. One would need some pretty awesome app to make one feel like one has more space...
Hi all,
I am really turn between the LG G3 and the NOTE 4
in my country, the price difference is about 250$
my "fear" regarding the NOTE 4 is that i wont really use the S PEN
I feel that its a cool thing to play with for about a week and then forget about it.
i saw lots of reviews and the main thing i saw were:
write phone numbers and name to put as a contact- seems like an action i do once a month. tops
send screen shots- nice but not an everyday task for me.
doodle- not relevant for me
all pen apps are for samsung apps and not for GMAIL and so...??
So.... am i missing something?
if any of you feel like sharing what you really do with the s-pen, especially as a student or at work (engineer) it will be really great.
My phone use profile consists off:
- i rarely use the cell for talking
-a lot of browsing- looking up for articles (as a student or at work)
-GMAIL
-WHATSAPP
-games: rarely
THANKS
dman230 said:
Hi all,
I am really turn between the LG G3 and the NOTE 4
in my country, the price difference is about 250$
my "fear" regarding the NOTE 4 is that i wont really use the S PEN
I feel that its a cool thing to play with for about a week and then forget about it.
i saw lots of reviews and the main thing i saw were:
write phone numbers and name to put as a contact- seems like an action i do once a month. tops
send screen shots- nice but not an everyday task for me.
doodle- not relevant for me
all pen apps are for samsung apps and not for GMAIL and so...??
So.... am i missing something?
if any of you feel like sharing what you really do with the s-pen, especially as a student or at work (engineer) it will be really great.
My phone use profile consists off:
- i rarely use the cell for talking
-a lot of browsing- looking up for articles (as a student or at work)
-GMAIL
-WHATSAPP
-games: rarely
THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It totally depends on you personally and what you use your device for.
Personally i use the S-Pen everyday - taking notes in meetings, i even use it for sketching and drawing. There's some pretty awesome drawing and painting apps available allowing me to be creative anytime and anywhere.
It also comes into it's own for usual OS tasks, selecting text, multiple documents, images, copying etc
I even sometimes just use it instead of my finger for usual stuff too, i dont really see the issue of people saying they would hardly use it, almost like it's some chore to take it out...
I feel that the S-Pen actually makes me use my device a lot more than i usually would! I don't think i could ever use a device without it going forward!
Cheers
Paul
paulrgod said:
It totally depends on you personally and what you use your device for.
Personally i use the S-Pen everyday - taking notes in meetings, i even use it for sketching and drawing. There's some pretty awesome drawing and painting apps available allowing me to be creative anytime and anywhere.
It also comes into it's own for usual OS tasks, selecting text, multiple documents, images, copying etc
I even sometimes just use it instead of my finger for usual stuff too, i dont really see the issue of people saying they would hardly use it, almost like it's some chore to take it out...
I feel that the S-Pen actually makes me use my device a lot more than i usually would! I don't think i could ever use a device without it going forward!
Cheers
Paul
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see lots of people being that positive about the S pen, Yet I own the note series since the beginning. each time a new generation came, I was interested by the Spen features. However I don't use it as much as I thought I would be.. I don't know why, maybe its cause I suck at drawing
As a student you could take notes from classes on the note4, ye I know, small screen. Backup everything at every save so you don't loose any page or note. But you have to try it yourself. If you have a budget dilemma then go for the g3.
I'm a visual manager for a retail store. I use my Note 4 and it's S pen daily. I'm constantly making To Do lists and writing notes to myself. So that's actually why I got my Note 4. I always have my phone with me in my pocket, so it's easier to take it out and jot down some things than to carry a pen and paper... which I'll eventually have to set down in order to do something and then leave it there until either someone else finds it or I end up running around the store looking for where I put it.
I also use the S pen to sketch up floor plans. I even take photos of an area and make notes on it.
"Move this here" (using a drawn arrow to point from the object to the new location)
"Get rid of this" (X something out)
"Paint this wall yellow. This one blue."
Etc
I also use the S pen when I'm eating my lunch and don't want to get the screen all dirty with my messy fingers lol.
The honest truth is that if you're going to use the S pen for JUST writing down phone numbers or something, then you won't be utilizing it's full potential. In that case, why spend the extra money?
