Related
Hey, atm while i was learning more about the G1, I kept the 1 GB in there. I now want to know more about the installing apps to SD part of it. 1st off after I get a memory card. (Which btw I saw I can get a 2 GB model. How do I know if its good? Sandisk work ok or do I need a SDHC or no?
Also after applying the fix that does apps to SD. Would that mean anything I install from the market after that point auto installs to the SD? Also is it worth it? Right now I was comfortable installing to the internal memory this way I could unmount the SD card and not worry about something going horribly wrong that needed access or so. (I like to know about things I do to my phone before doing it.)
Anyways just wanted to get some info on this a lil more and know if its worth it so I can continue looking into it and how to do it. Thanks. =)
1. I'm not sure about sandisk, but the one i use (Transcend) works just fine. I'm not really that too good with sdcard specs lol...
2. Yep, every app you install from the market will be installed to your sdcard. Well, to me, it's really worth it because you can get more apps and not really have to bother with that low memory warning... I also think it removes some lag lol
Ok sounds good, so to confirm, I DO 100% need a 2 GB at least to use? How do I know if its the right type tho?
Also my current apps, is there a way to move them over easy enough or do I need to wipe my phone and reinstall everything from scrath? ( One of the reasons I avoided this since I really did not want to lose a couple of these apps since they are older ones and not "Trial" or they were removed, or just hard to track what I did have)
Mysticales said:
Ok sounds good, so to confirm, I DO 100% need a 2 GB at least to use? How do I know if its the right type tho?
Also my current apps, is there a way to move them over easy enough or do I need to wipe my phone and reinstall everything from scrath? ( One of the reasons I avoided this since I really did not want to lose a couple of these apps since they are older ones and not "Trial" or they were removed, or just hard to track what I did have)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, you only need 500 megs of space on ext partition. More than that, and it'll lag a little bit.
I actually have my sd partitioned 6gb/2gb fat32/ext2 respectively.
A class 6 sd card (you can tell by the small number in the corner... no number, probably a class 2 then) is recommended, but I am using a class 4.
If you put music and video on your sd, I would recommend going with a 4gb or higher card.
So where does it install the apps to? EXT2? So normally you only wanna have 500 megs on ext2?
But 1 GB wouldnt be worth doing this right?
Also any news on if I can move all my apps to it or if it had to be reinstalled?
Also how do you really go about finding a app that is no longer on the market but yet has updates for?
Mysticales said:
So where does it install the apps to? EXT2? So normally you only wanna have 500 megs on ext2?
But 1 GB wouldnt be worth doing this right?
Also any news on if I can move all my apps to it or if it had to be reinstalled?
Also how do you really go about finding a app that is no longer on the market but yet has updates for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldnt use a 1gb card, but thats because I like to put music and videos on my phone.
All applications downloaded after you create the symbolic link to install applications on sd will be installed on the ext2 partition.
Everytime you wipe (factory reset) your user data, only a few commands are needed to restore the symbolic link. So, no you won't need to reinstall your apps (your unprotected apps anyways).
I would use atrackdog to find apps that arent on the market but have updates
Apps to sd
here ya go dude
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=468959&highlight=(modded)+apps+sd
just follow these instructions, theyre the ones i used.
If you don't know how to use, or setup ADB, then at the bottom there are some instructions to use terminal emulator
Hope this helps
well I use atrackdog. But are you saying I should just use that to reinstall them? Most of my apps are from the market except for some. However while it says it has a update for a app, when I goto the market its no longer there some of the apps.
You wont lose the apps... no need to worry about that, it doesnt affect what apps you have, it just simply moves all the files from the apps to your sdcard... the only thing removed or changed will just probably be a theme and thats it lol...
cool. After that, I assume I would need to turn off the phone to take the card out and add files to it? Also if I wanted to "upgrade" the card later on, how would one move the files over? Use Linux to transfer the files directly to the other SD card or what?
Atrack will sometimes track beta testing versions that are only available to testers, so you wont always be able to utilize atrack dog to install updates.
