Database Users

Tab vs Playbook

Soooo...
Rim have just announced their own tablet device. And the specs are pretty impressive.
7" LCD, 1024 x 600, WSVGA, capacitive touch screen with full multi-touch and gesture support
BlackBerry Tablet OS with support for symmetric multiprocessing
1 GHz dual-core processor
1 GB RAM
Dual HD cameras (3 MP front facing, 5 MP rear facing), supports 1080p HD video recording
Video playback: 1080p HD Video, H.264, MPEG, DivX, WMV
Audio playback: MP3, AAC, WMA
HDMI video output
Wi-Fi - 802.11 a/b/g/n
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
Connectors: microHDMI, microUSB, charging contacts
Open, flexible application platform with support for WebKit/HTML-5, Adobe Flash Player 10.1, Adobe Mobile AIR, Adobe Reader, POSIX, OpenGL, Java
Speculation says that its running the dual core Tegra 2.
Soooo... How does the Tab shape up against the playbook ?
Well...
It would seem that aside from the Playbook having extra oomph in the hardware department, there's not a whole lot to pick. Not news yet on storage options and what not, or how the BB OS will work on a device like this.
Like everything, it'll be a wait and see, but it looks like RIM have really nailed this tablet, and certainly I'd say this puts some pressure on samsung to try and get our attention with some low pricing for the Tab. If it looks like they are going to cost around the same, then... Well it'd be really hard for me to pick the Tab, and as you may have noticed I have been rather in favour of it... And since it would appear that the Playbook will hit Q1 2011, I dunno if I'd be happy with a device that's going to be overtaken that quickly.
As ever, stuff is up in the air. Things could drastically change, but at the moment, I'm feeling a little uncertain. If someone ported android onto the playbook, then there wouldn't even be a choice for me. I'd just be getting one.
What do you guys think ?

some pretty incredible specs. i am still sticking with the Tab though, and here are my reasons:
1. my OS of choice is between Android, WP7, or MeeGo.
2. don't know the battery size or life of the Playbook yet. battery for the Tab is a huge plus to me.
3. Android may not be "optimized" for tablets yet but we do know that it is quite functional at least. the Playbook OS may have a lot of growing pains to go through as far as developers coming out with apps. who really knows?
4. Q1 of 2011 is a long wait for me and i have been waiting a long time already. if i wait that much longer the chances are high that i will be waiting again as news of some of the better tablets will start to flow down the pipeline. next thing you know, 6 months have passed and i could have been enjoying SOMETHING during that time. i think i will just shoot for the Tab and upgrade again in a year or two.
that said, who knows... with the pricing still up in the air on the Tab, i may end up settling for a Streak for now, LOL

unitea said:
that said, who knows... with the pricing still up in the air on the Tab, i may end up settling for a Streak for now, LOL
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Yeah, I really wish Sammy would release some proper pricing details. Despite my raging hard-on for the Tab, im starting to feel like by the time it drops it won't be that unique any more, but will be priced like it is, and that'll disappoint me.
I agree about the choice of OS tho, especially how RIM have been plagued with teething troubles over the past years. I've never had an BB6 device, and I hear its ok, but its still not android, and that definitely makes it less sexy to me.

Ipad fanboys on the Xoom board.

