Database Users

Rant - Tablet Computing is really sucky

I have a Xoom WiFi only. What an amazing peice of kit. But it's crippled by the fact that Motorola or Google or whoever can't actually use the devices they make. I'm almost ready to throw mine in the bin it's so unusable.
- I had hoped I could use my Xoom on site rather than run round with my laptop, except I can't get files onto and off it easily. SyncToy won't play ball. I don't want to have to manually drag and drop each file in turn. Waste of time.
- Bluetooth and WiFi file transfer is just a missed opportunity
- SD card doesn't work
- Can't print reliably
- Simple features that are present on my HTC Desire are missing, like scheduling peak times for email polling so the wife doesn't get woken up at three in the morning if I forget to turn it off.
- Stupid stupid stupid stupid charger. No USB charging, which is supposed to be the universal standard. The charger is huge and the connector is so thin it'll break the first time someone trips over the cable.
- The Motorola Folio case is uggggggggly. Have these people not seen the Smart Cover for the iPad?
- I can stand the Xoom up in the folio case, but I can't charge it, because the charger connector is on the bottom. A poor attempt to get me to fork out more money for the charging dock I assume.
- Word, Excel etc, sort of work, but if you have headers and footers or anything like an automated spreadsheet, it ain't gonna work properly on Docs to Go or anything else for that matter. Good God, do these people not use the World's most dominant software?
It's great for games, and stuff though, but you CANNOT use it as a business tool; you'll spend all the time you were hoping to save in wrestling with the bloody thing.
The moral? Don't be an early(ish) adopter - I thought 6 months would be enough for Motorola to have this sorted.
TL;DR?
Rant over.

Sdcard is readable in 3.2 or u can simply root to make it fully usable
Usb charging is slow. The charger makes us can let our xoom fully charged super quiclly
The case for many ppl is nice
My bro bought it for business n he is quite happy with it

Have a lager and calm down, friend. I feel your pain.
However, you can save yourself a lot of grief by understanding that no matter what the marketing people say, a tablet is not a full laptop replacement yet, not even the iPad. You need to make some compromises if you intend to make full use of your Xoom while on the job.
First of all, lets discuss the charger. Moto opted not to allow the device to trickle charge simple because it would take far to long to fill the battery via a standard USB cable. Therefore they went for the dedicated charger which was a good choice under the circumstances. I agree I have worries to about the very thin connector, but they were working hard not to make the device too thick. THus far I have not brought the charger to the office because I have not had to charge the Xoom except for overnight. The battery can make it through a day pretty easily, so feel free to leave the charger behind and see how you do.
Next, Office apps. I agree, they are limited and are the same on pretty much every non-laptop you will try to work on. Key features are missing, other features work strangely...it gets ugly out there. Therefore, I try to restrict my Office app work on the Xoom to reading and making notes. I wouldn't try to actually create a document on the Xoom at this point, unless it was very short and/or I would be able to edit on my laptop later. I use the Polaris app that was provided with the Asus Transformer, which you should be able to find in the Xoom Apps forum here, and it actually does pretty well.
I have had good luck with Bluetooth transferring files, but it can take a while. You should try using the OTG connector in conjunction with a flash drive for larger files. It adds a step in the transfer but it works perfectly for me.
The folio case? I agree, ugly as sin. Therefore I go without a case during use since I really like the looks of the Xoom anyway. I put it into an iPad Exo Sleevecase from Waterfield (great company, great case) before putting it in my gear bag and it does just fine.
The Xoom is a fine business tool in my opinion, it just has its limitations. All tablets currently available are still at the stage where you are best off thinking of them as an extension of your laptop or desktop computer, not the whole shebang. Use it for the tasks it is suited for, and be creative with how you apply it to those tasks which are a bit beyond a tablet's skillset at the moment.
Remember, we went through a decade of clunky, useless TabletPCs before we suddenly had a burst of innovation (thanks Apple) to get to this point in mobile computing. We are still at the early stages...just think where we will be in a couple years. THAT is when tablets will really shine, and at the moment you are ahead of the curve, devising business use cases for tablets out of sheer necessity. That is not a bad place to be.

rschenck said:
Have a lager and calm down, friend. I feel your pain.
However, you can save yourself a lot of grief by understanding that no matter what the marketing people say, a tablet is not a full laptop replacement yet, not even the iPad. You need to make some compromises if you intend to make full use of your Xoom while on the job.
First of all, lets discuss the charger. Moto opted not to allow the device to trickle charge simple because it would take far to long to fill the battery via a standard USB cable. Therefore they went for the dedicated charger which was a good choice under the circumstances. I agree I have worries to about the very thin connector, but they were working hard not to make the device too thick. THus far I have not brought the charger to the office because I have not had to charge the Xoom except for overnight. The battery can make it through a day pretty easily, so feel free to leave the charger behind and see how you do.
Next, Office apps. I agree, they are limited and are the same on pretty much every non-laptop you will try to work on. Key features are missing, other features work strangely...it gets ugly out there. Therefore, I try to restrict my Office app work on the Xoom to reading and making notes. I wouldn't try to actually create a document on the Xoom at this point, unless it was very short and/or I would be able to edit on my laptop later. I use the Polaris app that was provided with the Asus Transformer, which you should be able to find in the Xoom Apps forum here, and it actually does pretty well.
I have had good luck with Bluetooth transferring files, but it can take a while. You should try using the OTG connector in conjunction with a flash drive for larger files. It adds a step in the transfer but it works perfectly for me.
The folio case? I agree, ugly as sin. Therefore I go without a case during use since I really like the looks of the Xoom anyway. I put it into an iPad Exo Sleevecase from Waterfield (great company, great case) before putting it in my gear bag and it does just fine.
The Xoom is a fine business tool in my opinion, it just has its limitations. All tablets currently available are still at the stage where you are best off thinking of them as an extension of your laptop or desktop computer, not the whole shebang. Use it for the tasks it is suited for, and be creative with how you apply it to those tasks which are a bit beyond a tablet's skillset at the moment.
Remember, we went through a decade of clunky, useless TabletPCs before we suddenly had a burst of innovation (thanks Apple) to get to this point in mobile computing. We are still at the early stages...just think where we will be in a couple years. THAT is when tablets will really shine, and at the moment you are ahead of the curve, devising business use cases for tablets out of sheer necessity. That is not a bad place to be.
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I have found the Xoom to be a great substitute for a laptop out in the field. I just email the files to my work pc, or use my Passport HDD or thumb drive to save...I use dropbox for some non-secure files. Cloud print works fine if you run Chrome on your pc. My work network is locked down tight but I use Splashtop HD to sync with and remotely access my home pc, so I can use full MS Word, Excel, PP etc. I use my Moto BT keyboard and an MS BT mouse if I need do do intensive writing/editing, otherwise Tablet Keyboard Pro or FlexT9 work great. I have the WiFi only Xoom but use my Clear 4G mifi hotspot for connectivity most places I need to be.
This can work. Rooting helps--gives you a few more tools. The battery life is great, especially if you set your screen to minimum necessary brightness and set a battery-saving screen-off profile in SetCPU.

Ok, I will admit that Xoom(as with many android devices) has some bugs to work out, but Android 3.2 has done a lot of fixes that you are talking about....And as for stuff like file managers it matters what one u use.

Some good responses here, I have been on a couple of business trips and left the laptop at home, taking just the Xoom. Sync with and use of Exchange email is brilliant (as it should be). What I had hoped to be able to do is modify spreadsheets while walking round sites, I have some great Excel sheets with drop downs and the like but that is not going to be happening any time soon.
I have found Memento, a great database app that will be my work around for this, but I shouldn't be working around...
I included the iPad in the "tablet computing is sucky" title.
My issue with Bluetooth, a technology that has been with us for years, is that it insists on asking me to OK every file - if I take 100 photos on a site survey, I want them to come over to my laptop with one approval, not 100. It can take a hour, that's fine, just stop asking me if it's OK...This has been a problem for as long as I have been using a smartphone (except my Nokia N73, that had great Bluetooth.)
My frustration remains that I have been able to see the potential of mobile computing and now we have powerful enough devices to deliver it, but the software just isn't there - as usual its the back room hobbyists providing the real world solutions, the paid for software falls very short of the mark.
You talk of 3.2, I have a work device so rooting is not possible and Motorola don't seem in any rush to update me. Any ideas?

