Database Users

What's best way r00t for new Evo

Well I've read through the wiki and I'm still lost... what's the best way to root a new Evo for 004 hardware? I've been told Unrevoked is good but I've also read threads that it doesn't work with 004. Any help would be greatly appreciated...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I heard they updated unrevoked to root 004.
Search the dev section. You will find the root guide.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=838448
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=787304
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

here is what I used.. and it will work for 004.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=829045
it is not the easiest way.. but it will teach you want you are doing at each step and why.
uses unrevoked and amon_ra
these are solid.. and will be great for future mods.

Unrevoke is the easy way off rooting, but make sure to have hboot drivers install( windows only) before rooting
sent from my evil evo!!

No worries
I use Unrevoked all the time and it works flawlessly on Hardware 2 through 4 phones. Just make sure you download the latest version at:
http://unrevoked.com/#evo
Other methods as mentioned above work too but can be somewhat complicated. In the end, they all use Unrevoked to achieve S-OFF.

Add one more vote for Unrevoked.

Dan330 said:
here is what I used.. and it will work for 004.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=829045
it is not the easiest way.. but it will teach you want you are doing at each step and why.
uses unrevoked and amon_ra
these are solid.. and will be great for future mods.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I used and I have 004 hardware.

Another vote for Unrevoked. For the phones it supports it's as easy as it gets!

Unrevoked FTW

Awesome... thanks for the reply everyone... I'll hit the Thanks button for each of you once I get to my PC later.... Just one more question... what's the best way to unroot and get back to stock Rom if I need to go for a warranty exchange in the future? Thanks again...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Unrevoked is the noon way so if your unfamiliar with adb and such, that is the method for you sir
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

m00nshake said:
Awesome... thanks for the reply everyone... I'll hit the Thanks button for each of you once I get to my PC later.... Just one more question... what's the best way to unroot and get back to stock Rom if I need to go for a warranty exchange in the future? Thanks again...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Run the Unrevoked S-ON tool and then run a current RUU. Easy as pie.

iitreatedii said:
Unrevoked is the noon way so if your unfamiliar with adb and such, that is the method for you sir
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't use the noon way of rooting. You will still be a noob after.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

m00nshake said:
Well I've read through the wiki and I'm still lost... what's the best way to root a new Evo for 004 hardware? I've been told Unrevoked is good but I've also read threads that it doesn't work with 004. Any help would be greatly appreciated...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the all in one root method. search the dev section for it. very easy & simple.

Ha... I'm familiar with Adb, have Android SDK setup on ubuntu and windows, but the sheer amount of info here for the Evo, its overwhelming, a lot of defunct procedures and conflicting info, I just didn't want to start down the wrong path. I'm seriously considering getting the Thunderbolt, I'm in the 30 day trial with Sprint and although I like the Evo with all the development here, the Thunderbolt is looking
awfully appealing... Cheers to everyone for your assistance...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

fixxxer2008 said:
the all in one root method. search the dev section for it. very easy & simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
holy crap fixxxer, you're still around haha, what's up man

regaw_leinad said:
holy crap fixxxer, you're still around haha, what's up man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why wouldn't i be? i jumped from the hero to an evo like everyone else!

fixxxer2008 said:
why wouldn't i be? i jumped from the hero to an evo like everyone else!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idk, it's just been a while haha. Good old days on the Hero

regaw_leinad said:
Idk, it's just been a while haha. Good old days on the Hero
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, don't you dev anymore?

fixxxer2008 said:
yup, don't you dev anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I do. I just got back from a 4 month cruise ship contract playing the saxophone.. So I'm getting back into it. Just finished a rooter for the newer Hero build lol starting small...

Easiest Root Method Ever

Hi guys. I am looking for the easiest perm root method ever. I've tried many methods and failed all. Please help.
Thanks in advance
P.S. take it easy on me. I'm only 13
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

longhorn24 said:
Hi guys. I am looking for the easiest perm root method ever. I've tried many methods and failed all. Please help.
Thanks in advance
P.S. take it easy on me. I'm only 13
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you should just stop and not root your phone just from looking at how you've asked this question twice in the same section as well as in the dev section.
Having a rooted phone doesn't make you cooler or give you special powers no matter what your friends told you, trust me.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

h22aboi said:
I think you should just stop and not root your phone just from looking at how you've asked this question twice in the same section as well as in the dev section.
Having a rooted phone doesn't make you cooler or give you special powers no matter what your friends told you, trust me.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahahaahaa yes i totally agree
your other thread was answered so either do the research yourself or take the advice you were already given...

h22aboi said:
I think you should just stop and not root your phone just from looking at how you've asked this question twice in the same section as well as in the dev section.
Having a rooted phone doesn't make you cooler or give you special powers no matter what your friends told you, trust me.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well seeing how I'm 15 and (and starting football and powerlifting camp today) building my own roms and a tester for TeamRoyal it can't be too hard but really to the OP you can't post multiple times, its a good way to get your question dismissed by the community. But to actually answer your question, the easiest would probably be the gfree method which is stickied in the development page.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

smatthew45 said:
hahahaahaa yes i totally agree
your other thread was answered so either do the research yourself or take the advice you were already given...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree the same. At least try to keep the thing in only one post.
To root my MyTouch 4G took me over a week, of reading extensive posts here on XDA. Until i got it with the Link that i Posted on your last Discussion.
So every step, from the beginning, slowly. When you see that something is not going right, stop, and tell us Exactly what is happening
And yes, PERMROOT Wont give you special powers to show offf to your friends. Most likely if you do something wrong, say bye to that phone or have ready 100 $ to pay someone to fix it for you.

I just want root to install custom roms. I had a Samsung vibrant before and it was so easy to root.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

You people are funny with the whole root giving power thing, but I swear root gave me +100hp and eng hboot gave +100mp extra. But ya rooting is easy and you don't even need a PC. Story behind it...
I lost my HD2 (Leo1024) as it was my first dev-phone so I heavily modded it and few had personal things I never even released to public so now some prick walking around with it. When this happened dual core based phone the LG-Opt2x and Moto-Atrix (dual core) was still 4months behind and I couldn't wait for it so next best thing I got was MT4G (spec wise DHD-US model), so week before I got MT4G I did total run down from known issues with MT4G to root, ect. So I walk in to the TMoStore and the rep try to "sell" me MT4G so I told the guy save yourself some trouble I already know about the device and so we can skip all this BS and wanted to for it direct.
So I told him to open the box so I can verify it was superior display (by then we already knew about inferior SH model). So he started asking other silly questions how hard it was rooting and back then the meth was lil weird as you needed battery pull. Since I lost my phone they verified my account and gave me a new simcard free and provisioned my line on the spot. So I downloaded all the files needed from my phone for TheUnlockr meth to SDCard and rooted it in front of him using TempROOT (VISIONary+) and PermROOT (root.sh).

So what exactly is the easiest way?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

longhorn24 said:
So what exactly is the easiest way?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Follow the TheUnlockr meth which takes 1min to root using VISIONary+ to obtain TempROOT and when you have it you can get PermROOT by running root.sh script.

longhorn24 said:
So what exactly is the easiest way?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG. IM NOT kidding this time. I GAVE YOU THE D*$%N link dude!.
Use that one. IS the easiest and asured way!!! One more time;.. you dont ned to ADB files, you barely need a PC only to transfer like ONE file to your SD card, y even told you what App to use instead the PAID app ( root Explorer).
Why better not ask to send your phone to someone and root it for free?!
Send it to me and ill do it, but Stop asking the same question if you are not even trying to READ the post that i gave you.
Dont want to go back to your older post and finde the link, ill paste it again for you:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=995549
I DID THIS and i already have used 3 Roms, in the last 3 days. Im only asking you to read. If you Fail one Step, Let us know, and we will HELP.

PD150000 said:
Follow the TheUnlockr meth which takes 1min to root using VISIONary+ to obtain TempROOT and when you have it you can get PermROOT by running root.sh script.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Unlockr Method does not work on all MyTouch 4G FYI. I tried doing it that way, and it failed all the time, unitl i found this one:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=995549

I tried ur method 1 more time and it said error reading input
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

When does it says that?
longhorn24 said:
I tried ur method 1 more time and it said error reading input
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Nicgraner said:
Well seeing how I'm 15 and (and starting football and powerlifting camp today) building my own roms and a tester for TeamRoyal it can't be too hard but really to the OP you can't post multiple times, its a good way to get your question dismissed by the community. But to actually answer your question, the easiest would probably be the gfree method which is stickied in the development page.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really had to mention teh football, and powerlifting camp thing? All it really says is you don't do either of those and the only connection to the football team you have is when they are beating you up and down your highschools hallways

