Related
Hey,
I am NOT a dev, but I would like to know what kind of work work is going to be required now that gingerbread is on the forefront?
For example, VPlayer, doesn't work... it FC... How much work is it going to take to get the program back up and running???
Im just asking because, as much as I hate to admit it, fragmentation (as everyone calls it) is going to start causing issues. I get that google wants to offer the best and the latest and greatest, but if everytime a new API get sent out, and devs' have to rewrite their work, how much time is it going to take to get the proggy back up and running??
Thanks!
Theo
theomajigga said:
I am NOT a dev,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should've stop right there.
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
borodin1 said:
You should've stop right there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, I didn't ask for you to be a ****, if I would have posted this in the dev forum that would have prompted you to respond as such.
borodin1 said:
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the answer, i guess.
borodin1 said:
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that that is out of the way, can I ask you HOW you can honestly say that Android isn't fragmented. Seriously ask your self... I LOVE android, I really do, G1-cliq-MT3G-Nexus One-HD2(androided)-MT4G, but I can't even lie about that. There is 9 API levels!! 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0.1, 2.0, 1.6, 1.5, 1.1, 1.0.
NOW I DO UNDERSTAND THAT ALMOST 45% ARE ON 2.2 and 40% ARE ON 2.1.
Ok, so now most apps are going to be working on that 84% of phones running level 7+.
But this ALSO doesn't account for the manufacture API's that are implemented buy some of them, which I KNOW causes some problems. (skype on the Samsung Galaxy Series) just to name one very big one. Skype works on other devices with 2.1, but it doesn't on the Samsung 2.1? as a consumer, I'd ask wtf, even with their limited knowledge of android.
Fragmentation is defined as is the inability to "write once and run anywhere". Rovio complained about this. Albeit not directly, but they said that they were having issues with people on some phones, with some versions of software, and that it wasn't going to work across the board.
I hate to admit it but there are certain things that need to be done to insure that Android will not only be the "Mobile OS" but it will also be the demanded one (IMHO):
1. Cut the bull**** manufacture stuff out, make only ONE set of API's, with 0 proprietary API's. Make it stuff that you can get if you want through the Android Market (custom UI's and such).
2. Control the god-damn market, find spammers, find shady devs re-uploading their apps multiple times to get ad dollars.
3. Get everybody on board to updates, require that all devices with X specifications be updated Y months after a source is released. That will get again get everyone on the same API level, and will make all apps compatible (maybe slow).
4. For the love of all holy, USE THE BEST COMPONENTS YOU CAN FIND! AND MAKE IT A STANDARD At least for the primary functions of the phone. For example, the Nexus One (my fave so far) did NOT have a competent touch screen, 2 point, and a BAD 2 point at that, and that is considered to be the new dev phone. Well who the HELL would want to dev for a platform that can only recognize two points (barely) that doesn't always even get them right? I sure as hell wouldn't. Finally I get the MT4G, the FIRST thing i did was test the touch screen, and guess what... It still is sub-par. 4 points, where my friends Galaxy S can do 6 or something. Now you are going to ask me, who uses 6 points idiot? Some games, do, and to top **** off, if you can't recognize 2 points properly, close together, how can some of the basic multi-touch functions work? (google maps on the N1)
I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm realistic. A mobile platform can't win like this.
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~damithch/df/device-fragmentation.htm
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Wrong Section, good question though
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Cm7 nightlies - no longer CM7 alpha
It's true that this is probably the wrong section and I'm a noob too but before they bring in the new rules about minimum postings in the developer section, I'll throw in my ten cents.
Background:
US T-Mobile version of Mytouch4G and had no reason to be unhappy with the stock Rom but just love to scratch an itch and see what happens.
In the pursuit of seeing what happens I successfully rooted the phone to the point of permanent S=off (but not complete unlock as I have no need for that yet)
and over the course of the last few weeks systematically installed and tested three of the froyo builds/ports available on this forum.
Each have their strengths and weakness which are clearly listed so I wont catalogue the details I'll just say the following:
It's a lotta lotta fun! there was a geek in me waiting to get out and I finally see what the true potential is with this platform (android) - It's probably unlimited.
Aside from the philosophical point of wanting to have the freedom to do whatever with and put whatever you want on the device, that rooting facilitates (I’m a veteran of two generation of iphones), there is also that practical point that rooting does unlock the full potential of the device available right now which includes a host of apps already on the market only for rooted devices.