I'd suggest only get the Note 4 if you truly do a lot of writing that doesn't have to be on paper (such as having to submit hand written notes to someone). If you need to write a lot, and have no issue with the notes being digital (or printed from a printer), then this phone is worth it.
I actually had an LG G Pro and was very happy with it, but the phone didn't have a stylis. I ended up making the decision to get the Note 4 and so far, I'm quite happy with my decision. It sure as heck beats carrying a pen and paper around!
Yep I use the S-pen maybe once every two days. I use it when I come across complicated websites (ability to use it like a mouse is good), and when I RDP into PC's as it gives mouse like accuracy compared to fat fingers.
Although I would actually give up the spen for a slightly smaller screen. I watch a lot of videos and browse the net a lot and the screen size is fantastic. But it's living with it which gets to me. It's just so big, having it in your pocket is extremely noticeable. Sitting down with tight pants is super uncomfortable and even just taking it out of your pocket you realise how big it is. I came from an S4, perhaps my next phone will be 5.5" or less. I still enjoy using my S4 (wifes phone now), and do miss the size of it. Hope that helps you.
i use the s-pen as a notebook. write all you want and hit print for hardcopy. you can actually print from the note 4 directly over wifi.
Note 4 caused me to remove all paper from my home office. I write all work notes in LectureNotes. I also use it as notepad after work - for new words, sentences, reminders and todos.
For university note taking I prefer a tablet with stylus (I use Note 10.1 for that - I wrote hundreds of pages on it).
Besides s-pen, Note4 is the only phone working with Gear VR (snapdragon versions so far)
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app
I use the S-Pen for everything. I rarely is my finger. The S-Pen is so much easier to use when typing, tapping on links on a web page, playing games, etc. And the screen doesn't get smudged up.
Thank you all!
this is exactly what i was looking for, if anyone else wants to add his experience, it will be great.
still not so sure why writing on a screen with a pen is more comfortable than typing a screen keyboard.
I guess I'll visit SAMSUNG store and play with it a bit
That little Wacom pen is THE reason why I only consider the Galaxy Note line as my smartphone of choice. It's that important.
Jot down notes in OneNote just like on my Tablet PCs (thank god they finally added ink support!), sketch things in Clover Paint, work as a mouse substitute for those pesky mouseover navigation bars on Web sites, maybe even serve as an external drawing tablet with the right software; it's like having a Tablet PC in the palm of my hand, just with Android instead of WIndows.
I admittedly don't use it on the keyboard. There's no reason for me to do so when the sheer width of the screen makes it easy for me to just use my fingers, especially compared to the old Galaxy S3 I was stuck with for the last two years. The Graffiti input panel (remember Palm OS?), on the other hand, would work really nicely with the pen if I decide to use that again.
dman230 said:
Thank you all!
this is exactly what i was looking for, if anyone else wants to add his experience, it will be great.
still not so sure why writing on a screen with a pen is more comfortable than typing a screen keyboard.
I guess I'll visit SAMSUNG store and play with it a bit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes its quicker to write a note than type. Sometimes you want to circle typet text to call it out.
Maybe you want to sketh a diagram. Pen is more accurate than finger.
Got a pdf file you want to write a note in? Or take a picture then circle something in the picture?
Just a few of many possibilities.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk
We all love the Nook but it's getting kind of old in the tooth.
Ok, the Glow4 (7.8") finally upped its game to 1 GB RAM, but that was kind of necessary.
It also added Bluetooth, something that could have been done cheaply and easily to earlier models.
Although I'm no fan of using the latest and greatest Android version, 4.4.2 is getting a bit old.
I understand that this is a tough business where every little part on the BOM (bill of materials) will hurt you.
Still, using single core processor is so yesterday. A Raspberry Pi Zero has quad core for $10-15.
To my mind a 6" 300 DPI reader is about optimal for flowing text reading.
For frequent or work PDF reading I'd want a 10" 300 DPI reader instead of high power reading glasses.
The 8" reader seems to fall uncomfortably in the middle.
The Kobos are Linux based, not Android.
Onyx has some decent choices in their (confusedly similar) product palette.
The older stuff has Android 4.4, the newer stuff Android 9.0
They have quad core and even octa core.