66mustang said:
Some good responses here, I have been on a couple of business trips and left the laptop at home, taking just the Xoom. Sync with and use of Exchange email is brilliant (as it should be). What I had hoped to be able to do is modify spreadsheets while walking round sites, I have some great Excel sheets with drop downs and the like but that is not going to be happening any time soon.
I have found Memento, a great database app that will be my work around for this, but I shouldn't be working around...
I included the iPad in the "tablet computing is sucky" title.
My issue with Bluetooth, a technology that has been with us for years, is that it insists on asking me to OK every file - if I take 100 photos on a site survey, I want them to come over to my laptop with one approval, not 100. It can take a hour, that's fine, just stop asking me if it's OK...This has been a problem for as long as I have been using a smartphone (except my Nokia N73, that had great Bluetooth.)
My frustration remains that I have been able to see the potential of mobile computing and now we have powerful enough devices to deliver it, but the software just isn't there - as usual its the back room hobbyists providing the real world solutions, the paid for software falls very short of the mark.
You talk of 3.2, I have a work device so rooting is not possible and Motorola don't seem in any rush to update me. Any ideas?
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If you're taking pictures with your xoom, have it connected to a network (via a wifi network or phone tethering) you can use the auto upload feature that google+ has. That way you can access those pictures on your laptop as well by going to your google+ account.

I love my Xoom, even if my love for Motorola is waning, but I do have to agree to a point.
When I bought the thing, I had dreams of an all-in-one device... something that I could use as a laptop replacement but that I could also use to make phone calls.
Well, I can make phone calls using GrooveIP, but I would be lying if I said I was satisfied with this solution. GrooveIP works fine but generally kicks me out of Google Talk, which is pretty annoying given that I communicate more through chat than phone calls, so keeping it resident makes chat iffy. And speaking of GrooveIP, what's going on with the official Google Voice app for Honeycomb? I never imagined it would take Google so long to get it released.
The result? I finally decided to give up the dream and buy a new phone.
In a lot of ways, the Xoom has replaced my laptop for web surfing, but it doesn't make for a great word processor. I've purchased a few of the word processing apps available for Android, and they really aren't that great and lack key features such as auto-save. I still think that Google's official Google Docs app is the best of all available word processor apps, but even it is really mediocre on the Xoom. I think I gave it three stars in the market, and that might be one star too generous. I dislike Apple greatly, but iWork on the iPad is superior to anything available for Honeycomb. A native Google Docs Honeycomb app that doesn't rely on WebKit would be absolutely killer.
I still use my Xoom for most of my word processing, but it is a less than perfect solution. I love the size, and the tablet+bluetooth keyboard are still much more lightweight than my laptop, which makes them a more ideal travel companion. In fact, these days, the Xoom has replaced my laptop for about 85% of all my tasks, but it's still not a true laptop replacement.
I think it was unrealistic of me to expect my Xoom to be anything other than a tablet.

The first mistake was expecting it to replace your laptop + be productive as a business tool from the day you purchased it. Some things you mentioned the iPad 2 can't even do so it is what it is man.....
BUT if you use your xoom for play and your laptop for work then you won't have to worry about being stuck on your laptop charger all day long.

66mustang said:
- I can stand the Xoom up in the folio case, but I can't charge it, because the charger connector is on the bottom. A poor attempt to get me to fork out more money for the charging dock I assume.
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Easy solution: turn the Xoom upside down. There is no dedicated button, dedicated top or bottom for most applications. In that case power connection is in the top, easy to charge, easy to work on the tablel. Xoom works well for me as a laptop replacement.

I won't get into a long explanation as to why uninformed people should not be posting such a thread. Here is what I will say:
True... tablets cannot fully replace a laptop or PC just yet in terms of raw power, RAM, graphics, gaming, or features. Windows has been an OS for computers for a loooong time now. Honeycomb for tablets has not been around for that long. There is a HUGE difference between a tablet, and a desktop/laptop. I'll make this very clear for you so that it's easy to understand:
[Words of wisdom]
A desktop is a powerful computer that is meant to stay in one place at all times, a laptop is less powerful desktop computer that is portable, meanwhile a tablet is essentially an even more portable laptop with less power. It's not supposed to fully replace a computer in the first place, but rather work right along side it instead. Thus, one should not say tablet computing is "sucky". Apples and bananas as they say... cannot be compared. Don't even attempt to do such a thing.
[/End Words of wisdom]
Tablets are catching up fast in terms of overall specs to match computers, it's very impressive. They are currently working on beast quad core tablets. That's a lot of power for a small lightweight device.

Re: Charging - The Xoom uses a 7.4V/24.1Whr battery, so can't use USB charging which is only 5V. The iPad2 has a 3.8V/25Whr battery, so it can. (All current HC tabs AFAIK use 7.4V batt.)
The iPad2's USB wall-wart is 5V/2A, and users report it takes 3-4 hrs for a full charge. Based on this, charging from a PC's 5V/0.5A USB port would take a long time (charge time isn't linear to current level, but we're simplifying). So practically, you'd still have to lug along an AC charger for the iPad, although PC charging exists as an emergency measure.
Re: Charge adapter - Moto Mobo is a phone vendor. The Xoom is its first tablet, and it's likely that some components were common-sourced from existing phone parts. The smallish charge adapter plug is likely one. Ergonomic issues should be ironed out for the Xoom2, which undoubtedly will be thinner and lighter.
Re: Tablet as productivity device - It'd be interesting to see how much app support ICS gets, as HC didn't get much love from devs, or consumers for that matter. The major thrusts for ICS are phone+tablet convergence and cloud computing, at least as inferred from Google I/O '11. Productivity wasn't mentioned. It'd be a step up for Gbread phones, but I don't see a big improvement for current HC users.
On the flip side, if ICS is indeed incremental, then it should be here relatively soon after 3.2. My SWAG says Oct, which would be enough time for holiday shopping. If true, vendors would likely hold their 2nd-gen tablet offerings until that time. Else, we'll see the second wave starting in Sept. Moto's Xoom2 will serve as a bellwether.
Speaking of the Xoom2, my money is on it having the TI OMAP 4460, with the 7" probably using the 4430. Both are a big step up from the Tegra 2 wrt multimedia support, and the 4460's 1.5GHz speed will make for easy marketing pitch ("it's 50% faster!"). Pricing will likely be the same as current, ie USD$500 for 32GB wifi base model, and probably $400 for the 7".

I bought a really expensive power drill but it's terrible at hammering nails and useless for painting my walls.
I'm mad and posting about it.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

hi_its_ryan said:
I bought a really expensive power drill but it's terrible at hammering nails and useless for painting my walls.
I'm mad and posting about it.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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lol, did u try applying the paint to the drill before using it on ur wall

hi_its_ryan said:
I bought a really expensive power drill but it's terrible at hammering nails and useless for painting my walls.
I'm mad and posting about it.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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+1 +1 +1 +1 +1
I think a tablet pc would be great OP?

my fav part of the gripe is about not using the worlds most dominant microsoft software... Of course they are not going to use it... Microsoft competes with android... Its the same as crying that your iphone cant run flash or windows programs...
I know it sucks but a tab is not a direct replacement for a laptop just yet... Theres a lot of ways to get around some of your gripes.. Like dropbox app for posting and syncing all your files to all your devices.. Docs to go.. It aint perfect but it helps... Etc...

My only gripe where I agree with the OP is the charger and not being able to charge when in the folio case...but when you consider that the battery lasts at least 24 hours with normal usage it's really not s big deal. I can get a good 5 work days when I use it to stream Pandora or Slacker over WiFi without needing to recharge.

Remote control your PC from your tablet. Then you have the best of both worlds.

brandogg said:
My only gripe where I agree with the OP is the charger and not being able to charge when in the folio case...but when you consider that the battery lasts at least 24 hours with normal usage it's really not s big deal. I can get a good 5 work days when I use it to stream Pandora or Slacker over WiFi without needing to recharge.
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Umm... someone already mentioned it, but... there is NOT a "correct" way to hold the Xoom, or any Honeycomb tablet for that matter. The soft keys are located on the screen itself, and will follow the screen when rotated, meaning you can hold it any way you want. Just unlock the screen rotation option, and then rotate the Xoom to position the charging port to the way that fits your needs. That is what sets Honeycomb apart from the rest. If the OP has this "complaint" he should think again before opening his mouth. It's called rotation... it's a feature. The Honeycomb developers want you to hold and position your tablet however you wish, not force you to hold it one way. Look it up, or better yet... use it.

its interesting to see the posts we have here...
personally i think a tablet is pretty close to becoming a laptop replacement... for some...
now... my laptop at the moment will probably crush many many desktops out there by a long shot (i definitely moved from desktops 5 years ago) but in saying that my battery life is HORRIBLE... i cant even go through 1 class and my charger is the size of a house brick lol but personally i love how i could whizz through a thousand, tabs, programs, music whatever with not one instance of lag and it dual boots like a boss and the 18 inch screen is amazing..
my xoom i bought it to hopefully be able to replace the aspect of taking my laptop to uni as we have alot of classes with just a powerpoint and we can type our own stuff from there (i just received my hk cheapo folio keyboard case today; as i dont see paying $50+ for one with a wire i would have preferred a bluetooth with trackpad or something) and i think im going to try and leave my laptop at home next time.. i agree the word compatible apps are sometimes uses, i cant find one where i can edit the notes section of a powerpoint but what i would really love is too have 2 programs open side by side on the one screen as this would be even easier to multitask but i will be finished uni before these will be met and then simply put my needs now/future are minimal in the 'business' area.. but this will NEVER replace a laptop for me im on it everyday for 6+ hours easy and the necessity for ease of access, large screen, etc for me negate the tablet switch for sometime if at all
for those who require specified proprietary programs your needs may never be met and if so they may only be met in the apple arena for sometime to come.. apple is the in thing at the moment and for the average joe as we all know cant understand alot of techno-babble (this may be a good argument for proprietary stuff to come out on the more tech android, but in business there are alot of people with their head in the sand)..
as for the OP i say this...
1. really consider rooting/flashing a custom rom you can always revert back to stock for warranty (i purchased mine overseas so i have NO warranty, im a poor uni student and saved for mine and honestly it was cheaper than my phone but yeh)
2. get an OTG cable (i got mine for $3 from hk) and use your flash drive for everything you want from the tablet/computer transfers (get a 32gb if you really need a large one).. that will remove alot of file transfer issues with bluetooth, etc and if you need to have constant backups then copy the file to the sdcard of the xoom to be super safe
3. have a better look in the area of printing.. i can wirelessly print from my android devices and they come out great (not good for photos) but documents come out pretty clear
4. burn the folio case, dance around it and move on try something else (if so inclined lol)...
5. the battery life is awesome.. absolutely awesome... i can go 2 full days without charge and using it all day on the train, music, wifi, internet.. bla bla
sorry for being long

My Review of the A500

I have read several articles about "junk", bad video, and what ever, complaints about the Iconia, and decided to add my 2 cents worth.
I have been personal computing since the early 1980s. I was on the internet before the world wide web, and started using the www when command prompts were the norm and things like gopher were being used. I've used every version of msdos and all versions of windows except 8.
I have two desktops, one portable, one netbook, and the Iconia. Which computer do I use the most. The simple answer is the A500. The more complex is the one that best suits the job I have to do. If I'm doing photo or video work it's my best desktop, at the moment it's my portable. If I were not typing it would probably be the a500. The real point is I don't use my tablet for something it was not designed to do.
The other side of my computing experience has been the small computer. I don't remember which came first, the Springboard,Palm variant, or the Microsoft with and early version of a portable widows. It seems like a long time ago but I bought the Springboard in 2001 and It cost more than the A500. The Microsoft machine had a wider screen which was great, but the screen was almost unreadable. Both used a stylus and phone modems. I always wanted a good book reader. Neither worked that well. The small amount of material on screen means a lot of page turning and page turning delays just disrupts the flow of reading. I also had a sony reader that used disks. In good light reading was okay, but disk access and page turning was terrible, and sony did not support it for very long. Microsoft didn't support their computer either.
Next came the Itouch. Back light and color WOW. It also had WIFI and a web browser. I used it a lot, and my wife loves to play angry birds on it. This was my first real experience with ITunes and Apple. I did not like the way Apple ties you down to their way and I do not own a piece of software that gets updated as much a Itunes does. In fact I just got another update notice while typing in this post. I would not have it on the computer if it were not fore the Itouch. Reading with the Itouch was a far better experience than anything else I've used but page turning so often still is a hassle.
Then came BN and the nook with color touch area at the bottom. Now reading was an all together new experience and the size is great. But, I happened to be in my local BN and someone had not bought their pre order Nook Color. I jumped and have had it over a year now. Biggest problem, BN throttled the NC down worse than apple. I rooted as soon as It came available. A rooted nook color has been the very best at what I wanted in a small computer. I soon learned that the color screen did not bother my reading, and I could go browsing when ever I wanted, plus Overdrive a library loan application worked as well. I could download both audio and epub books from my local library. No need for BN at all.
Audio playback is not great and sound volume sucks. I had to use earphones to listen to anything. So what is my book reader, book playback, browser now? My Acer Iconia.
My most used computer for almost everything I like to do on the computer is my Iconia. And it does these thing very well. A much bigger screen for browsing. The sound is good and volume is high enough not to have to use earphones all the time. Screen data is almost too much for my normal reading, but with apps like Cool Reader I can set up the reader just like I want it, down to the ability to set touch zones just the way I want them. The Acer book reader Lumaread is better than most.
The Acer is somewhat tied down but not bad enough for me to bother rooting, and I have found plenty of good apps from market for my needs. I don't know if I'll root or not.
I don't know, at this point, if I were standing at Best Buy with $700 that this is the tablet I would buy. I got a deal from my daughter when she found out I was looking for a tablet and she was not happy with the tablet, because she social networks a lot and likes to have a keyboard. The point is that the acer is half this not existent $700. I would do just about anything not to buy an Apple and the remaining options are not that many.
My first problem was the wt. I lay in bed and read and like to move around and keep reading. Kind of paperback mode. The slippery skin and shape is not that great for my way reading. It is heavier than some of the tablets but only 1/3 lb. more than the Ipad2, and less than others.
It has a good selection of ports. The full usb lets me use usb mem and I have a 80 gig batt. operated hard drive that works just fine. Fat 32 format. USB keyboard and mouse works. The mouse driver is new to honeycomb.
I had a little trouble getting a HDMI cord but got one for 12 bucks from fry's and the picture looks great on my tv. I don't understand the video complaints. Netflix works great and looks just fine to me. As I understand it, this was an early complaint in reviews and was fixed with honycomb updates. On early review said angry birds was jumpy, but I don't see it and I think that is also due to honeycomb updates. Outside in the sun the display is not very good but is fine in my car with tinted windows. I don't know why there is not more manual control for the screen. Contrast control would be great. I don't know if this is a problem with acer or android.
Battery times are not that big of issue for me. I always travel with inverter and can charge it up at anytime. Even though the volatage is 12v the plug seem to be smaller than standard plugs and I have not found one that works.
I rotate browsers but the standard browser works fine and sometimes works when others don't seem to want to display a page correctly.
I believe it has all the normal sensors and gps seems to work fine.
I have not had any wifi problems. I have not traveled that much with it yet so I don't know about starbucks and Mac, but I expect those will work fine.
I have three acer computers. Portable, netbook, and know tablet and they all work fine.
So the Iconia has met my needs in the middle. I think I prefer the NC size for book reading. And I sort of regret trading it to my daughter, but all in all I'm very happy with A500 and I don't regret getting it. What about that $700, well I just might walk out with Acer anyway and get a several new tools in the process.
Woody

Damn Dude, that's more like a buck and a half's worth, instead of 2 cents.