Trust me, if you like downloading and trying out apps, you'll be glad you made the switch
Woot, I did it, Using a Kingston 2 GB
I updated to the JFvMOD by LucidREM, which I assume I had to do 1st for the SD apps right? Then I did the copy apps and data, seems everything converted over correctly, so Im happy about that, finally have workable space again and my G1 doesnt force close anymore due to lack of space.
Now come some other questions. I know in Linux I can access the memory card with a adapter to put files on. However in windows, how will this work? If I use usb will it only read the fat32 partition or will it try to read both? I know when I plugged it in by a adapter directly, WinXP acts like it doesnt see the memory card. It knows one is there, but it wants to format it. (Which I dont, granted odd since I do have the mod on WinXP that lets me see EXT3 partions)
Now the bigger question. When JF updates his regular version (Whenever G1 updates) will I be required to wait for THIS modded version to be updated before continuing or how does that all work for updates now? I used to know with the regular one but now that I use a mod of a mod version. Kinda confused where I stand. Heh.
But yes, so far I am happy I made the switch, got 58 megs free of internal heh. (I assume thats correct on a normal thing?)
Also later on with new apps etc, will they try to use internal memory or will EVERYTHING run to the SD card now? (How do you even check the EXT2 free space now? Astro or what?) If it does use internal, do I need to somehow do regular transfers over to the SD?
Anyways I know alot of questions, but least after this Ill have a better understanding how to keep proceeding. Thanks. =)
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
brk said:
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advantage: Allows more multitasking due to more memory use from the sd card.
Disadvantage: Shortens the sd card life.
If you plan to use swap or A2SD, I recommend getting a class 6 sd card. Some people are opposed to swap, some people are all up for it. It's just up to your preference. For me, swap is just nice that an app doesn't close when I'm using another app.
koreancanuck said:
Advantage: Allows more multitasking due to more memory use from the sd card.
Disadvantage: Shortens the sd card life.
If you plan to use swap or A2SD, I recommend getting a class 6 sd card. Some people are opposed to swap, some people are all up for it. It's just up to your preference. For me, swap is just nice that an app doesn't close when I'm using another app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A good answer but slightly incomplete. Most sdcards have wear leveling so having swap on your card will do very minimal damage.
brk said:
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to have a swap file (swap.swp) this could possibly corrupt your fat partition. This is based on my own personal experience of course. I recommend use a swap partition honestly.
Just imagine mounting your sdcard to your computer to transfer files while your phone is still attempting to write to /sdcard/swap.swp. This can theoritically cause problems. And you don't want problems on your sdcard. A seperate partition is the safest way to go. But again... just my opinion.
Note that if you are using a rom based on Cyanogen's kernel (such as 5.0.7 or 5.0.8) it is NOT recommended to use swap at all. It will slow down your phone causing more problems than what it's worth. ('Swap grave' is how he put it.)
Binary100100 said:
If you want to have a swap file (swap.swp) this could possibly corrupt your fat partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does that happen?
endolith said:
How does that happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your system is writing to the .swp while you mount/unmount the sdcard it can corrupt the card. It's better to use the partition.
In addition if your system is setup to use the swap.swp on your fat32 partition and you mount it to your computer, what do you suppose would happen to your system since it can no longer have access to the .swp file?
Again... not a good idea.
I don't see how unmounting the swap partition is any different from unmounting the partition with a swap file on it.
Just say no!
endolith said:
I don't see how unmounting the swap partition is any different from unmounting the partition with a swap file on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but other than when you shut down your phone, when does your swap partition get [un]mounted?
AdrianK said:
Right, but other than when you shut down your phone, when does your swap partition get [un]mounted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you plug it into a computer, isn't the whole SD card mounted?
endolith said:
When you plug it into a computer, isn't the whole SD card mounted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your computer's OS can only mount the filesystems it supports, for example OOTB Windows only supports FAT and NTFS, so it can't do anything with ext. Anyway, linux-swap is non-persistant, you can't mount it to view the contents, my understanding is that should you mount it on linux, the swap partition will be ignored.
