Related
I'm probably the only person on this planet that would ever download a 20.5-meg, 2426-page document titled "S5PC110 RISC Microprocessor User's Manual", but if there are other hardware freaks out there interested, here you go:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=repository&id=644&c=samsung_s5pc110_microprocessor_user_manual_1.00
As you may or may not know, the S5PC110, better known as Hummingbird, is the SoC (System on a Chip) that is the brain of your Epic. Now, when you have those moments when you really just gotta know the memory buffer size for your H.264 encoder or are dying to pore over a block diagram of your SGX540 GPU architecture, you can!
( Note: It does get a little bit dry at parts. Unless you're an ARM engineer, I suppose. )
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
now we can overclock the gpu
/sarcasm
cbusillo said:
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah, because I know exactly squat about Android development. Hardware is more my thing, though if I find some spare time to play around with the Android SDK maybe that can change.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
This actually is really exciting news. RISC architectures in general, especially the ARM instruction set is great and honestly it would so the works a lot of good kicking the chains of x86
Sent from my Nexus S with a keyboard
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
sauron0101 said:
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
gTen said:
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
Well, I got the Epic knowing Tegra 2 was coming in a few months with next-gen performance. I was badly in need of a new phone and the Epic, while not a Cortex A9, is no slouch.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
sauron0101 said:
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
gTen said:
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
Electrofreak said:
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
gTen said:
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are some additional benchmarks comparing the Galaxy Tab to the Viewsonic G Tablet:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4062/samsung-galaxy-tab-the-anandtech-review/5
It's possible that the Tegra 2 isn't optimized yet. Not to mention, Honeycomb will be the release that makes the most of dual cores. However, there are lackluster performance gains in terms of graphics - most of it seems to be purely CPU gains in performance.
I'm not entirely sure that Neocore is representative of real world performance either. It's possible that it may have been optimized for some platforms. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Neocore gave inflated scores for the Snapdragon and it's Adreno graphics platform. Of course, neither is Quadrant.
I think that real world games like Quake III based games are the way to go, although until we see more graphics demanding games, I suppose that there's little to test (we're expecting more games for Android next year).
Finally, we've gotten to a point for web browsing where its the data connection HSPA+, LTE, or WiMAX that will dictate how fast pages load. It's like upgrading the CPU for a PC. I currently run an overclocked q6600 - if I were to upgrade to say a Sandy Bridge when it comes out next year, I don't expect significant improvements in real world browsing performance.
Eventually, the smartphone market will face the same problem that the PC market does. Apart from us enthusiasts who enjoy benchmarking and overclocking, apart from high end gaming, and perhaps some specialized operations (like video encoding which I do a bit of), you really don't need the latest and greatest CPU or 6+ GB of RAM (which many new desktops come with). Same with high end GPUs. Storage follows the same dilemna. I imagine that as storage grows, I'll be storing FLAC music files instead of AAC, MP3, or OGG, and more video. I will also use my cell phone to replace my USB key drive. Otherwise, there's no need for bigger storage.
gTen said:
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
Electrofreak said:
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
gTen said:
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm one of Taylor's (unofficial) tech consultants, and I spoke with him regarding that article. Though, credit where it's due to Taylor, he's been digging stuff up recently that I don't have a clue about. We've talked about Honeycomb and dual-core tablets, and since Honeycomb will be the first release of Android to support tablets officially, and since Motorola seems to be holding back the release of its Tegra 2 tablet until Honeycomb (quickly checks AndroidAndMe to make sure I haven't said anything Taylor hasn't already said), and rumors say that Honeycomb will have dual-core support, it all makes sense.
But yes, the whitepaper is the one he used to base that article on.
gTen said:
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android 2.2 was used in all of their tests according to the footnotes in the document. While I believe that Android 2.2 is capable of using both cores simultaneously, I don't believe it is capable of threading them separately. But that's just my theory. I'm just going off of what the Gingerbread documentation from Google says; and unfortunately there is no mention of improved multi-core processor support in Gingerbread.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
As for FPS and the dithering... they don't really go there; the whitepaper is clearly focused on CPU performance, and so it features benchmark scores and timed results. I take it all with a pinch of salt anyhow; despite the graphs and such, it's still basically an NVIDIA advertisement.
That said, Taylor has been to one of their expos or whatever you call it, and he's convinced that the Tegra 2 GPU will perform several times better than the SGX 540 in the Galaxy S phones. I'm not so sure I'm convinced... I've seen comparable performance benchmarks come from the LG Tegra 2 phone, but Taylor claims it was an early build with and he's seen even better performance. Time will tell I suppose...
EDIT - As for not being able to access the .pdfs, what are you talking about?! XDA app / browser and Adobe Reader!
Apple's A5 CPU in iPad 2 confirms manufacturing by Samsung
source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ipad_2_confirms_manufacturing_by_samsung.html
That was quite a funny thing to read for the morning breakfast
Ipad2 Dual core CPUs are made by Samsung.
In a way we can expect really good CPUs for our next phone upgrade from Samsung
I wouldn't be surprised if the CPU used on the upcoming SGS2 is the same dual core CPU as the one found in Ipad2
The same was the case in the iPhone 4, original iPad, and the Samsung Galaxy S series of phones.
I'm actually kind of curious what kind of agreements the two have now. The A4/Hummingbird chip was originally created by Intrinsity and Samsung, then Apple acquired Intrinsity. I they probably had shared IP the whole time and are continuing the relationship to bring the same basic chip design to both Apple and Samsung. The chips aren't identical, but they are pretty close. The CPU is the same I believe, but being that it's a SOC, the GPUs and other components aren't necessarily the same.
Are there any detailed information? I wonder if iPad 2 uses Exynos...
d3sm0nd said:
Are there any detailed information? I wonder if iPad 2 uses Exynos...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. Exynos is the name of the SoC. They are likely using a similar Cortex A9 CPU, but the SoC is likely customized depending on the application. Apple would have had little reason to acquire Intrinsity if they were going to use Samsung's whole package. That's how the A4 and Hummingbird were.
To add a little further proof, Apple is said to be using the SGX543MP GPU in the A5, while we know that the Orion (Exynos 4210) SoC that the SGS 2 will be using is using the Mali 400 GPU.
I'm not sure what Apple's intentions are exactly. They may just be interested in customizing their packages to their specific needs, but get the major parts (CPU, GPU, etc) built by someone else, or they may be in a learning process to completely design their own chips in the future. They certainly have the money to do something like that, but I don't know that they have the interest.
At least that's how I see it all. If anyone else has further insight please let us know.
The SGX543MP4 (used in the sony NGP) is wayyyyyyy better than the mali 400, but you get what you get
Now, the interesting part about the PowerVR is that it is a true MIMD [Multiple Instruction-Multiple Data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMD ] architecture. In their press releases, ImgTech is bragging about the capabilities of the "GP-GPU", but even if we take a look at the specifications with the cold head, a lot of surprises are in store. The multi-core design is available in dual, quad, octal and sedec-core variants [SGX543MP2, SGX543MP4, SGX543MP8, SGX543MP16], and they're by no means slouches.
For instance, a quad-core version SGX543MP4 at only 200 MHz frequency delivers 133 million polygons per second and offers fill-rate of four billion pixels per second [4GPixel/s], in the range of GeForce 8600 cards. For that matter, 4GPixel/s runs 40nm GeForce GT210 [2.5 GPixel/s] into the ground. Given that GeForce GT210 runs at 589 MHz for the core and 1.4 GHz for shaders. Since PowerVR SGX543 targets handheld devices, there is no saying what the performance plateau is.
An eight core SGX543MP8 at 200 MHz delivers 266 million polygons and eight billion pixels per second, while faster clocked version, for instance, at 400 MHz would deliver 532 million polygons and 16 billion pixels per second. 16 billion pixels per second equal GeForce GTX 260-216, for instance.
After analyzing the performance at hand, it is no wonder that Sony chose to go with PowerVR for the next-generation PlayStation Portable. While the exact details of the SoC are still in question, our take is that Sony could go with quad-core setup at 400MHz [8GPixel/s], paired with a dual-core CPU based on ARM Cortex architecture. This would put Sony direct in line against Tegra-powered Nintendo DS2, PowerVR-based Apple's iPhone 4G and Palm Pre2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ryude said:
The SGX543MP4 (used in the sony NGP) is wayyyyyyy better than the mali 400, but you get what you get
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The source of this is information is what exactly...?
martino2k6 said:
The source of this is information is what exactly...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mali 400 specs and performance figures have already been revealed, as well as the SGX543MP4. Benchmarks also favor the PowerVR.
Strange, so I guess that this disproves the other articles that have stated that Apple has had the Taiwanese company TSMC develop the chips for them.
Sent from my Nexus S
Carne_Asada_Fries said:
Strange, so I guess that this disproves the other articles that have stated that Apple has had the Taiwanese company TSMC develop the chips for them.
