Related
Honestly!...
Why should I flash "googles" Android into my Bad Ass HD2???
No Joke! I need to know what all the fuss is about...
Why you ask? Well for a number of reasons. A search will tell you all of that as im sure this question has been asked over and over lol.
If you need to ask...
Seriously, why don't you just try it? You're not flashing anything. You won't lose any of your current information. I was enjoying the hacked versions of WinMo on my HD2, but now with Android I don't feel I need to ever go back.
alfredob1 said:
If you need to ask...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
If you need to ask you don't belong in this forum section. Please go back to WinMo.
If you need to ask you don't belong in this forum section. Please go back to WinMo.[/QUOTE]
lol
Let's be nice. Android is pretty limitless many things can be added. Winmo is sorta outdated. Right now winmo has a lot of community support but that's just not enough. Try it . Dont expect anything and see what you get.
Biggest problem I see is winmo users go into android expecting the same experience.
sent from my hd2.
jvillejoe said:
If you need to ask you don't belong in this forum section. Please go back to WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol[/QUOTE]
Funny one
topic: some things are better with android, some arent. I think the interesting fact is to chose the operating system YOU want to use.
You can compare it with the operating system situation on your PC. Some people want to use Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, MacOSX,.....
I think it's a perfectly legitimate question: Not everyone has the love of digital adventures, tweaking or driving someone with more knowledge up the wall we do.
Why not just say what you like about Android? Unless you're not sure....well?
I enjoy reconfiguring my phone. I must have flashed custom WinMo ROM's a hundred times and radios tens of times. Configuring script to put my applications back the way they were, testing the build for smooth operation, stability and features had been a thrill of mine...my hobby, I guess you'd say, since the HD stemming from late 2008.
Android just kind of picks up where Winmo left off. I'm using Elegancia ROM and have been for months. It works great with the Android offerings.
Is Android better? If that's your question, then in my opinion, WinMo is better than Android on the HD2 as of this writing, by Android on this device is catching up incredibly fast.
Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. If your interested enough to chance getting flamed, then you are most likely a candidate to give it a go.
3 simple reasons
1. faster internet browsing
-android have simply a faster browsing experience for me, faster than opera on wm anyday
2. market
-the abundance of customization and application in the android market vs the wm store is like comparing a walmart to a gas convience store for choice of app and avaibility of apps
3. utility
-android simply utilize our screen and hardware much more efficently than windows. try the foursquare app on windows, and then try the foursquare app on android, it's like comparing a dirt road to a 5 lane highway in terms of usability and speed
audscott said:
I think it's a perfectly legitimate question: Not everyone has the love of digital adventures, tweaking or driving someone with more knowledge up the wall we do.
Why not just say what you like about Android? Unless you're not sure....well?
I enjoy reconfiguring my phone. I must have flashed custom WinMo ROM's a hundred times and radios tens of times. Configuring script to put my applications back the way they were, testing the build for smooth operation, stability and features had been a thrill of mine...my hobby, I guess you'd say, since the HD stemming from late 2008.
Android just kind of picks up where Winmo left off. I'm using Elegancia ROM and have been for months. It works great with the Android offerings.
Is Android better? If that's your question, then in my opinion, WinMo is better than Android on the HD2 as of this writing, by Android on this device is catching up incredibly fast.
Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. If your interested enough to chance getting flamed, then you are most likely a candidate to give it a go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
perfectly put but still deserved a flame or two lol
infiniteecho said:
This.
If you need to ask you don't belong in this forum section. Please go back to WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO
To the OP: Exactly what everyone else said (apart from infiniteecho)
Try it and see. Nothing to lose except maybe half an hour of your time.
As said above its 'hoarses for coarses'. I wasnt expecting much from Android because Minmo did everything I needed +more, plus it looked ok visually IMHO using CHT etc.
But android just feels slicker somehow...plus I'm not yet missing any of the features that I thought I really loved in winmo. Just the fact of having a good Market is a BIG plus for some people (myself now included although I always thought I'd never care for thousands of mainly pointless apps )....Android is generally a LOT more finger friendly than any 6.5.x build..... the list goes on.
Personally I am becoming a convert FAST. I will almost deffinately switch soley to Android when a proper android rom is released.
Dual booting is great and its always nice to have the option of two O/S's, but I find myself wanting to see Winmo less and less everytime I wake my new Android phone from its beuty sleep I just dont love Winmo like I used too lol.
But the only way you will ever really know is if you try it for yourself go on you (probably) wont be dissapointed.
WinMo stock = sack of **** on the HD2, you have to hack and slash away until you eventually get something that works. Then, and only then can you continue to play around with it.
Android, out of the box it works, and your free to play around with it and make it your own. If it wasn't for Android my HD2 would have be sold.
The touch screen and general Windows Mobile performance just pissed me off, you could triple the power of the HD2 and you still wouldn't get a smooth, slick experience.
Phil
thatruth132 said:
perfectly put but still deserved a flame or two lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL,
hmmm... yeah true it was flameworthy I suppose
NATIVE FULL ADOBE FLASH 10.1! Only available in Android.
memin1857 said:
NATIVE FULL ADOBE FLASH 10.1! Only available in Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reason enough for anyone imo.
lonelykatana said:
Reason enough for anyone imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1+ on this one!
Thousands of apps straight from the marketplace, as opposed to a few hundred you have to get off the internet.
Oh, and flash.
Android is so good, why the hell did htc ship the hd2 with winmo?
Also hats off to the devs for making this possible, to use android on the best phone out there!
Good One.
infiniteecho said:
This.
If you need to ask you don't belong in this forum section. Please go back to WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please go back to WinMo...too funny.
i like android because of the limitless apps, you'll never need for anything again for a phone. the market was the main reason for me because most apps are free, now google maps include free navigation! windows mobile who? lol plus even with android being ported to our hd2 it out performs windows mobile, less freezes and errors. programmed to work better! internet browsing, smoother and faster. once u learn all the features and how to use widgets u will like wmo less and less. i never seen myself becoming a fan of android when i was solely against it when i had touch pro 2
Me??? Because WinMo is Sh*t. If I couldn't have loaded Android on this HD2... it would have been on Craigslist an hour after I got it.