Walls of text are never pleasant to read, next time break it up into smaller, coherent parts.

Loved your review. Love my A500.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium

WereCatf said:
Walls of text are never pleasant to read, next time break it up into smaller, coherent parts.
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Click to collapse
Don't read it then.
Sent from my A100 using xda premium

qhinton said:
Don't read it then.
Sent from my A100 using xda premium
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Doubt they did, most people don't complain about length and read it. He did have paragraphs, that breaks it up. but it was old school

qhinton said:
Don't read it then.
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I skimmed through it. But my comment was merely provided as constructive criticism to him should he decide to write as much again sometime in the future, not as an insult: it'll be more pleasant for people to read if it's broken up in smaller, coherent pieces and the author doesn't just jump from one thing to the next like he had ADHD.
Being able to accept constructive criticism and improve yourself and/or your behaviour based on that is a terribly useful and positive trait and can even make or break you getting that long-wished-for promotion or job offer.
That said I am not commenting on the content of the OP's post, only the presentation.

Thanks for the in depth thoughts. I don't agree with some of it but we all have our personal requirements as to what works best for us.
It sounds like you are in the same boat as many of us what with a multitude of decent but not fantastic products out there but you have to remember we are still at the dawn/infancy of these devices and they WILL get better. No one tablet is best, rather they are all a set of choices and compromises which is good for the consumer since that leaves a lot of choices out there. That's good.
You have the disadvantage of not shopping for it, rather you got it from your daughter so you didn't even get to choose the compromises you'd be OK accepting. You might have chosen something different but give the A500 a fighting chance (sounds like you are doing that) and I think you'll be fine with it.
I had no problems with your formatting by the way. Type however you feel is best and I'll cope! TYPE IN ALL CAPS IF YOU WANT. I can handle it.
Sounds like your computer experience is similar to mine though I started dabbling in the late 70's and early 80s and on through today. Way to stick with it. Technology is cool.
One suggestion - if you have issues with the A500 slipping out of your hands, consider getting the Zagg full body protection. It's a "skin" you apply to all sides of the tablet and is somewhat rubbery. It makes it a LOT less slippery.
Good luck and thanks for the review.

And if you plan to hangout at McDonalds to use the free wifi, I would advise an app called "KillWifi". It's a nice diagnostic tool allowing to teach a lesson to those pesky Apple "Homesteaders" sucking up all the bandwidth.

Moscow Desire said:
And if you plan to hangout at McDonalds to use the free wifi, I would advise an app called "KillWifi". It's a nice diagnostic tool allowing to teach a lesson to those pesky Apple "Homesteaders" sucking up all the bandwidth.
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You have no right to decide who gets to use the bandwidth and who doesn't. Only selfish douchebags would do what you're advising. Not to mention that it's incredibly childish to annoy other people only because of what device they happen to use, that's like denying you Internet connection because you're wearing a wrong shirt.

Thanks very much for you review. I hope that I will also happy with my coming a500 . Nothing is perfect, but we can learn to be happy with it. Regretting is not good for your health .
Next time, I think you should consider double linefeed (enter) to make things easier to read.

WereCatf said:
You have no right to decide who gets to use the bandwidth and who doesn't. Only selfish douchebags would do what you're advising. Not to mention that it's incredibly childish to annoy other people only because of what device they happen to use, that's like denying you Internet connection because you're wearing a wrong shirt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, but it's like wearing a $250 ed hardy tshirt with the dragons and ****, and I would certainly approve of anything to annoy them

Thanks for the suggestions on formatting. I didn't mean for the post to be that long, just got away from me. "typical"
Sent from my A500 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

Homemade Tablet? An Idea.

Ok, so here's my dilemma. I want a convertible tablet pc. Problem is though, I think all of the ones on the market are poop. They either run android (I don't see the point still) and iOS, or are clunky and rediculously expensive. But I had a extremley bright idea. Buy whatever laptop I like, slap a touchscreen on that *****, and be happy. Keep in mind that as a poor college student with no job, I will probably never be able to afford this
1. Take apart laptop completley, Rip out the green bullcrap.
2. Mod case to be suitable as a convertible...or just look cool.
3. Rverse USB port to face inside
4. Close USB off from the outside
5. Get a USB Touchscreen conversion kit, which im sure come in many different flavors (Capacitive, Multitouch, Resistive), or better yet use a connector designed for computer internals, making #3 and #4 useless.
6. Add 3rd party accelerometer for Poitrait/Landscape orientation
7. Find a suitable hinge (or make one) and replace it
8. Boot laptop, install drivers for touchscreen and accelerometer
9. Pat myself on the back for custom making a tablet PC?
In my opinion the hardest part would be modding the case to be suitable as a convertible tablet, which can't be too hard. I have access to MIG/TIG welders, sheet metal cutters, grinders, ect. and I know people who know how to use them, so working with metal shouldn't be too dificult. In fact, I probably could just build a case myself from scratch. I also have alot of experience with plastic, so that's not a problem although I'd prefer to use metal for structural parts.
Touchscreen conversion kits seem to be all over the internet with a quick google search, and it shouldn't be too hard to find high quality capacitive touchscreen panels.
Walcom Bamboo Stylus because I'm a G
Accelerometers that work with windows I don't know about, but it cant be too hard Amirite? You can find ANYTHING for sale on the internet.
If I do do this however it will probably be in the summer (when I have a job). The only probelm I might have is the internals, seeing as I've never handled computer internals before. My brother did build his computer though, and I have a friend who also builds computers. It dosen't seem too hard compared to the other stuff like modding the case. While the laptop is dissasembled I'd probably put the parts in ziplock bags to keep them away from dirt and debris while I'm not using them. As long as I'm careful I don't thinkim going to mess anything up.
Good idea or no?

Good idea. Just keep in mind that the whole thing would be much heavier than a regular tablet, so holding it in hand would be difficult.
I have seen an EEE PC modded with a touchscreen, but the keyboard part was still there.

Just get a transformer lol...
What is wrong with Android? What is it you need to do that it won't?
My other idea would be to tell you most android devices are capable of running linux too?
Sounds like alot of work..and there are suitable models on the market, but if you wanna do it?
By the time you get around to it I wonder where technology will be...
PS ziplock bags? NO! Get some static bags..ziplocs are crazy static-charged! Honestly though, sounds like you are a good deal away from being able to deconstruct and reconstruct a laptop..the integrated circuits are ridiculously small and fragile..
PPS The hardest part might be actually getting the accelerometer sensors to function..which is where android comes in..you have to actually write some code into your operating system that will recognize and react accordingly withing the right parameters in your code..devs on this sight have problems with accelerometers that otherwise worked on a stock rom on OEM machines, god knows what it would take to get one working on a machine that never intended to have one by design?
That is all

What's old is new again
It's funny we did something similar a few years ago to build PC's into cars and trucks. For that application and at that time it made sense. Today we essentially just make custom docks for COTS tablets so that they integrate with the car.
If you're opposed to Android and other mobile OS's my suggestion is to start looking around craigslist for convertible tablet/laptops like those from HP and Dell or look for a cheap HP slate. I've seen gently used Slates going for around $200-300 and they run windows 8 reasonably well. I've seen convertibles close to that price as well.
Unless you are just dead set on a fabrication project i'd strongly suggest taking advantage of off the shelf hardware and mass production pricing and spend your extra time and money learning how to get the most of of those components.
If you do go ahead with this then weight and cost will be your biggest issues. I think a better twist on this would be to figure out how to make a transformer type of dock for other popular tablets. If you can make them well and make them cheap then sell a few and buy what you really want.

The reason I don't like android is because It's not a desktop OS. I'll be building this tablet-y thing for graphics/image editing, word processing and a little bit of gaming in between and I'm not 100% sure about android graphics programs. I like to keep it simple and use MS Paint, then GIMP if i need a more powerful program. I'm also a windows fanboy and it's what I've been using ever since I was 2... I also like to build things.
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
I didn't know Ziplock bags are staticy by nature. Thanks for the tip.
As far as the accelerometer, I don't know much about them but if it's super difficult I'm probably not going to bother with it. I'll maybe install a switch?