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The proof is solid and indeed disproves those other articles.
d3sm0nd said:
Are there any detailed information? I wonder if iPad 2 uses Exynos...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPU is different in Ipad 2, Ipad 2 has PowerVR SGX543MP2 (I think MP2 means 2 cores) according to Anandtech.
http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index...rmance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
ryude said:
The mali 400 specs and performance figures have already been revealed, as well as the SGX543MP4. Benchmarks also favor the PowerVR.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPad has the MP2 variant, which has two cores. The Mali-400 has 4 cores. I mean, this doesn't mean much but personally I think it's still in the air until someone does proper benchmarks with optimised drivers on a final release model.
martino2k6 said:
iPad has the MP2 variant, which has two cores. The Mali-400 has 4 cores. I mean, this doesn't mean much but personally I think it's still in the air until someone does proper benchmarks with optimised drivers on a final release model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll definitely be interested since I just got the iPad 2 and tentatively plan on getting the SGS2. Biggest thing about Android though is that it's so hard to get apps that actually utilize the GPU to it's fullest extent. Apps don't get updated for one top of the line phone while most can't handle it, so in that sense I think we'll see better performance out of the iPad 2. It'll be interesting to see if the Tegra games run on the SGS2 and if they are optimized enough to make good use out of the GPU.
Wouldn't it be possible, with an ipad that is jailbroken to allow dual booting into android since the processor will match that of samsungs mobiles? Generally doesn't the Chooser/firmware discrepancy usually disallow this? If this gap is now filled it would seem doable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
crossfire2500 said:
Wouldn't it be possible, with an ipad that is jailbroken to allow dual booting into android since the processor will match that of samsungs mobiles? Generally doesn't the Chooser/firmware discrepancy usually disallow this? If this gap is now filled it would seem doable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And why would you want to do that? People buy iDevices for the UX which iOS gives, mainly the multitude of apps and ease of use that it provides. Furthermore, Steve Jobs would chop your head off...
crossfire2500 said:
Wouldn't it be possible, with an ipad that is jailbroken to allow dual booting into android since the processor will match that of samsungs mobiles? Generally doesn't the Chooser/firmware discrepancy usually disallow this? If this gap is now filled it would seem doable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The CPU is probably the easiest part. As long as you're an ARM CPU, you can compile support for it. It's the drivers for every other piece of hardware that would be important.
hey folks. Samsung is going back to power vr as the graphics force to power its next gen soc(A15 socs??). With HD super-amoled plus and power vr 6xx(not too sure if its 6xx or 5xx) series to power them,it will definitely be another great year for Samsung and android. I personally can't wait.
what do you guys think?
a similar soc is ST-Ericsson Nova A9600 which is also an A15 with power vr 6 serires gpu read here for discussion on this NOVA
awesome-member said:
hey folks. Samsung is going back to power vr as the graphics force to power its next gen soc(A15 socs??). With HD super-amoled plus and power vr 6xx(not too sure if its 6xx or 5xx) series to power them,it will definitely be another great year for Samsung and android. I personally can't wait.
what do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did ya get this from? I thought it was reported that it would be Cortex A15 + Mali T604?
Logi_Ca1 said:
Where did ya get this from? I thought it was reported that it would be Cortex A15 + Mali T604?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the evidence.I'll be more than happy to share it to a mod but wont release for general public.(for obvious reasons)
Source please?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
awesome-member said:
i have the evidence.I'll be more than happy to share it to a mod but wont release for general public.(for obvious reasons)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well ok... Personally I don't care either way, I just hope they go for whatever has the best performance/power consumption ratio.
WagTwo said:
Source please?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assure its legit. and it specifically says Samsung are moving away form mail.
Logi_Ca1 said:
Well ok... Personally I don't care either way, I just hope they go for whatever has the best performance/power consumption ratio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dont care !!! remember when sgs2 was first launched how many games/apps were incompatible. significant amount of app that i'd bought while i had sgs were not working on my sgs2 things are getting better now. but using the similar gpu found in ios devices and psvita does make a difference and I as a consumer will have more option and it's not just limited to games but to all other apps that uses open gl.
awesome-member said:
I assure its legit. and it specifically says Samsung are moving away form mail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes sense, I recently read news that Samsung licensed some PowerVR GPUs.
But I do hope it's a SGX 6XX, anything else would be a disappointment (for me).
I also hope that it's going to be a dual-core (1.6GHz) Cortex A15, if it is it will be way faster than a quadcore Cortex A9 especially when you consider that applications are only starting to support dual-cores right now.
wurzelsepp3 said:
It makes sense, I recently read news that Samsung licensed some PowerVR GPUs.