Unless of course bloated, clunky, slow, crashing, lack luster garbage is someone's thing... l would advice them to stay away from Android.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
My new HD2 comes in tomorrow. ANd I am looking to take away the stock windows 6.5 and put either windows phone 7 or Andriod on it.
Now I come from using an iphone where i never used the ipod part of it. I did alot of gaming, and mostly organization for my job. It was a good phone book.
I dont use the internet much, so i just want to do basic browsing etc.
Im just not sure on which one is best. I have heard good things about windows 7
Now I am a mac guy, i have not had windows anything for over 10 years. So getting this windows system is it going to mess with my mac with sycing etc?
Just want to hear suggestioons. Thanks!
Apparently you can dual boot that thing
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Android for sure. Check out WP7 if we get the next update.
You will have to have Windows to flash MAGLDR or cLK which ever one you choose to go with as your bootloader. MAGLDR can boot Android and WP7, cLK can only boot Android. I suggest you have a look at the thread I linked seeing as you are running a MAC.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1039235
My question is this... what I am looking for in a phone. I dont want to have to worry about going form one OS to another.
I do not use the browser a lot. And I am not looking for many 3g apps. I am interested in apps in general.
What Im looking for is just a more organized phone. I loved my iphone for organization. I just hated how they did it (their folders suck).
I enjoy games, and i enjoy apps, dont get me wrong.
I dont facebook, i dont twitter. Mostly this phone will be used as a phone, and calendar and e-mail.
I played around with a windows 7 phone very briefly and LOVED the speed. I felt the layout would take a bit to get use to.
I never really played around with android ever. I have only seen video, and i like the fact that it has live wall paper.. other then that, I did not see anything that said use this!
I just want to make sure i get the OS that I want and is going to be best for me.
bnd10706 said:
My question is this... what I am looking for in a phone. I dont want to have to worry about going form one OS to another.
I do not use the browser a lot. And I am not looking for many 3g apps. I am interested in apps in general.
What Im looking for is just a more organized phone. I loved my iphone for organization. I just hated how they did it (their folders suck).
I enjoy games, and i enjoy apps, dont get me wrong.
I dont facebook, i dont twitter. Mostly this phone will be used as a phone, and calendar and e-mail.
I played around with a windows 7 phone very briefly and LOVED the speed. I felt the layout would take a bit to get use to.
I never really played around with android ever. I have only seen video, and i like the fact that it has live wall paper.. other then that, I did not see anything that said use this!
I just want to make sure i get the OS that I want and is going to be best for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best thing to do is just keep the Windows Mobile and dual boot Android from your SD card to getca good feel for how Android is and if you like it or not. Go to the HD2 Android SD development forums and checkout some of the SD cardcAndroid build. Also seens you mentioned games, Android has full flash support so that opens the gaming up a bit for Android. If you don't like Android you can then flash HSPL, MAGLDR, and then a WP7 ROM. Remember you will have to contact Microsoft to get a activation code to activate your live/cloud services, this includes the app market. Go to the HD2 Windows Phone 7 Q&A and General forums there are plenty of threads there on how to do this, it will not cost you a thing.
If you did like Android though you Can just flash Android to NAND and not WP7.
Now that is what is great about having a HTC HD2!!!!
bnd10706 said:
I dont facebook, i dont twitter. Mostly this phone will be used as a phone, and calendar and e-mail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion, you should go for WM6.5 or WP7.
Android is all eye candy and nonsense. Sure it can perform serious functions as well but if you want a hard working, organised OS then Microsoft is your friend.
Either that or a blackberry, but I couldn't condone that sort of behavior .......
IMO / JM2C etc....etc....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I just edited my last message cause the GD productive text on Android. I had meant for my blue text to say "Now that is" not "Now that OS" made it mean something totally different. I absolutely hate the productive text on Android.
To each their own
You would need to BootCamp your Mac to get Windows on a partition to get Stuff Flashed
IMO Android should be the first OS to try out since you never tried it and its a lot easier to setup compared to WP7... Even thou WP7 is simplified the fact that their are bugs in WP7 like SDcard incompatibility and random restarts, there are some Android ROMS that are amazingly stable and you don't have to worry about activation to get the marketplace working
I had Gingerbread on my HD2 and it worked perfectly.. yesterday I switched back to WP7 and at first it would restart after a couple seconds but I somehow managed to get it stable and no more restarts
Sure you can stick with WM6.5 but the fact that you can load up an entire different OS that's newer will have you going crazy and in the end WM and your HD2 will part ways
Im torn between Android and WP7 but since everything is backed up in both Googles and Windows Live Servers I don't have to worry about loosing anything.. Just a matter of flashing and re-syncing
If you are into organization I will try a custom windows mobile Rom. It seems like Android and wp7 is based around entertainment. The office apps suck on wp7 and android.
Sent from my android HD2 using XDA Premium App
Personaly both fit your criteria. However android has a lot more apps than WP7. However you might also like the simplicity and fluidity of WP7. So my suggestion is to simply try each OS. Truthfully do you even really need to get your phone all organized just yet? Will a few days of testing really hurt your life? If not, then just take a few days to test both android and WP7.
To be completely honest with anyone who buys an hd2 just to run one operating system in my mind the big question, WHY?
the hd2 can dual boot perfectly, the hd2 has evolved into the tinker tailors mixenmatious ultimate device.
If you only want Android buy a hd desire.
If you only want wp7 buy an hd7
But if you want a device that can run them all and more, but never quite 100%, where you have to put lots of hours, time and patient into testing constantly changing tweaking and reading, asking questions, failing, crashing, frustration, confusion but overall HUGE interaction with a device. Then you came to the right device the hd2
Sent from my HTC HD2
Also an iPhone owner here and someone who cares a lot about organization, so perhaps I could give some decent advice.
