Related
Hey guys,
don't get me wrong, I am not talking about the current stage of android on HD2.
What the guys here established so far is mindblowing, but still we are nowhere near the performance of a pure android phone like the HTC Desire.
Question is, is it possible, with a fully optimized kernel and the OS running in NAND to achieve the performance of a HTC Desire?
Having in mind, that we are basically talking about the very same hardware platform regarding cpu/gpu/ram:
Qualcomm Snapdragon 8250
ATI/AMD Z430 GPU
576 MB of RAM.
So what do you guys think?
boba
I went to a sprint store with my HD2 running Darkstone's v5 and it seems to be just as fast as, if not faster than the Evo, so there's no reason to presume it wouldn't be the same for the Desire.
I think we will have to wait until
- we can flash android directly as ROM and not only boot it and have it running on a sdcard
- the full memory available can be used. Currently the amount of ram used by android is around 250 Mbyte as far as I know. So nearly a half of ram is unused at the moment.
I am very sure that we will have great performance mostly like on desire when these points are realized.
If I use a live wallpaper on my HD2, there are some stutters when I open the "all apps"-tab. With a static wall it is in fact as smooth as the desire I used for comparison.
But I guess the overall performance is still on a way lower level than it should be out of a fully utilized NAND
Bare in mind, contrary to what you might think, Windows Mobile is in fact NOT running in any entirety once HaRET shuts it all down.
Phil
when will an android ROM be available that runs from flash
Hi,
I am interested in running android, I am a software developer so I have a clue but I have never put a non-htc rom in my hd2.
What is the timescale for an android rom being available that will replace the windows carp?
i was also wondering why so many people are creating their own versions rather than people grouping together to solve the various driver problems etc.
it seems a vastly over complex and risky process which is why i have not tried it, let alone deciding which flavour to choose.
i basically want to turn my hd2 into a decent phone, the hardware is good, the OS is carp but as yet there does not seem to be a decent way to run android other than buy an android phone.
not wanting a flame war here, i just don't get it.
I'm running Shub's Cyanogen and it already runs faster than my brother's Desire for the majority of tasks.
So yes.
@john00williams
how complex and risky is downloading a rar, extract it onto you SDcard, then running 1 exe file and waiting?! if after 10 mins you dont see android home screen, then you remove your battery to restart the phone and wait for new android build while using your old WM!!
you dont delete anything or remove anything.
how is that complex?? how??
also, fact that android is running from SD card only slows the bootup, while android itself is not visibly slower, cause WM is shut down completely and android is loaded into memory. for optimal usage you should have level 6 SD card anyway
kerman19 said:
Bare in mind, contrary to what you might think, Windows Mobile is in fact NOT running in any entirety once HaRET shuts it all down.
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THANKYOU, I dont know why so many people are finding that hard to understand
john00williams said:
Hi,
I am interested in running android, I am a software developer so I have a clue but I have never put a non-htc rom in my hd2.
What is the timescale for an android rom being available that will replace the windows carp?
i was also wondering why so many people are creating their own versions rather than people grouping together to solve the various driver problems etc.
it seems a vastly over complex and risky process which is why i have not tried it, let alone deciding which flavour to choose.
i basically want to turn my hd2 into a decent phone, the hardware is good, the OS is carp but as yet there does not seem to be a decent way to run android other than buy an android phone.
not wanting a flame war here, i just don't get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noone has any idea how long a full nand build will take, but I've read in a few places that a ETA is september...
All the devs are sharing their work as far as i can see.
there are 2 or 3 main builds now, the rest are older work...
Complex?
Get the right radio, rom, and put android on the root of your SD and run it.
Not complex at all, childs play infact.
the HD2 IS A GOOD phone. Just because you dont like winmo doesnt change that.
Maybe you should have researched a little before buying it...
If you wanted android, why the didn't you buy it?
to everyone else booting android on the hd2 is a bonus.
Please search before posting too, everything I just said has been said countless times
john00williams said:
it seems a vastly over complex and risky process which is why i have not tried it, let alone deciding which flavour to choose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Risky? It runs off the memory card, there is zero to little risk. Other than the phone heating up a little the phone being damaged is highly unlikely. And with SetCPU running mine doesn't heat up any more than it did under Windows Mobile when running intensive apps or services.
john00williams said:
i basically want to turn my hd2 into a decent phone, the hardware is good, the OS is carp but as yet there does not seem to be a decent way to run android other than buy an android phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can tell you haven't tried out one of the recent Android builds. If I was asked to assign a percentage of usability to the Cyanogen build I'm using off my class 6 Samsung card it would be 95% and the few things which are still ropey aren't essential, or certainly not for me. I can live without full bluetooth support for example.
My phone now has Android on it, that is how I think of it. I don't think of it as a WM phone that happens to be sort of running Android, a small but important point. I haven't used Windows Mobile now for over two weeks, and there is a reason for that.
@ the moment de devs are working to get full amount of ram. Cotulla said he see no problem to make nand work but there will be no nand until half of semptember for various reasons. I think they want first fix all other problems.
jan-willem3 said:
@ the moment de devs are working to get full amount of ram. Cotulla said he see no problem to make nand work but there will be no nand until half of semptember for various reasons. I think they want first fix all other problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... and that makes sense definitly. It is much easier to fix issues by for example replacing a zimage file than flashing a new rom. Also we have the possibility to boot in wimo when problems occure. In my case I have four different android builds on my sdcard as I can not make a final decision which version to run yet. Some receive frequent updates, some don't.
So we should not see the lack of a nand rom too negative, its a great opportunity to fix most of the issues.
if only scrolling is smoother , all things willl be fine with me
Pagnell said:
My phone now has Android on it, that is how I think of it. I don't think of it as a WM phone that happens to be sort of running Android, a small but important point. I haven't used Windows Mobile now for over two weeks, and there is a reason for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likewise, I've not run Windows Mobile for about the same amount of time, even when people were getting issues with the early builds, I wasn't.
Windows Mobile for me is gone, even in its current state, it's far more usable than my stock HD2 ever was!
I'm still on Froyo1.0, I've not tried any of the Sense Builds out.
Phil
Ask any one a month ago how they liked the desire build they would have said its buggy and needs to be smoothed out. I have fixed every thing on my desire build (except 3g=working on it) but i have the energy rom now and 2.12 radio and runing the desire v5.7 biuld and let me tell you it is way faster than last month so sept. sounds great for the rest of the bugs to be sorted out so can the desire build run fast on the hd2 just like the born android desire? ill have to say yes
p.s. i cant say ill get rid of winmo all together thats kinda the reason i bought the phone booting into android is just one extra bonus
At the moment there is only a limited amount of RAM available.
And SD cards are really really slow when writing to(even the expensive class 10 ones).
These two factors combined is the biggest performance problem at the moment. Nand and full RAM access is the only solution here I believe.
There are several benchmark programs for Android that you can run on your hd2 to see that in some areas performance is just as good as with the desire already. Thanks to the brilliant minds that work on porting Android.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
runemail said:
At the moment there is only a limited amount of RAM available.
And SD cards are really really slow when writing to(even the expensive class 10 ones).
These two factors combined is the biggest performance problem at the moment. Nand and full RAM access is the only solution here I believe.
There are several benchmark programs for Android that you can run on your hd2 to see that in some areas performance is just as good as with the desire already. Thanks to the brilliant minds that work on porting Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the htc incredible for my work phone. I am using a class 6 8gb sdcard, miri's rom, and darkstones hd2froyo. There is almost no difference between the phones. Less then 10% in speed. My incredible is stock however.
Will it be possible to put both android and winmo on nand in the future?
I just recently had the chance to run my HD2 with MattC RC 1.4 side by side with a Desire and an EVO and honestly, there is little to no difference in performance in MY personal build, which for whatever reason has been pretty much flawless since I started using these Android builds. Believe it or not, I have literally never once (knock on wood) had a SOD, other than my bootup having the green screen once or twice and white screen once. I actually tried going back to WinMo the other day and literally just couldn't stomach it, the functionality just doesn't cut it for me even though I still say it is the better "business" platform when compared to Android. Too long winded? Probably.
jjones1983 said:
I just recently had the chance to run my HD2 with MattC RC 1.4 side by side with a Desire and an EVO and honestly, there is little to no difference in performance in MY personal build, which for whatever reason has been pretty much flawless since I started using these Android builds. Believe it or not, I have literally never once (knock on wood) had a SOD, other than my bootup having the green screen once or twice and white screen once. I actually tried going back to WinMo the other day and literally just couldn't stomach it, the functionality just doesn't cut it for me even though I still say it is the better "business" platform when compared to Android. Too long winded? Probably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
add for that thet we have proper multitouch with no multitouch issues like one (desire , nexusone and incredible )
I have an HD2 with SPL 2.08 and radio 2.15 , WinMo rom - Dexter .sencity 21.11 .
I have tried with other combinations too. My SD card is the original class 2 2gb micro SD. When I install Desire rom it works fast and everything is fine. When I put a Desire HD rom however it is slow - i takes 1-2 secs for it to open keyboard or the menus and so on. I dont know what the problem is or how can I see exactly how slow it is. Any help would be much appreciated! It is odd that people report that the Desire HD roms are really fast when they are slow on my HD2. Probably I messed up something but I dont know what so please HELP! I have tried different roms from m-deejay and Sergio76 and so on. The Froyo stock roms also work fast and flawless. I know there is another thread but it is in another section and there are no responses because this sections has 100x more activity. THank you!
Man honestly to rule out any possibilities of the ROM being the factor you have to use a class 6 or above sd card, otherwise you have no way of really troubleshooting what your problem is. Also, Devs mention in the releases all the time the Radio and WinMo ROM they use so to insure the same performance they can only give you what they are running as well.
SkyWalka said:
Man honestly to rule out any possibilities of the ROM being the factor you have to use a class 6 or above sd card, otherwise you have no way of really troubleshooting what your problem is. Also, Devs mention in the releases all the time the Radio and WinMo ROM they use so to insure the same performance they can only give you what they are running as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The class of the SD card has nothing to do with it. The majority or people that have tried a class 4 and above say it is a lot worse than the stock SD card. I have tried and it was a lot worse for me also.
The Windows ROM and radio can have a LOT to do with it though.
m2]iceman said:
I have an HD2 with SPL 2.08 and radio 2.15 , WinMo rom - Dexter .sencity 21.11 .
I have tried with other combinations too. My SD card is the original class 2 2gb micro SD. When I install Desire rom it works fast and everything is fine. When I put a Desire HD rom however it is slow - i takes 1-2 secs for it to open keyboard or the menus and so on. I dont know what the problem is or how can I see exactly how slow it is. Any help would be much appreciated! It is odd that people report that the Desire HD roms are really fast when they are slow on my HD2. Probably I messed up something but I dont know what so please HELP! I have tried different roms from m-deejay and Sergio76 and so on. The Froyo stock roms also work fast and flawless. I know there is another thread but it is in another section and there are no responses because this sections has 100x more activity. THank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, how long exactly did you give it? These HD Roms can literally take hours to settle in and they won't be real speedy until they are completely done syncing everything. I have noticed that sometimes you won't see the sync icon but things will still be syncing in the background, inlcuding the Android market because these new Roms backup all your apps and data with the market and HTC sense. I am using Sergio76's and it is flying so I would try again but give it a lot of time to settle. Hope it works out for you, good luck!
As Motoman said, it will take time for everything to sync, but many reboots is very important. I have been using Mdeejay's Desire HD 4.1 for three days now, and don't have any problems. I must have rebooted 8-10 times the original day and that helped extremely well with speed.
motoman234 said:
The class of the SD card has nothing to do with it. The majority or people that have tried a class 4 and above say it is a lot worse than the stock SD card. I have tried and it was a lot worse for me also.
The Windows ROM and radio can have a LOT to do with it though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At worst a class 6 card (for example) might not provide much in the way of an improvement over a stock class 2 but there is no way it would be 'a lot worse'.
Personally, I noticed a speed increase on identical builds when I swapped from my class 2 to a class 6 but nothing too drastic.
motoman234 said:
By the way, how long exactly did you give it? These HD Roms can literally take hours to settle in and they won't be real speedy until they are completely done syncing everything. I have noticed that sometimes you won't see the sync icon but things will still be syncing in the background, inlcuding the Android market because these new Roms backup all your apps and data with the market and HTC sense. I am using Sergio76's and it is flying so I would try again but give it a lot of time to settle. Hope it works out for you, good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with motoman that sdcards have nothing to do with the speed they might make a very little difference which can be negligible, I am suffering from a lot of lag in desire HD builds............
@motoman234, so can you tell us how exactly we should install these desire hd roms ?,
i was having the same issue with the hd roms. i thought they were terrible. i now have MDJ FroYo HD v.4.3=-[kernel:MDJ S7.5HD] running very well. i had to change my rom to achieve this. the wmrom is useless IMO but it lets me run android hd now. i am using this rom
ChuckyDroidROM-HTCFrameworkEdition.Nov.05.7z
and this radio
Radio_Leo_2.15.50.14
i also install bsb tweaks in winmo and set to power save mode. turn off everything in winmo and auto boot to android with hard keys lit up.
it works for me
Same issue as OP here. All non-HD ROMs run really fast. But other Desire HD ROMs are plain terrible speed-wise. I have a good Class 6 card.
It's a kernel issue. There is nothing you can do.
Pagnell said:
At worst a class 6 card (for example) might not provide much in the way of an improvement over a stock class 2 but there is no way it would be 'a lot worse'.
Personally, I noticed a speed increase on identical builds when I swapped from my class 2 to a class 6 but nothing too drastic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each is own I suppose. I can only speak for myself when I say that a class 6 card made me have SOD every time when waking the phone from sleep, not to mention overall less performance. Not sure what it is about them but it was bad in my case but I doubt every single person will experience this.
vtec303 said:
I agree with motoman that sdcards have nothing to do with the speed they might make a very little difference which can be negligible, I am suffering from a lot of lag in desire HD builds............
@motoman234, so can you tell us how exactly we should install these desire hd roms ?,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a bit time consuming to get them rolling smooth for the first time but these are the steps I usually use when installing them for those of you that can not get them running like they should.
1) Boot up the build (fresh start)
2) Wait a couple minutes before unlocking the screen for the first time.
3) Setup everything in the SetupWizard.
4) From the moment you hit the "Finish" button on the SetupWizard, set your phone down for about 30-45 minutes before touching anything (OFF the charger if possible since it can get really hot when it is syncing everything for the first time. Charging can just add to that heat)
5) After you notice things to get a little faster, reboot the phone and then boot back into Android.
6) Wait another 5 minutes before unlocking the phone.
7) You should be good to go, if things still seem a little laggy try to reboot one more time.
I know this seems overboard but these HD builds have a lot to them. After you get the process over with you should be happy you did it. Once again **This is just what works for me** I am using Core Droid V0.2 by the way.
@Motoman234,
Not overboard...it's good advice. Thank you for the steps! P.S. Good to see a chef from my neck of the woods! Thank you sir!!
motoman234 said:
The class of the SD card has nothing to do with it. The majority or people that have tried a class 4 and above say it is a lot worse than the stock SD card. I have tried and it was a lot worse for me also.
The Windows ROM and radio can have a LOT to do with it though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pagnell said:
At worst a class 6 card (for example) might not provide much in the way of an improvement over a stock class 2 but there is no way it would be 'a lot worse'.
Personally, I noticed a speed increase on identical builds when I swapped from my class 2 to a class 6 but nothing too drastic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Speed of the SD card has nothing to do with the roms performance.
The only difference that we will feel between a 'Class 2' and a 'Class 6' is when copying files to or from the SD card.
I noticed that on my 16GB Class 2, I have a transfer rate up to 4 MB/s when copying the Android folder and this card is supposed to have a maximum of 2mb writing while on my 8GB Class 6 I can copy up to 10 Mb/s the same Android folder (twice as fast).
But when Android runs I don't feel any difference at all.
The reason why the Desire HD roms are slow on the HD2 is because these roms were optimized to work under 768 MB RAM while our HD2 has only 576 MB RAM.
We barely have 100MB of free RAM with a Desire HD rom but with a stock rom we can have 300MB and more free.
ForceField said:
The Speed of the SD card has nothing to do with the roms performance.
The only difference that we will feel between a 'Class 2' and a 'Class 6' is when copying files to or from the SD card.
I noticed that on my 16GB Class 2, I have a transfer rate up to 4 MB/s when copying the Android folder and this card is supposed to have a maximum of 2mb writing while on my 8GB Class 6 I can copy up to 10 Mb/s the same Android folder (twice as fast).
But when Android runs I don't feel any difference at all.
The reason why the Desire HD roms are slow on the HD2 is because these roms were optimized to work under 768 MB RAM while our HD2 has only 576 MB RAM.
We barely have 100MB of free RAM with a Desire HD rom but with a stock rom we can have 300MB and more free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think what makes it worse is that we dont get 576mb ram in android, as this has not been built into kernels, we are only getting about 350mb of ram. If I check my available ram it is around the 300mb mark and has never been above 350mb.
u must just reboot you device after 1-st boot
hookguy said:
I think what makes it worse is that we dont get 576mb ram in android, as this has not been built into kernels, we are only getting about 350mb of ram. If I check my available ram it is around the 300mb mark and has never been above 350mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes,the secret of having a good performance on any device is to have 1/3 of the amount of RAM always free.
For ex if you have 3GB of ram,you can use till 2GB and you will be very good.
But if you use 2.1 GB of the 3GB then don't think twice and upgrade immediately.
We are using this equation on our servers and t works pretty well,at least for our company.