It's hard to beat windows for functionality but you might check out paint.net as a free replacement for paint.
Over all though I get the idea that you're a little in over your head on this.
Sent from my HTC Flyer using XDA App

LexusFman said:
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen the Eee Pad Slider?
Also, Adobe photoshop for android = $10
https://market.android.com/details?id=air.com.adobe.pstouch&hl=en

LexusFman said:
The reason I don't like android is because It's not a desktop OS. I'll be building this tablet-y thing for graphics/image editing, word processing and a little bit of gaming in between and I'm not 100% sure about android graphics programs. I like to keep it simple and use MS Paint, then GIMP if i need a more powerful program. I'm also a windows fanboy and it's what I've been using ever since I was 2... I also like to build things.
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
I didn't know Ziplock bags are staticy by nature. Thanks for the tip.
As far as the accelerometer, I don't know much about them but if it's super difficult I'm probably not going to bother with it. I'll maybe install a switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, I've got photoshop, an office suite, and tons of games, I'd never have to touch a PC again..I am a graphic designer by trade! I can even watch hulu (something not supposed to be capable of on android platforms), I've got a nice stylus and a full qwerty keyboard and mouse- I'm working on the OG transformer not the Prime, as far as I can tell the Prime was pushed too quickly and has issues with all of it's radios due to the metal shell..the TF101 does not have these issues, and the TF700 (basically the prime with the GPS and radios fixed and better resoultion) is available if you don't want to go for the OG transformer.
Seriously sounds like you're trying feverishly to open a can of worms to get a windows tablet when in reality there is no need and windows is given a run for it's money with the new ICS android on the way. Trying to unlock a windows phone after unlocking a whole bunch of Android devices would quickly turn you off of Microsoft as an OS IMO, that's what made me an Android fanboy (I was a windows guy previously, now I'm leaning more and more towards linux/android for their open source code user-friendly programability). But, if you are determined to do something the hard way = the expensive and labor/time-consuming way, no one is going to stop you
Just remember- in the world of technology things are done: Right, Cheap, and/or Fast. BUT, you can only choose two..

I've done this already with a eeePC 700.
1. The resistive touchscreen. You'll need a stylus for that.
2. Typing with a stylus is horrible.
3. It was heavy. Even when it was only 7inch screen. The battery made it heavy. (but I had 9hours of battery life)
4. You couldn't navigate the boot menu (without an external keyboard)
5. Resistive touchscreen is crap for drawing, because you still want to support your hand on the screen while drawing, which you couldn't do.
6. Moving Items around sucked (no drag and drop)
and many more.
I used it in my bed, for browsing. was good enough, until the touchscreen cable snapped. (I didn't have an external keyboard, so I had to open the tablet, connect the keyboard, and navigate the boot menu when I had to)
Hope this helped. Though it was fun to build it and use it, it's not what you would call an 'every day' tablet

romitkin said:
Good idea. Just keep in mind that the whole thing would be much heavier than a regular tablet, so holding it in hand would be difficult.
I have seen an EEE PC modded with a touchscreen, but the keyboard part was still there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it would be much heavier, in fact I think the idea is perfect for modification of a netbook. It would probably be cheapest. since so much case modding is required and so many enclosure fabrication resources are handy, to put together a frankenstein out of 2 or 3 broken netbooks. Find someone who smashed the screen of one netbook, another one who fried the board of theirs, find a total-loss broken tablet PC (like dropped in lake michigan level of total loss so it will cost pennies) and get the ribbon cable and swivel element from there. I think if this idea is applied to a netbook it would be excellent in size and weight as well as functionality. And with the x86 version of android's progress, it could even be running android like a tablet in screen out mode, and change to webtop mode when its swiveled. Put a netbook mobile broadband card in there, many netbooks have open card expansions under the screw-out panels underneath, if not you would have to choose between wifi or taking the wifi expansion out in favor of a mobile broadband card, and certainly make sure that the card is supported by your wireless provider if you choose to go the mobile broadband route. With verizon or sprint you will most likely have to acquire a mobile broadband card out of a netbook that was originally sold by the company, but be sure to check and make sure the MEID is clean before paying anything for one, if the seller defaulted on a contract they used to acquire it, you might as well flash the thing to cricket or metroPCS and use them as your mobile broadband carrier. With either wifi or mobile broadband, as well as bluetooth, don't forget the antenna! yeah that thing you have to unhook from the other side of the card to take it out, you need that. (oh yeah, bluetooths are included as expansion cards sometimes too, if so you could always remove this to make room for the mobile broadband if you don't use bluetooth. I sure don't and probably wont until they drop the rediculous prices of non-audio bluetooth interfaces to acceptable and competative levels.)
That project actually sounds pretty freakin cool, the type of thing I'd do if I wasn't already swamped with projects. Definetly keep us posted if you decide to go through with it, as I pointed out, if you build it from netbook parts it should be well within your budget, netbooks run much cheaper then notebooks already, but a netbook is comperable in power to most current android devices and thus is suitable to handle most things you'd use a tablet PC for, just not high powered stuff like compiling code or rendering animation or playing 3d online games.
Edit: I'd like to add and point out that as a regular user of an acer netbook running ubuntu, it is wise to refrain from excessive multitasking, the atom had to sacrifice a bit of things we've become accustomed to in notebooks to meet the low power consumption and operating temperature requirements, and a lot of those things are things that mostly benefit multitasking. You will not be happy if you try and run a jillion programs at the same time.
That being said ubuntu's new primary UI, I forget what it's called evolve or something like that, it is an excellent UI for netbooks, perfectly space-optimized, especially in the vertical range which gets filled quick on lil netbook screens. I'm not sold on it and prefer to go with gnome or xfce on desktops and normal-sized notebooks, but it is top-notch on a netbook. I'd also recommend not messing with the accelerometer at first and including it later as it may be a pain to implement correctly in comparison to the limited amount of functionality it brings to the table. I'd rather have something that works personally that I can make additions to then pull my hair out trying to throw everything in the first time right.
---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------
Will_nonya said:
It's hard to beat windows for functionality but you might check out paint.net as a free replacement for paint.
Over all though I get the idea that you're a little in over your head on this.
Sent from my HTC Flyer using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to LMAO @ this comment. If users would ever actually push developers to release for the linux platform, especially hardware manufacturers (which is ridiculous since all they would have to do is release their code open source, or even just parts of their code and the community would do the rest. Doesn't matter much tho, it's mostly crappy chinese hardware that isn't supported by linux, and their HQs more then likely don't speak enough english to be able to request anything, beleive me I've tried to contact MSI before.... most hardware worth running is fully supported tho)
But point is, I feel like it is extremely cumbersome whenever I'm forced to use windows, apart from trying to use unsupported hardware or cross-platform software (although wine and mono have made GIGANTIC leaps in usability). I pretty much never have to deal with drivers, updates to all software happens automatically, it's become so self-maintaining that I'm ashamed of how lazy of a linux user I've become. When I actually do have to do something even remotely advanced I have to think for a minute about it. Usually the only thing that really requires a lot of getting under the hood that I ever have to do is when I set up my audio-production setups which is even a lot easier now that they have dedicated repositories for them, and when set up correctly the real time preemptable kernel will run circles around any windows or OSX setup latency-wise. I was pulling lower latency with computers recording with ardour, and sequencing/synthesizing/sampling with seq24 amSynth, and qsampler, 5 years older then any PC I would test it against running windows with Reason and Protools. the Jack audio drivers that allowed software to plug audio inbetween applications directly across the PCM was just icing on the cake.
Windows is good software, but linux has certainly surpassed it by leaps and bounds. Windows still rules for gaming because of directX and industry unwillingness to port to linux, but the period of time right after Microsoft declared it was removing directX support from XP on further releases saw linux catch up with windows for a little while as they rushed wine to support the newest directX making it actually possible to actually run new releases under windowsXP even. Curses microsoft, foiled again! And off topic, but furthermore, I can't believe people still pay so much money for that god damn talking paper clip, openoffice.org ftw!
As I said windows isn't bad software, I said before in these forums actually that if windows ran a microsoft controlled repository to distribute all software for windows through, like linux, it would have similarly non-existant problems with viruses. Having people go around the wild-west of the internet downloading and installing programs from there without even thinking about it is just asking for the malware and adware problems windows experiences. Windows is good software, linux is just much better software.