To start -- I hate Windows Phone 7. Well, perhaps 'hate' is a bit too strong. Maybe it's better to say I really, really dislike it.
The best part about it is that it's ridiculously fast and smooth (maybe even moreso than iOS) and it's a very stylish OS, but many other things are fairly poor. The 'Hubs' style of UI interface doesn't seem to work so well (things got cluttered fast). Furthermore, the Marketplace is terrible; small selection with rather expensive apps and searching through the thing is pretty unintuitive.
There's also a bunch of little annoyances that got on my nerves quickly, such as the 'Resuming' nonsense that ends up forcing me to start over in whatever app I'm using or the fact that IE only allows me to have six tabs or the fact that there's no battery percentage (and no third party app that can access the info either!). Little things like that.
To summarize my feelings, WP7 resembles Android a lot. It sucks in the beginning, but it'll probably get better later on. If you were to ask me, I would wholly recommend installing Android over WP7; Android's Market is pretty horrible compare to iOS, but overall, it's worlds better than WP7.
It also helps that Android doesn't require some sort of special microSD like WP7.
P.S. Regarding potential issues with Mac...I honestly can't offer any advice here. I own a MacBook, but I always do these kind of things on my Windows desktop.
rhydrag83 said:
If you are into organization I will try a custom windows mobile Rom. It seems like Android and wp7 is based around entertainment. The office apps suck on wp7 and android.
Sent from my android HD2 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Agree ......, I am using Android as it looks good and feels good to use android and lot of apps and games ... win phone 7 good but there are bugs knw like camera , no copy paste , and some other stuff that gives me a headache but win phone 7 is much faster than other roms ( for me)
for me Windows mobile 6.5 roms are good but boring
Well, im going to start with trying Android I guess for one week. then Try WP7 for one week. I guess thats the only way... I can see both sides.. but I will only know once i tried it.
If you are a person who uses mostly phone calls and texts, and data and Facebook, then there is not much problem with Windows Phone 7, but you cannot expect anything more from it. Yet to get proper messengers, tethering support, battery questionable.
Whereas Android will play a good part till the latter is developed in the coming days. Android will offer all the functionality and use your HD2 to full potential.
after selling my iphone, i've had this hd2 for 3 months. i customized it as much as possible. i thought i was getting the best phone in the world - i was dead wrong. the hd2 falls WAY short of my expectations. for one, the battery is horrible - lasts 1 day with some use. on the iphone, my batt lasted 2 days with lots of use.
another issue was scrolling, like scrolling through tons of albums. the albums would have to refresh as you scrolled - very slow. on the iphone, the ablums appeared as fast as you scroll. and the menu and typing was not as responsive as the iphone.
but what clinched it for me was the lack of important apps. for some unknown reason, theres no nyc subway map for the hd2 - thats unbelievable!! why is that?? on the iphone, theres literally DOZENS of them.
i know i'm comparing the hd2 to the iphone. but when youre justified in trashing a product, you got no choice but to compare it to something else.
i was thinking about installing android on it.. but android has a windows '95 look to it. the icons look so old and doesnt look as modern as other phone o/ses.
anyway, i'm highly disappointed in the hd2. the only good thing about it is the screen size, thats all. i'm finally selling it - good riddance.
my phone of choice now is the iphone 4... cant wait to get it and feel free again!!!
koolxx said:
after selling my iphone, i've had this hd2 for 3 months. i customized it as much as possible. i thought i was getting the best phone in the world - i was dead wrong. the hd2 falls WAY short of my expectations. for one, the battery is horrible - lasts 1 day with some use. on the iphone, my batt lasted 2 days with lots of use.
another issue was scrolling, like scrolling through tons of albums. the albums would have to refresh as you scrolled - very slow. on the iphone, the ablums appeared as fast as you scroll. and the menu and typing was not as responsive as the iphone.
but what clinched it for me was the lack of important apps. for some unknown reason, theres no nyc subway map for the hd2 - thats unbelievable!! why is that?? on the iphone, theres literally DOZENS of them.
i know i'm comparing the hd2 to the iphone. but when youre justified in trashing a product, you got no choice but to compare it to something else.
i was thinking about installing android on it.. but android has a windows '95 look to it. the icons look so old and doesnt look as modern as other phone o/ses.
anyway, i'm highly disappointed in the hd2. the only good thing about it is the screen size, thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your frustrations are the result of your ignorance, not the phone.
Obviously you are unware that Android has literally hundreds of themes that change the way the icons look. You can also add/change widgets and pretty much anything about your UI. You can also tweak settings to get better battery life. You have no clue how to operate Android, I'd suggest you learn before dismissing it.
As far as WM6.5 is concerned, it is an outdated OS with a lack of apps. It has some awesome features, but apps is not one of them. Android will have MORE apps all around than iOS in about 2 months at the current rate and already has more free apps.
You also dismiss WP7, which has growing development and will give you that modern UI you are looking for, if you think Android's icons are anachronistic you should abhor iOS icons, check out Metro UI, you'll love it.
If you are too lazy to learn how to fully utilize this amazing machine, then I suggest you sell your HD2 and go get an iPhone.
koolxx said:
i know i'm comparing the hd2 to the iphone. but when youre justified in trashing a product, you got no choice but to compare it to something else.
i was thinking about installing android on it.. but android has a windows '95 look to it. the icons look so old and doesnt look as modern as other phone o/ses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know they say not to feed the trolls but... Ha.. HAHA.. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That made my DAY...
orangekid said:
Your frustrations are the result of your ignorance, not the phone.
Obviously you are unware that Android has literally hundreds of themes that change the way the icons look. You can also add/change widgets and pretty much anything about your UI. You can also tweak settings to get better battery life. You have no clue how to operate Android, I'd suggest you learn before dismissing it.
As far as WM6.5 is concerned, it is an outdated OS with a lack of apps. It has some awesome features, but apps is not one of them. Android will have MORE apps all around than iOS in about 2 months at the current rate and already has more free apps.
You also dismiss WP7, which has growing development and will give you that modern UI you are looking for, if you think Android's icons are anachronistic you should abhor iOS icons, check out Metro UI, you'll love it.