AdrianK said:
Your computer's OS can only mount the filesystems it supports, for example OOTB Windows only supports FAT and NTFS, so it can't do anything with ext.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the point is that they're all unmounted before the SD card can be shared with the computer as a mass storage device, so I don't see there being any difference between a swap partition and a swap file.
Besides, Swapper has a default "safe" option that unmounts swap before sharing SD with the computer and remounts it after disconnecting.
endolith said:
But the point is that they're all unmounted before the SD card can be shared with the computer as a mass storage device, so I don't see there being any difference between a swap partition and a swap file.
Besides, Swapper has a default "safe" option that unmounts swap before sharing SD with the computer and remounts it after disconnecting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't aware that Swapper has such a feature but that doesn't change the fact that if your running say ~200mb of RAM with ~64mb of swap and with all the multitasking that you're doing you're using up most of it... so say you have only ~10mb free. Then all of a sudden you pull out your sdcard. What do you think happen will happen? Your phone was reading and writing to that card! Do you think that's healthy? If Swapper unmounts it before it shares the sdcard with the computer then it may be better for the sdcard but I don't see how that can have a positive impact on the device. However if you have swap on a seperate partition the only way to run into this problem would be to remove the card from the device. Even if you mount the sdcard to the computer the phone still has access to the swap partition just like it still has access to the ext partition (if it has one).
I don't know about you but I have a 16gb class 6 card and it's a pain in the butt to restore my data to the fat partition so I would rather not have anything read/write to it unless necessary and to have something constantly reading and writing to it is a really bad idea in my case... but maybe you have a ~2gb and reloading the data may not be annoying to you.
Anyway... stick with what works. I've tried them all and based on my own experience I suggest the separate partition if you are going to use swap. But hey... what do I know?
By the way... do NOT use swap on CM5 or CM6. It may help at first but you'll be enroute to digging "a swap grave" (quoted by Cyanogen himself).
Your phone will ONLY share FAT when mounted to PC
Ext and Swap are still running on the phone(app2sd how do you think apps keep working after mounting?)
Same deal with Swap...
I personally do not use Swap although i do have a 128mb Swap Partition.
Binary100100 said:
I wasn't aware that Swapper has such a feature but that doesn't change the fact that if your running say ~200mb of RAM with ~64mb of swap and with all the multitasking that you're doing you're using up most of it... so say you have only ~10mb free. Then all of a sudden you pull out your sdcard. What do you think happen will happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android routinely kills processes as part of its "task management", and the apps are expected to save their state using "Bundles" so that when you restart them, they restart in the same state they were last in. Is unplugging the swap more harsh than killing the app?
Once Android determines that it needs to remove a process, it does this brutally, simply force-killing it. The kernel can then immediately reclaim all resources needed by the process, without relying on that application being well written and responsive to a polite request to exit. Allowing the kernel to immediately reclaim application resources makes it a lot easier to avoid serious out of memory situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if you mount the sdcard to the computer the phone still has access to the swap partition just like it still has access to the ext partition (if it has one).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. When you mount the SD card, the entire SD card is available on the computer, including the FAT, EXT, and swap partitions, but the phone can't access the FAT partition?
I can see the contents of the swap partition from the computer with "sudo cat /dev/sdb3", but the phone can still access it? If I run "free" on the phone, it still shows swap, and the used size still changes, so I guess the phone is still using it, but the computer can see it at the same time, too.
In that case, I understand why it would make more sense to use swap partition than swap file.
I don't know about you but I have a 16gb class 6 card and it's a pain in the butt to restore my data to the fat partition so I would rather not have anything read/write to it unless necessary and to have something constantly reading and writing to it is a really bad idea in my case... but maybe you have a ~2gb and reloading the data may not be annoying to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an 8 GB Class 6 and I don't understand what you're talking about. What do you mean "restore your data to the fat partition"? Restore it from what? What's the point of having an SD card if you don't want anything reading from it?
Anyway... stick with what works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way... do NOT use swap on CM5 or CM6. It may help at first but you'll be enroute to digging "a swap grave" (quoted by Cyanogen himself).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does that mean? Where did he say that? In what context?
I'm using swapper with CM5, and it's like buying a new phone. It greatly speeds up the phone's responsiveness.
