Database Users

Xperia's color gradients smoother than on other devices

There are always complaints on this forum about color banding on the Xperia's 65k display, so I thought that on my new Galaxy Tablet which boasts '16 million' colors in its specs this issue would not be present.
To my surprise, Xperia's color gradients are a lot smoother.
One example would be the XDA app welcome screen which is very smooth on the Xperia's screen, but shows coarse banding on the Galaxy Tab.
The dithering technique on the Xperia seems a lot more sophisticated and I came to question if Android OS is even capable of displaying over 65536 colors at all.
Any insights into the issue?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

SE changed it to look better becouse normally it would should look worser with 65k and they didnt implented 16m Colors so they changed this to look better.

Samsung always fudge their numbers.
I remember buying a samsung monitor, which was the most expensive at the time, advertised as 16+ million colours and the thing done some horrible dithering - Everything had dithering on it! EVERYTHING.
The older LCD 16bit monitor it replaced had no noticeable dithering at all and gradient changes were subtle.
I've never bought a Samsuck product again.
The samsung galaxy S is also doing some weird stuff with its colours, it's blacks are fantastic but everything else is bleh!! and the pixels are about 10X bigger than the X10s.

The color from 1.6 were noticeably garbage....alot of my favorite wallpapers looked like **** with lines all over....I couldn't even use them. Then SE announced they would not be giving us 16M colors in 2.1 so I was pissed! BUT! I didn't know they were going to do something with the colors...because whatever they did they most certainly did a damn good job because the colors in 2.1 are phenominal! ALL the wallpapers I choose look AWESOME! As for Samsung....I think there super amoled screen is overated...I just sold my Galaxy S to return to the X10...the screen is really nice on the Galaxy, but like I said before the higher resolution on the X10 makes it a very VERY close match IMO.

Mr Patchy Patch said:
I just sold my Galaxy S to return to the X10...
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Click to collapse
Applause!!!

Mr Patchy Patch said:
...I just sold my Galaxy S to return to the X10....
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Click to collapse
Good call!

im_iceman said:
Good call!
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Click to collapse
Yes...now next time someone tries to brag about having a galaxy....i can laugh in there face lol.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

cytokine said:
There are always complaints on this forum about color banding on the Xperia's 65k display, so I thought that on my new Galaxy Tablet which boasts '16 million' colors in its specs this issue would not be present.
To my surprise, Xperia's color gradients are a lot smoother.
One example would be the XDA app welcome screen which is very smooth on the Xperia's screen, but shows coarse banding on the Galaxy Tab.
The dithering technique on the Xperia seems a lot more sophisticated and I came to question if Android OS is even capable of displaying over 65536 colors at all.
Any insights into the issue?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a bit off topic....can you post a pic of your X10 next to the galaxy tab.Want to see the size comparison

Yes....dark blacks aside, the colors in the SGS are too oversaturated and a pain on the eye. Also, all the AMOLED screens have a strange greenish-blue tint to the colours - I have nticed this in all AMOLEDs, right from the Nokia N86 to the Samsung Wave to the SGS...

bbsrailfan said:
Yes....dark blacks aside, the colors in the SGS are too oversaturated and a pain on the eye. Also, all the AMOLED screens have a strange greenish-blue tint to the colours - I have nticed this in all AMOLEDs, right from the Nokia N86 to the Samsung Wave to the SGS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I thought it was just me that saw that weird tint to the colors. It is really noticeable when you compare it to our screens.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

mith500 said:
a bit off topic....can you post a pic of your X10 next to the galaxy tab.Want to see the size comparison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have much in terms of a proper photo equipment, but there you go.
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[ANALYSIS] ASUS Eee Pad Transformer screen measurements

Hi guys!
As you know EeePad Transformer has quite a capable screen, with excellent viewing angles and good response time.
I just wrote an application to ease screen measurements, Free on market and Open Source, named Screen Test Patterns
But you might ask why its color look desaturated despite its correct contrast ratio.
I measure mine at 593:1.
All this explains when looking at the measurement graphs.
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Luminance​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Target 2.2 Gamma is the white curve.
Almost every color are displayed brighter than it should, which results in washed out colors.
Red curve is also brighter than Green and Blue ones, that makes the colors looks a bit reddish.
At almost white there is some clipping, fortunately quite minor.
Gamma​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Consequence of the luminance curve, the gamma curve is very far from following 2.2 reference line as it should.
Average on this screen is gamma 2, which explains by itself the washed out colors (even if it's not the only factor)
Near Black
Near white​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Near black there is no clipping but the screen uses a common trick to increase the visual contrast, by lowering the luminance of the darkest values (its called black point compensation)
That's not pure 2.2 nor fits to the sRGB model, but it's a nice detail improving the visual result IMHO.
Near white thing's are not right, there is some clipping. Means values 252, 253, 254 and 255 gives the same output. Not terrible in its amount but never welcomed.