If you are too lazy to learn how to fully utilize this amazing machine, then I suggest you sell your HD2 and go get an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
calling someone a name here is a violation of forum rules. dont do it again. its so easy to mock someone over the net. but you wouldnt dare say that to my face... and you know it.
karendar said:
I know they say not to feed the trolls but... Ha.. HAHA.. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That made my DAY...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the only troll here is you, for inciting such activity. and your immature behavior proves it.
alright, i'm going to give my hd2 one more chance.. i'll install android.. but on 2 conditions:
1) that i install an android o/s that has excellent batt life and thats fast.
2) that i install a skin for it that looks like stock 6.5.
if any SERIOUS (note the quotes) members here want to recommend any versions based on these conditions, i will install it.
koolxx said:
after selling my iphone, i've had this hd2 for 3 months. i customized it as much as possible. i thought i was getting the best phone in the world - i was dead wrong. the hd2 falls WAY short of my expectations. for one, the battery is horrible - lasts 1 day with some use. on the iphone, my batt lasted 2 days with lots of use.
another issue was scrolling, like scrolling through tons of albums. the albums would have to refresh as you scrolled - very slow. on the iphone, the ablums appeared as fast as you scroll. and the menu and typing was not as responsive as the iphone.
but what clinched it for me was the lack of important apps. for some unknown reason, theres no nyc subway map for the hd2 - thats unbelievable!! why is that?? on the iphone, theres literally DOZENS of them.
i know i'm comparing the hd2 to the iphone. but when youre justified in trashing a product, you got no choice but to compare it to something else.
i was thinking about installing android on it.. but android has a windows '95 look to it. the icons look so old and doesnt look as modern as other phone o/ses.
anyway, i'm highly disappointed in the hd2. the only good thing about it is the screen size, thats all. i'm finally selling it - good riddance.
my phone of choice now is the iphone 4... cant wait to get it and feel free again!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just for grins, I looked up subway software for WM, found this in a few seconds:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-tag-subway.html
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-visitor-guide-subway-new-york-weekend-2-06a.html
And those are freeware. I'm not sure you looked in the right places.
EDIT: There were also some WP7 titles, but I was looking at WM.
As to scrolling through titles, yes the Iphone will be better there, it is a consumer phone not a pocket PC.
koolxx said:
calling someone a name here is a violation of forum rules. dont do it again. its so easy to mock someone over the net. but you wouldnt dare say that to my face... and you know it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be quite honest, he did not even call you a name . He said you were ignorant. Thats a verb not a noun. Either way, I agree with him wholeheartedly.
This phone is not like any other (not any I know of in this exact replica), it comes with Windows Mobile, but yet you can put almost anything you want on it OTHER than Windows Mobile. Know ANY phone that can do that? No Android phone will run Windows Mobile (not that I think anyone would want to - just saying).
Not to re-state what orange had stated but, you can try Android for FREE. You can try Ubuntu ON YOUR PHONE, for FREE. You can TRY Windows Phone 7, for FREE. Dont have to 'upgrade' (pay 100's) just to TRY the NEW Windows OS...makes sense to me .
Can you do that with the iPhone? No, impossible. You can get a jailbreak that will do what exactly? Get you some apps and wallpapers that you cant do/get normally. How fun.
Not putting down the iphone at all, just stating the FACTS.
Someone once said, ohhh android has all junk apps. For 1, you have to look. For 2, more are free than paid. For 3, iOs you have to pay for what, 75% of what you want to use? Android you can purchase plenty too, and get great apps, but some really nice ones for free where on ios you have to pay...nice
Please do try Android before you dismiss the wonderful phone. Windows Mobile I will agree, was absolutely junk on this phone, I honestly changed (back in the android-sd days where we were booting android from WINDOWS on our SD card. - how awesome) as soon as I could. Never went back. Now, its an Android phone, TRY IT OUT.
---------
As for the best android? Well, TBH, its different for everyone. Its a WHOLE NEW GAME. Just look at the android section under the HD2 here. Its LOADED with various ROMS, which is WHY ITS AWESOME! You have so many options its crazy. Windows Mobile, you had almost none (various themes, about it). You can almost never brick this phone. READ READ READ ALL the Noob guides, they will point you in the right direction. Flashing an updated radio, bootloader, then rom. Once you figure it out, anytime you want to 'try' something new, it takes all of 10 min., 5 to download the ROM, 5 min for it to install. Thats it.
My bad for long post. Just trying to push ya back over the fence. Its not a bad phone by any means, its a piece of [excellent] hardware (very good for multitasking). Try some new software.
Your right the hd2 is crap. I have a iPhone 3g 8gb in great condition. Jail broken with old fully flashable firmware. Trade ya for your hd2.
“We are legion,”
theslam08 said:
To be quite honest, he did not even call you a name . He said you were ignorant. Thats a verb not a noun. Either way, I agree with him wholeheartedly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think thats the end of that argument because I doubt he can come back from facts.
I have no idea how a iphone kid can come here and bash the HD2. Then again I actually wont go into any of that since you guys already nailed it right on the head.
Love this phone and even though I am still on winmo I am still in love with it.....down the road I'll go droid HD2.
koolxx said:
calling someone a name here is a violation of forum rules. dont do it again. its so easy to mock someone over the net. but you wouldnt dare say that to my face... and you know it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your a TIT!
Please PM me and ill give you my home address, You can come round and I'll say worse directly to your face
If you haven't got the intelligence to realise you are ignorant and are missing out on an amazing device I pitty you very much.
It's not the phone's fault. It's yours for trading your blessed iPhone for that sucky HD2. I mean really? You traded a holy iPhone for some piece for garbage? Man, that's the stupidest thing I've ever read.
I mean like dude, don't you know the iPhone is the absolutely best phone you can get? Whatever the version may be. I mean the 1st gen iPhone blows the galaxy s 2 any day.
