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From what I have seen, most battery life comparisons/stats are usually done with the phone in standby/screen off majority of the time.
I decided to do it the other way.
Last night to this morning:
I tried charging my battery to 100% but time constraints only had me charge it to around 84% (late for work).
I don't use/have a charger at work nor do I have one in my car. I work 8 hours straight (11pm - 7am) and I almost always stream pandora the entire time.
I am using the seidio extended battery and the only thing that stays off is wifi when I am not within range of any kind of open network (starbucks) or my own saved connection list. 4g/3g, gps, and background data are constantly on.
So, from 84% left the house and started streaming pandora in the car. Get to work about 15 minutes later with no interruption in streaming (just turned the volume down). I do shut off my screen while streaming when I put the phone in my pocket.
Surfed the web, watched some youtube videos, checked gmail and facebook (which auto sync about every hour and gmail notifies me of every single email I get), and played some games here and there (nothing great) throughout the night.
Basically my intent was to never let the phone sit and do nothing. The entire time pandora was streaming (browsing the net and streaming, checking gmail/facebook and streaming) but youtube would always stop pandora.
Got 8 hours of constant use. I don't want to say moderate/light/heavy as that scale changes from person to person. Moderate for one person may be heavy for the next.
I charged the battery in the phone because I don't have an external charger for it. Although I may get one because my charging method still involves me taking the battery out of the phone.
No task killers, no setcpu (I am rooted), no custom rom (from the dev forum).
I am using bakedsnack kernel #4, launcherpro, and I have personally uninstalled a crap load of stuff (even htc sense and rosie altogether).
My opinion is that all these gimmicks that we have to go through to get good battery life while in standy are not necessary. What is necessary is for the charging system in the evo to be revamped. This is my own opinion, but I think the charging system in the evo skips stage 2 of the charging process http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm which is why (this is what I think, I am no expert) so many people see the sudden drop from 100% down to whatever shortly after they unplug their charger.
It kind of makes sense as to why some people who charge their stock batteries in the ebay externals get better battery life, it's because they are actually being charged properly.
Again, this is just my opinion and I am in no way an expert on this. Just disclosing my experience and observations of my phone and it's behavior. Take from it what you will.
That's pretty amazing dude. Me personally would consider your use for this test to be pretty heavy. I'm more than impressed to see 37% battery life. And from what I've been reading up on the external charger is definitely the way to go. Although it's quite a pain to have to charge our evos like this just for maximum battery life. Hopefully in the future releases of phones we won't have tis do things like this. As mentioned in another post the switching of the battery to charge it will eventually make the back door loose or maybe even break sooner than planned, which is a problem for people who don't have extra doors. I guess it's not a bad investment to buy extra doors though.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
lovethyEVO said:
From what I have seen, most battery life comparisons/stats are usually done with the phone in standby/screen off majority of the time.
I decided to do it the other way.
I am using the seidio extended battery
My opinion is that all these gimmicks that we have to go through to get good battery life while in standy are not necessary.
It kind of makes sense as to why some people who charge their stock batteries in the ebay externals get better battery life, it's because they are actually being charged properly.
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Click to collapse
Here is my take and i edited your post down to the points i am discussing.
First I like the fact you realize most battery tests and many of the people getting ridiculous battery life are idle most of the time (even if they say they are moderate use normally they have 1-3 hours of moderate use out of the 30 hours battery life they claim). I think showing actual usage time is much more impressive.
Now if you are going to do a battery post and talk about opinions and what your battery life is ... i don't suggest using an extended battery. you show that over aprox 8 hours of use (wont classify it as heavy moderate etc since you didnt) you lost about 50% the problem here is the extended battery from seidio has a much larger capacity then your standard htc battery that comes with evo (even if it doesnt actually have the 3500mah it is still a lot more). On a est i did i could play a movie on a stock battery for just over 5 hours before the battery drained using nothing but the stock install of a rom and without changing settings to turn things off etc. So in my opinion the battery life you are showing is actually a little low for that battery but that not really the point.
now as for the evo charging incorrectly. the reason why peoples batteries drop quickly the first 20-30 minutes (for most who have a correctly calibrated "battery") is because EVO doesn't have a trickle charge. this doesnt mean the evo isnt charging the battery correctly. the idea behind not having a trickle charge is it helps prolong the life of the battery it self at the cost of 0-10% charge depending on where it is when you take it off the charger.
While i personally would rather have the trickle charge and have to buy replacement batteries more often. it isnt that the evo charges incorrectly it. They jsut made the choice to try to make the battery itself last as long as possible at the cost of some battery use time depending on when you take it off the charger.
These are my latest seidio 3500 numbers with correct battery conditioning. Going to try and duplicate these numbers. Most of about 10 hours was slacker and pandora. This was from 100 to 14 percent on 3500 seidio. Pics for your pleasure and debate. I was able to get another 8 hours standby from this point and hour of lets golf before battery died. That was my 2nd conditioning of the battery. Going on 3rd full slow trickle charge up now. The trickle charge on battery wall charger takes about 12 hours wtf but worth it. I just use my cheap china 3000mah to cover the time.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
omegasun18 said:
Here is my take and i edited your post down to the points i am discussing.
First I like the fact you realize most battery tests and many of the people getting ridiculous battery life are idle most of the time (even if they say they are moderate use normally they have 1-3 hours of moderate use out of the 30 hours battery life they claim). I think showing actual usage time is much more impressive.
Now if you are going to do a battery post and talk about opinions and what your battery life is ... i don't suggest using an extended battery. you show that over aprox 8 hours of use (wont classify it as heavy moderate etc since you didnt) you lost about 50% the problem here is the extended battery from seidio has a much larger capacity then your standard htc battery that comes with evo (even if it doesnt actually have the 3500mah it is still a lot more). On a est i did i could play a movie on a stock battery for just over 5 hours before the battery drained using nothing but the stock install of a rom and without changing settings to turn things off etc. So in my opinion the battery life you are showing is actually a little low for that battery but that not really the point.
now as for the evo charging incorrectly. the reason why peoples batteries drop quickly the first 20-30 minutes (for most who have a correctly calibrated "battery") is because EVO doesn't have a trickle charge. this doesnt mean the evo isnt charging the battery correctly. the idea behind not having a trickle charge is it helps prolong the life of the battery it self at the cost of 0-10% charge depending on where it is when you take it off the charger.
While i personally would rather have the trickle charge and have to buy replacement batteries more often. it isnt that the evo charges incorrectly it. They jsut made the choice to try to make the battery itself last as long as possible at the cost of some battery use time depending on when you take it off the charger.
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50% loss over 8 hours of near constant use (my awake time shows that it did manage to sleep somehow even though I streamed pandora constantly) on any battery (extended or not) is actually a good thing as it shows that even with the phone fully bogged down (almost all radios on) it can last a full work day (which is what most people are concerned about).
I still believe the evo does not charge the batteries correctly and it is not solely related on the absence of a trickle charge.
Again, from my observations over the course of the past three weeks. I started with what my battery was calibrated to according to the phone. Let it drain down to about 15% (according to the phone) and wiped the battery stats and did a different charging method from the htc "rain dance".
Here is where my opinion of the evo not charging properly comes into play.
From 15% to 100% charge (charged while phone and screen are on to monitor voltage, temp, mA draw, etc.) took about an hour +/- a couple minutes. As soon as the led turned green (yes, I literally sat at my phone watching the percent slowly rise) I unplugged the charger and noted the resting voltage level and percent (according to three seperate battery status applications). Once noted, I powered down the phone. After the screen completely shut off I removed the battery and tested the voltage. I did this for my own information because I wanted to verify the phone itself was actually reporting the voltage levels correctly. It was.
Now, recall that I had just charged the phone to 100% and had wiped battery stats prior to charging.
Replaced the battery back into the phone and powered up. Normally people see a jump in battery percentage when they power down and back up. Not in my case. To my amazement, the evo reported my battery as being at 78% charge level. So I went from being 100% charged down to 78% percent charge all from powering down, removing the battery, checking voltage, and then replacing battery and powering up. Time to power down, remove, check voltage, replace and power up is somewhere around the one minute mark +/-.
Again, referencing the link I provided earlier about charging li-ion batteries, the evo seems to skip stage 2 of the charging process which usually results in about a 70% charge (according to the link).
Charged it again from the 78% mark to 100% and the charging time took just over an hour to get back to 100%. Same routine, check voltage on phone, power down, remove battery, check voltage on mmeter, replace battery, power on, check levels.
Second time around I dropped from 100% charge to about 89%. Voltage levels were always accurate. Charged again and took about another hour +/- and finally achieved a charge to where it would not fall or rise between a power down (97% seems to be my cap which is fine since I don't want to truly charge the battery to 100%).
To test the discharge rate I tried my best to keep the battery running condition identical for each discharge run.
I monitored the battery temp, cpu temp, battery voltage, amp draw, and cpu load.
Streaming only pandora and nothing else I usually managed to keep the amp draw to around 300 - 360mA with the screen on. This was my way of measuring the discharge rate without access to equipment that could give the battery a steady discharge load.
Every time the percentage dropped one I would note the volts, temps, amp draw and cpu load. Across the board temps and cpu load remained close to constant as the phone wasn't doing too much multitasking.
At this point, I have about 4 full voltage readouts from 100% down to 15%. Without wiping battery stats, if I charge the phone with my method (charge to 100%, power down, remove battery, replace battery, power up and recharge) my past voltage readouts coincide with my battery readouts on the phone (87% falls within a certain voltage range and so on) but if I just charge the battery until the phone says it's 100% then the readouts on the phone no longer fall within my past readouts until I go back to my charging method. This tells me that if I let the evo charge the battery the way it is programmed to (hardware or software) then it is not actually charging the battery to its full potential (not necessarily 100%).
Across the board the cpu load and the temps rarely drastically changed as it wasn't running multiple tasks at once. This is just my own observations and tests that I did/started doing for my own intellectual reference.
I have done the same charging method with my wife's evo and stock battery (1500 htc oem). I wiped her stats but only managed to get two full voltage readouts with her phone. She has stated that her battery does last longer than before and she is only rooted to remove bloatware. She is running stock rom, stock kernel, no task killers, no memory managers, and her radios and settings are close to mine (she gets more mail and facebook notifications than I do).
Again, this is just my opinion and personal observations. I did this solely because I got tired of having to constantly turn things on and off just to use them. My past phones never had this problem and I don't think the evo should have to be babied just to get good battery life. I still believe it all lies in the charging system of the phone and not necessarily the battery (extended versus stock).
Hey, what battery conditioning did you guys do? There's a ton of different suggestions and I am wondering if one or two have finally been proven to not be placebo.
I decided to do the HTC charging method when I changed roms to cm6. I went into hboot after and wipe stats. Turned on and took about 20 minutes to get to 98% using internet. Anyways I let phone die. Plug it in and I have system monitory with history monitoring. So I go to bed, and wake up to expect 100%. Nope 80%. Checked the monitor and trickled from 80% to 70% for 2 whole hours. I did the HTC thing again for full charge. Repeated. Only charges to 80%!!!! I changed roms. Same thing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
martyzidek said:
I decided to do the HTC charging method when I changed roms to cm6. I went into hboot after and wipe stats. Turned on and took about 20 minutes to get to 98% using internet. Anyways I let phone die. Plug it in and I have system monitory with history monitoring. So I go to bed, and wake up to expect 100%. Nope 80%. Checked the monitor and trickled from 80% to 70% for 2 whole hours. I did the HTC thing again for full charge. Repeated. Only charges to 80%!!!! I changed roms. Same thing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your situation also points to my opinion that the charging system on the evo does not charge correctly. I am also thinking that the battery stats dont play a huge role but I still jave more monitoring to do.
I also prefer the constant-use benchmarks, and did one myself as well. Charge to 100% and then stream DI.fm using XiiaLive (96Kbps MP3) through WiFi (router in same room) + full brightness + screen ON (no timeout). My poor Evo lasted 3:55 before forced shutdown . Btw, running Fresh v3.1.0.2 with netarchy v4.1.8-cfs, no SetCPU or any other "battery saving" tools.
frifox said:
I also prefer the constant-use benchmarks, and did one myself as well. Charge to 100% and then stream DI.fm using XiiaLive (96Kbps MP3) through WiFi (router in same room) + full brightness + screen ON (no timeout). My poor Evo lasted 3:55 before forced shutdown . Btw, running Fresh v3.1.0.2 with netarchy v4.1.8-cfs, no SetCPU or any other "battery saving" tools.
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Click to collapse
I am at work now and when I get home I plan on charging the stock battery as best as I can and doing another constant use run to satisfy the crowd who run the stock battery.
Is this the definitive way to do it?
http://hemorrdroids.net/battery-calibration/
Those steps came from here, xda devs.
1. Run the device down until it turns itself off.
2. Turn it back on and wait for it to turn itself off again.
3. Remove the battery for 10 seconds.
4. Replace the battery, but leave the device off.
5. Charge the device until full and then for another hour.
6 **Root users only** Using a Terminal Emulator, type “su” enter, followed by “rm /data/system/batterystats.bin”
7. Run the device’s battery down until it turns itself off.
8 .Turn the device on and charge for at least 8 hours.
9. Unplug the device, turn off, then charge for another hour.
10. Unplug the device, turn on, wait 2 minutes.
11.Turn off again and charge for another hour.
12. Restart and use as normal.
Quite a performance! Does it preserve battery lifespan, or is it more to do with slowing down battery drain and does it really work?
He mentions 2 interesting things:
"Generally charge them before they get lower than 50%". I didn't know that, so it's actually better to charge more often and not let it drain down?
"USB charging is actually better for the battery and you may get up to 1 hours more standby time." So you gain an hour standby but it takes twice as long to charge the phone.
Nice manual
Will try it
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Some will say that its complete nonsense .
Overcharge for 8 hours ??? how does the battery not turn charging off at 100%
Recharge 50% the accepted figure is not to go below 20% to often .
They may be right or wrong their are so many contrasting views on battery charging .
jje
Discharging battery and then reloading it fully, it's the normal procedure for battery calibration for almost all the devices in the world (including computers, etc.).
Step 8 to 11 seems quite a bit strange however.
hm, just seen a different way to calibrate the battery. basically, you drain the battery, take it out for a couple of minutes, put back in, then try to turn it on to make sure it's completely flat.
then you charge it fully, then boot to recovery and wipe battery stats then drain and fully charge. so... which one is more likely to be the better?
that guy also advises to repeat that 12 step, 1-2 day long tedious procedure "every month or so".
it is lunacy honestly speaking
does it work? did he died ?
LOL I dont understand .... I just read in another day that NEVER LET BATTERY GO LOWER THAN 15% and know I read "drain drain drain" Oh welll ...
I also thought that at 100% the charging process stops.
Although this thread is about battery calibration, these questions about battery charging always pop up.
Battery calibration is the process by which you set your device with your battery data.
Every single battery is slightly different. Although there are minimum stantards to every spec of the battery, each battery is different.
Calibrating your battery is nothing more than setting your phone to the real specs of your own battery (since the phone comes configured with the battery factory standards). For example, your phone may be set to use a battery which maximum charge is 1650 mAh, but your battery has a maximum charge of 1625 mAh. That may be within the acceptable factory standard, meaning you have a normal battery, but that also means that your phone will never indicate a 100% charge after you unplug the charger.
If you calibrate that hypothetical battery, you will "tell" your phone that its maximum charge capacity is actually 1625 mAh, meaning from that on your phone's battery indicator will be more accurate.
For that reason, it is necessary to fully discharge and fully recharge your battery for the calibration process, since your device must read the actual specs (minimum charge, maximum charge, charging current, etc) of the installed battery.
I don't know about how many times this full cicle (discharging and recharging) must be performed, but that is the reason why it must be performed for the calibration to succed.
A DIFFERENT THING is the normal discharging and charging process during normal use of the phone.
In this case, you should NEVER let your battery go under 20% and, what few people know, it also should never go over 95%. This stresses the battery and diminish its life time.
Also, and there's a lot of doubts about this, the lower the charging voltage, the slower the charging process, but the longer the battery life.
High charging voltages (like the one used by the charger sold with the phone, which is around 5V) stress the battery, diminishing considerably its life time.
That is true for all lithium-ion batteries!
Therefore it is better to charge your phone through USB (which uses around 4,3V) than to do it using the charger provided with the phone.
You may be asking "If the charging voltage of the charger provided by the manufacturer stresses the battery, why does the manufacturer provide such charger?"
For purely commercial reasons! Higher voltages mean shorter charging cycles, which please the consummer. Moreover, the battery capacity loss with the factory provided charger is around 15-20% a year (considering "normal" to "heavy" use). That is to say that after a year your battery will only reach 80-85% of the maximum charge it used to reach when it was new. And by that time your manufacturer expects you to consider buying a new phone, with more features.
Summing it up:
- calibration is just the process by which you "tell" your phone what the real specs of your battery;
- in normal use, charging your phone through USB is better than doing it with the manufacturer provided charger;
- try not to let your battery charge go under 20% nor above 95%;
- if you're interested, read more about it at batteryuniversity.com
Spin three times in clockwise direction with left middle finger on your nose while blinking your eyes with the phone plugged in.
Jump in the air 3 times.
Unplug phone.
Thats some messed up instructions.
Do you have any idea what kind of strain you're putting on the battery while doing all that?
All you're gonna get is some extra minutes, maybe an hour but is it really worth it because you're just reducing overall battery lifespan by doing that procedure over and over.
Specially when you constantly keep the battery at 4200mV (full charge) for a long time. You're practically killing it by overcharging.
Transmitted from a Galaxy far far away via XDA telepathy.
m2smoe said:
Spin three times in clockwise direction with left middle finger on your nose while blinking your eyes with the phone plugged in.
Jump in the air 3 times.
Unplug phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that made me chuckle
Never done a calibration on a battery and most of the time i even didn't let battery to discarge very much and then load it again. Never had a problem with battery life it last how long it should last every time and i've used that battery for years. So the battery "calibration" are kinda useless.
Matriak31 said:
that made me chuckle
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Click to collapse
Well then, my job here is done
m2smoe said:
Well then, my job here is done
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Click to collapse
it is indeed...i should follow you just to have more laughs like that cheers
RenatoN said:
Although this thread is about battery calibration, these questions about battery charging always pop up.
Battery calibration is the process by which you set your device with your battery data.
Every single battery is slightly different. Although there are minimum stantards to every spec of the battery, each battery is different.
Calibrating your battery is nothing more than setting your phone to the real specs of your own battery (since the phone comes configured with the battery factory standards). For example, your phone may be set to use a battery which maximum charge is 1650 mAh, but your battery has a maximum charge of 1625 mAh. That may be within the acceptable factory standard, meaning you have a normal battery, but that also means that your phone will never indicate a 100% charge after you unplug the charger.
If you calibrate that hypothetical battery, you will "tell" your phone that its maximum charge capacity is actually 1625 mAh, meaning from that on your phone's battery indicator will be more accurate.
For that reason, it is necessary to fully discharge and fully recharge your battery for the calibration process, since your device must read the actual specs (minimum charge, maximum charge, charging current, etc) of the installed battery.
I don't know about how many times this full cicle (discharging and recharging) must be performed, but that is the reason why it must be performed for the calibration to succed.
A DIFFERENT THING is the normal discharging and charging process during normal use of the phone.
In this case, you should NEVER let your battery go under 20% and, what few people know, it also should never go over 95%. This stresses the battery and diminish its life time.
Also, and there's a lot of doubts about this, the lower the charging voltage, the slower the charging process, but the longer the battery life.
High charging voltages (like the one used by the charger sold with the phone, which is around 5V) stress the battery, diminishing considerably its life time.
That is true for all lithium-ion batteries!
Therefore it is better to charge your phone through USB (which uses around 4,3V) than to do it using the charger provided with the phone.
You may be asking "If the charging voltage of the charger provided by the manufacturer stresses the battery, why does the manufacturer provide such charger?"
For purely commercial reasons! Higher voltages mean shorter charging cycles, which please the consummer. Moreover, the battery capacity loss with the factory provided charger is around 15-20% a year (considering "normal" to "heavy" use). That is to say that after a year your battery will only reach 80-85% of the maximum charge it used to reach when it was new. And by that time your manufacturer expects you to consider buying a new phone, with more features.
Summing it up:
- calibration is just the process by which you "tell" your phone what the real specs of your battery;
- in normal use, charging your phone through USB is better than doing it with the manufacturer provided charger;
- try not to let your battery charge go under 20% nor above 95%;
- if you're interested, read more about it at batteryuniversity.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should post the source for your info, cause I am seeing a lot of incorrect information in here.
If you guys want to learn about your battery, visit the site Battery University
The OEM replacement battery is worth about $10.
Save yourself the stress....use it...charge it when you need to...if the battery ever fails cough up $10.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
The way I would calibrate my batteries is a bit different. Lithium ion batteries don't need to be drained then charged to full AFAIK, and I even remember reading somewhere that draining it is actually only for NiCad batteries. It used to be relevant when phones were using NiCad but not anymore.
Read: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
As such I have read that the universal way to 'calibrate' batteries is by charging to full, using for a couple of mins and charging again.
What I have been doing is:
1. Charge to full when phone is switched off (doesn't matter if it's from 0% or 99%).
2. Switch on the phone, use for 5 mins.
3. Switch off then charge until full.
4. Repeat step 2 once more
That's it! It seems pretty simple but it seems to have worked for me.
The way i do it is different. Firstly i have the battery calibration app from the market by Nema..then i fully charge my phone and when it says its fully charge i go into the app. There it gives me the instructions on how to calibrate...First i wait till i charge the phone without any interruptions. then click on the app and wait til the battery goes to 4200MV and then i press the calibrate button and then the app does it for me. Then i drain the battery again without any interuptions or breaks during that time and then charge it again once battery dies down and thats it.
there are so many ways being touted on the forums you really dont know which one to go for...but whatever works for each person then who are we to tell someone different just thought i share that
If my battery dies, or gets significally lower capacity after 1 or 2 years of usage, I'll just buy a new one if I plan to keep the phone longer.. Going through these rituals and painstakenly monitor my battery % so that it never goes below 20 % or above 95 % is just not worth it.. Doesn't increase the life THAT much anyway.. I use the phone until I hear the beep for low batt, and from there until I have a charger available.. Most of the time it's before it reaches 10 %, thats good enough for me.. Once in a while it might even go so far that it dies.. Then I charge it till it says 100 %.. Most of the times I plug it when going to bed, and let it charge over night.. This is normal usage and what the battery should be designed to handle, and so far it does..
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
lin013190 said:
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
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Click to collapse
Mine came nearly full. I just plugged it into charger out of the box and played with it while it was charging
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
With any new phone I always play with it till it dies and then plug it in and charge for 8 hours and then power it on and good to go
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Hmm, I see.:cyclops:
With every electronic gadget using Lithium-ion batteries nowadays, it doesn't really matter how/when you charge it.
Some would argue to make sure to allow a full discharge from a full charge from a battery calibration point of view, so the battery meter is more accurate. It wouldn't affect the health of the battery itself either way.
Things like memory effect doesn't apply to lithium-ion. How often you charge it and how much you charge it (full or partial charge etc.) doesn't affect it much either. The only 2 things that can potential kill a lithium-ion is high temperature and letting it discharge far too low to the point that it cannot be charged up again. Note that all electronic devices will power off way before it even reaches this threshold.
What makaijin says is correct
I had mine a bit of a charge yesterday but it was no where near full.
Used it till it was flat this morning. It's currently on charge and I'm going to leave it till it's full only because I need to stop messing with it and do other things
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I charged mine for 4 hours before use.
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
hanthesolo said:
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
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Click to collapse
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Ifixit shows that the battery inside the Nexus 7 is Lithium Polymer. Does that make a difference in terms of conditioning compared to Li-Ion batteries?
MaxCarnage said:
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
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Click to collapse
Oh, thanks. I thought that was my being paranoid .
Lithium Polymer batteries are actually worse than Lithium-Ion. Don't take my word for it, but at least with older RC Lipo batteries, fully discharging damages them even more the lithium-ion. I am sure the tablet cuts off way before the danger point, but still something to keep in mind.
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
phoneman09 said:
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
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Not sure but you can always tap the power button to pull up the battery charge animation. It should let you know when it is fully charged.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
TP_NC_USER said:
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
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I would rather always have my battery near max charge when I take it off the charger than have a battery last 7 years instead of 3 or 4 in a device I will realistically only use extensively for 2. Even more so with a phone where they battery can replaced for $20. I'll take a full charge every time over the battery lasting for years longer than I need it to.
I have a first gen iPod Touch I bought when they were released (2007 I think?). I have left it on a charger for MONTHS. Still holds a decent charge.
Is there benefit to using a battery calibration app like this if you're rooted?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nema.batterycalibration&hl=en
You don't have to but I like to. Mine was like 40% charged when I unboxed
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
sRDennyCrane said:
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
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Click to collapse
Calibration occurs every time the battery is charged to 100%. It isn't a "first few days" type of thing, it is every single time the battery meter reaches 100%.
I had no choice but to completely charge my N7 (purchased from Office Depot 7/14). When I went to turn it on the first time, I was greeted with small text in the upper left side of the screen that said "show low battery logo" on a completely black screen. No logo...no nothing. Completely blank. Plugged it in, the battery charging logo popped up, fully charged it and it's been working great since.
However, I found it a bit odd as I thought most of these types of devices ship with about a 40% battery charge.
Thoughts?
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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Click to collapse
That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Hello!
I just received my new S7 edge and boy I love it. I have charged it only twice and now as it is 11 pm and my phone is left with just 17% battery, I need to charge it.
So I usually charged my old HTC One M7 overnight, not thinking about how it might ruin or damage the battery.
But how about the S7 edge? When does the adapter in the outlet know, when to stop charging?
The S7 supports fast charging, which I am using.
But with 6 hours of sleep, won't it over-charge overnight?
Since it's still sending small electrical pulses into the battery even though it's full.
Please help me!
Charging overnight shouldn't do damage. However, try to decrease use of fast charging. It creates more heat than normal charging, and heat exposure damages the battery.
You also want to charge your battery before it hits 40%. This is due to how lithium ion batteries work. Also, most recommendations say charge only to 80%.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
*
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
No harm in leaving it plugged in all night and charging to 100%. The phone controls the battery from being overcharged, not the charger. I've switched off fast charging on mine, as that can be hard on a battery over time and I have no need for it charge any faster than overnight.
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
Saridas said:
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
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No it won't. It just makes the battery last longer before it needs replacement. It's not going to affect how fast you drain your battery because that's dependent on your usage.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk