Database Users

Hermes Lithium Battery. End of story.

Hello everyone. First of all, let me congratulate all of you who have made this incredible site. I've been reading your threads for 3 weeks and finally i wanted to make my first post. I didnt wanted to be a stupid post so thats why it took me 3 weeks to make it.
I got my first Hermes 5 days ago (yes i searched for info about hermes 2 weeks before i got it) and it is everything i always wanted/needed.
I live in a city called Temuco in Chile (A southamerican country ) and this toys are very expensive even if its a 2 or 3 years old toy like hermes).
When i received my Hermes i was ready to flash roms and got everything to do it, thanks to you guys),
I'm very pleased with some of your roms and now im using [OPTIMIZED Manilla2d][20755 09/29](AlmostNak3d)(V8) by joshkoss.
The only subject that worried me was.................... Battery life, so i did some searching and thats my first post about. Hope you guys find it usefull. I know there are some battery related posts around but wanted to make some conclusions about the subject.
Here we go.
I've been searching and reading different articles about optimizing a li-ion and li-ion polymer battery, as they basically behave the same way.
In recent days i've been thinking a way to keep my battery life longer.
What i first thought, and without any knowledge, is what i've heard all my life: "A fast charged" battery lasts shorter than a "slow charge" battery.
In some battery chargers there are two ways to charge batteries. Slow and fast. And i always feel that slow charge was better than fast, so i thought.
My Hermes charger is 5V 1A.
If i charge my hermes through USB (Which i think has less than 1A) my battery should be "better charged" and the charge should last longer.
I never quite tested this but as a normal "battery user" it sounded more logical to me.
So i searched on google if there was any information about li-ion batteries and its characteristics.
I went to www.batteryuniversity.com and what i read astonished me.
Battery Conclusions
1.- Lithium batteries are completely different than older nickel based batteries.
2.- Lithium is a very unstable element and behaves abnormally when overcharging and overdischarging.
3.- According to batteryuniversity, "Overcharging makes the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame."
4.- Over-discharging is as dangerous as overcharging. According to batteryuniversity, if discharged, "Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured."
5.- Lithium batteries are usually overcharge and over-discharge protected.
6.- You shouldnt use chargers different than the manufacturer's one.
7.- End of story and End ob battery thoughts.
I (we) just have to live with that.

The Li-on cells for my Makita tools are charged on a computer controlled charger. It reads temp and level of charge and charges accordingly. Manufacturers estimate 3000 charges before the battery is dead, and this after fast heavy discharge that can make a battery too hot to hold and fast charge that takes 22 minute on a 3ah batttery from fully flat to fully charged.
The people who use Li-on at the edge of their accepted use, the radio control flyers, use computer controlled chargers that read the same parameters and more. Many of their chargers read individual cells and balance the charge. Again, after use, the batteries can be too hot to hold.
In a phone or a laptop we use a wall wart the same as any old nicad. I dont know if any clever stuff goes on inside the laptop or phone to regulate charge level according to battery condition but I don't think so. We get about a year out of a laptop that is trickle charged. I'm on almost 2 years for my Tytn with no discernable drop in life but I think I've been lucky, it seems to be about a year for many people. So that's 365 charges, approx.
My guess is that it's charger technology rather than battery technology that limits our battery life.

The Hermes does have a battery sensor. It can be screwed up though when you go below a certain level (<10%), hence people who have trouble recharging a TOTALLY flat battery. The Hermes sensor doesn't detect a battery giving a red LED.

I don't know anything about battery...
I'm currently have a problem with a battery or power-related. My X01HT have just 1 day life in use. I was try it with different second-hand battery, but it likes first condition when only life in 1 day. Hmm.. may be which is the wrong? The battery or the phone?
I have 2 set of X01HT, next time I will try to exchange the battery from both of it. I want to test their battery life to compare and make conclusion about which is the wrong between the battery or the phone.
My tested phone have radio version 1.14.01.10 and have unlocked with NextGenServer. I am using the newest Pays ROM Full. IPL: 1.04. SSPL: 2.60 (Olipro). I have experienced using Pays ROM in twice, first which already sold and the second is this case. Both of the have the same radio version. I think the first one is okay about the life stability, but this one have a problem. May be ROM have influenced the battery life? Or may be IPL/SSPL have caused instability too?
Sorry guys, about poor in English. May be I need to make a thread to share my problem with you.
Thanks.

Hermes are battery hogs but some programs can be power leeches too.
If the radio rom isn't good for your area it also can be a power drain as it is constantly scanning for connection.
I tend to find about 2 days is all my battery lasts for with a little bit of use. Depends what you are using....
Cheers...

I have 3 pieces of SoftBank X01HT.
One of them just fine in the life of the battery, so network here is fine too (maybe). But this one is already sold, so I can't test the battery to my another X01HT which have a critical power problem.
Another X01HT so sleepy, the life of the battery just 1 day. I was try to replace the battery with another battery (2ndhand and I don't know the condition actually) but it have no change, just 1 day too, may be less... Now I try the third battery. I'll reported soon about this...
So how about your opinion about critical power in the X01HT? May be there is another factor beside the battery? Beside the program/OS? May be some physically probelm with their board or etc?
Sorry about poor in English.

I can't say much about the X01HT... All Hermes internals should be the same, but they may put extra things in or take things out depending where you buy your Hermes.
So saying, the Hermes, if not all HTC phones, seem to use a large amount of power. If you use apps it will of course discharge faster.
Sometimes it can be as simple as changing the radio rom but this is risky as the radio rom tends to be permanent brick if something goes wrong with the flash.
Maybe an app you have running and don't realise, I had a BT program that did this, had to shut it down or my battery was down to 70%in about an hour or 2.
Cheers...

Can it hurt the battery if ...

I've often wondered about this issue, but haven't been able to find a clear answer. Yes, I searched the forums here, and still no solution.
When I'm at home, my phone is usually connected to my PC through ActiveSync. During this time it's ALWAYS charging.
Here's my question:
Is there ANY problem with leaving the phone on charge through the USB connection, even when it's fully charged and the green light is on?
Some people say it reduces battery life, and it makes the battery very hot, but mine never gets hot. It may get mildly warm, but that's it.
So, any comments?
Thanks,
Peter

PeterHTC said:
I've often wondered about this issue, but haven't been able to find a clear answer. Yes, I searched the forums here, and still no solution.
When I'm at home, my phone is usually connected to my PC through ActiveSync. During this time it's ALWAYS charging.
Here's my question:
Is there ANY problem with leaving the phone on charge through the USB connection, even when it's fully charged and the green light is on?
Some people say it reduces battery life, and it makes the battery very hot, but mine never gets hot. It may get mildly warm, but that's it.
So, any comments?
Thanks,
Peter
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There's no problem at all. In fact the battery benefits from it.

all li-ion and li-po batteries have a overall lifespan, they naturally degrade in a chemical process, the main things that accelerate this are charge and temperature. The more time they are kept charged in a warm environment the capacity reduces
so if you took two batteries and left one 30% charged at 10C and another 100% charged at 30C for 12 months, the fully charged battery will degrade faster and have less of its rated capacity available. this is why you find laptop batteries loosing capacity when they spend most of their time plugged in
i used to worry about the effect, but with cheap replacement batteries available from ebay its really not something i'd worry about now, when the battery gets really bad just replace it

Thank you for the quick reply, guys.
Peter

[Q] Will keeping my Transformer and Dock charged ruin the battery?

Hello!
This is my first post here on the forums. I had a question about my tablet and dock... is it ok to keep them charged (above 80 percent throughout the day?). The battery just doesn't go down, and it's a force of habit to just charge it when I go to sleep. Will the battery life potential decrease over time? Should I let it run out every time I charge it?
Thanks

Tryptonaut said:
The battery just doesn't go down,
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Tell me about it i'd get about 32hrs of use out of both Tab and Dock! but i charge it up every chance i get, i can't see it doing any harm.

I believe that's a bad habit, it's better to charge when u think u r gonna use it for next 6 hours even when the battery is still above 50%.

I know its meant to be bad habit charging when you don't need it but I wonder how much of that is true anymore and how much is just legacy from the old tech?
I know the new batteries don't suffer as much these days with over charging and they don't discharge like they used to. The actual devices have gotten better as well by stopping charge when they detect the battery is full.
So where does the legacy / rumor end and the truth begin? Its one thing to say "best practice is to fully charge & discharge" but unless you charge when you can you might run out of power without proper planning

It's old tech, these days the chargers themselves regulate the current to the battery dynamically anyways so you can keep it plugged in all you want. The only reason they tell you to drain it/charge it fully once in a while is for Android battery calibration, not because the battery will die.

leonpr said:
I know its meant to be bad habit charging when you don't need it but I wonder how much of that is true anymore and how much is just legacy from the old tech?
I know the new batteries don't suffer as much these days with over charging and they don't discharge like they used to. The actual devices have gotten better as well by stopping charge when they detect the battery is full.
So where does the legacy / rumor end and the truth begin? Its one thing to say "best practice is to fully charge & discharge" but unless you charge when you can you might run out of power without proper planning
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I think that rumor has existed for long time. I still remember the first time I bought my laptop around 2005. this battery issue came into my consideration. searched here n there and I came into conclusion that my new laptop should adopt the 'stop charging when its full '. but I regret that, my laptop battery life drop fast less than one year.
and till now, I never want to take that risk again on my laptop, phone, n epad. well one thing for sure someone have to prove it, I hope you can report back in 6 month

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Pretty informative article about lithium batteries, which is what's in the tf.
Basically, partial charge is better than full charge. Do not run the battery dry though, very bad for lithium batteries to be discharged too much. The adapter does sense a full charge and will stop, so no worries about overcharging or thermal runaway.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

Oh.Y.Not said:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Pretty informative article about lithium batteries, which is what's in the tf.
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Specifically, it's lithium polymer, which is this article:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/the_li_polymer_battery_substance_or_hype
However yes, for most intents and purposes, li-poly behaves similarly to standard li-ion.
Partial charge is only better than full charge if the manufacturer hasn't set the cut-off point when charging *below* full charge already, though. That, only ASUS really knows so far.

fast charging in galaxy note 4

hi
in an emergency to enable fast charging or in normal mode?
This option is enabled for better battery or not?
Explain in general, this option is enabled for better battery or the reverse is not an option?

In emergency you can charge in fast charging mode. Or maybe always charge in fast charging mode. If it was not good for the battery, Samsung may not have made this feature in the first place. And Samsung must have spent enough in R&D to figure how fast to charge in fast charging mode. But since I am usually not in hurry and traditionally slow charging is better for the battery, I have disabled fast charging.

yes indeed @willstay
just as charging the 12V car battery Lower Speed is Better for long term battery life

A car battery uses technology completely different to Li-Ion... therefore, the charging procedure is not the same

This entire thread killed a few brain cells.

Since my battery is exchangeable pretty easily, it doesn't make much sense to me to do without this feature. How much does it shorten battery life in the end? Any infos available?

I don't think it shortens battery life much since it will charge your phone faster and produce the same amount of heat as the normal charge.I think it doesn't really matter which mode you use.

luismedina said:
A car battery uses technology completely different to Li-Ion... therefore, the charging procedure is not the same
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it is a diffrenet technology but still it is a battery
we all agree lower is better
yes the battery is easily replacable
but in my country i dont trust buying a battery ( even the the buyer says it is original ), the battery that comes in the phone is the best one coming form Samsung
so for me better take care of its health

^Lots of fake Samsung batteries around indeed. Still: it makes me so much more relaxed to know that it takes just a little bit more than half an hour to be at 50% again. I don't even bother to charge my phone over night anymore. Which IMO is absolutely awesome! ?

new battery dead?

Guys I need some help pls.
I ordered new battery, yesterday I opened phone carefully and replaced old battery, all went smooth.
But when try to switch on phone doesnt start. When connecting to psu it starts normally, battery shows 100% and not charging. If remove cable phone turns off instantly.
I wiped cache, dalvik, batterystats, no luck. Tried different psu, the same
I put old battery back and phone turns on and works ok, same as before.
Is possible that new battery coud be completely dead?
The new battery printed manufactured date is older than my current battery. 06-2015 vs 12-2015.
Is there anything else I should try , beside rma?
Thank you

csjneek said:
Guys I need some help pls.
I ordered new battery, yesterday I opened phone carefully and replaced old battery, all went smooth.
But when try to switch on phone doesnt start. When connecting to psu it starts normally, battery shows 100% and not charging. If remove cable phone turns off instantly.
I wiped cache, dalvik, batterystats, no luck. Tried different psu, the same
I put old battery back and phone turns on and works ok, same as before.
Is possible that new battery coud be completely dead?
The new battery printed manufactured date is older than my current battery. 06-2014 vs 12-2014.
Is there anything else I should try , beside rma?
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, there's a battery thread, where good replacements are linked. A 3 year old battery isn't a good replacement. Give it back to the seller. And did you try to put your "new battery" a second time in your phone, may you just didn't connect the cable correctly at first try. ???

coremania said:
Yes, there's a battery thread, where good replacements are linked. A 3 year old battery isn't a good replacement. Give it back to the seller. And did you try to put your "new battery" a second time in your phone, may you just didn't connect the cable correctly at first try. ???
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Click to collapse
Thanks for reply,
Yes I did with case open swapped old and new one multiple times to be sure, old one turns on and charging, new one don't.

csjneek said:
Thanks for reply,
Yes I did with case open swapped old and new one multiple times to be sure, old one turns on and charging, new one don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then buy a better replacement, may not a 3 year
old one

Do search for " Cameron sino" for nexus 6p on either eBay or Amazon and buy that battery. I got mine for 25.00 . My phone charges to 100%, discharges slowly and doesn't shut off anymore at less than 20% battery like it did before. Accubattery app on playstore shows my battery health at 97% now ,the stock one was at 67% health. It does take a couple of full charges and full discharges to manage that health readout. Cameron sino seems to be the best one I've had so far. Just make sure you charge it to 100 and use it till it shuts off the first few times and profit. Trains the battery to fully charge and discharge . People make the mistake of charging when it isn't dead and that slowly suck the life out of your new batteries.

wmills said:
Just make sure you charge it to 100 and use it till it shuts off the first few times and profit. Trains the battery to fully charge and discharge . People make the mistake of charging when it isn't dead and that slowly suck the life out of your new batteries.
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Click to collapse
This might be true for nickel cadmium and nickel-metal hydride batteries , but it doesn't apply to lithium ion batteries. If anything, it's better to charge the battery when it still has ~20% left and stop charging around 80%. Lithium ion batteries don't like being too discharged or too charged as it causes them to wear out faster.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
https://lifehacker.com/smartphone-battery-myths-explained-1735327089
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/true-or-false-battery-myths-that-need-to-die/
http://www.androidauthority.com/battery-myths-688089/

Whoa great been doing all wrong ,you are a wealth of knowledge

wmills said:
Whoa great been doing all wrong ,you are a wealth of knowledge
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Click to collapse
After quickly destroying the battery in my Galaxy Nexus I decided to research ways to prolong the life of the battery in my smartphone, especially since the phone I replaced it with (Nexus 6) didn't have a removable battery. So far they've worked great. Several tips I have are:
1. Plug in when you get to ~20-25%. If you want to be super extreme you can use an app like Battery Charge Limit to stop charging at 80%. Like I said earlier, discharging/charging too far is bad for the battery.
2. Don't use fast charging. This heats up the battery and wears it out faster. I've used the 1 amp charger from my Galaxy Nexus on my Nexus 6 and 6P and it has definitely helped prolong the life of the battery.
3. Don't use the phone while charging. This causes it to heat up and wears out the battery faster. Light things like texting or browsing XDA with their app won't heat it up too much, but gaming or installing ROMs while plugged in is very bad.
4. Don't charge the phone overnight while it's on. Obviously after the phone reaches full capacity it stops charging, but if your phone is on and running stuff in the background the battery will drain. When it drops to 98% it starts to trickle charge again until it reaches full capacity. This cycle of charging and draining will occur several times throughout the night and adds unnecessary wear cycles to the battery. It's best to charge while the phone is off to avoid this cycle.
5. Don't let the battery get too hot or too cold. Low temperatures can be just as harmful to batteries as high temperatures. If it's 100°F or 0°F outside and your battery is getting very hot or very cold it's best to just leave the phone in your pocket until you're in a place with a more reasonable temperature, such as inside a building or something. Lithium ion batteries prefer a happy medium, which is usually around room temperature (~68°F).
6. Keep the phone cool while doing CPU intensive tasks that cause it to heat up. When I install a ROM and boot it for the first time, wipe cache/dalvik after installing something, run the auto patcher in WakeBlock, or anything else that causes the CPU to run at a high frequency for prolonged periods of time I remove my phone from its case and place it in front of a fan on high speed. This keeps it from getting too hot, but doesn't let it get too cold. Placing your phone in the fridge/freezer will also keep it cool, but lets the battery get too cold, so that method is not recommend.
7. I use an app like EX Kernel Manager to display the battery/CPU temperatures in the notification area. If I notice the temperatures are getting too high or too low I stop using the phone until it cools down or I'm somewhere warmer. This can be annoying on Oreo because you get notifications of apps running in the background, but that's pretty easy to block
Keeping the phone cool can also help avoid the defect in the Snapdragon 810 that causes the BLOD (boot loop of death), which usually occurs when the solder holding the processor to the mother board develops cracks.
Based on posts I've seen in this forum most people begin to experience battery or boot loop issues after about a year or so. I've had my 6P for about a year and have not had any battery, heat, or boot loop issues. In my experience, taking care of your phone and being "extra nice" to it is the key to prolonging its life. After 2 years of using my Nexus 6, battery life on the day I sold it was just as good as day I unboxed it. I don't want to jinx myself, but the same goes for my 6P. After almost a year of use I can still go 16+ hours off the charger with 4+ hours of SOT and 30% or more left in the battery when I plug it in at night.

I'm gonna try this

Face_Plant said:
After quickly destroying the battery in my Galaxy Nexus I decided to research ways to prolong the life of the battery in my smartphone, especially since the phone I replaced it with (Nexus 6) didn't have a removable battery. So far they've worked great. Several you're l tips I have are:
1. Plug in when you get to ~20-25%. If you want to be super extreme you can use an app like Battery Charge Limit to stop charging at 80%. Like I said earlier, discharging/charging too far is bad for the battery.
2. Don't use fast charging. This heats up the battery and wears it out faster. I've used the 1 amp charger from my Galaxy Nexus on my Nexus 6 and 6P and it has definitely helped prolong the life of the battery.
3. Don't use the phone while charging. This causes it to heat up and wears out the battery faster. Light things like texting or browsing XDA with their app won't heat it up too much, but gaming or installing ROMs while plugged in is very bad.
4. Don't charge the phone overnight while it's on. Obviously after the phone reaches full capacity it stops charging. If your phone is on and running stuff in the background, the battery will drain a little. When it drops to 98% it starts to trickle charge again until it reaches full capacity. This cycle of charging, draining, and recharging will occur several times throughout the night and adds unnecessary wear cycles to the battery. It's best to charge while the phone is off to avoid this cycle.
5. Don't let the battery get too hot or too cold. If it's 100°F or 0°F outside and your battery is getting very hot or very cold it's best to just leave the phone in your pocket until you're in a place with a more reasonable temperature, such as inside a building or something
6. Keep the phone cool while doing CPU intensive tasks that cause it to heat up. When I install a ROM and boot it for the first time, wipe cache/dalvik after installing something, run the auto patcher in WakeBlock, or anything else that causes the CPU to run at a high frequency for prolonged periods of time I remove my phone from its case and place it in front of a fan on high speed. This keeps it cool, but not too cold, and doesn't allow it to get too hot. Don't place it in the fridge/freezer. Doing that will cause the battery to become too cold.
7. I use an app like EX Kernel Manager to display the battery/CPU temperatures in the notification area. If I notice the temperatures are getting too high or too low I stop using the phone until it cools down or I'm somewhere warmer. This can be annoying on Oreo because you get notifications of apps running in the background, but that's pretty easy to block
Keeping the phone cool can also help avoid the defect in the Snapdragon 810 that causes the BLOD (boot loop of death), which usually occurs when the solder holding the processor to the mother board develops cracks.
Based on posts I've seen in this forum most people begin to experience battery or boot loop issues after about a year or so. I've had my 6P for about a year and have not had any battery, heat, or boot loop issues. In my experience, taking care of your phone and being "extra nice" to it is the key to prolonging its life. After 2 years of using my Nexus 6, battery life on the day I sold it was just as good as day I unboxed it. I don't want to jinx myself, but the same goes for my 6P. After almost a year of use I can still go 16+ hours off the charger with 4+ hours of SOT and 30% or more left in the battery when I plug it in at night.
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Definitely going to try these methods on my brand new Nexus 6p. Thanks for posting that. Very helpful.