I was thinking, can't google just release a open-sourced release that can be used for ALL android phones? I understand why Samsung would want its Touchwiz in it, and tmobile would want their apps in the phone, but if Google started doing that, would it work? Like they put out a few versions of the next Android, and it just starts working? The different versions could be that theres one for small screens, bigger screens etc.
I'm just thinking, couldn't they just eliminate fragmentation with that?
What about drivers for the phone? Those are closed sourced most of the time, They release them for the nexus though.
Google can definitely release the rom, or the aosp as they do but can't be fully functional with drivers. Like cm7 early on for our phone but I believe they reversed engineered the drivers
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
xriderx66 said:
I was thinking, can't google just release a open-sourced release that can be used for ALL android phones? I understand why Samsung would want its Touchwiz in it, and tmobile would want their apps in the phone, but if Google started doing that, would it work? Like they put out a few versions of the next Android, and it just starts working? The different versions could be that theres one for small screens, bigger screens etc.
I'm just thinking, couldn't they just eliminate fragmentation with that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They already do.
That's what AOSP is.
I agree, Google should handle OS updates the same way Windows/Linux operate. Google should release the OS with compatible drivers for all devices.
As long as your phone has the specs to run the latest OS fast enough, great!
SamsungVibrant said:
I agree, Google should handle OS updates the same way Windows/Linux operate. Google should release the OS with compatible drivers for all devices.
As long as your phone has the specs to run the latest OS fast enough, great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since when has Linux or Windows come with all the drivers? Have you ever done a fresh install of Windows or Linux before?
This is known as Fragmentation.
You have many choices/options of hardware but it's up to manufactures & carriers to provide compatible drivers.
Hence, iPhone & Nexus phones are so stable. I think Samsung is skating on thin ice by offering their Galaxy S to too many carriers with too many variables.
My next phone will be Nexus Prime/Galaxy Nexus!!!!
Sigh
I realize that everyone has differing opinions on this, but this isn't "fragmentation" in the same manner that Google refers to "fragmentation". I'm not picking, but it's the most misused phrase in the Android world. Fragmentation isn't about different devices with different drivers and individual frameworks like TouchWiz, Sense and Motoblur. Fragmentation is about companies doing things like installing Android on hardware that doesn't meet minimum specs (yes, Google has minimum/recommended hardware specifications), and running devices that are cut off from the Market altogether.
The reason why that's called "fragmentation" is because it's a poor representation of Android. It may be open source, but it's still being used in a manner not intended.
But then people would just expect their"old"phones to do new things. Why upgrade software when Tmobile wants you to buy new hardware.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
reuthermonkey said:
Since when has Linux or Windows come with all the drivers? Have you ever done a fresh install of Windows or Linux before?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I've done a fresh install of win 7 and Kubuntu, and both find all the drivers I need flawlessly. Took Kubuntu/Ubuntu a while to be as easy as windows, but it's there now.
Really don't know what you meant either, Windows 7 goes and finds all the drivers you need if it doesn't already have a compatible one. It is a flawless easy install.
SamsungVibrant said:
Yes I've done a fresh install of win 7 and Kubuntu, and both find all the drivers I need flawlessly. Took Kubuntu/Ubuntu a while to be as easy as windows, but it's there now.
Really don't know what you meant either, Windows 7 goes and finds all the drivers you need if it doesn't already have a compatible one. It is a flawless easy install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The key words are "find drivers." Windows automatically finds what driver you need by downloading them from the net. Google would have to create a program that lets you update while getting required drivers..
I think that why ima go with the Nexus Prime. Its basically a GS2 but you get the android updates (I think)
dunkerya said:
What about drivers for the phone? Those are closed sourced most of the time, They release them for the nexus though.
Google can definitely release the rom, or the aosp as they do but can't be fully functional with drivers. Like cm7 early on for our phone but I believe they reversed engineered the drivers
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
False. Google gets the device first, loads Android on it the way they would like it loaded, drivers and all, and then hands it back to the manufacturer. The manufacturer then changes the source as they choose.
They make drivers for parts they didn't manufacturer? That makes no sense.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
dunkerya said:
They make drivers for parts they didn't manufacturer? That makes no sense.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know but it wouldn't be too hard to get drivers from part/chip manufacturers.