I don’t want to go into all those possibilities here because they are covered in detail in any google search but let’s just say that once you’re on the other side of the proverbial fence, the grass really is greener.
I know I’m being vague at this point, but let me continue a little longer.
Having also owned a number of windows based htc devices through 2005-2008 I’m no stranger to htc sense and some of the useful little gadgets that they seem to have evolved to a fairly decent level in android and I’ll say this:
Take away the surface veneer which is not as bad in the MT4G as in some others (bloatware) and you find that the meat and potatoes of the platform/operating system is all android.
And it runs MUCH better without the crap. – forget about overclocking (which helps and is fun) loose the veneer and the device flies.
And what you lose in the process – a couple of apps – you replace immediately with comparable ones for free down at the market.
So – phone runs better, can do more, has a host of better looking ui’s and themes that all the talented developers on this forum are constantly pushing out – then what about the risks?
I haven’t had a single hitch – not one.
I’m as impulsive as the next guy but I just took it steady with the information overload – carefully rooted the phone and from there, flashing one rom after another has become no more complicated than booting into recovery – case closed.
It’s become second nature.
And I’ve had to do a double take once or twice when something didn’t play out exactly as described but I’ve discovered that I had overlooked a detail here and there and it’s an easy fix.
Point being that there are constant warnings and disclaimers for obvious reasons, but my device at least has turned out to be very hardy – no scares here.
So finally, I’ve been eyeing developments in the gingerbread camp like everyone else and I’ve been wary of the alpha builds because my zero level of expertise keeps me from playing in that league and I see early this morning that an official CM7 release is out for my model the glacier.
At first I run I into problems flashing Clockworkmod to 3.0 and even try to flash the rom and boot from 2.5 with the predictable conclusion of a stuck boot loop all the while not really knowing what to expect from this ginger hype and whether it’s really worth the trouble of leaving my now very stable cooked froyo rom.
Someone then creates the thread a few lines up describing how to simply use rom manager to install the update for CWM 3.0 and at 2am I’m on my way.
I flash the rom and install the additional google apps and what do I find?
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
I won’t be overclocking it as a rule but I get 2805 on quadrant – previous high being in the 2500’s (each chip is actually different so I’ve heard that everyones score will vary)
The device has no lags, splutters, and runs quite literally incredibly.
and the look and feel of gingerbread? – I’ll add to what I said earlier – it’s amazing – it’s a moving graphical, visual feast.
It will seriously rain on apple’s parade when this thing hits the main stream and I think quite honestly that it’s the greatest mobile device operating system ever created.
I know I’m gushing but it really is that good and considerably more impressive than froyo while having the same core navigation and other functionality.
I won’t be going back.
I won’t endorse taking risks with your device but I’ll say it’s worth taking a look.
A few afterthoughts for those asking the questions:
There is a brand new version of the market packaged with the 20110115 version of the larger gapps file floating around on this forum – it also rocks!
Although most apps available on the market have not yet been updated for gb 2.3, they all work so far on my machine with one or two unimportant exeptions.
I’ve replaced all sense functionality with free apps off the market – no loss there.
The device runs smoothly and all functionality is tested and working in the latest release - great job guys doing the work here.
Long and the short of it being …it’s all good.
hope that helps.
Definitely worth a flash to try yourself. I mean it's CyanogenMod so how could it not be good?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would be very surprised at how extremely stable these roms are. I've been running them for a few weeks now and they're definitely stable enough to be your daily driver.
The main thing to consider is that Sense is a highly customized ROM while CyanogenMod is based on Pure Google with some additional configurations available.
Try it out, it's pretty easy to go back if you don't like it. For a while there I was nandroiding back and forth between Sense and CM6 about twice a week, lol.
CM7 some after thoughts
Continuing from my earlier post, I thought I would head off a few questions about observable differences in gingerbread - well the CM7 incarnation:
Android market loads and populates faster.
The wireless radio picks up signals/networks faster and connects gracefully and quickly.
All aspects of the functionality of the whole system and each individual app seems to be smoother and more efficient.
Youtube no longer has that annoying glitch coming out of landscape.
My new 16bg class 6 mini sdhc card finally works and no longer gives me the blank card or damaged card bull crap every time I unmount or remount from usb mode – didn’t expect that one and had resigned myself to going back to the stock 8gb card it shipped with.
The app drawer pops out at you in what seems like 3d while leaving the background wallpaper intact. – so the app drawer just floats while you scroll through it.
Every aspect of the device and systems are customizable – I mean everything – probably in part due to the efforts of the CM7 team.
The stock gingerbread phone dialer app is changed for the better and is obviously one of many enhancements including the ability to program your sip (voip) settings straight into the phone doing away with third party apps altogether to make or receive calls (if you’re into voip)
You’ll have to dig around to find the .apk for the stock car/navigation mode app and I solved that riddle by downloading the free android app(car home) from the market and also installing a third party app (car mode control) which is used to launch it – I’ve been lazy and haven’t investigated yet whether it’s actually necessary to have the go between, but it works.
and swype, if you want it, can be downloaded direct from the guys that developed it at the beta.swype page (wasn't allowed to post the link) - by simply registering to test the latest beta, which is better than in the stock MT4G rom.
Someone report the first post to have this moved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Whosdaman said:
Someone report the first post to have this moved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't realize it had to be reported. I always assumed that because you're a mod you can do whatever the hell you want.
Well in your case just pick current RC fork from repository and use it normally you don't have to wait for the SR fork. Unless you are dev I don't see why you would want to flash it every night unless you understand basic and even in that case weekly might be fine. I been there done that as flashing new rom everyday as it came down the pipe I tried few CM7A few times let the dev do more work as ill make that my rom when SR is out, ATM have IGv1.1.6 as I flashed it this afternoon.
matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you thought your phone was fast out of the box, this is faster. If you thought it was a bit laggy (like me), it's like getting a brand new phone.
Also, having better experiences with CM7 GB on MT4G than I ever did on my Nexus S. This is saying a lot.
ZeroSX said:
Also, having better experiences with CM7 GB on MT4G than I ever did on my Nexus S. This is saying a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me. Such a smoother experience all around.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
I just flashed & I must say it is a much smoother expericence. I love it & its not even a stable build.
matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this your first Android phone? Have you ever played with a Pure Google Experience Android phone? If you're nervous about the CM7 builds, try CM6. Easier to flash since you don't need to manually flash the recovery and it will give you a feel for CyanogenMod and the Pure Android feel.
Think of the G2, that comes with plain Android right out of the box. Go to a T-mobile store and poke around with it to see if you like it.
I simply cannot stand the HTC Sense stuff... Personal preference.
I had CM6.1 for a couple weeks and I am VERY happy with it. I am waiting another week or so to start using the CM7 builds just because I have been too busy with other stuff.
neuralboy said:
It's true that this is probably the wrong section and I'm a noob too but before they bring in the new rules about minimum postings in the developer section, I'll throw in my ten cents.
Background:
US T-Mobile version of Mytouch4G and had no reason to be unhappy with the stock Rom but just love to scratch an itch and see what happens.
In the pursuit of seeing what happens I successfully rooted the phone to the point of permanent S=off (but not complete unlock as I have no need for that yet)
and over the course of the last few weeks systematically installed and tested three of the froyo builds/ports available on this forum.
Each have their strengths and weakness which are clearly listed so I wont catalogue the details I'll just say the following:
It's a lotta lotta fun! there was a geek in me waiting to get out and I finally see what the true potential is with this platform (android) - It's probably unlimited.
Aside from the philosophical point of wanting to have the freedom to do whatever with and put whatever you want on the device, that rooting facilitates (I’m a veteran of two generation of iphones), there is also that practical point that rooting does unlock the full potential of the device available right now which includes a host of apps already on the market only for rooted devices.
I don’t want to go into all those possibilities here because they are covered in detail in any google search but let’s just say that once you’re on the other side of the proverbial fence, the grass really is greener.
I know I’m being vague at this point, but let me continue a little longer.
Having also owned a number of windows based htc devices through 2005-2008 I’m no stranger to htc sense and some of the useful little gadgets that they seem to have evolved to a fairly decent level in android and I’ll say this:
Take away the surface veneer which is not as bad in the MT4G as in some others (bloatware) and you find that the meat and potatoes of the platform/operating system is all android.
And it runs MUCH better without the crap. – forget about overclocking (which helps and is fun) loose the veneer and the device flies.
And what you lose in the process – a couple of apps – you replace immediately with comparable ones for free down at the market.
So – phone runs better, can do more, has a host of better looking ui’s and themes that all the talented developers on this forum are constantly pushing out – then what about the risks?
I haven’t had a single hitch – not one.
I’m as impulsive as the next guy but I just took it steady with the information overload – carefully rooted the phone and from there, flashing one rom after another has become no more complicated than booting into recovery – case closed.
It’s become second nature.
And I’ve had to do a double take once or twice when something didn’t play out exactly as described but I’ve discovered that I had overlooked a detail here and there and it’s an easy fix.
Point being that there are constant warnings and disclaimers for obvious reasons, but my device at least has turned out to be very hardy – no scares here.
So finally, I’ve been eyeing developments in the gingerbread camp like everyone else and I’ve been wary of the alpha builds because my zero level of expertise keeps me from playing in that league and I see early this morning that an official CM7 release is out for my model the glacier.
At first I run I into problems flashing Clockworkmod to 3.0 and even try to flash the rom and boot from 2.5 with the predictable conclusion of a stuck boot loop all the while not really knowing what to expect from this ginger hype and whether it’s really worth the trouble of leaving my now very stable cooked froyo rom.
Someone then creates the thread a few lines up describing how to simply use rom manager to install the update for CWM 3.0 and at 2am I’m on my way.
I flash the rom and install the additional google apps and what do I find?
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
I won’t be overclocking it as a rule but I get 2805 on quadrant – previous high being in the 2500’s (each chip is actually different so I’ve heard that everyones score will vary)
The device has no lags, splutters, and runs quite literally incredibly.
and the look and feel of gingerbread? – I’ll add to what I said earlier – it’s amazing – it’s a moving graphical, visual feast.
It will seriously rain on apple’s parade when this thing hits the main stream and I think quite honestly that it’s the greatest mobile device operating system ever created.
I know I’m gushing but it really is that good and considerably more impressive than froyo while having the same core navigation and other functionality.
I won’t be going back.
I won’t endorse taking risks with your device but I’ll say it’s worth taking a look.
A few afterthoughts for those asking the questions:
There is a brand new version of the market packaged with the 20110115 version of the larger gapps file floating around on this forum – it also rocks!
Although most apps available on the market have not yet been updated for gb 2.3, they all work so far on my machine with one or two unimportant exeptions.
I’ve replaced all sense functionality with free apps off the market – no loss there.
The device runs smoothly and all functionality is tested and working in the latest release - great job guys doing the work here.
Long and the short of it being …it’s all good.
hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you see a link for an official CM7 release for this phone?!?!
Q.Entity said:
I simply cannot stand the HTC Sense stuff... Personal preference.
I had CM6.1 for a couple weeks and I am VERY happy with it. I am waiting another week or so to start using the CM7 builds just because I have been too busy with other stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know that's how I felt when I bought the phone. I kept thinking about returning it for a G2 just to get plain Android. Ironically, by the time I finally rooted my phone and flashed CM6, Sense had grown on me to the point that I kept nandroiding back and using it by choice. Ha!
Now I've been on cm7 for a few days and I'm pretty happy with it.
CM7 official nightlies
I can't post a link out but the link to the CM7 builds is usually towards the top of the mytouch 4G Android Developement forum page.
It's constantly being updated and it looks like the latest build takes care of a number of little issues including swype, google car home and maybe the apps pack too
To those voting not to flash, have you tried CM7? What's keeping you from being happy with it?
I just flashed it myself and am pretty happy with it. The experience is much more consistent than the stock Sense ROM, gingerbread is really fast/smooth, and CM7 adds a lot of options for customization. Wifi isn't working though.
matkam said:
To those voting not to flash, have you tried CM7? What's keeping you from being happy with it?
I just flashed it myself and am pretty happy with it. The experience is much more consistent than the stock Sense ROM, gingerbread is really fast/smooth, and CM7 adds a lot of options for customization. Wifi isn't working though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reboot for wifi to work.
BTW, CM7 is slick as an iced glacier.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
neuralboy said:
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has got to be the biggest fanboism i've every heard on any forum. Gingerbread is not that different from FroYo. It looks the same it feels. it acts the same.
To the OP If you want to flash the most current baked variant of Android then by all means flash away. If not FroYo will serve your needs just fine.
so im using the ics rom and looks great. I know its an alpha build so there aire things to polish. But im having nightmares about ics been like honeycomb when it came out...apps not working, games not been supported yet, the same thing that happen from 3.0 to 3.1 to 3.2 everything had to be repatched to work. I'm seen games doing the same thing. Dead space worked fine on 3.2 now it works like in 3.1 the screen only works in portrait mode. Modern Combat 3 doesn't even load,gta 3 closing every minute (like game loft games from 3.1 to 3.2) I just hope that when the official from gets a release...everything is patched to work. I don't hate pics but am afraid I'll have o wait 3 months to things to work.
jerses said:
so im using the ics rom and looks great. I know its an alpha build so there aire things to polish. But im having nightmares about ics been like honeycomb when it came out...apps not working, games not been supported yet, the same thing that happen from 3.0 to 3.1 to 3.2 everything had to be repatched to work. I'm seen games doing the same thing. Dead space worked fine on 3.2 now it works like in 3.1 the screen only works in portrait mode. Modern Combat 3 doesn't even load,gta 3 closing every minute (like game loft games from 3.1 to 3.2) I just hope that when the official from gets a release...everything is patched to work. I don't hate pics but am afraid I'll have o wait 3 months to things to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it will take awhile for app developers to get up to speed with ICS but more of them will have the incentive to do so as all devices will eventually be running on it.
Yes I just hope that doesn't take more than 3 months...in time of a devices that is an eternity. Why does everything have to be patched or re downloaded to work every update that comes out. But I guess I'll have to go with the flow and accept ics as my new Savior
jerses said:
Yes I just hope that doesn't take more than 3 months...in time of a devices that is an eternity. Why does everything have to be patched or re downloaded to work every update that comes out. But I guess I'll have to go with the flow and accept ics as my new Savior
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, think about it, this is a new version of the Android operating system so not everything is going to be compatible out-the-box. Remember, PC operating systems are the same. When you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7, some applications that were fine on XP just don't work properly on 7 and it's up to the application developer to fix it for the new version.
Same with Android. Google provided the ICS SDK a while ago so app devs have had a while to make their apps compatible before ICS was actually released, but sometimes people just don't have as much time to do stuff like this as we would like so we just need to wait patiently for the devs to fix their apps. (Of course, if it's a paid app, emailing them for a timeline isn't out of the question).
Welcome to being an early adopter.
jerses said:
so im using the ics rom and looks great. I know its an alpha build so there aire things to polish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is where you went wrong. There's not just things that need polish, there's things that still need to be developed. Betas are for polish. They're still in nightly phase right now, its expected that there be a laundry list of imperfections and outright non-functioning features. They're also missing some rather important code (the binaries for a few things) meaning its still going to be a while before some things like the cameras can even begin to function. Additionally, we rely on app developers transitioning to ICS support. This will take time.
Have patience. We are in the early, early phases. ICS is proving to be more powerful than I ever imagined (its ridiculously fast) and with some time it will be refined quite well.
Cubanluke88 said:
This is where you went wrong. There's not just things that need polish, there's things that still need to be developed. Betas are for polish. They're still in nightly phase right now, its expected that there be a laundry list of imperfections and outright non-functioning features. They're also missing some rather important code (the binaries for a few things) meaning its still going to be a while before some things like the cameras can even begin to function. Additionally, we rely on app developers transitioning to ICS support. This will take time.
Have patience. We are in the early, early phases. ICS is proving to be more powerful than I ever imagined (its ridiculously fast) and with some time it will be refined quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im nota worried about this rom inknown devs are hard working and will make aun awsome ir nota better ics rom. What im worried mis about apps support. I just hope it doesnt take that mucho like hc did.
jerses said:
Im nota worried about this rom inknown devs are hard working and will make aun awsome ir nota better ics rom. What im worried mis about apps support. I just hope it doesnt take that mucho like hc did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding app support, please see my earlier post and please understand that it is down to each individual app developer to update their app, as it is with EVERY operating system, the ROM team can do nothing about this.
Hi All
Seems to be a bit backward to not be able to post in the development section, but rules are rules I suppose.
I bought a Xoom a couple of months ago and put on Moray on a UK wifi Xoom. Very impressed and jumped onto ICS with the initial ICS release then played about with nightlys up to version twelve today.
OTG still not working for me, it crashes USB watcher OTG as well.
Music app does not get mentioned, but its terrible. Only small icons and no proper options ?
Camera and Mic were not tried as they are obviosly broken due to missing binaries.
It also seems backward to have widgets only on the apps page.
Battery options made the battery read zero, then made it disappear from the tray as well.
Browser does seem slicker, but back to Moray and its not a huge difference to be fair.
Have issues with various Apps. This makes sense as they still need to get up to speed with ICS. But it does concern me when people say its the best thing ever, when nothing can work as advertised. HW videos are hit and miss. I am also sure I read a while back that ICS would be all singing, why do I need a Ext mount app to write to an external card, same as OTG ? I thought that this would be part of the main build ?
So from my own personal experience, its a change, but until you have a full package with working apps, hardware, then I think people need to calm down with their plaudits for ICS.
I think I will leave the nightlys for a while, but it was great to try, and thanks for the guys putting the effort in making/updating these things.
I'm going to say this with as much respect as I can:
You have zero idea what the development section is about with statements like that.
Stick to stock software if you want a device that works as intended.
Development and custom roms always have caveats and pitfalls.
Thanks for stopping by!
Regarding not being able to post in dev section - it's for development only not questions and a lot of new users start new threads and ask a lot of questions! It makes sense the way it s.
You have to remember that these are alpha builds which are not supposed to be complete or fully working. A lot of devs wouldn't even put these out at this stage because of instability issues. But I am SOOO glad that the EOS team have decided to share these awesome ICS build with us because it may take weeks or even months to get to a full build release or an official Moto release. I know you aren't trying to bash the devs but I have to disagree with your opinions. I love ICS so far. It's fast, fluid and looks great.
Agreed with the widget option. Think the HC way was better but it's a minor issue compared to the speed improvements.
In essence though, I think if the full product is what you want you should stay away from alpha or even beta builds. Stick with full or official releases. Most people who test these roms understand this.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
aside from the camera and the mic i have had zero problems with anything i do on the xoom on a regular basis.
if it's an alpha build, it's a hell of an alpha build.
the only thing was it took me a bit to get all the gapps working and to the most current versions
Hi
Well my point was I don't have to be a Dev to know when things are not working. OTG is not working, and this is not a statement saying it has to, but merely a way of reporting it.
Nobody has mentioned the battery dissapears if you change the settings.
People seemed to be obsessed with Google Maps working, but since this is a great media player the bugs seem to be getting left out of the threads.
Now I know there is a lot missing, but why no OTG support built in ? Is this just a Motorola thing ?
I think there has to be a devils advocate here, everyone saying its fast is great, but if you are just using this as a browser, then its not a great indication about how good ICS is.
And to the chap who said I had no idea about Dev things, you are 100 % correct. But this is not aimed at anyone doing the nightlys, this is an ICS comparison. I am sure if Motorola release a version of ICS! Then it would get mentioned, how there are also some annoying new things not hardware or nightly release related. As I said the Music player is abysmal, the widgets is hidden away. The apps selector looks smaller, and some other little things.
So all I am trying to say is yes it seems faster, but since its only partly there, and we shrug when things don't work correctly, does not mean that is is the best thing ever. When we have a full version and all the binaries are working, then we will see the real speed ?
xoom68 said:
Hi
Well my point was I don't have to be a Dev to know when things are not working. OTG is not working, and this is not a statement saying it has to, but merely a way of reporting it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't tested it but others in the thread have and say it's working.
Nobody has mentioned the battery dissapears if you change the settings.
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Click to collapse
It's in the official bug tracker.
Now I know there is a lot missing, but why no OTG support built in ? Is this just a Motorola thing ?
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Click to collapse
At this point the ICS builds are all straight from source so not a moto thing but see above.
So all I am trying to say is yes it seems faster, but since its only partly there, and we shrug when things don't work correctly, does not mean that is is the best thing ever. When we have a full version and all the binaries are working, then we will see the real speed ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all well and good but if that's the way you think then stay away from alpha and beta builds. If you are only interested in the full working product wait for official release.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
Worst thread ever.
Alpha build!
Thanks for replying.
I don't know what defines a working OTG, but with Moray I used USB Mount watcher and I mounted a 1tb HD no problem. I thought I would not need an app, but no joy. This time when I tried the App it says it was built in. But it hangs at any attempt to identify the HD. Another mount app sees the HD, but can't mount it.
The battery thing I just noticed in the bug tracker, but no one mentioned it in the thread.
No one mentions the poor ICS music player or widgets.
I just see people obsessed with calendar and Google maps ?
And to all saying Alpha Build....considering Motorola never added OTG support to HC, but the custom roms did. My point is who is to say they will add it to ICS. I thought it was supposed to be standard. If people have to Root their device to get OTG and towrite to External SD. We have not come that far forward. And in fact the threads I readprevious to buying a Xoom had people waiting months for updates, are people really expecting a Motorola Ics within the next 6 months. This alpha build will not get any better until there are binaries, soapart from a few settings tweaks, it will stay Alpha for a long time I reckon.