The "Poke 2" looks pretty nice for a 6", but why did they have to add the silver styling?
https://onyxboox.com/boox_poke2
(Oh, well, some sandpaper and a can of black spray paint would fix that.)
As I am in love with the Aard dictionary, my NST has been simply wonderful. But I understand Kobo no longer support an SD card. Where to now?
Same boat. I just got rid of my GLP BNRV510. Hated the light grey, small dictionary font. Also reading PDF seemed to convert those documents to oversized images. My NSTw/GL was awesome. I was going to upgrade to the new NGLP7.8 but the specs and issues with overheating are a turn off. Also I have read reviews stating that you can't side load books anymore? This may also apply to the GLP BNRV510 with the latest firmware update too. Which eReader now?
The Glow2 (BNRV510) is my main read.
If I have to read a PDF, I read it in landscape at two "chunks" a page.
I wouldn't think that B&N would try to lock down sideloads and I don't anticipate it would be hard to defeat.
I hope not but I understand the arguments for your question. To be honest NST as it was not my first choice (first choice was some Sony model) but I love it now. Last time I checked Kobo Aura looked nice but that was long ago and I do not know how things look now on the market.
Recently I was scrubbing my head around this issue. How I see the problem with NST? Well B&N locked out anything and everything humanly possible to prevent users doing something they did not wanted them to do. Devs unlock most of the obstacles out of protest or because of challenge ahead. As it runs ancient version of Android apps are scarce and disappearing fast. Writing an app dedicated for NST might be an act of love toward hardware base made by dedicated fanatic but we can assume there are not to many such individuals around today as Rennate said Nook is old.
So without further ado there are few roads as I see that could be taken if NST is to continue ahead.
1. Upgrades to Android version as far and much its hardware allows and using slightly more up to date apps for it (like CM11 approach running from SD card allows).
2. As Android is just an overlay on Linux leave it as is for B&N sake and good sleep but make some dual boot solution that will actually allow us to boot Linux (something in the line of Ubuntu for devices but not exactly so because as far as I remember that work only for versions of Android above 4) as that could give user maximum possible ability to customize it for his/her use.
3. Just say bye to B&N and build new NST OS from scratch be it Linux or another version of Android as that might be easier due to a clean slate/paper ahead and being less bound to a obstacles made by B&N.
4. It might be possible to create also dual profile on the current NST OS but given its restrictions that might not be of some great use - (B&N profile and user profile). What other forum members think about it?
P.S. I did not want to create separate thread about this and this thread seemed to fit in the general idea of talk about it. I hope Rennate wont mind.
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Renate NST said:
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am glad that you do not mind and find this discussion still within topic you started.
As always you hit problem in the head with much less words then me. I have always wondered what are the limits of hardware requirements needed (minimum) for some tasks/programs to run reliably. And we see that people test those boundaries each day.
You are correct that Android had given people app making opportunities. Sadly recent trend is to take away that from us on old devices as this one. I agree that "awww look its so shiny and buzzing" might look nice but regarding information value its pretty much crap (no way to put it politely sorry). Information is what the people using books/ebooks find to have some merit and it is in the form of text, graph, still picture mostly. I accept that sometimes video can be better tool for presenting certain information but general trend is not in that direction. Information in any shape and form I will accept gladly. Sad truth is that today we have to duck and fight against flash advertising and eye candy web UI of very little value and dubious quality.
I have some doubts what would be the most likely way to continue that is why I made that post. If it was my thread I would make a poll but even here I am willing to hear what is your opinion? Amongst four options I wrote up what would you most likely choose as a way forward? Also if possible please explain why.
1) I think doing an upgrade of Android version on an older device is a bunch of work and hardly justified.
2) I'm not a fan of dual boot. I like to keep things simple. Especially on my main reading device where I just want to pick it up and read.
Android "Linux" has quite a few different things than normal Linux. If you want Linux, get a Kobo.
3) Porting something new to the NST is a lot of work. See #1
4) I don't see the necessity of dividing profiles. I also don't understand what you're looking for.
Ok, I'm a fan of the NST, but it's had its day. The Glows have better resolution and backlight.
You get your choice of capacitive (Glow2) or IR (Glow3) touch screen.
The Android 4.4.2 on the Glows is not so bad yet. (The NST Android 2.1 makes life difficult.)
