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Thoughts on what might have to be stripped from ICS?

Alright everyone, time for the important question that no one wants to ask.
Since we have devs already working on ICS, we all know our hardware is a little bit dated which means it's likely we will have to remove some of the cooler features in the roms so, what do you think we might have to sacrifice to get a taste of that nice green-blue goodness?

ICS will run fine on our phone. AOSP does not take the latest hardware to run. It just has to be optimized to run on our phones. Google says our phones are to old cause they do not want to take the time to make it work on older phones.

Manufacturer bloat will have to be stripped or slimmed out an ICS/sense port will either lag horribly or sense will have to be seriously stripped or be ported back to an older less resource hungry version like 1.0/2.1 as all new ICS/sense roms will have 3.5+ which is already laggy on our hardware with out heavy mods. So don't expect to be running a full blown Ics/sense 3.5 port from a newer phone like the edge or radar. If and this is a BIG IF we are graced with one last official update on the OG don't expect sense to be upgraded they didn't upgrade it for gb, and if it does get a sense upgrade it won't be above 2.1 and it may have some of the major features removed or slimmed, such as the social integration may be downgraded and not have as many features available as it does now. Think of it like a race car if its big and heavy like a muscle car its gotta have a lot of HP to go fast if its small and heavy its gotta be stripped of all non essentials to go fast like taking all the seats but the drivers seat out and replacing as much metal with plastics and composites as possible.
Sent from my -EViLizED-EVO-

dabbill said:
ICS will run fine on our phone. AOSP does not take the latest hardware to run. It just has to be optimized to run on our phones. Google says our phones are to old cause they do not want to take the time to make it work on older phones.
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I still have my G1 (wife is using it), and I use an EVO 4G. Any chance ICS will run on the G1?

dabbill said:
ICS will run fine on our phone. AOSP does not take the latest hardware to run. It just has to be optimized to run on our phones. Google says our phones are to old cause they do not want to take the time to make it work on older phones.
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from what i understand, ICS heavily utilizes the GPU in regards to rendering images/3D, and our GPU is going to bottleneck ICS to the point where it is laggy. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

I loaded the SDK dumb ICS rom on the evo4g going through the menus and swiping the screens ran just fine. So i would have to say once all the drivers get loaded and the rom tweaked it will be the same as running GB.

dabbill said:
ICS will run fine on our phone. AOSP does not take the latest hardware to run. It just has to be optimized to run on our phones. Google says our phones are to old cause they do not want to take the time to make it work on older phones.
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Google has nothing to do with releasing OS updates for our phones. That is 100% up the the phone manufacturers, so don't blame google.

-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
Manufacturer bloat will have to be stripped or slimmed out an ICS/sense port will either lag horribly or sense will have to be seriously stripped or be ported back to an older less resource hungry version like 1.0/2.1 as all new ICS/sense roms will have 3.5+ which is already laggy on our hardware with out heavy mods. So don't expect to be running a full blown Ics/sense 3.5 port from a newer phone like the edge or radar. If and this is a BIG IF we are graced with one last official update on the OG don't expect sense to be upgraded they didn't upgrade it for gb, and if it does get a sense upgrade it won't be above 2.1 and it may have some of the major features removed or slimmed, such as the social integration may be downgraded and not have as many features available as it does now. Think of it like a race car if its big and heavy like a muscle car its gotta have a lot of HP to go fast if its small and heavy its gotta be stripped of all non essentials to go fast like taking all the seats but the drivers seat out and replacing as much metal with plastics and composites as possible.
Sent from my -EViLizED-EVO-
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The evo design is only a single core running 1.2, I would say there's a fair chance we can get a pretty good sense port from it.

nothing will need to be stripped. ASOP roms are tiny compared to Sense. Google already said that if your phone can run GB, It can run ICS. The only reason we won't get a official update is because HTC has moved on to newer phones and supporting us makes no money.

cnstarz said:
from what i understand, ICS heavily utilizes the GPU in regards to rendering images/3D, and our GPU is going to bottleneck ICS to the point where it is laggy. someone correct me if i'm wrong.
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Here to happily correct you.
Actually, rather than ICS "heavily utilizing the GPU to bottleneck the EVO", it's the reverse. Android 1.0 - 2.3.7 all currently use software acceleration. This means the CPU has to pull double duty: It has to run the OS in the background, and render everything you see in the OS.
(Games and other applications, of course, use the GPU if designed to do so.)
The departure now is that ICS uses the GPU to leverage all of the UI, taking that strain off of the GPU. The result should actually be that the EVO runs better than ever, with a slicker, smoother UI to result, and better performance from the OS in general.
Also, all of that business about having to strip-out components for the EVO is nonsense. The EVO has a 1GB ROM; it has more than enough room for ICS in it's entirety, and all the horsepower necessary to make it run really well.