Anyways enough with my trolling. xD
It is your fault really, you should recognize your needs and desires first. Judging from your personality, attitude, experiences and desires, the iPhone is obviously your device. You don't want to customize, you don't want to hack, so obviously you want a device just to use. So in other words, why the hell did you get a device that wasn't meant for you? Next time, think about what you want before you get it.
From what I've read it's an excellent phone if you're willing to go through the motions and change it. I'm not sure what you have done with it but I'm sure if you had the time you could change it to how you want it.
However, the beauty of the iPhone ( and it's biggest problem) is that it's so controlled that you can have a perfectly consistent experience and it takes little effort (though I would argue the same with WP7, though it has fewer apps).
However if you really do not want it I'm curious as to what kind of HD2 you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.
WOW!!! you are going to sell out ur hd2!!! ... i cant believe it ..i have made up my mind to never sell it (it will like go into the world phone museum cuz this is the device is the starting point of all these new ones) this is the best phone i have ever used cuz it is higly customizable (except for on winmo) ..i am currently on android (NAND) as far as u r searching for a nice rom i would suggest hyperdroid cm7 ...its a pitty that u want to sell ur hd2!!
EDIT:: n what u saying huge battery drain... i just loose 5% in 7 hours of standby and my phone lasts full 1.5 days with heavy usage
Also, if you have problems with the battery life you can get a larger battery ( they do exist and you can get them for reasonable prices on eBay and the like), so you do have options available.
I would suggest to save you the potential of regret to at least try other options like Android ( on which there are a number of excellent launchers that can suit your needs well) and WP7 ( which I personally think has an exquisite UI) on your phone.
siddharth singh said:
WOW!!! you are going to sell out ur hd2!!! ... i cant believe it ..i have made up my mind to never sell it (it will like go into the world phone museum cuz this is the device is the starting point of all these new ones) this is the best phone i have ever used cuz it is higly customizable (except for on winmo) ..i am currently on android (NAND) as far as u r searching for a nice rom i would suggest hyperdroid cm7 ...its a pitty that u want to sell ur hd2!!
EDIT:: n what u saying huge battery drain... i just loose 5% in 7 hours of standby and my phone lasts full 1.5 days with heavy usage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey...can you please tell me...what ROM you have on your HD2 ? Android NAND ?
stevedebi said:
Just for grins, I looked up subway software for WM, found this in a few seconds:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-tag-subway.html
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-visitor-guide-subway-new-york-weekend-2-06a.html
And those are freeware. I'm not sure you looked in the right places.
EDIT: There were also some WP7 titles, but I was looking at WM.
As to scrolling through titles, yes the Iphone will be better there, it is a consumer phone not a pocket PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, stevedebi. thanks for replying. i checked out the apps a while ago. theyre old as hell. but i was checking out some android apps. heres one i checked out:
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-episode6-android-nycsubwaymap-wE.aspx
it looks modern. i'll be installing android just for the hell of it and download some apps and judge for myself. so lets see.
theslam08 said:
To be quite honest, he did not even call you a name . He said you were ignorant. Thats a verb not a noun. Either way, I agree with him wholeheartedly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
'ignorant' is a verb??? looks like someone here needs english lessons..try learning english before correcting someone who was born in england. and why are you defending him?? you sound interested.
This phone is not like any other (not any I know of in this exact replica), it comes with Windows Mobile, but yet you can put almost anything you want on it OTHER than Windows Mobile. Know ANY phone that can do that? No Android phone will run Windows Mobile (not that I think anyone would want to - just saying).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh??
Someone once said, ohhh android has all junk apps. For 1, you have to look. For 2, more are free than paid. For 3, iOs you have to pay for what, 75% of what you want to use? Android you can purchase plenty too, and get great apps, but some really nice ones for free where on ios you have to pay...nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats funny, when i had my iphone i never paid a penny for my apps... i got them off the net.
Please do try Android before you dismiss the wonderful phone. Windows Mobile I will agree, was absolutely junk on this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait a minute... if you agree with me about the windows mobile o/s, then why are you bashing me? i dont get it, but to each their own.
My bad for long post. Just trying to push ya back over the fence. Its not a bad phone by any means, its a piece of [excellent] hardware (very good for multitasking). Try some new software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and thats why i've requested advice on android builds before i sell off my hd2.
tageeboy said:
Your right the hd2 is crap. I have a iPhone 3g 8gb in great condition. Jail broken with old fully flashable firmware. Trade ya for your hd2.
“We are legion,”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
come on, grow up.
grifter024 said:
I think thats the end of that argument because I doubt he can come back from facts.
I have no idea how a iphone kid can come here and bash the HD2. Then again I actually wont go into any of that since you guys already nailed it right on the head.
Love this phone and even though I am still on winmo I am still in love with it.....down the road I'll go droid HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think grifter has a new fan (or possibly more than that.. ha ha), but again, to each their own.
i have no idea how an hd2 nerd can come here and bash the number one phone in the world. but then again, i wont go into that since you guys agree that windows mobile is crap.. but he stilll thinks it isnt for some fanboy reason. gotta feel sorry for the runt.
i love the iphone.. its fast and smooth.. i'll install droid tomorrow and judge it for myself.
First off, I'd like to thank everyone on XDA trying to make modifications to the Atrix. You all have done an exceptional job.
I've owned an Atrix since Early March, upgrading from an iPhone 3G. When I got it, I was very excited at the new possibilities Android gave me for customizing my phone, increasing performance, etc. By the way, this upgrade is a huge step up from my iPhone 3G in terms of performance.
But.
It seems like Android as a whole doesn't really feel like the smartphone experience I hoped for. Sure, I have a laptop dock, it runs most Linux programs compiled for ARM, people are impressed. But the user interface on the phone, the errant bugs on stock builds (I'm using Alien, so no exactly stock, but it also has its downsides), and the apps on the Android Market just don't feel as nice as iOS or Windows Phone 7 (those are the only two mobile OSes I've used). It probably has a lot to do with the large manufacturer control over software instead of Google, the lack of a lot of hardware acceleration in most applications and the user interface (for now, I know!), and overall lack of programming aptitude of some Android developers (There are some damn good apps on Android compared to Apple's Appstore too, but I'm going to have to give this trophy to iOS, and inherently Objective-C).