Doesn't Microsoft make drivers to parts they didn't manufacturer?
SamsungVibrant said:
I don't know but it wouldn't be too hard to get drivers from part/chip manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently it is. See: Vibrant GPS.
Doesn't Microsoft make drivers to parts they didn't manufacturer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. There are generic drivers based upon standards, like NDIS, VGA, etc... that are freely available to distribute and provide very basic functionality. Non-standards drivers (that is, most drivers used since about 1994) are proprietary and must be obtained from the manufacturer.
Or do you not recall having to go out and search for hours to find the right drivers for windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, and Me (uggh)? Ever use linux before the likes of apt-get/yum and automated gui installs? Install printers over parallel ports? Serial mice?
I'm gonna guess no.
reuthermonkey said:
Apparently it is. See: Vibrant GPS.
No. There are generic drivers based upon standards, like NDIS, VGA, etc... that are freely available to distribute and provide very basic functionality. Non-standards drivers (that is, most drivers used since about 1994) are proprietary and must be obtained from the manufacturer.
Or do you not recall having to go out and search for hours to find the right drivers for windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, and Me (uggh)? Ever use linux before the likes of apt-get/yum and automated gui installs? Install printers over parallel ports? Serial mice?
I'm gonna guess no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
god thats a pain in the ass.
xriderx66 said:
god thats a pain in the ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not miss those days. Not a single bit.
reuthermonkey said:
Apparently it is. See: Vibrant GPS.
No. There are generic drivers based upon standards, like NDIS, VGA, etc... that are freely available to distribute and provide very basic functionality. Non-standards drivers (that is, most drivers used since about 1994) are proprietary and must be obtained from the manufacturer.
Or do you not recall having to go out and search for hours to find the right drivers for windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, and Me (uggh)? Ever use linux before the likes of apt-get/yum and automated gui installs? Install printers over parallel ports? Serial mice?
I'm gonna guess no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares about windows 95, it's almost 2012 and Win 7 has practically all the compatible drivers you need upon install, and if it doesn't it searches and finds it for you. Not to mention windows update notifies you of new updated drivers also.
There is no reason Google can't direct Android in the same direction to make everything easier. They just have to work out deals probably with hardware/chip manufacturers for drivers or something. I think it would also help end fragmentation if Google just handled the OS release and updates and took the control away from phone manufacturers and carriers.
SamsungVibrant said:
Who cares about windows 95, it's almost 2012 and Win 7 has practically all the compatible drivers you need upon install, and if it doesn't it searches and finds it for you. Not to mention windows update notifies you of new updated drivers also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that answers that.
It helps to know a tiny bit of history to understand why things are the way they are. How old are you? 14?
There is no reason Google can't direct Android in the same direction to make everything easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except for that whole "open source" thing.
They just have to work out deals probably with hardware/chip manufacturers for drivers or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"or something" being the important part here. How, exactly is google going to "work out deals" with driver manufacturers, when they don't have any control over what hardware each phone uses? Moreover, unlike Android (which is distributed under the GPL) drivers are proprietary and don't fall under the same GPL license. Different driver manufacturers may have different licensing models with different handset makers as well. What microsoft does is quite different. But since you don't know anything about the history, I'm really not going to waste my time detailing Microsoft's approach, or the fact that it took them about 20 years to get there.
I think it would also help end fragmentation if Google just handled the OS release and updates and took the control away from phone manufacturers and carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would end fragmentation a whole lot, because phone manufacturers and carriers would no longer sell Android devices, and we'd go back to iOS and Blackberry (or WP7). Chances are, manufacturer profit margins would go up if they did that, since there'd be less competition, and less room for hardware innovation too. That sure would be easier though.
A simple fix
a simple fix to this whole fragmentation problem would be:
1. Android Release all OS Updates
2. Each device manufacturer uploads individual device drivers to google just like github maintainers take care of each device like cyanogenmod
3. Service Providers like T-Mobile/AT&T/Verizon could issue updates and customizations to the market. Just like T-Mobile does, they have their own T-Mobile Market Section. This would allow them to add customizations to the launcher, and certain apps. Google could have an Agreement with each provider that when your phone updates, it could either WGet updates, or have the market auto download and install them.
This is a simple fix. Stupid Simple, because it would make all manufacturers device maintainers, updates are central organized, and everyone can get their updates, manually or automatically.