But I do hope it's a SGX 6XX, anything else would be a disappointment (for me).
I also hope that it's going to be a dual-core (1.6GHz) Cortex A15, if it is it will be way faster than a quadcore Cortex A9 especially when you consider that applications are only starting to support dual-cores right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we might still see newer quad A9 with mali but by late 2012 we should expect Samsung coming out with A15 with power vr. since A6(for ipad3) is widely rumored to be A15 and we all know who makes A5 for apple.we should see the Samsung version of A15 in 2012.
also if you remember the exynos/orion which was delayed and it was reported(not officially though) that the reason was 'problems with it graphics unit'.
i like powerVR more then mali
Any mods that can confirm the information?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
I'd prefer if it was a power vr 6x. Easier support from developers due to iphones using power vr also.
awesome-member said:
hey folks. Samsung is going back to power vr as the graphics force to power its next gen soc(A15 socs??). With HD super-amoled plus and power vr 6xx(not too sure if its 6xx or 5xx) series to power them,it will definitely be another great year for Samsung and android. I personally can't wait.
what do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm indifferent either way. The Mali 400 in my S2 can keep up with all the games and I'm not seeing a trend towards better quality graphics simply because the screens on our devices do not support it, this might change with ICS and the 720p screen on the Galaxy Nexus.
For the future it's wait and see. Usually better graphics means more power consumption and that's a trade-off I'm not willing to make.
They've opted for both the next gen of PowerVR and Mali chips, so it could be either.
OP is not wrong, but he is not right either.
GIR said:
I'm indifferent either way. The Mali 400 in my S2 can keep up with all the games and I'm not seeing a trend towards better quality graphics simply because the screens on our devices do not support it, this might change with ICS and the 720p screen on the Galaxy Nexus.
For the future it's wait and see. Usually better graphics means more power consumption and that's a trade-off I'm not willing to make.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm personally hoping for a usable NDS or PSP emulator in 2012.
power consumption should be fine considering that 45 SiO2 > 32/28 nm hkmg is a huge jump.
Rawat said:
They've opted for both the next gen of PowerVR and Mali chips, so it could be either.
OP is not wrong, but he is not right either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am aware that samsung is the licensee of both mali and power vr but the source specifically says that they are 'moving away from mali'. we may see few versions of exynos with mali powering some of the future devices but their flagship devices will have power VR.
WTF guys this is exclusive news to XDA and you rate it 2 stars. Just because you are not getting the news from engadget?? there were news about samsung being the licensee of both powervr and mali but i have never seen a report that says which way the samsung was heading in terms of graphics wise.
At best, this is an unsubstantiated rumour. We'll know more about Samsung's SoC plans when they unveil the Galaxy S III at MWC.
tbqh, your news hardly seems reliable, and even if it was doesn't really matter. Samsung have used PowerVR for many of their SoCs, and Mali 400 for only the Exynos 4210
Samsung has announced and is sampling two newer SOCs; Exynos 4212 and Exynos 5250.
Exynos 4210 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.2ghz, Mali 400 MP4 GPU, 45nm process.
Exynos 4212 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.5ghz, Mali 400 MP4 GPU, 32nm process. (GPU Speculated, not officially disclosed)
Exynos 5250 - dual-core Cortex A15 @ 2.0ghz, Mali T604 GPU, 32nm process.(GPU Speculated, not officially disclosed)
Here's the thing about sampling/testing. SOCs typically have to be sampled for 6 months (or more) before they show up in phones. 4212 started sampling in September/October and 5250 started sampling in November. That means that both should be available for the typical Galaxy S launch window (my bet is on 5250).
If Samsung does go back to PowerVR, by the time they start sampling this SOC they would have already missed the Galaxy SIII launch window. So, I find this unsourced information interesting but highly unlikely at this point. Once you can reveal your source(s) we'll be able to judge this more accurately. I appreciate the info and respect your need to conceal your source(s) at this time.
jaykresge said:
Samsung has announced and is sampling two newer SOCs; Exynos 4212 and Exynos 5250.
Exynos 4210 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.2ghz, Mali 400 MP GPU, 45nm process.
Exynos 4212 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.5ghz, Mali 400 MP GPU, 32nm process.
Exynos 5250 - dual-core Cortex A15 @ 2.0ghz, Mali T604 GPU, 32nm process.
