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Everytime I read mobile.engadget or any gadget site for that matter, I see posts "dogging" the Android operating system about how they are fragmented and certain apps/games won't work for older OS's/devices. Our EVOs have been out for almost 6 months now and this phone is still rock solid IMO but I wonder how fragmented (if at all) this OS is and what that means for this phone and future android devices. I'm literally asking cause I have no idea. And also what the heck is fragmented actually mean, cause all I get out of this is that the older Android devices just can't run the app or game because of the older/slower specs not necessarily because of the OS.
It would help if you posted the link. When you say fragmented, I would guess that this means that Android Users are divided between those that can run an application on said device and those that can't.
This is not any different that using M$ OS's as well. Not all applications will run on older Operating Systems. This is partly due to Hardware upgrades and partly due to marketing. If all software were reverse compatible then people would be less likely to upgrade their devices. Also the list of Drivers would get longer and longer as the Android Developers add phones to their database.
Apple only has what, 4 phones and 2 or 3 Ipod Touch's? And realistically most of the people that own these would have the 3rd or 4th Gen. Phone anyways. I think the "fragmentation" problem will exist on no matter what platform OS you are using, its just that Android is on sooooo many devices now ranging from Phones/TV and now its going into cars. It wouldn't surprise me to see it on X-box since they like to run Linux code.
So yeah.... Long story short its due to all of the different devices and the fact that no one keeps electronics for any length of time but IMHO Android will start to get a lot more life out of their electronics since the software is upgradeable like on a PC.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. We saw the same thing in the computer desktop arena. At one point you had Windows 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, Win95, WinNT, and Win98 all running around at the same time. Going back even further all the different flavors of DOS. The PC industry survived so will Android. Eventually you will have to upgrade so fragmentation is pretty much a moot point. IMHO
My guess would be because there are phones running multiple versions of the OS such as 1.6/2.1/2.2. Some apps such as task killers will work on 1.6 and 2.1 but not 2.2+. Game compatibility seems more reliant on what that particular phone is capable of. Our phones can handle just about any game available whereas a G1 or MT3G is far more limited.
Sent from my HTC SUPERSONIC
Fragmentation refers to the fact that there are so many different versions of android the app developers have to code for. With the Iphone for example most everyone is at version 4.1 or 4.2. Android devices are being released with 1.5, 1.6, 2.1, 2.2 and soon 2.3. It makes it extremely hard to code and optimize apps across all versions. I foresee this has having no negative effects on our beloved EVO's for though.
People like to point out the fact that there are multiple android devices, and not all of them are on the newest os (like some of the sgs phones not having froyo, or the moment, or hero for example). unlike the iphone, where there is only one device of each generation, and when the update is released, everyone can get it.
My take on this is I like variety, just because I like my Evo doesn't mean it suits everyone. Just like there are a ton of people that consider a hardware keyboard a must have, yet I would rather not have one. Having to wait for HTC and Sprint to release the newest version to my phone, or wait for one of the amazing developers contributing their hard work and skill to port it for use is just fine with me. Would it be nice to get it the moment google pushes it out, probably, however I can almost bet that the Nexus line will always get first crack anyway. This is just my two cents, I hope the explanation helps.
Sent from my HTC SuperSonic 4G using the XDA app.
Brutal-Force said:
It would help if you posted the link. When you say fragmented, I would guess that this means that Android Users are divided between those that can run an application on said device and those that can't.
This is not any different that using M$ OS's as well. Not all applications will run on older Operating Systems. This is partly due to Hardware upgrades and partly due to marketing. If all software were reverse compatible then people would be less likely to upgrade their devices. Also the list of Drivers would get longer and longer as the Android Developers add phones to their database.
Apple only has what, 4 phones and 2 or 3 Ipod Touch's? And realistically most of the people that own these would have the 3rd or 4th Gen. Phone anyways. I think the "fragmentation" problem will exist on no matter what platform OS you are using, its just that Android is on sooooo many devices now ranging from Phones/TV and now its going into cars. It wouldn't surprise me to see it on X-box since they like to run Linux code.
So yeah.... Long story short its due to all of the different devices and the fact that no one keeps electronics for any length of time but IMHO Android will start to get a lot more life out of their electronics since the software is upgradeable like on a PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
My two cents:
I think the "fragmentation" issue is primarily software related and is the fault of the manufacturers and service providers. That said, I think the most important issue is whether the fragmentation discourages developers from creating apps for Android.
As hardware and software advances there will always be features that will work on some phones and not work on others. This occurs with the iPhone too and is no surprise, however, Apple still rolls out new OS's to all phones so that the vast majority of users are on the same platform.
While Google has been releasing two versions of Android per year, it is the manufacturers and service providers who decide whether or not to roll out the updates and that seems to be a crapshoot. Since the manufacturers are not just tolling out vanilla Android, instead choosing to overlay their own UI on top (e.g. Touchwiz or Sense UI), this would require effort on their part to rework their UI to keep up with Android updates. And, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't... So, even though you have hardware in circulation perfectly capable of running newer versions of Android they don't because the manufacturers don't allow it.
I think most people would agree the number of quality apps in the iTunes store far exceeds the number of quality apps in the Android Market. However, Android has been outselling the iPhone for almost a year now. The question is: Is it the "fragmentation" keeping developers from porting their apps to Android? Or, is it something else? If it IS the fragmentation then I AM worried. I think 2011 is an important year for Android and I remain optimistic the Apps will come. It'll be interesting if they don't...