Thank you reuthermonkey.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Related
Hi !
Does anyone actually know if android can be installed / flashed on current devices ? Or it's only for certain devices that come with it preinstalled ?
Please don't post things like: "i would love it if it did" or "omg, android is great"...
I'm looking for an answer from someone who actually knows or someone who knows exactly how this stuff works...
Thanks
PS: Menneisyys, i hope you'll post something
I don't think that you'll be getting your answer any time soon as nobody has seen the thing yet.
But i would speculate that as HTC is one of the partners, it might be possible. HTC probably wont reinvent their phones again for the android.
Not a programmer...
but i was listening to leo laport yesterday and it seems that ggls world domination strategy would be all including. so it seems very likely that they would allow some version of it for use on other phones.
http://techguylabs.com/radio/ShowNotes/Show403#toc5
At this point, since there there is no release yet and nobody has/can play with it, it's probably hard to say. However, knowing Google, there is a good possibility they will come out with an app that allows you to use your current phone (speculation).
I heard that Android based on some Java-sintacsys - maybe it is good for us?
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
leetsauce said:
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I grabbed the SDk and got a basic hello world up and running. From what the video said and what I can glean from various sites. The Android OS is designed to run on existing hardware. I would imagine that includes HTC machines. Its a complete OS though not an app so I would imagine you have to blow away WM6 and put android on in order to take advantage of its functionality. The actual coding appears to be extremely easy.
I can see google or the community releasing a "shell" of Android.
The more people with it the more money for them. If you watched the video they are really trying to push the location based services from GPS, cell towers, IP address... can anyone say more cash for ads.
I wouldn't mind having it on WM and its open source so there a good chance we will see it.
Alpine would be perfect for Android
Alpine would be a perfect phone if recycled with android !!
Good processor, lots of mem and a big screen for touch sensasions!!
Is it a dream or could that become reality?
Is Android compatible with HTC Touch-style hardware or does it require the numberpad?
There is a linux-2.6.23-android-m3-rc20.tar.gz kernel file on the android google code project site, there is also ADB utility - Android Debug Bridge (comes with SDK), it has an option of flashing a device (over usb) or an emulator (which is also included in the package)...the question is how to compile that kernel and make it run on our HTCs, and what kindof boot loader does it require? Maybe guys from Xanadux know better
It's also interesting how JAVA is being used after becoming open source, it appears that android is mostly independent from the JAVA API, the only relevance I found was only basic stuff like java.util, java.io and etc (included in the android.jar)...
i think that android will work on htc devices because pretty much they are the ones that will be releasing the first devices preloaded with android and i think that white device was made from htc. I see a potential here so i ask some one to make a thread on porting android to any or a specific device. good luck and may the force be with you.
ps. i hope its a htc wizard
I'd say we'd be waiting to see the HDK come out before we can put it on our own devices, can't wait though.
A dream
The Android SDK includes an emulator, see here http://www.ohadev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15
Quote: "It seems that the main binary is emulator; this includes a qemu-0.8.2, which runs (in system mode) the ARM kernel image at lib/images/kernel-qemu.
Two more images are mounted from lib/images : the system.img (which appears to be the rootfs, and userdata.img, which gets replicated (and mounted from there) at $HOME/.android/userdata.img."
This guy (http://mamaich.uni.cc/fr_pocket.htm) got Qemu compiled for ARM, buggy/crashing, no visible update for several years, see also here http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/in...e_to_running_ms_dos_8_12&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Question: Anyone have any more recent news/experiences about Qemu on ARM/HTC?
So, theoretically one could try running the Android Kernel image from the SDK emulator on Qemu on PocketPC.
Even if it works (highly unlikely), this megasandwich AndroidImage->Qemu->PocketPC would probably be fantastically slow, with dodgy/absent I/O support.
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Did not someone from google mentioned at the day of the release that android will run on any ARM9 based device?
dirac said:
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
cr2 said:
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
prodinho said:
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some doubts that the (future) drivers will be released as free software, and not some binary blobs like nvidia, ati and m-systems did it in the past.
Binary linux kernel drivers are evil
There won't be ports to say, the Motorola Xoom or the HP TouchPad. Let me explain:
1. In it's current state, Windows 8 doesn't support ARM architecture, although it will later, so I suppose this is only a semi-valid point.
2. and 3. Windows 8 isn't open source, so any ports would be illegal and without source, it's basically impossible.
Please don't fill this subsection with questions concerning if it'll ever come to your tablet/phone/etc., because it won't.
your right,I almost forgot about legal stuff! +1 for pointing this out!
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4811/windows-8-tablets-running-on-ti-qualcomm-nvidia-amd-intel-silicon
???????
i guess we can be confident that 1. will happen
NikolaiT said:
There won't be ports to say, the Motorola Xoom or the HP TouchPad. Let me explain:
1. In it's current state, Windows 8 doesn't support ARM architecture, although it will later, so I suppose this is only a semi-valid point.
2. and 3. Windows 8 isn't open source, so any ports would be illegal and without source, it's basically impossible.
Please don't fill this subsection with questions concerning if it'll ever come to your tablet/phone/etc., because it won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft does have Windows 8 running on ARM, the only thing they haven't done is release a dev build. We'll either get it at a later date or we'll have to wait for the beta.
NikolaiT said:
There won't be ports to say, the Motorola Xoom or the HP TouchPad. Let me explain:
1. In it's current state, Windows 8 doesn't support ARM architecture, although it will later, so I suppose this is only a semi-valid point.
2. and 3. Windows 8 isn't open source, so any ports would be illegal and without source, it's basically impossible.
Please don't fill this subsection with questions concerning if it'll ever come to your tablet/phone/etc., because it won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not being open source didn't stop the HTC HD2 from recieving Windows Phone 7
Saljen said:
Not being open source didn't stop the HTC HD2 from recieving Windows Phone 7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mobile OSes are less work than a full fledged operating system, plus, you need to consider legality.
Nitro_123 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4811/windows-8-tablets-running-on-ti-qualcomm-nvidia-amd-intel-silicon
???????
i guess we can be confident that 1. will happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While it will support ARM, I'd say it's doubtful that it would be released on a disk that you could just load onto your existing device, it will probably only come preloaded on devices by OEMs.
Saljen said:
Not being open source didn't stop the HTC HD2 from recieving Windows Phone 7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Traditionally MS haven't been worried about piracy of their mobile OS's. Their mobile OS efforts have mainly been about keeping people in the Windows eco-system, and to a much lesser degree selling licenses for CE to OEMs making embedded devices. In most cases of mobile OS roms being posted, they've just been updated/enhanced roms for existing Windows mobile devices and so haven't really cost sales and have possibly enhanced the ecosystem.
They're generally much much more concerned about piracy of their main OS. It remains to be seen how they will react to people trying port the ARM version of Windows 8, but they could easily react as strongly as they would for a normal x86 windows.
NikolaiT said:
Mobile OSes are less work than a full fledged operating system, plus, you need to consider legality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's never stopped developers from porting anything before...
I think at this point the largest hurdle is getting a build from an ARM dump. And drivers...can't forget about drivers.
NikolaiT said:
Mobile OSes are less work than a full fledged operating system, plus, you need to consider legality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would the legality be an issue? As long as you have a valid licence and key, when it officially becomes for sale, wouldn't it be ok?
dhiral.v said:
Why would the legality be an issue? As long as you have a valid licence and key, when it officially becomes for sale, wouldn't it be ok?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It most likely won't.
ugothakd said:
It most likely won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not?
If you've paid for the license, I am free to put it on which ever device I own be it my laptop, desktop or tablet.
dhiral.v said:
Why not?
If you've paid for the license, I am free to put it on which ever device I own be it my laptop, desktop or tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean the arm copy...it'll most likely never be sold as a seperate product. Just built in
1. WinMo wasn’t open source either. Unlike WinMo, Windows licenses can be purchased.
2. Considering the fact that Intel and Google are now working together, the likelihood of cross compatible hardware specs are high for both Arm and Intel chips
3. This OS if it stays in close to current form will be a sort of hybrid of mobile/desktop OS. The mobile side will create a need for sideloaded apps, tweaks, reg hacks etc.
4. It is almost certain that Windows Phone will converge with this os down the line and I would argue that this forum has potential to be the most used forum of the site so the earlier the devs get started the better!