Here's the thing about sampling/testing. SOCs typically have to be sampled for 6 months (or more) before they show up in phones. 4212 started sampling in September/October and 5250 started sampling in November. That means that both should be available for the typical Galaxy S launch window (my bet is on 5250).
If Samsung does go back to PowerVR, by the time they start sampling this SOC they would have already missed the Galaxy SIII launch window. So, I find this unsourced information interesting but highly unlikely at this point. Once you can reveal your source(s) we'll be able to judge this more accurately. I appreciate the info and respect your need to conceal your source(s) at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your post.it is highly likely that sgs 3 will sport a Exynos 5250. but with in next year I think wee will see high res 3D tablet since samsung is also a TV manufacturer(we all know that 3d TV is the TV for 2012 /s) and it makes sense to lure more people in to 3D (3D ecosystem???).to achieve such graphical horsepower Power VR 6 is the only option they have. my bet is we will see highres 3d tablet by q4 of 2012 sporting an soc with power vr 6xxxx
Verizon is one of the five carriers to start offering the Samsung Galaxy S III this month and leaked pictures show that the device will virtually be an untouched version of its international GSM sibling.Android Central got their hands on some photos of the Galaxy S III for the Big Red, which, excluding the 4G Verizon logo on the back, is the same as the GSM model of the device. The only difference is it runs on a dual-core 1.5GHz Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 MSM8960 chipset with 2GB of RAM.
Samsung have decided not to alter the Galaxy S III as much as they did with the Galaxy S II lineup last year and launch the device with the same outfit as everywhere else. This seems to be the case with the US-bound T-Mobile version and the one sold by AT&T, as well.
Speaking of launch, it's yet unclear when Verizon is going to put the Galaxy S III on the shelves, but it will surely be sometime this month.
Dual core with 2gigs of ram? Isnt the S3 quad core with 1gig? Hmmm
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
QBANBOY407 said:
Dual core with 2gigs of ram? Isnt the S3 quad core with 1gig? Hmmm
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2GB of RAM is nice, but I'd rather have a quad-core Exynos since I'm a gamer and that's a big selling point of the Galaxy line.
Product F(RED) said:
2GB of RAM is nice, but I'd rather have a quad-core Exynos since I'm a gamer and that's a big selling point of the Galaxy line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too!
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
Snapdragon....so does that mean no Wolfson DAC for Verizon's phone?
alpha-niner64 said:
Snapdragon....so does that mean no Wolfson DAC for Verizon's phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent u a pm can u please reply ??
June 6th they are starting to take pre-orders is what I just saw.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
As the release of the Samsung Galaxy SIII looms, I am wondering what events will take place. Do you think big red will officially roll out the the new data plans before launch? I doubt it.
When the S3 is released this month presumably before the new data plans roll out, will I be able to keep my grandfathered unlimited plan?
ready to leave Apple for android, but is the GS3 good enough?
hey guys not sure if i should get this phone... im sad it will not have the overclocked Mali400 400mhz GPU.... but i know the S4 CPU with the andreno 225 is a beast, i held off the GN on big red cause of the old powervr540 GPU WTF but i know ICS is much better of using the GPU instead of 3.2 and below mostly using the CPU for graphics processing... im a big gamer , thats why i use the iphone4s i love the powervr543mp2 its badass... so... what should i get? i kinda wanna wait for the LG eclipse i hear it comes with the adreno 320, that alone makes me giddy or does any one know of any phones coming out with the exynos 5250? i hear that Mali-t604 GPU can walk all over the PowerVR544mp4 in the ipad3 so anyone please help... should i wait for phones with the next Gen GPUS ,adreno 320 and Mali-t604? or will my gaming needs be met with the GS3 with the S4 CPU running the adreno 225 GPU? im ready to get rid of my Iphone4s... but i still want the same graphics performance of the powerVR543mp2 in my iphone 4S , i love the idea of android and i cant wait to leave the dark side of apple!!!! FTW Andriod!!!
p.s i know im a noob here so sorry for the long post
jfriend33 said:
As the release of the Samsung Galaxy SIII looms, I am wondering what events will take place. Do you think big red will officially roll out the the new data plans before launch? I doubt it.