Too complicated...
On a second thought how about moding a cheap Tablet with better parts. Is it even possible like are the parts such as a processor, camera, or the radio chip available for tablets and phones.

Why dnt you get a transformer?

In my opinion, it would just be better to settle for an table, prices are gonna drop really soon. The market for Eee PC's alike has diminished since the release of the ipad.

This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.

A lot of things to doo, better start with a simple tablet and try to upgrade it if possible... dont know if its possible btw.

I did something almost like this.
Took apart a dirt cheap acer aspire one with a small 8 GB SDD.
Small 280 Atom 1.6GHz cpu and cheap intel GMA gpu.
Inverted the screen
Added a extra 512MB ram and inserted a 16GB SD card.
My battery however did not stand up to the task so i ordered a 9 cell pack.
It ran quite stable with 6 days standby or 12hours of heavy usage.
The lack of a accelerometer however made it a pain for quite a few games.
But i did have a vague plan to get value's from it into the android OS using a AVR and a few other cheap parts.
Many manufacturers still produce cheap atom notebooks like these.
But hardware specs have gotten better and better, so you should be able to pick one up for cheap still.

http://www.axiotron.com
Soooo 2008...

I'm doing this with an old pentium 3 thinkbook. I know its not really that great of a computer but it at least redeems it as a usable device.

sounds interesting will looking forward for it....

Good Idea!

[Q] How Can These 2 Be Combined?

My Core Question:
WHY do no Android tablets have video INPUTS on them, so they could also be used as portable HD screens?
(or better yet as portable HD, multi-touch screens)
Basic Idea: I want an Android Tablet that can ALSO do what the GeChic on-lap 1002 can do (even if that didn't include touch). The on-lap 1002 is a highly portable 10" 10-point touchscreen that plays video from any HDMI source (or vga with included adapter). It is powered by USB plugged into either a usb-charger style wall adapter or directly into a PC. The best part is that if it is plugged into a PC, it not only draws power there but also sends touch commands to the PC through the USB at the same time. Great for portable gaming or a second screen BUT they are about $250 for the 10" and about $400 for the 15.6" and they have no OS, or stand-alone capabilities at all. I want a tablet that is always useful as a stand-alone, but when the situation calls for it, can also do the on-lap's job! (If on-lap still isn't clear to you then here is a video of it's big brother the 15.6" version).
I realize that adding a feature can increase the price and/or size of a tablet, but MOST of the parts that they both use overlap, so I don't think that the increase in either would be all that big. An HD 10-point capacitive touch screen has to be the biggest part and single cost in both (so making one screen do both functions only makes sense for size and cost) and the same USB components could be used, same body, bezel, buttons, etc. Admittedly, some components would probably have to be modified like the screen control board. That might cost a bit more/be a little bigger as a combo item, but still shouldn't be anywhere near double sized or double cost... so go ahead and add a little bit of cost or a few millimeters of thickness if that's what it takes! I would gladly pay an extra $50-100 (and probably willingly pay a fair bit more) for a tablet to add this feature and that certainly SEEMS attainable.
I have done literally days worth of Googling and have read MANY threads (some in this forum) with people asking IF there are any tablets with an HDMI input. At this point I am 99.999% convinced there are NONE (but I would be VERY HAPPY to be proven wrong). In order to be 100% sure and let my brain rest... I just have to have some idea WHY doesn't it exist? I am hoping that some of the hardware experts and creative-minded modders that frequent this forum can help me understand what I'm missing or better yet help make it happen. THANKS IN ADVANCE TO ALL!!!
Some Clarification:
1.) I just want to re-enforce that I am asking about INPUTs, not outputs. You wouldn't believe how much confusion there was about the difference in a few of the threads I read on some DSLR sites
2.) HDMI seems like the logical choice, so I may use it in examples, but my question is really about ANY video input regardless of port-type.
3.) I know that video ports only serve as EITHER a video input or output, not both from the same port (Some day a single port that did both would be nice, but for now) couldn't a tab easily have 2 ports, one in and one out or am i missing something simple?
4.) There is one answer I DO NOT BUY. Which is that 'there is not enough demand for anyone to bother adding an input to a tablet'. I have read several threads that have asked if it exists since 2011 for everything from DSLR photographers, gamers, car-PC builders, RaspberryPi fanatics, techs that want a portable workstation to connect to servers etc etc etc. Whole product lines or even companies (like GeChic) are based on portable screens, so I don't accept the premise that there is no demand. Besides, even if there WERE small demand, that would explain why they DON'T ALL have it, not why NONE have it. All I can conclude is that I am missing something and it must be a much bigger hardware challenge than I realize.

That'd be SWEET!
duckdodger24th said:
I want an Android Tablet that can ALSO do what the GeChic on-lap 1002 can do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well thanks... I want that Too... NOW! haha.
In fact, I might actually buy one of the "on-lap"s you talked about for traveling (thanks for culling me into them!). But it would be awesome if my Nexus could just do it! Or better yet, if they would put some droid guts and a battery in that 10inch on-lap (I have decided too late that I like 10" tabs way more than 7s)
Unfortunately, I don't have the chops to answer your question. In fact, I'm with you that it seems awesome and yet reasonable. But there are some brilliant modsters on here, so I hope you get some help because it's a great idea. Good Luck!

sizes itedqun
DigMyDroid said:
thanks for culling me into them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your Welcome... Assuming that was meant to say "clueing" you in
I am thinking about doing an in-dash car install of a table. But I would LOVE it if it doubled as a monitor that I could also use for a more elaborate windows7 car-PC for a possible later project. That is what made me first want it. I think I have some work-around ideas to fit those specific needs... but once I thought about it I couldn't help but think of how versatile it would be and a whole laundry list of potential uses!

duckdodger24th said:
Your Welcome... Assuming that was meant to say "clueing" you in
I am thinking about doing an in-dash car install of a table. But I would LOVE it if it doubled as a monitor that I could also use for a more elaborate windows7 car-PC...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA yes! that WAS meant to saying "clueing"... But... Ya know... typos happen... Unless, of course, you actually ARE planning to install a "table" into your car's dash, rather than a "tablet"!

DigMyDroid said:
HAHA yes! that WAS meant to saying "clueing"... But... Ya know... typos happen... Unless, of course, you actually ARE planning to install a "table" into your car's dash, rather than a "tablet"!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touché Sir!

Pixel C vs The World

I am in a state of utter indecision and hope this post can generate some food for thought.
I am in possession of my second Galaxy Note tablet--the 2014--and am very unhappy with multi'window and bezel buttons. Before I bought the 2014 I tried jumping off the Android ecosystem to Apple and was less than happy with it, so the 2014 was a bit of a knee jerk, thinking that I could work around the button problem--I can't. But even worse is how they made multi-window into a horrible "feature".
All that is to say that I'm not platform dependent, and that I am so done with Samsung--no matter how much I like the stylus. The stylus was a useful feature but felt awkward to hold so while I think all tablets should have a stylus, I know that it is easier to say than to do in a logical fashion.
Over the past couple years I've encountered a couple Surface users who use theirs in concert with work and speak very highly of their capability. I think one of those would be better than a laptop when I travel. But having tried an early model I don't think they hold-up all that well as tablets. Certainly they do the job okay but don't feel right to me. I don't think like some that the Pixel C is aimed at competing with the surface--perhaps more an attempt at moving the platform more in that direction. It doesn't at all compare well with the surface IMHO.
Another thing that I read is people complaining about keyboards on tablets. I've always wanted one to make answering emails easier. That on screen keyboard is still not as good as a keyboard to me--call it an old folk interface device (OFID) if you must. That said, I've never had one because Bluetooth keyboards always seemed so finicky and the extra charging cable seemed a bridge too far for me. So the Pixel C keyboard's charging method seems inventive and spot on, but I'm not sure I like the Bluetooth nor do I understand why (comparing the surface keyboard with it) some keys had to be dropped off and a trackpad wasn't possible--though those seem a smallish issue.
So I'm having trouble deciding whether to get away from Android tablets and move toward a Surface or go with a Pixel C or something else. I do little more than reading on my 2014--well that and sending all my pictures to it over Eyefi, and web browsing. So I see little real reason to spend Surface Pro 4 money, but the extra functionality would be useful. I've worked more with Google Drive and spreadsheets and docs and am happy to think I can do some office work that way if need be but sometimes you need absolute compatibility without fail so I'm going to be a bit skiddish there.
So I know that's a bit of a ramble, but it seems all that's been rolling around in my head I really want to like this tablet but I'd want more than 64GB of storage because of those pictures, I really would like it to be removable memory, and as weird as it seems this lovely tablet got me looking closer at the Surface and thinking a PRO 3 might be a better bet. Don't come at me swinging, just give me some food for thought.

