Database Users

HD2 vs iPhone 3GS: Guitar Hero 5..why why why is it better on the.......

I had a chance to download Guitar Hero 5 for the iPhone 3GS today.
After checking out this game (and obviously a host of others), why in the world are games so much more cleaning, crisper and less drag then on the HD2? The HD2 has the bigger, faster hardware with a higher end screen.
CAn you someone shed some light on why the games are just horrible on the HD2 (al la PS1/NES/SNES graphics) whereas the iPhone with its less then higher hardware performs so much smoother and games look a lot better?
I read somewhere that winmo 6.5 is limited to output display which may very well have everything to do with the weak graphics. I don't know
Thoughts appreciated

lazy developers

Well, there's the obvious reason why it's better. The touch screen on the HD2 sucks, this is vital part of the gaming experience.

the touch screen has nothing to do with the quality of the graphics, and as for using it once you get the hang of your screen its just as good as any other, practice!
im gonna agree with above post, the developers probably did a piss poor job just to get it out of the door, if its not optimized for the hardware we have then its not going to work, an you can bet it will be optimized for the iphone with all its publicity.
think of it like an old computer game thats not using SSE or HT&L, gonna be a huge drag on performance but it will work

Windows Mobile devices have all different hardware. Some prefer snapdragon, while other uses another arm chip. Then you have different graphics chips. One more powerfull the the other. In the end, it would be impossible to optimize games to run on every winmo device. iPhone for example, doesn;t have these obstacles. So it's pretty fair to say that it is because of the many, many differnt winmo devices with all different hardware.

Try Rockband instead it is far superior!!! UI is great, game runs fluid, controls are awesome, game has MUCH more content...
Only fail: you need internetconnection to play it.
Greets

you are right.. games on winmo SUCKS.. i have iphone 3g also. Hd2 is better than iphone in all other aspects than GAMES.. Playing Games on Iphone is a Fun.. you can show off the games.. graphics, sound everything is good.
But on HD2 or any other winmo .. Games quality is Like DOS PROMPT GAME.. Sucks in graphics .. even Games available with HD version like assassin creeds, Need for speed, Ferrari gt.. All comes with Stupid HD graphics..
only Bubble breaker n solitaire got good quality in graphics lolz

hyellow said:
Windows Mobile devices have all different hardware. Some prefer snapdragon, while other uses another arm chip. Then you have different graphics chips. One more powerfull the the other. In the end, it would be impossible to optimize games to run on every winmo device. iPhone for example, doesn;t have these obstacles. So it's pretty fair to say that it is because of the many, many differnt winmo devices with all different hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I have used or have ever owned an iPhone, but maybe, just maybe this is one of the advantages of the tied down system the iPhone employs. This is the the same tied down system that most on this forum moan on and on about.

The majority of iPhone users want games...... not so many wm users give a toss about games....
easier to develop for iPhone etc etc..... its probably all got something to with why moss only grows on the south side of a tree trunk and cows have seven stomachs.......

conantroutman said:
The majority of iPhone users want games...... not so many wm users give a toss about games....
easier to develop for iPhone etc etc..... its probably all got something to with why moss only grows on the south side of a tree trunk and cows have seven stomachs.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 can have amazing game graphics even better then the iPhone, just follow the following simple steps!
1.Install an Android ROM
2.Run the Android on HD2
3.Now Play HD games

you can run android on the hd2???
well you learn something new every day

xda2_haseeb said:
HD2 can have amazing game graphics even better then the iPhone, just follow the following simple steps!
1.Install an Android ROM
2.Run the Android on HD2
3.Now Play HD games
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah - I'm playing games now like I was a kid again! Having used WM for years, I can't believe the difference in the quality of the games and apps in general.
The HD2 has the power to deliver, it's just that the OS can't. Which is now why I'm running Android 90% of the time.