It seems like in theory the og evolution should get a little better battery life too since the workload will be split instead of all dependant on the CPU. The clockspeeds should have less full throttle time than previous versions right?
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

dills2214 said:
Google has nothing to do with releasing OS updates for our phones. That is 100% up the the phone manufacturers, so don't blame google.
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I wasnt blaming google. I just ment google is not going to take the time and optimize AOSP for every phone out there. Its up to phone manufacture and other devs to do that.

dills2214 said:
Google has nothing to do with releasing OS updates for our phones. That is 100% up the the phone manufacturers, so don't blame google.
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Not true for Nexus devices, and I think dabbill was referring to their statement about the Nexus One being too old for an ICS update.
If Wikipedia is accurate, the N1 only has 512MB of storage, while the Evo has 1GB of storage. On the Evo at least that 1GB is split between system, data, and cache partitions. If the N1's 512MB number is accurate and similarly is a total amount for all three partitions, than their statement would make sense for the N1. Our 1GB total should be enough. CM7 only uses 40% of the system partition on the Evo.

Does touchwiz 4 have hardware acceleration?

Is the interface and browser smooth like the ipad? I ask because i tried out a couple of stock android tabs like the sony s and xoom at a store and their scrolling and zooming was quite laggy compared to the ipad, same goes for the browser.

The whole issue about the unsmooth scrolling is much better on 3.2 ROMs, like for example Task650 GalaxyTask ROM.
It isn't entirely gone, but I hope this will come with Ice Cream Sandwich/Android 4.0.
Edit:
And to answer your questions: Yes, apart from occasional stuttering, it is as smooth as the iPad. Custom ROM/TouchScreenTune App do the trick for me.

Most of the apps in the system support H.W acceleration (browser , etc ) but the UI itself doesn't support it (it will come in ICS ) like the main launcher and the rotation and translations in the system that is why it shutters allot when using live wallpapers that is because the load is n the processor it self not on the gpu but ICS should fix all this issues, as i noticed even alpha builds are smoother than honeycomb

Android will always have more "stuttering" than the ipad. It's pretty simple to imagine why: on an ipad, all there is is a bunch of little standard sized icons. They don't display information, they don't change, they don't move or supply anything more than a link to open your app. They're just little cached images and so the whole interface moves smoothly because there's nothing to see, no work for the processor. Also, the screen is low resolution (1024x768), so there's less pixels to move around.
Android on the other hand has widgets that change and display information. They are not standardized and are often resizable. The whole interface is far more complex than the ipad. And the screen is higher resolution (1200x800) so there's more pixels.
So, sure, if "smooth scrolling of the homescreen" is your top priority, I'd say go with an ipad. It will always be simple and smooth. Emphasis on the simple.
If, on the other hand, you want customizability and information without having to open your apps, and a little jerkiness in the homescreen is OK with you, get an android tab.
Last bit: android allows you to install a different launcher (that's part of what I mean by "customizability"). ADW EX is very smooth...

Many of the roms on this forum can give you HW acceleration.

All i want is a silky smooth browser like the ipad/iphone. Tried android 2.2, 2.3,3.0,3,1,3.2, sense 3.0, sense 3.5, wp7, wp 7.5 NONE I REPEAT NONE can come close to the consistent smoothness of the safari browser. Is there a browser in the android market that can come close, cause i tried opera and its still not as smooth. Hope ICS will make it so.

Safari for ipad /iphone doesn't have flash so for sure it will be smoother , try opera mini it doesn't have flash so it shuld be faster

I've found that hardware acceleration is much smoother without TW. I'm running AOSP 3.2.2 (Overcome ROM) and have not noticed any lag and even noticed scrolling in say, Music, to not jump at all. Smoother than the iPad for sure.

I'm also verry happy with the Launcher in Overcome

Fasty12 said:
All i want is a silky smooth browser like the ipad/iphone. Tried android 2.2, 2.3,3.0,3,1,3.2, sense 3.0, sense 3.5, wp7, wp 7.5 NONE I REPEAT NONE can come close to the consistent smoothness of the safari browser. Is there a browser in the android market that can come close, cause i tried opera and its still not as smooth. Hope ICS will make it so.
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I use dolphin HD with flash loading on demand. It is the best browser I've used on any device so far.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda premium

otaku1984 said:
I've found that hardware acceleration is much smoother without TW. I'm running AOSP 3.2.2 (Overcome ROM) and have not noticed any lag and even noticed scrolling in say, Music, to not jump at all. Smoother than the iPad for sure.
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My experience is exactly the opposite. Touchwiz is so smooth and fluid in ways that regular honeycomb can't touch. The typind lag in the browser in stock honeycomb was enough to ruin the whole experience.
The only overcome rom I see is a touchwiz rom, where is this aosp overcome rom? I'll check it out on the off chance it is better than stock android.

otaku1984 said:
I've found that hardware acceleration is much smoother without TW. I'm running AOSP 3.2.2 (Overcome ROM) and have not noticed any lag and even noticed scrolling in say, Music, to not jump at all. Smoother than the iPad for sure.
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Where did you get Overcome AOSP ROM and that too 3.2.2
It is still TW. Right?

Will ICS eliminate all the lag with android?

Will it be smooth like the ipad, when ics comes? Ive tried the overcome rom and there is still a bit a jerkiness/lagginess when using the screen capture function, exiting in and out, flipping through pages etc.

No. Get an ipad if smooth scrolling homescreens are the most important feature on a tablet for you.

3.2 will give you that smoothness. i use adw launcher ex and it pretty much fixed any lag. also recommend using spareparts+ to speed up opening window.
doesnt hurt to oc either
if you're not going to contribute then you can just keep ur post to yourself slack04

Everything you're asking can only be answered with speculation and dreams dude. I'm on 3.2 and don't see any of the lag you speak of.

Yes, ICS will bring hardware acceleration to the entire experience, should be a transformation.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Answering the op question what lag? Sure if you have a slow device running top of the range os you will get lag
But since 3.2 I haven't seen any lag
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk

I think lag can be caused by many issues. For one, widgets with heavy graphics and constant refreshes can use up a lot of resources. There are also poorly made apps running in the background that may slow things down. I would just keep the homescreen as simple as possible if performance is a concern.

If ICS runs as smooth as it does on the Galaxy Nexus, yes, it will.
We will see it as soon as the first "complete" ROMs pop up, everything else is complete speculation.
3.2 made the tab a lot better, but still not completely lagfree in my opionion. Its response time varies from perfect (browser) to mediocre (app switcher - at least until its open).

Are you running on stock rom? I am running Task650 & Phantoms "In Paris" V5 OC'd to 1.4Gz with ADW launcher and it is pretty darn smooth even on Honeycomb 3.1. It will only get better with the 3.2 update coming in the near future. Check it out if you haven't already done so!

hardware acceleration in ICS improve performence allot , see alpha builds on the single core original galaxy tab 7 and HTC hd2 on youtube and you will see the big improvement in speed even with live wallpapers

Though it is true that ICS will have hardware acceleration, android will always lag at some point, seeing as it is an OS capable of being installed on a wide range of devices, and it can not be fully optimized for 1 device to make it lag-free.

derwinaero said:
Though it is true that ICS will have hardware acceleration, android will always lag at some point, seeing as it is an OS capable of being installed on a wide range of devices, and it can not be fully optimized for 1 device to make it lag-free.
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this is not 100% true , the kernel function is to make the hardware make use of the options in the software ,so that is why each device has its own kernel , thus with good kernel each device can benifit from the hardware acceleration on its way , so existance of (hardware acceleration ) with supported kernel should eliminate lag

Im using the overcome rom, isnt that the best if i want the smoothest experience possible?

hoss_n2 said:
this is not 100% true , the kernel function is to make the hardware make use of the options in the software ,so that is why each device has its own kernel , thus with good kernel each device can benifit from the hardware acceleration on its way , so existance of (hardware acceleration ) with supported kernel should eliminate lag
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But many companies don't bother with a good kernel. They pretty much use "Does it boot? Get it out the door" as a mantra.
The reason iOS is so smooth is because Apple tests devices for months and months to make sure the user experience is great. They put user experience over anything else, even features. I still get terrible lag on 3.2 while using my GT8.9. But hopefully ICS will fix that. But I won't bet money that all the lag will be gone. There's just not much optimization there, and throwing more cores at the software isn't going to fix that.

task650 said:
Everything you're asking can only be answered with speculation and dreams dude. I'm on 3.2 and don't see any of the lag you speak of.
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Same here, because of your ROM! OP, get on Task's ROM. And have a funeral for your tablet lag.

task650 said:
Everything you're asking can only be answered with speculation and dreams dude. I'm on 3.2 and don't see any of the lag you speak of.
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^^What he said...
Running GalaxyTask6.3 rom oc'd to 1.4ghz using adw ex launcher with boosted ics theme and it is SMOOTH as any apple device on the planet!
Sent from my GT10.1 (GalaxyTask) via Tapatalk

Fasty12 said:
Im using the overcome rom, isnt that the best if i want the smoothest experience possible?
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Nope task650 v6.3 is the way to go
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

3.2 was a nice upgrade in speed but after using ICS on my galaxy nexus I really can't wait for it to come to the tab 10.1 in one form or another.

The Galaxy Nexus does feel much smoother. Not sure if it's the hardware acceleration or just tighter code, but I'm eager to get ICS on my tab.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

i'm getting lag when flipping page's & application's as well .

realistic expectations of ICS

hey everyone. man been hearing so much about ICS.. dont know what to believe anymore.
"Hardware Acceleration Everywhere!!!"
but really what does this mean? we already have hardware acceleration in our browser, do we have it anywhere else? well as far as i know we dont. and just because ICS has this new (vague) hardware acceleration, where will we see it? and it doesnt mean our angry birds, or 3rd party browsers will suddenly improve (does it?).
"zero lag shutter" - does this apply only to stock rom, or will our samsung camera see this too?
while hardware acceleration sounds like something awesome i know nothing about.. another big point in battery life. what changes will ICS bring to battery life?
i know one of the features of ICS is face unlock, are there any other cool features like these that have gotten less coverage?

If using the GPU to do something is faster than using the CPU, then yes, probably, battery life will be better. Generally the quicker you do something (while using the same or lesser power), the better, since the SoC can deep sleep ASAP.

Yes, battery life can be improved, if it does in fact speed up the mobile even further, my device only runs out of 3% over 10 hours in standby, would like the battery to improve even when turned on though, would like to see more input on HW Acceleration though

darkgoon3r96 said:
Yes, battery life can be improved, if it does in fact speed up the mobile even further, my device only runs out of 3% over 10 hours in standby, would like the battery to improve even when turned on though, would like to see more input on HW Acceleration though
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3% in 10 [email protected]#>$ i lose 20% in 10 hours.. teach me your ways...

with ICS we can finally have HW acceleration on AOSP roms too.

Limpperi said:
with ICS we can finally have HW acceleration on AOSP roms too.
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what is an AOSP rom?

Guantanamo86 said:
what is an AOSP rom?
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Android Open Source Project. Basically, a clean, un-modified version of Android - straight from Google.

Logi_Ca1 said:
If using the GPU to do something is faster than using the CPU, then yes, probably, battery life will be better. Generally the quicker you do something (while using the same or lesser power), the better, since the SoC can deep sleep ASAP.
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you should read this:
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s

GB has hardware acceleration capabilities already - this is not new for ICS. The only difference is that in GB developers would have to specify to use it, whereas apps use it by default in ICS.

codeworkx said:
you should read this:
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
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Thanks for the enlightenment. It's always nice when the developers enlighten noobs like me (no sarcasm intended!)

ive seen the camera app in stock ICS.. dang its pretty sick.. it seems to be more featured than ours, the contrast even goes from -3 ~ +3, unlike ours which is 2/2. but i wonder, are there parental controls placed on the stock camera app like the samsung? like parental controls on battery threshold, and when the camera can and cant be used, how it wont work during music being played, or during a call?
im thinking of going to cm9 if it means getting this camera. can anyone tell me about those features?

I have also wondered what all the hoopteedoo for ics is for. If someone could please convince me that it is the biggest update ever, that would be great. (I don't want to hear anything about the UI or how pretty something is, I really could care less)

With ICS the biggest edtion to our galaxy devices is true multi thread operating system. Gingerbread never supported dual core phones. With ice cream sandwich we will see the true performance of our phones.
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One more thing if you don't have multi threaded phone then there really is no difference.
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Isnt the zero shutter lag dependent on the hardware of the camera?? I.e. if the camera doesnt have the capability we wont get it?
Ricey

Yep, if the hw does not support it, will have minimal improvement.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

The Wicker King said:
With ICS the biggest edtion to our galaxy devices is true multi thread operating system. Gingerbread never supported dual core phones. With ice cream sandwich we will see the true performance of our phones.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
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sorry, but there's no increase for "smooth as butter"
gingerbread = smooth as butter
ics = smooth as butter
your second core is sleeping the most time because there's nothing to do. ;-)

Limpperi said:
with ICS we can finally have HW acceleration on AOSP roms too.
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Click to collapse
I'd guess for most on here, this will be the major benefit.
I *think* the browser is already HW accelerated as is the TWLauncher, so I'm guessing if you compared AOSP ICS with any TW ROM the performance will be fairly similar in most areas.
For me, I'm looking forward to trying an AOSP version of ICS, as for me, it is the first AOSP version of Android I've actually liked the look of, I've never really been a fan of older iterations. Gingerbread was an improvement but still not there yet; I actually prefer TW over AOSP gingerbread, but ICS definitely moves the game on.
The improved notifications and task switching is also something I'm looking forward.
However, I'm happy to wait, as my phone with CheckROM Revolution and Verts ICS Domination theme and the ICS keyboard from the market makes the phone pretty damn nice to use already IMHO.

From what i understand though, what do we need this hw for? Our browser already has it, and that seems to be the most intensive of tasks we can do aside from games. What a launcher? It's already smooth enough to me. What the opening speed for menus. Wait lemme check how much fps lagg I get from opening a menu, oh wait can't see. Please, anything else other than hw? I still don't see the importance of ICS. And please i am not bashing it or anything, but i genuinely want to feel excited for this update.

Kailkti said:
From what i understand though, what do we need this hw for? Our browser already has it, and that seems to be the most intensive of tasks we can do aside from games. What a launcher? It's already smooth enough to me. What the opening speed for menus. Wait lemme check how much fps lagg I get from opening a menu, oh wait can't see. Please, anything else other than hw? I still don't see the importance of ICS. And please i am not bashing it or anything, but i genuinely want to feel excited for this update.
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Well if you don't see any point to it, then don't update your bloody phone.
Stop crying about something you feel is useless and just don't update. You don't have to, and no one will care if you don't. Stick with gingerbread and stop complaining.

Solution to a lagless device

I know I should have posted this in the q&a but maybe we could have a discussion on the matter.
So as we know, this phone is one of the lagless devices I've ever had and I've had quite a handful of phones recently so I wanted to know your opinions on what do you thunk may be the reason. I know HTC dedicated about a fourth of the ram to hardware and I think that helps a lot. Do you think it's that or just plain old optimization?
From the way I see it, I think it's a big help from the hardware ram but lots of credits due to optimization. What do you think, why do you think so, and what are your views on hardware marrying software?

It's down to both hardware and software optimization, looks like HTC's Sense 5 has been built from the ground up to work with the new processors and Android JellyBean. They've done a great job stripping down the unnecessary bloatware and complicated options. They have refined the software to a point that everything just snaps.
For the first time since Sense first got released, I actually prefer this to stock Android. Love Sense 5
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

I agreed. It's butter. Had a gs4 for almost 2 weeks can't never compare to the smoothness of the HTC one.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

did not notice any lag on InsertCoin 3.0

HTC have done a solid job on Sense 5 but I also think it's down to not including a bunch of useless software (like on the S4) and sticking with the tried and tested 4.1.2. I hope 4.2.2 and above are just as non lagging and stable. I can't believe how stable this device is.
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

It's not so much about this or that, but it's just that Samsung for whatever reason has not fully implemented Project Butter, the biggest feature for many for 4.1 The S3 didn't have as much bloatware as the S4, but when the One X and S3 got updated to JB, the difference was night and day on the One X, while it MOSTLY stayed the same on the S3.

true story, project butter fully implemented even on the One X JB
equally HTC is known to use higher speed internal storage mmc
and of course the whole Sense 5 light thing and being optimized specifically for the s600 (unlike the s4 exynos and s600 duality)
lets just say its a very clean job
regarding 4.2.2, it's even smoother after the OTA especially the app drawer

Dont know if anythings wrong or the reason that im using the power save mode all the time.......my phone lags a bit at times, any other conclusion anyone??

hamdir said:
and of course the whole Sense 5 light thing and being optimized specifically for the s600 (unlike the s4 exynos and s600 duality)
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My last samsung was the sgs2, which could be perceived as laggy but in reality wasn't, some of the perceived lagginess was caused by design decisions (eg home botton lag, which was so multiclick combos can be done).
Try another (generic, not specically optimized launcher) launcher on a Galaxy phone and see it not lag at all....

phsetaknev said:
Dont know if anythings wrong or the reason that im using the power save mode all the time.......my phone lags a bit at times, any other conclusion anyone??
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Itd *could* be powersaver if your cpu limit is set. It will limit the cpu speed between 384-1134mhz when its on. 384-1727mhz when its off. Also, if you have alot of apps running in the background using *cpu* that *could* be it too....
AT&T HTC One
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