Database Users

Don't Try to Partition with Rom Manager.

If You try to partition with Rom manager it partitions the internal sd and you will brick your phone. Your screen will be black with only the capacative buttons glowing. This brick is possibly the more annoying ones where you have to flash your phone twice. If you have this problem don't panic like i did.
*REMOVING EXTERNAL SD CARD MIGHT IMPROVE ODIN CHANCES OF WORKING*(Thanks Hoey2011 for mentioning this)
Step 1: Download all files from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=734475
PUt them in a safe spot you will need them for later.
Step 2: Download files from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=740558
Step 3: HAVE ODIN OPENED FIRST!!(This helped it detect my phone for some reason)Get phone into download mode. The easiest way to do this is pull out battery from phone. Then plug phone into usb connected to computer it will have the battery sign. Hold volume keys and power button when the screen goes black let go of power button. You will be in download mode if Odin doesn't detect it unplug usb and replug it.
Step 4: Once Odin has recognized your phone set the pit file and .tar file FROM EUGENE'S 2.2 THREAD. NOT THE FIRST LINK THE SECOND LINK. Then click start. And follow all the directions on his thread.
Step 5: Once you have flashed that rom you put your phone in download mode again and set up the pit and .tar file for Stock 2.1. After you finish flashing it your phone should be saved!
Thanks to Eugene373, justanothercrowd and anomalous3(for being patient and helping me out when I had this problem) And to anyone else that helped me solve this problem.

Thanx for being the guinea pig. Glad you got it back working.

Yea It was a ***** tho. Spent at least 4 hrs fixing it. But glad its working

Wow that sucks well thanks for the write up.

I was in the same boat as you and as I was downloading 2.2 to try I found your thread. Works like a charm! Thanks for the info on this. I guess I shouldn't read threads backwards from now on, huh?

ok so I've been following this method, and got eugene's 2.2 loaded up correctly, and rebooted back into download mode. The 2.2 files loaded just fine through odin, but now that I'm flashing 2.1, it seems hung on the cache.rfs.
I am gonna go smoke a blunt or two and come back and see how it's progressed, but this hang is the same issue I had before, on my windows 7 64bit machine. I figured it was a compatibility problem so I'm using my old busted vista machine. I've gotten further on the vista laptop than the W7 one, but I'm still hung.
How long should the 2nd loadup take??
I am almost at my wits end with this stupid mistake I made and hope is such a far stretch

ok, so i continued my use of the search tool here at xda and found my answer
I had my MicroSD card in my phone, hadn't even thought to remove it. I have moved past the cache.rfs file and am now waiting to see the results....
IT WORKED OMG OMG OMG
Xda forums almost ruined my phone, then brought it back from the dead
god i love equlibrium

Good info thanks for posting it, but one thing I would like to point out and I am not alone in feeling this way people are throwing the.word brick around and far to casually. You did not brick your phone by partitioning it the proof is that you fixed your phone. Bricking a phone is wheb youbrender the phone usless as a brick when it is totally broken and unfixable. I dont mean to nitpick i just hate seeing everyone that makes a mistake in anything crying wolf and claiming to have bricked. But my rant aside thanks for the very usefull info you mightvwanna pass it on to koush so he can fix it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I did exactly this and I was so frustrated that I sent my phone back to tmobile and just purchased a new one. I don't know about yall but if there are two storage points (internal and external) there should be an option for both in default recovery because when I tried to partition the external sd card *in which i was able to execute on my nexus one* it was very easy but because I use clockwork recovery and did a rom backup, i guess the backup zip wasn't safe because I received the same results as you. There should be 2 options to choose from that says *internal storage, External SD Card* why make things difficult? lol
The manufacturers need to be a little more intuitive.
*this is my opinion*

zDisturbed1 said:
Good info thanks for posting it, but one thing I would like to point out and I am not alone in feeling this way people are throwing the.word brick around and far to casually. You did not brick your phone by partitioning it the proof is that you fixed your phone. Bricking a phone is wheb youbrender the phone usless as a brick when it is totally broken and unfixable. I dont mean to nitpick i just hate seeing everyone that makes a mistake in anything crying wolf and claiming to have bricked. But my rant aside thanks for the very usefull info you mightvwanna pass it on to koush so he can fix it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the clarification. I actually had no idea a brick was unfixable. I thought a brick was when your phone messed up and you'd reflash to get it working. Lol sorry again
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Ah crap, that's right, /sdcard is mapped to the *internal* sd card on the phone, and that's what is partitioned. I'll disable partitioning on the phone (external SD card is not accessible in recovery).

Koush said:
Ah crap, that's right, /sdcard is mapped to the *internal* sd card on the phone, and that's what is partitioned. I'll disable partitioning on the phone (external SD card is not accessible in recovery).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't tried partitioning, but the card's /dev/block/mmcblk1p* entries are there and I can mount them. That's how the dc2ext hack works. It mounts /sd-ext and /data to do the copies and it does it in recovery.

hoey2011 said:
ok so I've been following this method, and got eugene's 2.2 loaded up correctly, and rebooted back into download mode. The 2.2 files loaded just fine through odin, but now that I'm flashing 2.1, it seems hung on the cache.rfs.
I am gonna go smoke a blunt or two and come back and see how it's progressed, but this hang is the same issue I had before, on my windows 7 64bit machine. I figured it was a compatibility problem so I'm using my old busted vista machine. I've gotten further on the vista laptop than the W7 one, but I'm still hung.
How long should the 2nd loadup take??
I am almost at my wits end with this stupid mistake I made and hope is such a far stretch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have had serious issues with Odin hanging on my WIn 7 32bit system. However, I think I was actually doing it wrong. I was booting my phone to download mode then plugging it in to my computer. However, I have had continued success (tried a bunch last night) by doing this:
Open Odin, take out the battery, plug in USB cord to phone and computer, hold vol up+down, put in battery. Whenever I booted into Download Mode this way, Odin worked perfect every time. Turns out after cursing my computer it was user error, whoops .

brandnewsimmy said:
I have had serious issues with Odin hanging on my WIn 7 32bit system. However, I think I was actually doing it wrong. I was booting my phone to download mode then plugging it in to my computer. However, I have had continued success (tried a bunch last night) by doing this:
Open Odin, take out the battery, plug in USB cord to phone and computer, hold vol up+down, put in battery. Whenever I booted into Download Mode this way, Odin worked perfect every time. Turns out after cursing my computer it was user error, whoops .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
turns out, the system wasn't the finicky piece of equipment, it was the phone and the odin software. I inadvertently left the sd card in the phone, the external one, and that was causing my hangs. Two more tries after pulling the sd card, I had success and was back to my phone again

hoey2011 said:
turns out, the system wasn't the finicky piece of equipment, it was the phone and the odin software. I inadvertently left the sd card in the phone, the external one, and that was causing my hangs. Two more tries after pulling the sd card, I had success and was back to my phone again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I forgot to mention to do that. I did that with mine as well. Taking out the sd card increases success. Thanks for mentioning it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

farrisizdaman said:
Thanks for the clarification. I actually had no idea a brick was unfixable. I thought a brick was when your phone messed up and you'd reflash to get it working. Lol sorry again
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YEa I guessed as much thats why I was trying not to "flame" and to be informative you are a victim of exactly what I am talking about. Because so many people throw around the word brick anytime anything goes wrong not only is it losing its meaning but people are also getting confused.

This does work, it took me about 7 hours last night to fix it.
I will say if it does not work then keep trying.
My flash kept freezing on the froyo rom and would not finish, so I actually had to try and flash the full captivate stock rom (search the captivate forum) it froze but afterwords it let me go throught the whole flash process with Eugenes 2.2 rom, then flashed right back to 2.1 no prob.
I will also say that if you are on a x64 system then go find a x86 (32 bit) system. I dont know why but it just works better.
So if it doesnt work then do this:
1. Make sure you are on a 32 bit system.
2. Flash a Full Rom from the Captivate forum. (It has a more to it I believe, changes the system maybe?)
3. If it freezes that is ok. Flash the 2.2 rom. (might need to do it a couple times)
4. After successful flash then go to stock.

This needs a sticky!!!!!!!!!
I just did this. Wish I would have seen this thread first!

I'm having a really hard time getting to download mode. Read all the threads I could find on it.
Any ideas? Download mode isn't removed when partitioning with rom manager is it?
I'm trying not to freak out...

tsnow247 said:
I'm having a really hard time getting to download mode. Read all the threads I could find on it.
Any ideas? Download mode isn't removed when partitioning with rom manager is it?
I'm trying not to freak out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After fighting with it I found out this worked best for me:
Battery out
Plug in USB cord to the phone and PC
Hold Vol up and down
Put the battery in
Phone should boot right into download mode.
Also, I found you should have Odin open FIRST before you do this. If I didn't I would have constant issues with Odin hanging.

HELP. Disabling Voodo, phone is stuck in reboot for 1 hr +

Please help!!!, I have JT's Voodo (Ext 4 installed) on my samsung fascinate, and I tried deactivating it using the voodoo toggle app so that I could flash his super clean rom. Things appeared to go ok, but now i'm stuck on the reboot screen (have the droid peeing on apple) for an hour now. I know JT said wait it out, but I havent read about anybody having it in reboot for over an hour. I dont know what to do??????

You have a date with Adrynalyne's how to completely remove voodoo thread. Somewhere here in development.
good day. From the Fascinate sporting the XDA app.

chopper the dog said:
You have a date with Adrynalyne's how to completely remove voodoo thread. Somewhere here in development.
good day. From the Fascinate sporting the XDA app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link to adrynalyne's thread ----> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=804784&highlight=Voodoo+uninstaller
Good luck

Thanks ice. Not near a computer.
good day. From the Fascinate sporting the XDA app.

got that, and it's already not working. I can't get it to boot into recovery.
Boot to cwm (battery pull, and hold up volume while putting it back in and connected to usb),
when I do that, it just comes back up to the droid peeing boot screen.

Is it that hard to post your question in the right spot?

Hold both vol up and down and then power and that will get you to stock recovery.
highlight apply sdcard:update.zip and hit home button. Now you should be in Clockwork.
In clockwork the back button is accept.
good day.

Since it's a problem with voodoo developed for the fascinate, the developers of voodoo might know the best answer. And since there is no help and support section, this is the next best section to put it.

Hold both vol up & vol down then hold power until you see "SAMSUNG" then release only the power button - keep holding vol up & vol down until you enter stock recovery.
Once in stock recovery use the volume rocker to select "Apply update.zip" you will need to use the "home" soft button to select it. This should get you into Clockworkmod recovery.

Don't mind him he could give a **** about lending a hand with a borked device. He could have sent a pm to the mod to have it moved. Hope your devoodooing works.
good day.

cant get to clockwork from stock recovery
Ok, so part of that worked. I got into stock recovery, but I couldnt get into clockwork. I think it was because I moved the update.zip file into a folder on the sd card that I had made to keep all my rooting related zip files organized.
Am I totally screwed now, or can i do something to fix this??

Pull card from phone and use a reader to move it back to the right place.
good day.

Thank you, guess I'll be without a phone until I can track down a reader, or an adapter. My computer only reads mini and above.

should just be able to use adb to push CWM update.zip to SD root, and run that via reg recovery... then run the auto unvoodoo'er or manual method
I did this with no problems and then unvoodoo'd myself after a mess up. ADb should still be able to push a file if you are in recovery mode

ok, i ll give that a try. Thanks

I had the exact same problem and when I say exact thats what I mean. I could get into stock recovery but not clock work. finally I tried the update zip from stock recovery and with the vodoo it would not read it from the card. So what I did was push CWM back onto my phone through Odin and once I did that the update zip was back on the SD card and I could get onto CWM from there by choosing update.zip from stock recovery. Once I did that I pulled the SD card and put it in my HTC eris and went to adrynalyne's site and put the undo vodoo.zip on the SD card, thats the simple download at the bottom of the page. I put the card back in my fascinate and booted into stock recovery chose the update.zip which put me in CWM recovery and from there chose the undo vodoo.zip. when I hit reboot it did not take long at all but it was back to normal, give it a try ,wosked for me.

By the way, that vodoo on off switch app comes in very handy. But every time you turn it on or off you have to hit reboot in order for it to take effect. If you just tuned it off and started flashing you got vodooed

I put my card in a friend's phone to move the update.zip back to SDcard root. He left, so I ended up using adb push to put the voodoo_uinstall on my sd card. After a reset, and nandroid backup, I'm up and running pre-voodoo. I'm sure I'll be back on a version once I figure out which ROM (prob JT clean ROM) I want to flash on my phone.
Thanks for all the help everyone!

hey, question were you using the voodoo 11/02 stable from rom manager?

[UTILITY] G-Tablet Format

This fully erases the ROM but this will NOT affect the internal SD card
You MUST be able to use nvflash to restore the stock firmware.​
You must have already installed nvflash on your computer/have the APX driver
This will completely erase all traces of anything in the G-Tablet's ROM storage space - except the BCT - and user data (use CWM to erase userdata)
Many people with HTC Windows Mobile phones can think of this as a task 29 for the G-Tablet
After doing this, you must nvflash the stock ROM back on to your tablet by following the instructions here: nvflash restore

You may wanna explain what this is a little more fully before you get a ton of posts like " This rom screwed up my tablet completely, how do I fix it"
Just a suggestion

thebadfrog said:
You may wanna explain what this is a little more fully before you get a ton of posts like " This rom screwed up my tablet completely, how do I fix it"
Just a suggestion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Added a line I forgot to add.

So this is a "detox" program for our gtablet that we can choose to run prior to NVflash process.
And this process should not be done unless absolutely necessary, right?

xmr405o said:
So this is a "detox" program for our gtablet that we can choose to run prior to NVflash process.
And this process should not be done unless absolutely necessary, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, exactly. I just felt that I shouldn't keep this to myself.

rr5678 said:
Yes, exactly. I just felt that I shouldn't keep this to myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I would warn people though. Maybe a little disclaimer for yourself.

Very nice. If I ever need to use nvflash (and I absolutely pray I don't) I'll now at least feel better knowing that I'm starting with a clean slate.

Good to know that this tool is available.
You never know when you will need to push the jolly, candy like, history eraser button.
Sent from my Chromatic Magic using XDA Premium App

xmr405o said:
So this is a "detox" program for our gtablet that we can choose to run prior to NVflash process.
And this process should not be done unless absolutely necessary, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rr5678 said:
Yes, exactly. I just felt that I shouldn't keep this to myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition, if you're selling your G-Tablet, you may want to do this for that extra sense of security, knowing that nobody will have your Google account/password.

My G-Tablet is stuck on a black screen. I can't even tell if I'm stuck booting or if I'm in a ROM. Let the battery go dead overnight. Still can't boot. I was going to dive into the hardware and do a hard reset. But getting into the case is a pain!!!
I was wondering to use nvflash how booted up do I have to be?
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

jbirdvegas said:
My G-Tablet is stuck on a black screen. I can't even tell if I'm stuck booting or if I'm in a ROM. Let the battery go dead overnight. Still can't boot. I was going to dive into the hardware and do a hard reset. But getting into the case is a pain!!!
I was wondering to use nvflash how booted up do I have to be?
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try plugging it into your PC and see if the computer recognizes the tablet? It may even be in APX mode (the mode for nvflash)

I get errors after performing the format, something about a "mismatch" and something about "kernel". The errors are in red font as opposed to the white font. Is there something im doing wrong or is this common, but I doubt it. Anyways after those errors I have to reenter apx mode and I flash nvflash BUT...after successfully restoring it to factory I get into a boot loop at the tap n tap logo crap. Any suggestions? Thanks for the help!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

ACis0014 said:
I get errors after performing the format, something about a "mismatch" and something about "kernel". The errors are in red font as opposed to the white font. Is there something im doing wrong or is this common, but I doubt it. Anyways after those errors I have to reenter apx mode and I flash nvflash BUT...after successfully restoring it to factory I get into a boot loop at the tap n tap logo crap. Any suggestions? Thanks for the help!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. The mismatch thing is normal. Remember, there is completely no data after you run the format tool. After that, just flash stock. But since it seems that your data partition is unmountable, use nvflash to install ClockworkMod, and while in ClockworkMod, repartition the internal SD card. The options to choose are 2048 and 0

rr5678 said:
Yes. The mismatch thing is normal. Remember, there is completely no data after you run the format tool. After that, just flash stock. But since it seems that your data partition is unmountable, use nvflash to install ClockworkMod, and while in ClockworkMod, repartition the internal SD card. The options to choose are 2048 and 0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply! How would I get around to do that? Do you mean flash cwm through adb?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
EDIT: Nvm got it. Turns out you just have to DL cwm 0.8 and replace part9.img with whatever you call your DL of cwm. tHEN just flash stock + YOUR NEW RECOVERY (cwm 0.8) using nvflash

rr5678 said:
Did you try plugging it into your PC and see if the computer recognizes the tablet? It may even be in APX mode (the mode for nvflash)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No dice. Computer won't recognize and can't boot into bootloader or custom recovery. Power up just shows blank black screen no kernel logo or boot animation just black. Truely stumped
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

rr5678 said:
Yes. The mismatch thing is normal. Remember, there is completely no data after you run the format tool. After that, just flash stock. But since it seems that your data partition is unmountable, use nvflash to install ClockworkMod, and while in ClockworkMod, repartition the internal SD card. The options to choose are 2048 and 0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks brother. Got it after a little looking around. Turns out it's pretty darn easy lol

jbirdvegas said:
No dice. Computer won't recognize and can't boot into bootloader or custom recovery. Power up just shows blank black screen no kernel logo or boot animation just black. Truely stumped
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may have to do this
buzzzard said:
If you have managed to find yourself in a situation where APX will not work due to a mangled bootloader, and your battery is dead as well, you can follow the instructions in this guide.
So here are the steps needed to get to a charging state:
1. Disassemble the tablet. Remove the four rubber stoppers on the bottom of the tablet (put them aside). Next, unscrew the screws under them (keep those too). Next we need to get the back half of the tablet off. Put the tablet face down on a piece of paper or another protective material. Gently work one corner of the tablet until the two halves are slightly separated, then use something thin like a business card to keep them slightly parted. You can then use something thin and strong, like a plastic gift card to zip around the edges and break the seal. Prying will only damage your plastics.
2. Disconnect the battery lead (a flat connector with multicolored wires, probably held down with tape. Look near the battery.)
3. Connect the device via USB.
4. Short (connect) the four contacts circled in the photo. (A smallish square of tinfoil works well for this. Be careful.)
5. Press the power button for 2-3 seconds and release.
6. Disconnect the tinfoil shorting tool.
7. The APX device should be detected on your computer.
8. NVFlash a working bootloader.
9. Disconnect the AC adapter.
10. Reconnect your battery.
11. Reconnect the power until your device is charged.
Thanks everyone!
-Buzz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the 4 contacts are the switch labbeled K2
ACis0014 said:
Thanks brother. Got it after a little looking around. Turns out it's pretty darn easy lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you got it working. Now if I may suggest a nice flashing of the Vegan-Tab ROM.

Ill give this a try when I get home thanks for all the help so far ill let you know if that works
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

curiously after using the format I get the red notice, but once I re-flash with the recovery nvflash my boot animation is back...

P00r said:
curiously after using the format I get the red notice, but once I re-flash with the recovery nvflash my boot animation is back...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you get the red notice because everything was erased.

[Q] how do I???

this was my original post.....
did what all my friends told me to do, who have the evo apparently a bad mistake. used unrevoked to root my evo, worked perfect. stoked!! downloaded titanium backup, backed up everything, worked great. still happy. went to install a rom (i guess) it told me i needed to change my kernel and had a link to the market for a kernel downloader. downloaded the app looked through bout five different kernels, all had good reviews and stable... downloaded the one with the most downloads (6700 or something). asked download? i said yes. asked flask now? i said yes. it said flash complete reboot coming... rebooted got to the HTC EVO 4G white screen sat there for bout 15 seconds and shut off tried to reboot again same thing. bout ten times in a row so i pulled the battery. did a hard reset didnt fix, did a wipe, didnt fix.... did not make a nandroid back up...oops
anyone know what i can do please help.. thank you
some people said i can download a new rom drag it to my sd card once the card is mounted to the computer. so i tried (3 different roms) and it will not let me drag it to the sd card folder once i put it on my desktop. how do i fix my phone???? lol

Are you dragging the ROM from computer to SD while in recovery?

mlin said:
Are you dragging the ROM from computer to SD while in recovery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no my phone will not boot up i just have the sd card mounted phone by my side off. i was told to drag the rom into sd card then reinstall into phone go to recovery mode and unzip the filed rom from the sd card through the phone using the volume buttons and lock button to select.
but it wll not let me drag the rom into the sd card to even get that far

Answer is to find another kernel (stock or otherwise) and put it on the SD Card. Then boot into Recovery and flash it.

Sounds like you may have loaded an ASOP kernel on a Sense Rom. What you are gonna need to do is pull out the SD Card and connect to your computer with a USB adapter so SD Card reader if you Laptop/PC has one. Download a SENSE Rom kernel and flash that in Recovery. If that doesn't work. put the phone back to stock and start over. Also, you might want to copy the Titanium Backup folder to your PC, just in case.

Post in the wrong section?
Install the correct kernel for my rom?
Give enough info so people can help me?
Ruin my phone by being a moron?
Not know how to use adb, fastboot or the bootloader because I rooted with a method that teaches me nothing about the phone?
Sorry was just playing the "finish my thread title game"
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Rem3Dy said:
Post in the wrong section?
Install the correct kernel for my rom?
Give enough info so people can help me?
Ruin my phone by being a moron?
Not know how to use adb, fastboot or the bootloader because I rooted with a method that teaches me nothing about the phone?
Sorry was just playing the "finish my thread title game"
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're so mean lmao, but so true. Bottom line, a little research never hurt anyone. Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned. Good luck op.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

So, have I bricked my phone?

Used ROM Manager and downloaded Leedriod 3.0, ran Terminal Emulator and did everything by the book. Went into ClockWork Recovery mode and everything looked okay. Then went to HTC boot animation screen and that's where it has been ever since. Every five minutes or so I get the delightful sound of HTC and a permanently on HTC, Quietly Brilliant Boot screen. It's been going like that for about 25 minutes now.
Any help would be appreciated.

No its not bricked, its in bootloop.
This is what i do when it happens to me:
Pull out the battery. If the phone is off, turn it back on with volume down + power on button. Wait till you get the bootloader screen. Now select recovery. In ClockWork Recovery you can set your backup back. (if you had made one before).
I hope its helps you. Goodluck.

Or just copy another rom file to the sd card and flash again.

Unfortunately I made the classic error of not backing up first, was trying to do this while in work (not good) so I presume at this point I'm screwed

joooe said:
Or just copy another rom file to the sd card and flash again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will try that tonight.

It doesn't hurt to try to flash the rom you already have once again.

Just what joooe said. Use super wipe to clear data. just for sure.
Good luck.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App

Just a quick thanks to you guys, did Super Wipe and installed Android Revolution 6.20 last night and all went well. It was worth the screw up to have the small learning curve in the end

I did this one of the first times i flashed roms
i did have abackup first but its a scary experience lol