Related
Ipad 2:
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
XOOM:
If you stick with H.264 Baseline Profile, you can achieve up to 1920x1080p at 30 fps at 20Mbps.
Baseline Profile means:
- No CABAC entropy coding.
- No B frames
- No 8x8 transforms (DCT)
- No Weighted Prediction
For 1280x720p at 30 fps, you can go up to 20Mbps and Motorola XOOM should still be able to handle it. More Realistically, depending on the content, you can get away with 4Mbps and up with varying degrees of quality. If you are tight on space, use 4Mbps. If you want something to look good you can use 10/12 Mbps. At some point though the higher the bitrate will only translate to decreasing amounts of quality improvement. In other words, 20Mbps will probably look as good as 15Mbps, but will just use up more space. Ultimately, there is really no one size fits all solution and it may take a little experimentation to find the settings that work best for the content you wish to view.
Additionally your device does not have a limitation on certain types of B frames (Main profile tool). So you can add in B frames and not affect performance that much. If you are using a encoding tool that uses B frames, such as QuickTime Pro, you should be able to achieve main profile encoding.
If you are using a lower resolution that 720p (such as 720x480 resolution size) in order to encode longer length video , you can get away with using more tools (High and Main profile tools). However, encoding become more complex and may require more experimentation to achieve acceptable results.
In general, if you are concern about performance, use baseline tools and possibly b-frames (with no weighted prediction). This will give you the best performance.
Also as side note, if you are upscaling from a DVD to 720p try to use the best upscaling algorithm provided and don't expect to get true 720p quality from upscaled DVD.
Looks like Xoom is a tad bit better in terms of supported Hardware video decode capabilities.
In terms of GPU - it seems that the Ipad 2 may have a bit of an edge with the new power VR 543 - though this is not official as there are no direct comparisons yet.
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
muyoso said:
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
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What's that you say, the iPad can output 1080p? Well sort of. The iPad can mirror its 1024x768 display in 1080p but it still won't decode 1080p H.264 videos, and we don't know what type of TV you have, but we'd bet ours does a little bit better job of scaling than the magical iPad. All that being said, the iPad 2's new form factor will increase its desirability as a couch companion --not to mention we'll buy anything with magnets -- but an HD source device, not so much.
That's from engadget
http://hd.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-ipad-2-and-1080p-theres-nothing-to-see-here/
There are a lot of threads about xoom video limitations.
Am I the only person who just copied dvd rips from my iTunes folder straight to the xoom, and watch them with zero issues?
Maybe my handbrake settings arent top-notch, but the quality/size trade off worked fine on my old I pad, and work fine for the xoom. If I wanted full crazy HD, i'd watch from the blu-ray disk directly, on a TV that does it justice.
Am I crazy?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
It won't do it officially. Once it its jailbroken though it will have xbmc and will have ridiculous capabilities. For example the current ipad can play 720p high profile with xbmc now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Bauxite said:
Because the specs page for the iPad 2 lists SO many more formats.... stop trolling.
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What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page. For a comparison, here is the Notion Ink and the Xoom playing back that exact same clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWu6m33EP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s
muyoso said:
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page.
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How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Bauxite said:
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
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It took a while for XBMC to be ported, 9 months or so. Dont know if they were working on it that entire time. The reason people act like that BTW is because the Tegra 2 is incapable of hardware decoding [email protected] or higher. Here is the guy who ported XBMC to the iPad and AppleTV and who was tasked with porting to Tegra 2 devices talking about it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=735285&postcount=41
Believe me, I wish that were not the case. Wants me some Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.1 action.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
iceytea said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
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Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Thanks for the read, I skimmed it and it pretty much sums up as higher compression without visual quality loss. I never put it together that the development of high profile was used for bandwidth savings though, interesting.
muyoso said:
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
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Click to collapse
Thank you for your posts, and yes, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! Once I began my due diligence today comparing the iPad 1, iPad 2, and the Xoom I thought to see if high profile h.264 was supported.
I was shocked to find out that the Tegra 2's hw (and Nvidia has confirmed this) does not support high profile h.264. BUT.... the iPad 1 does?! It's ridiculous quite frankly, and in my eyes, Tegra 2 is partial failure because of it.
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
In any event, I won't be buying a zoom. For the steeper price point, that is just insulting. I'm gonna try to find one of the remnant ipad 1s from Verizon that have been creeping around for ~$300, however unlikely at that price point it may be to find!
Kudos to your efforts and exposing this massive fault in the Xoom. I have NEVER been a fan of reconversion of the years, from divx in its earliest days through xvid (when apple ironically pushed 'reconversion' into mainstream)... glad that w/ this bad boy that won't be necessary as I'd never do it, too much hassle and insulting, imho.