I strongly agree to stay away from Samsung, so you're already in a good spot after that decision.
Regarding storage space, I'm with you on wanting more space/expandability, but the general trend is to store eveyrthing online these days. At least if you have 64 gb for base that should be reasonable for most core use. (Android and its apps eat up considerably less space than Windows does, so it's not a straight space comparison. But ceretainly there is still a space comparison.)
In either case, bluetooth keyboard will hopefully prove comfortable for you as connection should be strong and seamless.
It really comes down to what you want to do with your new device. Pixel C will give you more portability, more apps, everything your Samsung could do but do it much better, faster, and cooler. Surface will give you PC-ability, Microsoft Office and similar full-PC apps, stylus-digitizer, expansion and desktop-friendly.
Also, Surface is available now and Pixel C is available ?? "by 2015 holidays" ???

ferrydust said:
I strongly agree to stay away from Samsung, so you're already in a good spot after that decision.
Regarding storage space, I'm with you on wanting more space/expandability, but the general trend is to store eveyrthing online these days. At least if you have 64 gb for base that should be reasonable for most core use. (Android and its apps eat up considerably less space than Windows does, so it's not a straight space comparison. But ceretainly there is still a space comparison.)
In either case, bluetooth keyboard will hopefully prove comfortable for you as connection should be strong and seamless.
It really comes down to what you want to do with your new device. Pixel C will give you more portability, more apps, everything your Samsung could do but do it much better, faster, and cooler. Surface will give you PC-ability, Microsoft Office and similar full-PC apps, stylus-digitizer, expansion and desktop-friendly.
Also, Surface is available now and Pixel C is available ?? "by 2015 holidays" ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly Windows is part of the reason I shy away from surface, but it is a necessary evil sometimes. I could have a Surface 3 pro right now if I was all that enamored with it, that I don't is due in part to the fact that I don't have to make the decision now. I've been with Android a long time and don't have major complaints, but battery life and security are issues I care about. Both seem to be getting some attention so I've no real burning reason to move away just yet.
So if I can reliably distill the above ramble into a shorter statement it might be that I feel the tug of Surface because I travel a bit for work, and I want a new tablet. I'm just not totally sold on the Pixel C Because of doubts and dissatisfaction with the keyboard and lack of external memory.
That may seem weak sauce to those of you who've been in the Nexus realm for a bit and I'd certainly put lots of faith in your expectations vs experience thoughts, and that's part of why I'm here. Nexus seems like the only realistic Android choice for me as updates and security go hand-in-hand. The Pixel C being an outgrowth of Nexus would presumably follow in the same foot steps. I also like what I'm seeing from an industrial design standpoint.--a Nexus 6p will be in my hands in a couple weeks. As I've stated, memory is an issue more because it doesn't seem enough to hold the pictures from the EyeFi card. I'll have to see how much space I'm currently using to justify that thought though.

wclark57 said:
Certainly Windows is part of the reason I shy away from surface, but it is a necessary evil sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW, I'm pleasantly comfortable with Windows 10 on my laptop. I did not love windows 8 and had several measures in place to wrangle it into behaving like 7 for me. I've left windows 7 as is on my Workstation, but both my machines have very similar setups and I use Synergy between them and have been pleased with everything running swimmingly. Having a good touch screen makes a good bit of difference. The Windows store apps, though, are pretty bleh to me. That's not been an issue for me on Win 10; I use the regular desktop apps I've always used on regular windows, rather than the "touch-screen friendly" and "metro-style" apps.
I've been with Android a long time and don't have major complaints, but battery life and security are issues I care about. Both seem to be getting some attention so I've no real burning reason to move away just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Battery life should be comparable if not better from Android, particularly in this case.
So if I can reliably distill the above ramble into a shorter statement it might be that I feel the tug of Surface because I travel a bit for work, and I want a new tablet. I'm just not totally sold on the Pixel C Because of doubts and dissatisfaction with the keyboard and lack of external memory.
Click to expand...
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If you use MS Office for work or similar desktop-dependent software, and don't want to lug around two machines (laptop for work plus tablet) then Surface is definitely your way to go. Otherwise, there's decent-to-great productivity applications on Android now (if you need MS Office or full Adobe Illustrator or similar, then nothing short of PC will cut it) and you may find the Pixel more portable, hardware and software-wise.[/quote]
Nexus seems like the only realistic Android choice for me as updates and security go hand-in-hand.
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Yes, other options are slim anyway, especially having ruled out Samsung. The other ones I'd look at in your case are Sony's Xperia tablet line or one of Lenovo's various tablets and tablet-laptop hybrids.
memory is an issue more because it doesn't seem enough to hold the pictures from the EyeFi card.
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Yes, I really wish they'd offer more memory across the board. You may find yourself happy and comfortable though with a combination built-in-memory+cloud-drive solution.
Since you're not in a rush, keep exploring the options and asking the questions. until you're comfortable or decidedly smitten with one machine.

ferrydust said:
FWIW, I'm pleasantly comfortable with Windows 10 on my laptop. I did not love windows 8 and had several measures in place to wrangle it into behaving like 7 for me. I've left windows 7 as is on my Workstation, but both my machines have very similar setups and I use Synergy between them and have been pleased with everything running swimmingly. Having a good touch screen makes a good bit of difference. The Windows store apps, though, are pretty bleh to me. That's not been an issue for me on Win 10; I use the regular desktop apps I've always used on regular windows, rather than the "touch-screen friendly" and "metro-style" apps. .
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While the ramble I've written above stands true, enough cannot be made of the security faults with non Nexus devices. My 2014 has not been updated since I got it and it has a bunch of bloatware I cannot remove and have not accepted the permissions for. Not to mention that the reason I tried Apple was largely what this version of Android attempts to fix. So this is the only Android tablet I am considering.
I've also recently bought a fine laptop and its running Linux--which is what I run at home. So while I can configure some synergy in, it isn't a given that the synergy will be all that. And yes I'm sure I could put Linux on the Surface, but that would take me away from my main use case for it.
It comes down to what I most value and I think the process of writing this all out has all but made my decision for me, but still, I would prefer a positive argument for this tablet and frankly I'm not sure I have one. That leads me to the thought that I have an actual use case for a Surface, but not an Android--well there is the photography, but I can setup the surface, or even the laptop (its just not as easy to lug around) to handle that.
The practical side of me says Surface, but every other fiber of my being says Pixel C. I'm trying to convince the practical me that its full of it.