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one, using Windows that is.
As for using swap, a quick Google search will show you a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1 an older mytouchs with the lower RAM space. Actually most say that using compcache is the better way to go if you've got the extra RAM space.
Sent from my HTC Magic using XDA App
endolith said:
What does that mean? Where did he say that? In what context?
I'm using swapper with CM5, and it's like buying a new phone. It greatly speeds up the phone's responsiveness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess nobody listens to the people that know what they are talking about. Then they always complain when it doesn't work properly. #Ironic
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13986716217
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13624854797
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13979643918
Enough for you?
And I'm aware that 2.2 automatically kills idle apps, which is all the more reason that you do not need swap.
And your phone cannot access the /sdcard or /mnt/sdcard partition while it is connected to your computer as removable storage. Try it.
Try downloading something to your sdcard while it's connected as removable storage. You can't. Your phone does not have access to the sdcard. In fact... while it's mounted to your computer go to settings SD card & phone storage settings and tell me what it says under Total space and Available space.
Do NOT use a large .swp file because your phone is constantly writing to the sdcard! All it takes is a single instance of removing it without unmounting it and you will have corrupted the entire contents of the fat partition. That is what I mean by restoring the data on the sdcard. I use an ADATA 16gb class 6 sdcard and each time that I tried with the .swp file I ended up losing my data because of random kernel crashes, dead battery, unsafe sdcard mounting etc.
But if you are really convinced of otherwise then go on ahead but I'll tell you right now, I will refuse to help anyone that never listened to my advice the first time. If I give a warning and if someone doesn't listen then it's all on them. I will personally refuse to help them and I wouldn't blame anyone for doing the same. Cyanogen warned users not to use swap. So those that have issues shouldn't complain to him or anyone else because it's their own fault.
All quotes from Cyanogen on twitter. You should follow him and learn something.
@w3stbr00k I don't know.. none of my roms have swap support built in. You would have had to do it yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@misscocogold t3 is otw in an hour or so. Make sure you aren't using swap or task killers too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@singharvinder the new code actually uses swap more aggressively as a side effect
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@singharvinder are you using swap? Don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DonJuan692006 said:
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one.
As for using swap, a quick Google search will show you a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1 an older mytouchs with the lower RAM space. Actually most say that using compcache is the better way to go if you've got the extra RAM space.
Sent from my HTC Magic using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can actually access the swap partition from a Linux based OS such as Ubuntu/Live CD.
When you mount the sdcard you also have access to the ext2,3,4 partition if it's available.
See what I get for being Windows exclusive? Edited my first post to be more precise with my wording.
DonJuan692006 said:
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Linux, both the SD and EXT partitions are mounted, but I can see and access all three. I can see all three partitions in Windows 7 Disk Management, too, but of course Windows can only mount the FAT partition.
a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a G1.
Binary100100 said:
I guess nobody listens to the people that know what they are talking about. Then they always complain when it doesn't work properly. #Ironic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking for truth, not rumor. I'm not going to blindly accept statements made without explanation.
Enough for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I want to understand why it's a bad idea. Twitter posts aren't exactly comprehensive.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13986716217
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a recommendation against swap. Someone was talking about disabling swap, and he said it's not his problem because CM doesn't come with swap enabled.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13624854797
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read this as "If you're having problems with apps closing, disable swap and task managers. Maybe you have those configured wrong." That doesn't mean swap is inherently harmful.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13979643918
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is about speed and performance, not harm.
And I'm aware that 2.2 automatically kills idle apps, which is all the more reason that you do not need swap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is the standard response in threads like this. "Android automatically manages tasks and memory, so you shouldn't try to second-guess it". But, empirically, swap makes the phone run better and faster.
If you switch to another app from the browser, for instance, the browser almost always gets killed, and then it has to reload the entire page from the Internet when you switch back to it. This takes wayyyy longer than reloading the state from swap, and causes problems when the web page is dynamic.
Many apps take much longer to start up than they should, or don't actually return to the same state when they're restarted, and swapping them out works better. I'm guessing the people who are happy with the stock system use their phones differently.
And your phone cannot access the /sdcard or /mnt/sdcard partition while it is connected to your computer as removable storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I already agreed with that. Swap file is a bad idea since it's inaccessible when you mount on the computer, but swap partition still is. Agreed.
endolith said:
In Linux, both the SD and EXT partitions are mounted, but I can see and access all three. I can see all three partitions in Windows 7 Disk Management, too, but of course Windows can only mount the FAT partition.
I've got a G1.
I'm looking for truth, not rumor. I'm not going to blindly accept statements made without explanation.
Nope. I want to understand why it's a bad idea. Twitter posts aren't exactly comprehensive.
This is not a recommendation against swap. Someone was talking about disabling swap, and he said it's not his problem because CM doesn't come with swap enabled.
I read this as "If you're having problems with apps closing, disable swap and task managers. Maybe you have those configured wrong." That doesn't mean swap is inherently harmful.
This thread is about speed and performance, not harm.
Yes, this is the standard response in threads like this. "Android automatically manages tasks and memory, so you shouldn't try to second-guess it". But, empirically, swap makes the phone run better and faster.
If you switch to another app from the browser, for instance, the browser almost always gets killed, and then it has to reload the entire page from the Internet when you switch back to it. This takes wayyyy longer than reloading the state from swap, and causes problems when the web page is dynamic.
Many apps take much longer to start up than they should, or don't actually return to the same state when they're restarted, and swapping them out works better. I'm guessing the people who are happy with the stock system use their phones differently.
Yes, I already agreed with that. Swap file is a bad idea since it's inaccessible when you mount on the computer, but swap partition still is. Agreed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it sounds like you have answered the threads questions then. An expert such as yourself should have come along a while ago and stated this for the community. Now that you have discredited Cyanogen and all the other Senior Members and developers maybe I'll just direct all of my private messages regarding swap, compcache and userinit.sh scripts to you. Enjoy it!
Can someone explain to me what is inside the vibrant that is used as storage.
People refer to the internal memory card, why, is it an actual memory card or is it simply because apps cannot be stored there.
Why is the app storage space limited to 2gb if the internal memory is 16gb, and if all 16gb resides on the same medium can't it just be symlinked similar to what people do with apps2sd on other phones with no detriment in performance?
Calcvictim said:
Can someone explain to me what is inside the vibrant that is used as storage.
People refer to the internal memory card, why, is it an actual memory card or is it simply because apps cannot be stored there.
Why is the app storage space limited to 2gb if the internal memory is 16gb, and if all 16gb resides on the same medium can't it just be symlinked similar to what people do with apps2sd on other phones with no detriment in performance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are 2 storage types soldered onto the vibrant. NAND (fast, small) and "flash" (16g, slow).
The nand is split up for various things like booting, firmware (/system), cache, etc. And - to solve lag with their own apps - 128 megs of it is split out for the built-in apps to use. (That is the 'method 1' fix - move all app data to nand, where it is super fast.)
The 16 gigs of flash is much slower than nand, and split into 2 sections:
- /data (mmcblk0p1) is android apps, app storage, settings, etc. (2 gigs of "application space"). This is the standard android-phone onboard storage, and not accessible to the PC.
- /sdcard (mmcblk0p2) is the 14 gig media/misc space. Standard fat filesystem, shown when you plug into the PC. (They basically subverted the standard android sdcard handling for this - solves some problems, but causes others.)
The removable sd is mounted to "/sdcard/sd".
^ awesome post man, care if I stick it in the sticky?
Disconn3ct said:
There are 2 storage types soldered onto the vibrant. NAND (fast, small) and "flash" (16g, slow).
The nand is split up for various things like booting, etc. And - to solve lag with their own apps - 128 megs of it is split out for the built-in apps to use. (That is the 'method 1' fix - move all apps to nand, where it is super fast.)
The flash is much slower than nand, and split into 2 sections:
- /data is android apps, app storage, settings, etc. (2 gigs of "application space"). This is the standard android-phone onboard storage, and not accessible to the PC.
- /sdcard is the large media/misc space. Standard fat filesystem, shown when you plug into the PC. (They basically subverted the standard android sdcard handling for this - solves some problems, but causes others.)