Not being able to play 720p videos is the main reason I returned the xoom. If I am forced to convert videos I might as well do it for the ipad.
I am so tempted to sell my xoom because of this video playback issue...
I have a lot of bluray rips and I cant watch them on the xoom.
They were encoded using the Apple TV2 preset in handbrake, which I'm guessing is high profile
Oh wow, if this is that serious most of the Honeycomb tablets will be losing quite a lot of sells. I hope Samsung doesn't use the Tegra in their tabs. I'm fine with their Exynos, assuming it has the amazing codec support their Hummingbird does.
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
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That would seem to make since, but I believe in Google...A phrase I never thought I would be saying ever lol.
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Digital Man said:
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
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Click to collapse
No, no, I'll take your word for it. I guess some of us were hoping that it was just a honeycomb issue that would be fixed with an update.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Xoom can play baseline 1080p h.264. The Xoom cannot play 720p high profile h.264. I would venture to guess that 90% of all video that people have that they didn't videotape themselves is high profile h.264 with 9.99% of the remainder being main profile h.264.
hakujin said:
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
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Click to collapse
The iPad 1 handles the Planet Earth clip perfectly, but do realize that it is a jailbroken iPad with XBMC installed. The iPad does not natively support high profile h.264 even though the hardware is capable, because Apple wants you to buy media through iTunes.
The iPad 2 SHOULD be capable of 1080p high profile, but we won't know for sure until it too is jailbroken and XBMC is installed/optimized.
Like the thread title says ive seen way too many posts bashing the playback quality so to those people watch this video on your xooms browser and you will be impressed and appreciate it more
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?deskto...e.com/watch?v=iFohN2-Hqhg&v=iFohN2-Hqhg&gl=US
I think most people are talking about videos that they load onto the device sometimes has choppy playback. We know YouTube plays great. I haven't loaded much onto my device yet but you do experience some slowdown or choppyness I some videos. Most play without a hitch for me though
Sent from my Xoom
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
I think the issue is the software people use to rip.
Granted I don't have my Xoom yet but I've read a lot of threads in preparation and I think the problem is the profile used to rip rather than the software. Apparently high profile 720p isn't working on the Xoom.
Hopefully it's a codec thing and fixable by either Moto adding the codecs or some third party app like CorePlayer.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
PaulG1488 said:
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
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I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
kcm117 said:
I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
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There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
1080p is a size not a measure of quality. I had a standard def camera that will shoot a better picture than my handheld HD cam and will shoot better than any phone or tablet camera. I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080. Probably the same folks that can tell the difference between a 160kbps MP3 file vs a 300kbps one
Real HD, that plays off your BluRay player, is 48 Mbit/s. No tablet made today can play that level of quality.
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
I loaded a Kenny vs. Spenny episode onto a store display via my Evo's bluetooth and it played fine. If the videos I converted for my Evo work on my Xoom, then that's fine with me, and it looks like they will. I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
DebianDog said:
There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
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The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
This pretty much sums it up.
While I'm keeping my Xoom and have made peace with transcoding my videos I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting more from the video playback when I bought it.
MichaelWestin said:
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
Click to expand...
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This nails the issue right on the head. Most 720p TV shows available on Usenet or via Bittorrent are encoded using video codec H264 "high" settings. From what I've read, the xoom struggles to play these files, which I would not have expected given its hardware specs. I'm still going to pick up a wifi-only model from Costco on Sunday, but I may jump to the Galaxy Tab if it is able to play "high" H264 files.
patass said:
I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
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DebianDog said:
I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080.
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I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
pekosROB said:
I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
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You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
khov07 said:
The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this one
sangreal06 said:
That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point.
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Yeah, totally forgot to mention that. 1280x800 definitely can't play full 1080p.
And yeah, I didn't factor in the "you sit way closer to a tablet than a TV factor," but I still would find it hard to believe that people could tell the difference of 720p vs 1080p on a 10.1" screen (even if you are 1-2 feet away, assuming the screen does support 1080p). Definitely not old people - my parents at first didn't see the difference between SD and HD. Now they can definitely tell and even laugh about how they couldn't distinguish the two at first.
Yes, they don't have the best eyesight at their age now. This is why I usually drive when we go somewhere.
sangreal06 said:
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
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I have the "problem" that I ripped all my movies and shows to fit my iPod classic screen (and the car stereo) at 640x480. I unless I want to watch a mini video I'll have to convert the movies anyway. I don't see what the big deal is. If you change your hardware you should expect to run into some kind of trouble. And honestly, our 720p HDTV in the kitchen has a brilliant picture and is hardly any different from the 1080p HDTVs that we have in other rooms.
The "big deal" is for warez peeps who can't play their warez HD videos. They know nothing about video encoding, and they don't want to know. But they do like to get on forums to whine about how they can't play their stolen goods. I've explained enough times that I feel like a broken record, but willful ignorance is a hard habit to break. But once more into the breach...
@muyoso
>Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher
There's nothing that said a H.264 video has to be encoded at level 4.1. For 720p @30fps, 3.1 is fine. Check the H.264 wiki you're so fond of quoting. L4.1 is a warez standard.
But if you want, I can post a high profile @L4.1 clip, and I'll bet it will play just fine. Will you then shut up and leave?
>original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264
Great, no need for you to buy anything else then.
>Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
BS. The Handbrake script I've posted, and people have used, used straight main profile (which allows B-frames).
>Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
What's ridiculous is expecting devices to support warez videos, all of which are encoded for the PC platform, and many of which are badly encoded.
The problem with your whining is that it's all predicated on warez, and that's not something you can offer as evidence when it's put-up time and you're asked for proof.
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
I asked you this twice before, and I'll ask it a third time: If you think the Teg2 is incapable of playing your warez vids, why are you still here?
e.mote said:
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
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driver or not, high profile decoding of h264 is a know limitation of tegra2.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/...-a9s-coming-to-smartphonestablets-this-year/3
One of the stones we've thrown at NVIDIA is the lack of high profile H.264 decode support. Tegra 2 can decode main profile H.264 at up to 20Mbps, but throw any high profile 1080p content at the chip and it can't do it. This is a problem because a lot of video content out there today is high profile, high bitrate 1080p H.264.
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Simple question:
Does the transformer support 1080p video output through its mini hdmi port?
if not: what's the max resolution?
720 i believe
according to nvidia tegra 2 supports 1080P output via hdmi
HDMI 1.3 1920x1080
but
LCD 1024x600 (Tegra 230)
1680x1050 (Tegra 250)
CRT 1280x1024 (Tegra 230)
1600x1200 (Tegra 250)
I also have an question, why LCD output can't use the 1080P output
and why are tablets limited in 720P
the tblet will mirror out at 720p,which means you see the same on the tv as on lcd. It will output video from the video play unmirrored at 1080p, which means whne you send the video to tv the video on the tab is blank/
The reason no 1080p mirrored is because the tab display is only 1280x800.
while 1080p does work for video it is far from perfect. Hopefully they will smooth it out soon.
gottahavit said:
the tblet will mirror out at 720p,which means you see the same on the tv as on lcd. It will output video from the video play unmirrored at 1080p, which means whne you send the video to tv the video on the tab is blank/
The reason no 1080p mirrored is because the tab display is only 1280x800.
while 1080p does work for video it is far from perfect. Hopefully they will smooth it out soon.
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How do you make it to output 1080p video? When I play video (with default player or mobo player), the video is shown on both screens and it only output 720p to the TV.
junks2010 said:
How do you make it to output 1080p video? When I play video (with default player or mobo player), the video is shown on both screens and it only output 720p to the TV.
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Have you updated to 3.1? Is your video 1080p? Worked out of the box for me after update.
because 1080p playback is far from perfect, i do not test 1080P playback since i updated to 3.1
Tegra 2 chip is a kind of joke.
gottahavit said:
Have you updated to 3.1? Is your video 1080p? Worked out of the box for me after update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, my TF is on 3.1 and my video is 1080p but my TV reports that the TF only output 720p. What video player do you use?
Can't get mine to display on screen
Guys, please help me with this:
I tried to connect my transformer (3.1) to my Panasonic Viera Plasma HDTV using a GTMax High Speed Gold-Plated Mini HDMI to HDMI Cable Version 1.4 (25 feet).
My surprise... it didn't work. My understanding is I just had to plug the cable to transformer and tv and enjoy, but the tv screen does nothing and remains blank.
Is it because the length of the cable? or because of the version of the cable(1.4)? Or maybe I have to adjust the resolution somewhere? Or install an app?
Any suggestions?
Thank you very much!
Wrong thread, but...
mfe018 said:
I tried to connect my transformer (3.1) to my Panasonic Viera Plasma HDTV using a GTMax High Speed Gold-Plated Mini HDMI to HDMI Cable Version 1.4 (25 feet).
My surprise... it didn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search...
See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1126746&highlight=hdmi+output
oh and a bit of http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1082885&highlight=hdmi+panasonic
plus quite a few others. Panasonic TVs seem to have issues
"gottahavit
the tblet will mirror out at 720p,which means you see the same on the tv as on lcd. It will output video from the video play unmirrored at 1080p, which means whne you send the video to tv the video on the tab is blank/
The reason no 1080p mirrored is because the tab display is only 1280x800.
while 1080p does work for video it is far from perfect. Hopefully they will smooth it out soon."
Indeed,
Did you succeed to output 1080p resolution to a Full HD TV/monitor?
Which player?
I only can get 720p to both my Sharp and Sony Full HD (1080p) TVs with a full HD (1080p) mp4 Basic line video test (Film Teaser) with Buzz and Rokplayer.
Please advise....
weikichen said:
Tegra 2 chip is a kind of joke.
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Click to collapse
Its one of the best ones out there for tablet unless your going for a full x86/x64 machine. Agree they should have never specified 1080p the tech is currently too slow to do it properly 9/10 times.
Anndy said:
"gottahavit
the tblet will mirror out at 720p,which means you see the same on the tv as on lcd. It will output video from the video play unmirrored at 1080p, which means whne you send the video to tv the video on the tab is blank/
The reason no 1080p mirrored is because the tab display is only 1280x800.
while 1080p does work for video it is far from perfect. Hopefully they will smooth it out soon."
Indeed,
Did you succeed to output 1080p resolution to a Full HD TV/monitor?
Which player?
I only can get 720p to both my Sharp and Sony Full HD (1080p) TVs with a full HD (1080p) mp4 Basic line video test (Film Teaser) with Buzz and Rokplayer.
Please advise....
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Click to collapse
i use the stock player. when you play it is it mirrored on your tab? if so then thats a problem. when outputting 1080p it should blank the video area on the tab.
after 3.1 i had no issues getting this to work. perhaps its the handshake with your tv. i have year old 55in samsung lcd that support 24/60 1080p
ewitte said:
Its one of the best ones out there for tablet unless your going for a full x86/x64 machine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The worst from the best.
Magnesus said:
The worst from the best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it has not advantage over competing solutions. GPU is nothing extraordinary, multimedia engine is a joke, standard A9 CPU. Only pure marketing.
Right now OMAP4 is probably the best SoC when it comes to pure power. Snapdragon with it's 1,5Ghz tablet specific SoC will be much faster than T2 both CPU and GPU wise(and it supports 1080p h264 High Profile 3.1), even now 1,2Ghz version has slightly faster GPU than T2.
Exynos would be great too, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any news about official honeycomb for exynos or any kind of tablet coming running on this SoC.
Wishmaster89 said:
Agreed, it has not advantage over competing solutions. GPU is nothing extraordinary, multimedia engine is a joke, standard A9 CPU. Only pure marketing.
Right now OMAP4 is probably the best SoC when it comes to pure power. Snapdragon with it's 1,5Ghz tablet specific SoC will be much faster than T2 both CPU and GPU wise(and it supports 1080p h264 High Profile 3.1), even now 1,2Ghz version has slightly faster GPU than T2.
Exynos would be great too, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any news about official honeycomb for exynos or any kind of tablet coming running on this SoC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you guys sure that the poor 1080p h264 high profile performance is due to a hardware limitation and NOT due to poor software implementation ? Because Tegra 2 official spec sheet list 1080p encode and decode capability (though profile is not mentioned), but this article says it is capable of accelerating 1080p High profile.
I thought I read somewhere that part of the limitation at the moment is poor software/driver implementation. But the Tegra 2 isn't lacking for regular processing power. My Transformer outruns my Galaxy S when it comes to running regular apps and browsing, but my phone plays 720p videos smoother and supports more file types/containers/codecs.
That's weird.
When i watch a movie on the TF HD to the TV, my TV reports it as 1080p. My TF screen goes blank.
it's not weird, it's the way it's supposed to be. (read the thread!)
the tf's display doesn't support 1080p so it is switched of.
fabsn said:
it's not weird, it's the way it's supposed to be. (read the thread!)
the tf's display doesn't support 1080p so it is switched of.
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Click to collapse
Yes...I saw that. I only was saying that it was weird because so many people were saying that the TF won't do 1080p...and mine does.
I've tried MX player, rock player and the default video player to playback my 1080p videos but they all still lag and play slowly. All videos are in mp4. Are there any apps out there that would be able to do this?
Cheers
try out dice player, and overclock, if ur tf is rooted, should be able to play smoothly. anyway I believe there are threads ard discussing this, please go do a search for them.
darkstar09 said:
I've tried MX player, rock player and the default video player to playback my 1080p videos but they all still lag and play slowly. All videos are in mp4. Are there any apps out there that would be able to do this?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dice player is the best by far IMO, even gets rid of the home and back buttons illuminating.
It plays mkv files and I have files over 3gb which also play without any problems.
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.inisoft.mediaplayer.dice&hl=en
Just for fun I searched this forum for "1080p" in the thread title only. This doesn't include all the other random ways someone has asked this exact same question at least 100 other times.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1251784&highlight=1080p
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1051629&highlight=1080p
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1199268&highlight=1080p
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1192865&highlight=1080p
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121428&highlight=1080p
And there are more. I believe on of the rules of xda is to search first and I know it asks if you have searched for existing threads before you start a new one. Granted it searches all of xda to show you threads but the search button is easily found and searches a specific forum.
This is the first rule of xda
1. Search before posting.
I guarantee this has been asked and answered many times this week alone
not sure about 1080p that's going to be hit and miss especially if you have big file sizes.
I'm using revolver 3.2 at 1.3 and can confirm 720p playback with file sizes of 3 gig or so play perfectly with dice player.
This can play back 1080P files just fine....DEPENDING on the bitrate. It's a limitation of Tegra 2. If the bitrate is high, it will have problems. Just like 720P files with really high bitrates have the same limitations.
Honestly, why does it matter? If you're outputting through HDMI to watch things, then I can kinda understand, but the screen itself only supports 720P. Why bother with 1080P?
Just out of curiosity, does overclocking improve video playback?
darkhawkff said:
This can play back 1080P files just fine....DEPENDING on the bitrate. It's a limitation of Tegra 2. If the bitrate is high, it will have problems. Just like 720P files with really high bitrates have the same limitations.
Honestly, why does it matter? If you're outputting through HDMI to watch things, then I can kinda understand, but the screen itself only supports 720P. Why bother with 1080P?
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Click to collapse
Bitrate, uh?
How much is "really high"? 10mbps? 16mbps? and why the lower the resolution the higher the bitrate it can handle, if I got your post right?
Nah. I have a 1080p file, 16mbps. Plays well without overclock. I have another 1080p file, 10mbps, dosen't play well even at 1.6ghz. 720p file, still 10mbps, needs overclock (even 1.2ghz is enough). The difference between them? the kind of encoding. All this with Diceplayer, not the horrid Rockplayer, mind you.
Diceplayer works on most of my DSLR footage 1080 with 40-60datarate
AlexTheStampede said:
Bitrate, uh?
How much is "really high"? 10mbps? 16mbps? and why the lower the resolution the higher the bitrate it can handle, if I got your post right?
Nah. I have a 1080p file, 16mbps. Plays well without overclock. I have another 1080p file, 10mbps, dosen't play well even at 1.6ghz. 720p file, still 10mbps, needs overclock (even 1.2ghz is enough). The difference between them? the kind of encoding. All this with Diceplayer, not the horrid Rockplayer, mind you.
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I'm struggling with 720p encoded @L4. 1.. Mostly all L3. 1 plays nice in diceplayer.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
If I remember correctly, movies encoded in High Profile will not play back well. Main Profile is the best this machine can handle. I believe it's a Tegra 2 limitation in general.
CptJimmy said:
If I remember correctly, movies encoded in High Profile will not play back well. Main Profile is the best this machine can handle. I believe it's a Tegra 2 limitation in general.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, high L3. 1 is ok with some oc.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
hairyonion said:
not sure about 1080p that's going to be hit and miss especially if you have big file sizes.
I'm using revolver 3.2 at 1.3 and can confirm 720p playback with file sizes of 3 gig or so play perfectly with dice player.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me comment on that:
LOL
Without OC, DICE player (and transformer itself) can only play Level3.1 content and it will slideshow on 99% of internet standard (scene) releases. If you think 'plays perfectly', then you're brain and eyesight damaged.
With OC, you can play play simple 720p content (think WebDL releases) with decent quality (though they will still drop frames in more complex scenes), but more complex releases (think blueray rips) will drop frames on most scenes and slideshow totally on more complex ones.
You would have to be really lucky to find a 1080p movie that will play. Many won't open at all, rest will be dropping frames constantly. When ASUS said that 3.1 update make 1080p playback possible, by playback they meant rendering first frame of the movie.
Dice player is the best
go for it
As mentioned on the other posts about HD playback, the hardware decode of 720p or 1080p H264 with AAC is currently broken in 3.2. Worked fine in 3.1, then got broke. Asus are aware of it and have promised a fix.
If you have such files (e.g. BBC iPlayer HD content) then no player will be able to play them back smoothly as software decode simply can't handle them. Only option is to either transcode or downgrade to HC3.1 to get hardware decode back.
Let's hope the fix is not far off now.
bro just play 720p. trust me you THINK you can tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10' screen but you cant......unless your not human
uploder said:
bro just play 720p. trust me you THINK you can tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10' screen but you cant......unless your not human
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there cannot possibly exist a difference between displaying 720p and 1080p on a 1280x800 screen, since all 1080p content would be scaled down to 720p. Where 1080p would actually matter is if you often connect to a big monitor or HDTV that is capable of 1080p, such as I do on a regular basis for when I want to watch movies without having to boot up my desktop computer. There is definitely a noticeable difference between 720p videos I've converted with Handbrake and the actual 1080p Blu ray movies, but it's not really a big deal for me.
My suggestion for those truly concerned about high quality 1080p playback would be to buy a netbook equipped with a Nvidia ION or comparable video chipset, as I have had no issues playing Blu ray from my own ION-equipped nettop.
yeah my MX player would lag like crazy. Dice is the way to go!
earlyberd said:
Well, there cannot possibly exist a difference between displaying 720p and 1080p on a 1280x800 screen, since all 1080p content would be scaled down to 720p. Where 1080p would actually matter is if you often connect to a big monitor or HDTV that is capable of 1080p, such as I do on a regular basis for when I want to watch movies without having to boot up my desktop computer...........
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Click to collapse
ah i see. then YES. there would definitely be a difference. I just assumed you were watching directly on the TF. my mistake
the Iconia tablet (stock rom 3.2) has a most troubling issue: no (or no smooth) video playback of HD video files, mostly H.264 encoded mkv and mp4 files. Acer and Nvidia claim the device can run 720p and even 1080p in h264 base profile but the bitter reality is that even 90% of 720p video files don't play smoothy due to lack of proper hardware acceleration. this is really a huge disappointment as even most of today's discount phones can play 720p video and i got me a dual core device with a HD screen and a GPU from a dedicated graphics expert company but have to stick to SD video.
i found a statement in the Nvidia developer forum saying that Nvidia is working on this problem with some software partners which indicates that there might be a software solution to this sometime soon:
http://forums.developer.nvidia.com/...6/is-tegra-2-support-neon-intsruction-set-/p1
my question: is a software solution realistic or maybe just a waste of time? personally i doubt it, especially since the successor, Tegra 3, again includes NEON.
but maybe a custom rom like Thor could add enough horsepower to the device to enable at least smooth software decoding? anyone using this rom already noticed a performance gain?
i am looking forward to your comments.
Just install MX Video Player. Plays everything, perfectly smoothly.
FloatingFatMan said:
Just install MX Video Player. Plays everything, perfectly smoothly.
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Click to collapse
you think i would investigate in hardware related stuff and post here if there was a player that could handle all HD video? MX player clearly does not, nor does any other player (dice, mobo, rock, just to name a few of the better ones) handle high profile H.264 video on Tegra 2 devices. so 90% of the stuff available online is not working, means they wont play at all or have massive framerate and sound issues. go and check out the latest movie trailers available in 1080p mp4 or download an x.264 encoded mkv file of your favourite tv show and you can see for yourself.
if you insist on your statement, then please put up a video source so i can verify. i would really love to learn that you are right and i have just a broken device ;-)
uli68 said:
you think i would investigate in hardware related stuff and post here if there was a player that could handle all HD video? MX player clearly does not, nor does any other player (dice, mobo, rock, just to name a few of the better ones) handle high profile H.264 video on Tegra 2 devices. so 90% of the stuff available online is not working, means they wont play at all or have massive framerate and sound issues. go and check out the latest movie trailers available in 1080p mp4 or download an x.264 encoded mkv file of your favourite tv show and you can see for yourself.
if you insist on your statement, then please put up a video source so i can verify. i would really love to learn that you are right and i have just a broken device ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if you're trying to play 1080p video on a device that only has a native resolution of 1280 x 800 as this statement indicates, then the joke is on you sir.
guys, please read my post carefully or even better inform yourself and stop posting such unhelpful comments.
kjy2010 said:
Well if you're trying to play 1080p video on a device that only has a native resolution of 1280 x 800 as this statement indicates, then the joke is on you sir.
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Click to collapse
it's Acer and Nvidea who claim that Tegra 2 can play and output 1080p video (base profile h264) through HDMI, not me. i've just fallen for their marketing, trying to play some of my favourite 720p tv shows on my so called "HD device"...
also, i don't get your point about the resolution. are you trying to say that a full HD display is mandatory in order to enjoy a 1080p video? or that its content will look better if video resolution would match the Iconia display resolution? sorry sir, i really think you are the funny guy here.
uli68 said:
guys, please read my post carefully or even better inform yourself and stop posting such unhelpful comments.
it's Acer and Nvidea who claim that Tegra 2 can play and output 1080p video (base profile h264) through HDMI, not me. i've just fallen for their marketing, trying to play some of my favourite 720p tv shows on my so called "HD device"...
also, i don't get your point about the resolution. are you trying to say that you need full HD display in order to enjoy a 1080p video? or that its content will look better if video resolution would match the display resolution? sorry sir, i really think you are the funny guy here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I guess I'll just have to write you off as a n00btard if you think that playing a 1080p video on a 1280 x 800 screen will benefit you in any way, shape, or form roflol
kjy2010 said:
OK I guess I'll just have to write you off as a n00btard if you think that playing a 1080p video on a 1280 x 800 screen will benefit you in any way, shape, or form roflol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i did not say i wanted to play 1080p on my device - you are clearly not able to read and most probably just a fanboy.
besides, i still don't get your point. i would chose 1080p over 720p if i had the choice. and you would stick to 720p or SD because you think there is no "benefit" in playing higher resolution content on smaller display? well, quantified the benefit would be at least 80 lines more content, don't you think?
there might be cases where a hard- or software scaler messes up while downscaling a video and picture quality degrades, but generally the higher the resolution the better the picture quality, regardless of display resolution.
now, back to topic please!
uli68 said:
i did not say i wanted to play 1080p on my device - you are clearly not able to read and most probably just a fanboy.
now, back to topic please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.........................
uli68 said:
it's Acer and Nvidea who claim that Tegra 2 can play and output 1080p video (base profile h264) through HDMI, not me. i've just fallen for their marketing, trying to play some of my favourite 720p tv shows on my so called "HD device"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Atleast I can play baseline and normal profile H.264 content at 1080p just fine. It's only high-profile that reverts to software and doesn't play well.
are you trying to say that a full HD display is mandatory in order to enjoy a 1080p video?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The display itself is 720p, so trying to play 1080p content on a 720p display is kind of pointless. You won't see the extra resolution anyways. Though if you're playing through HDMI to a 1080p display then it makes sense.
---------- Post added at 01:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------
uli68 said:
but generally the higher the resolution the better the picture quality, regardless of display resolution.
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Click to collapse
Not entirely correct. Higher resolution doesn't equal better compression quality, so you can easily have 1080p video that looks like ass crap, and you can have SD video that looks better.
That said there are lots of reasons to choose 720p over 1080p on A500: 720p high-profile video generally looks much better than 1080p baseline-profile, high-profile fares a lot better in high-motion scenes, and high-profile takes less storage space than baseline-profile. And well, since you can't see the extra resolution anyways you're just wasting extra storage space on stuff you can't even see.
http://www.arm.com/community/partners/display_product/rw/ProductId/5770/
clearly states 1080p support via HDMI output.... is this what your after???
uli68 said:
my question: is a software solution realistic or maybe just a waste of time? personally i doubt it, especially since the successor, Tegra 3, again includes NEON.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A software solution will only boost applications that are specifically designed to utilize it, and the hardware simply isn't fast enough to decode 1080p high-profile in software at full speed, so no, no matter what NVIDIA is claiming they cannot do magic tricks here.
but maybe a custom rom like Thor could add enough horsepower to the device to enable at least smooth software decoding? anyone using this rom already noticed a performance gain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thor or some other custom ROM can only increase clock speed, there is nothing else to be done about it. And you can increase clock speed even on the stock ROM anyways.
But as I mentioned I have absolutely no problem running 1080p baseline- or normal-profile content, or 720p content, because I am not using the stock player. Use one of the players from Android Market, they're a lot faster and smarter than the stock player.
Also an important note to you: the stock player reverts to SOFTWARE if audio is AC3 encoded. That is probably the issue you're seeing. The players from Android Market do AC3 in software, but send the video to the hardware, so that's why they don't lag with AC3 audio.
uli68 said:
i did not say i wanted to play 1080p on my device - you are clearly not able to read and most probably just a fanboy.
besides, i still don't get your point. i would chose 1080p over 720p if i had the choice. and you would stick to 720p or SD because you think there is no "benefit" in playing higher resolution content on smaller display? well, quantified the benefit would be at least 80 lines more content, don't you think?
there might be cases where a hard- or software scaler messes up while downscaling a video and picture quality degrades, but generally the higher the resolution the better the picture quality, regardless of display resolution.
now, back to topic please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on topic, if you can't understand that attempting to play 1080p Res videos on a 1280x800 display has no benefits whatsoever, then maybe you need one of These.
I honestly don't understand what is so friggin' tough about understanding the concept, and you clearly stated 1080p in your first post.
He's trying to playback through the HDMI port, muppet.
Here ya go, educate yourself.
" If the incoming source has more pixels than the display's native resolution, you will lose some visible detail and sharpness, though often what you're left with still looks great. If the incoming source has fewer pixels than the native resolution, you're not getting any extra sharpness from the television's pixels."
http://reviews.cnet.com/hdtv-resolution/
guys, and ladies, please, this thread is not about pro and contra of full hd content on smaller displays.
the question is:
is it likely that (at some point soon) there will be a workaround to overcome the issue of the missing NEON video instruction set on Tegra 2?
again, my goal is not to play 1080p content on my Iconia, just some 720p stuff, mostly TV shows encoded in H264 high profile mkv files. and no, they wont run using MX player or any other player currently available. and i guess that's also due to the missing NEON. please see the link provided in my first post.
uli68 said:
guys, and ladies, please, this thread is not about pro and contra of full hd content on smaller displays.
the question is:
is it likely that (at some point soon) there will be a workaround to overcome the issue of the missing NEON video instruction set on Tegra 2?
again, my goal is not to play 1080p content on my Iconia, just some 720p stuff, mostly TV shows encoded in H264 high profile mkv files. and no, they wont run using MX player or any other player currently available. and i guess that's also due to the missing NEON. please see the link provided in my first post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already answered your questions.
WereCatf said:
A software solution will only boost applications that are specifically designed to utilize it, and the hardware simply isn't fast enough to decode 1080p high-profile in software at full speed, so no, no matter what NVIDIA is claiming they cannot do magic tricks here.
Thor or some other custom ROM can only increase clock speed, there is nothing else to be done about it. And you can increase clock speed even on the stock ROM anyways.
But as I mentioned I have absolutely no problem running 1080p baseline- or normal-profile content, or 720p content, because I am not using the stock player. Use one of the players from Android Market, they're a lot faster and smarter than the stock player.
Also an important note to you: the stock player reverts to SOFTWARE if audio is AC3 encoded. That is probably the issue you're seeing. The players from Android Market do AC3 in software, but send the video to the hardware, so that's why they don't lag with AC3 audio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks. well, in respect to 1080p content i don't have much hope either. but, and again, 720p content encoded in h264 high profile does NOT work for me. i have massive framerate issues and sound also drops off completely after a few seconds. i tested with google, rockplayer and mx player (all of the latest builds).
here's another example file for you and everyone else to check and report back:
The.Walking.Dead.S02E06.PROPER.720p.HDTV.x264-ORENJI.mkv
Who's the ignoramus?
kjy2010 said:
Here ya go, educate yourself.
" If the incoming source has more pixels than the display's native resolution, you will lose some visible detail and sharpness, though often what you're left with still looks great. If the incoming source has fewer pixels than the native resolution, you're not getting any extra sharpness from the television's pixels."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sir are an ignorant boor who is incapable of reading. You couldn't read the posts properly and you can't even read your quote properly.
A 1080p file has more visual information. For example, it's possible to see a small mole on somebodies face in 1080p that in 720p or lower has been smoothed out and is now invisible. Playing that 1080p file on a lower resolution device gives the possibility that the mole will be visible depending on how the hardware scaling is done and since most hardware scaling isn't going for compressed file size and won't be applying gaussian blurs etc... you WILL see that mole.
The new Nook Tablet and Kindle Fire have the same screen resolution, one streams videos at SD and the other at HD. Now even though the tablet isn't capable of HD the one that streams HD is noticably sharper and has more detail. Go look up the pictures if you want. Take your own advice and educate yourself before you berate people for their ignorance when it is you who are ignorant with poor reading comprehension.
jmc23 said:
A 1080p file has more visual information. For example, it's possible to see a small mole on somebodies face in 1080p that in 720p or lower has been smoothed out and is now invisible. Playing that 1080p file on a lower resolution device gives the possibility that the mole will be visible depending on how the hardware scaling is done and since most hardware scaling isn't going for compressed file size and won't be applying gaussian blurs etc... you WILL see that mole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't matter if the picture is scaled down before compression or after decompression, it's still scaled down. And no sane compression technology uses gaussian blur.
The new Nook Tablet and Kindle Fire have the same screen resolution, one streams videos at SD and the other at HD. Now even though the tablet isn't capable of HD the one that streams HD is noticably sharper and has more detail. Go look up the pictures if you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference is due to the fact that the HD video is compressed with better quality settings than the SD video. Besides, Kindle Fire IS 1024x600 pixels in size which means it is indeed almost 720p HD resolution meaning that HD content only needs to be scaled down by 120 lines whereas SD content has to be scaled UP instead: well, OF COURSE it will look like crap.
In other words you're comparing apples and oranges and you don't know what you're talking about either.
---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------
uli68 said:
here's another example file for you and everyone else to check and report back:
The.Walking.Dead.S02E06.PROPER.720p.HDTV.x264-ORENJI.mkv
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just tried that file with Dice Player. It stutters for about 5 seconds, then settles down and works like a dream. In other words, working just fine on my tablet.
I had problems playing 720p mkv files as well, no matter which player I used. The stock 3.2 rom appears to be missing the framework for hardware decoding of these files. No such problems since installing various Thor roms though. They all play fine now. 1080p is probably too much though. I use mx player by the way.