To Be Continued...
the evil fragmentation comes from low-end android phones also some developers not properly coding
Beejis said:
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
simple to answer i think, here's the thing, not every phone is going to be the same, just like not every carrier is the same, what i mean is that each manufacturer is going to have their own set of hardware and specs to follow, thus giving them an option to best choose the Android version that best suits the phone they are building.
Engadget is a huge iEverything fan, so they will help bash android and google just as much as Mr. duschbag, sorry i meant Job's, but you get the point, after all it was Jobs that first coined the whole android is fragmented war, however someone correct me if i'm wrong.
Besides if manufacturer were to listen to android about having a set standard then we might as well also be referred to as Apple, but since we're not under the dictatorship of Stevie, we don't have to worry about that.
Android fragmentation deals with both software and hardware.
Software-wise you have different phones having different Android versions -- OEMs seem to only support their phones for a year, sometimes even less, and sometimes not at all after it's release. You already see this problem with 1.6 vs 2.0 vs 2.1 vs 2.2; and as soon as Gingerbread appears you'll be seeing a sudden split between Android version share. This causes problems for developers because each Android version supports varying API levels, so some phones are inevitably left behind by developers.
Hardware-wise you have a lot of phones that are very different. You can have two phones of the same Android version and you'll still see app incompatibilities. Different CPUs, GPUs, cameras, etc., causes developers to work extra hard to make them all work; this sometimes leads them to drop support for some either because of the extra work it would take or because the hardware is just two low end. This is especially true with games and a reason why I think iOS/WP7 will be the leading mobile gaming platforms in a couple of years.
A lot of people think that Android Market will suddenly become the best once Android's market share inevitably over runs iOS; and I personally think it wont because of fragmentation. I don't think people understand just how expensive it is to develop and design an app that is of the top ~10% iOS quality -- it's in the 100's of thousands. Supporting Android is just that much more difficult for developers. Then there's the fact that a lot of the increasing market share is coming from low end phones which: 1) will probably suffer the worse from the fragmentation problem (incompatibilities with apps), and 2) would most likely not even invest into many paid apps anyway.
Beejis said:
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel did it, M$ did it, AMD did it, Nvidia did it and Apple is doing it now. The reason we use Android is so that Corporations don't MAKE us do it. Also, companies like M$, Intel and Nvidia have been pulled into court for things like this. In the end, they "open" back up, because thats what people want.
Brutal-Force said:
Intel did it, M$ did it, AMD did it, Nvidia did it and Apple is doing it now. The reason we use Android is so that Corporations don't MAKE us do it. Also, companies like M$, Intel and Nvidia have been pulled into court for things like this. In the end, they "open" back up, because thats what people want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People want open? Really? People just want good phones.
Best example....
Most people upgrade their phones every two years. So it won't really matter so long in those two years we get at least one upgrade.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
novanosis85 said:
Best example....
Most people upgrade their phones every two years. So it won't really matter so long in those two years we get at least one upgrade.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you'd be okay rocking a 1.6 phone right now and for maybe another year?
This may have been an issue a year ago but if you check this link:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
you can see that 77% of android devices are 2.1 and 2.2. Newer versions of the OS will hopefully decouple software updates from the actual service carrier and phone manufacturer, increasing this percentage even further.
Google makes available many guides for deploying your application and being able to support across all versions. Also, the sdk easily allows you to target the newest version and features while still maintaining portability to older OS versions.
Basically, unless you are developing some crazy cutting edge application then 'fragmentation' is not an issue, hardware or software. Using that as a dividing factor with regards to gauging the success of the operating system is by now a stretch from the truth.
elegantai said:
This may have been an issue a year ago but if you check this link:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
you can see that 77% of android devices are 2.1 and 2.2. Newer versions of the OS will hopefully decouple software updates from the actual service carrier and phone manufacturer, increasing this percentage even further.
Google makes available many guides for deploying your application and being able to support across all versions. Also, the sdk easily allows you to target the newest version and features while still maintaining portability to older OS versions.
Basically, unless you are developing some crazy cutting edge application then 'fragmentation' is not an issue, hardware or software. Using that as a dividing factor with regards to gauging the success of the operating system is by now a stretch from the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd argue that the large share of 2.1/2.2 devices is due to the fact that Android has finally gotten popular and sales of current devices has really picked up. So a majority of phones are currently newer 2.x devices. Lets see how this is once 2.3 is released and OEMs fail to keep them up to date just as how it has been in the past.
That is one possibility, but if you look at the bottom of that page there is a stacked line graph representing the historical distribution over the past 6 months.
If you look at version 2.1 and compare its slope to 1.5/1.6 you can see that the older versions follow the same slope as the 2.1 slope, meaning that 2.1 phones were actually replacing physical phones running 1.5 and 1.6.
If you look at when 2.2 takes a steep upward slope you will not notice the same pattern of 2.1 and older following the slope of 2.2, which tells me that more people upgraded from 2.1 to 2.2.
So if this pattern holds, then hopefully it means phone manufactures are starting to realize the importance of providing newer operating systems for their devices. But as you said, we will see!
