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Anytime I try to play a video file that's 720p or bigger it the Video Player comes up with an error window saying "File cannot be displayed or played". I've tried playing the videos in Rock Player and they don't work there either (either jittery, don't play at all, or only display the first frame while the sound plays in the background).
For reference: all the files are in the mp4 container and are h264 or standard mpeg file type. I've even tried using TubeMate to download videos in 720p from YouTube and those don't work either. I've tried using an external MicroSD and same error.
All of these files work *perfectly* on my Galaxy Tab and any computer I try them on.
For reference, although it wouldn't make a difference, I rooted the device the second it came out of the box.
did a bit more research...found weird things.
Transcoding my videos to FFmpeg (still 720p) even up to around 2,000kbps (didn't try higher) bitrate...the videos worked fine. In h264 they didn't work at all. Currently transcoding a video a few times to test a theory...but I'll report back in a few minutes.
Ok even transcoding the videos smaller than the screen display size (960x540) doesn't make them work if they're in h264. I'm completely lost on this... I'd appreciate someone else trying this stuff out too and seeing if it's just my phone...
Tegra2 has no NEON support so neon version of Rockplayer will not work.
Also Tegra2 cannot decode high-profile H.264 video, which might be your case.
So can it run 720p mkv files then?
amtrakcn said:
Tegra2 has no NEON support so neon version of Rockplayer will not work.
Also Tegra2 cannot decode high-profile H.264 video, which might be your case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very strange...since Motorola listed H.264 under the codec list for the Atrix...
So what kind of limitations are there? I mean it plays *some* H.264 but not all...so where's the line? Pretty strange that it doesn't play the *MOST* used format in the world lol
metaldood said:
So can it run 720p mkv files then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't tried MKV but I've definitely narrowed it down to H.264. amtrak was definitely right, but trying to figure out what kind of limitations that entails.
You're going to want baseline codec, no b frames most likely.
Try handbrake - (http://www.handbrake.fr)
and put these settings in the "Advanced" tab commandline box
ref=5:bframes=0:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:analyse=all:cabac=0
Andrmgic said:
You're going to want baseline codec, no b frames most likely.
Try handbrake - (http://www.handbrake.fr)
and put these settings in the "Advanced" tab commandline box
ref=5:bframes=0:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:analyse=all:cabac=0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried it and seen it working? I'm encoding now using my normal H.264 profile just with 0 b-frames. Anyway to use the baseline codec without using the commandline? Don't want to have to do that everytime
metaldood said:
So can it run 720p mkv files then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MKV is a general "container", the actual video is conpressed in different ways.
I'm not really familiar with the difference between high-profile and baseline, but lacking such support is disappointing.
hotleadsingerguy said:
Have you tried it and seen it working? I'm encoding now using my normal H.264 profile just with 0 b-frames. Anyway to use the baseline codec without using the commandline? Don't want to have to do that everytime
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are the settings that worked on the Zune HD, a device with the original tegra chipset from nvidia.
Those settings would be transferred over to that device without being re-encoded by the software, so I figure they are pretty much guaranteed to be supported by the Tegra 2 unless nvidia removed some of the featureset.
You should only have to enter the settings once unless you start manually changing the profiles..
amtrakcn said:
MKV is a general "container", the actual video is conpressed in different ways.
I'm not really familiar with the difference between high-profile and baseline, but lacking such support is disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm trying a transcoding right now with the commandline settings from the post above...it definitely takes a *long* time to encode with these settings (at least 3x as long).
At this point it's just better to encode in FFmpeg. It encodes *very* quickly and the loss in quality is unsubstantial for same-size files.
hotleadsingerguy said:
Well I'm trying a transcoding right now with the commandline settings from the post above...it definitely takes a *long* time to encode with these settings (at least 3x as long).
At this point it's just better to encode in FFmpeg. It encodes *very* quickly and the loss in quality is unsubstantial for same-size files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't really think about the encode time.. I have an i7 at home.. so it only took about 20 minutes for the average hr long tv show..
Maybe if you've got a shorter clip to test it would work better.. I'd love to see the actual video specifications for the Tegra 2.. but nvidia hasn't seen fit to post the exact profile specifications.
This makes me think we may be out of luck for high profile h264 on tegra 2 platforms, though..
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/13/boxee-box-ditches-nvidias-tegra-2-for-intel-ce4100-pre-orders/ It was one of the reasons cited for boxee box ditching tegra 2..
hotleadsingerguy said:
Well I'm trying a transcoding right now with the commandline settings from the post above...it definitely takes a *long* time to encode with these settings (at least 3x as long).
At this point it's just better to encode in FFmpeg. It encodes *very* quickly and the loss in quality is unsubstantial for same-size files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aaaand doesn't work. I put the settings you used into the commandline and the file still doesn't work. Apparently the Atrix 4G just doesn't play well with H.264...
Andrmgic said:
I didn't really think about the encode time.. I have an i7 at home.. so it only took about 20 minutes for the average hr long tv show..
Maybe if you've got a shorter clip to test it would work better.. I'd love to see the actual video specifications for the Tegra 2.. but nvidia hasn't seen fit to post the exact profile specifications.
This makes me think we may be out of luck for high profile h264 on tegra 2 platforms, though..
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/13/boxee-box-ditches-nvidias-tegra-2-for-intel-ce4100-pre-orders/ It was one of the reasons cited for boxee box ditching tegra 2..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh I'm encoding on a Q9550 OC'd to 3.6Ghz. One of the best processors available for transcoding files aside from applications that use both the CPU and GPU in conjunction. It doesn't take *long* but for a 4minute 720p video (around 120Mb) it took almost 8 minutes. Encoding the same video with the normal H.264 profile takes about a minute and a half. Encoding it in FFmpeg took about 35 sec.
This make no sense at all a captivate will play L.3 720p MKV's all day and this phone chokes on lesser material? Something is wrong here, plus the whole excitement around a dual core tegra chip is that you will not have to re-encode anything just drop a file and play. In the brief time I with it today it was chocking on almost any 480p or higher video I threw at it. I also tried multiple video players from the market. These same videos even played fine on a inspire 4G except the L.3 720p that only play on the captivate.
After doing some more research apparently the tegra 2 for all its power sucks at High Profile H264. Which is almost every H264 file on my PC and on the internet. Since my captivate plays High L3.1 720p's I thought for sure this would.
Sigh I guess this isn't my dream phone...
Can someone upload a video to youtube showing the quality of 720p video running on Atrix???
alton987 said:
After doing some more research apparently the tegra 2 for all its power sucks at High Profile H264. Which is almost every H264 file on my PC and on the internet. Since my captivate plays High L3.1 720p's I thought for sure this would.
Sigh I guess this isn't my dream phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing...I encoded a few videos in other codecs and they worked great...even at 1080p and over 2,000kbps bitrate (basically what BluRay ends up converting down to for the most part). The processor wasn't even taxed at *ALL* (something like 18%). The problem with the high-profile H.264 is that the Atrix refuses to play it...not that it struggles with the actual video output.
The thought is that the tegra 2's gpu cannot hardware decode high profile H264..
What codecs did you use that worked well?
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
dudeimgeorge said:
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click the link in my sig and scroll down to Video section.
Use Handbrake. Simple and works great.
Set Video kbps to 2200
Set Audio to 160 kbps and samplerate to 48
On audio I also moved DRC to 4.0
Movies look great. Just make sure it is saving to mp4 and not m4v.
dudeimgeorge said:
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the people haven't even gotten their Xooms yet. It IS unfortunate that it doesn't come with 720p decoding build-in, but we know for a fact that Tegra2 can handle even 1080p.
So, like it or not, we'll just have to wait a bit. I'm sure they are working on proper harware-accelerated codecs. Even if Moto isn't, tons of private developers do.
We're early to the party, so grab a beer, sit down and wait for everyone to come =)
your my boy
dudeimgeorge said:
my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just converted a 1080 trailer of Ice Age 4 to an MP4 file of 1920x800 res, 5000Kbps H264 video, and it plays fine.
I use Total Video Converter & it works great..!!
lacesout said:
Use Handbrake. Simple and works great.
Set Video kbps to 2200
Set Audio to 160 kbps and samplerate to 48
On audio I also moved DRC to 4.0
Movies look great. Just make sure it is saving to mp4 and not m4v.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is 160 kbps for the audio going to sound that much better than 128? And is the DRC 4 going to be that different?
keitht said:
Click the link in my sig and scroll down to Video section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love you..
Ill have to give some fine tuning a chance with my videos. I just coverted a 720p copy of inception using handbrake. I used the apple preset as its listed to work with ipad so i figured it wouldnt be much difference. While the movie and audio do play as they are supposed to im not happy with the frame rate. Its by no means unwatchable. But it is not nearly as fluid as i would like and the irregularity in framerate isnt even consistent. It gets choppier(i use the term loosely) at different intervals almost like im watching a streaming video or playing on a computer whos resources are tapped out. its really annoying because i cant even really gauge the consistency of it becuase its an inconsistent problem.
Im gonna try the settings someone a few post up suggested and see if that works out better. But even if they do its really a shame as most brain dead people can use an ipad. But they expect your average consumer to be able to do all this just to play a frikkin video and still call this thing an ipad competitor?
dudeimgeorge said:
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one ever said that Tegra 2 can't play 720p. People have said that it can't play 720p high profile, which is pretty much all 720P that one doesn't encode themselves. Basically not all hd video is created equal. Others have said that it can play 720p but is just lacking some codecs.
verusevo said:
Im gonna try the settings someone a few post up suggested and see if that works out better. But even if they do its really a shame as most brain dead people can use an ipad. But they expect your average consumer to be able to do all this just to play a frikkin video and still call this thing an ipad competitor?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple wants all their customers to just buy stuff of iTunes, so if you do that, it's braindead, but if not, they're in the same boat as us. It only plays 720p baseline (I hear XMBC for it can do 720p high profile, but you have to jailbreak to install it) so it needs to be converted too. Handbreak with presets is what I've been doing for my iPhone 3G, 4, and now Dell Streak.
I've been researching this alot this weekend, and to summarize the issue with 720p/1020p video, the deal is with the various bitrates and profiles of h264 video in particular. NVIDIA Tegra 2 and Motorola only claim to support 720p and 1080p baseline profile. So, for conversion workarounds, there is a Handbrake preset - See Keitht's post. I don't consider this an acceptable solution of course. I keep hearing that Notion Ink Adam's can play 720p high profile after an update. It would be nice to have that player on the Xoom - follow this thread here for info on that. As for now, QQPlayer does the best for 720p high profile - my eyeball guess is that it's playing 10fps now... someone on the forums here did the 1.5ghz overclock and said it's "acceptable" but I don't feel like overclocking my xoom 50% myself
So, I think this will be addressed, eventually. There are WAY to many Tegra 2 devices coming out for someone NOT to invest the time into getting a good player for it - LG's slate, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Motorola Atrix, etc etc are all going to be Tegra 2 based.
The details in this thread definitely work, and work well. Yes it is going to take a while to convert things and yes that is a pain the ass to re-encode everything but the results ARE worth it.
THANKS
*SIGH* the trials and tribulations of the educated consumer.... why do they mock us so?!?
Great this definitely works. Just finished up a convert of Megamind 720p and it is smooth as silk.
Phylar said:
Apple wants all their customers to just buy stuff of iTunes, so if you do that, it's braindead, but if not, they're in the same boat as us. It only plays 720p baseline (I hear XMBC for it can do 720p high profile, but you have to jailbreak to install it) so it needs to be converted too. Handbreak with presets is what I've been doing for my iPhone 3G, 4, and now Dell Streak.
I've been researching this alot this weekend, and to summarize the issue with 720p/1020p video, the deal is with the various bitrates and profiles of h264 video in particular. NVIDIA Tegra 2 and Motorola only claim to support 720p and 1080p baseline profile. So, for conversion workarounds, there is a Handbrake preset - See Keitht's post. I don't consider this an acceptable solution of course. I keep hearing that Notion Ink Adam's can play 720p high profile after an update. It would be nice to have that player on the Xoom - follow this thread here for info on that. As for now, QQPlayer does the best for 720p high profile - my eyeball guess is that it's playing 10fps now... someone on the forums here did the 1.5ghz overclock and said it's "acceptable" but I don't feel like overclocking my xoom 50% myself
So, I think this will be addressed, eventually. There are WAY to many Tegra 2 devices coming out for someone NOT to invest the time into getting a good player for it - LG's slate, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Motorola Atrix, etc etc are all going to be Tegra 2 based.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny because I ordered a Notion Ink Adam before the Xoom came out and should ship next week. Since I got the Xoom, I do not want to open the box so I can sell it brand new unopened. Wish I could at least test the video.
So can anyone tell me does the "High Profile" mean like high compression because when I am doing re-encodes with the previous posted Handbrake settings I am seeing almost double the file output size of the original?
Nvious1 said:
So can anyone tell me does the "High Profile" mean like high compression because when I am doing re-encodes with the previous posted Handbrake settings I am seeing almost double the file output size of the original?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The profile setting indicates the quality of the video stream. There are lots of different profiles within the h.264/avc/mpeg-4 standards but the most common are (snaffled from wikipedia):
Baseline Profile (BP)
Primarily for low-cost applications that require additional data loss robustness, this profile is used in some videoconferencing and mobile applications. This profile includes all features that are supported in the Constrained Baseline Profile, plus three additional features that can be used for loss robustness (or for other purposes such as low-delay multi-point video stream compositing). The importance of this profile has faded somewhat since the definition of the Constrained Baseline Profile in 2009. All Constrained Baseline Profile bitstreams are also considered to be Baseline Profile bitstreams, as these two profiles share the same profile identifier code value.
Constrained Baseline Profile (CBP)
Primarily for low-cost applications, this profile is most typically used in videoconferencing and mobile applications. It corresponds to the subset of features that are in common between the Baseline, Main, and High Profiles described below.
Main Profile (MP)
This profile is used for standard-definition digital TV broadcasts that use the MPEG-4 format as defined in the DVB standard.[20] It is not, however, used for high-definition television broadcasts, as the importance of this profile faded when the High Profile was developed in 2004 for that application.
High Profile (HiP)
The primary profile for broadcast and disc storage applications, particularly for high-definition television applications (for example, this is the profile adopted by the Blu-ray Disc storage format and the DVB HDTV broadcast service).
You'll probably find a lot of movies available via "usual sources" are in high profile. On mobile devices these usually require some form of hardware acceleration to play due to the high bitrate. Not sure if there are many tablets that can play 1080p high profile natively. The Galaxy Tab is certainly one, but those devices with Tegra 2 chipsets do seem to have a hardware limitation with regards to playing high profile (and hence high bitrate) video. It'll be interesting to see how the Samsung 10.1 fares, as that happens to also have the Tegra 2 chipset. Samsung have always been good at hardware accelerating video, so it would be a backwards step for them to release a new device that can't play media that their previous device could.
paul so basically the xoom can only do 720 p baseline?
do apps like Rockplayer and Vplayer help? (without converting)
SS2006 said:
paul so basically the xoom can only do 720 p baseline?
do apps like Rockplayer and Vplayer help? (without converting)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure 720p baseline should be fine with any player. 1080p baseline should be fine. Probably main profile too. The problems arise with high profile HD material, which unfortunately is what a lot of stuff out there is encoded with. Then again, I guess most people aren't going to stuff HD movies on their tablets. The 4GB max file size on fat32 gets in the way as much as anything else .
As an aside. I've been using Plex server to transcode and stream movies (including bluray rips) from nas to tablet (running Plex player) with excellent results. But that's probably best left for another topic...
Ipad 2:
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
XOOM:
If you stick with H.264 Baseline Profile, you can achieve up to 1920x1080p at 30 fps at 20Mbps.
Baseline Profile means:
- No CABAC entropy coding.
- No B frames
- No 8x8 transforms (DCT)
- No Weighted Prediction
For 1280x720p at 30 fps, you can go up to 20Mbps and Motorola XOOM should still be able to handle it. More Realistically, depending on the content, you can get away with 4Mbps and up with varying degrees of quality. If you are tight on space, use 4Mbps. If you want something to look good you can use 10/12 Mbps. At some point though the higher the bitrate will only translate to decreasing amounts of quality improvement. In other words, 20Mbps will probably look as good as 15Mbps, but will just use up more space. Ultimately, there is really no one size fits all solution and it may take a little experimentation to find the settings that work best for the content you wish to view.
Additionally your device does not have a limitation on certain types of B frames (Main profile tool). So you can add in B frames and not affect performance that much. If you are using a encoding tool that uses B frames, such as QuickTime Pro, you should be able to achieve main profile encoding.
If you are using a lower resolution that 720p (such as 720x480 resolution size) in order to encode longer length video , you can get away with using more tools (High and Main profile tools). However, encoding become more complex and may require more experimentation to achieve acceptable results.
In general, if you are concern about performance, use baseline tools and possibly b-frames (with no weighted prediction). This will give you the best performance.
Also as side note, if you are upscaling from a DVD to 720p try to use the best upscaling algorithm provided and don't expect to get true 720p quality from upscaled DVD.
Looks like Xoom is a tad bit better in terms of supported Hardware video decode capabilities.
In terms of GPU - it seems that the Ipad 2 may have a bit of an edge with the new power VR 543 - though this is not official as there are no direct comparisons yet.
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
muyoso said:
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's that you say, the iPad can output 1080p? Well sort of. The iPad can mirror its 1024x768 display in 1080p but it still won't decode 1080p H.264 videos, and we don't know what type of TV you have, but we'd bet ours does a little bit better job of scaling than the magical iPad. All that being said, the iPad 2's new form factor will increase its desirability as a couch companion --not to mention we'll buy anything with magnets -- but an HD source device, not so much.
That's from engadget
http://hd.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-ipad-2-and-1080p-theres-nothing-to-see-here/
There are a lot of threads about xoom video limitations.
Am I the only person who just copied dvd rips from my iTunes folder straight to the xoom, and watch them with zero issues?
Maybe my handbrake settings arent top-notch, but the quality/size trade off worked fine on my old I pad, and work fine for the xoom. If I wanted full crazy HD, i'd watch from the blu-ray disk directly, on a TV that does it justice.
Am I crazy?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
It won't do it officially. Once it its jailbroken though it will have xbmc and will have ridiculous capabilities. For example the current ipad can play 720p high profile with xbmc now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Bauxite said:
Because the specs page for the iPad 2 lists SO many more formats.... stop trolling.
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Click to collapse
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page. For a comparison, here is the Notion Ink and the Xoom playing back that exact same clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWu6m33EP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s
muyoso said:
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Bauxite said:
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took a while for XBMC to be ported, 9 months or so. Dont know if they were working on it that entire time. The reason people act like that BTW is because the Tegra 2 is incapable of hardware decoding [email protected] or higher. Here is the guy who ported XBMC to the iPad and AppleTV and who was tasked with porting to Tegra 2 devices talking about it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=735285&postcount=41
Believe me, I wish that were not the case. Wants me some Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.1 action.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
iceytea said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Thanks for the read, I skimmed it and it pretty much sums up as higher compression without visual quality loss. I never put it together that the development of high profile was used for bandwidth savings though, interesting.
muyoso said:
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your posts, and yes, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! Once I began my due diligence today comparing the iPad 1, iPad 2, and the Xoom I thought to see if high profile h.264 was supported.
I was shocked to find out that the Tegra 2's hw (and Nvidia has confirmed this) does not support high profile h.264. BUT.... the iPad 1 does?! It's ridiculous quite frankly, and in my eyes, Tegra 2 is partial failure because of it.
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
In any event, I won't be buying a zoom. For the steeper price point, that is just insulting. I'm gonna try to find one of the remnant ipad 1s from Verizon that have been creeping around for ~$300, however unlikely at that price point it may be to find!
Kudos to your efforts and exposing this massive fault in the Xoom. I have NEVER been a fan of reconversion of the years, from divx in its earliest days through xvid (when apple ironically pushed 'reconversion' into mainstream)... glad that w/ this bad boy that won't be necessary as I'd never do it, too much hassle and insulting, imho.
Not being able to play 720p videos is the main reason I returned the xoom. If I am forced to convert videos I might as well do it for the ipad.
I am so tempted to sell my xoom because of this video playback issue...
I have a lot of bluray rips and I cant watch them on the xoom.
They were encoded using the Apple TV2 preset in handbrake, which I'm guessing is high profile
Oh wow, if this is that serious most of the Honeycomb tablets will be losing quite a lot of sells. I hope Samsung doesn't use the Tegra in their tabs. I'm fine with their Exynos, assuming it has the amazing codec support their Hummingbird does.
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would seem to make since, but I believe in Google...A phrase I never thought I would be saying ever lol.
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Digital Man said:
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no, I'll take your word for it. I guess some of us were hoping that it was just a honeycomb issue that would be fixed with an update.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Xoom can play baseline 1080p h.264. The Xoom cannot play 720p high profile h.264. I would venture to guess that 90% of all video that people have that they didn't videotape themselves is high profile h.264 with 9.99% of the remainder being main profile h.264.
hakujin said:
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPad 1 handles the Planet Earth clip perfectly, but do realize that it is a jailbroken iPad with XBMC installed. The iPad does not natively support high profile h.264 even though the hardware is capable, because Apple wants you to buy media through iTunes.
The iPad 2 SHOULD be capable of 1080p high profile, but we won't know for sure until it too is jailbroken and XBMC is installed/optimized.
Like the thread title says ive seen way too many posts bashing the playback quality so to those people watch this video on your xooms browser and you will be impressed and appreciate it more
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?deskto...e.com/watch?v=iFohN2-Hqhg&v=iFohN2-Hqhg&gl=US
I think most people are talking about videos that they load onto the device sometimes has choppy playback. We know YouTube plays great. I haven't loaded much onto my device yet but you do experience some slowdown or choppyness I some videos. Most play without a hitch for me though
Sent from my Xoom
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
I think the issue is the software people use to rip.
Granted I don't have my Xoom yet but I've read a lot of threads in preparation and I think the problem is the profile used to rip rather than the software. Apparently high profile 720p isn't working on the Xoom.
Hopefully it's a codec thing and fixable by either Moto adding the codecs or some third party app like CorePlayer.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
PaulG1488 said:
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
kcm117 said:
I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
1080p is a size not a measure of quality. I had a standard def camera that will shoot a better picture than my handheld HD cam and will shoot better than any phone or tablet camera. I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080. Probably the same folks that can tell the difference between a 160kbps MP3 file vs a 300kbps one
Real HD, that plays off your BluRay player, is 48 Mbit/s. No tablet made today can play that level of quality.
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
I loaded a Kenny vs. Spenny episode onto a store display via my Evo's bluetooth and it played fine. If the videos I converted for my Evo work on my Xoom, then that's fine with me, and it looks like they will. I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
DebianDog said:
There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This pretty much sums it up.
While I'm keeping my Xoom and have made peace with transcoding my videos I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting more from the video playback when I bought it.
MichaelWestin said:
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This nails the issue right on the head. Most 720p TV shows available on Usenet or via Bittorrent are encoded using video codec H264 "high" settings. From what I've read, the xoom struggles to play these files, which I would not have expected given its hardware specs. I'm still going to pick up a wifi-only model from Costco on Sunday, but I may jump to the Galaxy Tab if it is able to play "high" H264 files.
patass said:
I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DebianDog said:
I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
pekosROB said:
I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
khov07 said:
The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this one
sangreal06 said:
That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, totally forgot to mention that. 1280x800 definitely can't play full 1080p.
And yeah, I didn't factor in the "you sit way closer to a tablet than a TV factor," but I still would find it hard to believe that people could tell the difference of 720p vs 1080p on a 10.1" screen (even if you are 1-2 feet away, assuming the screen does support 1080p). Definitely not old people - my parents at first didn't see the difference between SD and HD. Now they can definitely tell and even laugh about how they couldn't distinguish the two at first.
Yes, they don't have the best eyesight at their age now. This is why I usually drive when we go somewhere.
sangreal06 said:
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the "problem" that I ripped all my movies and shows to fit my iPod classic screen (and the car stereo) at 640x480. I unless I want to watch a mini video I'll have to convert the movies anyway. I don't see what the big deal is. If you change your hardware you should expect to run into some kind of trouble. And honestly, our 720p HDTV in the kitchen has a brilliant picture and is hardly any different from the 1080p HDTVs that we have in other rooms.
The "big deal" is for warez peeps who can't play their warez HD videos. They know nothing about video encoding, and they don't want to know. But they do like to get on forums to whine about how they can't play their stolen goods. I've explained enough times that I feel like a broken record, but willful ignorance is a hard habit to break. But once more into the breach...
@muyoso
>Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher
There's nothing that said a H.264 video has to be encoded at level 4.1. For 720p @30fps, 3.1 is fine. Check the H.264 wiki you're so fond of quoting. L4.1 is a warez standard.
But if you want, I can post a high profile @L4.1 clip, and I'll bet it will play just fine. Will you then shut up and leave?
>original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264
Great, no need for you to buy anything else then.
>Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
BS. The Handbrake script I've posted, and people have used, used straight main profile (which allows B-frames).
>Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
What's ridiculous is expecting devices to support warez videos, all of which are encoded for the PC platform, and many of which are badly encoded.
The problem with your whining is that it's all predicated on warez, and that's not something you can offer as evidence when it's put-up time and you're asked for proof.
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
I asked you this twice before, and I'll ask it a third time: If you think the Teg2 is incapable of playing your warez vids, why are you still here?
e.mote said:
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
driver or not, high profile decoding of h264 is a know limitation of tegra2.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/...-a9s-coming-to-smartphonestablets-this-year/3
One of the stones we've thrown at NVIDIA is the lack of high profile H.264 decode support. Tegra 2 can decode main profile H.264 at up to 20Mbps, but throw any high profile 1080p content at the chip and it can't do it. This is a problem because a lot of video content out there today is high profile, high bitrate 1080p H.264.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys,
So they boast about the 1080p playback on the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, however I haven't had much luck with this. I tried putting on two different 720p video files on and both of them have sub-par playback.
One of them is an MP4 with h.264 and it plays okay on the default video (gallery) player but theres a bit of a stutter and doesn't play extremely well.
The other is an h.264 MKV and that doesn't even play audio in certain cases and the video doesn't play well at all under the default gallery application.
I tried three other media players - rock media player, Vplayer, and doubletwist and none of them play it any better. I find it sort of strange that it's having trouble handling these sorts of files. I can maybe understand the MKV file but the standard MP4 file is a little concerning
I find Vital Player performs better than the ones you have already mentioned. QQplayer is ok sometimes too and I've heard people talking about drobo player but I have not tried yet.
VitalPlayer played my mp4 a little better almost perfect with hardware decoding, however the mkv was still problematic :-/
Try:
MoboPlayer
and
MoboPlayer Codec for ARMV7VFP3
It bring in Tegra 2 Support not yet optimized but still pretty good.
Also if you have rooted your tab take your CPU off interactive (Default and horrible) and put it on Performance or OnDemand.
50-3 said:
Try:
MoboPlayer
and
MoboPlayer Codec for ARMV7VFP3
It bring in Tegra 2 Support not yet optimized but still pretty good.
Also if you have rooted your tab take your CPU off interactive (Default and horrible) and put it on Performance or OnDemand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a software flaw , it'tegra limitation to playback high profiles encoded files. Tegra allow hardware decoding of main profile Encode file only.
50-3 said:
Try:
MoboPlayer
and
MoboPlayer Codec for ARMV7VFP3
It bring in Tegra 2 Support not yet optimized but still pretty good.
Also if you have rooted your tab take your CPU off interactive (Default and horrible) and put it on Performance or OnDemand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I haven't tried MoboPlayer yet but I will give it a go tonight. In regards to the cpu being on interactive. What?! Really? I was trying to find a reason to root and that might be one is to put it on OnDemand.
aefelix said:
It's not a software flaw , it'tegra limitation to playback high profiles encoded files. Tegra allow hardware decoding of main profile Encode file only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly do you mean by this? I'm having trouble understanding your last statement.
kentoe said:
What exactly do you mean by this? I'm having trouble understanding your last statement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's saying that altering your CPU probably wont make much of a difference since it's the lack of GPU hardware decoding for high profile encoded videos that's likely causing any kind of stuttering. In short, it's not your CPU's fault or Honeycomb's fault, it's your GPU's fault.
RickBaller said:
I think he's saying that altering your CPU probably wont make much of a difference since it's the lack of GPU hardware decoding for high profile encoded videos that's likely causing any kind of stuttering. In short, it's not your CPU's fault or Honeycomb's fault, it's your GPU's fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I find it odd though that when selecting hardware in certain players it does play better. But when selecting software in some players it plays better than other players hardware. It just seems like some sort of issue that isn't really making much sense.
Yeah, moboplayer wasn't any better either :-/
It is Tegra limitation and it is a problem for ALL Tegra 2 based tablets.
Go to any forum Xoom, Transformer, Adam Ink... i is general issue.
If one wants to play movies (and do other "super advanced stuff") one should have buy a previus generation tablet like Galaxy Tab 7" or Archos, etc.
Some of us still hope that retail GT 10.1 will come in with Exynos CPU instead of Tegra. If not it, than quite a lot of phones will be more powerfull than Tegra 2 tablet computers.
+ none of new tabs is divix certified like some of the old ones were :-(
I wonder how will TouchPad perform in that matter?
If GT 10.1 is indeed Tegra 2 based I am in trouble.
Watching movies (in bed) is quite important to me.
I will either wait for 10" HTC or Amazon tablet (gossip goes it will have Kal-El inside) or I'll just get iPad 2 (seems to be more capable in that regard than new Android tablets).
galtom said:
It is Tegra limitation and it is a problem for ALL Tegra 2 based tablets.
Go to any forum Xoom, Transformer, Adam Ink... i is general issue.
If one wants to play movies (and do other "super advanced stuff") one should have buy a previus generation tablet like Galaxy Tab 7" or Archos, etc.
Some of us still hope that retail GT 10.1 will come in with Exynos CPU instead of Tegra. If not it, than quite a lot of phones will be more powerfull than Tegra 2 tablet computers.
+ none of new tabs is divix certified like some of the old ones were :-(
I wonder how will TouchPad perform in that matter?
If GT 10.1 is indeed Tegra 2 based I am in trouble.
Watching movies (in bed) is quite important to me.
I will either wait for 10" HTC or Amazon tablet (gossip goes it will have Kal-El inside) or I'll just get iPad 2 (seems to be more capable in that regard than new Android tablets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the ipad2 better at video playback?
If jailbroken - YES.
Its CPU (by Samsung) is more capable than Tegra 2 .
galtom said:
If jailbroken - YES.
Its CPU (by Samsung) is more capable than Tegra 2 .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the iPad2 and Asus Transformer which uses the Tegra 2. My iPad 2 is not jailbroken and it surpasses the Asus Transformer for video playback. My iPad2 plays High Profile 720p MP4 with the stock player, and with AVPlayerHD from the App Store, I can play High Profile 720p MKV and it will support embedded subtitles along with xvid/divx avi formats.
The Transformer chokes on anything High Profile. Sure you can use Moboplayer or Vital Player as they support subtitles, but they only support external subtitles and they still can't play High Profile.
Don't get me wrong here; I'm not an Apple fanboy at all. Just clearing up that iPad2 is the better video player period and does not need to be jailbroken to do so.
songmeesay said:
I have the iPad2 and Asus Transformer which uses the Tegra 2. My iPad 2 is not jailbroken and it surpasses the Asus Transformer for video playback. My iPad2 plays High Profile 720p MP4 with the stock player, and with AVPlayerHD from the App Store, I can play High Profile 720p MKV and it will support embedded along subtitles along with xvid/divx avi formats.
The Transformer chokes on anything High Profile. Sure you can use Moboplayer or Vital Player as they support subtitles, but they only support external subtitles and they still can't play High Profile.
Don't get me wrong here; I'm not an Apple fanboy at all. Just clearing up that iPad2 is the better video player period and does not need to be jailbroken to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the Ipad with youtube playback? It really bothers me that the tegra 2 tablets can't play videos in "hq" mode without horrible stuttering. I'm hoping 3.1 fixes this.
Ah, YouTube is a different story. The YouTube videos that the iPad can play are excellent... if they aren't Flash! However, there are browsers like Skyfire in the app market that plays flash but I haven't tried it yet. From reading reviews, 3.1 does seem to address those issues. All in all for YouTube, the Asus has the upperhand especially if you watch YouTube on the stock browser.
songmeesay said:
Ah, YouTube is a different story. The YouTube videos that the iPad can play are excellent... if they aren't Flash! However, there are browsers like Skyfire in the app market that plays flash but I haven't tried it yet. From reading reviews, 3.1 does seem to address those issues. All in all for YouTube, the Asus has the upperhand especially if you watch YouTube on the stock browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried watching youtube videos on the transformer with the youtube application and it was pretty bad. That was a while ago, is it better now?
Sorry for the derail.
I'm having no problems with the couple videos I'm watching now through the YouTube app. The only problem I get with YouTube is, of course, the HD playback in the browser but again I believe the Xoom owners have reported 3.1 fixes that.
Video playback capabilities of these Tegra Honeycomb tablets is a bit frustrating! My SGSII plays video and handles in-browser flash better (as in much better). I guess I will be connecting my phone to my television when I want to watch 1080p video, rather than my tablet...
songmeesay said:
From reading reviews, 3.1 does seem to address those issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3.1 indeed helped with streaming performance (like YT) but mkv High Profile is still "no go"
NZtechfreak said:
Video playback capabilities of these Tegra Honeycomb tablets is a bit frustrating! My SGSII plays video and handles in-browser flash better (as in much better). I guess I will be connecting my phone to my television when I want to watch 1080p video, rather than my tablet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True... but in that case... why would I get a tablet?
Or (that will be the case for a lot of ppl.) if you can only afford one of those?
New (fully capable) smartphone or tablet (that can only do some of the thing phone can but has bigger screen). Which one?
Not, to mention... what is the point in creating device, a tablet COMPUTER that is beaten in functionality and performance by phone.
HEY!! Samsung, instead crappy 10.1v (or 10.1 if it is with Tegra) make Samsung Galaxy S II in XL size - that is all most of us needs right now (+ Honeycomb) - and we're sorted .
galtom said:
HEY!! Samsung, instead crappy 10.1v (or 10.1 if it is with Tegra) make Samsung Galaxy S II in XL size - that is all most of us needs right now (+ Honeycomb) - and we're sorted .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but to be honest with all these reviews of the I/O versions and those boasting Tegra2, it seems the new official 10.1 will have it. I'm really back and forth about returning my Transformer to try a new 10.1 out. I mean I only plan to keep either one until the Tegra3 Kal-el tablets start rolling in (Asus and Amazon rumored to roll some out this year). Financially it'd be smarter to just stick with my Transformer, but I've always been about design and build and the Samsung sure looks like it has the Transformer beat. Trade off for build and form factor are the loss of the microSD expansion though, which means (according to the J&R pre-order pricing) I'd have to spend $599 for a 32GB Sammy vs. the $399 16GB Transformer+$35 16GB class 10 microSD card.