I've only tested desire_hd beta and Core Droid HD v0.2 so far. Nonetheless, both have been quick and solid here. Like mentioned by motoman234, give these builds time to sync your market apps and settle down, then reboot a couple times, and you should be good to go. If the build has heavy lag, it's most likely still trying to download your market apps and install them as well as sync your personal data. Patience is key here.
Also, this goes for every build, but make sure that your keypad lights are on when booting into android. Doing this has normally solved any high standby battery drain that I've run into to date.
As far as MircoSDHC cards go, I have tested a handful of different class and size cards with the HD2, and found that once the system is booted up, there's no difference, or the higher class cards have more SOD or freeze issues for some reason. The HD2 can only handle so much, and random read speed appears to be the most important factor. In turn, a good quality class 2 card should be all you need. That said, I've been running a Sandisk 32GB class 2 card for months now, without a single problem to date. Regardless of what card you use, I highly recommend using SD Formatter in quick format mode.
Another thought... it may help a little to use a standard wallpaper at first, instead of the live wallpaper, just until the system has settled down.
All that said, I'm a huge fan of Core Droid HD, due to the animations and polished theme work done by Sergio76. It's an excellent build, and you can easily get the camcorder working with the system files fix included in the thread.
On a kind of related note, motoman234 has an excellent EVO Sense Black & Blue Remix build available, if the Desire HD Sense builds are too heavy for your needs.
Best to all,
R
Well said, thanks man.
motoman234 said:
Well said, thanks man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers motoman234! And... thank you so much for your excellent build work and help. To say the least, your EVO remix has been extra solid here.
Best to all,
R
[POLL] Which gsm hero rom is CURRENTLY running on your phone?
Choose one and we'll see what's going on in the world of our little gsm heros.
I don't see a poll like this for gsm hero - certainly nothing with current roms.
Good idea for a poll! I too would like to know what is happening with our little Hero(s).
thanks
I decided to limit to only one answer, what's running right now, since many of us nandroid and flash regularly we could end up with the 5 or 6 most obvious answers all being voted for by everyone. to me that's just silly.
at least this is scientific: if not absolutely indicative of everyone's favorite rom, at least it's indicative of the current choice.
Could be used for a trend chart if in the future we do the same poll again and compare results.
a.t.m. running:
- 2.3 gingerbread - cronos
Working good, happy Gingerbread user
DjoeN said:
a.t.m. running:
- 2.3 gingerbread - cronos
Working good, happy Gingerbread user
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dito, and voted as such
note: I kept results anonymous (hopefully) so if you wish to keep your status private you can still vote.
happy to see people posting openly though of course
wow hahaha reload first page of gsm hero development forum and every rom thread's most recent post is my link to this poll.
I wanted to be fair so tried to post the link for every rom that is getting current thread discussion.
but no posts there after my posts, even after 15 minutes or so - I suppose everyone's here voting.
pretty much the results I expected aside from the mass of gb users!
surprising about rcmix and tegro - I know of some users of those roms currently.
wow - you VR12 guys - you could consider backing up (using nandroid) and trying out RCmix or tegro. they're both much newer versions of sense roms that are quicker in some ways and also offer newer nicer features (newer widgets and other good things). but good that you're happy with vr12 still
Cheers
dkelley said:
wow - you VR12 guys - you could consider backing up (using nandroid) and trying out RCmix or tegro. they're both much newer versions of sense roms that are quicker in some ways and also offer newer nicer features (newer widgets and other good things). but good that you're happy with vr12 still
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey dkelley, long time no speak (again)
Interesting you mentioned VR12... I have been looking into security of the Android platform, and I would strongly recommend people move off Sense-based ROMs, and onto a Froyo custom ROM for now...
I am not at liberty to give details of the exploit (and I don't have full details), given most non-custom ROM devices will sit for the rest of their lives, vulnerable to this, but I understand that the 2.1 ROMs have some pretty serious security holes in the browser system, which appear to be better in the last set of sources I pulled from CM on the froyo tree (for FroydVillain 1.7.x)
So while it's interesting to see people still using VR12, I would suggest everyone on a Sense-based ROM moves to a "proper" 2.2 vanilla ROM. I don't think a Sense UI 2.2 ROM would be safe, so I'd discourage those too. It appears you need something CM based, and pretty recent.
As such, I would urge anyone using older CM-based ROMs (say from before November or October) to upgrade if they are concerned about security while surfing the internet. HTC don't seem to be interested in fixing the vulnerability, but I checked FV 1.7 and it is not vulnerable to this one attack.
If you support the idea of HTC being pressed into updating their phones (remember that EVERY user of the Hero, who isn't on a custom ROM, is vulnerable to any security exploits, which will not be fixed unless they do an update), then check out http://bit.ly/fDGHPV, where I am trying to get some support together before I contact HTC and mobile carriers.
PS Don, I seem to have derailed this a bit... Figured it was perhaps best to post this in here, since there's no point in making a new thread that we want to get many people to do, and you already did the "donkey work" so to speak. If this derails the thread, I'll sweep it out into another thread if you want
pulser_g2 said:
If you support the idea of HTC being pressed into updating their phones (remember that EVERY user of the Hero, who isn't on a custom ROM, is vulnerable to any security exploits, which will not be fixed unless they do an update), then check out http://bit.ly/fDGHPV, where I am trying to get some support together before I contact HTC and mobile carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi....
Do you have any CVE references ?
http://cve.mitre.org/
This is just a blog with without any CVE-refs as I can see.....
http://thomascannon.net/blog/2010/11/android-data-stealing-vulnerability/
Hey Pulser
surprised you didn't send me a warning for spamming the same post linking to this thread in like a dozen gsm hero threads within 5 minutes yesterday LoL
Interesting, and a little scary, what you're saying.
But being the scientific (and slightly cynical) type I tend not to believe anything without either proof or at least further information.
I'll read up on it some - but can you summarize the possible type of damage? such as gathering of private data by parties who know about the exploit? or damage to the phone via intentional cause (again by parties in the know)? or what
dkelley said:
Hey Pulser
surprised you didn't send me a warning for spamming the same post linking to this thread in like a dozen gsm hero threads within 5 minutes yesterday LoL
Interesting, and a little scary, what you're saying.