Granted, I haven't tried CM7 or MIUI largely due to me needing webtop mode for classes (has anyone tried porting that to CM7 yet?). Yes, Ice Cream Sandwich will probably be a hell of a lot better than pretty much any OS out there right now.
I'm very tired right now so this may be long-winded, but in my opinion, it seems like Google and Android phone manufacturers are behind the game right now. Performance can get abysmal if you're on stock, but if you've unlocked your bootloader and installed a fresh ROM, the experience can get a little wacked.
Thoughts? Comments? Rebuttals? I'm all for it.
paravorheim said:
First off, I'd like to thank everyone on XDA trying to make modifications to the Atrix. You all have done an exceptional job.
I've owned an Atrix since Early March, upgrading from an iPhone 3G. When I got it, I was very excited at the new possibilities Android gave me for customizing my phone, increasing performance, etc. By the way, this upgrade is a huge step up from my iPhone 3G in terms of performance.
But.
It seems like Android as a whole doesn't really feel like the smartphone experience I hoped for. Sure, I have a laptop dock, it runs most Linux programs compiled for ARM, people are impressed. But the user interface on the phone, the errant bugs on stock builds (I'm using Alien, so no exactly stock, but it also has its downsides), and the apps on the Android Market just don't feel as nice as iOS or Windows Phone 7 (those are the only two mobile OSes I've used). It probably has a lot to do with the large manufacturer control over software instead of Google, the lack of a lot of hardware acceleration in most applications and the user interface (for now, I know!), and overall lack of programming aptitude of some Android developers (There are some damn good apps on Android compared to Apple's Appstore too, but I'm going to have to give this trophy to iOS, and inherently Objective-C).
Granted, I haven't tried CM7 or MIUI largely due to me needing webtop mode for classes (has anyone tried porting that to CM7 yet?). Yes, Ice Cream Sandwich will probably be a hell of a lot better than pretty much any OS out there right now.
I'm very tired right now so this may be long-winded, but in my opinion, it seems like Google and Android phone manufacturers are behind the game right now. Performance can get abysmal if you're on stock, but if you've unlocked your bootloader and installed a fresh ROM, the experience can get a little wacked.
Thoughts? Comments? Rebuttals? I'm all for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I respect ur opinion. What bugs and what app problems are u facing?
Because I had the Alien Rom for more than a month and it was smooth as butter and very responsive.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
paravorheim said:
In my opinion, it seems like Google and Android phone manufacturers are behind the game right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my thoughts exactly. After going through 5 different Android phones in the last year and then using to iOS when I bought an iPad, it really changed my opinion on Android.
I think Android is a little rough around the edges and could definitely use some improvement.
Personally, I'm jumping ship for the next iPhone. *waits for angry posts*
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
TheBassman369 said:
This is my thoughts exactly. After going through 5 different Android phones in the last year and then using to iOS when I bought an iPad, it really changed my opinion on Android.
I think Android is a little rough around the edges and could definitely use some improvement.
Personally, I'm jumping ship for the next iPhone. *waits for angry posts*
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I seriously don't like about u iOS lovers. U talk in all the vague terms. Gives a perception that u don't know what u r talking about. Will u ever mention exactly what r ur problems with Android ? A healthy insight would be great. And why not post on xda if u r facing some problems or glitches.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
I don't know. I use android for my personal use. I almost make a living off iPhones.
I'll say one thing
the majority of the dev scene for Apple REVOLVES around jailbreaking and unlocking [and trickles down into free apps] that's pretty much it, yes, there's a lot of homebrew and a lot of work done with apple, but the real hard work goes into unlocking
the majority of the dev scene for Android revolves around improving the core use of the OS and also fixing or tweaking the way hardware is used [such as unlocking frequency bands, fm radio, camera resolutions, battery tweaks, processor or GPU OC/UV, etc]
that should tell you what it comes down to.
Im excited for cm7... but I need webtop!!! So torn. I know the devs are working on a port because cm7 requires stock functionality (webtop and fingerprint scanner) to get official status
Sent from my alien
I think my Atrix out of the box is great compared to my Captivate I had...so..it might have something to do with the early builds and how you have your phone set up...that's giving you problems
Mac
I would like to understand why so many people say they "need" webtop, and why so many cannot live without it on this phone. Somebody please answer this. I am pretty sure everyone lived perfectly fine before the Atrix came along, so why the sudden requirement for school and work to "need" webtop?
If you came from the iPhone, you certainly did not have webtop before.
TheBassman369 said:
This is my thoughts exactly. After going through 5 different Android phones in the last year and then using to iOS when I bought an iPad, it really changed my opinion on Android.
I think Android is a little rough around the edges and could definitely use some improvement.
Personally, I'm jumping ship for the next iPhone. *waits for angry posts*
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This really isn't geared at you per say, but to anyone in the market for either an iPhone vs Android I'd say wait till the fall when you can compare iP5 against ICS.
If ICS is all that, then a lot of Atrix users will be "very happy" to put it mildly (and so will their wallets)...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
Here's what it breaks down into.
Do you love modding your phone, choosing where, when, and how things are done on your operating system, being able to have full control over your processes / cpu usage / bandwith consumption? Do you like personal freedoms and choices? Get a phone with an Android operating system.
Do you love....Apple? Get an iphone.
For me, its same as windows Desktops and Laptops comapared to Macs or linux.
When you buy a Dell/HP laptop, you get a ton of crapware. that slows the machine down to a limit that the upgrade seems worthless in some case.
To make it all right, you have format and have a clean vanila install. (at least thats what I do).
On Mac, you get things that are good and apple certified. So, you get a good performing machine from the very first boot.
Our android phones are same as windows laptops/desktops from Dell/HP. CM7 is the clean vanila install for android. and i jumped for the first CM7 prebeta that was available!