TechJunkiesCA said:
4. It is almost certain that Windows Phone will converge with this os down the line and I would argue that this forum has potential to be the most used forum of the site so the earlier the devs get started the better!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This porting work will indeed happen. Just not on this forum aparently/unfortunately. Discussions about illegal software is a far cry from hosting illegal software. Developers often experiment with breaking laws for learning about a system. exe - tutorials about changing esn # with specific notes that you should not do it. It's just an experiment.
My question is it against the rules to discuss or link to other sites that house these ports? It used to be at least overlooked. See example below and there are countless others in the older stuff.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=362344&page=3
In the past XDA was much more loose about this type of stuff and was my first place to look for the dream goal of putting a desktop class OS on a PDA.
ugothakd said:
It most likely won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But do you honestly think anyone will care much about it?
Take Mac OS X for instance. It clearly states in the EULA that installing the software on unapproved/non-Mac hardware are illegal, and yet there are tons of people with dedicated forums hacking away at it to make it run on various PC hardwares, and still ongoing for years.
eXecuter.bin said:
But do you honestly think anyone will care much about it?
Take Mac OS X for instance. It clearly states in the EULA that installing the software on unapproved/non-Mac hardware are illegal, and yet there are tons of people with dedicated forums hacking away at it to make it run on various PC hardwares, and still ongoing for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point...people will try. But the bootloaders are most likely different. Maybe devices with hacked bootloaders (captivate) would be possible.
sent from my epic 4g. with the key skips.
You are 100% right NikolaiT...
If you own a valid license it can't be illegal anyways be it ARM version or not.
We'll see how microsoft releases the product and how many different versions there are in what form.
Indeed, i think we need to leave the legalities aside, and use the assumption of....
You have your Legal and valid licence key, this is how you can get it working on x y and Z
Of course, if it is only Sold as OEM then legally you dont have leg to stand on, OEM copies are for the sole use on the hardware in which is was purchased with, i think the licence says it allows a number of hardware upgrades but you are not intitled to rip it off one PC and dump it on another one. (assuming its the same as a Win 7 Licence), yes people do do it, but that doesnt make it legal or condonable, so if thats the case the XDA couldnt allow anything to do with it
But lets say it can be brought as a retail package, then there is nothing to stop us from attempting to install it on anything we like, infact it may even be easier than we think given that MS usually gives a shed load of drivers, the tricky bit will be getting the bootloaders to allow it.
eXecuter.bin said:
But do you honestly think anyone will care much about it?
Take Mac OS X for instance. It clearly states in the EULA that installing the software on unapproved/non-Mac hardware are illegal, and yet there are tons of people with dedicated forums hacking away at it to make it run on various PC hardwares, and still ongoing for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forbidden, not illegal. The EULA doesn't really have any legal basis whatsoever. Apple can deny you support on your product if you break the EULA though.
I don't want this to become a discussion of which OS is better, but does anyone think there will be a windows 8 install available for the A500? I read that windows 8 will support arm. Just curious.
Sent from my A501 using Tapatalk
No, the drivers aren't there for it, but they may release an upgrade for the w500 which was acers windows version of out tablet. It had different hardware specs than the a500.
Tegra 3 tablets will supposedly run Windows 8 (ARM Edition).
youtube.com/watch?v=HWOOefm_rwo
Tegra 3 tablets designed for windows will run windows 8, tegra 3 tablets designed for android won't. That is the same as the tegra 2 tablets, if you bought a Acer W500 it came with windows and you can't upgrade it to android because the driver support isn't there. The tablets came with different parts inside. Without the drivers your out of luck.
cruise350 said:
Tegra 3 tablets designed for windows will run windows 8, tegra 3 tablets designed for android won't. That is the same as the tegra 2 tablets, if you bought a Acer W500 it came with windows and you can't upgrade it to android because the driver support isn't there. The tablets came with different parts inside. Without the drivers your out of luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cannot compare to W500: W500 isn't a Tegra 2 tablet.
Windows 8 ARM (WHERE ARE YOU)
This question has been asked and talked about over and over again...