The removable sd is mounted to "/sdcard/sd".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so RyanZA's lag fix, which creates a 1gb file system within the 2 gigs....why can't it be mapped outside of the original appspace since everything resides on flash anyway, the speeds should be the same, no?
s15274n said:
^ awesome post man, care if I stick it in the sticky?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. (I wanted to doublecheck some info, so it is slightly updated.)
Calcvictim said:
so RyanZA's lag fix, which creates a 1gb file system within the 2 gigs....why can't it be mapped outside of the original appspace since everything resides on flash anyway, the speeds should be the same, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"mapped outside the original appspace"? Those words all make sense but not in that order
Data (and cache and so forth) all use samsung's proprietary RFS filesystem. (It has been described as "fat with wear levelling, unix perms and journalling".) The loopback mount fix basically bypasses all that and just shows rfs a large monolithic file. You lose reliability (journal) and flash protection (wear levelling, erase optimization) and so forth, but get speeds much closer to the raw flash. (Personally, I'm a fan of not prematurely destroying soldered on storage..)
One of the things to be tried is yaffs/jffs in place of rfs - all the advantages/protections with much better performance..
Disconn3ct said:
"mapped outside the original appspace"? Those words all make sense but not in that order
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand about the RFS, I just don't really understand why the appspace is limited to 2 gigs when there are 16 gigs on the same piece of silicon. Why is it not a matter of partitioning and mounting the other 16 gigs?
Calcvictim said:
I understand about the RFS, I just don't really understand why the appspace is limited to 2 gigs when there are 16 gigs on the same piece of silicon. Why is it not a matter of partitioning and mounting the other 16 gigs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, it's not "the other 16 gigs". It is 16 gigs total - 2 for apps/data, 14 for media/etc.
How pissed would you be if only kies (and adb) could get to that storage? That's why - 14 of it is presented as vfat, so that it can be exported over usb to the pc. You might be able to adjust the split a little (eg 8/8) using modified pit files and odin, but I wouldn't even count on that..
Certainly you can't share the space - android security guarantees that only the app (well, and root, but..) can read the app's files. Not the pc, not other apps. So you need something vfat hasn't got (owners, permissions) and you need to not export it to the pc where those limits won't be enforced. (Finally, you only get one fs user at a time - if you have it on the pc, you can't have it on the phone. "Please reboot into usb mode" hasn't been OK since the late 90s...)
Disconn3ct said:
First, it's not "the other 16 gigs". It is 16 gigs total - 2 for apps/data, 14 for media/etc.
How pissed would you be if only kies (and adb) could get to that storage? That's why - 14 of it is presented as vfat, so that it can be exported over usb to the pc. You might be able to adjust the split a little (eg 8/8) using modified pit files and odin, but I wouldn't even count on that..
Certainly you can't share the space - android security guarantees that only the app (well, and root, but..) can read the app's files. Not the pc, not other apps. So you need something vfat hasn't got (owners, permissions) and you need to not export it to the pc where those limits won't be enforced. (Finally, you only get one fs user at a time - if you have it on the pc, you can't have it on the phone. "Please reboot into usb mode" hasn't been OK since the late 90s...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so if someone did modify the PIT file then it would be possible. It's not a hardware limitation, but just the way the firmware is setup.
What speed is the other 14Gb? How does it compare to standard microSD? Class 4 at least?
Calcvictim said:
Ok, so if someone did modify the PIT file then it would be possible. It's not a hardware limitation, but just the way the firmware is setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Modify the pit, and the bootloader, and (possibly) the rfs partition scheme, and (possibly) the kernel.
People found a pit that changes the layout a little bit and they're getting a higher-than-normal percentage of bricks. (I don't know how high, but look at all the odin threads that warn against using the new pit..) It is doable, but not reliable yet. Did you already fill 2 gigs of app storage? Thats .. kinda nuts.
applebook said:
What speed is the other 14Gb? How does it compare to standard microSD? Class 4 at least?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They claim class 6. With rfs, it is ok until you get to multiple requests - then it goes all thrashy instead of threading properly..