Towserspvm2000 said:
Yeah - I'm playing games now like I was a kid again! Having used WM for years, I can't believe the difference in the quality of the games and apps in general.
The HD2 has the power to deliver, it's just that the OS can't. Which is now why I'm running Android 90% of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you be so kind as to recommend a good build???
Im using ENergy ROM - Reference

rmdeathwish said:
Would you be so kind as to recommend a good build???
Im using ENergy ROM - Reference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For Android, I'm running "Mdeejay_FroYo_Sense_v._2.3_Clean", which is now at 2.4 (which I haven't tried yet) http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=780525
For WM, I'm running this one http://hotfile.com/dl/83789233/d43c2d7/Energy.Leo.23148.Sense2.5.Cookie.2.0.Nov.19.7z.html

hey, saw your thread, and I was just wondering about how many people do you guys think abandoned HD2 for WINMO without knowing the fact that HD2 has been running ANdroid for 6 months now... And today it is perfect. Install latest radio, VBN CLEAN ROM and Mdeejay 2.3 sense clean and I get 40HRS BAttery life.

hrm, Thats Windows Mobile my friend.
You want a real OS? go to the Android section on this forum and get any of the vast amazing Android Roms available.
Right now, builds are 99% Perfect.
Using http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=823491 atm, Battery last way longer than it did in WM, phone is WAY faster and the amount of apps you can get... pffft.
Do you want to see all the Androids Runs available?
Check this out: http://android.hd2roms.com/ Sort em by Updated.
I must say I was a big-time Windows Mobile fan, but after trying out Android and all it offers, I'm not coming back to WM ever again.
GL.

conantroutman said:
you can run android on the hd2???
well you learn something new every day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it does!! Like it was built for it!
Towserspvm2000 said:
Yeah - I'm playing games now like I was a kid again! Having used WM for years, I can't believe the difference in the quality of the games and apps in general.
The HD2 has the power to deliver, it's just that the OS can't. Which is now why I'm running Android 90% of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think its the WM that lacks but i think its the WM Game Developers that lack, if you player NFS Shift, Real Soccer 2010 HF on your WM HD2 you would know that its pretty much HD like Sony PSP or PC so Windows Mobile was always capable of that but our developers are the ones which lack the capability

its probably all got something to with why moss only grows on the south side of a tree trunk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*COUGH*... The north side...

thats not always the case, and also try the games on android on the hd2 i think its better than iphone

Airborne Aircrew said:
*COUGH*... The north side...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew that lol.... just testing you all........
Glad to see somebodys paying attention

Windows phone 7 and the hd2 question from a desire owner

Hey guys
I'm looking into purchasing a hd2 from my friend or possibly doing a swap for my desire
My question is what are the chances of seeing a fully working Rom with windows 7 ?
I no about the hardware limitations but is anyone currently working on a Rom ?
Would it be even possible ?
Cheers
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

ascottuk said:
Hey guys
I'm looking into purchasing a hd2 from my friend or possibly doing a swap for my desire
My question is what are the chances of seeing a fully working Rom with windows 7 ?
I no about the hardware limitations but is anyone currently working on a Rom ?
Would it be even possible ?
Cheers
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why would you like to change Desire for HD2?
i'm going to change my HD2 to Desire or Nexus One cause i'm tired of WinMo, with it's low quality apps, and the lack of apps and games that really worth this 4.3" display and HD2's hadrware.
about WP7, there is no working ROM, and no one even know (except Da_G) when it will be working

As far as i know, Da_G is working on it.
Yet still, there is no proof that it will work.
and even if it does work someday, i doubt it will be anytime soon

Sultan1993 said:
why would you like to change Desire for HD2?
i'm going to change my HD2 to Desire or Nexus One cause i'm tired of WinMo, with it's low quality apps, and the lack of apps and games that really worth this 4.3" display and HD2's hadrware.
about WP7, there is no working ROM, and no one even know (except Da_G) when it will be working
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the fact is i get very bored very quickly, iv been on android for a good 18 months, also had a play with Meego and done some developer work on that, i love the screen and i do alot of travelling on trains work wise, its much easier for me to carry a 4.3" mobile around then my 17" laptop to watch a couple of movies. The Desire screen is great, but the video player is an absolute pile of cack, the ones on the market place add very little, sometimes with a file sizer over 2gb i find the playback shocking.
On my friends HD2 playing back a 2gb video file its much much better than on my desire