It's fragmented, but people wouldn't care if all the apps worked across all versions. That's really the only problem.
The average person does not care how many mflops their device scores in linpack or what their quadrant score is, they just want to play Angry Birds, and their phone they bought last year can't, and they aren't able to upgrade yet.
clamknuckle said:
The average person does not care how many mflops their device scores in linpack or what their quadrant score is, they just want to play Angry Birds, and their phone they bought last year can't, and they aren't able to upgrade yet.
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Click to collapse
This.
10char.
Hello everyone. First off, be clear of one thing: FLASH will not work on our phones even when Froyo is out. Flash was an improvement in Froyo, but it is not going to be in all phones just because they have Froyo..
I see a lot of people complaining that the Froyo releases of the Galaxy 3 do not have Flash 10.1. I opened this topic to inform everyone who doesn't know that Flash is currently only supported on ARMv7 processors, namely the ARM Cortex A8 processors.
The Galaxy 3 has an ARMv6 processor, which is not currently supported by Flash. Adobe has mentioned that Flash might be supported on lower end processors in the near future, but right now it can only run on phones having an ARM Cortex A8 processor.
So right now, Flash is a no-go on our phone, even when the final Froyo update is released.
You can check the requirements for Flash on the following link:
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/systemreqs/#mobile
Also, check out this link which mentions that ARM might be supported on ARM11 (ARMv6) devices in the future:
http://androidandme.com/2010/08/news/flash-player-10-1-could-appear-on-some-arm11-devices/
For those who wonder why the HTC phones have Flash, just found out that the Flash Player on HTC has been developed by HTC themselves. It is not the actual Adobe Flash Player 10.1..
So we can only hope that until final FROYO relese Adobe will mode Flash to work on our hardware
aantdesign said:
So we can only hope that until final FROYO relese Adobe will mode Flash to work on our hardware
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Click to collapse
Not likely. Adobe has said they might make it work on these processors, but it surely isn't at the top of their agenda right now.
But on the other side, if We ask at loud and if we do it in weaves, they will change their mind and support our hardware
addicted2088 said:
Not likely. Adobe has said they might make it work on these processors, but it surely isn't at the top of their agenda right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get this information from?
This is crucial, especially to the people in countries, where this phone has been released for sale recently, such as India. The biggest selling point of this phone, has been the technical ability to upgrade from Eclair to Froyo, as such, the importance of Flash cannot be underestimated. Whilst there are many owners who are not too bothered about this, the vast majority have assumed that purchase of the Apollo, would mean, for their internet phone usage, a very much improved experience, mirroring , albeit on a small scale, a view familiar to the desktop computer.
I hope you may be wrong. Samsung should clarify this, before many others spend too much money.
workaround
Where do you want to use flash ?
a) WEB:
Because you can use SKYFIRE which converts at their servers flash to html5 and you can watch converted flash video at your mobile
b) SD card applications:
I had on my XPERIA X1 (which has slower CPU) flash player and many many flash games. It was working without any lags.
c) what if you install flash player 10 like 3th party application ?
d) do you want to launch complicated Flash www pages at your mobile ? With this stupid resolution ? I think that:
- it has no sense (I hate to read anythink on this display)
- sooner or later the pages will be converted to html5 and we will be able to have them.
So please for what reason do you need flash ?
nastyba said:
Where do you want to use flash ?
a) WEB:
Because you can use SKYFIRE which converts at their servers flash to html5 and you can watch converted flash video at your mobile
b) SD card applications:
I had on my XPERIA X1 (which has slower CPU) flash player and many many flash games. It was working without any lags.
c) what if you install flash player 10 like 3th party application ?
d) do you want to launch complicated Flash www pages at your mobile ? With this stupid resolution ? I think that:
- it has no sense (I hate to read anythink on this display)
- sooner or later the pages will be converted to html5 and we will be able to have them.
So please for what reason do you need flash ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Live score updates would be one feature I use on a regular basis. Many sites require Flash to be viewed properly, and Skyfire is somewhat limited in being able to do so.
The resolution of the phone is a factor, but with many video presentations and live transmissions in the 320/240 mode, the Apollo is more than capable of being able to used for displaying web video. LaolaTV, TVU networks, and Justin TV are examples of this.
An otherwise very capable phone, I would just like to squeeze a bit more of it's potential.
The main requirement of flash is a VFPU(vector floating point unit).it is a physical device that should be present in the chip for flash to work.the older arm processors(arm1136) does not support it(thats why adobe said they wont support older processors). Our processor(arm1176) supports it but it is optional.so it all depends on whether samsung implemnted vfpu in this chip. Considering what they did with 3d graphics my hopes are pretty low.
Flash isnt essential but it would have been nice to have it.i didnt know about these things before i bought the phone.but considering the fact that no device. Anywhere near this price range supports it,i am happy with the phone.
Sent from my GT-I5801 using XDA App
ROLY5573 said:
Where did you get this information from?
This is crucial, especially to the people in countries, where this phone has been released for sale recently, such as India. The biggest selling point of this phone, has been the technical ability to upgrade from Eclair to Froyo, as such, the importance of Flash cannot be underestimated. Whilst there are many owners who are not too bothered about this, the vast majority have assumed that purchase of the Apollo, would mean, for their internet phone usage, a very much improved experience, mirroring , albeit on a small scale, a view familiar to the desktop computer.
I hope you may be wrong. Samsung should clarify this, before many others spend too much money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out this site:
"androidandme.com/2010/08/news/flash-player-10-1-could-appear-on-some-arm11-devices/"
ARM11 is ARMv6, which is there in our phones. So right now it's not gonna work in our phones.
Also check out these mobile system requirements mentioned on Adobe's site:
"adobe.com/products/flashplayer/systemreqs/#mobile"
ROLY5573 said:
Live score updates would be one feature I use on a regular basis. Many sites require Flash to be viewed properly, and Skyfire is somewhat limited in being able to do so.
The resolution of the phone is a factor, but with many video presentations and live transmissions in the 320/240 mode, the Apollo is more than capable of being able to used for displaying web video. LaolaTV, TVU networks, and Justin TV are examples of this.
An otherwise very capable phone, I would just like to squeeze a bit more of it's potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, also SPB TV works or Orange streaming TV (for orange customers), without any problem. I think that it's pricing policy - producers don't want to squeeze the maximum from the cheap phones.
nastyba said:
I agree, also SPB TV works or Orange streaming TV (for orange customers), without any problem. I think that it's pricing policy - producers don't want to squeeze the maximum from the cheap phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Adobe releases Flash for free, it doesn't really matter to them if it's used in cheap or costly phones. The ARMv6 processor is not necessarily used only in cheap phones. Rendering Flash content is a processor intensive job, so it is not an easy job to port it to lower end processors.
addicted2088 said:
As Adobe releases Flash for free, it doesn't really matter to them if it's used in cheap or costly phones. The ARMv6 processor is not necessarily used only in cheap phones. Rendering Flash content is a processor intensive job, so it is not an easy job to port it to lower end processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and HTC wildfire ? I din't mean this no motivation for Adobe but for Samsung to support the cheaper phone. They just implement some widgets, youtube as a start, but later they do not care about old models.
nastyba said:
and HTC wildfire ? I din't mean this no motivation for Adobe but for Samsung to support the cheaper phone. They just implement some widgets, youtube as a start, but later they do not care about old models.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC has been giving Flash support for their Eclair phones, but it doesn't work that great. If you check the Wildfire review on GSMArena, Flash has trouble playing videos on all sites, and only simple games run nicely.
Flash can run on ARMv6 processors, but it hasn't been developed properly for it yet. And no one except HTC gives support for Flash in their Eclair running phones, so it's not only Samsung's fault. Plus, even Samsung gave Flash on the high-end Galaxy S AFTER it was upgraded to Froyo.
Let's see, it's bound to come out for ARMv6 processors sometime, as budget Android phones are only gonna increase in popularity.
U are right
ROLY5573 said:
Where did you get this information from?
This is crucial, especially to the people in countries, where this phone has been released for sale recently, such as India. The biggest selling point of this phone, has been the technical ability to upgrade from Eclair to Froyo, as such, the importance of Flash cannot be underestimated. Whilst there are many owners who are not too bothered about this, the vast majority have assumed that purchase of the Apollo, would mean, for their internet phone usage, a very much improved experience, mirroring , albeit on a small scale, a view familiar to the desktop computer.
I hope you may be wrong. Samsung should clarify this, before many others spend too much money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my GT-I5500L using XDA App
ROLY5573 said:
Live score updates would be one feature I use on a regular basis. Many sites require Flash to be viewed properly, and Skyfire is somewhat limited in being able to do so.
The resolution of the phone is a factor, but with many video presentations and live transmissions in the 320/240 mode, the Apollo is more than capable of being able to used for displaying web video. LaolaTV, TVU networks, and Justin TV are examples of this.
An otherwise very capable phone, I would just like to squeeze a bit more of it's potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hope you know that HTML5 isn't finnished yet, and will take more 2 years to be finnished. Till there, yes we need flash...
addicted2088 said:
HTC has been giving Flash support for their Eclair phones, but it doesn't work that great. If you check the Wildfire review on GSMArena, Flash has trouble playing videos on all sites, and only simple games run nicely.
Flash can run on ARMv6 processors, but it hasn't been developed properly for it yet. And no one except HTC gives support for Flash in their Eclair running phones, so it's not only Samsung's fault. Plus, even Samsung gave Flash on the high-end Galaxy S AFTER it was upgraded to Froyo.
Let's see, it's bound to come out for ARMv6 processors sometime, as budget Android phones are only gonna increase in popularity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now it's clear
welty said:
I really hope you know that HTML5 isn't finnished yet, and will take more 2 years to be finnished. Till there, yes we need flash...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what about LG OO or other 200€ devices ?
Is there any other app that makes flash possible on our phones?
skyfire
flash doesnt work on p500 either....
Hey
It is possible, to install a Flash Lite on 2.2? Because we don't have any flash, and can't watch videos through skyfire. But no - I won't come back to 2.1
hey guys after watching this interview from Microsoft about Windows 8 , for tablets and PCs and laptops ,, i can truthfully say , am not going buy gtab10 or any tablets that support android . am going to wait for the release of any good company for tablet with OS windows 8 and surely i'll buy it ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MnEndww2YQ&feature=player_embedded#at=16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDy-7IZBojo&feature=related
do you think android will get busted by windows 8 ?
i want this on my galaxy tab.....
exactly the same thing came to my mind after watching this
would that be possible? they tried arm that has dual core but how about our single core?
i think it will be so hard to fit windows 8 on galaxy tab .... its depend about the dev , anyways they didn't release it yet . now am thinking of buying tab10.1 or waiting for windows 8 with a good company like samsung and only samsung cuz its easy to play with it
Lol, you think its going to be that fast over 3g/hspda, and no, i doubt this will ever come to android tablets, im pretty sure that these will be built around intels new dual core atoms, or maybe the new snapdragons.
edit: The multi-tasking does look neat tho.
They announced support for ARM..
natious said:
Lol, you think its going to be that fast over 3g/hspda, and no, i doubt this will ever come to android tablets, im pretty sure that these will be built around intels new dual core atoms, or maybe the new snapdragons.
edit: The multi-tasking does look neat tho, and im glad you wont buy another android device, you should sell your tab now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't be happy that much i can't sell my tab have u ever heard someone fall in love with a tab ? ? if u didn't u probably hear it now
that someone is me lolz .. and i didn't ask this to be on my tab !!!! am satisfied with overcome , am saying , windows 8 probably will eat android and mac OS .. maybe who knows
The problems of windows phone is not OS; its a market place, it seems empty. There is nothing on it.
I have used hd2 for couple of month and love user interface of windows but when i open market , it made me mad.
iOS is not a great os , but its apps make it great. Android is growing but windows is all empty place. I will not switch to windows tab unless it has some nice market place.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Pfff, it's Windows !!! it will freeze and crash 1387445 times per day.
And the OS will not be open source, you will not have root.
And the applications will cost more, much more.
I'm willing to give it a try, but I can't say if it'll be better than Android or iOS or QNIX. It's still too early to speculate.
@liniutze
- My Ubuntu crashes a lot more than Windows. My Windows 7 hasn't had a BSOD for a year already.
- Not have root is no problem as long as it will work, imo. What they have to do is to make it idiot-proof.
- We can't really say. There are a lot of free apps for the desktop copy of Windows. If they manage to port a lot of great apps, then money is no problem as long as their quality is nice.
Besides, I expected Apple to have apps which costs like $100. I was wrong, considering that Apple seem to have a more, "prestige" perspective than Windows. I mean, their laptops alone costs twice than Windows laptops.
liniutze said:
Pfff, it's Windows !!! it will freeze and crash 1387445 times per day.
And the OS will not be open source, you will not have root.
And the applications will cost more, much more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I can't believe this is even a conversation. Android is the fastest growing mobile OS out there. There are over 300,000 Android handsets activated each day. That's a pretty amazing stat. I for one won't give up Android, especially for Windows.
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Windows 8 seems great, so this will make people from google to make Android OS even better and that's good for us. Even Windows 7 is actually incredible.
As for iOS, Americans and British will always buy this crap...
Sent from my XT720 using XDA App
What a joke they said windows mobile 7 was going tobe the one not mobiles windows is old history move on.
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ive tried wp7 on a friends phone and its snappy and integrates well with social sites. however, i dont even have an active facebook account and i dont even remember by password in twitter. the only online socialiazing i do is post to forums.
i might have bought one myself but the deal breaker is the missing wifi hotspot functionality. don't count windows mobile out yet. who knows wp8 might be great.
as for windows 8, i think they should retain the current desktop ui as windows 7 is great. the touch interface should only be an option that can be turned on/off. admit it, the keyboard and mouse combo still is supreme if you really needs to get some serious work done. the touch interface for desktop is only good for kiosks or presentations.
the reason for the popularity of other OS alternatives is microsofts fault also. they started going into consoles and put less priority on games for windows. they are diminishing their biggest advantage over the other OSes on home use.. and now if they make windows 8 "touch only", they effectively killed gaming in PCs and i might as well move on to mac.
Where is innovation?
1. They advertise HTML5, Javascript etc as innovation feature, however, the same is possible on both Android and iOS. From my perspective Java is much more capable than any of these. It is object oriented and better suited for large projects.
2. Live applications = widgets on Android
3. There is nothing said about the framework and multitasking.
4. Windows will be a closed platform undoubtedly.
So far it looks like simply a promise and marketing show.
So Yea
I saw the videos and Wow, but then if everything was like in Microsoft Marketing Cuckooland we all be using fling cars and booking our holidays to Saturn directly from our courier file manager (does anyone remember courier?)
In the real world
Android is far more customizable than WM7, and yes probably tiles are nice and better than static icons, but widgets are even more powerful than tiles, hell, you can customize your own widgets in some cases (Check Maker Your Clock Application for example) or even use live wall papers to display info.
If you put your mind to it You can make your android phone to do whatever WM7 do and then some, same goes for ios, lots of things are doable in Android, the only thing needed is people interested and willing to code the right applications.
In WM7 and iOS, sorry, close source, not allowed.
When Win8 comes out and then I see it running in tablets and can compare with whatever version of Android or Chromium and whatever is out call me,
P.S. rest assured that neither Goggle nor Apple wont be seated doing nothing and waiting for MS to take their market share
P
this would make a better tablet with a dock than the transformer! you use you tablet with the same os as you laptops and desktops.
and a marketplace isn't needed. there are tons of sources for windows apps. it may be helpful for a noob, but I know where to get all my software... legally.
if this works well I can see windows taking over both iOS and android. especially if it's as "open" as windows on desktops are. no freaking having to work for root.
No wonder after watching M$ you are euphoric. Its simple social engeneering. Playing on emotions and expectations. The truth is more prosaic. Windows core idea was build on using mouse. MS tried tablets niche many times in the past but never suceeded. Do you imagine mouse with tablet?
This time it will be the same. Much hype will poooof quickly.
I dont consider using windows powered tab since I met android. In fact I have two various fujitsu tabs laying around collecting dust. I need windows to work but for everything else I use android because of easy of use.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
I do like the Look of the Touch UI, but it's just a UI.. Surely that can be duplicated to some extent under Android. If not now defiantly in future releases?
FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app
I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please
At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock
ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
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Click to collapse
If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.
Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.
LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
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Click to collapse
Talk about limited apps...
Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845
Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"
The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.
wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.
haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN!
I can get on board with Windows Phone 8 or even IOS but the only thing I cannot stand is how they don't allow you to have choice. On Android even though it doesn't come as standard any more, I can still download the APK and install Flash Player myself. Average users can just use the OS and never install flash but I'm still allowed to install it as it's a personal need.
Now Windows Phone 8 is out and it is another OS that doesn't allow you to install software they haven't approved. It just pisses me off so much, especially seeing as they don't have BBCiPlayer yet which uses flash. I mean everyone will tell you these days that flash sucks, no one uses it and yet every site I seem to go to does, even Youtube has lots of flash only content you cannot play with HTML5. I mean is HTML5 even going to become the new standard? I don't see people picking it up very fast.
I just don't get why people don't want choice any more, they seem quite happy to defend being controlled and told how to use their phone. I find IOS harder to use than Android and many people I meet do, I mean things like sharing files between your device and your PC which should be so easy has become so hard. You used to be able to just plug in your phone and it would show as a HDD, now however with IOS and I'm sure Windows Phone 8, you cannot do that. I find it funny because people actually do find these so called user friendly devices harder to use. It's like Windows 8 now and how their new Metro UI has tried to make things look so simple that they've hidden all the options. Things once simple to do, you have to right click and then search in settings to find they've removed the feature to keep the UI looking clean.
I'm just sick of it, the least Microsoft could do is allow third party software to be installed as an option for advanced users. This would at least make up for the lack of functionality on a new OS... no BBCiPlayer? No problem, use the Desktop site which I always do on Android anyways as it has far more functionality and content than the app, the same goes for Youtube.
HTML5 is the new standard. It is adobe's policy and attempts to try to maintain the monopoly over the market-share, combined with pure ignorance from established web developers that still keep it alive.
Installing third party software on a phone is kinda dangerous. Your phone is not a desktop PC, it has limited uses, and it should be regarded as such...
Oh and there is really no reason not to have your functional app on the marketplace. If your app is that awesome and yet you can't get it from the marketplace, then there is something wrong with it.
Don't forget about piracy.
Firstly the phone has limited uses? I've got the same Nokia phone that I've had since 2003 and it works fine. I've had the GS2 for a year and a half now and loaded countless custom roms and third party software and the phone is perfectly fine. Also on that point like I've said I've loaded countless amounts of third party software on Android from torrents or other sites and my phone has been fine. I've put lots of different firmware types on my phone and it has been fine. I don't see anything dangerous about it other than being an idiot enough to load some virus onto your phone.
Apps don't get to the market half the time not because there is anything wrong with it but because Microsoft or Apple simply don't want it on their platform. There is nothing wrong with saying you can flick this switch to open you phone but then have a warning saying you void your warranty or whatever if you brick your phone. Why don't they do this? I just think it all comes done to being scared of piracy more than anything and tbh that isn't a good enough excuse.
HTML5 isn't the new standard because 90% of the sites I go to still use flash and not HTML5. I just don't get why they'd say you can never install this on your phone, why not? All these fanboi claims of how bad it is has led to the downfall. I don't know what machines these people are using, I guess they're made up ones because I've never had a problem with flash, it has always run fine and never crashes all the time like people say... not on my GS2 and not on my Desktop. I'd say Flash is one of the most stable things on my system, I mean games crash far more often, surely ban games then for being unstable and poorly coded? Frigging barely any games are multithreaded even now, BAN THEM ALL!
^ What he said ^
All in all WP8 was a huuuge disappointment. At least for me
Venekor said:
Firstly the phone has limited uses? I've got the same Nokia phone that I've had since 2003 and it works fine. I've had the GS2 for a year and a half now and loaded countless custom roms and third party software and the phone is perfectly fine. Also on that point like I've said I've loaded countless amounts of third party software on Android from torrents or other sites and my phone has been fine. I've put lots of different firmware types on my phone and it has been fine. I don't see anything dangerous about it other than being an idiot enough to load some virus onto your phone.
Apps don't get to the market half the time not because there is anything wrong with it but because Microsoft or Apple simply don't want it on their platform. There is nothing wrong with saying you can flick this switch to open you phone but then have a warning saying you void your warranty or whatever if you brick your phone. Why don't they do this? I just think it all comes done to being scared of piracy more than anything and tbh that isn't a good enough excuse.
HTML5 isn't the new standard because 90% of the sites I go to still use flash and not HTML5. I just don't get why they'd say you can never install this on your phone, why not? All these fanboi claims of how bad it is has led to the downfall. I don't know what machines these people are using, I guess they're made up ones because I've never had a problem with flash, it has always run fine and never crashes all the time like people say... not on my GS2 and not on my Desktop. I'd say Flash is one of the most stable things on my system, I mean games crash far more often, surely ban games then for being unstable and poorly coded? Frigging barely any games are multithreaded even now, BAN THEM ALL!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, a phone has limited uses, you can't replace your PC with your phone no matter how much you want that.
Second, downloading apps from torrent is illegal. You have quite a lot of gutts to post such misery on a developer's forums, and i, as a developer, take great offense to that, so please get my sincere GTFO.
Third, Custom roms are something that android needs to survive, without it there would be no android. Windows Phone doesn't need that.
About HTML5, yes it is the standard, but people aren't forced to adapt by the standards instantly, they have a lot of time. But as this time runs out, flash will become extinct, therefore there is no reason to implement flash on new phones, as in 3 year's time, flash will be gone.
If your games have worse stability than flash I suggest you:
Get new RAM, your existing one is damaged.
Reinstall your Operating system, and don't pirate it.
Check your error logs, you will see flash is very unstable.
A ton of websites use HTML5.
Not a lot of websites use the new HTML5 video and audio elements.
A lot of the websites that do use them, either fall back to flash / Silverlight or use flash / Silverlight, first, and fall back to the HTML5 video and audio elements.
The websites that I work with, that use video and audio, do Silverlight, first, and fall back to HTML5 video and audio.
The biggest reasons are...
1: Very little native full-screen support (Chrome has it, but that's about it)
2: Firefox and Opera don't support MP4 / MP3 (we have to produce video is MP4 and WebM and audio in MP3 and OGG)
3: Our live broadcasts use the SmoothStreaming technology (only iOS and Android 3+ support that for HTML5 video - Silverlight supports it and supports most computers)
It is worth noting that I COMPLETELY agree with the point of this thread, though.
The iPhone started a trend of consumerizing smartphones.
As such, a lot of big business is still using Blackberry and Windows Mobile.
I would not be surprised, at all, if, in the next five years, we started seeing another separation of consumer versus professional.
The last few years have really tried to re-integrate the two and it hasn't worked, very well.
JJ
If 90 percent of the sites you visit still use flash then you're going to some low-quality porn sites... Also, WP8 does have disk mode, it also syncs through media player in the same way WinMo did.
mcosmin222 said:
Yes, a phone has limited uses, you can't replace your PC with your phone no matter how much you want that.
Second, downloading apps from torrent is illegal. You have quite a lot of gutts to post such misery on a developer's forums, and i, as a developer, take great offense to that, so please get my sincere GTFO.
Third, Custom roms are something that android needs to survive, without it there would be no android. Windows Phone doesn't need that.
About HTML5, yes it is the standard, but people aren't forced to adapt by the standards instantly, they have a lot of time. But as this time runs out, flash will become extinct, therefore there is no reason to implement flash on new phones, as in 3 year's time, flash will be gone.
If your games have worse stability than flash I suggest you:
Get new RAM, your existing one is damaged.
Reinstall your Operating system, and don't pirate it.
Check your error logs, you will see flash is very unstable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"downloading apps from torrent is illegal"
Uh... Not really. He never said what apps he was downloading. Torrents != piracy.
SilverHedgehog said:
"downloading apps from torrent is illegal"
Uh... Not really. He never said what apps he was downloading. Torrents != piracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Preach, preacha!!!
I would agree that a majority of torrents are copyrighted material, but certainly not everything.
Almost every Linux distribution utilizes torrent as their main means of downloading.
JJ
Venekor said:
On Android even though it doesn't come as standard any more, I can still download the APK and install Flash Player myself. Average users can just use the OS and never install flash but I'm still allowed to install it as it's a personal need.
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On my Jelly Bean I can't do this.
How is having Flash choice?
Can I get Flash from Microsoft or Flash from Apple or Flash from Google? nope, all versions of flash were done by one company. That's not competition or freedom, that is lock in. If Adobe didn't like your OS and phone you didn't get Flash.
HTML5 is like a universal language for all web enabled devices, we're better without these proprietary closed and restricted plugins.
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
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LudoGris said:
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
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I got a little laugh out of this one. Thanks. I agree a bit here. That's what happened to me when I went from pre WinMo 7 to iOS. Now I'm back on Android because of how tired I was of the inability to do something as simple as customize the homescreen. Really, I don't care which one I use and, honestly, I'd use different ones at different times depending on needs and even mood. I flash a little bit with my Android but really like to get settled on something and not have to worry about it. That doesn't work out that often on Android, unfortunately. That's why I relate to the comment on "flashaholic...being cured". I'd like to try out WinPhone 8 for a little bit, but the first thing to turn me off big is the same thing that bothers me on the Win8 desktop, the integration with the MS ecosystem. I'm tied to Google apps and don't feel like switching. It makes most sense for me to use a Google OS because of the strong integration with Google apps.
All that being said, it's just a phone, it's just a desktop, just let me get what I want to get done on the two and have a real life! LOL
The basic fault with the argument here is that the ability to sideload applications has been there in various ways since WP7 came along. It wouldn't help you with your problems though. IE9 on WP7 and IE10 on WP8 simply don't have any plugin support so you wouldn't be able to add any.
The complete architecture of Android is more open and geared towards customization. The effect of that is that we frequently have Apps that don't run (well) on different OS versions, have stuttering problems or have to wait for ages and ages until the customized code gets updates. Allowing for a lot of flexibility with the system makes updating and changing code really challenging. I've encountered numerous of those problems on my GS2. Of course it's running reasonably well after I put CM9.1 on there and didn't bother to change much else but that's hardly how I would use my primary phone (installing Twitter killed Video playback for me on the Stock ROM - for whatever reason).
So basically as a consumer the tradeoff comes down to having everything work as intended without much possibilities to make the system misbehave versus a customized system that I can break at times. It seems there is not much of a middle ground there. We'll have to see how this plays out in the end as Microsoft is indeed adding integration points for developers to use to the system that make it more flexible while still enforcing certain guidelines.
On the whole Flash vs. HTML5 debate. Actually HTML5 can't replace Flash and Silverlight in many use cases. There are not even any standard proposals for certain functionalities that have been part of those Plugins for ages. Webcam-Support, DRM'd Video/Audio, etc. For those reasons alone it will be quite a long time before HTML5 really could replace them. Another important part is that there has been lots of money invested in building sites on top of those technologies. Over 90% of all Web activity still originate on classic PCs/Notebooks that have Flash support so unless your target audience is particularilly Smartphone/Tablet focussed (e.g. Gadget Blogs, etc.) you simply don't feel much pressure to move away from something that works just fine right now.
However Apple led the charge to kill Flash, Microsoft chimed in and in the end even Adobe decided to jump onto that train - even though none of them had a clue how to replace the technology. This clearly showed when Microsoft decided to revive Flash in Windows 8's Metro IE. I still doubt we will see any renewed development of Flash for mobile operating systems and it remains to be seen how long it will keep running on Android given that it has been abandonned by Adobe. It all comes down to the fact that the industry decided to move away from Flash and for better or worse that is what is happening right now. As soon as mobile really becomes important for the web industry things will start changing, right now it simply isn't or it is far easier to simply write an App then messing with a website that's working right now.
Android doesnt let you customize as much as maemo5, but still people choose it.
C'est la vie, necafé?
Personally Im enjoying wp8 for what it is: a smartphone OS. If it was a laptop Id be inclined to agree that it would be too limiting, but its not.
Slai said:
Android doesnt let you customize as much as maemo5, but still people choose it.
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While people like to customize, they also want to have an OS that's actually supported.
LudoGris said:
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
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@LudoGris
Do you know if your device is gonna get software upgrades or have you been able to flash new software. I have the same version as you have but won't be able to flash something new on it.
itsa porno thing
Just go to the jack-shack its cheaper
I was like you : I thought using iOS or WP was a regression because of lack of freedom. I used to heavily flash my Android devices... then I discovered WP (7.5 first, then 8). I really like it because it's simple... and it's working ! No need to flash, no need to choose another launcher, no need to get lost in settings : it works ! It's stable, fluid and ergonomy is great.
I really like WP8 "launcher" AKA Metro. I think it has the best way to personalize information by choosing what is the more pertinent for each user.
I can live in a closed OS if it answer to all my needs... With WP8, it's the case !
zepretender said:
I was like you : I thought using iOS or WP was a regression because of lack of freedom. I used to heavily flash my Android devices...
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We probably don't need another "me too" here, but I have to say, you've summed up my experience perfectly I was thrilled to flash AOKP's ICS and JB onto my old single-core Samsung Fascinate, and then I could get Nova Launcher with gestures and docks and more options than I can recall; but all those new features were slow, slow, slow. So I flashed the Devil kernel and tried different govenors, but of course YGWYPF and my battery life went down the tubes. I had replaced almost all the stock apps with better versions from the market, but my app collection grew to well over a hundred and I needed Titanium Backup to manage it all. So here I am doing like high-level IT support just to get my phone to work as a phone. It was very pretty but my wife was complaining about how I always missed her calls.
My new HTC 8X is such a revelation. There's nothing to do except use it, and it works perfectly. There's no lag ever; everything is right there or at most one or two clicks away, and the stock apps are just fine, thank you. Sure, I have my hit-list of missing features but none rise even to the level of annoyance, and I expect there will be improvement.
My only concern is developer interest. I read this about an IDC survey:
According to IDC, which surveyed almost 5,000 developers, Windows 8 and Windows Phone are in a lot of trouble. While iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (handsets and tablets), and HTML5/mobile web fall well above that crucial 50 percent mark, Windows 8 and Windows Phone fall well short. Only 33 percent of developers said they were very interested in writing Windows 8 “Metro” apps. And only 21 percent were interested in doing so for Windows Phone.
(Fully 85 percent of responders were very interested in writing iPhone apps, and 83 percent were very interested in writing iPad apps. Android handsets and tablets came in at 76 percent and 66 percent, respectively, whereas HTML5/mobile web was at 66 percent as well.)
So we'll see. I think the new handsets from Nokia and HTC will help draw attention to how good the O/S is; but it seems Microsoft is trying now to make itself into a better Apple, only Apple was there first.