I do think it all depends on the windows 8 arm version.. myself because of the way linux is partitioned. The way our device is partitioned Size of boot / system partitions and OF course the protected boot loader.. IT will take some very extreme hacks to just get it installed .then there is the whole drive thing people are talking about.Thou many tegra devices shares alot of hardware. and there is a huge chance that this device could have the same hardware as in camera bluetooth gps and so on as the w500. im almost Positive its the same with the camera and bluetooth . as i have a acer and a gateway notebook that share these same common hardware chip type devices the chinon (i think is proper spelling) for cam . the iconia has this cam chip as well .
if you factor all of this together.. Someone would really have to want it VERY BAD.. or microsoft will have to do alot of testing with ACER .
the short answer is .. FLIP A COIN WILL Bring just as good answeres until its out in beta..
An answer from Acer technical support
I ask gently to the technical support if Windows 8 Will be ported to the Iconia Tab A501 and the answer was really short ...
NO
So, if some people work on it to build one for us, we will have it. Other else, too bad
ArtSooby said:
I ask gently to the technical support if Windows 8 Will be ported to the Iconia Tab A501 and the answer was really short ...
NO
So, if some people work on it to build one for us, we will have it. Other else, too bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you. Thirdly it'll be very hard to even get admin access because Win8ARM doesn't allow sideloading; all and every single application must come from the Windows Store. No, you cannot run or install stuff from USB or Flash or network shares. All these things considering it'll be a wonder if someone can even copy the ROM successfully, let alone make it run on a device which doesn't have Secure Boot.
Short answer: NO, A500 WILL NOT GET WIN8.
A slight taste of the Near future .
WereCatf said:
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you. Thirdly it'll be very hard to even get admin access because Win8ARM doesn't allow sideloading; all and every single application must come from the Windows Store. No, you cannot run or install stuff from USB or Flash or network shares. All these things considering it'll be a wonder if someone can even copy the ROM successfully, let alone make it run on a device which doesn't have Secure Boot.
Short answer: NO, A500 WILL NOT GET WIN8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OVER The past 10 years i have been saying. been protesting. that eventually that if this locked device and embedded software is not stopped with laws .All electronic devices will end up with a very short end of life from manufacturers. Well folks its here. If Microsoft does the above. Well even they will push minor but much needed updates like security fixes on old devices devices and make them OBSOLETE much sooner by not supporting new much needed technology to keep devices viable..
This by the way Microsoft has been two faced from MS . there statement is ( THe manufacture has a choice rather to lock a device or not but they believe the end use should have a right to choose what os to run on there device. They say in this statement they are confident everyone will choose ms software ) This statement i disagree with . the only way to protect our right to have unlocked devices is to take it to the COURTS. But with all the recent activity about piracy this is a fight that will Be very hard and a long battle. EMBEDED SYSTEMS IS THE FUTURE AND WILL COST CUTTING EDGE CONSUMERS BILLIONS. Someone very good with web development start a TRUE WEBSITE TO PROTEST THIS.. many will join in and make this fight start now before its to late..
YES The above sounds like a conspiracy just do some research then post your opinion . Sorry op of this is off topic but its kinda related..
erica_renee said:
there statement is ( THe manufacture has a choice rather to lock a device or not but they believe the end use should have a right to choose what os to run on there device.
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Actually, you're slightly incorrect there; Microsoft says that only about PCs, ie. PCs must have Secure Boot enabled, but the manufacturer can decide whether or not to allow end-users to disable that. But on ARM devices Secure Boot MUST be enabled and there must be absolutely no way for end-users to disable that or the manufacturer won't be allowed to sell Windows 8.
WereCatf said:
Actually, you're slightly incorrect there; Microsoft says that only about PCs, ie. PCs must have Secure Boot enabled, but the manufacturer can decide whether or not to allow end-users to disable that. But on ARM devices Secure Boot MUST be enabled and there must be absolutely no way for end-users to disable that or the manufacturer won't be allowed to sell Windows 8.
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YES you are Totally correct. Sorry .. . either way Its bad news for the consumer.Giving manufactures this ability
Microsoft had Windows 7 working on ARM tablets 2 years ago. They are obviously looking at this potential market.
WereCatf said:
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you.
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while I don't doubt the A50x will not see Win8, I do have to say... What Microsoft WANTS and what we the users DO seldom go hand in hand
Nope
I can't understand why people even think that this could be possible? the ONLY chance you'd see WinRT running on A500 is that m$ used it as a development platform...like HTC HD2 got wp7. Also, you need someone inside to leak the test OS....