only for video? go fot hd2
ascottuk said:
Well the fact is i get very bored very quickly, iv been on android for a good 18 months, also had a play with Meego and done some developer work on that, i love the screen and i do alot of travelling on trains work wise, its much easier for me to carry a 4.3" mobile around then my 17" laptop to watch a couple of movies. The Desire screen is great, but the video player is an absolute pile of cack, the ones on the market place add very little, sometimes with a file sizer over 2gb i find the playback shocking.
On my friends HD2 playing back a 2gb video file its much much better than on my desire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you are only for watching video on hd2, go for it. I always watch WWE avi format on the train on the way to work
But let me remind you that you will miss a lot of android's cool features.
especially chatting and emailing. I came from Magic btw
But 18 months is already too much i think, so go get a new one
welcome to HD2 world!

ascottuk said:
Well the fact is i get very bored very quickly, iv been on android for a good 18 months, also had a play with Meego and done some developer work on that, i love the screen and i do alot of travelling on trains work wise, its much easier for me to carry a 4.3" mobile around then my 17" laptop to watch a couple of movies. The Desire screen is great, but the video player is an absolute pile of cack, the ones on the market place add very little, sometimes with a file sizer over 2gb i find the playback shocking.
On my friends HD2 playing back a 2gb video file its much much better than on my desire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and what about battery life? how many hours Desire last when you are watching videos? with it's 1400mAh battery and AMOLED smaller screen?
i think HD2 will last much shorter than Desire...1230mAh and huge screen
of course watching videos on it is great

Sultan1993 said:
and what about battery life? how many hours Desire last when you are watching videos? with it's 1400mAh battery and AMOLED smaller screen?
i think HD2 will last much shorter than Desire...1230mAh and huge screen
of course watching videos on it is great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well my battery life is nothing short of awful, granted i have my desire rooted and running a custom rom and it is slightly overclocked, but also running at a lower voltage, i barely get to the end of the day with facebook running in the background, and also googlemail running,
on a stock rom i get just over a day, i have a 1600mAh extended battery aswel
Whats the facebook and twitter apps like on the HD2? those are my most used apps on my desire
Also can you guys advise how well gogolemail works and also how easy it is to setup, have HTC added in any setup wizards? and does it push email directly to the handset?

oooh another question, iv just come accross some details about the PSX emulator, how good is this? that would pass the time on the train playing some FF7 or FF8!

Sultan1993 said:
why would you like to change Desire for HD2?
i'm going to change my HD2 to Desire or Nexus One cause i'm tired of WinMo, with it's low quality apps, and the lack of apps and games that really worth this 4.3" display and HD2's hadrware.
about WP7, there is no working ROM, and no one even know (except Da_G) when it will be working
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ascottuk said:
Well the fact is i get very bored very quickly, iv been on android for a good 18 months, also had a play with Meego and done some developer work on that, i love the screen and i do alot of travelling on trains work wise, its much easier for me to carry a 4.3" mobile around then my 17" laptop to watch a couple of movies. The Desire screen is great, but the video player is an absolute pile of cack, the ones on the market place add very little, sometimes with a file sizer over 2gb i find the playback shocking.
On my friends HD2 playing back a 2gb video file its much much better than on my desire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tagged words: tired, bored, pile of cack.

What an Awesome Phone

I am really thinking about getting the HTC HD2.
I have just seen some videos of fully running android 2.2 on the HD2 just wondering if this was possible and if so how easy is it.
I was also wondering the gaming capabilities.
Because i know that android, webos and iphones can play gameloft games like NOVA, Avatar, sims 3 so can the HD2?
Thanks!!!!
PS: The thought of having windows phone 6.5 (possible chance of windows phone 7) as well as android 2.2 on one phone blows my mind away, it really does!!!
Evan