DANCCS said:
OMG. IM NOT kidding this time. I GAVE YOU THE D*$%N link dude!.
Use that one. IS the easiest and asured way!!! One more time;.. you dont ned to ADB files, you barely need a PC only to transfer like ONE file to your SD card, y even told you what App to use instead the PAID app ( root Explorer).
Why better not ask to send your phone to someone and root it for free?!
Send it to me and ill do it, but Stop asking the same question if you are not even trying to READ the post that i gave you.
Dont want to go back to your older post and finde the link, ill paste it again for you:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=995549
I DID THIS and i already have used 3 Roms, in the last 3 days. Im only asking you to read. If you Fail one Step, Let us know, and we will HELP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Longhorn, Im a complete NOOB and I used this method and it worked. I dont think theres an easier way than this. No PC needed, Love it.

ionic7 said:
You really had to mention teh football, and powerlifting camp thing? All it really says is you don't do either of those and the only connection to the football team you have is when they are beating you up and down your highschools hallways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha ok whatever you want to think bro, because I'm pretty sure I'm center on my jv team number 57. So yea and trying to make me look bad doesn't really solve the problem just changes the subject.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

DANCCS said:
The Unlockr Method does not work on all MyTouch 4G FYI. I tried doing it that way, and it failed all the time, unitl i found this one:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=995549
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the root.sh method doesn't work chance are you have a bad eMMC and you will permanently brick your phone
[sent via Cyanogen powered Android]

[RADIOS]MR2 and MR2.5 radios

I take no credit for finding these or originally posting them. But the links are all down and I have the files. So without further delay...
MR2 - http://www.multiupload.com/5TBZK2Y2KS
md5 sum - 4072B5954BF0032103B62C5AE69CB13E
MR2.5 - http://www.multiupload.com/09NPMTLV6W
md5 sum - 513F5C64323876CF7C479BD21BD1DC3E
If I helped, please hit the thanks button.

We've had these for quite some time.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App

Did you read the OP? The links are down. Thanks for these!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App

Z51 said:
We've had these for quite some time.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what you don't have is working links since Chingy pulled them. Now we do.

DrPepperLives23 said:
Did you read the OP? The links are down. Thanks for these!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to help.

Thanks. lots of people have been asking for these since the other links are dead.

beat me to the punch was going to do this later today, nice job man

Pithism said:
beat me to the punch was going to do this later today, nice job man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great minds...
It is just easier to have them in one place like Adryalyne did with the Froyo radios. And it will probably be my one and only thread in this section! lol
Edit - Thanks for the link in your sig!

scassel said:
Great minds...
It is just easier to have them in one place like Adryalyne did with the Froyo radios. And it will probably be my one and only thread in this section! lol
Edit - Thanks for the link in your sig!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
o no problem man, and your created the best thread yet!!!... everyone is always looking for these and i figured it would be good to put them my sig along with your thread to give you some love around here and more options to find and download them.

I have backups of these everywhere but will say thanks anyhow. Never know when mine will disappear. Why do people always have to be dicks when posts are created just to help? Not like its another question is asked without searching god forbid lol.

blueis300 said:
I have backups of these everywhere but will say thanks anyhow. Never know when mine will disappear. Why do people always have to be dicks when posts are created just to help? Not like its another question is asked without searching god forbid lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen. I must have 10 gig of files on my NAS drive cause I never get rid of anything until I need to. It is just helpful for them to be front and center for everyone.

172 downloads and counting. Looks like the timing was right for this.
Now as to the 165 missing thanks... jk lol
Glad this is being used. That is what is important.

I have better results with the MR2 radio rather than the 2.5.
Is anyone else getting the same results?

I do as well. From what I have read, most do. But there are some that do better with 2.5. Each unit is just a little different I guess.

do you have to wipe data/cache before updating a radio? New to the bolt, came from an evo where i just flashed it like a rom

kerms said:
do you have to wipe data/cache before updating a radio? New to the bolt, came from an evo where i just flashed it like a rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. You place the file on the root of your SD card and make sure it is named PG05IMG.zip and boot into bootloader (hboot) and it will flash the radio there.