Porting an ARM OS it's all about proper drivers, considering the ARM version and SOC design are somehow on the same gen. Nobody is insane enough to try and port a CLOSED OS. Even if it wasn't closed tight, porting and tweaking drivers is a hell of a job...just look at Android ( a Linux based, open source OS), how hard is to get rid of bugs because manufacturers like to keep the drivers closed source.
Also, it is imperative for MS,in order to get a chance in tablet market, to have a close-to- flawless OS,just like IoS, where the bugs are scarce. getting this job done requires at least two big choices to be made. You can only do that by completely opening the whole OS and hardware, therefore rely on a full pool of devs< nobody's choice> or you can do it by having clearly drawn/ restricted hardware devices, like WP7 phones and IOS devices.
I don't believe in locked down BLs, but I see no way that an Android native device will ever run WinRT.
It will of course happen, but it will take tremendous work to do. This always happens to an allegedly locked down OS... case in point- Hackintoshs where people install OSX onto a PC. People were even putting Android onto old WinMo handsets.
But you inevitably end up with a device that doesn't work as well as the original. Drivers were mentioned, plus there's being off the update/patch path, and plain & simple bugs that always crop up.
tl;dr: Yes, expect it. No, it won't work well.
Hey guys,
Windows 8 Developer Preview has been out for a while, and I really like what it offers... It has both the Windows 7 Phone layout for your start menu (sorta, I can't really explain it, you just have to try it to understand!), and a full windows framework and desktop to run applications. Since it's based off 7, it has a light footprint, and it works not only on x86 & x64, but armv7l aswell.
So I thought: At one time I did something to use my windows drivers on linux... (There wasn't a wifi driver, so I searched around and found a util that could let me do it) So why couldn't someone do it the other way around, for the Atrix? It would be like having Full windows on your phone but scaled down to match screen size, and then when you place it on the webtop, and voila! you get full scaled Windows 8...
I'm not saying that I can do it, but I'm just throwing the idea out there, for those of you who tried 8, you would get what I mean by the start page and full desktop thing, others just read about it!
No. One of the WOA requirements to boot is a locked AND signed bootloader, also there are NO plans to distribute WOA licenses outside of OEMs.
littleemp said:
No. One of the WOA requirements to boot is a locked AND signed bootloader, also there are NO plans to distribute WOA licenses outside of OEMs.
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Yea I read an article on that like 5 minutes before you posted it. There don't have to be plans to release it. At some point its gonna get leaked, and as soon as that happens, devs who have the time and need for 8 will work in it...
That or have you ever tried to install mac os x on a pc? Yea it works they made some
kind of alt bootloader that will load mac bypassing all the requirements... That might happen to android devices....
Alaq said:
Yea I read an article on that like 5 minutes before you posted it. There don't have to be plans to release it. At some point its gonna get leaked, and as soon as that happens, devs who have the time and need for 8 will work in it...
That or have you ever tried to install mac os x on a pc? Yea it works they made some
kind of alt bootloader that will load mac bypassing all the requirements... That might happen to android devices....
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Assuming someone manages to get around the technical hurdles, it will still be something akin to piracy to freely distribute WOA without microsoft's consent. This has been discussed a thousand times on different tablet forums and it's the same conclusion everytime, Microsoft has put a bunch of failsafes to stifle development on their own platform let alone porting to others. WOA is going to be much closer to iOS than Windows 7 as far as distribution goes.
The dev preview is for x86 and x86_64 architecture. An ARM build hasn't been released, so there's you're first problem.
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xiontinsu said:
The dev preview is for x86 and x86_64 architecture. An ARM build hasn't been released, so there's you're first problem.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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An ARM build won't be released... That's the problem...
Is it possible? I'd like to have it on my galaxy tab 7.7
I'm sure it would be possible.. For Microsoft.
Windows is a closed source operating system, meaning there can never be a direct port to your device. The closest someone could do is perhaps a bootloader that would allow it to run but you would still have other problems like drivers.
Not to mention the required boot security features that Windows 8 is rumored to have on the ARM version.
Sent from my LS670 using XDA
Remember Microsoft said that windows 7 would not ever have a successful license hack. that happened and quite quickly at that. Give it time and the devs, specifically the black hatters, will get the security opened and then we'll have some very interesting ports.
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Awesome!