But being the scientific (and slightly cynical) type I tend not to believe anything without either proof or at least further information.
I'll read up on it some - but can you summarize the possible type of damage? such as gathering of private data by parties who know about the exploit? or damage to the phone via intentional cause (again by parties in the know)? or what
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went back to Cronosproject 1.7.2 from gb beta 6. Even the massive headway they made thus far has been awesome with Fee and Ele together I can't see how it can be made as good as 1.7.2. Its way behind on performance and hogs memory with the minimum system and regular apps installed. The battery seems awesome but not much in there to use it. I'll wait till full release or stick with this rom. I can have a desire on wife's upgrade but I fancy something more now.desire is very quick.
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
I went back to Cronosproject 1.7.2 from gb beta 6. Even the massive headway they made thus far has been awesome with Fee and Ele together I can't see how it can be made as good as 1.7.2. Its way behind on performance and hogs memory with the minimum system and regular apps installed. The battery seems awesome but not much in there to use it. I'll wait till full release or stick with this rom. I can have a desire on wife's upgrade but I fancy something more now.desire is very quick.
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed but give it time, and disagreed about "hogs memory": using the available memory like crazy is done to speed up performance, it's not hogging anything in a bad way. when something else requests memory that memory is freed up.
gb's memory manager is years ahead of it's predecessors
but yea, it will take a while.
Note - it's at 0.0.7 now and has everything working except camera which they're working on. performance is always improving, all sensors work now, and it's pretty amazing.
I just need a more stable build for now dude. Grafix and app issues made me revert. I'm sure with input on Cronus now they will make it much better. They need to get used to each others methods of building. I love it on there and not many will give it the dedication that Feeyo puts in. Ele is not dissimilar so expect great things. The futures bright
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
I just need a more stable build for now dude. Grafix and app issues made me revert. I'm sure with input on Cronus now they will make it much better. They need to get used to each others methods of building. I love it on there and not many will give it the dedication that Feeyo puts in. Ele is not dissimilar so expect great things. The futures bright
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. was just correcting you about the memory hogging thing since it's a good thing not a bad thing.
edit: well, not agreed about stability LoL. sorry I keep doing that . I'm running it and have for days and it's super stable. gui speed has improved a ton now too. you wouldn't know you were in such a new rom if you tried it on my phone cuz I disabled the animatinos etc very carefully in various settings places and use LP and so on.
BUT for me the fastest rom is still cronos eclair lite - it's gui, with LP, is noticeably faster than with other roms. If only it wasn't 2.1 based (with it's EXCEPTIONALLY slow and crappy applications manager and so on).
dkelley said:
agreed. was just correcting you about the memory hogging thing since it's a good thing not a bad thing.
edit: well, not agreed about stability LoL. sorry I keep doing that . I'm running it and have for days and it's super stable. gui speed has improved a ton now too. you wouldn't know you were in such a new rom if you tried it on my phone cuz I disabled the animatinos etc very carefully in various settings places and use LP and so on.
BUT for me the fastest rom is still cronos eclair lite - it's gui, with LP, is noticeably faster than with other roms. If only it wasn't 2.1 based (with it's EXCEPTIONALLY slow and crappy applications manager and so on).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had fc's with too many things. Neo, quad, then regular apps and no market. With minimal apps it was slowing right down. I figured that no matter how good the memory allocation manager if you don't have the physical memory the manager can't work right. I'll wait. Do you have basics like market working?
I never had any kind of lag with 1.7.2. The GUI is awesome. It benches close to the desire.
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
I just had fc's with too many things. Neo, quad, then regular apps and no market. With minimal apps it was slowing right down. I figured that no matter how good the memory allocation manager if you don't have the physical memory the manager can't work right. I'll wait. Do you have basics like market working?
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everything's workign perfectly, no FCs, market's been fine for several versions now for most of us. everything except camera apps and certain specific graphics apps work great now.
neocore's broken, doesn't matter of course, same with quad, it's not relevant to anything. They're apps designed for certain operating system versions and hardware and the hero running gb doesn't fit the bill. those are are irrelevant apps that can be dismissed.
I play lots of games and they're working just great. all productivity and utility apps are great.
audio and multimedia stuff are fine too. not really sure where you were getting FCs but it sounds like it needed a new wipe and reflash possibly.
but then there's that strange thing were not every rom works on everyone's hero - I'll never know why, but I swear it's true
apps2sd and so on are working now (with a patch from elelinux). there's something that's slowing down the gui and animations still, and I accidentally had my gb phone running super fast in those areas when my app2sd flash borked. So I know a solution is possible to that last little bit of performance...
dkelley said:
everything's workign perfectly, no FCs, market's been fine for several versions now for most of us. everything except camera apps and certain specific graphics apps work great now.
neocore's broken, doesn't matter of course, same with quad, it's not relevant to anything. They're apps designed for certain operating system versions and hardware and the hero running gb doesn't fit the bill. those are are irrelevant apps that can be dismissed.
I play lots of games and they're working just great. all productivity and utility apps are great.
audio and multimedia stuff are fine too. not really sure where you were getting FCs but it sounds like it needed a new wipe and reflash possibly.
but then there's that strange thing were not every rom works on everyone's hero - I'll never know why, but I swear it's true
apps2sd and so on are working now (with a patch from elelinux). there's something that's slowing down the gui and animations still, and I accidentally had my gb phone running super fast in those areas when my app2sd flash borked. So I know a solution is possible to that last little bit of performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird dude. I haven't had time to go through the thread but I will now and go again. I could swear I full factory reset and wiped everything.
I had a long week with kids but thanks, I wondered why it was so bad.... but it wasn't! And no mention of my probs!
Taxi for spike...
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
Weird dude. I haven't had time to go through the thread but I will now and go again. I could swear I full factory reset and wiped everything.
I had a long week with kids but thanks, I wondered why it was so bad.... but it wasn't! And no mention of my probs!
Taxi for spike...