I was talking to my brother the other day. He was trying to decide which phone OS to go for his next phone. My basic description went like this:
Apple, will take you by the hand ... and bring you to your destination (smart phone nervana). If you see something along your path, apple will ignore it ... and keep on going.
WP7 (never used it, but from what I can gather) will take you by the hand, and guide you to your destination. If you see something interesting along your path, you can stop, but WP7 will constantly nag you to keep on moving in their direction.
Android, will tell you which direction your destination is in, and say ... good luck.
bbb90104 said:
I was talking to my brother the other day. He was trying to decide which phone OS to go for his next phone. My basic description went like this:
Apple, will take you by the hand ... and bring you to your destination (smart phone nervana). If you see something along your path, apple will ignore it ... and keep on going.
WP7 (never used it, but from what I can gather) will take you by the hand, and guide you to your destination. If you see something interesting along your path, you can stop, but WP7 will constantly nag you to keep on moving in their direction.
Android, will tell you which direction your destination is in, and say ... good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS IS AWESOME!!!!! I'm stealing it!
bbb90104 said:
I was talking to my brother the other day. He was trying to decide which phone OS to go for his next phone. My basic description went like this:
Apple, will take you by the hand ... and bring you to your destination (smart phone nervana). If you see something along your path, apple will ignore it ... and keep on going.
WP7 (never used it, but from what I can gather) will take you by the hand, and guide you to your destination. If you see something interesting along your path, you can stop, but WP7 will constantly nag you to keep on moving in their direction.
Android, will tell you which direction your destination is in, and say ... good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing description. LOL !
anupash said:
As much as I respect ur opinion. What bugs and what app problems are u facing?
Because I had the Alien Rom for more than a month and it was smooth as butter and very responsive.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been getting random reboots every couple of days. Whenever the phone stats up again out tells me that there is no sim card so I have to reboot again.
Sometimes the screen will be unresponsive, and a reboot is required. Then I get the no Sim card problem again so I have to reboot a second time.
Pandora doesn't like to be kept in memory very well, which may be am issue of me just needing to reinstall the app.
I'm sure there's more, and definitely many worse problems on my iPhone 3G.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
againareku said:
I don't know. I use android for my personal use. I almost make a living off iPhones.
I'll say one thing
the majority of the dev scene for Apple REVOLVES around jailbreaking and unlocking [and trickles down into free apps] that's pretty much it, yes, there's a lot of homebrew and a lot of work done with apple, but the real hard work goes into unlocking
the majority of the dev scene for Android revolves around improving the core use of the OS and also fixing or tweaking the way hardware is used [such as unlocking frequency bands, fm radio, camera resolutions, battery tweaks, processor or GPU OC/UV, etc]
that should tell you what it comes down to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is precisely why I bought an Android phone instead of an iPhone this time around. Because honestly performance was my main issue with my iPhone.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
paravorheim said:
I've been getting random reboots every couple of days. Whenever the phone stats up again out tells me that there is no sim card so I have to reboot again.
Sometimes the screen will be unresponsive, and a reboot is required. Then I get the no Sim card problem again so I have to reboot a second time.
Pandora doesn't like to be kept in memory very well, which may be am issue of me just needing to reinstall the app.
I'm sure there's more, and definitely many worse problems on my iPhone 3G.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... sorry but you SHOULDN"T be having these problems.
In regards to random reboots issue - are you overclocked? do you use launcherpro?
In regards to sim card absent issue - how old is your sim card? this could also be a phone issue, you should be eligible for a replacement in that case.
Touchscreen unresponsive issue - again, you shouldn't be having this issue. Which rom do you use? Do you have a screen protector? In what specific usage cases does it freeze?
I have nothing like this problems at all.
CaelanT said:
I would like to understand why so many people say they "need" webtop, and why so many cannot live without it on this phone. Somebody please answer this. I am pretty sure everyone lived perfectly fine before the Atrix came along, so why the sudden requirement for school and work to "need" webtop?
If you came from the iPhone, you certainly did not have webtop before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, I didn't have webtop before when I owned an iPhone. I also had a laptop given to me by my school then too.
Now that i've had to return that, I bought the laptop dock specifically for note taking and remote desktop into my computer in my room for using programs required for engineering (Matlab, Eclipse, Mathematica, etc.)
I could have bought a NetBook for a little more money, and had much better performance, but I thought the cool factor of your phone powering a laptop and all the work being done to better
webtop would be worth more. (especially now with the source out )
I think my op suggested I was frustrated to the point where I would sell the phone. No, I still love it. But I thought I'd express my feelings about some of its shortcomings.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
xploited said:
Hmmm... sorry but you SHOULDN"T be having these problems.
In regards to random reboots issue - are you overclocked? do you use launcherpro?
In regards to sim card absent issue - how old is your sim card? this could also be a phone issue, you should be eligible for a replacement in that case.
Touchscreen unresponsive issue - again, you shouldn't be having this issue. Which rom do you use? Do you have a screen protector? In what specific usage cases does it freeze?
I have nothing like this problems at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More than likely all I need is a new rom flash, with a newer or stock kernel. I'm not overclocked, and I use adw launcher ex.
My Sim card came with my phone when I got it, so is about 6 months old. I may just ask them for a new one whenever I go home to see if that fixes the problem.
I believe that the touchscreen being unresponsive could be due to overheat issues, because every time it happens I think it gets fairly toasty. Or maybe when my phone vibrated in my pocket when someone calls me, and I press the power button to mute it. I do indeed have a screen protector on though; do you think that's why it would become unresponsive?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
paravorheim said:
I think my op suggested I was frustrated to the point where I would sell the phone. No, I still love it. But I thought I'd express my feelings about some of its shortcomings.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... to address your frustrations now...
I only managed to conclude that your homescreen lags, right?
Well, on Android you can always find alternatives for everythings. When it comes to homescreens, you are spoiled for choice - ADW, Stock launcher, GO Launcher, launcherpro, even Touchwiz launcher are all available for Atrix.