It truely is an awesome phone... however, the andriod port is still very much a work in progress and difficult for the average user to set up. MS and HTC has clearly stated that the HD2 will not recieve a WP7 upgrade, so it would also have to be a user port.
Considering that it is unlikely a port of either andriod or WP7 will ever reach the functionality and stability of a device that ships with the OS, you should not get this phone based only on the possibilty of running multiple OS. If, on the other hand, you are very comfortable with winmo 6.5 then yes, the HD2 is a wonderful device.
As for gaming, I don't have any experience with gameloft games (since I don't like to pay for stuff) but there are TONS of great games that work perfectly well. With Morphgear and FPSEce, you have hundereds of classic games at your disposal (assuming you know where to get the ROMs)

some of the videos show the android 2.2 (Froyo) running really smoothly and loads of the functions working, including the app store which surely means you could get some of the android apps as well which would be cool.
I don't mind how well it works and if some bits don't work, just the fact that i could have both operating systems would be cool.
I also know about the windows phone 7 announcments but the chance of someone building a ROM for it are quite likely.
With the games i found on the Nokia n900 it was able to play a n64 emulator, can the HD2, so it can play Ocarina of Time etc. would be amazing on the HD2 and if the n900 can do it the HD2 definatley can.
But yer i have seen some quite nice games on windows phones ( and android and seeing as the chances are that you might be able to acess both app stores...)

I'm not aware of any N64 emulator in development for the HD2. Morphgear can do up to Snes and FPSEce does PSX very well. The Win95 emulator runs good for me as well so I can play a few classic PC games as well.

i personally think if this phone had a n64 emulator it would be one of the most amazing phones, the large range of games on the n64 is amazing if u look at the n900 it runs them quite slow but on the htc it would be super duper

am i allowed to put video links on this forum so i can show the video i found on android 2.2 running well on the HD2?

I'm sure I've seen it. This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f891vm6vWHM

yes thats the one.
It just looks so nice and is so smooth and fast.
It just looks amazing!!!
But yer it does indeed look like a very nice device
does the psx, gba etc. emulators run at full speed (or faster than other devices) because i have seen some on other OS that go really slowly

I get a pretty steady 60fps when playing playstation games and I've never experienced the slightest slowdown in Morphgear either. Occasionally the Psx will drop a bit during some highly demanding situations but the worst I've gotten is a few seconds of about 30fps before it's back to normal. The games I've tested are Battle Arena, Coolboarders 2, MLB 2005, FF7, Driver 2. All work really nice.

Hi Just to add a bit of input here...
Yeah the HD2 is awesome.
About Android - the current Desire V5 port with latest zImage is 'almost' perfect.
Its as smooth and fast as a HTC Desire (compared side by side with a colleagues Desire).
Pretty much everything is working and the stability issues are almost fully gone (i'v had it running all day with no freezes or crashes).
I can download items from the market and they work perfectly - games included so yeah Android on the HD2 is really amazing.
Also don't be put off installing Android it's nowhere near as complicated as the previous poster makes out - there are a lot of useful guides in the Android threads - as long as you know how to drag and drop files your good to go. There's even a dual boot app that aloows you to choose which OS you boot into at start up.
Cheers
Paul

fpsece runs at full speed on HD2 - there's loads of videos on youtube if you want to check it out. This alone was one of the biggest reasons I got the H2
Personally I'm really happy with my HD2 because I have got two operating systems on one device...brilliant.
with Android..All the apps/games i've downloaded from the marketplace have worked so far.
At the moment I still use winmo for day to day use, but I boot android up when I want to view any flash website (android's got flash 10.1, winmo's not) or use any of the apps that are just on android like.. footmob or solo
If I broke my HD2 today, i'd still go out and buy another one instead of anything else that's available

Dual Booting sounds so awesome.
I really want to try thi out!

are there any other OS that can be used, cause that would be cool
e.g. WebOs, Maemo 5 etc.

Well this thread makes things so normal.
Comon both mentioned thing are so awesome. Playstation games on mobile phone? It wont get more awesome than this. Comon people it also have multitouch, G-sensor and more stuff (like vibration feedback).
Also the latest ANDROID runs so great. The speed is amazing. The stability is just great and almost everything works.
Comon guys be more enthusiam about it (oO,)

i just thought about dual booting and the amazing possibilities of this.
I know some people may have put some posts and showed there intrest in thise but what if you could dual boot more than 2 operating systems!
What if on one device you could have
1. Windows
2. Android
3. Maemo
4. Web OS
This could make one Legendary device and surely is possible on the HD2 if this happened or even if 3 os were managed it would be orgasmic.
OMG i would love it.
Just the possibilities AHHHH!
I am so excited!!!

does anyone know if that is possible??????
please answer because i am really excites

it can run win 95 remember...... that counts as an os right?

At the moment the only real "dual boot" is Linux/Andriod and WM. You can run Windows 95 on top of WinMo, but techically you're not booting into it, just emulating it. I've read Win 98 also works but it's very slow (havn't tried '98 personally). Andriod is comming along really well. I'm running Desire V5 at the moment, but contrary to what a previous poster mentioned, I experience quite a bit of lag/freezing (depending on what I'm doing). It may be that I need to flash a different ROM I'm sure the experience varies from user to user, but it's far from perfect for me atm. Don't get me wrong, much of it works very well and avioding the parts that are not quite complete helps. But when using Android on my wife's Evo4g and on my HD2 side by side, the difference is noticable (as would be expected). It's also not quite as simple as "drag & drop & run". It's not rocket science either but you should familarize yourself with flashing HSPL and Radio Roms as this may be necessary to get everything working properly.
I'm not aware of any port of WebOS or Maemo but since they run off the linux kernel it should be possible. I'm not sure if there would be enough demand however, to make it worth the time/effort requried to get it working.

i would pay for both of those ports i really would

you never know...
have you decided on the HD2 for certain then?

Major advantages of Desire HD over HD2 with custom Android rom?

I am considering picking up and HD2 and loading it with the latest Desire HD Rom.
Before I fork out, can anyone who has seen both running side by side explain any disadvantages of doing so?
I'd like to hear how the performance is, as the DHD is blisteringly fast and if the HD2 seriously lags with the DHD rom I may well reconsider. Obviously the camera is a selling point of the DHD but when we are looking at nearly £300 difference I can live with the reduced megapixel count!
Seriously tempted to get the DHD and dual boot it with Android and Winmo 6.5 but would love to hear from you guys first about any down sides.
People who have done this already, are you pleased with the result or hankering for the DHD?
Thanks.

maybe the buttons? I hear many HD2 users complaining about them. But I must say I never have troubles with my device, I tested out some other HTC android devices and my HD2 is faster, there are roms here that get 3000 + quadrant score, and the DHD doesn't even get close to this.. But I think, the biggest problem with the HD2 is not always having cell reception. 9% of the time - 30% depending upon the area you live in ofcourse so that doesn't affect but also radio and that does affect so it takes quite a while before you found the best radio for your device, also because the radio affects your battery life. So you need to figure out a radio wich gives you optimal reception and also optimal battery life. I think a radio in the 2.10.50.X class is the best for me, but other users prefer other radio's. I use android every day so I must say, there is absolutely no lag on the HD2 but there is on other devices that run android only. THE PLUS: you can use TOMTOM, play PSX Games with PS3 controller, ... all windows things, yes you can hehe. The minus: booting android takes up to 3 minutes, okay it's not a really big deal but the DHD boots in 10 secs that's really amazing. what is cool is that our builds can be huge because we don't need an internal storage, android runs from SD, and faster than winmo even! so if you use a HIGHSPEED SD (HC), then you will have a nice android device. People are working on a 720P camcorder atm. I don't know I would doubt too! I like having winmo..

The difference is that HD2 has dozen of ROM both for Android and WM you can choose from,this in itself is a big advantage and freedom alike,I myself try an Android build at least a day!,they are fast and furious!,but keep going back to WM,nostalgia ,may be,however my son,who also has an HD2 he has become an Android fan,after he wears out this phone will most probably stick to another HD2.
Sorry if a bit off topic.I say get an HD2 this is a nice device.