Eun-Hjzjined said:
Remember Microsoft said that windows 7 would not ever have a successful license hack. that happened and quite quickly at that. Give it time and the devs, specifically the black hatters, will get the security opened and then we'll have some very interesting ports.
Sent from my SGH-I717R using xda premium
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I understand that but a license hack is a whole different monster. This is taking an operating system that theoretically doesn't support the OP's device and making it work. Even if it can be made to boot, we'd still need input drivers, display drivers for it's GPU, etc.
Maybe possible if the ARM version uses a WinCE style BSP, but that's speculation I suppose.
Sent from my LS670 using XDA
I suppose that they will use something similar to what they use on wp7 devices. And in that case we could see derivatives of those drivers running under arm-win8
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your biggest problem is drivers, assuming you get around the security and get it installed, you will need drivers, and traditionally, OEM built devices don't always have openly available drivers to every platform Esp, ARM devices
you would need to hope that Win RT uses some of the same hardware on its own devices, enabling us to take the drivers from those devices and install them on your own ex android device.
and given that Win RT isn't a user installable OS your looking at having to build images with the drivers available, flash it, and hope that it works!
to be honest, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Well, that is how WinCE/Embedded works and look how well it can be "ported" (if that can be said as the right word for this.) around.
A small hypothetical situation:
Someone hacks out drivers for the Galaxy Tab's components and just happens to release a version compatible with WinRT-ARM, That's fine. Someone with the WinRT Platform Builder creates an image targeting the Galaxy Tab, even better. But the problem would be getting the Galaxy Tab to actually boot something that isn't recognized by the device's inbuilt bootloader (Theoretically this could be bypassed like the Android phones that can dual-boot WM7). Only then, after you get a bootloader to actually bootstrap and start the image created will you be able to run "Windows 8 for ARM" on a Galaxy Tab.
The above situation is the only, only possible way you'd be able to get it to work.
Also, It seems even then it wouldn't work
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1466400&page=2
opps screwed up
Sent from my HD2 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
IHATEHIPSTERS said:
Is it possible? I'd like to have it on my galaxy tab 7.7
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Rumor is WOA (windows on arm) will require efi (locked boot loader).
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i am also a 7.7 user. very disappointed with honeycomb's performance so far i would love to see win8 here
what about missing windows button? it is very necessary in metro
Use custom lancher with moded windos 8
IF I HELPED PRESS THE THANKS BUTOM OR DONATE ME IN ORDER TO BUY A NEW PHONE AND CONTINUE THE DEV.
Pator57 said:
Use custom lancher with moded windos 8
IF I HELPED PRESS THE THANKS BUTOM OR DONATE ME IN ORDER TO BUY A NEW PHONE AND CONTINUE THE DEV.
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The OP wants to install Windows 8 on his tablet, not a custom launcher. Although if you want the metro experience, a Launcher like Launcher7 or such would probably be the best choice.
skategeezer said:
Rumor is WOA (windows on arm) will require efi (locked boot loader).
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Microsoft stopped calling it WOA a while back, they now call it WinRT.
And EFI (or UEFI to be precise) doesn't imply boot signature checking, rather it is a next generation bootstrap that replaces the long dated PC BIOS with many improvements. My current PC does an EFI boot, and there is no signature checking involved.
Rather, in order to have signature checking, EFI is a requirement. (Signature checking is also a requirement to run the x86 version of Windows 8 OEM channel license, by the way.)
But that is only one among many problems (and not the hardest one, BTW) that will prevent you from running WinRT on non Microsoft approved ARM systems. The biggest problem will be creating a driver set that is compatible with the hardware.
It's going to be hard to find developers who will take on such a project since not only is it a huge time investment, but it's liable to get you sued by Microsoft.
Anything can be hacked given time and patience, but Win RT will be a tough nut to crack. You will have to have to find an exploit to unlock/replace the bootloader and likely write custom firmware. Given what a b!#@h the Lumia 900 has been to unlock, it may be a long time.
The good news is that Windows 8 (at least full Win 8) is moving to a class driver model which makes the likelihood of cross device compatibility much more likely than in the past. Base drivers could very well be standard across the respective ARM families and OEMs are likely to reprovision standard chassis designs for both Windows RT and ICS (much like WP7, a la Samsung Galaxy and Focus).
There are still too many questions to accurately guess, but we'll know more soon.