What is the difference between 2.0 and 2.5?

Just different releases for the MR2 update. Most are having the best luck with MR2 but a few are having good luck with 2.5. Best advice is to flash one and try it for a day or two.

i am a noob as well coming from a dx1 and dx2? if i decide i just want to change radios like i beleive i will be changing roms is it as simple as flash radio and remove from sd etc..?

No. You have to flash through hboot. Its a little more complicated but there should he a guide around here somewhere.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App

Waiting for root? Get involved!

I know there are a lot of anxious people out there like myself who are stuck without root and S-ON. I have been setting up my SDK and the kitchen over the last few weeks ( I have kids ). If you want to get involved, here is a quick reference to what I have found recently. What I miss most *now* about not having root is the ability to test my own ROMs on my own EVO.
Chef Central Forum - dsixda's kitchen!!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=633246
Android SDK
http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
Eclipse developers tool
http://www.eclipse.org/
Android eclipse plug-in
http://developer.android.com/sdk/eclipse-adt.html
HTC dev site for source code for different Android phones.
http://developer.htc.com/
Get licensed to publish your own Android apps for only $25!
https://www.google.com/accounts/Ser...h&followup=https://market.android.com/publish
Tommytomatoe's unrooted Launcher project
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1148978
other suggestions??? Post your ideas!
Take a deep breath, stop feeling sorry for yourself, DIG IN, and soon you will have this...

Great post I'm in......

I don't get all the fuss. Taking an OTA update loses root. No secret there. Were a bunch of people so interested in the official GB that they didn't want a day for a rooted rom?

There are those who lost root due to receiving replacement phones and there are those that are new to the evo and received their phone loaded with the update.

im0rtalz said:
There are those who lost root due to receiving replacement phones and there are those that are new to the evo and received their phone loaded with the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't thinking on that angle. Thanks

Looks amazing difficult lol

Why does everyone assume if u don't have root you took the OTA mine had nothing to do with being impatient I had to get a warranty replacement that shipped with 4.24
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I Agreed
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

ruffneckZeVo said:
Why does everyone assume if u don't have root you took the OTA mine had nothing to do with being impatient I had to get a warranty replacement that shipped with 4.24
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. I know that fits my situation. My phone should be out on the truck for delivery today. Got my fingers and toes crossed it has an older build on it.
Regarding this post though. Very good idea and I really hope some people that can get this done chime in. Root is desperately needed back to the Evo.

Forgot to mention that when you register as an Android developer in the market, you become eligible to order a fully unlocked phone; Nexus One and HTC dev phone 2.
More ideas? Suggestions please...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

It was probably mentioned before, don't flame me if it were, but what about the root method by teamwin for evo 3d and sensation?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App

dbolot1 said:
It was probably mentioned before, don't flame me if it were, but what about the root method by teamwin for evo 3d and sensation?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As it stands......no, too many differences between the devices, however it may lead down the right path to unlocking the OG Evo. Believe me, I'm following it (I have a 3D & my wife just got a refurb warranty OG Evo with the update).

hockeyfamily737 said:
As it stands......no, too many differences between the devices, however it may lead down the right path to unlocking the OG Evo. Believe me, I'm following it (I have a 3D & my wife just got a refurb warranty OG Evo with the update).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I remember, teamwin said that root was obtained from the kernel.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App

Already tested...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1148519&highlight=teamwin

lil_bono said:
Already tested...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1148519&highlight=teamwin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.....I just spent like 30 minutes looking for that thread, LOL. For the life of me I couldn't remember whether it was here or in the 3D forums or the Sensation forums.

In for being optimistic about it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0470565527/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/177-2425905-1608248
More ideas? Please post
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

Was wondering if any dev has tried to work this issue from the hardware side. Instead of using C++ or Visual or other languages, trying this thru Assembler language. I am a computer programmer but I have not done any work with HTC phones because of job, but I do have some ideas that I would love to share if anyone is interested.

uniquenameevo said:
I don't get all the fuss. Taking an OTA update loses root. No secret there. Were a bunch of people so interested in the official GB that they didn't want a day for a rooted rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine was an insurance replacement. I had a rooted EVO happily running Deck's and Tiamat up until late last week.

