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OK guys... I think it's time to have a coming-to-Jesus (or buddha, or Mohamed, or Spaghettimonster) moment. Over many months I have downloaded lots of Roms, followed progress here and there... and quite frankly my opinion is THIS PLACE HERE NEEDS TO GROW UP.
THE PROBLEM
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I mean it's great that everyone and their grandmother can express their creativity by bringing out Roms, by using test releases, adding a few themes and call them stable, by taking dogs and call them fast.
FACT is, most ROMs SUCK, most are unstable don't make it past a few weeks, they start out fast but come to a screeching halt. Or a week in you notice that wifi doenst work, or alarm, or gmail or voice... or gmail works, but you can't send emails... and you'd don't find out until one week later when you really need that feature (at least those of us here who work)
At the end of the day the Roms here are for the most part BS... mine is longer than yours, I am faster then you, I am a pony or not, or stupidfast or or just superfast or superD or fastest or fasttest ...WHATEEVER.. I'd bet that 90% of regular users stop by once, flash a few roms then just get ultimately annoyed by the prepubescent J.O. session.....without any goal or direction or common goal...
THE SOLUTION
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So this place needs to grow up. HOW, well for a start adopt open source dev. principles. Instead of every 12 year old kid with a keyboard releasing their own orgasmicallyfast and ultimaterock stable rom, how about having a few development TREES.
Have different trees, that focus on FAST, STABLE, FUNCTIONAL. Or some mix that is clearly defined in a mission statement. Then have people commit improvements, changes to those trees and have official releases that would actually bring each tree further and add improvements. Have the most respected devs. manage those trees while all the newby devs contribute. Make contributions, being the creator of X or Y be the thing to be known for, not the "being creative in coming up with some dumb rom name".
Why, well it works in the opensource community, and if you look at that model, you'd actually see commercial companies entering the picture, sponsoring developments, donating code, paying salaries of developers, and with the option that some of the best devs. here actually can make a living of the work that is done here. Right now there's so much bs going on, a few minor things are real improvements, a lot is just cosmetic, same thing over with a new label or new mix
With the current situation devs spend hours and hours without the remotest chance that this work is taken seriously by the industry. Do you think they go and flash 100 rom's and test'em all to figure out what works.
Also what is better, to have 1000 Roms out there each used by 1000 people, or 10 used by millions.. in fact it would be a lot more. You'd find more mainstream users using the Rom's and you'd find the industry taking a look and things would move forward, there's evolution.
FINAL WORDS
Sorry to interrupt that happy kumbaya session here, and I am sure I'll get lots of hate/fu comments.. which quite frankly I don't care about - I'll just ignore you.
This is an idea, I want some of the leaders here to think about. Taking this mess and unite devs to actually contribute to some meaningful path forward, that is documented, has a standard, and people and eventually the hardware industry or telecoms or 2nd users (often in developing countries) can rely on, rather than being the side-freak show it is now, mostly created by all the 3rd rate devs that just remix while the people that really make progress are being flooded by the all the garbage out there...
Do whatever you wanna do with this comment... if this ends up being some angry comments flame war thread.. I'll just not gonna come back to it...and if no one sees my point.. then well, feel free to keep dwelling your nice little ecosystem here... and just dream about what this could be... for now I'll move on to my faster android device.. so long everyone.. and would be great if at least a fraction here would agree...
UPDATE:
How about having 2 sections. One for official ROMS - Have the community pick a handfull of ROMs. Each one needs to fulfill a basic set of requirements in regards to bug management/reporting, documentation (including credits), supervision (someone in charge approving code/additions). Also each ROM should have a mission statement as what the goal is of the ROM: f.e. stable and fast, or HERO, or Eclair, or max features, or keeping up with latest Android, etc. The goal is people can read the purpose/strategy/mission of each rom and decide which ROM they want to use and support (also financially) and keep track off. Each ROM needs to have 2 or 3 lead devs in charge.. so if one leaves that continuation is not an issue. If I can follow one Rom and use it for months.. I am much more willing to contribute $ then continually having to jump ship because of abandoned Roms...
If we would structure things this way, the leads for each of those main Roms, likely can live on this part time, we'd get dedicated people, and continuous progress, and results people can use... and it would open the development work to a more mainstream audience...
Cool story, bro.
lol.. your probably gonna get flamed....
but, the thing is they are "PORTING" roms that are not made for the G1/MT3G, most dev's are posting them as "unstable" or "experimental". The problem is that the users are expecting too much. The time it took you to write up all that could have been used to post bug reports.
I agree tho, that there needs to be more centralization with bug reports, more team work involved. Cyanogen and his buddies are doing a great job, I hope the other dev's can learn to work with him, contribute to his builds etc...
Also if your flashing rom's like crazy, its probably a hobby, if you want stable go back to stock and unroot your device
CaptainShanks said:
Cool story, bro.