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha - well hopefully it'll work better for you now than it did before. you will find slow gui screen animations at times though so it's worth disabling all of that and using launcherpro (if you can find launcherpro anywhere considering fede's rather frustrating emergency issue at the moment).
My launcher pro plus backup will work wont it?
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
So I have been searching the forum for a while but haven't been able to piece together a good answer from what I have been reading, so I decided to go ahead and ask. I know that these questions have been asked before, more or less, but at the rate development is going, and with the updated Android builds, I would guess things have changed even from 2-3 weeks ago, let alone 2-3 months.
What are the advantages of a NAND build (nowadays anyhow) over SD? Is it the speed?
Is battery life better on NAND or SD or it is really up to the kernel?
Are RAM editions somewhat speedier than their counterparts? if so, are they less stable or something than a regular NAND or SD version? I mean, if they are equally as stable, why isn't every developer doing RAM versions to get the most possible speed?
I know the speed of the SD card helps with SD versions to some extent. I bought a 16GB class 10 Wintec for that purpose, and it seems to do well. At that point, battery nonwithstanding, would be it worth it to go to a NAND build or would the speedy MicroSD make up most (if not all) the difference?
Thanks for the answers in advance. I just wanted to get a little bit of updated info from those in the know
While I am at it, another question to add to the list.
Does the underlying OS make a difference with the SD build? I know that Android should shut down and supersede the WM drivers, but would having WM7 over WM6.5 as the underlying build make any difference whatsoever to anything when booted into Android from SD?
thanks!
Main advantate of NAND is that you can replace SD card without turning off phone. And your build don't rely on speed of SD card. But due to small storage space, many builds still use SD which kinda defeats it's purpose.
Sent from my DL DesireZ 3.3 final using XDA App
No one has any idea on the other questions? Thanks for your input matejdo.
Again, some info is appreciated.
SD/RAM/NAND?????????????????????????/
I would really like these questions answered too.
I know that so far NAND is more complicated ....
with 2 or even 3 partitions, from EXT2/3/4, < who knows which is best.
And NAND is not as fast as RAM obv but is much safer in regards to corruption.
I have found SD builds to score higher in flops and quadrant than NAND however which is strange. SD is easier to copy to device, other than that im sure all custom roms have their issues. including screen light on lag.
i have tried and loved darkstone ram edition which was rapid but just not all there is you know what i mean, and now after giving up on dandiests desirez3.4/5 in nand and sd after too many lags, crashes and data drops etc im looking at MCCM HD V4 or MCCM GB1.8 SENSE GINGERBREAD as these seem to be the most stable build with all functioning functions but i shall soon see how they fair.........
.............................greatest respect goes to all devs for you efforts
we're nearly there!
but please any input regarding these questions would personally b appreciated!
Ok, here's my 10 cents. Some of this is debatable but these are pretty standard answers.
jotekman said:
What are the advantages of a NAND build (nowadays anyhow) over SD? Is it the speed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, speed, responsiveness, battery life, etc.
jotekman said:
Is battery life better on NAND or SD or it is really up to the kernel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life is typically better on NAND. Kernels can also make a difference.
jotekman said:
Are RAM editions somewhat speedier than their counterparts? if so, are they less stable or something than a regular NAND or SD version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, RAM editions are faster but they are worse on battery life. Data stored in RAM requires constant power and does not survive a power cycle of the phone, therefore the data is stored typically to SD card, which also consumes more power.
jotekman said:
I mean, if they are equally as stable, why isn't every developer doing RAM versions to get the most possible speed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Previous answer is why, more power consumption, data stored on SD.
jotekman said:
I know the speed of the SD card helps with SD versions to some extent. I bought a 16GB class 10 Wintec for that purpose, and it seems to do well. At that point, battery nonwithstanding, would be it worth it to go to a NAND build or would the speedy MicroSD make up most (if not all) the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say NAND write operations take longer than an SD card but for the life of me I still find it faster when a ROM is running completely off NAND than off NAND and an SD-EXT partition. Or, NAND versus full-SD- there is a huge difference in responsiveness between read speeds. They are much faster on NAND than even a fast SD card.
Hope that helps...
benc88 said:
I know that so far NAND is more complicated ....
with 2 or even 3 partitions, from EXT2/3/4, < who knows which is best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can be more complicated... until you do it once or twice and fully understand how it works. Now that this has all been out a while everything is starting to standardize and more and more ROM's are using the same partition layouts. From a performance perspective there really isn't anything noticeable between EXT 2/3/4.
Oh, most ROM's now also use CWM, which along with an SD-EXT partition can leave you with up to 7 different partitions on your device. Fortunately, you don't really have to manage any of them as the ROM's do all the work once you've set it up once.
benc88 said:
I have found SD builds to score higher in flops and quadrant than NAND however which is strange. SD is easier to copy to device, other than that im sure all custom roms have their issues. including screen light on lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is due to a slower write speed of NAND storage versus SD storage. But, because the read speed of NAND storage is higher you still get an overall feel of greater responsiveness and speed even though the scores are lower. NAND ROM's are easier to backup and manage via the CWM aspect.
I mean, if they are equally as stable, why isn't every developer doing RAM versions to get the most possible speed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possible problem may be higher amount of RAM needed. Especially sense builds would need a lot of RAM.
I have to disagree with a lot of what the post above mine said... The main difference between NAND and SD builds is with NAND builds you can use clockwork recovery, remove and replace your SD card while booted in android, and maybe a few other small improvement in stability and performance, but nothing too noticeable. Speed and battery life are about the same. You might get a little better battery life on standby with NAND. I generally got 3-5ma drain on standby with NAND, while I get 4-6ma on standby with SD. Speed and performance are pretty much the same because when you're running something with either type of build, it does it from RAM with either type of build. When an app or a process is running, it goes into ram, regardless of where the info was stored. NAND and SD are just the 2 options of where the data is stored when it's not being used by ram. Actually, the NAND in the HD2 can be slower than the NAND in good quality SD cards... but the random access speed is good in the HD2 NAND. But with a high quality SD card, you can get just as good random access speed with SD. That is what makes the performance difference with different SD cards... when the OS is trying to access small amounts of data or write small amounts of data, different SD cards will take different amounts of time to access... and the class rating of the card has nothing to do with that... in fact, class 2 cards tend to have better random access times than class 6 or 10.
But anyways, if you have a good SD card, performance and battery life are about the same... depending on the build of course. Desire HD builds tend to run a little better on NAND... but some recent SD DesireHD builds are good, too. AOSP and CM builds run pretty much the same off of SD and NAND as far as I can tell.
RAM builds work by loading more of the OS files into RAM at startup so that the random access speed of them is improved greatly, since RAM is the fastest memory and where any data is loaded to run anyways... it cuts down on the need to access the SD card for as many small system files, which improves performance and battery life in theory. The RAM is used anyways, so it doesn't use any more power keeping extra data in RAM, and since the SD card isn't accessed as much, it saves power there. But SD doesn't use much power anyways, so it's not really a noticeable power reduction. Also, RAM builds are still pretty experimental, and can have problems with data corruption... if any changes made to the os are not recorded to the SD, then if you lose power suddenly, there can be problems. Also, keeping all those system files in RAM causes you tohave less RAM available to run other apps and such... thats why there's no RAM builds for DesireHD builds, because there's not enough RAM. Personally, I never noticed too much of an increase in RAM builds performance compared to other AOSP SD builds like JDMS. Also, I'm not sure why, but I don't think RAM builds worked very good with NAND. But in theory, the system files in RAM is a good idea, especially for SD cards so it takes some stress off the SD cards. When running a build off SD, your accessing the SD to read and write system files while also accessing it as normal to run your apps or play your music or other data you have on SD. Keeping system files in RAM cuts down on the work the SD needs to do in the same way installing android to NAND does... then the SD is just used to access your media files or apps or data.
So in the end, it all depends on what you want from your phone... if you are not going to use winmo or wp7, and only use android, you might as well put android on nand, even if the improvement isn't that noticeable, because you can then use clockwork for easy updating or flashing roms, and you can change out your sd card, and there may be other small improvements. But if you still use winmo or wp7, then you have to decide if it's worth losing the ability to run more than one OS to give your android the added functionality of clockwork and other improvements. I use android on NAND for a month or so, but I didn't like how it turned my phone into just another android phone... it couldn't do anything that you couldn't do with a desire or evo or other android phone. But with the ability to run winmo or wp7 also, it's the only phone that can do it this well. When wp7 was released for the HD2, it was perfect for me because I wanted to try that OS out, and now I love that OS almost as much as android... I would have a hard time picking between the 2... luckily I don't have to. No other phone can run both of those OS's, either... I feel like I'm really making use of my HD2. If I just wanted android, I would've bought a native android phone from the beginning. But the great thing about the HD2 is no matter what OS you want, the HD2 can do it. People who want just android can make their HD2s almost like a native android phone now that it has clockwork recovery support. People who want 2 OS's can do that too. Android runs great from both SD and NAND... so use what works for you.
the battery life in android roms, is better than original windows mobile?
speed battery and efficiency are the main reasons
Yes it has a beter battery life (imo)
Ram is faster memory wich will make everything very fast, but you have to fuzz with Windows Mobile (?) to get there and that is what people dont like, the I/O on RAM is very fast, thats nice and makes quadrant scores very high
Class 10 card is good for SD versions, but imo that is very outdated, NAND is the way to go, like real Android devices loaded from the phone memory, not ram or sd, wich gives a beter battery life and fast speed (almost like stock) .. and also important , no fuzz with Windows Mobile.
And rest of the data wich isnt on your phone mem can be get of your SD card with a NAND version, cause the phone mem doesnt have rly that much space left after u installed Android on it (enough for enough apps though), class 10 mostly means a faster speed, so it will benefit you in some way
zarathustrax said:
I have to disagree with a lot of what the post above mine said...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense at all, but I really tried to read your massive wall of text but I got lost after the first sentence.
I beleive that the custom android roms do last longer than original winmo. I love this 2.3.2 rom on my HD2. 2.3.2 on my gf's mytouch 4g last about 18 hours on moderate call/text/ use with overclocked on 1.3
Azerox said:
speed battery and efficiency are the main reasons
Yes it has a beter battery life (imo)
Ram is faster memory wich will make everything very fast, but you have to fuzz with Windows Mobile (?) to get there and that is what people dont like, the I/O on RAM is very fast, thats nice and makes quadrant scores very high
Class 10 card is good for SD versions, but imo that is very outdated, NAND is the way to go, like real Android devices loaded from the phone memory, not ram or sd, wich gives a beter battery life and fast speed (almost like stock) .. and also important , no fuzz with Windows Mobile.
And rest of the data wich isnt on your phone mem can be get of your SD card with a NAND version, cause the phone mem doesnt have rly that much space left after u installed Android on it (enough for enough apps though), class 10 mostly means a faster speed, so it will benefit you in some way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for ex in win mobile, using the hd2 moderatly, how long the battery survive? and in android?
Wow! Lots of great info here!
I have been playing back and forth with different OS's and builds and SD builds and NAND builds etc. My phone is probably screaming at me to give it a break
As per responsiveness, the NAND builds (non-sense) seem to be a little snappier than the SD ones for me. The battery life seems about the same. Haven't had a problem with NAND space as I bought a US HD2 with 1 gig of ROM space, which is plenty for me. I haven't actually delved into the WM7 yet, but after reading this, I think I might give it a whirl and see what happens.
The biggest difference for me between the Android Nand/SD builds was the initial loading times. Which makes not that much of a difference because I tend not to turn off my phone anyhow.
The 2nd biggest difference is the wake from standby. On almost all the SD builds I tried, I would hit the hangup button, and the screen would come on in like 1/3-1/2 a second. If I accidentally hit it twice, I would have to wait 3-4 seconds for it to work properly again.... more presses seemed to do nothing. On a NAND build, it seems like the screen comes on instantly, and does not have the repress issue. But, then again, this is not a big issue for me at all.
The fastest build, by far, that I have tried so far is the Hyperdroid v5 build. It really does respond faster than almost anything I have put on the phone.
Thanks for all the answers people! It really helped to fill in the gaps in my admittedly shaky knowledge!
Digital Outcast said:
No offense at all, but I really tried to read your massive wall of text but I got lost after the first sentence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, sorry about that... I tend to try to fit too much info into a post all at once and I sometimes don't organize it well. I'll also ramble on sometimes to get everything out I'm trying to say and it ends up making the reader miss a lot of the important parts.
zarathustrax said:
Yeah, sorry about that... I tend to try to fit too much info into a post all at once and I sometimes don't organize it well. I'll also ramble on sometimes to get everything out I'm trying to say and it ends up making the reader miss a lot of the important parts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i understood it quite well..i think u have alot of valid points.. There arent big differences between sd/ram/nand...its a matter of choice imo..
11111
11111lllllllllllllllllllllllll
if its on sd card it will still load into android after turning off everytime right? i dont want to see windows anymore at all
zarathustrax said:
I have to disagree with a lot of what the post above mine said... The main difference between NAND and SD builds is with NAND builds you can use clockwork recovery, remove and replace your SD card while booted in android, and maybe a few other small improvement in stability and performance, but nothing too noticeable. Speed and battery life are about the same.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your post it has the best thought out points for and against, and greatly helped me in deciding which build to go for.
I need your help due to I'm gonna get this device and I want to know few things about it:
1. I come from Milestone with a close bootloader so, even that we were able to get gingerbread 2.3.4 running with few issues which the most are related to RAM (256) so multitasking is almost impossible and also for gaming what I'm not keen of, but sometimes I like to play gameloft games like : modern combat 2, Oddisey, Eternal Legancy, Sandstorm and so on, but milestone cannot handle that which finally got back home or even reboot device!!! Nothing to say if we talk about emulators(psx)..
So how about HD2 behaves with its few more RAM, I dunno much, but I think you can swap... so how it goes?
2. OverClocking: milestone has ARM7 550 and we can OC till 1.2 without any issue, so how about HTC HD2??
3. I ve got in mind to put android in Nand and WP7 on sd-card and I read that WP7 destroyed sd-cards, is that true?
So whatever reply will be more than welcome!
Thanks in advance
Sent from my Milestone Powered by Gingerbread
With the extra ram the hd2 does droid very well - still a few issues on Gingerbread but its improving all the time
You can overclock if you wish - try using the search option, but imho its not needed and the phone can do without the extra heat
gameloft games work on some but not all droid roms, I think most of the froyo do and some if not all of the GB don't - again you need to do a bit more research
I have no experience of Win 7 but the search option is still working - good luck
johnerz said:
With the extra ram the hd2 does droid very well - still a few issues on Gingerbread but its improving all the time
You can overclock if you wish - try using the search option, but imho its not needed and the phone can do without the extra heat
gameloft games work on some but not all droid roms, I think most of the froyo do and some if not all of the GB don't - again you need to do a bit more research
I have no experience of Win 7 but the search option is still working - good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok! I do know about that button, thank you, but as u can see I'm using Tapatalk cos' I'm out and I don't have my laptop so the seach button in Tapatalk is a little useless, nvm!
Thanks for replying, and yes with milestone running froyo ROMs is possible as well, I was refering when running gingerbread Roms.
Anyother answer?
Sent from my Milestone Powered by Gingerbread
Yes, I've never ran out of RAM when playing a game. The only time I've ever ran out of ram is when I'm watching a 20min video and I've passed the 10min mark or somewhere near. Beware however, if you're concerned of RAM, stay away from sense builds as these take up a lot, stock/cyano leave you with a hefty amount.
All gameloft games I've tested work well with the HD2, don't think i remember any bad experiences.
Overclock to 1.5ghz, but at that point it's not safe and you will face issues. For some, overclocking to any is a no no also.
No it doesn't, it only formats your sd card in way it cannot be read by anything else, so just reformat the sd card and it's brand new.
sdtaddey said:
I need your help due to I'm gonna get this device and I want to know few things about it:
1. I come from Milestone with a close bootloader so, even that we were able to get gingerbread 2.3.4 running with few issues which the most are related to RAM (256) so multitasking is almost impossible and also for gaming what I'm not keen of, but sometimes I like to play gameloft games like : modern combat 2, Oddisey, Eternal Legancy, Sandstorm and so on, but milestone cannot handle that which finally got back home or even reboot device!!! Nothing to say if we talk about emulators(psx)..
So how about HD2 behaves with its few more RAM, I dunno much, but I think you can swap... so how it goes?
2. OverClocking: milestone has ARM7 550 and we can OC till 1.2 without any issue, so how about HTC HD2??
3. I ve got in mind to put android in Nand and WP7 on sd-card and I read that WP7 destroyed sd-cards, is that true?
So whatever reply will be more than welcome!
Thanks in advance
Sent from my Milestone Powered by Gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. i think we have enough ram on the hd2. i'am running modern combat without any issues and psx emulator is working well too.
eternal legacy is a little bit laggy on my hd2 but i think that's because of the bad gpu. but it's still playable good.
2. the hd2 runs without problems on 1.2 GHz, some kernels even allow to overclock to 1.5 without issues.
3. you can't put windows phone 7 on the sd card. it's only runnable from nand. you could take wp on nand and android on sd but not the other way round.
and wp isn't messing up sd card as far as i know. it's just formatting it in a different file system which can't be read from a pc. but if you reformat your card to fat you will get back the full size.
Newbie
Wow, I just discover this forum. I think I'm in love
Ok, thank you all for your replies! !!
I think, I will enjoy very much this device, also I will need a tons of reading ;-)
Sent from my Milestone Powered by Gingerbread
the hd2 is the king!
but before you do anything please read, it is all on here, most folk get stuck because they have not read things properly, if youve searched, read and understood everything and you still have questions then ask away, id ask in the correct sub forum tho, your more likely to get the answers you need from folk that are using it, good luck and have fun, Welcome to the HD2 forum