If it's around class 6, then I'm satisfied. Since that memory is for storing media, I have little use for anything much faster anyway.
Disconn3ct said:
People found a pit that changes the layout a little bit and they're getting a higher-than-normal percentage of bricks. (I don't know how high, but look at all the odin threads that warn against using the new pit..) It is doable, but not reliable yet. Did you already fill 2 gigs of app storage? Thats .. kinda nuts.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't fill the 2 gigs but I don't use the phone for media really, it's just apps and games and just wandering since it would be nice to have more storage for those things.
So what is the size difference between the Vibrants with the larger NAND and the smaller NAND?
What difference does this make in the real world?
Why would they put two different size NAND chips?
SamsungVibrant said:
Why would they put two different size NAND chips?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung does some weird things sometimes
Disconn3ct said:
"mapped outside the original appspace"? Those words all make sense but not in that order
Data (and cache and so forth) all use samsung's proprietary RFS filesystem. (It has been described as "fat with wear levelling, unix perms and journalling".) The loopback mount fix basically bypasses all that and just shows rfs a large monolithic file. You lose reliability (journal) and flash protection (wear levelling, erase optimization) and so forth, but get speeds much closer to the raw flash. (Personally, I'm a fan of not prematurely destroying soldered on storage..)
One of the things to be tried is yaffs/jffs in place of rfs - all the advantages/protections with much better performance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you saying that samsung's filesystem (rfs) causes wear and tear to the flash drive? Do any of the lag fixes that replace the rfs filesystem (ext 2/3/4) cause wear and tear to the drive as well? I am personally not applying a lag fix for this reason, but if samsung's rfs does that already, might as well take the plunge with a lag fix...
I read somewhere that the nexus one uses a filesystem created for flash drives - it started with a y, probably the yaffs that you spoke of?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
veol said:
So are you saying that samsung's filesystem (rfs) causes wear and tear to the flash drive? Do any of the lag fixes that replace the rfs filesystem (ext 2/3/4) cause wear and tear to the drive as well? I am personally not applying a lag fix for this reason, but if samsung's rfs does that already, might as well take the plunge with a lag fix...
I read somewhere that the nexus one uses a filesystem created for flash drives - it started with a y, probably the yaffs that you spoke of?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took him to mean that a loopback mount style lagfix, like OCLF, can cause premature deterioration.
Kubernetes said:
I took him to mean that a loopback mount style lagfix, like OCLF, can cause premature deterioration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That all depends on how samsung implemented wear leveling. It would be insanely stupid to do it in a way that would cause premature death of the flash with a loop file system though. Wear leveling is generally done at the block level so that file systems that have to write to fixed locations a lot like fat don't kill that block. As rfs is fat, I think it's unlikely that it will cause issues.
We can't use yaffs2 and friends without replacing the kernel driver for the flash. They don't work on block devices, they require raw flash access. I suspect it will also require a new secondary boot loader. I wouldn't attempt it without a dev phone and jtag access.
ttabbal said:
That all depends on how samsung implemented wear leveling. It would be insanely stupid to do it in a way that would cause premature death of the flash with a loop file system though. Wear leveling is generally done at the block level so that file systems that have to write to fixed locations a lot like fat don't kill that block. As rfs is fat, I think it's unlikely that it will cause issues.
We can't use yaffs2 and friends without replacing the kernel driver for the flash. They don't work on block devices, they require raw flash access. I suspect it will also require a new secondary boot loader. I wouldn't attempt it without a dev phone and jtag access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah... sorry for asking a noobish question and being off-topic a little, but if I were to use a lagfix, which one is best (for the flash drive)?
Thanks for the questions and the answers and for laying it out in understandable terms! A good read.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Anyone know good partition settings for the sd card? I've been troubled simply because clockwork doesn't really do it all well. I'm using linux, I love the disk management on linux Thanks for the info!