wclark57 said:
it has a bunch of bloatware I cannot remove and have not accepted the permissions for.
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Cannot remove but you can disable them yes? Should be able to disable just about any app you like as long as it's not System... I'm not 100% sure if that's true for Samsung devices though (we've already covered that general topic...).
So this is the only Android tablet I am considering.
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Yes you and me both; I've ruled out the others this round. Most of them just don't come close to spec requirements.
I've also recently bought a fine laptop and its running Linux--which is what I run at home.
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Okay if you have this, then you may not need another laptop[hybrid] in the Surface, neh?
memory is an issue
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It does have that type-C usb port that can take external storage in a small lightweight form if you want to expand memory that way. I know that's not the same as built-in. They all (incl. Microsoft) really want us to be using their respective Cloud storage options, even though they don't yet provide us wth global free high-speed wifi to really take advantage of such.
a positive argument for this tablet and frankly I'm not sure I have one.
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It's purportedly attractive and pleasing to hold, cool keyboard charging and mechanisms, good specs (besides relatively limited storage space), very portable and nice size for frequent use, wide range of Android apps, reliable hardware and software, latest and greatest software and updates.
The practical side of me says Surface, but every other fiber of my being says Pixel C.
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This is a strong argument for the Pixel C. If you're not reasonably/unreasonably smitten with your device then what's really the point?
I think the strongest argument for the Surface above the Pixel C is not as much the storage space (even though that is a huge sticking point with me in general -- storage and ram. I'm annoyed at the general offerings by the technology world in this regard), but the Surface Pro capabilities as a digitizer. If you'll use a pen to screen, then the only choice is the Surface (but then the SP4 is much improved in that regard over the SP3...) Otherwise, for a high-powered Android device you can play and work and browse and do Android things with, Pixel is the choice for you.
If you can wait yet, wait for a bit more news on the Pixel C and some proper hands-on reviews to see if you're still intrigued. If they don't give me news soon, they're making the decision for me. (Grrrrrrr.)

ferrydust said:
Okay if you have this, then you may not need another laptop[hybrid] in the Surface, neh?
It does have that type-C usb port that can take external storage in a small lightweight form if you want to expand memory that way. I know that's not the same as built-in. They all (incl. Microsoft) really want us to be using their respective Cloud storage options, even though they don't yet provide us wth global free high-speed wifi to really take advantage of such.
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Yes, the use case does not apply at home, only during travel, and it deserves to be said that the case is served by a normal laptop currently--only the convenience of a smaller, lighter system is implied.
I just don't think moving images from my SLR to the cloud is all that good an idea. It already takes long enough to establish comm with the EyeFi card, adding several seconds to each image transfer to the cloud when you just took 20-30 shots seems excessive.
ferrydust said:
This is a strong argument for the Pixel C. If you're not reasonably/unreasonably smitten with your device then what's really the point?
I think the strongest argument for the Surface above the Pixel C is not as much the storage space (even though that is a huge sticking point with me in general -- storage and ram. I'm annoyed at the general offerings by the technology world in this regard), but the Surface Pro capabilities as a digitizer. If you'll use a pen to screen, then the only choice is the Surface (but then the SP4 is much improved in that regard over the SP3...) Otherwise, for a high-powered Android device you can play and work and browse and do Android things with, Pixel is the choice for you.
If you can wait yet, wait for a bit more news on the Pixel C and some proper hands-on reviews to see if you're still intrigued. If they don't give me news soon, they're making the decision for me. (Grrrrrrr.)
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So follow my heart? That's not my normal approach with hardware. Still, the very fact that I'm engaged here and checking several times a day does tell you that my heart is not to be trifled with. FYI, I read yesterday that Marshmallow is optimized for active stylus. But the whole of the application space for its use has always been less than inspiring, and keeping track of a stylus seems a bit of a chore. I will probably try one out though. As I alluded to earlier, the Note stylus barely got used and that was largely because it was a pain to use--largely a function of its size and the button placement. Its size was mainly driven by its storage method--which was a sensible feature. The surface stylus seems clumsy when it comes to keeping track of it. So IMHO there are limitations with how easy a stylus is to live with. It isn't on my list of must haves.
I'm with you on the lack of solid information. And I am so tired of the endless attempts to make this out as a competitor to the Surface with all the comparisons--just doesn't sound realistic to me.

wclark57 said:
Yes, the use case does not apply at home, only during travel, and it deserves to be said that the case is served by a normal laptop currently--only the convenience of a smaller, lighter system is implied.
I just don't think moving images from my SLR to the cloud is all that good an idea. It already takes long enough to establish comm with the EyeFi card, adding several seconds to each image transfer to the cloud when you just took 20-30 shots seems excessive.
So follow my heart? That's not my normal approach with hardware. Still, the very fact that I'm engaged here and checking several times a day does tell you that my heart is not to be trifled with. FYI, I read yesterday that Marshmallow is optimized for active stylus. But the whole of the application space for its use has always been less than inspiring, and keeping track of a stylus seems a bit of a chore. I will probably try one out though. As I alluded to earlier, the Note stylus barely got used and that was largely because it was a pain to use--largely a function of its size and the button placement. Its size was mainly driven by its storage method--which was a sensible feature. The surface stylus seems clumsy when it comes to keeping track of it. So IMHO there are limitations with how easy a stylus is to live with. It isn't on my list of must haves.
I'm with you on the lack of solid information. And I am so tired of the endless attempts to make this out as a competitor to the Surface with all the comparisons--just doesn't sound realistic to me.
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Also,
If they ultimately release a 128 GB version then I will stop complaining about memory--though I would still prefer it to be removable. Beyond the very real need to have space for pictures, is the convenience of traveling with something that would be able to replace my work laptop. I hope to convince the company to pop for a Surface so I think I'm just going to stop thinking about that. Still, if anyone uses an Android for work--using Office or Google Drive and its office suite--then workflow discussions would help.

wclark57 said:
Also,
If they ultimately release a 128 GB version then I will stop complaining about memory--though I would still prefer it to be removable. Beyond the very real need to have space for pictures, is the convenience of traveling with something that would be able to replace my work laptop. I hope to convince the company to pop for a Surface so I think I'm just going to stop thinking about that. Still, if anyone uses an Android for work--using Office or Google Drive and its office suite--then workflow discussions would help.
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I use a Note Pro 12.2 and I find both multiwindow and pen window to be absolutely brilliant. I am not sure I could use another android device without the pen window. I do use it for some work stuff when I am at home or away from my desk. For the most part I use Hancom Office apps for a couple of reason; first, it seems completely compatible with almost all other office suites, and second, because I use the s-mouse with my Note pro and in Hancom the s mouse has right click capability. As far as I know hancom is the only android office suite that has right click compatability built in and it means I can actually edit the data sets in excell fully on my Note Tablet. If the Pixel C does get a version of android with multiwindow support I would definately consider it. Otherwise the SP3/SP4 are the best option.

They certainly could have fixed it for the 12.2. Multi-window on the older note was great, but on the 2014 it just sucks. I click on a youtube link and half the screen is the browser window and half is the youtube window and I can only make either of them about two thirds the screen size by dragging the dividing line one way or the other. No movable windows, just a split screen, and no discernible way to make one take full screen. I don't tend to use the word, but I hate the thing.

Considering this is a Google tablet running pure Marshmallow, being able to unlock and root it to customize it, like putting Linux on it, or maybe even dual booting it for both Android or Linux or even Windows, it's pretty much a no brainer for me to get this. The 64 gb is the perfect amount of storage for me as well.

I've beat-up on the Galaxy Note 2014 enough to feel compelled to report that it just updated to Marshmallow.

wclark57 said:
I've beat-up on the Galaxy Note 2014 enough to feel compelled to report that it just updated to Marshmallow.
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Wat. I just got mine on Lollipop 5.1.1
How are you on Marshmallow?!?
I will say the 5.1.1 update was a positive but I am still gunning for the Pixel C.
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kibmikey1 said:
Considering this is a Google tablet running pure Marshmallow, being able to unlock and root it to customize it, like putting Linux on it, or maybe even dual booting it for both Android or Linux or even Windows, it's pretty much a no brainer for me to get this. The 64 gb is the perfect amount of storage for me as well.
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I dont think Windows will work on an ARM processor. I could be wrong though. I have heard of a decent amount of people wanting to dual boot into Linux though.
What I would really love is a dual boot of android/chromeOS.

atg284 said:
Wat. I just got mine on Lollipop 5.1.1
How are you on Marshmallow?!?
I will say the 5.1.1 update was a positive but I am still gunning for the Pixel C.
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I dont think Windows will work on an ARM processor. I could be wrong though. I have heard of a decent amount of people wanting to dual boot into Linux though.
What I would really love is a dual boot of android/chromeOS.
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Yes, I should have checked my version numbers.