I think more memory, Bluetooth and a better processor would be on my wish list (in order).
Yes, the Glow4 has Bluetooth.
With enough effort you can fix any little technical thing in life that annoys you.
(I just spend this morning grinding and filing down a piece on my brand new guitar because I couldn't stand the design.)
It's a question of time and also how many people your effort would help.
I think an Onyx Boox is in my future, but I wish they didn't have so many silly models.
It's funny, I still use my original Nook Simple Touch, but a few times a year I find myself curious and looking to see if there's a perfect e-reader out yet for me to upgrade to. In the end it always just seems like nothing is really so much better that I really want to buy it, though.
In particular, page refreshes and overall responsiveness, which are the main things I'd like to be better, still just haven't improved enough on affordable e-readers, in my opinion. A backlight would be kinda cool, but hardly seems like a big deal since personally I'm still pretty used to reading real books, which obviously don't have built in lighting either. I guess a higher density screen might be nice, but I can't say I really notice it on my NST. Newer Android? Maybe, though I've really always been able to find an app that does what I need and works on the NST even with Android 2.1, so I'm not sure what the advantage would be.
I'm a pretty light user of my Nook, though, I guess. Most of the time I'm just reading epubs or sometimes pdfs (scientific papers, which are usually published as double columns, so they work just fine on the NST screen), plus the occasional word games or round of picross here and there. Someday I'm sure I'll upgrade to a new reader, but I think it's gonna be a while at the rate the technology has been improving.
You have stated all valid points here. I understand them and agree to most. Maybe I should explain in more details my points.
I use NST as is. Still restrictions imposed on user by B&N are frustrating sometimes. I mentioned upgrading Android on the device only because its own base is abandoning 2.1 and cutting of access to application made for this version. I have nothing against sideloading apps but if the source to such apps is going to dry out it might be a time for a change. Theoretically with slight upgrade of Linux kernel on it upgrade to gingerbread/honeycomb looks doable. Is it worth the effort is a valid question and that is exactly what I am asking for opinion here.
I am mostly using an OS from that Redmond firm. Although I want to learn and use Linux more I am certainly not looking into using it on e-reader despite it is possible to do on Kobo. Point of dual boot would be to leave B&N stuff as is and do on Linux what you like. At least on Linux you would not be that easily cutoff from apps you want/need. Again looks doable but I am not sure if it is recommendable. Reason for me to considering this is that more and more I read about trying to write/rewrite an apps for this device. Even I have started something similar to porting Linux program to Android and being frustrated by next to nill progress so far started to wonder am I doing it backward and should I run Linux on NST and program in the environment it was written for.
I am surprised Renate is not for whole new OS because the way I see the things she is already halfway there with all the apps she wrote for NST. . I know OS is another matter but let's face it it was half baked product to begin with. I mean Phone.apk really? On a device without sound support! And that app control volume? Man B&N really had shoestring budget for software developer and had us use port of some phone OS instead writing dedicated stuff.
I find multiple profile least advised on such low power device but I could see its merit here and there. I have a cousin which would be happy if she had kids profile on its phone as that would prevent paying triple digit roaming charges. NST most likely do not have the power to pull of multiple profiles although in theory something like that could be made even for Eclare in some crumbly way.
NST have resolution just above low printing and we love it. If some device could achieve 300dpi and have larger screen A4 size preferably with A5 being minimum that would be awesome. There are few device on market Remarkable and Sony with 10 and 13.3 inch screen but they cost still an arm and a leg. Although they shifted concept more toward notebook/sketchbook I have no problem with that but e-book support is next to nothing PDF only if I remember well. I am old and I like to use "pen" on "paper". I will look about other device mentioned. Aura H2O did caught my eye once to be honest.
Now I hope you can see my points more clearly. I find this discussion fruitful. Even if we do nothing we at least have fresh input from others to tickle little gray cells.
As far as upgrades go, upgrading to anything less than Lollipop (5.0) is pretty pointless.
That's already five years old as it is.
As bloat is a given, you're always going to need more memory and a faster processor.
If you want to learn about Linux a Raspberry Pi is certainly an economical solution.
For ~$15 you can get a Raspberry Pi ZeroW.