I understand you saying stick to stock, but the built in things to ICS are poorer in relation to HC, I suppose no one mentions things in case they appear to be rude, but I think its better if people know the negatives as well, as it just seems to be people with Ice Cream tinted glasses at the moment
xoom68 said:
I understand you saying stick to stock, but the built in things to ICS are poorer in relation to HC, I suppose no one mentions things in case they appear to be rude, but I think its better if people know the negatives as well, as it just seems to be people with Ice Cream tinted glasses at the moment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again though, this is an alpha build so you cannot expect this to be fully working or all "built in" functions to be bug free.
If the current builds don't work for your daily needs that's fair enough, wait for a more complete build. But you cannot burn ICS on the strengths, or weaknesses, of an alpha build.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
Be happy that we are the only tablet that has a ICS build to be bug free enough to be a daily driver for a good portion of users.
(Wifi, GPU acceleration, netflix work perfectly, browser is very much improved)
I can't post in the development section either.
But a thread like this is just the place to boost my post count.
---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------
Ten characters.
Honestly, all I can really say to this... one step at a time, one day at a time.
You, as well as others, must understand and respect the fact that the developers here are putting in their own free time and effort to bring us these ROMs and extras, at absolutely no cost to you, the user.
Trying to tear apart tons code that has already been written to troubleshoot, fix problems, and test is hugely tedious and very time consuming.
Right now, I suggest not trying to put the cart before the horse. Simple things like asethetics, minor functionality (I.e. OTG, etc.) that is not crucial to the operation of the device is going to have to wait.
Important parts, like 3G/4G radio functionality, Google apps, video playback - the essentials come first.
Truthfully, I would not waste my time reporting the smaller issues, we know that they are there. When the developers get the foundation built and stable enough to work with, THEN will they ask for help with bug reporting and suggestions and such. No need to overwhelm the developers at this stage of the game.
Just my 2 cents.
xxspark89xx said:
Honestly, all I can really say to this... one step at a time, one day at a time.
You, as well as others, must understand and respect the fact that the developers here are putting in their own free time and effort to bring us these ROMs and extras, at absolutely no cost to you, the user.
Trying to tear apart tons code that has already been written to troubleshoot, fix problems, and test is hugely tedious and very time consuming.
Right now, I suggest not trying to put the cart before the horse. Simple things like asethetics, minor functionality (I.e. OTG, etc.) that is not crucial to the operation of the device is going to have to wait.
Important parts, like 3G/4G radio functionality, Google apps, video playback - the essentials come first.
Truthfully, I would not waste my time reporting the smaller issues, we know that they are there. When the developers get the foundation built and stable enough to work with, THEN will they ask for help with bug reporting and suggestions and such. No need to overwhelm the developers at this stage of the game.
Just my 2 cents.
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Click to collapse
Thank you for the great work you are doing on this. I can see that it can be slow going but you seem to be making good progress.
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
I think that leak does not come with the source code. Thus there will not be any practical improvement right now.
Or, most likely ever. I doubt things will go much farther, and I'm usually the optimistic one
no chance
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
Pixelguy said:
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
Having the kernel source would solve many issues, but after Motorola abandoned the device it's very unlikely they'll commit any more resources into releasing the half working source code. Of course we'd like to see the source released as it existed under development, but from what I understand, the the source that gets released isn't always exactly the same as what they work with when they compile it and things like extremely helpful comments in the code get removed because of things like NDA's. And although many of the libs and drivers can be extracted from the ROM, the code to use them has been lost.
As it stands, the Atrix Rebirth Project is probably the best chance for seeing a fully functional kernel source for ICS and beyond. But as has been pointed out already, interest in the device has been dying, and even if the project does manage to make it happen, it's not going to happen overnight.
Jotokun said:
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm i used pinters cm10 for a week and went back to MROM cm7 and customised it to my liking with ICS themes and text changers, looks just like ICS runs just as smooth as a buggy JB rom, thats the problem the performance of CM10 roms without HWA is about the same as a good CM7 rom... just with a few features like google now which nobody really uses anyway, although i understand where your coming from when it comes too the UI and animations on JB roms they are very nice but id rather sacrafice them and have a phone that will work 100%
I'm very naive to the inner workings of android
I also returned to mrom from epinters cm 10 and icsrom because of lack of camcorder or terrible battery life.
Now with mrom I have a very smooth launcher and all apps working. I do miss jellybeans nice interface, but what are the more fundamental improvements that gingerbread lacks? Besides feeling outdated and old of course :/
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Zero usefulness. Novelty item at best.