AA27 said:
Was wondering if any dev has tried to work this issue from the hardware side. Instead of using C++ or Visual or other languages, trying this thru Assembler language. I am a computer programmer but I have not done any work with HTC phones because of job, but I do have some ideas that I would love to share if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested. Please feel free to post or PM me with your thoughts. But, I have to imagine the OS still maintains some degree of control (if it's even possible to compile and execute assembly programs in Android). I'm afraid there's probably a reason no one else has done that . Thanks!

[PSA] EVO Shift Gingerbread Root Status.

I've seen A LOT of people ask the same question... "can I root my Shift if I took the Gingerbread update?" or "Can I downgrade to froyo and then root?"
Just to eliminate any confusion
Update: Thanks to otaking71 and scaryghoul you can now downgrade your hboot and use the froyo root method
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17403731
If nothing else this thread will save me time and from carpal tunnel. Anytime I see the question asked I'm linking back to this thread!
Sorry for the semi pointless thread but I got tired of typing the same thing over and ver
Thanks for the idea FdxRider
Evil_DevNull said:
ATTENTION DEVS-MODERATORS OR WHO EVER.
Get me some mailing information or start a tread ONLY for this shift project. I'm new to the forum and don't have the connection yet.
I got the hardware. who's got the dev exp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agrabren said:
Evil_DevNull: If you want to send a 2.3.3 Shift my way with a bad ESN, I can definitely work on getting perm-root on it. I can send it back to you after we get perm-root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agrabren said:
I'm just waiting for the device to arrive. I don't have cost associated with it except time. So I'd ask donations to wait for me till we have perm-root. Obviously, he has upfront costs getting the devices for us devs and shipping them out. So he can use the donations now to cover what he is doing for the community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

This needs to be a Stickie

Told Ya Crump! LOL!

morbidpete said:
This needs to be a Stickie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.. I like your thinking.

Maybe this will help with some of the clutter

Thank you, getting tired of reading the same questions over and over. Bump...
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

/sigh ....I actually thought we had some useful info or something on it.

So how do I root my shift? Lol
Sent from my temp rooted PG06100 using Tapatalk

Do you not see the thread for temp rooting?
Sent from my Speedy HTC EVO shift on XDA Premium app

Is there perm root available for the shift yet? I took the OTA and now my recovery is gone :-/
Sent from my MiuiSpeedy

Rooster85 said:
Is there perm root available for the shift yet? I took the OTA and now my recovery is gone :-/
Sent from my MiuiSpeedy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol
//10char

Lol maybe well get root after 2012 Haha
Sent From my Evo Shift 4G

Rob_ec said:
Lol maybe well get root after 2012 Haha
Sent From my Evo Shift 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your prob right cuz most will have gotten frustrated and moved on to other phones,and most will prob purchase another HTC and go thru this sad excersise again.

hell, im about to go back to samsung. i like this phone but i cant deal with the lack of support for it

-somebody- said:
hell, im about to go back to samsung. i like this phone but i cant deal with the lack of support for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm waitin for that temproot app you talked about the other day joeykrim said it should be pretty simple to write a script to run it at boot or just after the phone boots up so it's just a wait and see thing.

FdxRider said:
I'm waitin for that temproot app you talked about the other day joeykrim said it should be pretty simple to write a script to run it at boot or just after the phone boots up so it's just a wait and see thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah the guys still working on it but it shouldnt be long.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/26/htc-officially-dissolves-locked-bootlader-policy/
I hate that they do this after the phones released i think were gunna be left out of support :/
Sent From my Evo Shift 4G

Rob_ec said:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/26/htc-officially-dissolves-locked-bootlader-policy/
I hate that they do this after the phones released i think were gunna be left out of support :/
Sent From my Evo Shift 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, have patience, why does no one have patience?

So I take it we're still waiting for release of a temp root for the shift or is there one out that I'm just not finding gotta get my wife's phone does if I can give her a temp root for now that would be nice she could at least wireless tether then
Evo 4g gingerbread-evo-deck-1.3b2 tiamat kernel vipermod

jtspitbull said:
So I take it we're still waiting for release of a temp root for the shift or is there one out that I'm just not finding gotta get my wife's phone does if I can give her a temp root for now that would be nice she could at least wireless tether then
Evo 4g gingerbread-evo-deck-1.3b2 tiamat kernel vipermod
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is temp root http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1185243 all you have to do was scroll down like 3 inches and wa la the thread is there still on the first page