Android *nix deviates a lot from Linux but mostly in system and startup issues.
You can cross-compile C programs on your Windows box using the the Android NDK and run them in the command line on your Nook.
You won't have direct access to the screen unless you want to write to /dev/graphics/fb0 yourself.
If you don't want the Android layer running at that time you can just turn it on and off with "stop" and "start".
You might try to get into writing regular Java (or Kotlin, but don't get me going on that) applications.
There is something to be said for having your own app that runs on both your phone and your Nook.
There's a lot of convenience in having whatever you're looking for on whatever device you have at the moment.
I always though that backlights were pointless, but I've learned to love them.
If you have copier paper a lot of it is 92% reflective.
The white in eInk is a lot grayer than that.
I always keep my backlight on, but only to the point that it makes up for the gray tint to make it white.
Looking at it you really don't get the impression that it is glowing.
I have stumbled on web page of a project to port some 4+ Android version on NST which pretty much surprised me. Can not remember was it ICS or JB and hell Kitkat would be awesome for device that old. I believe that for that they must abandon B&N stuff almost completely unless they somehow ported it back from Glow versions? And counting in size expected I bet that they reformatted partitions on the device to make it happen. Now will that stick together or fall apart spontaneously is another question. I remember that on xda that somewhere was a thread about disabling OTA from B&N that could brake such upgrade but since they no longer support NST we should not worry about this. I wonder why did you said Lollipop as minimum choice? Do you consider it as minimum acceptable Android version or maximum that NST could possibly run?
As far as Linux go nah I will just play with old laptop instead. Although I caught myself looking to buy present for nephews in electronic realm. Arduino or Pie? aye there is the rub...
I didn't program anything reasonable for a long time. Therefore I am more than rusty in that field. Although I believesome Python or lua script I could manage if enough effort is put on my side.Julia look to me as a programming language that shows some promise to the future from old man perspective. Certainly none of those are useful to porting anything to Android and NST. For the moment I cut my appetite back and will look into how I can backup NST and make virtual image out of it to run it in Virtual box. There I hope to try to learn how things work on Android an play/apply changes in the sand boxed environment. If I break something no harm done just delete virtual drive and start again. I don't want to brick my only NST. Maybe I should buy used one for latter to as I see lot of UK used one have hit the market after B&N closed in UK.
I hate Java from reasons unwilling to disclose or as you said let's not start about that. Idea behind it is fine. Sadly it is lot to be desired on the implementation side. I totally understand that Java might give some benefits especially if we count in the already existing base of programs written on Java. Have a friend who learn and use Java but I personally never manage to overcome my personal detest of it.
Regarding backlight... I never saw Glow. Is there true backlight in like shining through panel? Or did they made something in line of those book lights for real books? I think that could work for capacitive screen but not so much so for IR like NST have. That should not glow much I think and could be regulated in illumination and colour.
The NST has 256M RAM, the Glow2/3 has 512M, the Glow4 has 1G, my $40 phone has 2G.
The $60 Kobo I have has only 256M, but it just runs Linux.
I couldn't be bothered to update my NST even if you handed me an image on a platter.
ebay has the Glow4 (open box) for $130.
I wouldn't even try to update that to a newer version, too much work.
Since this thread started the Boox Poke3 6" reader has come out.
It has Android 10, 8 CPUs, 2G RAM, Bluetooth and lists for $190.
That's a heck of a lot more of a device than the Glow3 for $120.
It also doesn't have the ugly styling of the Poke2.
https://www.boox.com/poke3/
Hmm, currently not in the US warehouse.
I'm a big fan of Arduino and RPi, but it gets complicated.
An adult friend bought an Arduino, hooked up an LCD and a thermometer, loaded the sketch.
It worked. They got bored. End of the story.
I don't know what the solution is. You make it too easy, they get bored. You make it too hard, they get frustrated.
I'm not a fan of the whole Arduino infrastructure and the Processing language. I prefer just AVR8. But I am "old skool".
I use RPi a lot, but I've only seen the desktop version about once.
I use headless and also digital signage without X Windows or desktop.
The Glow2 has single color edge lit backlight, The Glow3/4 uses dual color (blending) edge lit backlight.
If you hold them sighting down the face of the screen at a very low angle you can tell there are discreet LEDs.