Thanks for your input guyts, very helpful!
Can I just ask about the multitouch and the ability to play divx / avi videos using an application such as rockplayer / vplayer? Is this ipossible and as smooth as the native Android devices?
Multitouch I think is important for the on screen keyboard. Is this as good as the native android devices also?
I'm almost sold I think from your comments so far!

xspyda said:
Thanks for your input guyts, very helpful!
Can I just ask about the multitouch and the ability to play divx / avi videos using an application such as rockplayer / vplayer? Is this ipossible and as smooth as the native Android devices?
Multitouch I think is important for the on screen keyboard. Is this as good as the native android devices also?
I'm almost sold I think from your comments so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hd2 only has 2 point multitouch, and it has issues where it will register 2 touches as being on the same axis if they are close to being on same axis. can mess you up when playing games with onscreen controllers. Newer android devices have 4 point multitouch.
I always say if you plan on just running android, get an android phone. When people say the hd2 runs android better than native android phones, they are usually comparing the tweaked, modified hd2 to a stock android phone. If you put in the time tweaking, rooting, and modifying the native android phone properly, it will run android much better than the hd2 can usually. And android phones also have custom roms with different builds you can try out also. A bunch of android phones can now dual-boot into 2 different android builds, running one off sd card, also.
Now, if you want to have winmo also on your phone, you can't beat the HD2. It does run android great for a port... definitely the best android port on a winmo phone... but you can definitely get native android phones with similar specs to run android much better if you take the time to learn to modify and tweak it like you would do with the HD2.

Despite being a big MS fan, I have not gone back to WM since getting Android working smoothly. It runs perfectly for Divx videos on VPlayer (my personal fave)(and using CifManager I even stream movies from my WLAN server when at home!), and I use PSX4Droid with absolutely no lag issues, or multi-touch issues. My one piece of advice if you go down this route is to get the extended battery, so that you get a comfortable 2-day battery life.
Day-to-day, no issues at all, although you do need some trial and error for ROMs/Radio/Kernal.
If my HD2 died tomorrow, I'd get another HD2 for Android full-time. If money was no issue, I'd get the Desire HD, but honestly I do not see any reason against the HD2.

There are some phones that set the trend for XDA. It is the most popular for the time being and most devs own that phone. It might not be the best hardware for its time but since almost all devs and cookers develop for it, it is best to stick to it. I call this XDA phone. Currently, imho, that phone is HD2. This is why HD2 gets more android builds than many native android phones. My next phone will also be an XDA phone

plz answer me

hello . first i greeting the stuff of xda they realy make great efforts
i need help i will buy this phone and need information about it
is it good
i know it realy small & i love it design but is it gaming well?
what about speed?
overclocking ?
and the final this phone or wildfire s?
thank u

think twice
If you want a gaming phone. This is not a phone for you! Starting with hardware then with software the Moto FlipOut is a low end Android device in my opinion. My Girlfriend bought it on Christmas and she ended up using my iPhone4(that got replaced with a MT4G) If you are looking for a good android phone for gaming look for one that has at least 1Ghz processor and a GPU chip Like Samsung Galaxy S line or HTC latest devices. Also if you can afford a dual core phone go for it!
edit: If you really need to choose one of these two phones (Flipout or Wildfire S) I'd say go with the HTC .

i wouldn't say that Flipout is such a low end.. it has 512MB RAM and processor with frequency scalable up to 1,2GHz (1GHz stable) .. so actually it's not that bad. however.. games are practically unplayable due to it's display size and resolution. the display is simply too small for that. if you wanna play games, buy something with 4,3" display, dual-core, tegra-based at best

I haven't had any other android phone, so I can't compare, but first thing I want to say is that this phone sucks. Stuck at 2.1, several bugs in the ROM, crashes from time to time, and the battery for me lasts ~24 hours on moderate use. On heavy use it stops working just when you need it (for example, you used a tracker to map where you're going in a foreign city, and now you want to go back to your car)
But, you get use to these. So sometimes, when you try to call 911, your phone crashes in the middle (happened to me...), or when you hang up a call. And the accelerometer is somehow twisted so very few of the balancing games work.
But, I don't agree with not being able to play. Things like angry birds or moon chaser work very nicely. As does the NES emulator. So, slow not too hectic games work very nicely.
And the form factor is amazing. It is really nice to have the phone in your pocket, and to have to look for it, because you can't tell in which pocket it is.
That's why I still have it - I really love it. I don't see any other phone that will be as convenient.
I bet you're wish you hadn't asked

thank u all friends but at all i bought it i didnt have money for glaxsy -s
but my friends i see post in this section say that they able to play angry bird & Guerrilla Bob & novo this games is high