When the S3 is released this month presumably before the new data plans roll out, will I be able to keep my grandfathered unlimited plan?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go ahead and pre-order you will be able to keep your Unlimited. Tiered plans are supposed to begin July 1st, so anytime before then should be fine.
vader540is said:
hey guys not sure if i should get this phone... im sad it will not have the overclocked Mali400 400mhz GPU.... but i know the S4 CPU with the andreno 225 is a beast, i held off the GN on big red cause of the old powervr540 GPU WTF but i know ICS is much better of using the GPU instead of 3.2 and below mostly using the CPU for graphics processing... im a big gamer , thats why i use the iphone4s i love the powervr543mp2 its badass... so... what should i get? i kinda wanna wait for the LG eclipse i hear it comes with the adreno 320, that alone makes me giddy or does any one know of any phones coming out with the exynos 5250? i hear that Mali-t604 GPU can walk all over the PowerVR544mp4 in the ipad3 so anyone please help... should i wait for phones with the next Gen GPUS ,adreno 320 and Mali-t604? or will my gaming needs be met with the GS3 with the S4 CPU running the adreno 225 GPU? im ready to get rid of my Iphone4s... but i still want the same graphics performance of the powerVR543mp2 in my iphone 4S , i love the idea of android and i cant wait to leave the dark side of apple!!!! FTW Andriod!!!
p.s i know im a noob here so sorry for the long post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developers never ever use the highest end hardware when designing their games because of exactly why you're worried. They'll always use the hardware that's the most friendly and easily-sourced in favor of something that is completely different like the Mali GPUs (which is more reserved for tablets anyways if theory comes to fact). Mali is still unproven whereas Adreno is easily sourced. I'll put money that developers will favor Adreno for some time until.
alpha-niner64 said:
Developers never ever use the highest end hardware when designing their games because of exactly why you're worried. They'll always use the hardware that's the most friendly and easily-sourced in favor of something that is completely different like the Mali GPUs (which is more reserved for tablets anyways if theory comes to fact). Mali is still unproven whereas Adreno is easily sourced. I'll put money that developers will favor Adreno for some time until.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The exception to your statement is of course the Tegra platform, which has versions of games optimized specifically for it. But in general you're correct. The Mali is significantly more powerful than the S4, although in real-world usage the difference would be negligible.
Does the VZW version with the Snapdragon MSM8960 radio have LTE on the actual SOC. Or is the LTE radio on a separate chip like the Bionic and Galaxy Nexus? Basically is there any battery saving with this radio by having the LTE on the SOC itself instead of a stand alone chip set.
proxus01 said:
Does the VZW version with the Snapdragon MSM8960 radio have LTE on the actual SOC. Or is the LTE radio on a separate chip like the Bionic and Galaxy Nexus? Basically is there any battery saving with this radio by having the LTE on the SOC itself instead of a stand alone chip set.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its actually integrated in to the block of the CPU diagram
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA
I found a Diagram
The Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 (MSM8960) is composed of two Krait CPUs clocked between 1.2 and 1.5 Ghz, an Adreno 225 GPU and a modem subsystem with LTE, GPS, Wifi, Bluetooth and FM support. It will be manufactured using 28nm technology and provide much lower power consumption compared to previous generations.
Snapdragon S4 Block Diagram
Key features and improvements:
New CPU micro-architecture: The Krait CPU offer a 60% performance improvement compared to the scorpion CPU used in previous generations.
CPU performance Roadmap
SIMD/VFP performance: Multimedia instructions (SIMD) and floating point operations have also been improved, but no metrics have been provided.
Optimized memory subsystem: Krait includes dual-channel memory. Dual-channel memory is critical in
order for the processor to being able to handle the large bandwidth requirements in multicore systems.
25/40% power improvement: Thanks to an asynchronous multi-core processing, the MSM8960 consumes between 25 to 40% less power.
Reduced complexity: Qualcomm explains a companion core is not needed to reduce power savings as they use aSMP (asynchronous SMP) technology. This goes against the choice of Nvidia to have a companion core in NVidia 3.
50% increase in GPU performance: The Adreno 225 GPU delivers 50% greater graphics processing power over the previous generation Adreno GPU, Adreno 220, and six times the processing power of Adreno 200.
Adreno GPU Power Improvements
Fully integrated 3G/4G world/multimode LTE Modem: Supports all of the world:s leading 2G, 3G
and 4G LTE standards. It also includes integrated support for multiple satellite position networks (GPS and GLONASS) as well as short range radios via Bluetooth, WiFi, FM and NFC.
Programmable Hexagon DSPTM Architecture: According to the block diagram above. They all contribute to the improved performance of the mobile processor. Custom DSP applications can also be written by OEM and ISV.