First off, why the heck did you buy a Xoom in the first place, it's kinda like you were asking for trouble and then paying for it, kinda stupid.
You say that the lack of high def video support is your main beef (especially after certain people point out that the vaunted all high powerfull apple didn't have all that many tablet apps on its initial release), but your keep switching the bar for what the problem is. You now say that the problem is no native, "Hardware" support for high def, but apple doesn't have that either, even the vaunted Ipad 2 doesn't seem to come with a hardware decoder for high def, and you apperantly realize that a software decoder is on the way, one way or the other, for the Xoom, so your only beef is it's not here now.
You know what, I'm not normally one of those Linux geeks who likes to show how smart I am and disdains others trying to play with my software, but [email protected] you apple guys are some annoying perfectionist f√cks that I'd rather not have on my team, and not just perfectionist but blind to the faults in your own chosen gods.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Many people like myself picked up an iPad when it was apparent that Android had nothing to compete with it. I bought mine over the summer expecting Android to release something, anything, that could compete with it during the fall, at which time I would sell the ipad and pick up the Android tablet. During that period of waiting, I picked up a Galaxy S phone, specifically the Epic4g. I later found out that Galaxy S phones were nearly identical to the iPad hardware wise. I am continually blown away by how awesome this phone is and its capabilities. I am not an iPad fanboy. I think the hardware is amazing, but iOS is annoying and far too simple. So that is where I am coming from:
The FACT that the Xoom is incapable of playing high profile [email protected] or higher is ridiculous given its specs and who the manufacturer of the SoC is. I'm sorry. The iPad running XBMC and my Galaxy S phone natively can play files that the Xoom cannot, and that is kinda pathetic, as neither of those devices are dual cores and both are running years old GPU tech. Maybe sometime in the future the Xoom will be able to software decode these videos by maxing out both cores of the CPU, but that is both not ideal and unlikely and will destroy battery life compared to hardware decoding which uses the GPU.
And yes, the iPad hardware decodes these videos using XBMC the same way that my phone hardware decodes natively. Natively they limit the capability of the ipad to pimp their iTunes garbage, but the capability was there in the hardware for ingenious people to take advantage of. The iPad had Air Video also, which mitigated much of its unjailbroken shortcomings until XBMC was ported. No such capability exists for the xoom according to the very people who brought the port of XBMC to the iPad.
As for the rest of your post where you go on about "teams" and other nonsense, what are you talking about. People can appreciate both platforms and both devices.
tl;dr: Part of the reason some of us were/are upset at this glaring shortcoming is that we have been waiting forever for an Android tablet to come swoop us off our feet and for months now Nvidia has been pimping its SoC as the bringer of all things HD and graphically sexy. Then we come to find out that oh yea, it only plays this VERY VERY specific kind of HD that no one uses and that is surpassed by last years PHONE technology. Its not the end of the world, but its personally what I use my iPad for most.

I have both so its easy to compare one to the other. With that said, looking forward to Xoom updates to bring feature parity. Hopefully something can be done with the craptastic video playback support.

No offense, but I enjoy snuggling up with my gf in front of my regular LCD TV to watch my movies. Why go through all that trouble of jailbreaking when another update will force you to revert? And why go through all that trouble to play a movie on a tablet when I can I play it back perfectly on my hdpc? I have more than a ½ TB of movies and how many movies are on my tablet....just three. Why? Just to show it off to others. In the end each is their own. But I didn't purchase my tablet to just play movies or music. I purchased it for productivity simply. Not saying ipad can't be that, but I prefer to free myself from iTunes. It's a bastard and no hack or mod will make any apple product work my way.