(It's nothing you could ever see in normal usage.)
I checked Boox first time you mentioned it. Impressive progress I must say. Paradox is that as I understand newer Android versions are more optimized to be run even on underpowered devices but I agree that NST is both old and underpowered. Still even you mentioned that Kobo has same low memory but still running successfully Linux only environment. That speaks a lot in Linux favor regarding resource management and use. Yes there are slim chances someone cook something up for NST and even then people will just buy new device that is several times better. You wouldn't believe but B&N readers are hard to find here. I had to ask a friend to bring me the one from Middle East because it was available there so go figure.
Thanks for the opinion about Arduino vs RPi. I think you might be right. Kids nowadays will be interested to program more than to assemble something and experiment. Its a shame because I think they could learn more about physics by fiddling with Arduino.
Thanks for explaining me or rather confirming how light on Glow device is made. I am curious how they sorted out possible interference of lighting with IR touchscreen but I guess they somehow used non overlapping LEDs for those two separate things or passthrough IR only filters on IR detector side. In theory even some simple software calibration could work for that but I am also an "old skool" and wouldn't choose that as my way had I have gotten the task to build something of this kind. I might rig me some "lights" for old fashioned hardcopy books. Not that I can't buy it online but I want to engage my fingers a little.
If you haven't played with it yet, the Touch-1.0.apk (in the sig) works on the NST and will show you how/where the beams of IR go.
It can be helpful to see where dirt or distortion of the bezel is making it difficult for touches to be registered correctly.
Since the party seems to be going into a topic of what next best e-reader should be maybe we could exchange opinions about certain things available as in are they necessary or good enough at this moment. For example Boox is offering a model that can show ebooks as black and white or I presume as 4 color "print". As B&W it present it as 300dpi which is on par with printed books and man can not ask for more in my opinion. Alas when it present 4 color "print" it is meager 100dpi that could mean even NST just blows it out of scene. So my vote on color e-reader is still no. If it ever reach 150dpi it will become a thing to consider but right now it is still under acceptable performance from mine point of view.
Do you consider making notes on a device important? I am asking because I have mentioned ReMarkable and Sony DPT (which is gone now). Sony again made good device only to withdraw from the market at the end. While I understand that in the e-reader case as Amazon blow them out securing the better library this time I am afraid it is Sony's own fault. There exist few rebranded models of hardware Sony used with seemingly better software Fujitsu Quadreno and Mooink Pro. Mooink support PDF, epub, docs and text and offers a software for file conversion and DRM management. There are few annoying things. Almost none have microSD card option now. It is replaced with cloud storage or printing. And I personally like having pen but I find being robbed when they sell it separately and with replaceable tips because they made those to wear out. Cost is way to high despite larger screen.
I'm not clear on what you mean with "4 color".
The only thing that I can see on the website is a way to save your scribbles to an external file where you can set the color saved (but not viewed) on the device.
If you've ever seen a store white/red/black eInk shelf label update you'll know that that's only useful for things that change once a day.
I don't look too closely at the reader software itself since I'll probably just use my own.
I hate the sort of pictograph selection of small, medium, large font.
What if I want 5% larger than medium?
There's always a bit of conflict between SD card and waterproof.
I figure 32 GB fixed storage is large enough for me.
There's always a big tossup what is the correct mix of devices, phone, ereader, tablet, tablet with pen, tablet with keyboard, laptop, desktop?
I've never owned a personal laptop, never seen the sense (for me).
Rarely do I use a tablet or a phone with a BT keyboard when I want to do some sort of bulk inputting or fleshing out an idea or transcribing lyrics.
I kind of like digitizers, but never found a way that the utility exceeds the space they take.
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color. Yet is it worth buying?
Yes I understand your choice to use custom reader software. File support seems to have always been a problem and it just went worse from there.
Yes waterproof device shouldn't have SD card. I have mean more in a sense of having the ability to root, backup and thinker with the device.
SJT75 said:
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The product selection of Onyx or Boox or Onyx Boox has always confused the heck out of me.
Currently on https://www.boox.com/allproducts/ there is no indication of anything color.
Moreover, the "About Us" speaks of "We focus on E Ink ( ePaper) devices only. "
But I do remember seeing something previously on the website that spoke of color.