It's interesting to read opinion of no-developers is it something useful or not. Only developers could say something about it. Also most of you are so pessimistic, complaining that developing is dying.
xda-developers is for site and forum for developers. If you think that developing is dying, come on, do something about. Join Atrix Rebirth Project, start to learn how to develop kernel and rom. There is a lot of guides here and on Internet. Instead of spending time on forum and waiting that someone else do it for you and for free. If you don't have time to learn, contribute on another way: support developers, donate money or device, try to find solution, use your contacts to get leaked sources...
The easiest way is to buy a new device and start complain after a while
I have been very pleased with the stock GB rom. I have a Nexus 7 and an old HTC Aria, both running the latest version of JB and, other than a more up-to-date appearance, there's really nothing I can't do on the Atrix that I can do on the JB devices.
Its amazing what the developers have been able to do with the HTC Aria. It has very little memory, but they have created virtually unlimited program memory by using an extended partition on the SD card. The Aria also runs JB almost flawlessly.
If JB could run on the Atrix 4G the way it runs on my Aria, I would use it. But from what I've read, it has a long way to go. I am not even sure I would even be able to root my Atrix, which has the latest GB update from Motorola.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Slymayer said:
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right ! talking about this leak ... is a >small< step foward !
Just imagine Michael Montuori out of here, Or the Bill ?! epinter !? Faux, or jocker that has made a wonderfull job and the other in the early days of the atrix .... all source code builder out of this atrix family at once !
Well ... Motorola doesnt have a great support for the moment ! as their Blur OS is ****ty slow ! :S
I own a Car dock, A HD Multimedia Dock and a great lapdock !
I approve that this is still frustrating (and i know the devs out there are NOT getting Paid enough for a better work than MOTOROLA itself,) that motorola own product doesnt have support yet ! but still have on a direct DHMI cable straight to the tv !! WTF ?!?!!
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
Our devs are GREAT but unfortunately, we still need that damn MOTO support for their drivers source for the new OS :S
Meanwhile
sathelate said:
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
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Click to collapse
I would even say "Bordel à couilles de constructeur de mes deux !". I'm writing this using my lapock... On my tiny screen, with my main screen at 45° so I can still read what I'm writing. I dreamt about WT3.0 with working LAPDOCK, it would have been so gorgeous, but it's currently not happening. "Nique cette merde !", I'm buying a Windows Phone next year when the ecosystem gets more apps and stuff. The news are getting warmer for this OS ! The amazing keyboard made in WP7/8 will replace my lapdock I use as a keyboard.
Development IS actually dying, look at the Atrix 4G development section where there used to be several ROMs under active development there are now just a few. Nearly everything that can be done has been done with the exception of what the Atrix rebirth project is doing. But there is no guarantee of success. If you have the money or a device to donate to the rebirth project, great, by all means go for it. Maybe one of the other tegra based moto devices might help a bit too. Unfortanately I think it's pretty hard to hold any level of optimism for the device after such a long string of let downs.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I see the ICS leak as interesting but not overly useful.
Now, if they'd also leaked the source code, I don't doubt that the devs could have created a fully-features and stable ICS/JB within a couple of months. However, with no source for such a buggy leak, we're reliant on a few people trying to create a kernel almost from scratch. I wish them well, but I'm not holding my breath...
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
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Click to collapse
Like you? And you think that you're smart. That's exactly what vendors wish, get a new device. Bravo
Edit: With your latest posts in Atrix forum you're the same as maggedo or member with Atrix in name. Ups, you have Motorola
How long N4 will be the best device for you? What I see not so long
I think it's interesting how people work:
First everyone was crying about the fact, that Motorola left us out in the cold and now that we have a actually really good leak, people cry that it's not good enough... That's just sad. The leak is useful and it's a big step into the right direction. A lot of people put in hours of work for you (and for FREE!!!), to make this leak better. All you need is PATIENCE. Be grateful that some devs stick to this EOL-device and provide great work for us.
-Just my 2 cents-
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And... What about people who can't get a new device ? I bought mine like 6 months ago, it was for my birthday and I can't waste money on a newer phone like this.
But there must be some kind of "break-even" ahead.
How many hours of work and energy may be put from the most "valuable brains" into the leak (without having sourcecode), until they must decide: "enough is enough, it just will never turn out as "stable"?
From what I've understood there exists some good chances that maybe some day valuable parts of the XOOM kernel get migrated to the Atrix (see respective thread under development area).
May the last remaining devs of a dying device - whose work I greatly respect and appreciate! - join forces and turn more efforts into porting the xoom?