muyoso said:
Many people like myself picked up an iPad when it was apparent that Android had nothing to compete with it. I bought mine over the summer expecting Android to release something, anything, that could compete with it during the fall, at which time I would sell the ipad and pick up the Android tablet. During that period of waiting, I picked up a Galaxy S phone, specifically the Epic4g. I later found out that Galaxy S phones were nearly identical to the iPad hardware wise. I am continually blown away by how awesome this phone is and its capabilities. I am not an iPad fanboy. I think the hardware is amazing, but iOS is annoying and far too simple. So that is where I am coming from:
The FACT that the Xoom is incapable of playing high profile [email protected] or higher is ridiculous given its specs and who the manufacturer of the SoC is. I'm sorry. The iPad running XBMC and my Galaxy S phone natively can play files that the Xoom cannot, and that is kinda pathetic, as neither of those devices are dual cores and both are running years old GPU tech. Maybe sometime in the future the Xoom will be able to software decode these videos by maxing out both cores of the CPU, but that is both not ideal and unlikely and will destroy battery life compared to hardware decoding which uses the GPU.
And yes, the iPad hardware decodes these videos using XBMC the same way that my phone hardware decodes natively. Natively they limit the capability of the ipad to pimp their iTunes garbage, but the capability was there in the hardware for ingenious people to take advantage of. The iPad had Air Video also, which mitigated much of its unjailbroken shortcomings until XBMC was ported. No such capability exists for the xoom according to the very people who brought the port of XBMC to the iPad.
As for the rest of your post where you go on about "teams" and other nonsense, what are you talking about. People can appreciate both platforms and both devices.
tl;dr: Part of the reason some of us were/are upset at this glaring shortcoming is that we have been waiting forever for an Android tablet to come swoop us off our feet and for months now Nvidia has been pimping its SoC as the bringer of all things HD and graphically sexy. Then we come to find out that oh yea, it only plays this VERY VERY specific kind of HD that no one uses and that is surpassed by last years PHONE technology. Its not the end of the world, but its personally what I use my iPad for most.
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Thank you for being reasonable, even if I was coming off as some what of a d/ck. We actually do not fully know yet if the Xoom's hi def restrictions are totally related to hardware yet, some on the notion ink board have hinted that it is merely a problem with the OS and that the hardware can handle it, this actually makes sense when you think about it, after all nvidia is first and formost a graphics oriented company. So we could see an OS fix and have a hardware native solution.
Whatever the problem might be, the issue I generally have is that the apple fan boys are quick to dismiss the overall capability of the system in favor of a system that is fully developed, you can't compare nor compete with a system that is fully developed to it's ultimate potential with a system that is just beginning to feel itself out into what it can become. You might love the finished product of the Ipad, but at the same time understand that it has limits that the Xoom doesn't.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

If the Adam has a Tegra 2 and can play high quality videos, the XOOM is absolutely capable of it. Right?

I bought an iPad2 tonight to have both

arrtoodeetoo said:
If the Adam has a Tegra 2 and can play high quality videos, the XOOM is absolutely capable of it. Right?
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Yes, exactly, the problem seems to be OS related, so fixable.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

cwizardtx said:
I bought an iPad2 tonight to have both
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That's the best of both worlds. Enjoy!!!

muyoso said:
tl;dr: Part of the reason some of us were/are upset at this glaring shortcoming is that we have been waiting forever for an Android tablet to come swoop us off our feet and for months now Nvidia has been pimping its SoC as the bringer of all things HD and graphically sexy. Then we come to find out that oh yea, it only plays this VERY VERY specific kind of HD that no one uses and that is surpassed by last years PHONE technology. Its not the end of the world, but its personally what I use my iPad for most.
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+1 on that one sir. you have no idea how long i was following the tegra 2 story last year. it is disappointing that there's a ton of codec issues on the xoom. I'm quite sure this is a software, not hardware issue.
However, Google/Motorola needs to be aware of this asap. The louder the noise, the more they will do something about it.

richardjr said:
Yes, exactly, the problem seems to be OS related, so fixable.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Except that the Notion Ink is similarly incapable of high profile [email protected] or higher video playback. Its a Tegra 2 issue.

cwizardtx said:
I bought an iPad2 tonight to have both
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win!
i like apple's hardware just fine (my work machine is a macbook pro, which boot into xp) and i still have a 7 year old 64gb iPod and it still works somehow. what i don't like is apple OSes and walled gardens and devices that i can't do what I want with. i like to feel like i own a device. and i guess i might have to admit i'm a bit of a fanboy. i'm pretty bought in to the whole google ecosystem. I've even got a Cr-48 my xoom is sitting on top of.
but the positive side of this iOS vs Android thing is that we're getting some kickass products from the battle. without the fierce competition (in the wake of Apple changing the smartphone market with the first iPhone) we'd all still be stuck on palm/webOS, blackberry or winbloze mobile.