What do you mean 'good partition settings'? Sizes or more like types of partitions like Linux Swap, ext2,3,4...? With Android there's not much use for anything beyond basic Linux partitions (0x83) like ext2,3,4 and Linux Swap (0x82). Even at that, ext2 is all you really need - maybe ext3 for good measure. This whole deal with ext4 is crazy since our file systems are not even remotely close to being large enough to see a benefit from ext4, only a very tiny slight benefit, almost unnoticeable for the most part. The placebo effect works wonders IMO. Might as well use it though, since it doesn't take anymore time.
As far as swap, we don't need it on this phone really and even with a class 6 card it still slows you down. Use compcache. It should be faster assuming current ROMs retain the fix cyanogen put in back in the G1 days.
thanks
KCRic said:
What do you mean 'good partition settings'? Sizes or more like types of partitions like Linux Swap, ext2,3,4...? With Android there's not much use for anything beyond basic Linux partitions (0x83) like ext2,3,4 and Linux Swap (0x82). Even at that, ext2 is all you really need - maybe ext3 for good measure. This whole deal with ext4 is crazy since our file systems are not even remotely close to being large enough to see a benefit from ext4, only a very tiny slight benefit, almost unnoticeable for the most part. The placebo effect works wonders IMO. Might as well use it though, since it doesn't take anymore time.
As far as swap, we don't need it on this phone really and even with a class 6 card it still slows you down. Use compcache. It should be faster assuming current ROMs retain the fix cyanogen put in back in the G1 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I ended up re flashing clockwork and the partition worked for some reason. On another note, I havent' been able to format my sd card directly from the android storage settings for some reason. This has happened on stock and any CM rom I use. Think I have a bad sd card?
llontop.m said:
Thanks. I ended up re flashing clockwork and the partition worked for some reason. On another note, I havent' been able to format my sd card directly from the android storage settings for some reason. This has happened on stock and any CM rom I use. Think I have a bad sd card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be but I've never had that issue before, nor have I heard of it happening - that's not to say it doesn't. Try to search around on here and see what you come up with. Try the Nexus 1 or G1 forums since you're more likely to find an answer there.
Hello Iconia forum! Seasoned Android user here, loving my new A500
Long story short, one of the main reasons I chose to get this tab over any other is the USB support. Having the ability to use an external hard drive was very important to me, and ended up being the ultimate dealbreaker vs. other tablet offerings. First thing I did when I got the A500 was rooted, flashed CWM, and threw on Taboonay 2.1b and richardtrip's kernel. Everything is great - still getting used to Honeycomb though, as it's a bit different than Android on phones, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. But anyway, one minor issue I'm having is concerning hard drive support. I have 2 external HDD's I wish to use. One has an NTFS filesystem (haven't had a chance to test it yet), but my main one is EXT3. While I'm easily able to mount and browse the drive, the problem I'm having is playing music and videos directly from the drive. They work if I copy them to the tablet first and play from there, but I would prefer to use them from the HDD. Is this even possible? If so, could it be the EXT3 filesystem causing the issue? Or is there some other app I need? I took a look around, but didn't quite find what I'm looking for. I'd like to know before I waste my time changing the filesystem.
TL;DR version - I want to play media directly from my external EXT3 hard drive. Is this possible? If so, how? Or will I need to convert the filesystem?
Thanks in advance! (I'll also click the thanks button when I get a straight answer )
Well I just got around to testing my second drive (NTFS) and it's working the way I want it to. Guess I'll have to convert my other drive. Mods can close this thread now. And in case anyone finds this in the future from a search, apparently EXT3 filesystems aren't fully compatible for external hard drives. Figured a Linux partition would be perfect, but I guess not...
I have had success with the 'USB Drive Launcher' app on the market. It will mount EXT3/4 partitions and set a mount point. I use the 'OTG' version. I have a 500GB 2.5" USB2 drive with EXT4 on it and I mount it and watch movies and read books while I am traveling.
The Acer software probably just doesn't know what to with the volume.
I also use a program on the PC called Ext2FSD which will mount EXT3/4 volumes in Windows.
that might be good to know, but I already changed the filesystem to NTFS and it's working great could have just been my ROM. Nothing was stock Acer. As EXT3, it would mount without problems and I could open most files, just media wouldn't play. But anyway, my issue was solved