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Ok, so here's the deal. US subscribers are in a pickle as far as unlimited data plans are concerned with tethering. Our plans suck (comparatively).
Some of it has to do with wording of contracts by carriers. Some of it has to do with the entitlement we feel when we purchased our respective unlimited data plans. Either way, we all feel hurt by this. As consumers, we want it our way. We want our unlimited data plans to cover our 2GB months to our 200GB months. We don't want to be told about limits on plans labeled and sold as unlimited.
Here's where you come in. How would you change the terms of the agreement as an AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, or other carrier's customer if you were in charge? Keep in mind that you may have limited network resources, funds, or staff to carry out the extreme plans. You still need to generate income for your investors. What would you do to make your customers happy as well as the investors? Is it possible? Is there any sort of reform that is possible in our wireless industry?
Ban contracts all-together. The bundling of phones with network vastly distorts both markets; phones are no longer truly competing on price (e.g. apple's strong position with the iPhone allows them to dictate high carrier subsidies, whose costs must be paid off by effectively taxing everyone else on the network) while carriers are instead competing on phones (rather than the quality of their service).
On the other hand, without subsidies (which essentially hide the costs for the average person who doesn't think it through), manufacturers would have to actually worry about choosing a price low enough to be attractive. This is something that is sorely missing under the current regime.
Not to mention, contracts themselves are effectively anti-competitive, locking in users who don't really know how to properly evaluate their choices. The way to ensure the best service for the user is to allow them to quit at a moment's notice.
Now, I notice you might be thinking more specifically about how the service agreements can be modified, rather than the "contracts" per se. Do the above, and this woud automatically happen. The carriers will have to actually compete for better service (rather than just drawing in people with new shiny phones in order to lock them in). If their service is not up to par with their advertisements, people would just quit the next month. Hence, no more random throttling of plans, etc.
thebobp said:
Ban contracts all-together. The bundling of phones with network vastly distorts both markets; phones are no longer truly competing on price (e.g. apple's strong position with the iPhone allows them to dictate high carrier subsidies, whose costs must be paid off by effectively taxing everyone else on the network) while carriers are instead competing on phones (rather than the quality of their service).
On the other hand, without subsidies (which essentially hide the costs for the average person who doesn't think it through), manufacturers would have to actually worry about choosing a price low enough to be attractive. This is something that is sorely missing under the current regime.
Not to mention, contracts themselves are effectively anti-competitive, locking in users who don't really know how to properly evaluate their choices. The way to ensure the best service for the user is to allow them to quit at a moment's notice.
Now, I notice you might be thinking more specifically about how the service agreements can be modified, rather than the "contracts" per se. Do the above, and this woud automatically happen. The carriers will actually have to compete for better service, rather than just ensure that people are locked in longer than they can think about. If their service is not up to par with their advertisements, people would quit the next month. No more throttling plans with nothing the users can say about it.
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I understand your position, but I have doubts that this would be possible to implement in our market. T-Mobile's CMO made a statement about device subsidies contorting what the devices actually cost. T-Mobile actually has a line of Value plans that are kind of on par with what you're thinking about. The rate plans are considerably cheaper than the ones with a device subsidy. The real problem is convincing the other carriers to follow suit.
See, by doing this, it put investors at risk. It's all a money making game. If an idea isn't profitable, then it generally never sees the light of day. What about a sales model similar to what T-Mobile is offering? Could you see a way to make this model profitable to both carriers and consumers alike?
I think it should be handled like the european networks handle their service agreements. You sign up for service when you buy a phone, and you pay full retail price for the phone. Then you pay a relatively lower price for service. Instead of paying say, 59.99 for a phone that retails for 399.99 and then paying 100$ give or take a little each month, you pay full price for the phone, and then get your bill for 50ish a month. Which one sounds better?
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leo321 said:
I think it should be handled like the european networks handle their service agreements. You sign up for service when you buy a phone, and you pay full retail price for the phone. Then you pay a relatively lower price for service. Instead of paying say, 59.99 for a phone that retails for 399.99 and then paying 100$ give or take a little each month, you pay full price for the phone, and then get your bill for 50ish a month. Which one sounds better?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
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I agree that this would benefit us more as consumers, but we would need to come up with a marketable solution to the current situation that would be agreeable to the carriers as well.
cajunflavoredbob said:
If an idea isn't profitable, then it generally never sees the light of day.
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This.
Blaming carrier greed is easy but really doesn't solve anything. Carriers want to make more money and contracts make them more money - I can't fault them for that.
I don't see the US market becoming like Europe's. Although T-Mobile USA is trying to change things, I can think of two things in the way:
-Americans are too stupid to save money~~ Everyone thinks short term savings, hence the persistence of contracts.
-Carrier incompatibility~~ Verizon and Sprint are CDMA. T-Mobile and AT&T run on (mostly) different 3G bands. Buy a phone for full retail and you're probably going to be stuck with one carrier anyway.
luftrofl said:
This.
Blaming carrier greed is easy but really doesn't solve anything. Carriers want to make more money and contracts make them more money - I can't fault them for that.
I don't see the US market becoming like Europe's. Although T-Mobile USA is trying to change things, I can think of two things in the way:
-Americans are too stupid to save money~~ Everyone thinks short term savings, hence the persistence of contracts.
-Carrier incompatibility~~ Verizon and Sprint are CDMA. T-Mobile and AT&T run on (mostly) different 3G bands. Buy a phone for full retail and you're probably going to be stuck with one carrier anyway.
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The incompatibility is changing this year, at least with AT&T and T-Mobile. T-Mobile is currently refarming their spectrum to rollout a network on the 1900MHz PCS spectrum. This will be used for their HSPA/+ network, while the existing 1700MHz network will be used for LTE. This move makes their network inter-operable with AT&T devices.
Other than that, I agree with your points. I don't feel that T-Mobile is going to make contracts as we know them go away. I admire the bold move, but I doubt it will ripple the waters much. That being said, I'm hoping we can come together and brainstorm a bit to think of a way to benefit carriers and customers alike. Our market NEEDS to change.
Pentaband unlocked handsets for everybody! Then you can choose whatever retarded WCDMA bands you like!
A list of things I would do:
1) Bring back the unlimited data plans, but only for LTE. (bandwith limits 3g unlimited plans)
2) Have them start rolling out LTE v10 or LTE advaned right now.
3) Voice over LTE.
4) Unlimited voice and text added to a data plan like this:
Plan1) Unlimited voice and text+2gb of data for $
plan2) Unlimited voice and text+5gb of data for $$
plan3) Unlimited voice and text+10GB of data for $$$
plan4) Unlimited voice and text+Unlimited data for $$$$ (LTE only)
They are just ex and I hope the pricing is better than that, but I am trying to be real here.
And verizon needs to fix this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxJoGv3FLA&feature=player_embedded
4ktvs said:
A list of things I would do:
1) Bring back the unlimited data plans, but only for LTE. (bandwith limits 3g unlimited plans)
2) Have them start rolling out LTE v10 or LTE advaned right now.
3) Voice over LTE.
4) Unlimited voice and text added to a data plan like this:
Plan1) Unlimited voice and text+2gb of data for $
plan2) Unlimited voice and text+5gb of data for $$
plan3) Unlimited voice and text+10GB of data for $$$
plan4) Unlimited voice and text+Unlimited data for $$$$ (LTE only)
They are just ex and I hope the pricing is better than that, but I am trying to be real here.
And verizon needs to fix this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxJoGv3FLA&feature=player_embedded
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This isn't really a plan. It's more of a wish list. I was hoping that some of the people around here might actually have better ideas of how to do things than the carriers. This isn't a wish list thread. I intended it more as a brainstorming thread.
Well, before anything I want to happen will even be possible, we'd have to see real net neutrality laws in this country...
I would like to see wireless carriers charge for internet access the same way that most ISPs charge. You pay for speed and have unlimited data. Say I have an LTE device. I can pay $50 for unlimited data at 10 Mbps or $100 for 20 Mbps. This makes much more sense to me.
Also, carriers need to be dump pipes. That's just how it has to be. I know they all fear that and will do everything in their power to stop it but I think it's inevitable.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
cajunflavoredbob said:
This isn't really a plan. It's more of a wish list. I was hoping that some of the people around here might actually have better ideas of how to do things than the carriers. This isn't a wish list thread. I intended it more as a brainstorming thread.
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#2 was more of a wish, but the rest of it is not. Let me try to put it in a better way:
1) give 4G LTE users a higher cap/unlimited data, becuase there is more bandwith. They could charge a bit more for the new Data plans, but over all save $ for the buyers. In turn, this would likely help the push for LTE and kill 2g and 3g sooner, so that the bandwith can be used for 4G.
2) Voice over LTE( 3 will be why)
3) When Voice over LTE is done, then make voice/text/data all one plan, Like:
1) 2GB for $60. ( Voice and text would use data)
2) 5GB for $80.
3) 10GB for $100.
4) 20GB/unlimited for $120.
Any way I am not a CEO and I don't have the # for everything, so this "plan" of mine may not work/be good, but I tryed.
I have both AT&T and verizon unlimited data plans and don't like the low bar they have set of 2-5gb plans, but really most don't use more than about 5GB. Now I bet they would if they used a crap load of voice at 50mb per 60 min. ( If you used 900min per bill then you would use about 750mb or about bit less 1/2 of the 2GB plan and then a few e-mails, some text and bam over the limit.)
Mobile voice is surely not 50Mb for 60 minutes. That'd be close to 128kbps MP3 quality, which our phones certainly are not!
I read that on verizon, that voice would be about 45mb per hour. I don't know all the #, but think it may work. They may up the voice quality to make this work and I think it's one of there goals with voice over LTE.
4ktvs said:
#2 was more of a wish, but the rest of it is not. Let me try to put it in a better way:
1) give 4G LTE users a higher cap/unlimited data, becuase there is more bandwith. They could charge a bit more for the new Data plans, but over all save $ for the buyers. In turn, this would likely help the push for LTE and kill 2g and 3g sooner, so that the bandwith can be used for 4G.
2) Voice over LTE( 3 will be why)
3) When Voice over LTE is done, then make voice/text/data all one plan, Like:
1) 2GB for $60. ( Voice and text would use data)
2) 5GB for $80.
3) 10GB for $100.
4) 20GB/unlimited for $120.
Any way I am not a CEO and I don't have the # for everything, so this "plan" of mine may not work/be good, but I tryed.
I have both AT&T and verizon unlimited data plans and don't like the low bar they have set of 2-5gb plans, but really most don't use more than about 5GB. Now I bet they would if they used a crap load of voice at 50mb per 60 min. ( If you used 900min per bill then you would use about 750mb or about bit less 1/2 of the 2GB plan and then a few e-mails, some text and bam over the limit.)
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That's actually a much better way of saying it. It's not a bad idea. Going all data would seem to be the way to go for the future. That problem is going to be getting carriers to realize this and make adjustments accordingly. They keep saying that they don't have enough bandwidth to service everyone, but this plan makes exclusive use of data. It requires a nationwide "4G" footprint. Verizon is the closest to this right now. T-Mobile is close behind with its HSPA+ rollout. AT&T has a large HSPA+ footprint as well, but it's not any/much faster than their 3G in my testing. We won't even go into Sprint's "4G" services....
I think that Verizon and T-Mobile would be the biggest players in this. T-Mobile currently has the bandwidth and lower customer base to make this a reality. Verizon may still have quite a way to go, though. CDMA technology really needs to hurry up and die already.
In any case, this is any interesting plan, that would indeed be beneficial to both parties. The biggest hurdle is that their are still large parts of the country that do not have high speed wireless access. Within the next three years, I can see this being put into play.
EDIT: Also, GSM networks use the G.729 codec (as far as I recall) for voice calls which compress the call to roughly 6-8Kbps. This makes it about 3.6MB per hour on a normal, non VoIP GSM call. I have no idea what CDMA uses.
4ktvs said:
They are just ex and I hope the pricing is better than that, but I am trying to be real here.
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... you're not trying hard enough
Seriously though, that list is unrealistic. "I want more advanced tech and I want it released and working now." is not a useful answer for "How would you change the wireless market?"
As for me, I want American cell networks to be more compatible with other networks - right now AT&T and T-Mobile are the only carriers with anything close to this. Maybe there's hope for this with LTE developments, but I don't know.
If this happens, maybe cheaper postpaid plans will be available - I really like this - it's why I'm on T-Mobile. I wish AT&T would have discounted plans if you're not on contract - it's not like they need to subsidize a phone.
luftrofl said:
... you're not trying hard enough
Seriously though, that list is unrealistic. "I want more advanced tech and I want it released and working now." is not a useful answer for "How would you change the wireless market?"
As for me, I want American cell networks to be more compatible with other networks - right now AT&T and T-Mobile are the only carriers with anything close to this. Maybe there's hope for this with LTE developments, but I don't know.
If this happens, maybe cheaper postpaid plans will be available - I really like this - it's why I'm on T-Mobile. I wish AT&T would have discounted plans if you're not on contract - it's not like they need to subsidize a phone.
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You're answer is similar to the one you jest about. How would such a move benefit the carriers? If it is not beneficial to them, it will not happen. What would be their motivation to make their networks or devices interoperable? Customer loyalty, or doing it to make customers happy isn't a reason, unfortunately. Generally, there needs to be financial motivation to make changes to the market.
cajunflavoredbob said:
EDIT: Also, GSM networks use the G.729 codec (as far as I recall) for voice calls which compress the call to roughly 6-8Kbps. This makes it about 3.6MB per hour on a normal, non VoIP GSM call. I have no idea what CDMA uses.
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Thank you, I couldn't remember the exact bitrate but I knew it was really very low.
Adaptive Multi-Rate Speech (AMR) is the codec used by WCDMA voice and it tops out at 12kbps.
Now I know were I got 45mb/hour. I read it in the mobile broadband part of a verizon mag.
It list Voice call(VoIP) as 45MB/hour over 4G LTE.
There are other news media reporting the same story, it will be interesting to see if AT&T will stick to their guns and continue throttling us. I realize there have been other threads discussing this topic but I felt this story deserves it's own thread.
AT&T is offering to discuss a settlement with an iPhone user who won a small-claims case that alleged the company was slowing down his "unlimited" data service
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I see them back in court soon, (them being AT&T).
Now they will throttle at 3GB which effectively renders the unlimited plan null and void and puts everyone with "unlimited" on the 3GB plan!
Nice to see the wee guy win for a change!
Eff phone companies. Greedy whores.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
It is kinda bullsh*t that those of us with unlimited plans do get throttled (Though i have yet to breach my limit... don't often use that much data when i'm out and about)... but i think it's even worse that phone service providers charge extra for tethering. If you ask me, any data plan should come with SOME data allowance for tethering.... say.... if you have the 3GB data plan, maybe allow somewhere around 1-2GB of data that's ONLY for tethering alongside that 3GB mobile data allowance. So you'd have 3GB to use on the go if you're doing stuff on your phone, but have that little extra to use if you're doing something more bandwidth intensive that the phone itself isn't capable of, and you're not near a WiFi connection.
If you ask me... that would probably be the perfect way to please their customers. Hell... it'd make me a little happy. Although... then again... i don't really have any mobile devices BUT my phone... so possibly not.
I hate to be throttled and I've been throttled every month since it started, but really I don't think "unlimited data" guarantees the data has to be a certain minimum speed (real slow downs from network congestion or manufactured through throttling).
I can't quite remember where I read it, but somewhere I read that AT&T promised unlimited, not necessarily fast. (Not a viable excuse, just thought it was a funny thought ) I do wonder however how many people will try to follow with this and how 'out of hand' it may get. I wonder what it will push AT&T to do.
mysticdrew said:
I hate to be throttled and I've been throttled every month since it started, but really I don't think "unlimited data" guarantees the data has to be a certain minimum speed (real slow downs from network congestion or manufactured through throttling).
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.... Generally... when you hear "Unlimited"... you don't think "Well, it'll become slower than hell if i go this far". That'd be like going to an all you can eat buffet, and they tell you that you can have all you want for the first 15 minutes you're there... but after that you have to wait 10 minutes in between each plate. At this point, there are only really two differences between the 3GB plan and the "Unlimited" plan. Those being that the unlimited plan doesn't get charged for going over 3GB but supposedly goes so ungodly slow after being throttled that it's hardly worth using.... and that the 3GB plan may be charged extra per GB... but at least they can probably use it without being throttled.
mysticdrew said:
I hate to be throttled and I've been throttled every month since it started, but really I don't think "unlimited data" guarantees the data has to be a certain minimum speed (real slow downs from network congestion or manufactured through throttling).
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The slowdown... makes a phone difficult to use for anything but calls, texts and some emails... .
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I see the point you are trying to make but if it is throttled to the point that it makes using the Internet pointless then it's really no longer a Data Plan.
I would be interested in seeing what information he provided to make his case. I've had an unlimited plan for a few years and this month was the 1st time I got a txt saying I was over 3gb of data. I guess I got thorrtled, but my radio seems to keep me slow the way it is
Actually, once I got the txt, I was a Tad faster.
Yeah it BULL , at&t took my unlimited data plan away cuz i tethered three times to send one email, so i escalated to and asistant call center manager that put it back, at&t is a bunch of deucshe bags, they no how to treat there loyal customers dont they if i could do something about this i would it pisses me off enough too. I WILL SAY THIS ... I NOW AM GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AT&T COMPLETELY, I WILL RIP THEM OFF AND TREAT THEM AS THEY HAVE TREATED ME AND THE REST OF YOU. YOU WANNA CAP MY DATA AND MAKE IT INSIGNIFICANT TO HAVE IT AT&T? HUH? WELL WATCH AS YOU PAY FOR MY DATA PLAN EVERY MONTH, I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE OR ILL JUST GET AN LTE PHONE AND COMPLAIN AND NEVER DO A THING THAT I HAVE TALKED ABOUT IN THIS RIDICULOUS COMMENT> BUT IT SURE PISSES ME OFF
some links from that guy's research and other helpful info:
http://taporc.com/
http://www.getheroik.com/featured/h...aims-court-and-win-matthew-spaccarellis-docs/
also, quick question. for those of us who did the iPhone 2G workaround to get unlimited data... how would we go about showing contractual documentation of AT&T providing unlimited service?
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-6
Maybe stop calling it an unlimited plan. That might go a long way to helping their case.
yuck
Verizon Wireless (NYSE:VZ) plans to eliminate the $30 per month unlimited data plan that it still provides to 3G customers who were "grandfathered" into the plan because they were data customers prior to the company's switch to tiered data pricing last July. Speaking at the 40th J.P. Morgan Technology, Media and Telecom conference, Verizon Communications CFO Fran Shammo said that as these 3G unlimited data plan customers migrate to 4G LTE, they will have to purchase the company's data-share plan (which Verizon plans to launch in mid-summer) and move off the $30 per month unlimited data plan. "Everyone will be on data share," Shammo said.
Verizon's data share plan is scheduled to launch in mid-summer but no pricing details have been announced. Shammo said that he believes this new plan will make it easier for families and small businesses to connect multiple devices. The industry, Shammo said, has constrained the market around connected devices because people think they need an additional data plan. "If I can add as many devices as I want, that is more efficient from a family perspective and a small business perspective," he said.
However, Shammo said that with the launch of this new data share plan, the industry will have to change a key metric--average revenue per user. Shammo said that Verizon will move to a "revenue per account" metric that will more accurately measure the company's business.
When asked how Verizon will drive customers to this new data share plan, Shammo said that LTE will be the anchor for the new plan and that as customers upgrade from 3G to LTE, they will have to be on a data share plan, allowing the company to sunset its unlimited 3G data plan. "A lot of our 3G base is on unlimited," Shammo said. "When they migrate off 3G they will have to go to data share. That is beneficial to us."
Read more: Verizon will kill 'grandfathered' unlimited data plans, push users to data share - FierceWireless http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...are/2012-05-16
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May 17th update from Verizon
Yesterday, Verizon Wireless CMO Fran Shammo caused quite a ruckus when he stated that users on grandfathered unlimited data plans would eventually be moved over to the carrier's new data share plans that are due to arrive this summer. Verizon has now clarified exactly how this will happen, and it really only matters if plan to get a new subsidized device.
In a statement provided to The New York Times, Verizon clarified that unlimited plans will no longer be an option for customers that upgrade their device once the new data share plans are available. Prior to this, customers that had unlimited data plans were able to continue to use them even if they upgraded their devices.
The full statement is as follows:
"- Customers will not be automatically moved to new shared data plans. If a 3G or 4G smartphone customer is on an unlimited plan now and they do not want to change their plan, they will not have to do so.
- When we introduce our new shared data plans, Unlimited Data will no longer be available to customers when purchasing handsets at discounted pricing.
- Customers who purchase phones at full retail price and are on an unlimited smartphone data plan will be able to keep that plan.
- The same pricing and policies will be applied to all 3G and 4GLTE smartphones."
So that makes it pretty cut and dry. If you are a Verizon customer and you upgrade your smartphone after the new data share plans are released, you can kiss your unlimited data plan good bye. If you happen to still have an unlimited data plan and are eligible for an upgrade now, you might want to use it sooner rather than later.
source: Verizon Wireless,
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Oh yea I called it. They Are going to kill the unlimited data plan. I think they were testing throttling, but after that guy won vs AT&T. Verizon will just kill it. I just some how knew that this was going to happen, it was there plan.
Verizon if you do this like I KNOW you will, I will drop you. ( I just about did it any way, becuase of all the issue's I had with my razr.)
Any fan boy's want to call them the best thing ever NOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO KILL YOUR unlimited data plan.
4ktvs said:
Oh yea I called it. They Are going to kill the unlimited data plan. I think they were testing throttling, but after that guy won vs AT&T. Verizon will just kill it. I just some how knew that this was going to happen, it was there plan.
Verizon if you do this like I KNOW you will, I will drop you. ( I just about did it any way, becuase of all the issue's I had with my razr.)
Any fan boy's want to call them the best thing ever NOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO KILL YOUR unlimited data plan.
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Did you get your account rebuilt ? cause your problems are not phone related
I did get it fixed after I reported them to the BBB and FCC on the same day. The issue's I had with the first phone were phone related, but the 2nd one is fine. I really don't know what they did, but they fixed it. Speeds were I live are really starting to suck, but are not under 3mbs so it's not all that bad. AT&T's H+ has hung in there well even with 109GB of use one time.
Any way I jumped in knowing this would likely be the case by the time I renewed. My bud that work's for them has hinted to me they would do this. ( I was sure he was right this time, but only the top dogs can do this.)
I was hoping to drop my AT&T phone at some point, but it look's like the black hole has come back.
To all on the unlimited plan's good luck and for your sake and mine by the way I hope this will not pass.
So should I buy a lte phone before they make the change and still get unlimited data for another 2 years our until I upgrade that?
Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk
I would say if you need your unlimited plan, do it now/soon and you may be saved from the 2GB plan. I use the word MAY, becuase I have a fealing they may ax it for 4G users as well.
Only reason I went with verizon was for the gnexus and since sprint has it now when they do the switch I'll just go back to them *shudders* Horrible customer support
Don't think so I'm contracted and grandfathered in me and Verizon are gonna have a little talk
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA
Might have to look at Sprint, T-Mobile or AT&T on a media net plan. I pay $30 a month for unlimited now and rarely go over 2gigs because I use wifi so often, but as someone else mentioned on droidforums VZ keeps pushing new data-heavy apps like Netflix, touting how quickly you can download movies and music, etc. Google Music, Pandora, etc have excellent streaming, and HBO GO and other network apps are offering great shows and movies right on devices and 2GB/$30 a month is supposed to get it done? And f'ing $50 for 5GB?
Unlimited data was without question the main thing holding me to VZ, and while I can't deny that they have the best overall coverage as well AT&T is pretty good for voice and holy hell if every network but Verizon don't get the best phones. No HTC One on VZ most likely, never got the Galaxy SII in any variant, the Rezound was the only last run of HTCs of note that ever showed up, no decent Sonys. They're trying to shove Moto down our throats with increasing difficulty in unlocking the bootloaders and now this? Thanks Verizon, at least now my options are wide open.
Forgive me if my rant became incoherent at some point. My apologies to all.
Hopefully this does not apply to 4g phones. I will have to root a free 4g phone to replace my incredible 2
»»Rezound running BusinessICS 2.3 by Nils««
Mobile virtual network operator
Its a smaller carrier that rents network usage from bigger companies, often having plans at lower prices.
4ktvs said:
Oh yea I called it. They Are going to kill the unlimited data plan. I think they were testing throttling, but after that guy won vs AT&T. Verizon will just kill it. I just some how knew that this was going to happen, it was there plan.
Verizon if you do this like I KNOW you will, I will drop you. ( I just about did it any way, becuase of all the issue's I had with my razr.)
Any fan boy's want to call them the best thing ever NOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO KILL YOUR unlimited data plan.
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If that happens I'm switching to sprint they are going to have LTE in my area by the end if 2012
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA
I will switch back to AT&T if this happens
BUMP
http://www.change.org/petitions/verizon-wireless-cfo-fran-shammo-bring-back-the-unlimited-data-plan
If at&t does this I will drop them. Unlimited LTE data is why I stick with them. Even then $65 a month for the lowest talk plan, unlimited LTE data, and only 200 regular text messages is stiff. You eliminate that unlimited data and switch me to 3gb for $30 and there is no point continuing.
Fltmobileuser said:
http://www.change.org/petitions/verizon-wireless-cfo-fran-shammo-bring-back-the-unlimited-data-plan
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Signed thanks
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA
sitizenx said:
If at&t does this I will drop them. Unlimited LTE data is why I stick with them. Even then $65 a month for the lowest talk plan, unlimited LTE data, and only 200 regular text messages is stiff. You eliminate that unlimited data and switch me to 3gb for $30 and there is no point continuing.
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I spend 170 on my plan which is crazy and my moms side of the family spent 250 on 4 phones a month
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I've got 5 lines with them they take my unlimited Im gone
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Five lines four with smartphones on unlimited. My bill is 305...if my unlimited is taken, I will cancel them all. Go to Sprint, or to flip phones
but never Verizon again
»»Rezound running BusinessICS 2.3 by Nils««
The subject kinda says it all. I'm one of the lucky ones that got grandfathered in on big red's unlimited data plan.
My wife has been on at&t and she's tired of it. Her phone (Atrix 4G) is falling apart and she isn't thrilled with the phone offerings from at&t.
She loves the Razr M so I've been looking to get her added to my account. It would also save us about $30 per month for her not to be on at&t separately.
A few months ago it was still possible to add an individual line to an existing account, without affecting the primary account.
Now they force me to convert my primary line over to a share-all-your-money plan, which will mean I lose my unlimited data.
The thing is, I use, on average, about 2.5G of data. I'm not a heavy user and I know that. My wife isn't either so we could make due with 4GB.
So, I need some thoughts.
1) Keep my unlimited and sign my wife up for her own individual big red plan? (no savings per month, but happy wife)
2) Convert over to a shared data plan, and add line for wife. ($30/mo savings)
So, it comes down to this: is having unlimited data you don't really use worth the $30 in added cost?
One side of my brain says no, the other says yes.
I have been battling that same question. My answer was keep my unlimited data as long as I can. Why? With more and more things going towards the cloud my data usage is sure to go up in the future. So I'm thinking for then and not now. I don't think Verizon is doing this because the masses asked to share data as they would have us believe. Verizon seen data usage dramatically increasing in the future as well and is trying to get us to switch now when our usage is low. Now is when they can convince us we don't use much data.
Sent from my XT926
I was grand-fathered into unlimited data for a while, but then I started tracking my actual data usage and it was only about 1.5-2.0GB per month so I just switched over. The only time now where I would maybe want it back, is if I was using 4G has my home Internet connection and just using my phone as a mobile hotspot. I don't feel that would be reliable enough so I'm fine with it.
I have a feeling sooner or later Verizon will come up with some way to get those who are still on unlimited data and won't sign a new contract.
I would just get her a verizon pay as you go plan. Decent phones. Give your wife your phone and then make twelve monthly payments on yours?
I am almost certain if you keep calling back eventually you'll get someone to transfer you that can help. You can probably find a rep to finagle 29.99 4GB...
Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD
THe only reason to a share plan is to get subsidized phone.
I have resigned myself to keep unlimited until they kick me off. I'll buy my phone retail if I have to.
If they kick me off I'll switch to Sprint.
Keep unlimited at all costs.
We use a combined 11-13GB on three lines.
I kind of split the difference. I stayed on the old voice plan but was able to get a subsidized phone upgrade by losing my unlimited data. I instead got a 5GB data plan and dropped unlimited texting and switched completely over the Google Voice (which I had been meaning to do). So I pay the same as a 2GB share everything plan but with 400 minutes of voice (not a problem for me) and 5 GB of data... I only ever use up till 3 GB so I have been considering lowering to 3 or 4GB and just paying the $10/GB overage on months that I go over.
So there is some room for negotiations when you talk to the tele sales folks. That's good to know!
-- Android: It's a UNIX thing. You wouldn't understand.
Keep it no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT. Even if you don't use the unlimited, you could sell it to a friend (someone trustworthy) who has a crappy home internet connection, and turn a hefty profit. Just give them the activated SIM card and they can put it in a mobile hotspot and easily beat ADSL speeds for less money and better reliability.
Seriously, you guys are making a huge mistake by giving up one of the last reasonable cellular data plans in North America; nay, the entire world.
Don't do it. Keep your unlimited. Set up a new account for a new phone if you have to. Pay retail on new phones if you have to. Sell your activated SIM to someone you trust who'll use the data for a huge profit. Do anything EXCEPT willingly give in to The Man and the fascist data plan, oops I mean the shared data plan.
Sent from my Motorola RAZR Maxx HD with Tapatalk 4
I wish I never got rid of mine. I switched to the 2gb plan when they first offered it to save money because I used about a gig a month. Now I have the 15gb plan.. Damnit
Sent from my PACMAN MATRIX HD MAXX
Howard forums has people wanting to do assumption of liabilities. Now I've never heard of someone selling their unlimited plan but that's only because most people that go the aol route are in contract, need out, and find people that really need unlimited.
I would not be advising someone to use the sim solely for home Internet. Yes it's unlimited but some use hundreds of gigs of data. This isn't good for others. You could also get caught.
The only reason I'm keeping my unlimited plan is because we have 2 smartphones and 3 feature phones. Always transfer upgrades to the feature phones and transfer new phone back. Why waste upgrade when feature phones are super cheap retail?
Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD
jfriend33 said:
I would not be advising someone to use the sim solely for home Internet. Yes it's unlimited but some use hundreds of gigs of data. This isn't good for others. You could also get caught.
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Few things:
1. You can consistently use between 50 and 75 GB per month and not get in trouble. Believe it or not there are people who use more than that and haven't been threatened with disconnection. But yes, if you download at 100% line capacity 24/7 you will get disconnected. Even 50 GB can be downloaded in an extremely short time (about 1 to 2 days depending on your LTE signal), leaving a lot of room for other users on the network.
2. Verizon is contractually prohibited by the FCC, which allows them to operate the licensed 700 MHz spectrum, from discriminating against a user because of that user's choice of device, which means you can either tether a smartphone or use a mobile hotspot, or even a USB modem, and they can't do anything against you based solely on your choice of device or they risk losing their operating license.
3. All of Verizon's towers will throttle your LTE speed down to a lower level (faster than 3G, but way slower than your LTE is capable of) if they identify you as a heavy data user AND the tower is 100% utilized. So they minimize data hogs' impact on other users by slowing them down when the tower is busy. Light or Occasional data users will be able to use the tower at full LTE speeds. When the tower isn't busy, well, why do you care if unlimited users are just using up spare capacity? That doesn't hurt anyone at all, and doesn't cost Verizon a penny, since all their back haul and peering is unmetered, so if they aren't 100% utilizing it they are actually paying for capacity that isn't being used, which is a waste.
I'm lucky that the tower closest to me at home is ALWAYS extremely under-utilized. I get fantastic speeds and no throttling, ever, at home. In the city I have seen close to 3G speeds on the LTE network due to saturation, which I am fine with. I still benefit from LTE's improved reliability and ping compared to 3G, so even if it's not 20 Mbps, I'm happy to have what I'm allowed. Verizon keeps me on a pretty long leash.
And no, I don't make the network worse for everyone else by using 70GB on an underutilized tower. 70GB over a month is not even a drop in a bucket to Verizon's back end infrastructure. I know some FiOS users who run multiple terabytes per month.
Sent from my Motorola RAZR Maxx HD with Tapatalk 4
I love my unlimited data and I'm definitely gonna keep it. If i like a new phone that comes out, ill just pay full price for it. I canceled my internet and cable at home because I have access to both thru my phone. I average around 150gigs a month and haven't seen a decrease in speed.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using xda app-developers app
I seem to have struck a nerve with someone and that was not my intention. You are probably used to having countless people advocating for verizon and following their rules. I am not one of them.
I was not aware that such policies were in place to protect the consumers. This is good to hear. I was under the impression that 4G devices weren't throttled (for the most part), even when on 3g and that only 3g devices were being throttled after heavy use. Verizon has obviously updated their guidelines so I need to read up on it.
I could not limit my home internet consumption to only 50 gigs. What is an average use anyway? I'm generally under 200 gigs. I am in areas where 4G is new and isn't that fast (under 10mbps, 3g tops off at 0.75) or in a big city where it's over utilized. I pay $20 a month for 50 mbps cable internet and that is a luxury many do not have.
Let's face it. We are lucky to have this unlimited plan. There are no guarantees on how much longer it will last. Just keep it, please?
Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD
I switched from Sprint Unlimited to Verizon "share-all-of-your-money" (that's about right) plan. I had a real hard time letting go, but my wife and I have been on for 2 months now and it hasn't been a problem. We went with 4GB, and I initially thought it would be a problem, but we haven't even come close to 2GB yet. I mitigate that a lot by using WiFi as much as possible. Especially when I'm home, but also at work. I've also become a lot less bashful about asking for their WiFi password. What's the worst that could happen? They just say no. Many of them don't care though and don't give it a second thought. I also make the conscious decision to wait until I'm home to watch that YouTube video or what have you everyone one is clamoring about. I also used to tether my laptop to my phone and used that as my primary internet connection. Haven't needed to do that, so data consumption has gotten a lot less.
I haven't found it that difficult to live with a 4GB cap.
tech_head said:
THe only reason to a share plan is to get subsidized phone.
I have resigned myself to keep unlimited until they kick me off. I'll buy my phone retail if I have to.
If they kick me off I'll switch to Sprint.
Keep unlimited at all costs.
We use a combined 11-13GB on three lines.
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And what happens when Sprint cuts off unlimited? I agree with the idea of voting with your wallet but in this case, I feel there needs to be an exception. Given the financial standing of Sprint atm, I can't see why any one would risk jumping to them. Plus if enough people follow suit like you, it is bound to bog down Sprint's network until they start to cap data plans to.
Xplorer4x4 said:
And what happens when Sprint cuts off unlimited? I agree with the idea of voting with your wallet but in this case, I feel there needs to be an exception. Given the financial standing of Sprint atm, I can't see why any one would risk jumping to them. Plus if enough people follow suit like you, it is bound to bog down Sprint's network until they start to cap data plans to.
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They claim "unlimited forever".
What financial standing, they just got bought by SoftBank Mobile (Japanese).
They are building out their network and adding more LTE from their old iDEN spectrum, that and they bought Clearwire.
When Verizon makes me move from unlimited, I'll be jumping to Sprint.
tech_head said:
They claim "unlimited forever".
What financial standing, they just got bought by SoftBank Mobile (Japanese).
They are building out their network and adding more LTE from their old iDEN spectrum, that and they bought Clearwire.
When Verizon makes me move from unlimited, I'll be jumping to Sprint.
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There is an old saying. Talk is cheap. I seriously doubt they will retain unlimited forever. I would ask for a contract and read that thing over and over and over again as I would not be surprised to see some sort of clause in there that they have the right to terminate the unlimited data at any time because they get greedy like ATT and VZW.
Finance wise, you're right. I forgot about the buy outs. They are in a much better position financially and network wise, but they are still in the early roll out stages making it to early to judge just how well the network upgrade will be in the end. I also haven't heard how involved SoftBank has been so far. Have they only put up the money while still letting the former Sprint execs run the company for the most part?
My wife and I both gave up our unlimited data. She gave up hers to upgrade and I just gave mine up to save money. We have 3 smart phones sharing 4GB. I was using more than 10GB every month myself on unlimited. But a little prudence and control and we have no problem. In fact our month is over next week and we haven't even used 2GB between three phones.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2
I'd say to just do the math of what saves you more of the course of 2 yrs. If its cheaper in the long run by a significant amount to switch to the new plan and get a subsidized phone, and you can't foresee needing unlimited data, it just makes sense to switch. I personally am planning on keeping my unlimited plan while buying phones at full price due to highly fluctuating data usage.
Xplorer4x4 said:
There is an old saying. Talk is cheap. I seriously doubt they will retain unlimited forever. I would ask for a contract and read that thing over and over and over again as I would not be surprised to see some sort of clause in there that they have the right to terminate the unlimited data at any time because they get greedy like ATT and VZW.
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Oh, they've already added that to the contract, effective July 1st. If you no longer qualify for a plan or they no longer support a plan, they can switch you to a new one. (Paraphrased, but close to a direct quote)
So glad I jumped ship from Sprint in May.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
After doing extensive research and comparison....I don' t see how Project Fi is a better deal price wise.
I have not tried Google Fi....I just ordered a Pixel XL....but unless their plan prices lower to be more competitive....no thanks.
In-fact, I find Republic Wireless or MetroPCS to be a better deal if you are looking for a cheap NVMO.
I was gonna switch to a cheaper carrier, but then Tmobile is now offering 10gb pre-pay plan for $50. (vs the $40 3gb plan I was on).
Since I am directly with the network carrier, and not a NVMO like Fi, faster speeds and higher priority.
( Tested out Republic Wireless and MetroPCS in my area to compare, both are Tmobile NVMO's....and download speed is capped at around 25megs. On my Tmobile prepay sim, I get full speeds of 100+megs.) (ATT/Sprint NVMOS are capped at 8megs)
If Fi lowered their base plan to $10 or made it $5 per GB...then it would be far more competitive. Sure, they do the refund thing, but 10gb base would be $120 on Fi....i would have to only use up to 3GB on Fi to get a refund to make it $50 to match Tmobile 10gb price.
The only real advantage i can see with Fi is for low data users and those who needs the carrier switching ability in there area. Tmobile is far better in my area...and the 3rd carrier Fi uses isnt even anywhere near me. So, travel wise, I suppose Fi would also be a low cost option to VZW(which seems to be the most preferred for travel)
The only reason I'm on Fi is because data for tablets, etc. is free.
Well, it gets rolled into your plan's existing data usage.
But they don't charge you like $10/month for having a tablet or something.
Between that and the fact that I'm locked in, I'd already be back with AT&T which has the best overall coverage here in Texas.
Fi is good. But it's not GREAT.
Fi user here.
When Fi first came out it was a lot more competitive. Now that the other major carriers are offering unlimited data, unlimited streaming, etc. for ~$50-60 a month, it's hard to make an argument for Project Fi. I don't use a whole lot of data while on the go; I average about 2 GB a month, so Fi makes sense for me (a $45 phone bill is awesome) but this is not the case with most others. I also like the networking switching because T-Mobile is a bit weak where I work, while Sprint is somehow very strong (Sprint sucks pretty much every where else in my area). The data only SIMs are cool, the idea is cool, the speed is great, WiFi calling is stellar, network switching is neat and works relatively well, and if you don't use a whole lot of data, you can save a lot of money on your phone bill every month. If you're a person who likes to stream video and snapchat every aspect of their life while on the go, I'd say look elsewhere lol.
I used to be a T-Mobile customer. I switched to Project Fi when I got a Nexus 5X. My phone bill was substantially lower. Things have changed, however, and pricing among competitors has gotten a lot more... competitive. I find myself considering going back to T-Mobile from time to time, but it's not worth the hassle. Perhaps when I move to a new area / get a new job.
The main reason I'm still on Fi is because I travel overseas yearly and international data is considered part of your normal data pool. I came from T-Mobile who I wouldn't mind going back to if it wasn't for a bad experience with John Legere. Only other carrier I've considered is Verizon who have a terrible international data plan so thats not going to happen anytime soon.
FI User since i got my Pixel XL in 2016
Silenthillnight said:
The main reason I'm still on Fi is because I travel overseas yearly and international data is considered part of your normal data pool. I came from T-Mobile who I wouldn't mind going back to if it wasn't for a bad experience with John Legere. Only other carrier I've considered is Verizon who have a terrible international data plan so thats not going to happen anytime soon.
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I agree.
No Roaming.
Variety in carrier when traveling is a huge plus.
Low fees.
Hangouts works really well for ProjectFI users, still texting and making calls.
Even when i do have a month where i use 10gb it is still cheaper than the group plan i was supporting with ATT before.
And the peak is only that month.
Otherwise I am in the 65-95 per month range. Which was still half of my monthly with ATT.
If Verizon would take corporate discounts on the Unlimited plan I would switch but they dont so i wont.
I have been with Fi since the beginning. I travel quite a bit and has come in handy out of the US.
I was with AT&T before and they had great service everywhere I went here in the states. That said with my 2 phones I was spending 150ish a month for service.
With Project Fi my bills are around 70 a month. Very worth it for me.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
If you don't like the idea of Fi, you're wanting to use it for the way wrong reasons. Fi isn't for people who want cheap data. It's for people who want reliable service and not having to worry too much about dropped calls and just want to have phone service. Yes you can get cheap plans from other carriers but you're stuck to their towers and where they have service. With Fi you have 4 options. T, S, US and WiFi.
Fi for the win! ??
Jammol said:
If you don't like the idea of Fi, you're wanting to use it for the way wrong reasons. Fi isn't for people who want cheap data. It's for people who want reliable service and not having to worry too much about dropped calls and just want to have phone service. Yes you can get cheap plans from other carriers but you're stuck to their towers and where they have service. With Fi you have 4 options. T, S, US and WiFi.
Fi for the win! ??
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I agree I came from at&t and never looking back, I love that fi has around the clock live customer service
In my country, unlimited LTE data is only about 25USD. and I'm not a frequent flyer.
so it's really too expensive for me.
but if it can lower it's base price, I'm willing to try it.
sakumaxp said:
I agree I came from at&t and never looking back, I love that fi has around the clock live customer service
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We were trying to same some money when we switched from T-Mobile so Fi works great for my wife and I. We are thinking of Xfinity Mobile but they are stuck on Verizon. Plus they got that whole net neutrality thing going on. The deal is attractive as fudge though. If you're an Xfinity customer that has home internet, you'll only have to pay for the data you use. So for my wife and I, or Mobile bill will be $24 total. But... Verizon! ?
stone0504 said:
In my country, unlimited LTE data is only about 25USD. and I'm not a frequent flyer.
so it's really too expensive for me.
but if it can lower it's base price, I'm willing to try it.
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Click to collapse
If you need unlimited data I suggest sticking to your current service. I used to be one of those people that T-Mobile would cut off completely each month. Yeah, 200+GB most months. One month we are on Project Fi, and boy that was a total slap in my internet habits face. Turns out though, I actually only need to use 600mb of data a month because I'm always on WiFi at work, lol.
Still...Fi is a NVMO...so its gonna have multiple backend phone numbers (1 on each network) so more spam calls. (this is an issue with several people I know that use NVMOs)
.and the phone always searching and comparing multiple networks, so that would cause a bit more battery drain as the radios are more active than just locked to one band.
They need to catch up to the modern day times tough in price...to stay competitive. I read they are gonna offer a mid range price device compatible with Fi...so..they are doing...something.
speedingcheetah said:
Still...Fi is a NVMO...so its gonna have multiple backend phone numbers (1 on each network) so more spam calls. (this is an issue with several people I know that use NVMOs)
.and the phone always searching and comparing multiple networks, so that would cause a bit more battery drain as the radios are more active than just locked to one band.
They need to catch up to the modern day times tough in price...to stay competitive. I read they are gonna offer a mid range price device compatible with Fi...so..they are doing...something.
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Click to collapse
Yeah but my Pixel tells me when its a spam caller so its no big deal. Same amount as when i was on ATT really.
You can also anchor it on one carrier or another so it isnt switching constantly which is what I do only because of preference for Tmob coverage over Sprint in my area.
parakleet said:
Yeah but my Pixel tells me when its a spam caller so its no big deal. Same amount as when i was on ATT really.
You can also anchor it on one carrier or another so it isnt switching constantly which is what I do only because of preference for Tmob coverage over Sprint in my area.
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How do u set it to use only one carrier?
As someone that has looked at most MVNOs, I'd say some possible selling points of FI might be for someone that:
1) Uses enough talk and text to justify unlimited talk and text, since some users don't actually need unlimited
2) Wants to limit their phone bill by not using a lot of data, since limiting data usage generally results in a lower bill at FI
3) Wants better coverage than just Sprint or T-Mobile native service, since there are probably cheaper options with Sprint or T-Mobile MVNOs that lack roaming
With that sort of criteria, the main competitors are probably going to be Verizon or AT&T MVNOs, although there may be a few other options like Twigby (Sprint MVNO with voice roaming). $20 is about where Verizon and AT&T MVNOs start with unlimited talk and text, and customers might get a bit of data. For example Boom Mobile begins at $20 for Verizon service and includes 250 MB with the option to add data that lasts 90 days. Like any service provider that only offers one plan, FI probably just doesn't fit your interests, since either #2 & #3 don't seem to be major considerations in your comments. It doesn't fit my usage either, simply because I don't use enough voice service that I need to pay $20 each and every month (#1).
Note: Currently there's probably no actual reason to use Twigby, since Sprint postpaid is offering a year of service for nearly free. The Pixel is one of the phones in the offer, so many users here could probably port to Sprint postpaid for nearly free service. Personally my main reason for passing on the free unlimited service from Sprint offer is that their limits for data roaming are rather low, and Verizon or AT&T have far more data coverage.
alluringreality said:
As someone that has looked at most MVNOs, I'd say some possible selling points of FI might be for someone that:
1) Uses enough talk and text to justify unlimited talk and text, since some users don't actually need unlimited
2) Wants to limit their phone bill by not using a lot of data, since limiting data usage generally results in a lower bill at FI
3) Wants better coverage than just Sprint or T-Mobile native service, since there are probably cheaper options with Sprint or T-Mobile MVNOs that lack roaming
With that sort of criteria, the main competitors are probably going to be Verizon or AT&T MVNOs, although there may be a few other options like Twigby (Sprint MVNO with voice roaming). $20 is about where Verizon and AT&T MVNOs start with unlimited talk and text, and customers might get a bit of data. For example Boom Mobile begins at $20 for Verizon service and includes 250 MB with the option to add data that lasts 90 days. Like any service provider that only offers one plan, FI probably just doesn't fit your interests, since either #2 & #3 don't seem to be major considerations in your comments. It doesn't fit my usage either, simply because I don't use enough voice service that I need to pay $20 each and every month (#1).
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My mother uses Republic Wireless $10 unlimted talk/txt plan. No data. Great for her. U can get some data for $5 more. (discontinued 2.0 refund plans though)
Fi $20 off code: NV503E Now should be worth it
kolyan said:
Fi $20 off code: NV503E Now should be worth it
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lol...not like a quick Google search wont find more than 100 Fi referral codes.
A one time $20 credit....
I would like to know how much the "real cost" is of Fi....that is...how much they charge for taxes and fees etc.
On my Tmobile Prepay...only thing is state sales tax...so $40 plan is $43.91
Duplicate post...wtf?
speedingcheetah said:
How do u set it to use only one carrier?
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FiSwitch
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cheekydevs.fiswitch&hl=en
Root makes it easier but is not required.