muyoso said:
Except that the Notion Ink is similarly incapable of high profile [email protected] or higher video playback. Its a Tegra 2 issue.
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OK, well I have asked my brother whom is a programer for Motorola what the actual hardware support is and I have posted on the nvidia developer site to explain what the capabilities are hopefully I will get a reply.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

muyoso said:
Except that the Notion Ink is similarly incapable of high profile [email protected] or higher video playback. Its a Tegra 2 issue.
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Can the Ipad or Ipad 2 support [email protected] or higher video, and I mean native hardware, not software, and is the tegra 2 not capable with a software correction while the Ipad or Ipad 2 is, in other words is one device especially deficient as apposed to the other?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Well... I am for one have switched to the other side - and LOVING IT!
Dont get me wrong - once the Android platform is a little more mature - I will be back! Until then good luck and enjoy waiting for fixes, games, apps and the 2nd generation around the corner.
(You may ask why did I give up my Android - well it was ViewSonic with a TERRIBLE screen. I also found the applications to be very substandard (games, etc.). I am one of those Linux/Java geeks who LOVE recompiling kernels, developing fixes/apps, etc. but for now.. I just wanted something that I would be productive with.
Anyway... I write this for google and other android manufactorers to see... I will be back.. I promise but I will NOT spend $800 on a beta platform ($400 would have taken me)!
I think I chose wisely
READ:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2

I have an ipad, pretty much since day 1. How could you not be a fan? It is a market defining device like the ipod. MS has been talking tablets for 10 years and hasn't been able to pull it off. I don't use mine for movies or music and I still like it. For my uses, the Xoom is a better fit as it has a real file system, sd memory, usb hosting, Motorola seems to have warmed to rooting, etc. but my ipad (which I won't be upgrading) is still an excellent device. Android needs a media manager, hopefully a unified Android platform, to compete with ipad for most people. Maybe that will be Google Music?
Thank you Apple for raising the bar. If it wasn't for the iphone we'd be stuck with WM5.0 or a RIM still doing text only emails. As long as Google and Apple are chasing each other devices and innovation will be better and better and we have choices.

richardjr said:
Can the Ipad or Ipad 2 support [email protected] or higher video, and I mean native hardware, not software, and is the tegra 2 not capable with a software correction while the Ipad or Ipad 2 is, in other words is one device especially deficient as apposed to the other?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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The iPad supports nothing out of the box for obvious reasons. Its a closed ecosystem. The hardware is willing but iOS is unwilling. Installing XBMC however allows my iPad to play up to high profile [email protected] 720p videos before it begins to show signs of stuttering. Everything I have read including a direct quote from the dev behind the XBMC release for iOS who bought a Tegra 2 developer kit to begin the porting to the Tegra 2 platform is that Nvidia's Soc is incapable at a hardware level of high profile video @ L4.1 or higher. That is, with perfect drivers and codecs, that is the maximum it can achieve. The iPad2 will be able to do a lot more than the original iPad most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if it was capable of 1080p high profile @L5.1.