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quoted for lulz
Bravo! Something that needed to be said since I stopped coming here 5 months ago because of all the bs. Facts are as simple as 4.0.4 was the best g1 roms and most stable since.. well ever. Every rom released since has in my opinion sucked HARD. I've flashed every single freaking one released and I've been visually impressed.. cause the themes are cool.. but i've been slow, and crashing apk's constantly. I don't like where the rom community is going. I believe all themed roms should be put into the Theme section and all of them marked unstable. and all the offical roms posted here. I'd even stretch and say this is one of the reasons Cyanogen removed his threads here. He knows his stuff needs more work and didn't want it here until it was ready. But kids and linking his work and messing around cause they're wannabe programmers and really ruining this site... I'm done ranting but kudo's Alec well said.
I'm hoping Froyo w/JIT comes to the G1/MT3G, Cyanogen will probably be the first with a froyo build, it seems the android dev's are pushing out froyo already Let's wait, be patient, submit bug reports, support the dev's that are spending hours a day porting this **** over..
preach on brother man. but yeah, i mean, the community has always had its drama which whatever..... but really, firerat has been the only one doing what this community used to be about which is helping lend support to other devs roms.
i mean even if you look a couple months back, yeah sure you had about 3 maybe 4 diferent hero roms out there and maybe 3 other 1.6 roms plus Cyanogen's stuff..... but then again the community was alot larger (obviously before 2.1 and before the N1). now we have far less devs, but the same amount of roms. i mean, slide port alone has about 5-6 different ports and it just came out. same with legend and everything else. back then it wouldnt be strange to have several devs on one rom. now its one maybe 2 doing stuff on here (besides CM and teamdouche). they embody what the community used to be about, and the turn is really what has pushed some other mods away.
ive had a cliq and i have talked to eugene and barak about it. the mentality of everyone here basically pushed them away. thats why they dev on the cliq/behold. heck. the cliq community pitched in to get one dev a replacement phone after he bricked and its been sent around to several devs for them to pitch in on the phone since it has different bootloader images etc and its not worth going into bc its a crazy rediculous device. the "community cliq" is basically the phone that gets sent around to make sure development keeps going.
not that im saying we should do that but it just shows that other android devices have much tighter knit communities and dont have anywhere near the bs that we do. for example last night, some guy put out a thread SAYING he took a rom put out by other devs that dropped it, and did some work, then resigned and released. no one said he claimed full ownership of it. then someone has to come into his thread and start uselessly contributing. at that time he replied how he felt which is completely understandable, and he was right in ending the post by saying to continue it on twitter if he wanted to continue the conversation to get on twitter or start something in gen discussion (which where this should prob be btw but i understand the reason for putting it here so more would see). these threads should be for releases and bug repports and ideas for development. not saying awesome! or i cant wait to flash this! or most definatly hey everyone i wouldnt bother flashing this bc someone else is releasing this tomorrow and it will waste your time. that pushed another possible dev away. sure he might not have been super dev who would create his own rom from source, but he might have had a different look at something that might have helped speed up a rom or stop an issue.
moral to the story- were all on the same team, we dont need to shoot ourselves in the foot.
*yes i know this post has grammar and spelling errors. this isnt english class. thats my .02 cents
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
Not much to say on this since I run cdma hero but I do come over here alot to check up to see if anything new thats good has popped for my girls phone up and although I agree partially with what your saying but your approach is wrong. And if you want a good rom two things you can do is make it your self or buy a sprint hero and come on over to our neck of the woods
Looks like someone forgot to take their 'Happy Pills'.
not sure on this guy himself but ive been looking into it for awhile, have the stock system dumps of a couple of dif sense roms and once i feel as though i have a good understanding of the java aspect/coding of it i fully plan on starting. right now im just messing around with apps. basic stuff. but i would be more than happy if anyone did wanna lend a hand at any time.
i wish that if you wanted to submit a rom, you would do it to a site, that would then take and post the rom with no name on it. users could submit bugs anonymously and the dev can then fix the problems. the users would submit a form having required fields like what type of device, sd card information, any apps added/removed and comments sections as well. this would then make it so it was all annonoymous. it wouldnt be hey have you flashed that new hero 5 v6 rom? or that eclair 3 v2 has a problem with wifi, i reported it and it should be fixed in v3. the only people who would have problems with it are people wanting credit. if no one takes credit and no one gives credit...... then where is the issue. people have problems with person b using person a stuff and getting credit for it. well if theres no way to tell who took what from where then what does it matter? unless your a credit whore it doesnt.
the dev i respect more than anyone out there is Barakinflorida.... guy never asked for a donation from anyone, guy is willing to lend a hand and talk to you about whatever it is you have to ask. by far the nicest guy in the android community. and he did it the right way. untill drizzy put him on blast at the end of his thing outing him as the one who basically helped him when he needed it, he was an unknown besides to the main devs and a small group of others.
and its not like the basic ideal of the OP couldnt be achieved. theres all kinds of sites that you can go to to host where people can go and update with their own edits. and if people want credit who cares. take and have them sign the mods they make or things they add/remove and then throw their name on the big board.
whoever has anything to say about credit, i say this.... take the free apps you use, we wont even use the stock OS' since they get paid by big companies (and i know no one will be able to list a developer who deved on one of the stock os' ne ways), and tell me each person who was on that dev team. sure one or two you might be able to. but on most of them..... you prob wont. ie- level up studios, seesmic. its free. how many people use it? and who created it???
exactly.