I assure you that you will find at least one that you like visually and which doesn't lag.
between the two phone, android phone and windows 8 phone, which one do you like? which one should I buy? It puzzles me
rofl.
there isnt a Win8 phone
your taking about WindowsPhone7.
windowsPhone8 doesnt exist.
That being said, having used both:
Android - more tweaks, more apps but also more babysitting to keep it running well; there are 4G phones. Prepare to use task manager, worry about malware and so on.
Windows Phone 7 - less tweaks, less apps, but it "just works". Also, the UI rocks it, designed to be more than just a launchpad for shortcuts. No 4G phones yet. T-Mobile is coming with first phone with front facing camera.
I am one of those that had Android and went to WP7 and yey!
bigboy292000 said:
that being said, having used both:
Android - more tweaks, more apps but also more babysitting to keep it running well; there are 4g phones. Prepare to use task manager, worry about malware and so on.
Windows phone 7 - less tweaks, less apps, but it "just works". Also, the ui rocks it, designed to be more than just a launchpad for shortcuts. No 4g phones yet. T-mobile is coming with first phone with front facing camera.
I am one of those that had android and went to wp7 and yey!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have both phone hd2 hacked with win7 and g2x hack with cm7 let me tell u thar g2x from tmo is pretty gd im glad not to have to deal with windows phones anymore android is the way trust me u wont b sry like windows plus xbox took the 360 feat. Off it so now its garage to me.....think out side the box lol :d
bigboy292000 said:
That being said, having used both:
Android - more tweaks, more apps but also more babysitting to keep it running well; there are 4G phones. Prepare to use task manager, worry about malware and so on.
Windows Phone 7 - less tweaks, less apps, but it "just works". Also, the UI rocks it, designed to be more than just a launchpad for shortcuts. No 4G phones yet. T-Mobile is coming with first phone with front facing camera.
I am one of those that had Android and went to WP7 and yey!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using a task manager is the single worst thing you can do with android, android handles ram in a totally diffrent way to windows, infact the less free ram, the better android runs.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
android 4
i just have got the SGSII (android) and Ditch the Focus(win7)
if you like freedom get the android one.
best regards
HP
android :X
If ur a muthafckin kid take android- its colourful its brainwashing its absolutely time waisting and you have everything you dont need. If you want a phone which you will not like to drug with take wp7- its fast it works it has everything you will need and its your best partner. You dont have to make it your wife and be a geek till the rest of ur miserable lonely life just like with botdroid! (of course with some small exeptions)
Wp7 is fast it works smooth and you have everything at a glance. The integration is great as well. You don't need an app for that because it does all the stuff you need built into the is OS.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
jan123456789012 said:
If ur a muthafckin kid take android- its colourful its brainwashing its absolutely time waisting and you have everything you dont need. If you want a phone which you will not like to drug with take wp7- its fast it works it has everything you will need and its your best partner. You dont have to make it your wife and be a geek till the rest of ur miserable lonely life just like with botdroid! (of course with some small exeptions)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO
You are on one of the best Android modding sites on the Internet and your complaining about OS tweaks?
/rofl
jan123456789012 said:
If ur a muthafckin kid take android- its colourful its brainwashing its absolutely time waisting and you have everything you dont need. If you want a phone which you will not like to drug with take wp7- its fast it works it has everything you will need and its your best partner. You dont have to make it your wife and be a geek till the rest of ur miserable lonely life just like with botdroid! (of course with some small exeptions)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you. are an idiot.
...
xnoctis93 said:
you. are an idiot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed.
LinxAndroid said:
rofl.
there isnt a Win8 phone
your taking about WindowsPhone7.
windowsPhone8 doesnt exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet...
http://en.xpphone.com/Upfiles/2011102616404887891.jpg
Windows 8? wow
Chrissteven81 said:
Wp7 is fast it works smooth and you have everything at a glance. The integration is great as well. You don't need an app for that because it does all the stuff you need built into the is OS.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been searching for a thread like this to clarify some doubts I have about both platforms....noob here guys so be gentle.
I believe there are some widgets in Android which could provide you a similar feature...i.e. a single glance overview of calls/ appointments/ msgs etc....I also believe this is part of the OS and not a separate app...doesn't this make both equal,featurewise.
I feel that WP7 has the best UI compared to iOS and android.... but the lack of file management and missing USB outlook sync (which is the only reason I'm still sticking to WM) is my biggest worry. I understand there is work around; but I think this is a major drawback.
People who have used both Android and WP7, can you pls share how the lack of these features in WP7 affects day to day usage (mainly business use). Do you feel its worth adapting to the new routine for a smoother user experience (and a promise of further improvements) or the sensible thing is to just sacrifice the cool UI for all the other benefits of having a flexible platform (not to mention some terrific hardware)
Thanks for your input folks....
Android gives you customization and flexibility, but lacks the easy of use that the windows phone ui gives you.
Both are very much usable day by day, but as you've pointed out, the new windows ui is not flexible, and you'r out of luck trying to sync it to outlook, maybe with CompanionLink.
I prefer android
Thanks for the reply.
Anyone with good knowledge on MS know if this situation (USB outlook sync) about to change in further revisions of WP (Tango / Apollo)
VKris said:
Thanks for the reply.
Anyone with good knowledge on MS know if this situation (USB outlook sync) about to change in further revisions of WP (Tango / Apollo)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a feature that will not be added back into the Windows Phone lines. Knowing some of the people on the WP7 team, it's been complained about, but will never seen as a feature in that mobile OS family.
It's an archaic technology, and with the advent of high speed mobile data and wifi hotspots so available for when cell service isn't, it's not seen as a priority to even be considered.
jjayno2003 said:
i have both phone hd2 hacked with win7 and g2x hack with cm7 let me tell u thar g2x from tmo is pretty gd im glad not to have to deal with windows phones anymore android is the way trust me u wont b sry like windows plus xbox took the 360 feat. Off it so now its garage to me.....think out side the box lol :d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I read this, I desperately hoped they were from some third world country that I'd never heard of because I didn't understand one word of it.