Now about colors:
RGB Levels (compared to 6500K)​
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Click to collapse
Here is individual Red Green and Blue channels values compared to what they should be to get a 2.2 gamma response at D65 / 6500K which is the industry standard for content display (web, videos)
Color Temperature​
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Click to collapse
Color temperature is mostly between 7500K and 8000K, but that's just numbers.
The most important in this graph is its linearity.
As you can see the white balance shifts to blueish in low between 0 and 15% gray.
This is because the black point of this screen (which is not black obviously) has not the same color characteristics as the other grays.
This screen doesn't really shines in this area, but its the case of most LCDs so there's nothing to worry here.
Still, it explains why dark grays look a bit blue.
Saturation Lumiance​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saturation Luminance graph allows to detect artificial color boosting like by an image processing
This graph shows that the luminance of colors are fairly linear. Not perfect due to screen hardware limitations, but okay.
Only notable is Greens and Yellows which are often lighter than then should. Once again it reinforce the lack of color punch, especially since its the colors our eye is the most sensitive to.
Saturation Shifts​
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Click to collapse
100% Saturation is pure Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/Cyan/Magenta
This graph shows how much saturated are colors which are not at 100% saturation level (every non primary or secondary colors)
This graph shows that Red and Green colors lack saturation the most.
Blue saturation is a bit higher than it should in general.
I must admit I have no explanation why Cyan saturation is measured so high. It may demonstrate the presence of some sort of processing, but probably I don't understand the graph well enough yet.
CIE Diagram​
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Click to collapse
And here is finally the famous CIE Diagram.
The latest explanation for the dull color is here: you can see the gamut is a bit small compared to the reference sRGB behind.
A smaller gamut has for consequence less vibrant colors.
Blue is okay, still lacks some extend, but Red and Green extension is lacking, as perceived by naked eye.
The additional dots show the screen is not affected by any color conversion distortion.

Wow, nice analysis there! I'm planning on getting a Transformer this fall for light school work stuff for ultra portability and long battery life.
So does this mean you are working on a Voodoo Color for the Transformer IPS panel?

jamesnmandy said:
Wow, nice analysis there! I'm planning on getting a Transformer this fall for light school work stuff for ultra portability and long battery life.
So does this mean you are working on a Voodoo Color for the Transformer IPS panel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
Transformer Kernel has no trace of any drivers nor hardware capable of color correction.
It's not impossible Tegra2 display controller has a LUT but still unlikely as no Tegra2 device I saw offer "color vibrance" control or things like that integrated in their PC hardware and drivers.
At the contrary, Galaxy Tab 10.1 which is also Tegra2 adds another screen controller with a very advanced color correction engine (implementing even things like sharpening, noise reduction, dynamic contrast, chroma channels adjustments), not available in Transformer hardware.
Tegra2 is not especially documented.
Honeycomb is closed source (for a potential OpenGL engine)
So no not planned so far, it's just an analysis in order to better understand what/how/why, and have fun with the tool I just wrote.

Well written analysis. Although I don't have a transformer (maybe wait for newer generations?), I really appreciate your approach in the refinement of sound and visual on our android devices. Your measurements and analyses are some of the most, if not the most, detailed and informative ones that laymen like me will be able to obtain and comprehend. Thank you.

Great analysis.
Just a question: did you run the analysis on a B60 or B50?
In my experience, having owned the two, B50 has a very cold display, (as in your finding) while B60 is much warmer and pretty close to my calibrated monitor.

wis38 said:
Great analysis.
Just a question: did you run the analysis on a B60 or B50?
In my experience, having owned the two, B50 has a very cold display, (as in your finding) while B60 is much warmer and pretty close to my calibrated monitor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh really there are several screen revisions with different color characteristics? (only backlight or more profound?)
I'm not sure what you cakll B60 or B50. If it's about the serial number, mine is partially wiped from the bottom transparent sticker, but its seems its:
B40KAS057442 12
The screen on my device is a bit cool but looks pinkish despite what the T° in Kevlin would say.
I'm not totally confident in the temperature reading of my colorimeters BTW, in some conditions.
Please tell me all that you know about different screen revisions
Anyway it makes sense there are several screen revisions because my measurement don't match in terms of temperature DisplayMate ones.

supercurio said:
It's not impossible Tegra2 display controller has a LUT but still unlikely as no Tegra2 device I saw offer "color vibrance" control or things like that integrated in their PC hardware and drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only just found this thread. Man, if accurate, that's seriously disappointing. Did you ever get any reply on Twitter from Nvidia re LUT info or documentation?