Read more: http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/10/08/qualcomm-snapdragon-s4-msm8960/
alpha-niner64 said:
Developers never ever use the highest end hardware when designing their games because of exactly why you're worried. They'll always use the hardware that's the most friendly and easily-sourced in favor of something that is completely different like the Mali GPUs (which is more reserved for tablets anyways if theory comes to fact). Mali is still unproven whereas Adreno is easily sourced. I'll put money that developers will favor Adreno for some time until.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true but with the growth of mobile gaming today, developers must use next Gen GPUs for example the Malit628 will have native support for open CL, 3D hi Res, multi threading and 64 bit... Look at TV now there will be ultra definition which will make 1080p look like my original Nintendo game boy in the 90s... So smart phones will follow suit... Look at LGs new super phone the eclipse, 5 inch display 440 ppi ! And has an adreno 320 GPU apple knows how important a smooth graphic interface is... Apple has always used high power GPUs in their Ipad and iPhones, look at ICS Google finally use integrated hardware and graphical acceleration in the ICS operating system, u can tell the difference on how smooth 4.0 is compared to 2.3 and 3.0 the future looks good right about now....its the waiting that is killing me lol
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA
I am considering the Galaxy S III to keep my Verizon Unlimited Data plan, but I am wondering if it is rootable?
S. Prime said:
I am considering the Galaxy S III to keep my Verizon Unlimited Data plan, but I am wondering if it is rootable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung phones are ALWAYS rootable. They allow it. In fact, the bootloader just gives you a warning but lets you.
Hi,
One thing I havent seen many people talk about is the fact that S3/2 and the Note lack the Tegra SoC. I Kknow Samsung likes to use their own Exynos, but sometimes I hate the fact that I cant run those THD games which admittedly many are quality games. And.in some cases like Riptide and Shadowgun you do get some extra eye-candy over the regular versions. This is one area were the HTC One X wins I think....the ability to play those high quality THD versions of the game. Im also sure you can root and use chainfire, but sometimes I wish the galaxy line would use the Tegra 3 and have the widest game compatibility. For me this is the biggest downside to what for me is.the perfect phone.
Anyone feel the same?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I hear ya!!!
I really miss my Tegra goodness...
Many will say that by using this or using that you can make Tegra games run on non-tegra devices, and that's partially true, however true Tegra graphics are much better...
There are many shader effects missing on those non-tegra devices.
I would really love to see a Tegra based Note (even though I know that would never happen)...
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
bamboo12 said:
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like most tegra 2 devices. I've used moto atrix, lg g2x, acer/toshiba tablets.
They just helping wuth androids biggest problem, fragmentation. This isnt a samsung processor issue, this is up to the developer. Think 360 vs ps3.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Tegra processors are usually on the low-end of available options.
Eg/
SGS: Exynos 3110 = 170
Droid2 : OMAP 3630 = 160
NexusOne: QSD 8250 = 130
HTC prototype: Tegra APX 650 = 100
SGS 2: Exynos 4210 = 140
Sensation XL: QSD 8255= 130
Optimus 3D: OMAP 4330 = 120
Atrix 4G: Tegra2 = 100
SGS 3: Exynos 4412 = 130
*OMAP Skipped Generation* = N/A
Optimus 4X: Tegra3 = 110
OneS: Krait S4-dual = 100
By having early and direct access to their own manufacturing facility, Samsung can develop chips that are slightly faster than the competition and produce them at lower costs.
Apple tends to strongarm the market with early business deals and access to manufacturing facilities too, though not on Samsung's scale. Fortunately for Apple, they don't need the fastest, they need "good enough" at the cheapest price. Since iOS will run faster than Android, due to better and direct optimizations, Apple's offerings can consequently be even faster than Samsung's.
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Rayan said:
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not seen a side by side comparison but apart from the graphics, how many tegra games are really compelling? I have not seen a tegra game that made me wish i had a tegra device.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
I prefer Mali. So no.
Sent via carrier pigeon
Rayan said:
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to the GPU, Nvidia are using competitive offerings.
For instance, the one in Tegra 1 (APX 650) was top-tier in its era, but not the best.
This is forgivable as they were new to the mobile market.
With the Tegra2, nVidia did offer a great chip.
It was about on-par/higher than the SGX540... but it was surpassed with the new drivers and higher clocked SGX540 from OMAP4470. And not to mention the quadcore Mali-400 (SGS2) that embarassed it.
With the Tegra3, there's nothing new.
They offer a gpu that was better than their competitors, but the competitors are rolling out their new gpu. Qualcomm with their new Adreno. Samsung with the T604. Omap with the SGX544mp4. In fact the new A5X gpu is superior to the Tegra3 gpu. Don't forget about the PS Vita either.
here's an interesting article: http://blog.laptopmag.com/tablet-chip-showdown-nvidia-tegra-3-vs-the-new-ipads-a5x
Soon, Tegra3 will be a "mid-entry" SoC, or even a "low-mid" one.