stanglx said:
Well... I am for one have switched to the other side - and LOVING IT!
Dont get me wrong - once the Android platform is a little more mature - I will be back! Until then good luck and enjoy waiting for fixes, games, apps and the 2nd generation around the corner.
(You may ask why did I give up my Android - well it was ViewSonic with a TERRIBLE screen. I also found the applications to be very substandard (games, etc.). I am one of those Linux/Java geeks who LOVE recompiling kernels, developing fixes/apps, etc. but for now.. I just wanted something that I would be productive with.
Anyway... I write this for google and other android manufactorers to see... I will be back.. I promise but I will NOT spend $800 on a beta platform ($400 would have taken me)!
I think I chose wisely
READ:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2
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Click to collapse
SERIOUSLY! I returned my Xoom to Costco on thursday and got my ipad 2 yesterday and I'm extremely glad i did ($400 bucks in my pocket :]). I dont care how "closed" it is, the iPad handles media beautifully. The xoom couldn't even handle the large pdfs i threw at it, zooming and page turning was a stuttering mess (i know its a software issue but still!) while the iPad zips through the pages with such ease. This goes for movies as well, xoom=stutter or forceclose while ipad = smooth. And the apps, wow, they are amazing. Garageband on a tablet is so ridiculously awesome. And now there is a flash player for ipad! The iswifter app for ios played every damn flash video and game i through at it.
While the cameras on the xoom are better, the ipads cameras are plenty sufficient for what most people are going to use them for. Video chat and photbooth lol. For all other stuff i have my Epic 4g which takes beautiful pictures Speaking of epic 4g, i can finally use wireless tether now because the ipad supports BOTH infrastructure and adhoc. I know the Wireless tether 3.0 supports infrastructure but it caused my phone to reboot way too much.
For all you people saying the ipad 2 sucks and what not, please do read the anandtech review of it.
I still do hope xoom does well though. If it doesn't, developers won't move their apps from the appstore to the market place. Hopefully by the time the Galaxy Tab 10.1 comes out, honeycomb will be a little more mature. I Can't wait to see whats in store for android at google io this year (got my student ticket )

Congrats. Go post it on an apple board where someone cares. This is xoom board. it's a xoom dev board even.

Did anyone read the anandtech review of the PowerVR SGX543MP2 that they just posted? Holy testicles, it demolishes the Tegra 2 GPU.

GTab >>>> Ipad

I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?

I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2

I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.

Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
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Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.

Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....

Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
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I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.

Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).

mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
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umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either

ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
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Click to collapse
It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.

smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
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lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).

mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
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Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.

[Q] a500 vs galaxy tab 7 (screen)

I wanna know how is its screen quality comparing to galaxy tab 7?
and what are the disadvantages of not having an unlock bootloader ?
tnx

I can compare a tomato and a steack ?
what the advantage to sit on my sofa ?

Hard to tell. Glaxy tab 7 is a sub par product of a previous generation, doesn't come close to iconia in any way.
On the tabs 10.1 and 8.9 the screen quality is certainly better but you wouldn't notice without the tablets side to side.
The locked bootloader has been hacked so that point is irrelevant. It's purpose is to install custom roms.
The disadvantage of all other tablets over iconia is the lack of a full size USB port. Caring all kinds of proprietary adapters isn't exactly the ideal solution.

tnx
I wanted to buy iconia, but the screen quality made me hesitate
I saw galaxy tab 7's screen before and it was so good
so I'm going to buy Iconia
tnx

Bec07 said:
Hard to tell. Glaxy tab 7 is a sub par product of a previous generation, doesn't come close to iconia in any way.
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Click to collapse
I don't know where you have got that idea from, but it simply isn't true.
First of all, the GTab 7 has a very good IPS display that is better than the Iconia's display. That's not to disparage the Iconia's panel though.
Secondly, the GTab 7 is a far better media player than any of the current crop of Honeycomb tablets due to much broader codec and container support.
Thirdly, given the dearth of Honeycomb optimised applications, the fact that the GTab 7 doesn't have Honeycomb is not the disadvantage that it should be.
The GTab 7 is most definitely not a sub-par product, and in many ways it is still very current - there is no better 7" tablet on the market in my opinion, which is quite impressive given it is nearly a year old.
However, it tends to serve a different purpose than its larger brethren, so can't really be directly compared.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Secondly, the GTab 7 is a far better media player than any of the current crop of Honeycomb tablets due to much broader codec and container support.
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That might be true if this was an iPod where you're stuck with a stock video player, but this becomes a non-factor as soon as you install RockPlayer or MoboPlayer, which plays everything thrown at it. Does anyone really use the stock video player on any Android device? They're all just so limiting that I question why anyone would do that unless they have an iPod mentality and/or just don't know that there are superior 3rd-party video players available for free.
foxmeister said:
Thirdly, given the dearth of Honeycomb optimised applications, the fact that the GTab 7 doesn't have Honeycomb is not the disadvantage that it should be.
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Click to collapse
This will only improve with each passing day. Honeycomb is now the standard OS for tablets, just like Gingerbread is now the standard OS for phones. Anyone who would say that it's better to run an older version of an OS is likely someone who is stuck with a device that cannot upgrade.
They're really not comparable devices. They're a full year apart, significantly different size screens, and a huge OS version difference. With the Galaxy Tab being about the same price as the A500, unless you HAVE to have a smaller tablet or built-in 3G, there's really no reason to choose the Galaxy Tab at this point.
A better comparison would be between the A500 and a newer Galaxy Tab model, which is the comparison I made and the A500 won out (for me) for a variety of reasons, specifically price and feature set.

internetpilot said:
That might be true if this was an iPod where you're stuck with a stock video player, but this becomes a non-factor as soon as you install RockPlayer or MoboPlayer, which plays everything thrown at it.
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Click to collapse
Sorry but no it doesn't - try some high profile 1080p/720p MKVs on *any* Tegra-2 Honeycomb tablet with Moboplayer/Rockplayer and compare the same to the 7" Galaxy Tab.
This will only improve with each passing day. Honeycomb is now the standard OS for tablets, just like Gingerbread is now the standard OS for phones. Anyone who would say that it's better to run an older version of an OS is likely someone who is stuck with a device that cannot upgrade.
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Click to collapse
The problem is that it *isn't* improving with each passing day. Personally, I'd expected Honeycomb optimised applications to explode onto the scene, but frankly it hasn't happened. The majority of apps that I run on either tablet are all pre-Honeycomb. It will change, but it isn't changing as quickly as I'd hoped.
Honeycomb desperately needs more apps, because for the most part we are using upscaled "Phone" apps. This isn't as big an issue as it is/was for the iPad, since a well written Android app will scale properly, but it's not taking advantage of what Honeycomb has to offer.
They're really not comparable devices. They're a full year apart, significantly different size screens, and a huge OS version difference. With the Galaxy Tab being about the same price as the A500, unless you HAVE to have a smaller tablet or built-in 3G, there's really no reason to choose the Galaxy Tab at this point.
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I agree they are not comparable (I even said so myself), but that doesn't make the Galaxy Tab sub-par which is the point of my post. In some ways it is still superior to *any* Honeycomb tablet and that is a fact I'm afraid (mostly due to Tegra-2).
A better comparison would be between the A500 and a newer Galaxy Tab model, which is the comparison I made and the A500 won out (for me) for a variety of reasons, specifically price and feature set.
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Yes, I agree that a better comparison is against the 10.1" Galaxy Tab, but that's not the point of this thread is it?
The OP was asking about the screen of the GTab 7 vs the Iconia, and frankly the GTab 7 does have a better screen than the Iconia!
FWIW - screenwise, it's:
Xoom < Iconia < Transformer < GTab 7 < GTab 10.1
Having said that, I would only consider the Xoom's screen to be actually "bad".
Regards,
Dave

I have both devices! Here is the simple comparison:
Display: Galaxy TAB (better picture quality, better warmer colors)
Codec support: Galaxy TAB (I've thrown everything but the kitchen sink and it plays it) Rock Player/MoboPlayer are good players but software rendering is NOT for 1080p!
But then again, I'm selling my TAB now and keeping the A500!

tnx everyone
now I'm just confused
I want to buy Iconia but the only thing that makes me worry is the screen quality
in comparision vids I saw galaxy tab 10 is far better in this field
but USB 2 on this and dust and moisture under g tab 10 screen makes me choose this
I heard Iconia have a much better screen compare to Xoom
I wanna now those who have Iconia, is it noticable in real life usage? I mean the bad quality

foxmeister said:
Sorry but no it doesn't - try some high profile 1080p/720p MKVs on *any* Tegra-2 Honeycomb tablet with Moboplayer/Rockplayer and compare the same to the 7" Galaxy Tab.
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Why would 1080p be necessary for a 7" screen? I'm finding 720p on my 10" A500 screen to typically be overkill and definitely not worth the file size required. There's a Law of Diminishing Returns here, and I'm pretty sure that 1080p on a 7" screen is just that. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" also likely applies.
I guess that's why I haven't had an playback problems you mention, but I'm a pretty picky videophile when it comes to movies, and I've yet to be disappointed with 720p or less movies on the A500. I suspect I'm enjoying a lot more room on my SD card, too.

internetpilot said:
Why would 1080p be necessary for a 7" screen? I'm finding 720p on my 10" A500 screen to typically be overkill and definitely not worth the file size required. There's a Law of Diminishing Returns here, and I'm pretty sure that 1080p on a 7" screen is just that. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" also likely applies.
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Click to collapse
You misunderstand the point entirely - it's not that 1080p is necessary on a 7" screen, it's that if you have a large movie collection in 1080p, you want to be able to play them on all of your devices without having to re-encode. For some people, re-encoding simply isn't an option.
In the context of this discussion, it's only relevance is that an earlier poster said that the GTab 7" is a sub-par product that doesn't close to the Iconia in any way, which isn't true.
Regards,
Dave

Sub-par and that it belongs to a previous generation.
Single-core CPUs don't belong in tablet space and Froyo or Gingerbread don't belong on tablets.
I've had the 7" for a while and I have an SGS, I know what I'm talking about.
While smaller screens will always look better and sharper, the processing power, the speed, the memory, the GPU are outdated.
The user experience and build quality don't come even close to Iconia and the 7" screen size is irrelevant.
I do, from all my heart, believe it's a sub-par and useless product and while getting it this time last year might not have been one's most inspired idea, getting one now is the worst idea or recommendation one could make.

Bec07 said:
I've had the 7" for a while and I have an SGS, I know what I'm talking about.
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Well, if we're going to play the "who's is bigger game".....
I've had Android phones since the T-Mo G1, followed by an Hero, 2 HTC Desire's, a Desire HD, and an HTC Sensation. I've had a cheapo KIRF tablet (which definitely was sub-par crap), a Toshiba AC-100, a Kogan Agora Internet TV Portal, a GTab 7" and a Honeycomb tablet, so I guess that I must know what I'm talking about too??
Interesting to note that whilst you have posted on the SGS forums, you've never posted on the GTab 7s. Perhaps you've not been keeping abreast with the development on the GTab 7, and thus can only really comment on the stock experience, but it is vastly improved with a Gingerbread ROM and a few tweaks here and there - which is something it shares in common with pretty much all Android devices.
The user experience and build quality don't come even close to Iconia and the 7" screen size is irrelevant.
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The build quality of the GTab 7" is very good indeed - at least as good as the Iconia's IMO, and it *does* have a superior screen. Also, to say that a 7" screen size is irrelevant is pure nonsense - portability is crucial for some people. Irrelevant to you perhaps, but that isn't the same thing!
I do, from all my heart, believe it's a sub-par and useless product and while getting it this time last year might not have been one's most inspired idea, getting one now is the worst idea or recommendation one could make.
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Given that there are hardly any Honeycomb applications, the GTab 7 runs practically all the same applications so if it is useless, surely all the HC tablets too? The GTab 7 can also run the so-called "Tegra-2" only apps like GOF2 very well indeed with CF3D, so clearly the GPU and processor are still very much up to scratch for the applications that are currently available!
There are plenty of reasons why the GTab 7 is still a good tablet - it's not a direct competitor to the 10.1 HC tablets though because it serves a different set of requirements.
All this is not to say that your opinion isn't any less (or more!) valid than mine, but that is all they are - opinions! I've merely presented a couple of areas where the GTab 7" is verifiably superior than the current crop of Honeycomb tablets.
Regards,
Dave

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are to easy to please You've seen android so early that the current versions look awesome no matter what.
I only know how much it changed from 2.1 to 2.2 and the difference was huge!
As for GOF2 it was one of my assessment points. It's damn heavy on that cpu, it heats it up a lot, it drains the battery fast and has long loading times.
On tegra 2, it barely gets warm-ish and runs like a dream. I wouldn't want to catch 2012 single-cored.
As for honeycombs apps, only one so far didn't scale right for me, some startup app remover that kept staying in 800x480 but since it's more of an utility, doesn't bother me that much.
I don't like the 7" size because it's too small for documents. Before I tried out the tab 7" I was obsessed with a viliv x70 (win 7) and the dream of full office in the palm of my hand.
Now with Iconia I think 10 is a minimum, and this with dedicated apps.

Bec07 said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are to easy to please You've seen android so early that the current versions look awesome no matter what.
I only know how much it changed from 2.1 to 2.2 and the difference was huge!
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Click to collapse
You should've seen 1.6 (Donut) to 2.1 (Eclair) - makes the jump from 2.1 to 2.2 look quite small!
I don't like the 7" size because it's too small for documents. Before I tried out the tab 7" I was obsessed with a viliv x70 (win 7) and the dream of full office in the palm of my hand.
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It's a case of horses for courses - I want a 7" tablet for when I travel for work (which is quite frequently these days) because it can comfortably fit in a jacket pocket, which means I can take it out and about without having to carry a bag.
For home use, a larger tablet is likely to be the better choice, which is why I have both!
Now with Iconia I think 10 is a minimum, and this with dedicated apps.
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I'd possibly be tempted by the Galaxy Tab 8.9 as a single device, but I think it's probably too large to be pocketed, and not that much smaller than a 10.1" tablet to make a different.
I was hoping to buy Iconia A100, but that seems to have dropped off Acer's radar, and there are alternatives (e.g the Huawei MediaPad, Viewsonic ViewPad 7x, and Asus Eee Pad Memo) that might come to the market first.
Regards,
Dave

Manufacturers abandoning Tegra ship?

Both of the upcoming Galaxy tablets won't be running a Tegra chipset. Toshiba's AT200 won't be either. And this is after Tegra3 has been announced, shown off. Wonder if this is a good thing.

It is. I for one don't want Android to become a mono-chipset OS. Imagine the PC market without AMD pushing Intel, or AMD pushing Nvidia, or Audi pushing BMW, etc.
Not to mention, reviewers and buyers are starting to yawn at "another Tegra-powered slate".

Itaintrite said:
Both of the upcoming Galaxy tablets won't be running a Tegra chipset. Toshiba's AT200 won't be either. And this is after Tegra3 has been announced, shown off. Wonder if this is a good thing.
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Croak said:
It is. I for one don't want Android to become a mono-chipset OS. Imagine the PC market without AMD pushing Intel, or AMD pushing Nvidia, or Audi pushing BMW, etc.
Not to mention, reviewers and buyers are starting to yawn at "another Tegra-powered slate".
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I totally agree that this is a good thing. Maybe we might even see Tegra 3 sooner.

I must admit, I really don't care much for gaming on tablets. So as long as whatever they put into the upcoming tablets can handle all my videos (without transcoding), I'll be one happy man

Gaming on tablets is even more stupid than gaming on laptops. I wish they would use more die area for the CPU and video accelerator instead of adhearing to stupid kids that play video games.

Itaintrite said:
Both of the upcoming Galaxy tablets won't be running a Tegra chipset. Toshiba's AT200 won't be either. And this is after Tegra3 has been announced, shown off. Wonder if this is a good thing.
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This is definitely a good thing. I was getting tired of tegra optimized apps that wouldn't work on other devices without chainfire plugin.
There is a standard created and i think every manufacturer should follow them