Screen comparison: Samsung Galaxy S III vs the fierce competition

Another comparo of s3 is out guysss but this time its on the display.. .. ..
Just check this out ! !
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Scre...alaxy-S-III-vs-the-fierce-competition_id30435

What?

pikulu said:
Another comparo of s3 is out guysss but this time its on the display.. .. ..
Just check this out ! !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you forgot to add something there...
What is it you wanted us to see?

enigmaamit said:
I think you forgot to add something there...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
something important is missing

Epic!

Can't you see it? He's showing how well the SGS3 displays whites compared to the Xperia S and One X.

BarryH_GEG said:
Can't you see it? He's showing how well the SGS3 displays whites compared to the Xperia S and One X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can see big dots in whites

BarryH_GEG said:
Can't you see it? He's showing how well the SGS3 displays whites compared to the Xperia S and One X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Matrix style... there is no spoon!!

loll,i am sory guys in hurry i forgot to add the link
Its some kind of s3 fever
The link has been added.. ..

Here it is

pikulu said:
loll,i am sory guys in hurry i forgot to add the link
Its some kind of s3 fever
The link has been added.. ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
despite fever you have posted a much required article

Uh oh. The fanbois aren't going to like that.

BarryH_GEG said:
Uh oh. The fanbois aren't going to like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
time to start yet another war
the article itself is pretty conclusive. RGB always have the better density /.

bala_gamer said:
time to start yet another war
the article itself is pretty conclusive. RGB always have the better density /.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's interesting is that the One X comes with panels from two different vendors, Sharp and AUO. The AUO panel is the one that's appeared on all the reviewers test units. It's got far better contrast, more natural colors, and cooler whites. Some of the *****ing about the One X display is from people that have gotten Sharp panels which are noticably warmer. I'm sure Samsung screens all the panels on their reviewer units too so the comparisons are fair.
Here's how the two panels looked side-by-side on the Sensation.
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This image is the best we can get, look at the image below
The 1st comparison clearly shows how good is the RGB matrix, despite the red area showing too much dots in s3 the mobile that is captured in that picture has almost same details.
The 2n comparison shows how good is the real blacks in s3 and infact the text looks much crisper. The hox screen simply couldnt match the blacks of amoled.
Do note that this is not the resolution we will be using for daily usage, the resolution used is far from the regular usage
if anyone missed the below image i posted a few days back(extracted from mobile-review.com) it tells a different story
which one looks sharper? judge by yourself

bala_gamer said:
This image is the best we can get, look at the image below
The 1st comparison clearly shows how good is the RGB matrix, despite the red area showing too much dots in s3 the mobile that is captured in that picture has almost same details.
The 2n comparison shows how good is the real blacks in s3 and infact the text looks much crisper. The hox screen simply couldnt match the blacks of amoled.
Do note that this is not the resolution we will be using for daily usage, the resolution used is far from the regular usage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why a rgb striped display can easily beat a pentile diplay interms of resolution but interms of contrast,amoleds are THE king

BarryH_GEG said:
Here's how the two panels looked side-by-side on the Sensation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The warmer ones looks totally different, samsung sure will have similar problems .

I am a bit confused here...According to gsmarena test note was the brightest amoled but here phonearena states that s3 is the brightest
Or this is because of the gorila glass 2 ????

bala_gamer said:
which one looks sharper? judge by yourself
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which one looks more like the original image? That's what matters most. All the pencil pic shows is that the AMOLED displays are presenting the image differently than an LCD panel. That doesn't mean it's correct.
This video compares LCD2 to SAMOLED with mutiple subjects, at different depths, and in different lighting conditions. And each shot starts out by showing the original. It's a GN their comparing but the discussion is sharpness, not brightness, And with similar PPI the GN and SGS3's ability to display detail should be the same.

This is starting to get silly. I have seen image comparisons where i without doubt prefere the S3 over the One X. With this comparison it is the other way around.

Colors are washed on Nexus 4

Just received my Nexus 4 today and the color are definitely washed (not so popping) on the phone. I actually think they are sub-standard than other lcd screens. Anyone agree? Can a custom rom saturate the colors more? Is there a way to saturate the colors without a custom rom?

milkisgood123 said:
Just received my Nexus 4 today and the color are definitely washed (not so popping) on the phone. I actually think they are sub-standard than other lcd screens. Anyone agree? Can a custom rom saturate the colors more? Is there a way to saturate the colors without a custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't agree. I think the colors look great. Color reproduction is just more accurate. AMOLED colors pop because colors are oversaturated. It's unrealistic and I prefer the colors on an IPS display. In any case, you'll probably get used to it shortly.

pictures so that we can compare with other people who have the phone

milkisgood123 said:
Just received my Nexus 4 today and the color are definitely washed (not so popping) on the phone. I actually think they are sub-standard than other lcd screens. Anyone agree? Can a custom rom saturate the colors more? Is there a way to saturate the colors without a custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you have bad eyes

I've been dieing to get mine so I can compare to the Lumia 920 screen (which is absolutely gorgeous)

Yes Colors are washed out on Nexus 4 compared to Xperia S. And I'm not talking about Mobile Bravia Engine.

richteralan said:
Yes Colors are washed out on Nexus 4 compared to Xperia S. And I'm not talking about Mobile Bravia Engine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The colors on my device are not washed out what so ever. They seem to be pretty accurate, but not eye popping like amoled. If i try to view the phone at an angle, there is a yellow hue but that's it. Very happy with the screen

mchimney said:
The colors on my device are not washed out what so ever. They seem to be pretty accurate, but not eye popping like amoled. If i try to view the phone at an angle, there is a yellow hue but that's it. Very happy with the screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the Xperia S has just a LED-backlit LCD screen, not even IPS. I never liked AMOLED in any way.
Sony does have something that is superior to Korean companies.

The screen looks fine to me on my Nexus, although I find the one X's screen a tad bit better. No biggie tho
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

milkisgood123 said:
Just received my Nexus 4 today and the color are definitely washed (not so popping) on the phone. I actually think they are sub-standard than other lcd screens. Anyone agree? Can a custom rom saturate the colors more? Is there a way to saturate the colors without a custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your too use to Amoled displays bro, I thought the same thing at first, coming from a sgs 2 then 3.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

milkisgood123 said:
Just received my Nexus 4 today and the color are definitely washed (not so popping) on the phone. I actually think they are sub-standard than other lcd screens. Anyone agree? Can a custom rom saturate the colors more? Is there a way to saturate the colors without a custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't call washed out but colors on my Xperia TL look better. I checked videos and lot of pictures from smugmug and flickr. While I liked colors on Xperia better I thought Nexus displayed more accurate colors.

Here is a picture of app drawer. S3/N4/XperiaT
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c900712 said:
Here is a picture of app drawer. S3/N4/XperiaT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by the chrome icon. Thats how green red yellow suppose to look like. The dynamic and standard option on the galaxy s3 make the colors over saturated. So naturally. Your eyes are use to seeing stronger colors. But thats not how they are like in real life.
I do lots of editing and photography.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

Ha those darn Amoled eyes, Coming from S3 i thought the same, but my eyes adjusted. and I prefer the sharpness of ips

I find the nexus 4 display to be fantastic. Not a single complain.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

I've had nothing but amoled too and thought the same thing. You'll get used to it after a few days, now I like the display on my N4 better.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

OP is used to amoled. This panel is absolutely gorgeous.

I have a Dell Ultrasharp for work and use the same wallpaper from Jellybean, the colors are definitely undersaturated on the phone.
Realistic colors mean wide color gamut, which means being able to do both unsaturated and saturated. The phone cannot do saturated colors well, which means it has a narrow color gamut and only looks realistic when its not showing an image with high saturation in it.

Wait for these kernel devs cook something up like on the GNEX, edit the contrast and things will be popping!

Yeah I'm used too amoled also and noticed the difference, the colors seem very similar to the Nexus 7 which makes me wonder if it's a color profile or something that can be IMPROVED (ie not 'fixed') with software updates, mods and kernels.
After a few days though, I definitely noticed the difference in terms of usability.. this phone is much nicer to use than the S3 was, and I'm not automatically rushing to the night mode settings whenever possible.

[Q] pentile? what is it, why bad?

seems like a big issue for some people...whats wrong with it any? any video examples?
comparing my Thunderbolt to a S3, screen quality loooks waaaaaay better on S3 to me

huh ..... its not pentile
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yahyoh said:
huh ..... its not pentile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's diamond matrix.

HandsomeAssDomo said:
it's diamond matrix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which means?

huh? according to engadget it is pentile..
i just saw threads elsewhere saying people are pissed at that and im wondering why?
Samsung's staying the course with the overall design language, though it's expanded the screen size to five inches -- now powered by a Full HD Super AMOLED display with 441 ppi (and yes, it's still PenTile).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/14/samsung-galaxy-s-4-preview/

djcyph said:
huh? according to engadget it is pentile..
i just saw threads elsewhere saying people are pissed at that and im wondering why?
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/14/samsung-galaxy-s-4-preview/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Engadget seems engaged in a battle against Samsung just look at their bashing post.
Swyped from another galaxy

Even if it was pentile u couldn't notice at that resolution
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​

skivnit said:
Engadget seems engaged in a battle against Samsung just look at their bashing post.
Swyped from another galaxy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good::good:
---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------
TingTingin said:
Even if it was pentile u couldn't notice at that resolution
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but its not
it using diamond arrangement
and no body no if it's better than the weird RGB on the Note2 or brighter ​

Lol
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​

i found this
A method of determining implied sample areas for each data point of each color in a source pixel data specified in a first sub-pixel format is used for sub-pixel rendering an image on a display specified in a second sub-pixel format. Each of the first and second sub-pixel formats comprises a plurality of colored sub-pixels. The method comprises determining a geometric center of each colored sub-pixel of the first format to define a sampling point; and defining each implied sample area by forming lines that are substantially equidistant between the sampling point of one colored sub-pixel and the sampling point of another neighboring same color colored sub-pixel. A similar technique may be used for determining resample areas for computing color values for rendering an image specified in a first sub-pixel format on a display substantially comprising a plurality of colored sub-pixels arranged in a second sub-pixel format.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.strutpatent.com/patent/0...to-another-sub-pixel-data-format#!prettyPhoto

thanks guys...the people at AC are crying thats it pentile and i was just wondering why!
getting it no mater what...like i said, huge upgrade from Thunderbolt for me

djcyph said:
huh? according to engadget it is pentile..
i just saw threads elsewhere saying people are pissed at that and im wondering why?
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/14/samsung-galaxy-s-4-preview/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's not talk about engadget. Their integrity and competence is zero. They are always at war with samsung. I can give you a big list of proofs, but the discussion will just go OT.

Plain and simple, pentile is nowhere as good as standard RGB. No matter how you try to twist it.

If you manage to notice the difference between pentile and rgb on a dpi of 440 (440 dots per inch!), you should call the guinness book of records, because it means your sight is above human.
96 dpi is the average 1080p computer monitor / TV
150 dpi is normal top quality print
300 dpi is the limit visible by the human eye
440 dpi is overkill... pentile or not pentile... irrelevant

americasteam said:
Plain and simple, pentile is nowhere as good as standard RGB. No matter how you try to twist it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It's why I bought a One X over the SGS3. But since, starting with the N2, Samsung's moved away from it what's to be discussed? How bad the SGS3 and Galaxy Nexus were or how bad the SGS4 could have been? When GSMArena does their standardized testing we'll know how good the display is in color reproduction, brightness, and white balance. You can't measure anything on a trade show floor except whether a display looks good or doesn't.

Are people really complaining about pentile at 440 PPI? Are you ****ing kidding me? Drop the crack pipe and wake up.

i want to ask about it's screen if it strong enough,, or as s3 easy to broke :crying::crying:

It is Pentile (RGBG .. Red Green Blue Green) .. take any 2x2 sub-pixel square and you get your pixel .. it is pentile .. just rotated 45° and different shape .. still pentile .. and it is a horrible technology

palestine2020 said:
i want to ask about it's screen if it strong enough,, or as s3 easy to broke :crying::crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ask CORNING

People love to cry over anything before knowing the facts, I mean your eyes have to be like a ****ing microscope to see the difference at this point.
To me though OLED is better than LCD and I can never go back now thanx to something we can actually see with the naked eye and that's the blacks are grey on LCDs, especially at night.