Related
Ok, is this *normal* that one by one the devs (jac, kk, sombionix and the rest of tw, and now - eugene373) proclaimed, effectively, that are abandoning (at least to a certain degree) xda? Their personal conflicts (which are unlikely our business) aside, is there anything else that feeds this tendency? In particular, are the xda modes doing enough (or anything at all?) to diffuse and perhaps reverse the trend? Or am I wrong to assume that this would be their business? I witnessed that 90% of (sane) xda members are being as supportive as ever to devs. There are, of course, the challenged ones, but it's the internet. So I don't see anything that regular (sane) members did wrong. And yet the facts are... disturbing.
P.S. Oh, and, after a week of admiring 'wannaby modes' nonsense here, do you mind not telling me that this thread doesn't belong to general or is off-topic? The point of this is to discuss if anything can be done to prevent that many see as an unfortunate trend in *vibrant* section.
I don't know about JAC or KK, because they are the older developers who works on the I9000 model before I even get a chance to visit XDA.
I believe that Team Whiskey moved out because they want to have their own support forum, with dedicated Donator Section for their supporters. Also to provide more ROM specific support for their ROMS.
As for Eugene, I am not too sure, but it may be due to people no respecting his work?
P.S. When did Eugene said that he is 'leaving' XDA?
He never said this. But he explicitly said that he is abandoning specific xda threads (which is, obviously, his full right) and will be posting only on his site.
i can understand this. Its starting to turn into a business, if they want to post their work that they put time into on their own website, that is their full right, and it makes sense. And it shouldnt be that big of a deal, its not that hard to make an account on either of their websites to gain access to their forums. So if they want to make their ROM's a little more private, then i give permission haha
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
Just because they're leaving XDA doesn't mean they're gonna stop coding. And all of the devs know quite well that XDA is the best place to inform people about their ROMs.
Oh well I hope team whiskey makes a mobile app for theyre site
Still flashing , thanks to odin
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
Keeping it classy, o yeah.
XDA is the hub... their sites are the gold mines.
Keep supporting the developers as much as you can, and that Vibrant is going to always be in tip-top form.
Master™ said:
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed what kk was banned for possibly a little before my time here
Still flashing , thanks to odin
I try to keep the Wiki updated with information. Although it is not mine to house hold so if anyone else want to add their 2 cents to the wiki please do so. Eugene just want to post his stuff in his forum for what the other people mentioned. Which is his full right. And is still going to keep tabs on XDA as it is a good place to get together.
reuthermonkey said:
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
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Click to collapse
Ok, so maybe the xda mods need to show a bit more flexibility to better accommodate devs needs? Check either TW or Eugene's forums. Essentially, they replicate (nearly 1:1) the structure of xda vibrant sections. I understand that devs want more control over their threads and better organization. But it seems to me that it wouldn’t be that hard to implement the same right here:
A) create a separate sticky for each developer’s project
B) give devs certain mod rights within their threads
Again, I am certainly not against personal web sites, etc. And in no way am I trying to critisize the devs here (obviously it's their right to do whatever they feel like doing!). I am just trying to understand if xda is adopting to the situation. Maybe some small changes at xda can help to prevent the further devs fragmentation. I think nobody would want to see xda becoming just a hub for links to personal sites. Discussion, exchange of ideas, healthy competition (ok, this one may need to be put on hold for a while), comparative reviews like the one that swehes is doing are SO MUCH better when devs are actively participating.
EDIT: Actually, I suspect that if devs had a right to edit their own threads, some (if not most) conflicts would have never become public at the first place.
And the thread was closed... (Dissent causes censure).
Fellow Community: Something going arawy in the Samsung I9100 (Galaxy S2) forums.
The purpose of me opening this thread is to ensure community discussion occurs.
With good intentions, our User Experinance Admin @sveitus has sliced apart The Samsung Galaxy S II Android Development, hiving off `the cream` into The Samsung Galaxy S II Original ROM development thread.
The idea being to Quoting (and please read @sveitus's post in case I'm selectively quoting) the explanitory thread
This forum is for ROMs that aren't an original creation by you in terms of the underlying software, meaning, they've been either 1. developed with assistance from a kitchen or are 2. a re-skinning/re-themeing/minor adjustment of a particular ROM developed by someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Original ROM's are now found within this subforum
Setting aside the lunacy of thinking that anything apart from ASOP and Samsung's stock ROM isn't derived from something else... or the difficulties in determining which belongs in one thread or another (just watch them bouncy from one to another), I find a two things contra XDA ethos.
This subdivision was done without community consultation.
When announced, there was rapid dissent and the response was to close the thread (for heavens sake).
In fairness, to quote @sveitus
P.S. This is a bit of an experiment. Should it make sense, we'll roll it out to other forums on XDA
Click to expand...
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, although my concern is that there is no criteria laid down for "success"
I believe this is a reaction, maybe considered, to two things:
I believe that proportion of the community would like to see forums divided (from what I can tell, divided into Kernels, ROMs and Modems), a proportion are comfortable (complacenty abiding with?) the current structure and a proportion who want to differentiate `original` with `derived`. As is also common in politics, the silent majority will be ignored in favour of the loud minority. I suspect that the democratic view is unknown in this instance.
I believe that this split is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident where someone released a ROM claiming their own work when (to be confirmed?) all bar part of a theme was taken raw from another source uncredited.
Personally speaking, for a mod to close a thread without explaination isn't easily forgiveable.
What say you?
p.s. (edit) We already have different classes of users based on number of postings, etc.
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
svetius said:
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the quick response. I guess the division of the Samsung S2 forum was an incredibly short lived experiment and I imagine they are being remerged as I type and that themes can live where always should have in their own `themes and apps` sub forum.
I do understand why it is desirable to identify deriviative ROMs (hint: Look at the HD2 Android Dev forum(s) rules to see a great example of useful identification tags in subjects).
Sending you a pm regarding the closure of the thread (for the purpose of me opening this thread was to offer awareness and give our community a voice.
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from and just want a category which just contains ROMS, no sitckies, no dev no "coming" soons, just fully flashable ROMS. Now if you could so this it would make this area much easier to use.
I have to say I just don't get this ROM theft rubbish, Android is supposed to be open source, if you don't want to share your ROM don't post it full stop. If donations are'nt good enough for you then don't post it. If someone uses your work then see it as a compliment and live with it. Adding rules and further layers of complexity to the ROM cooking process is just causing arguments that need not be there. Cooks have to accept that their work is going to used, DEVs also as long as it isn't actually an app.
Now if this attitude puts some people off then the ROMS posted will be fewer in number but populated with those lovingly crafted for the sake of it and not by those who simply want ego boosts to or to generate a profit, this isnt what open source or XDA is supposed to be about...!
discuss..
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
stoolzo said:
...Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
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Click to collapse
In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Relying on people to do the right thing would unfortunately lead to chaos. Why? Should we get rid of police officers and courts and just rely on people to "do the right thing"? Nice idea, however the world you mention is fantasy.
stoolzo said:
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from
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Click to collapse
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
stoolzo said:
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
khein said:
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
egzthunder1 said:
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
DaveShaw said:
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
egzthunder1 said:
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
stoolzo said:
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Users did not self moderate 4+ years ago.... there was less need for moderation. You didn't see constant intervention by mods, not because the rules were not in place or because the mods were not around, but rather because there was no drama in the titanic proportions that we see it daily. It is very easy to speak from the regular member's stand point, but the amount of stuff that we (mods and admins) see going through this site day in and day out since the smartphone market exploded would make you want to jump out of a window!
You are suggesting, in essence, that we do away with our rules and let people "do the right thing." Why? Our rules have been in place since early 2003 when the site was founded. For over 5 years, these rules have made xda-developers the site that many regard today as the largest developer community on the web.
You speak of the objective of XDA, what do you think this is? Do you know what the true mission of this site is? XDA is a development and hacking community. It isn't end users that make this community, it is developers, hackers, and enthusiast that are the back-bone of this site. Do you want to know what XDA truly is about?
Read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the true ethos of XDA. This is what our community and founding members believed and still do regarding how our site should work and what our members should do to "fit" here.
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
khein said:
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tbh I think you miss the point. We aren't saying derivative roms aren't important. Of course they are. I even use them occasionally myself. If I'm having an issue with a rom I'm using, of course I will try and help fix the bug. What we are trying to do is aid developers by splitting the forums up into two clear sections
stoolzo said:
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wasn't the only reason you know. Just one of the consequences of the new idea that seems to have been overlooked thus far.
stoolzo said:
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
Tier 1 does sorta exist It's the recognized developer program, which has an area for this.
If I'm honest, what you describe sounds very much like the new system, with a "big stuff" section (the rec dev area), then a tier 2 area, where the "original" stuff goes, and a tier 3 area for the remainder?
well, not really, my way does not seeks to discourage people by singling out their work, however apparently trivial it may appear to be inferior to others - openly...
My idea was really about giving the more technical / coding minded people more of a say in how they work, somewhere more quiet to share and discuss stuff. If you say this already exists then why don't you extend it to encompass the more favoured cooks?, the more stuff worked on and completed at this level will leave less to fight over at my level.
I still think you should put all the ROMS back together in one category and kick out all the other dev stuff into to its own, if only to help us lowly users find out next ROM more easily, don't forget about us
Lmao I'm loving and had to contribute to what I can only describe as "better than jeremy kyle" show that's going on over in the dev section.
My views are like many and as for being all for new development on wildfire I just can't comprehend why this mockery has been allowed to go on for so long? I'm urging moderators to act on this matter of continuous so called "new fast and stable roms" that havnt even been tested!! That suddenly are discontinued and replaced by yet another.
It really does take alot to rile me up the wrong way but this has got to be sorted PLEASE.
this is my opinion which I have the right to air and really don't wish to offend any individuals, I respect my own and everyone's rights but surely this point must be addressed.
Kindest regards,slymobi.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
LOL....... Not many people will know what you mean by the jezza comment but i certainly do!!
The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that all these roms are popping up and where is the credit for the real developer, you know the guy who has actually sat in front of a computer for hours on end staring at code over and over and over again to actually bring them a base to dissect and add a few apps (incorrectly too if i might add as most of the time they fc constantly) and finally slap there name on it to hopefully make them famous xda developers!!
Well no-one can pull the wool over my eyes that easily and i'll be sticking with the true dev's, the ones who can actually read a logcat and make sense of it all and also fix problems instead of just deleting the problem and starting again!!
:End Rant:
True developers !?
I agree with both of you as there have been so many "stable" ROMS that never got tested... And they pop up every 5 seconds lately.
Can it be due to the fact that most of the "true developers" (your definition) moved to other/new phones ? Hence we have new developers (or wannabe's) at the early stages of their careers So they will learn and eventually earn the title "true developer". Maybe we should not act so harsh and scare them off !!! We do need some developers to breath in some new life into these old phones of ours.
I am not a developer myself... But I have couple of things to say about you guys' definition of "true developers".... My question is where do you really draw the line? So a true developer should be able to built from source according to your definition. Well they need the source for that... And its coded by someone else... So all they are doing in effect is compiling someone elses code. Maybe they are not the "true developers" either???
All I am trying to say is, cool off a bit, let the new developers/wannabe's mature. As I am sure they are quite young.
And a note to the new developers: Be patient and work first and then gloat. Do not call every release "stable". You know we have words like "alpha", "beta" etc...
p.s. And what happened to the term ROM Cook? We do have the kitchen.. If that makes people happy, maybe we should call them COOKS. After all, not everybody is a good cook ...
You have some good valid points but I think your not totally understanding our concerns.
Nobody is against new developers or up and coming ones either. Its the manner in which they conduct themselves and there project. A simple example is...... lets say I take your post and edit it and change what you've said a little bit then stop half way thro
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
Ugh then change the name etc etc cos I got bored or encountered some errors!! Would this mean that the original post does not deserve any credit. Now if you read your quoted post in my post youll see ive edited a few things just for an example my friend ( now removed after point being made and recognized) and is in no way intended to offend you. I have personally had pm conversation with one of the newbies and respect that he is new and learning and offered him some simple advice which he was thankful for I think. I'm no dev either and have no ambition to become one lol I'm to lazy but I would go about things differently to most of the so called new devs. Regards slymobi.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
"thesherrif " now that I like... Some changes are good I guess.
I understand your concerns very well... But it is what it is when it comes to young people. Especially this generation They get bored quiet fast and move onto a new ROM/new thread. Eventually, they will mature up. Winzipping won't be enough for them, and they start to dig deep into their ROMs and start doing some "true developing" with patience to stick with what they've started.
Unfortunately for us, they will live through their early stages of developing with us, and when they become competent developers they will move to other phones That is the price of owning an old (and cheap enough for kids to buy) phone like wildfire.
Arrggghhh I should get a new phone. I really need to...
Lol nice end. I agree. I used to love testing out new roms but slowly found that the next was too similar to the previous,I just think maybe there should be some kind of testing review period by experienced members before new roms are openly posted. Or like another very respected member has stated, split the dev section into new and original!! I have not named said member due to my respect for him. Regards slymobi.
P.s I'm gonna have to go some work my boss is getting pissed at me lol. Bye bye.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
Hehe
I find it incredibly funny to download one of those roms and see my name & build box in the compile strings
One of them even changed the developer ID (as used by Rom Manager)... f'k knows why, you need more that just a line in a file to get it on there
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
And the one that's apparently "final"... I wonder if there will be a "final v2" if I ever get this bloody camcorder fixed
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Another pissed of dev is clearly seems . Love using the surgeon.. was a lil tricky at first but worked a treat. And also people are using there work without no credit being given. Piss take as hyperdroid base is mega stable and has good features ...heres hoping he comes back... soon. He did kind of hint it at the end lol . What do yooooooou make of it.
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!
Hopefully the "team" (there's more than one man) are working on something good to come back with. I can completely understand why they closed it because the amount of lazy ass people that post in there looking for general support was a joke. They're nice people but there's a limit which has obviously been reached. We have a general section for general chit chat but people again are too lazy to use multiple fora to get what they require. Unfortunately the "user" will eventually ruin the "dev" focus of these forums.
In my opinion there should be a 100 post rule before you can even post in the developer forums. This would force the noobs top read the forums.
Sent from inside a black hole.
shr33kant said:
In my opinion there should be a 100 post rule before you can even post in the developer forums. This would force the noobs top read the forums.
Sent from inside a black hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% agreed. I'm sure it's been suggested before but always worth posting it in the support and feedback forum, go on you know you want to
Only backlash this would have is 100 posts elsewhere to get sufficient posts for them to plague the dev forums as they do now with the 10. It would possibly deter them though, anything's worth a try.
shr33kant said:
In my opinion there should be a 100 post rule before you can even post in the developer forums. This would force the noobs top read the forums.
Sent from inside a black hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
you should not lump together all newbies.
There are also the other one's, which read a lot and learn by doing.
Although I'm new to Android at all, I try to help where I can (it's not much..) and you won't find nooby questions. Because all one want to know is somewhere anwered here.
Maybe Dev's should set up 2 threads, one for Q&A with a faq at beginning, supported mostly by the "key users", and one only for dev-related matters (no answers to silly questions...)
Only my opinion of course...
Regards
Norbert
100 post rule is bull, ya no why because they will just make new threads and ask the dumb ass questions.
I'm not a noob either i been here abour 5 years and watch this place go down hill so fast over the past year. I used to spend hours in the Leo section answering posts as demon man and got fed up of it. It isnt just the new people pissing devs off its the mods also there part to blame with there lame ideas, most of them just jump on there high horse. yes I can totally understand why devs just give up but then you have the likes of codeworkx who will tell you you will get abuse if you ask stupid dumb ass questions and abuse he will give, yet the stupid questions are still asked.
It doesnt take 10 mins to find 90% of your answers on here although the search button is a load of gash imo stickies are the best answer of read a few pages back but nobody seems to wanna do that anymore, hell the day i got my leo and touch diamond i nearly fudged them for not reading but after half hour of reading and looking you can find your answer the best bet would be that new topics have to be moderated first instead of the same question all the time go through and see how many posts there have been in the past 2 weeks about people screwing there efs folder that should be a stickie imo in bold.
I've been using xda for several years. I never post anything as the answer always seem to be available already posted my someone else.
Recently XDA has been an increasingly unpleasant place to visit. People seem to be unable to read more than the last 2 threads, have any sense of how to be even slightly polite and have no concept of the hard work an generosity of those developing and sharing. If i was a dev i'd have taken my bat and ball home ages ago.
I'll go back to reading, and tinkering with my phone.
1 post nearer 100
Many thanks to all those who give so much. Especially Pongster and his team.
Xda was awesome back in the windows mobile days Devs and noobs were very humble,civil helpful. There was no competition among devs and everyone used to work together.
Since android has come in this place has pretty much gone downhill. It is all about fame,donations now.
No offence, just a general observation.
Cheers.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
noke955 said:
Hi,
you should not lump together all newbies.
There are also the other one's, which read a lot and learn by doing.
Although I'm new to Android at all, I try to help where I can (it's not much..) and you won't find nooby questions. Because all one want to know is somewhere anwered here.
Maybe Dev's should set up 2 threads, one for Q&A with a faq at beginning, supported mostly by the "key users", and one only for dev-related matters (no answers to silly questions...)
Only my opinion of course...
Regards
Norbert
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 threads seems good to me. .
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!
Extropy has hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.
Lets hope something changes, It's no fault of Xda, it's just that over the last year Androids popularity has exploded, and thus the number of newcomers and freeloaders.
BUT what angers me is that for every so called "Annoying noob post" in the threads there are 10X responses from established members that are much more aggressive and rude in tone in comparison. I feel its quicker to help someone and guide them In a constructive way. It's annoying sure, but saves comeback questions, heated exchanges and tempers blowing up.
Something needs to change, but its going to be a tough one.
One things for sure, I've seen many Good devs leave, soon there will be threads with a lot more Kangs then there already are.
I hope this gets sorted.
Cheers guys
jaksau said:
Xda was awesome back in the windows mobile days Devs and noobs were very humble,civil helpful. There was no competition among devs and everyone used to work together.
Since android has come in this place has pretty much gone downhill. It is all about fame,donations now.
No offence, just a general observation.
Cheers.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used to be a nice place to come back in the winmo days people answered questions civil and you learnt to read now everybody wants spoon feeding info.
jaksau said:
Xda was awesome back in the windows mobile days Devs and noobs were very humble,civil helpful. There was no competition among devs and everyone used to work together.
Since android has come in this place has pretty much gone downhill. It is all about fame,donations now.
No offence, just a general observation.
Cheers.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. Donations are fine in my opinion. I mean its hours spent trying to create something that everyone and yourself will like and share it for free. So a lil donation never hurts . With rom competition dont really see it tbh... i just think stealing some1 elses work is a piss take.
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!
androidkid311 said:
I disagree. Donations are fine in my opinion. I mean its hours spent trying to create something that everyone and yourself will like and share it for free. So a lil donation never hurts . With rom competition dont really see it tbh... i just think stealing some1 elses work is a piss take.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do agree with what you are saying with the donations.. in an ideal world.
xda can always do this as an experiment.
see who remains when no donations are allowed.
pretty sure the kangs will stop rather quickly
as for the rule of 100 posts, its pretty easy to rack up, especially if they treat xda like twitter.
a combination of both number of years and post rule, with years taking precedence.
for ppl to post in dev threads anyway.
Sorry but I'm starting to get mixed feelings here. I've always been on their side and understand that they can get fed up. But it's as if being a noob is not permitted in their thread. No disrespect but they are coming across as elitist.
As for the devs that use their work without all due credit they are destroying xda spirit.
As far as I remember, from the WinMo days, it was the same old BS, just on a smaller scale, less devices, less forums, less posters, so it was all a more manageable talk for the mods/admind/etc to keep on top of.
I will be really sad if hyperdroid doesnt come back, I only really finished moving there from VR (Base got a bit old) and I dont want to have to find another rom, there all seem to be to themed rather than stable bases with the useful mods built in.
being a newbie is fine. We all start there.
bear in mind, n00b has a different meaning to what you are referring to here.
What differentiates newbies that are humble and n00bs are as below:
being a trolling n00b calling devs idiots, or demanding devs to give them exactly what they want, a n00b that can't read/search, a n00b that somehow thinks he knows best, a n00b that advices others to do weird/ridculous things to their phones, it can be pretty tiring.
veyka said:
As far as I remember, from the WinMo days, it was the same old BS, just on a smaller scale, less devices, less forums, less posters, so it was all a more manageable talk for the mods/admind/etc to keep on top of.
I will be really sad if hyperdroid doesnt come back, I only really finished moving there from VR (Base got a bit old) and I dont want to have to find another rom, there all seem to be to themed rather than stable bases with the useful mods built in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing that happened with designgears what a quality dev. His cognition had it all! Fell in love with that rom lol. He left rom got old and now im on wanam, which is really good. With android exploding as someone said....the posts may only get worse .
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!
mbutandola said:
Sorry but I'm starting to get mixed feelings here. I've always been on their side and understand that they can get fed up. But it's as if being a noob is not permitted in their thread. No disrespect but they are coming across as elitist.
As for the devs that use their work without all due credit they are destroying xda spirit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is also my impression. i liked hyperdroid since HD2. excellent work. top job.
hyperdroid was the main reason to buy an SGS2.
But in a thread beginning with:
"Goals of the ROM: Fast. Functional. Solid.
We want the ROM to be fully customizable by the most important person--- YOU, the user. We believe its your choice how you theme the device and that a ROM shouldn't just be themed creations based off another ROM."
Again: The most important person--- YOU, the user.
I think this should be a thread also for users. not only for devs. Did I get this wrong? ok, there where posts with awful context. but lump all users together?
one example of what i really don't understand: they say, the do their job primary for themselves. ok. but do the dev's need a OTA-Tool for themselves?
Users are the most important persons - and then they kick them out. This is a contradiction in my opinion.
i am very sad about this...
This was pongster's thread, his decision. I wish the guys the best for the future! So bye, bye hyperdroid ...
trahzebuck said:
Users are the most important persons - and then they kick them out. This is a contradiction in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what kind of users are you talking about here?
s2d4 said:
being a newbie is fine. We all start there.
bear in mind, n00b has a different meaning to what you are referring to here.
What differentiates newbies that are humble and n00bs are as below:
being a trolling n00b calling devs idiots, or demanding devs to give them exactly what they want, a n00b that can't read/search, a n00b that somehow thinks he knows best, a n00b that advices others to do weird/ridculous things to their phones, it can be pretty tiring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
s2d4 said:
being a newbie is fine. We all start there.
bear in mind, n00b has a different meaning to what you are referring to here.
What differentiates newbies that are humble and n00bs are as below:
being a trolling n00b calling devs idiots, or demanding devs to give them exactly what they want, a n00b that can't read/search, a n00b that somehow thinks he knows best, a n00b that advices others to do weird/ridculous things to their phones, it can be pretty tiring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. But just read Pongster last post. He's got reasons to be angry but sounds a bit smug to me.
I never demanded anything or complained and moved to hyperdroid because the sounded committed while knowing what they talk about. I mean real development. But reading between the lines if you don't know how to use adb then you don't have the requested level. And you shouldn't report bugs.
So basically because of that + some disrespectful comments + stolen work they might stop sharing all along.
Well, it's their work, they don't owe us anything and it's only fair enough.
Life goes on and I won't beg them. If they come back then fine and I'd be pleased. However, even if I end up using their rom again, I won't post anything or ask help from them at all.
Edit: one more thing. Posting on their thread doesn't necessarily mean that you are requesting help from them. You ask help from those who use the same rom and may have encountered the same issue. Most of the time users help each other and that's the best way of learning.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II using Tapatalk.
Guys,
First of all this is not aimed at anyone in particular... it's for all to read.
It's obvious that something is going on in the Dev section concerning the Sense 6 roms ported from the M8..... I have no idea what it is and I have no wish to know.
However when these things kick off as they do from time to time it is not Developers or Contributors that are affected.... it's us, the users of the roms etc. XDA is supposed to be a community and is supposed to be about sharing so isn't it time that everybody shares their stuff... there are enough users out there for all of your work to be enjoyed and appreciated.
Please guys, let's all behave as a community and give all a chance to enjoy the many varied and good things that you Devs and Contributors give to us.
Thank you.
rider5512 said:
Guys,
First of all this is not aimed at anyone in particular... it's for all to read.
It's obvious that something is going on in the Dev section concerning the Sense 6 roms ported from the M8..... I have no idea what it is and I have no wish to know.
However when these things kick off as they do from time to time it is not Developers or Contributors that are affected.... it's us, the users of the roms etc. XDA is supposed to be a community and is supposed to be about sharing so isn't it time that everybody shares their stuff... there are enough users out there for all of your work to be enjoyed and appreciated.
Please guys, let's all behave as a community and give all a chance to enjoy the many varied and good things that you Devs and Contributors give to us.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what happens when people are more worried about their Ego then anything else. Nothing we can do about it. As developers are allowed to keep their own work to themselves and not share it with others. This is the reason many refuse to use OEM based roms or prefer to take the base rom and make their own for personal use.
Ill be honest. This is the main reason I dropped Sense and am on my last OEM-non-nexus device.
Nothing can really be done about it.
zelendel said:
Nothing can really be done about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fear you are right but I felt something needs to be said as this keeps happening.
rider5512 said:
Guys,
First of all this is not aimed at anyone in particular... it's for all to read.
It's obvious that something is going on in the Dev section concerning the Sense 6 roms ported from the M8..... I have no idea what it is and I have no wish to know.
However when these things kick off as they do from time to time it is not Developers or Contributors that are affected.... it's us, the users of the roms etc. XDA is supposed to be a community and is supposed to be about sharing so isn't it time that everybody shares their stuff... there are enough users out there for all of your work to be enjoyed and appreciated.
Please guys, let's all behave as a community and give all a chance to enjoy the many varied and good things that you Devs and Contributors give to us.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately Sense "Development" has left the "From us to you" level in many areas since quite some time and has reached a stage where all that counts is "I am out earlier with my rom", " I have more users", "My thread has more posts", "My p.... is longer". Ok, not the last, but you get the point.
So, as long as this does not change again, there is no such thing as a "Dev-community" in Sense development.
Sad as it may be, from time to time this kind of development has unavoidable consequences and the users are sometimes suffering from "collateral damage". That's the bitter truth and could only be changed by a change of attitude by some devs.
Just my 2cts.
rider5512 said:
I fear you are right but I felt something needs to be said as this keeps happening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it will as long as people keep needing an ego boost. That is all it is. They want to say they have the best, most mods, fastest, ect rom.
And to be honest. There is nothing done to OEM roms that are really that impressive. If they wanted to HTC could come in and stop all of them in one shot.
jotha said:
........ and could only be changed by a change of attitude by some devs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was the reason for the post in the hope that it may make some think a little more.
rider5512 said:
That was the reason for the post in the hope that it may make some think a little more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
zelendel said:
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmmm indeed !
zelendel said:
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is the root of all evil (in this context) imho. I could not agree more.
Unfortunately this has become the state of affairs. In the end its down to the individual devs if they share their work. I do see some great things happening in the way of development, its just a shame resources cant be pulled together, then something truly fantastic may emerge, But until people stop putting their ego in front of development progress and community spirit, nothing will change.
Its all about, hey look what we did, aint it cool. Rather than, lets work together as a community and make a difference.
original_ganjaman said:
...... its just a shame resources cant be pulled together, then something truly fantastic may emerge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can only hope but who knows... perhaps one day !
zelendel said:
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly wish this would happen... XDA should not be about money, we all agree here that that attitude towards development is pretty much unwanted here.
rider5512 said:
We can only hope but who knows... perhaps one day !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it but those days have come and gone. XDA used to be about sharing information and knowledge. Now it is a ego trip. Sad really.
Bat cave One
zelendel said:
I hate to say it but those days have come and gone. XDA used to be about sharing information and knowledge. Now it is a ego trip. Sad really.
Bat cave One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ow well, i hope you realize there ARE still devs out there that share the love buddy.
Its just few bad apples, (whats in the name huh) that spoils the whole barrel.....
I gotta chime in here with my .98 cents worth.
It's not just some stuff at xda. We're talking about innovation in all of tech being affected by a particular spirit.
Think about it. Apple has 147 billion dollars in unused capital but they won't make it happen as far as getting swipe gestures on their ios keyboard.
Android has so many attitude problems as well. You can get one device and it has certain strengths and certain flaws. Then a different device will have the things that are currently missing in your device, but it will be lacking the good things your current device already has.
Things like planned obsolescence, data caps, expensive smartphones with faulty displays, over heated batteries, on and on and on.
Whether it be Apple, msoft, or Google...none realize that they're about to kill the golden goose.
Some of us will just throw up our hands and say " to hell with you all" , and just hang on to whatever device we currently have for much longer than we'd like to. Because, just as soon as you upgrade, there's a slightly newer and better spec-bump version.
Unfortunately, Camera has stopped.
Whiskey103 said:
Ow well, i hope you realize there ARE still devs out there that share the love buddy.
Its just few bad apples, (whats in the name huh) that spoils the whole barrel.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do whiskey. I do. That's why I still only use aosp based stuff but even some there like to keep knowledge in house.
Bat cave
I love that you started this thread OP Maybe some folks will realize their ways and change.
Sent from my HTC One M8 using xda app-developers app
Whiskey103 said:
Ow well, i hope you realize there ARE still devs out there that share the love buddy.
Its just few bad apples, (whats in the name huh) that spoils the whole barrel.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
zelendel said:
I do whiskey. I do. That's why I still only use aosp based stuff but even some there like to keep knowledge in house.
Bat cave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it's not new, nor confined to Sense. I remember when I made skins for MobileShell on Windows Mobile there were guys who refused to share basic knowledge just to have a headstart. It was simple xml, no high-end coding, so nothing that would earn you fame and fortune. And that was in 2008 or so...
It's just an ego thing and it will always be here. So the limits have to be set from time to time obviously to keep things stright and under control.
In my opinion there is an issue with "credit" and "permission"...example, if a developer ports a ROM over from another device, well done. But does that mean the developer owns that port, to me, no, because it's still HTC files used to get that port working. Should it be required to ask for permission to use that port? NO. However, it should be required to CREDIT the person who got the port working. But asking permission makes it seem as if you own something, which you don't. This is the problem I see. Permission should not be required on XDA at all, only a requirement to credit someone. If they are expecting permission, they should take their stuff off XDA, and go elsewhere, because I know for a fact that none of the developers asked HTC if they could use M8 files to create an M7 port, and I'm sure HTC doesn't care, but for some reason these developers care way too much.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app
troby86 said:
In my opinion there is an issue with "credit" and "permission"...example, if a developer ports a ROM over from another device, well done. But does that mean the developer owns that port, to me, no, because it's still HTC files used to get that port working. Should it be required to ask for permission to use that port? NO. However, it should be required to CREDIT the person who got the port working. But asking permission makes it seem as if you own something, which you don't. This is the problem I see. Permission should not be required on XDA at all, only a requirement to credit someone. If they are expecting permission, they should take their stuff off XDA, and go elsewhere, because I know for a fact that none of the developers asked HTC if they could use M8 files to create an M7 port, and I'm sure HTC doesn't care, but for some reason these developers care way too much.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant really agree with this. First off, asking permission is polite, its the reaction to that request that is the issue. If the request is reasonable and for the benefit of the community, i would like to think any devoted member/dev would be willing to share the knowledge. Chances are, that dev picked up a lot of knowledge from this very forum beforehand, so not to share prevents this circle of knowledge. Credit, is just a given.
I also have to say your simplified way of "porting" is a bit disagreeable. Some of these guys put many hours of work into their ROMs, so to say all that should be dismissed due to the original code being that of HTC, is a little unfair. It sounds contradictory, so...
We have 2 issues:
1 - Free sharing of work
2 - The protection of devs who have put hours of work into a project and wish to keep it "exclusive"
Both have to be considered, imho
Its a matter of balance, one with the rules (that i think we have) and the other with attitude.
As Zel said, HTC could pull the plug at any time. Making this a non issue.