XxKOLOHExX said:
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
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+1000000000000
The only point the OP got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to Dream/Magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: zach, king, king, king, and king) but I never really expected that a Sense ROM would go super fast on our first gen devices.
Dude, you guys still don't get it... long as you got those big ass "Donate" buttons, and you idiots keep giving them money, and thus, incentive, it's not gonna stop...
I've said it before and I'll say it again (I myself pulled about 500 bucks from two rom series I made):
Contribute code/knowledge, not money. Learn how to do things yourself.
As long as people can make a buck off of simple stuff like porting, they'll continue doing it, subpar as it's always been.
That'll weed out the file-pushers, something every idiot who can use a browser can do, and leave those who actually have something to contribute doing so.
r0man said:
+1000000000000
the only point the op got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to dream/magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: Zach, king, king, king, and king) but i never really expected that a sense rom would go super fast on our first gen devices.
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hahahahaha
rom
this rom sucks. I tried to flash it and it just hangs. This dev sucks. I thought my g1 was gonna grow up into a nexus one. This **** ain't stable at all. To the op "FIX THE DAMN SMS"
would be neat to see a tree with branches for Ramhack, crazy O.C kernels, stable non-crazy kernels, etc... so that we can actually compare apples with apples when it comes to speed from all these weird and wonderful hacks. but thats about it...
I didnt know 12 year olds were making roms, maybe we need to call authorities since I sense a sweat shop! Also, I dont see you creating any roms. You and many other *****ing bastards are the main reason why we cant have nice things in life.
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
RaffieKol said:
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
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A very sad but true statement indeed. I have seen many people on here asking a question only to be told: wrong thread, use search, MOD close this thread! All of that is just ridiculous.. oh yeah.. goodbye in case I get BANNED!
Well i do agree there is a bunch of unnecessary roms out there. I think it would be more beneficial to give support to the main roms like Cyan, instead of making a new rom out of each release.
What the hell is up with all the fighting going on in this forum. A lot of people seem to ***** and moan about every little detail. It seems that whenever i go in to the popular threads like. Eugene's, or the lag fix, etc. and hit the last page, there is a lot of arguing going on. Can't we just be patient and content with what we are offered by the awesome work of the dev's we got. If we continue to ***** and moan about every little thing all they are going to do is work for themselves and maybe a couple of close friends and leave us out because all we ever do is complain. I know we are all eager to use our sweet ass phone to its full potential, but its going to take time. Just look at the g1 and how long it took to have it running at full potential and beyond. All i'm asking for is peace in this thread and make it a pleasure to come in here and read about new developments in peace. [end rant]
thread reported
...twice for good measure
Right on the money
You hit it right on the money.STFU people. Your not dev'n your bit**in, casuing it to slow down. We would porbally have CM6 if people would quit there yappin. Go play outside.
I sincerely hope you don't believe this thread is going to stop anything. This forum has been the same for many years and It will never change. This forum is full of children and they're all going to argue and fight. Your best bet is to ignore it and continue to what you're doing. Posting a thread like this puts yourself right down at their level.
for real. Im not sure if 75% of people on xda are children, but 75% are definitely childish.
i have never seen so much childish like arguing, fighting, and comments in my life
If people posted their age (real of course) I would assume that the large majority are 12-17.
threads like this never seem to actually change anything, but it does make me feel a little better to see a few people not acting like 12 yr olds.
Im not getting all 'high and mighty' but i think i act like a 'normal' person (not a whiny brat).
--not saying that younger people should not be here, or course they should, they just should not act so stupid, aggressive, impatient, disrespectful, immature with the comments
Coming from ppcgeeks this place is a war zone. I actually stayed at ppcgeeks even when I had a nexus one because everyone here is so rude.
You make a new topic and God forbid there's been another one days ago made, so now everyone jumps on your case hard core.
Unfortunately I have to come here cause ppcgeeks is mainly cdma ..
But it took a learning curve coming here.. gotta put on war paint to make a thread or even a post..lol
or if people want to argue about silly little things they can use this thread or make one thread just for arguing, if thats what gets you off, but leave the development threads clean and only post about relevent things dealing with the actual thread
p.s. Thanks Mods for moving it to the proper forum
kboater said:
for real. Im not sure if 75% of people on xda are children, but 75% are definitely childish.
i have never seen so much childish like arguing, fighting, and comments in my life
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Welcome to the internet and the power of anonymous posting! Nothing works better than a mask to hide behind and do and say things *most* people wouldn't do or say face to face.
Luis
Cool story bro.
Sent from the Matrix
Funny all the *****y haters didnt post yet.....hahahaha
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
noticed it myself, and suspect some of it is due to feelings of inadequacy on some posters' - literally
there's one poster that 90%+ of his/her posts are rude, illogical and slamming on someone else's post - i've started to suspect that poster just needs to feed his/her own feelings of self-importance, and a keyboard is an easy & convenient tool
Waaah! My phone don't work! Waaaah! People won't stop complaining! Waaaah! People don't do the things I want them to do!