The only advantage the Tegra chips have is the TegraZone. Deeper integration of the software to the gpu, that's how nVidia levels the field.
So you are in fact incorrect. They don't blow the competition out of the water!
They fragment the competition, which I believe is wrong. I think that either nVidia must try harder (they're a friggin graphics company!!!) or that the TegraZone enhancements should be in the AOSP and give all competitors a chance to provide the best software (drivers producing, kernels processing, roms consuming) for their hardware.
With greater competition, the consumers win.
I'd rather have the better Exynos processor than some crappy Tegra games which I might show off once and then never play again...
pboesboes said:
I'd rather have the better Exynos processor than some crappy Tegra games which I might show off once and then never play again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1,000,000 to this!
Tegra - no thank you!
bamboo12 said:
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was Tegra 2. Tegra 3 on the HtC one x and Asus transformer prime flies.
So the myth that Tegra is slow has been shown by Tegra 3
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
violentgoomba said:
I have not seen a side by side comparison but apart from the graphics, how many tegra games are really compelling? I have not seen a tegra game that made me wish i had a tegra device.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Riptide GP...Samurai 2 THD, Shadowgun Tegra 3, Fruit Ninja THD, Bang bang racing Thd...i think are pretty good titles and offrr significant enhancements over the non thd versions.
I love my Note...but I do have to admit that a One X with the Tegra 3 has more game support and is faster.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
nvidia is a GFX Company. They'll pay for people develop stuff for their products.
Tegra 3 is inferior to the Mali 400 MP. Ask the developer to make a version of their game using all Mali 400MP Features.
Blame the developer not the GPU itself.
blue13x said:
Hi,
One thing I havent seen many people talk about is the fact that S3/2 and the Note lack the Tegra SoC. I Kknow Samsung likes to use their own Exynos, but sometimes I hate the fact that I cant run those THD games which admittedly many are quality games. And.in some cases like Riptide and Shadowgun you do get some extra eye-candy over the regular versions. This is one area were the HTC One X wins I think....the ability to play those high quality THD versions of the game. Im also sure you can root and use chainfire, but sometimes I wish the galaxy line would use the Tegra 3 and have the widest game compatibility. For me this is the biggest downside to what for me is.the perfect phone.
Anyone feel the same?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few Samsungs run Tegras - they have piss poor performance, abysmal video decoding capability, etc. See Tab 10.1 as an example - the tegra2 in that is a POS compared to Exynos4.
NVidia is always first to up the core count but always delivers poor performance per core.
Similarly, the Exynos 4412 smokes the Tegra 3 when total system performance is taken into account.
It's kind of odd that the SoC that comes from a company whose specialty is GPUs is the worst in terms of 2D video performance (codec support) and average at best for 3D.
On top of that they use some funky texture compression format not compatible with anything else unless you use Chainfire 3D.
mdrjr said:
Tegra 3 is inferior to the Mali 400 MP. Ask the developer to make a version of their game using all Mali 400MP Features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The gpu in the Tegra 3 is slightly superior to the quadcore Mali-400, not a huge stretch.
But each "generation" nVidia have been the the inferior products, especially in the graphics components (irony?). However, they offset this because they're first to market.
mdrjr said:
Blame the developer not the GPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly right.
Its about the entire offering software AND hardware optimization, not one without the other.
I rather have a 1GB RAM and Tegra2 rather than 2GB RAM and Exynos 4410... just as long as the software is optimized (for instance, lower-level API support using Qt and Mainline Linux.... compared to higher-order virtual engine running on a inferior kernel).
I think your arguments are all invalid. Especially on this forum.
Just install chainfire 3d pro and you can run all those THD games flawlessly and in real world performance mali blows tegra out of the sky.
tegra gets no love nowadays
Darfus said:
I think your arguments are all invalid. Especially on this forum.
Just install chainfire 3d pro and you can run all those THD games flawlessly and in real world performance mali blows tegra out of the sky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even though Chainfire allow us to run Tegra games, it does not do a good job emulating the shader effects present in the actual games. Games look flat and dull compared to the original.
Cheers!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Rayan said:
Even though Chainfire allow us to run Tegra games, it does not do a good job emulating the shader effects present in the actual games. Games look flat and dull compared to the original.
Cheers!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plus it requires rooting. I prefer the support right out of the box.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium