Database Users

Why does desire builds take so much space

http://www.htc.com/www/product/desire/specification.html
ROM: 512 MB
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http://www.htc.com/www/product/hd2/specification.html
ROM: 512 MB
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Euro HD2 have same size of storage than Desire. Then how can we have such small amount of free storage after installing? Or desire also have only 180MB free after install? That sounds a bit too small for real android device.
What am i missing here?

Part of the problem is that "devs" are de-odexing apks and jars. While it's true that the system image is larger with the odexes (roughly about 20 MB), that space is soon used up, but on /data when the build first-boots and creates the dalvik-caches for system files (which don't need to be created in builds that are pre-odexed).
I'll give you an example. framework.jar (in /system/framework) is around 2.5-3 MB on a de-odexed system. The classes.dex inside it gets uncompressed to dalvik-cache, and uses an addiional 6 MB, for a total file of 8.5-9 MB.
On a regular, odexed system, framework.jar is around 30kb (since it doesn't contain a classes.dex inside) and the respective odex uses up 6 MB (and since it's already an odex, it doesn't have to be uncompressed to dalvik-cache). Total size for framework: 6.03 MB.
Now, for your question. Original desire builds are odexed, so they're about 20-40 MB smaller on a shipped device. You get about 220 MB free on a stock Desire.
On top of the de-odexing, something that costs space is that the devs write larger partition than necessary, but you can fix this when you flash your build by editing the flash.cfg and writing smaller partitions for all but userdata (that way you have more space available for apps), here's what I use:
Code:
boot ya|boot|ro filesize boot.img
system ya filesize system.img
cache ya 3M
userdata ya|asize|hr allsize
cache might be unnecessary now since 2.2. It's used for OTA updates (we don't care about those) and market cache, but since 2.2 market downloads are cached on SD if there's no space on cache, so that might be another 3 MB you can get back.
Plus my personal build is odexed, so I have (on TMOUS HD2) ~800 MB free on first boot.

jubeh said:
Part of the problem is that "devs" are de-odexing apks and jars. While it's true that the system image is larger with the odexes (roughly about 20 MB), that space is soon used up, but on /data when the build first-boots and creates the dalvik-caches for system files (which don't need to be created in builds that are pre-odexed).
I'll give you an example. framework.jar (in /system/framework) is around 2.5-3 MB on a de-odexed system. The classes.dex inside it gets uncompressed to dalvik-cache, and uses an addiional 6 MB, for a total file of 8.5-9 MB.
On a regular, odexed system, framework.jar is around 30kb (since it doesn't contain a classes.dex inside) and the respective odex uses up 6 MB (and since it's already an odex, it doesn't have to be uncompressed to dalvik-cache). Total size for framework: 6.03 MB.
Now, for your question. Original desire builds are odexed, so they're about 20-40 MB smaller on a shipped device. You get about 220 MB free on a stock Desire.
On top of the de-odexing, something that costs space is that the devs write larger partition than necessary, but you can fix this when you flash your build by editing the flash.cfg and writing smaller partitions for all but userdata (that way you have more space available for apps), here's what I use:
Code:
boot ya|boot|ro filesize boot.img
system ya filesize system.img
cache ya 3M
userdata ya|asize|hr allsize
cache might be unnecessary now since 2.2. It's used for OTA updates (we don't care about those) and market cache, but since 2.2 market downloads are cached on SD if there's no space on cache, so that might be another 3 MB you can get back.
Plus my personal build is odexed, so I have (on TMOUS HD2) ~800 MB free on first boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might I ask what build you're using with 800Mb free?

Wow, thanks for the explanation. So what are the pros of de-odexed builds?

I will ask that here instead of starting new thread:
Is there a way to change treshold for "Low Disk Space" error message? According to the DiskSpace application, i have around 50MB of the free space, which is quite a lot when max is 180. But still i got Low Disk Space and i can't install any applications.
Friend have real Desire with 20MB of free space and he don't have that message.

Issues with Task Manager!!

I recently updated my Galaxy 3 to android 2.2 via kies (official update). Now, there is a icon for Task Manager showing which is inbuilt in 2.2
Galaxy 3 has 256 MB RAM. On the RAM Manager tab of Task Manager, it is written that 150 MB/246 MB. As far as I understand this, it means that 150 MB RAM is currently used out of total 246 MB.
My queries:
1) As per specs, it must be 256 MB but 246 MB is written in RAM Manager tab
2) On Active Apps tab of Task Manager tab, there are two apps listed with 12.23 MB and 6.53 MB RAM usage respectively, that means a total of 18.76 MB but at the same time, RAM Manager tab shows 150 MB usage. How is this possible...a bug or am i construing something wrong?
3) On RAM Manager tab, there are 2 buttons for Level 1 and Level 2 and a bar of Level 1 and Level 2. why there are 2 buttons for Level 1 and Level 2?
4) On Package tab, there is a line that says: Package Size: code + data. Program: 161 MB/194 MB. What is the meaning of this?
Note: I have not installed any app in SD card so all the memory here is phone memory

Well, level 1 is for closing inactive apps and level 2 is for closing inactive and background apps to free space
Sent from Lestatious 1.8 Alpha 10 1.3GHz

thanks for the reply. What are background apps? Can they be active apps?

Can anyone please answer this?

vijay.gupta said:
2) On Active Apps tab of Task Manager tab, there are two apps listed with 12.23 MB and 6.53 MB RAM usage respectively, that means a total of 18.76 MB but at the same time, RAM Manager tab shows 150 MB usage. How is this possible...a bug or am i construing something wrong?
4) On Package tab, there is a line that says: Package Size: code + data. Program: 161 MB/194 MB. What is the meaning of this?
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I can answer 2
2) The apps displayed are the running apps. There are many apps and services that run in the background and eventually consume memory. You can check that by going to setting > services and setting > manage applications> running apps. All these are running in background and will always use RAM.
4) This means that you have used 161 MB of your internal memory. It displays the total apps size

Also before you say somenthing about the low free ram space, in android phones it doesnt matter as hard as windows, here the common trend is "free ram memory is wasted memory" this because the andrioid system manage correctly the apps loaded to ram and terminates them when its needed (almost all the time), and loads.all the services you need to run, just when you feel that an app is consuming too.much or the phone.gets slow you can. Use the.inbuilt.ram.sweep, level 1 is soft sweep, it just close the active applications, for example music player if you are running music. Level 2 its a deep sweep, closing all.backgroud apps like sync, launcher etc
Sent from my GT-I5800 using XDA App

Answer to the 1st question:
The task manager shows "incorrect" amount of RAM because of the different calculation method. Manufacturers use an approximate value of 1000kb for 1mb, but software counts 1048kb=1mb (1024*1024 bytes). Thus 246mb*1,048=~257mb. Check wikipedia for more reference.
Sent from my LESTATIOUS GT-I5800 using XDA App

Thanks all for the valuable information and clearing up the air

I was checking my phone specs on
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2392&c=samsung_gt-i5801_galaxy_3__gt-i5800_galaxy_spica_2
There is a line there:
ROM_capacity: 512 MiB (accessible: 170 MiB)
I know that it has 512 MiB ROM but what is the meaning of 170 MiB accessible here?
I assume that 512 MiB is only for Android OS?

vijay.gupta said:
ROM_capacity: 512 MiB (accessible: 170 MiB)
I know that it has 512 MiB ROM but what is the meaning of 170 MiB accessible here?
I assume that 512 MiB is only for Android OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM is different from RAM
I assume these 170 MiB are the free space dedicated to install apps. Am I wrong ?

Yes, thats right, if im not wrong, the 512mib ROM space is used to install All the android system, leaving only 172 mb to install apps

Thanks. That means:
Total Internal Storage (ROM) = 512 MiB out of which
Storage available for android OS = 342 MiB
Storage available to install apps = 170 MiB

Total Internal Storage (ROM) = 512 MiB
It's kinda dumb to call it ROM, as it stands for Read Only Memmory. U can write/delete your ROM, including those 170MB for apps and those 342MB of OS memory with root access. Even Samsung calls it ROM...

That's what I was confused about when I first visited this forum...basically here the terminology is wrong....nothing is ROM here...and they are calling phone internal memory as ROM...

few memory

why i have after installing a rom only free 120 mb free memory on phone i made partition 250 mb

The rom you installed probably has /system/app and /system/framework moved to /data, hence the small data size.

[Q] swap?

can someone tell me what is the swap, swap partition? please help!

SeeZaar said:
can someone tell me what is the swap, swap partition? please help!
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Android is using SWAP-Partitions like "internal RAM". It is not exactly the same as internal RAM, but very close to it.
So you can increase your internal ram by using a swap-Partition.
Swap-Partition is a separate Partition on SD-Card. Mostly the last partition on sd-card.
For example:
16gb - SDCard---> 1. Partition FAT32: 14 GB, 2. Partition: SD-EXT: 1,5 GB, 3. Partition: SWAP: 500 MB
If you have a swap-Partition on your sd-card AND Android is told that it should use SWAP (e.g. by using an init-d-script or playstore-app "SWAPPER") - Android will use the amount of memory on SWAP-Partition as internal RAM.
But it is not exactly like: 1GB Internal RAM + 500 MB SWAP = 1,5 GB Internal RAM - > that's not true.
If you activate SWAPPING you have to decide which value of "SWAPPINESS" you want to use.
Example:
Swappiness 30 means:
70 percent of all write-actions will be on internal ram and 30 percent of all write-actions will be on SWAP-Partition.
If you set Swappiness 100 means:
ALL write-Actions will be on SWAP-Partition --> Internal ram is nearly not used any more ("nearly" becaus some things in android are using internal ram further on).
But you have to be careful: You need a very fast Sd-Card.

twoxx said:
Android is using SWAP-Partitions like "internal RAM". It is not exactly the same as internal RAM, but very close to it.
So you can increase your internal ram by using a swap-Partition.
Swap-Partition is a separate Partition on SD-Card. Mostly the last partition on sd-card.
For example:
16gb - SDCard---> 1. Partition FAT32: 14 GB, 2. Partition: SD-EXT: 1,5 GB, 3. Partition: SWAP: 500 MB
If you have a swap-Partition on your sd-card AND Android is told that it should use SWAP (e.g. by using an init-d-script or playstore-app "SWAPPER") - Android will use the amount of memory on SWAP-Partition as internal RAM.
But it is not exactly like: 1GB Internal RAM + 500 MB SWAP = 1,5 GB Internal RAM - > that's not true.
If you activate SWAPPING you have to decide which value of "SWAPPINESS" you want to use.
Example:
Swappiness 30 means:
70 percent of all write-actions will be on internal ram and 30 percent of all write-actions will be on SWAP-Partition.
If you set Swappiness 100 means:
ALL write-Actions will be on SWAP-Partition --> Internal ram is nearly not used any more ("nearly" becaus some things in android are using internal ram further on).
But you have to be careful: You need a very fast Sd-Card.
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thanks very, very much!! Just one more question.... What is the chache and dalvik cache??

SeeZaar said:
thanks very, very much!! Just one more question.... What is the chache and dalvik cache??
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Click to collapse
Dalvik Cache is a List in which all apps and the path to find those apps on your phone are listed. With this list in Dalvik Cache, Android
is able to find and start Apps and other files faster than other Operating Systems would do.
You can erase Dalvik Cache, but on the next Restart of your phone - dalvik cache will be rebuilt automatically.
Cache is a partition into which all apps are writing different things when they are started and when they are running.
This data is only temporarily needed. There are some apps in playstore that are able to erase cache in order to speed up system a little bit.

twoxx said:
Dalvik Cache is a List in which all apps and the path to find those apps on your phone are listed. With this list in Dalvik Cache, Android
is able to find and start Apps and other files faster than other Operating Systems would do.
You can erase Dalvik Cache, but on the next Restart of your phone - dalvik cache will be rebuilt automatically.
Cache is a partition into which all apps are writing different things when they are started and when they are running.
This data is only temporarily needed. There are some apps in playstore that are able to erase cache in order to speed up system a little bit.
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Click to collapse
Thanks, you are good!

so does the SWAP make your phone little bit faster?

dohcvtec said:
so does the SWAP make your phone little bit faster?
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Click to collapse
It depends on how you are using your phone.
If there are many apps running in background that must run in background and stay there all the time (e.g. taskkillers, battery-monitoring, antivirus-software, whatsapp and so on) - very much of internal ram will be reserved for those apps.
As a result : For all other apps that are not staying in internal ram all the time (e.g. games, office-apps, and all the other stuff that can be downloaded from playstore) - there is much less internal ram available for.
This may end in lower performance of your phone generally.
In my case - i use a 300 mb swap-Partition and my phone is faster than without it.
But it depends on the speed of your SD-Card and the kind of swap-activation, Swappiness , readahead-value and so on if you want to make your phone faster by using swap.
Some people say, that zram-swapping is better than swapping with a swap-partition.
I can not say that too, my phone is slower with activated zram instead of activated swap-partition.
zram means, that a part of internal ram is reserved for a swap-partition instead of a swap-partition on sd-card.
So during the usage of zram you have less internal memory free for your apps again, BUT android will swap some system- apps to zram.
Sometimes this makes your phone a little bit snappier, but in my case ist slows down everything.
But SWAPPING BY swap-partion is worth a try.

How does moving apps between "internal app storage" and "sd card" work o 4.4.2?

How does moving apps between "internal app storage" and "sd card" work o 4.4.2?
Hi!
I have a rooted A3500F and cannot figure out which partitions and directories are involved in the aforementioned operation. What the system is showing is very confusing, e.g. with Google Earth:
1) installed in "internal app":
settings: storage available = 2.55 GB, apps (data & media )= 8.31 GB, system = 2.92 GB
app info: total = 206 MB, app =~ 26 MB, data = 180 MB
2) installed in "sd card":
settings: storage available = 2.59 GB, apps (data & media )= 8.32 GB, system = 2.92 GB
app info: total = 223 MB, app =~ 43 MB, data = 180 MB
So system and "app data " do not change. But the rest in the "app info" does not add up!
First it total + app = 232 MB whereas on sd it amounts to 266. Where the extra 34 MB comes from? Thin air?
This is very confusing and the system developers did really poor job in breaking down these amounts for users...
I was able to figure out that sdcard = /data/media/0 = /storage/emulated/0 = /mnt/sdcard and possibly "internal app" is somewhere on /data/media/? /data/app? /data/cache? /data/system?
I wonder what kind of hard limit this "moving" operation is overcoming if everything seems to occur on the "/data" partition and the "/system" does not change? Why is it available in the "app" setting? I use AIO tool to make such move in batch but I'm not sure of the benefits?
Also the "Apps" setting shows 2.9 GB free for the "Downloaded" section and 2.6 GB free for the "SD card" - where do these numbers come from? (it shows in both cases 10GB used and I know that /system takes up 3GB)
It's also weird on my Xperia C1505, e.g. app info storage about AOI Toolbox shows: total 4.4 MB, app on phone 6.17 MB and data on phone 4.4 MB. How could it be that "total" <> "app + data" ?! What then the "total" means?
Apps:
Downloaded / "Phone memory": 643 MB used 96 MB free (total of 740 results from what?)
Internal storage: 592 MB used 1.4 GB free
Running / RAM: 363 MB used 46 MB free (where did 100 MB of RAM go?)
All / "Phone memory": 643 MB used 96 MB free
How are these numbers related to the specs: 0.5 GB RAM, 4 GB internal ?
This is very confusing!
Is this all somehow related to the cache for running apps?
I tried searching for answers on various forums but did not find a good explanation, where it would be simply, unquestionably stated between exactly which directories or partitions this "move" is done.
I would greatly appreciate your help with this problem.
Cheers!