You know what complaining about complainers gets you? More complainers. Yeah.
Yeah?!?!?!
Well F you for starting this thread BRO!!!
/sarcasm
F everyone i'm done [throws vibrant out window] going back to the g1
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765441
I guess we should all be happy with beta-at-best quality work just because we're "lucky" to get the attention.
any phone has issues. Hell if its not the GPS its something else. N1s wacky touch screen that sucks, Droid x locked bootloader, evo separated screen and frame cap, etc.
No matter what there will always be something needing fixing or in samsungs eyes
OPTIMIZATIONS lol
joe.kerwin said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765441
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lol nice example
I read the title as "missing patches". Haha, I thought you were gonna be whining about no patches for gps or something.
I agree tho, been thinking it was just the captivate side with all the iphone people new to xda. I actually thought of leaving and coming back in a couple of months when things settle down.
Sent from my captivate
From what I see a lot of the pissing matches comes when 1 person has a different opinion on something and everyone has to tell him/her that is wrong.
I do agree though no one should EVER ***** or complain to a developer.
However if someone states a flaw without going oh my god this ruined my phone, but only just states it I don't see why everyone has to try to jump on them (usually the case).
For example in one thread I stated that I missed froyo and I hate that the Vibrant doesn't have it yet. Someone asked me what i missed, I answered with exactly what I missed and examples and I got jumped on for being impatient about developers releasing it. Never once did I say I wanted CM or any develeoper to release it (in fact I want it directly from Samsung), but the pitch forks came screaming those aren't big deals and and i needed to stfu and wait for a developer to release it.... which was never my point.
Too many people think there way is the only right way to think. Its rather annoying to see how far people will go too. Also I find that alot of people in these pissing matches don't read entire posts which I find funny because 1 person is usually arguing with someone who has the same general opinion but slightly different and they make it out to be a night and day difference.
RELAX. I've seen so many 'i've had it, i want to swim in Froyo goodness' that i want to puke.
Let me start by saying that i've been in this community for a Looong time and even ran my own kitchen website at one time. I have had over a dozen smartphones and love upgrades.
With that all out there, I can honestly say that my fascinate is perhaps the only phone i've owned (I have an intercept too) that i don't tweak much. I currently run DJ05 and with the blackish storm theme along with some hacks to allow me to save off to my SD card and GPS fixes.
I install a new ROM (crap kernal, slapkernal, rampage) and themes on the intercept. I did the same for winmo 5 and 6. But the Fascinate, it rocks! Have others here had the pleasure of playing with the famed Galaxy Epic? Our 3G is nearly as fast as their 4G and they $10 a month for that battery draining beast. Verizon is Waaay better than Sprint, ATT and Tmobile put together. Reception is the bomb. The EPic/Vibrant/Captivate soft buttons suck. You need to press them 4 or 5 times to get it to take.
Look, I all for upgrading, but Froyo doesn't buy me any sort of happiness at this point. I really don't give a squat whether it comes out or not. I don't even pine for Gingerbread. For what? We don't have a video camera on the front, so the best features are moot for us.
The reality is that Froyo and Gingerbread are just performance tweaks. I have it on my Intercept, woohooo (sarcasm). It will make a ****ty phone into a reasonable phone, but it won't make a great phone any better. Do you have slowdowns on the Fascinate? I'm running Asphalt 5 and Spiderman from the Galaxy Tab on the FAscinate without nearly a hint of lag. Oh of course, we have the same hardware, the best hardware currently out on the market. Until the ATrix/optimus comes to the states.
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
Here's an analogy, if you're driving a 250mph Mercedes AMG, do you care if Mercedes says it's coming out with a new one with an extra 10hp?
orateam said:
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
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I completely agree. If I may share and I mean absolutely no disrespect whatsoever, but you do realize that you have just contributed to exactly that.
Again I mean no harm but in short just don't reply to them. Just my thoughts.
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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BTW I accidentally thanked you.
Seriously though, can you imagine trying to follow the latest development going on while several new guys who keep spamming with "WHEREZ THE FROYOZ YO." It's not easy. It's frustrating. I know I come across as arrogant and elitist, but this comes from dealing with people asking the same question over and over and over again. It's really not that the members here are trying to be harsh.
Having tried to help several users with their issues when new ROMs/development comes out, it's not easy to have to deal with everyone's issues while having to sort through the FROYO threads.
Also if you read the sticky, the moderator posted... STOP POSTING WHERE IS THE FROYO THREADS...
If you can't even read that... I'm not saying that they deserve a flaming, but it's going to happen. This forum has seen countless froyo threads. Search froyo in the Samsung Fascinate section of this forum and you'll see just how many...
Bwangster12 said:
If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Because this site belongs to the "super-intelligent" ones. And keeping a development site free and clear of non-development type threads will keep the "super-intelligent" happy. But gone are the days when users would join and lurk and self-educate themselves and would be aware of the fact that this is a development site for developers and not a place to parrot the latest engaget article about 2.2 on a completely different device.
I myself first came to xda and lurked for 4 months and then I joined in October of 2008 and I kept lurking and reading and reading and google searching and more reading. The first post I ever made was in April of 2009 and it was answering a question someone had. And that's because I identified the fact that this a development site for developers to create and share their hard work. This is not an end-user hacking site. And this is NOT an OH NO I GOT THIS PHONE YESTERDAY AND I DID A BUNCH A CRAP TO MY $500 DEVICE WITHOUT PROPERLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT I WAS EXACTLY DOING AND NOW IT'S STUCK ON THE SAMSUNG LOGO, HELP ME site.
And that is why the "super-intelligent" might be a little annoyed that their little development site has been overrun by people that show little to no respect and actually think that their opinions and parroted news stories actually matter. Or just blatantly create a help me thread without even spending 5 minutes of searching with google to actually mmmm I don't know, but help themselves.
Mom always told me "you made that mess. So now you are gonna clean up that mess"
good day.
+1 chopper and racer...
longtime Lurker and reader myself and it makes me cringe when I see someone with a ton of posts and says "how do I fix (some random problem) without ADB cuz I don't know how to use it"
The actual name of this site is "XDA Developers" I know how to look up engadget on the web when I want to know the latest rumors or news. =)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night.
That said, MY reason for lurking about on all things Froyo/Gingerbread for my phone is that I'm very interested in AOSP-based ROMs for it, and 2.2/2.3 are the OS revisions on which the devs are actively pursuing this accomplishment. While I am a software developer by trade (and I'd like to think a damn good one), I have NOTHING I can contribute to these efforts. I hate Java, I don't know enough about hacking hardware to make functional drivers without proper documentation, hell, I've never even *installed* Eclipse. Basically I am as useless as anyone else off the street would be out here. The difference seems to be that I KNOW THAT. I can't do these things, I don't want to take the time to learn how to do these things, and as a result I have no right to ***** and moan that these things haven't been done (yet). Instead, I sit in awe as others do these things I cannot and wait patiently for the day when I can benefit from someone else's hard work for a change ... and I'm happy to do so. I actually enjoy watching other, most likely younger, developers go through the process of creating something really cool armed with nothing but their own wit and persistence. The end result of their efforts will be something I not only desire for my own use, but will be something I could use to jump-start my own entry into this world should I change my mind and want to actively pursue such a thing.
My phone works great already, thanks to the people here. It runs Android 2.1. It does every single thing I've wanted it to do thus far, with these people's help. Yes, it has some annoyances that in my case would be resolved by having access to a truly stock AOSP-based system, and of course Froyo/Gingerbread is what I'd prefer over Eclair, but I can wait. I will wait. I will continue to donate an admittedly trivial amount of my hard earned money to the developers actively pursuing the end result I'm looking for that I'm not willing to work towards on my own.
I went from Troll to full-on Preacher here ... I can live with that I just hope that the devs here can see that there are people out there that both appreciate and admire them for what they do and hope they can turn a blind eye to the entitled jerks that continue to want something for nothing every day.
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
djp952 said:
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night...
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
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Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
orateam said:
Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
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Click to collapse
Why post something like that when it's clear that this guy had a fluke update experience? And to say we will have the same issues is sort of ridiculous. Sorry. I never had one problem updating to 2.2 on my og droid as well as my incredible. Obviously there will be a very small portion of people that have a problem with it as this guy did.
I understand the point of this thread is to stop all of the "Where is froyo?" threads, but to start saying we don't want or need 2.2 is sort of silly. Am I happy with 2.1 and how it runs on this phone? You bet. Do I think 2.2 will only improve this phone and take advantage of its potential even more? For sure. It'll come when it comes, but let's not downtalk it in the meantime.
e: Also, to the OP, why don't the little performance tweaks matter? What about the fact that 2.2 should help improve battery life which, in my opinion, this phone definitely needs? And the 250mph and 10hp analogy is really far off from what this is. It's more like a mercedes getting an engine tuneup as well as a variety of other small upgrades to enhance the overall experience of the car. Even if it's not revolutionary as some people believe (and no, I know it's not as I've gone through the update to 2.2 on a couple devices now), why not be excited if it enhances the experience overall?
Like I said before, I agree people should chill with all of the posts/topics about froyo along with all of their nagging. However, there's no reason to talk down about 2.2, either.
still lurking
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
mexiken said:
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
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I blame engadget.
Keep this forum clean. Go dump all this crap at droidforums.net instead!
Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Thanks for people like you. I posted something in development about froyo. To me out was a legit development question. Since I did not word it correctly I been flamed for days even after I apologized. I mean its almost like being bait in a fish tank. What kind of taste in the mouth does this give someone new like me. The people that flamed do not know what my potential might be for contributions to this site. I know the moderators are mad that people are sometimes posting in the wrong forum, but that is always going to happen. Not one "real" developer flamed me nor did any moderator. The people that think they are comedians are the real problem in forums like this, not the people with real questions our concerns. Sorry for venting, but some people need to grow up
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
OP it's hilarious you created another FROYO thread to protest the creation of FROYO threads.
Way to go with killing off these threads!
dricacho said:
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
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Click to collapse
Thanks
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
In my past year being an android owner I have noticed a change of attitude in the development threads. When I bought my vibrant when it first came out a friend referred me to XDA. I was new to the android OS and didn't really know too much about how to root, flash, etc. This site taught me everything I know about my phone that I do today, and I learned by using the SEARCH button. I hate to ask questions especially if I was the one to break it. I have "soft" bricked my phone more times than I can count. And everytime I do and its something new that I have never seen I use the SEARCH button and like magic answers appear on my computer screen.
But back to my original gripe about the attitude in the dev section. Used to, people read the warnings that were CLEARLY posted in the OP of a new rom. They also followed directions like the rom dev posted. Now there were a few people who didn't and ****ed their **** up but nothing like there is today. I was a noob back then and really didn't understand half the stuff of what was posted. But I read and researched and now today I finally have an understanding (albeit small, but an understanding none the less).
For the last couple of months though everytime a new rom comes out and we'll use these 2 as an example (Frost by Krylon and then CM7) people fill the thread with pointless ****. Yeah I understand that problems and glitches need to be reported but after 10 pages of the same **** over and over again I think the dev understands that "hey this issue may need to be resolved ". Once 1000 people same the same **** about a issue they found STOP posting **** people. It clutters the ****ing thread for people who actually read for the sake of not bricking their $250 device.
Take for instance the CM7 thread right now. If you sit there and read every page you are going to find at least 10 people that have used the 2g/3g toggle widget and ****ed their **** up by doing it. Even though it CLEARLY STATES IN THE OP not to use it. Then they wanted to complain and say it was an issue with the rom and it should have never been released yet, but because of their actions and stupididty they caused the problem to begin with.
Then in the Frost thread people are just ASSHOLES. Krylon worked his ass off to put out a 2.2.1 TW rom. These people who flashed a rom that was FREE for them started demanding he do this, and put this into the rom, and blah ****ing blah. PEOPLE these guys and girls do this **** in their free time for FREE. And if you like what they put out then by all means donate. But we have a saying down here "Don't **** with the hands that feed you."
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
Pretty soon if the *****ing and nit picky **** continues the devs will just leave. Kinda like Eugene has done before. Like I said these guys do this **** for free in their spare time for fun but here recently with some of the comments that I seen posted it has kinda taken the fun out of it.
This is a community, basically we are one big android family. We all have a common goal and that is to make our stock phone run at its full potential. Part of the fun of flashing a new rom is seeing all the modifications and themes that were put into it. I have always thought of a new rom like opening a present on Christmas morning when I was like 5 years old. Yeah sure you might have a bad flash or 2 but that's the other part of the fun. Learning how to fix the mistake that was made. That way you learn from your experiences and the next time that happens, hell you will know what to do to fix it.
Im almost done I promise.
In short just use the search bar before posting an issue. I promise the answers you seek are out there. I know because I have had the phone to pc error, the E. Can't mount and I seen that error message several different ways. But also read read read the OP because 9 times out of 10 the devs already know about the issue or have posted what is not working and you should not use that feature of the rom.
Thanks for your time reading this and if it sounds like a madman ranting you can thank tapatalk and the small screen. It was hard to see and that's why there are so many paragraphs. But I felt this has been needing to be said for a while now and reading the cm7 thread tonight was the icebreaker.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
+1
I lurked on the Vibrant forums for a good month and a half before I even made my first post (coincidentally, it was the time when JI6 was going OTA). Before I even made my first Vibrant related post, I knew about the terms Odin and Froyo that doesnt brick and all the other goodies (although I was no expert at the time). It helped me immensely the first time I soft-bricked and it kept me from panic.
Reading is a lost art.
I know if people only read more it would save a lot of headaches.
I agree 100% with the FIRST 3 paragraphs, after that I fell asleep. Search button is everyones friend.
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
vibrant2010 said:
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
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Click to collapse
I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I would add is that just skimming over the OP does not get it you need to read it THOROUGHLY AT LEAST TWICE and sometimes three times. I know I have to and even than I am ashamed to say I have not understood key points in the OP. I cannot even imagine how the Dev feels when reading the thread with all of the redundant questions and statements. I am so appreciative to the devs and to this community. Without them I would not have any of the very small level of knowledge and experience(very small) and the confidence to mess with this 250.00 phone. A tip of my hat to the entire community(those that read) and most specifically the DEVS!!!!!!!!!
But,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876777
Is a sticked post on every forum subsection...
Maybe the mods need to post in ALL CAPS!
So chances are... if people don't read the stickies (which answers most of the questions)
Then... well...
I think that the fact that the Vibrant is so difficult to hard brick and people's lack of attention to detail lead to a lot of the dumb questions. While that is annoying, people demanding the devs do this or that and the general rudeness is what really ticks me off. Asking that a feature be added nicely is one thing, but telling them to do something crosses the line. The Frost and MIUI threads are key examples of this. The sense of entitlement around here is dumbfounding.
Have you seen the MIUI thread? Its been cleaned at least 5 times. That thread alone makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. Here's a summary of some of the dipshits that wandered in there:
"I was forced to run this buggy beta on my phone for a week"
"This never should have been released" (never heard of beta testing apparently)
"He's sick? I don't care, updates or I want my money back.....oh wait..."
I love Android, but there are too many ****ing children here with no respect. (Makes me sound like an old man)
Only on the internet, can you have someone who provides an awesome service, at no charge to anyone, and people still be absolute pricks to them.
Haha you remind me of how i used to be on this forum with my crusader posts
unfortunately most of the **** you are talking about WILL NEVER change. its just the way it is. everyone is lazy to a certain degree, but some people are much lazier than others. its just how the world turns. and once you start giving these people hand-outs, for lack of a better term, it will only make it worse.
vibrant2010 said:
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
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Click to collapse
+10 on this^^^
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature. I think the problem with most people is they do not know how "find" what they are looking for with ease. For example switching search entire post instead of search title will give information overload in the search results. To even use these options you must select advanced search. But all anyone says is use search. When a noob is faced with 10 pages of results he/she is goin to start a new thread or repeat a post. The op point is valid not new.
ntellegence said:
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature.
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Click to collapse
i disagree with you. YES rant threads, in general, accomplish absolutely nothing.
with that said, just because the OP is annoyed with some very relevant problems, does not mean its his responsibility to coach people on basic forum rules. the rules are easily accessible, and honestly....lets not kid ourselves....these people know that the search function is there, they dont need us to tell them.
in fact, id rather see a rant like this than a "search function" thread. "searchsearchsearch" is the oldest ***** in the book. people arent going to search. thats the way it is, theres no reason to start a thread on it, its a problem you can find on ANY forum on the internet......and there are quite a few out there.
in terms of this rant, the OP does bring up some other points that are development specific that are important.
Being on XDA for 3 years, I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
To that, I say I do my best to make sure the stickies have the most common questions and are updated, and I solicit constantly for people to help me monitor/update. I feel the Dev Bible does a good job of this too.
So, ASSUME the searched information is correct.
And yes, do SEARCH!
EDIT, and the OP was so long I gave up on reading it all.
s15274n said:
I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
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Click to collapse
this is very true. there are times when you will read something, but youre feeling over-cautious, and you want to just "hear it" directly from someone just to verify.
i really dont have any problem with that at all, its perfectly understandable. problem is its impossible to know when someones doing that, or if theyre just being a sack of sht.
hey am a living proff people learn from mistakes ............LOOK AT ME NOW )
Well said.......
But, people don't read and many that do don't understand what is being said. That contributes to 1/2 the problem,,,,,,But---
Couldn't agree with you more
Failure to search pales in comparison to the flat out disrespect and sense of entitlement shown by some members.
As TopShelf said, getting people to search is a problem that pretty much comes with the territory. Also as was mentioned, people want confirmation, or they feel their situation is somehow unique enough to warrant its own topic/post. We were all new once, so this is understandable.
There is no excuse, however, for the selfish behavior of a lot of these people.
Yes this is a rant thread that offers no real solutions, but short of banning anyone who steps out of line (I am not suggesting this should be done), there aren't really any real solutions. Its just good to vent every now and then, that's why its called a rant.
Problem: People don't read.
Solution: Text-to-speech. (ooo and make it Linda's voice)
Well said.
It's nice to see how passionate some of us can get, and I think that's what makes these forums so good. Sadly there's always going to be these idiots who should have purchased iphones that don't know how to read the OP or follow instructions. They just get flash happy and f*ck up their phones then blame it on the dev's all because they don't know how to read. Sadly what those imbeciles don't realize is that they are slowly getting rid of the dev's who make the roms. Without them we'd be stuck with boring devices.
I'd personally like to see more bans. Ask a question that has been answered in the OP: BOOM, warning. Make that same stupid mistake again, BANNED! XDA needs to start weeding out the morons. This isn't a place for brain dead pot smoking teens who dnt no how 2 sp3ll. It's a place for learning, helping and modding.
Ahh it feels nice to rant.
Paging Dr B said:
XDA needs to start weeding out the morons.
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Click to collapse
HAHA say goodbye to 75% of the members, some might say myself included
lets face it, its hard to judge members, because every single member is going to have different opinions about every other member.
mho: they need to enforce the rules more. they need to start disclipining. whether its a 2-post noob, or a 2000-post vet....if someone gets disrespectful....drop the hammer. AND DISPLAY DISCPLINE COUNTS ON USER PROFILE AND WHEREVER THEY POST. we have a "thank you meter", how about a "**** you" meter. bad reputation should be meaured as well, so people know who they are dealing with, and members are held accountable for the way they act.
theres too much politics, and THATS the problem. we have noobs being noobs, but we also have old-timers running around thinking they can say whatever to whoever. and to be honest...i get much more upset when someone gets egotistical rather than when someone doesnt search.
theres too much "internet muscle" on this forum, and frankly its embarassing. some dudes seem to think that just cause they know how to mod a services.jar means they have some sort of special talent, which entitles them to some sort of virtual ego. please dude, it aint that hard, a little modesty never hurt anybody.
NO ONE here should be immune to discipline. from noob to dev....same rules for everybody....that is XDAs biggest weakness.
this belongs in the androdev forum but i cannot post there so here goes,
word of warning NEITHER of these roms work both have process.android.phone has stopped, followed by, you have inserted a sim card you must restart phone, unless you know what you are doing stick to either aokp or cyano9 if you really want working ics.
counting down to cm10 XD
lol :banghead:
sent mysteriously via OTA
OT
slymobi said:
lol :banghead:
sent mysteriously via OTA
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Click to collapse
did you know: flashing non stock ROMs is evil anyway :silly:
no way,, didnt htc send out an apb saying that custom roms are kewl and sense sucks A**, damn mayhaps i should shrink back to froyo,,,, or i could not be a douchebag and actually tell people my experiences using ROMs to save people time and effort downloading things that dont work? (im not having ago at anyone i just cant stand people making pointless comments when im only trying to help) :good:
dgmhunt said:
no way,, didnt htc send out an apb saying that custom roms are kewl and sense sucks A**, damn mayhaps i should shrink back to froyo,,,, or i could not be a douchebag and actually tell people my experiences using ROMs to save people time and effort downloading things that dont work? (im not having ago at anyone i just cant stand people making pointless comments when im only trying to help) :good:
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sorry, no offense intended. But look: if you read through those threads you will find many people having problems (some ROM or bug related, some individually related to ppls setups or they mess things up whatever).
I guess a lot of people I know and read of here at XDA do exactly the same thing as I do: either having a good read through the whole thread or staying on the safe side by having a full nandroid backup or asking the people using the ROM or - what I most likely will do: all of that
In other words: all of those ROMs have issues - some might be minimal or even don't show up for most of the people while others can't even considered as an alpha release as important things simply don't work.
This has been the long story - like I said: no offense (but I won't drop my sarcasm, sorry).
And please...: This is NOT pointless. On top of the OP of the Gummy ROM even my grandma could read (in BIG letters):
Rom experiment (oh but wait... it's not in red... and not blinking... so probably he doesn't mean "experiment" - he just wrote that for fun... )
---EDIT---
furthermore if you really like to help it wouldn't hurt to be more specific. At least for Oxygen you should be aware of that there's another ROM (2.3.7) - could lead into confusion
To the op, see you in another 4 months when you open your next pointless thread..........
You only need 10 posts to post in the dev section which isn't that hard to get is it? Your already halfway there........
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
usually im not the first to respond to a rom, at the time of the original post no one had given a response to oxygen (ics) and in the main thread someone asked if it was stable etc. Having tested and reverted (yes with my nandroid backup)i imparted MY experience with both as no one else seemed to bother. and in all fairness probs saved alot of people who have capped internet time and bandwidth.
yes im aware of the big EXPERIMENT sign, insulting my understanding of English is poor play, as you should know experiment explains NOTHING more than "this is a test" it does not go into what works and what doesnt (wonders how many people downloaded gummy since the 5th and were impressed till they got a phone call) someone asked a question and i replied.
i know i need to make ten posts to be able to post in dev,
just seems everytime i do i get abuse from a bunch of elitists,
like you didnt all start somewhere
peace
EDIT: if you look at the roms thread you will see the reply to "is it stable" is infact a link to this thread, so yes your comments were POINTLESS
lol more now :banghead: I'm getting headache with all my headbanging.
MokeeOs
dgmhunt said:
usually im not the first to respond to a rom, at the time of the original post no one had given a response to oxygen (ics) and in the main thread someone asked if it was stable etc. Having tested and reverted (yes with my nandroid backup)i imparted MY experience with both as no one else seemed to bother. and in all fairness probs saved alot of people who have capped internet time and bandwidth.
yes im aware of the big EXPERIMENT sign, insulting my understanding of English is poor play, as you should know experiment explains NOTHING more than "this is a test" it does not go into what works and what doesnt (wonders how many people downloaded gummy since the 5th and were impressed till they got a phone call) someone asked a question and i replied.
i know i need to make ten posts to be able to post in dev,
just seems everytime i do i get abuse from a bunch of elitists,
like you didnt all start somewhere
peace
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Click to collapse
no worries - really - and yes "elitists" might of course match - as this is XDA Developers a place where most people aren't developers but elitists but it is not the Google Play Store (where you expect things to work and otherwise give a low rating and a negative comment). I appreciate that there are people over here (like you) who want to help - that's a good thing. On the other hand (almost) everything here goes over modding, hacking, tweaking, making your phone your own and I seriously doubt that many of the users here think you could try any of those custom ROMs without any risk. So to make it a bit clearer and to be absolute honest (hey and still no offense intended and really, really no worries): my personal opinion, my initial and very first thought when I did read your post was: this post is pointless. yup - that's all. Just take your time a few weeks (in case you like to participate - looks like you do) and you probably will understand what I mean...
OMG I'm already letting the troll out again... Like I said: all good - don't take it too serious