Related
Hi,
I am currently using a Samsung F480 and I really have to say the difference in the touch screen experience is very much noticeable compared to my HTC Wizard (I'd probably call it Apple-esque - even though I never actually used their phone), however at the very same time I also have to admit that I am really missing the possibilities Windows Mobile offers.
So when I first read about the Touch HD it seemed it would unify all those. Well, meanwhile I found out that the touch screen technology basically remained the same so I'd really be interested to hear how you would actually rate it? Does one still have to press/push the screen or does a simply touch do it as well?
Apart from the touch screen topic I am also a bit uncertain after reading threads like this and in particular vangrieg's posting. How would you rate the overall performance?
Basically what I would be looking for would be a compact phone with a good display, easily extensible (Windows Mobile) and a nice touch screen experience (Apple) ....
i have it for a week now and i am very satisfied with it. Not one program crashed and no reboot so far. Internet browsing is fast and really usable. For the first time ever i really like to surf the net while commuting on the subway. GPS with TomTom7 is great - i locks in seconds even when in downtown surrounded by skyscrapers.
regarding the touchscreen, i find that i have to press really hard to get a reaction. at first i even was reluctant to press so hard because i thought i would break it with the stylus. but now i am glad that it does not react to simple touching because i usually carry it in the pocket of my trousers and touch the display when handling it and it should not react to simple touching in my view - and it does not.
Thanks kkrammer, so you havent noticed respectively cant confirm the lag mentioned by donbronzi and jon- in the indicated thread. I am asking in particular because vangrieg stated the used Qualcomm processor shouldnt be the fastest.
As to the touch screen, this is certainly a subjective matter but personally I really like Samsung's way to respond even to a very very light touch without having to actually press it. So you would say one actually has to press it, a light touch doesnt do it?
Touch HD finger pressure
After owning a Touch Diamond, I feel that the screen is much more responsive. I dont have to press hard at all. I really like it so far. Yes it is a bit bigger and heavier, its still thin. All my programs are working great.
Thanks wfhowell, actually I just went to a store and expectedly they didnt have an HD yet, however there was the Diamond and considering my touch tests I slowly begin to understand the Apple fanboys. Coming from the Samsung F480 I was almost unable to use it. So how much would you say was the HD improved in this area?
Maybe someone who used Apple's, the F480 and the HD could outline where he/she would see the differences.
hi drzoid
i know what you mean about the screen but thats the difference between the two different screen technologies. if you want the ability to use a stylus the phone can only detect it if you push. iphones can measure the current through your finger with a lot less screen pressure.
that said i use rhe advanced configuration tool from the diamond forum to make the screen more sensitive. not as nice as iphone but close
Its the best phone till today... awesome tough still not perfect..
Unless you still think that a phone requires a QWERTY keyboard (I haven't missed on yet on this awesome phon) I'd run to my local dealer
Is it worth paying £500 to upgrade from the diamond? I'm not sure wether to go for it or not? Is the HD just a diamond with a bigger screen? Its a lot of money to pay just for that.
marcel808 said:
hi drzoid
i know what you mean about the screen but thats the difference between the two different screen technologies. if you want the ability to use a stylus the phone can only detect it if you push. iphones can measure the current through your finger with a lot less screen pressure.
that said i use rhe advanced configuration tool from the diamond forum to make the screen more sensitive. not as nice as iphone but close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Marcel, I know Apple's touch screen as well as - probably - the F480's measure via the skin but nonetheless I was "shocked" today when I saw what touching means in terms of the Diamond.
How "close" would you say is the sensitivity you mentioned?
Can someone who has experience with the Wizard and the HD tell if there is an actual difference in the sensitivity.
I'd love to get an HD - even if its price is currently almost prohibitive - but I am not sure whether I'd really like to go back.
mwatson said:
Is it worth paying £500 to upgrade from the diamond? I'm not sure wether to go for it or not? Is the HD just a diamond with a bigger screen? Its a lot of money to pay just for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not worth the upgrade in my opinion.
I found you have to push a fair bit harder with the stylus on the screen than with your finger. If you use your finger it responds to a very light touch in comparism and is very responsive.
Thanks, for a real-world example, how hard would one have to press to slide the tabbar on the home screen left and right. Would just placing the finger without actual pressure be enough?
hi drzoid
how sensitive is the screen on mine...not sure how best to answer.
On an iphone I hardly have to touch the screen. As soon as the skin touches, thats enough.
With the HD, if I press the screen, I have to push until the top of my finger squashes by 1mm. Does that makes sense??!
So try pushing on a hard surface so 1mm of your finger squashes...and thats an HD
marcel808 said:
On an iphone I hardly have to touch the screen. As soon as the skin touches, thats enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like with the F480.
marcel808 said:
With the HD, if I press the screen, I have to push until the top of my finger squashes by 1mm. Does that makes sense??!
So try pushing on a hard surface so 1mm of your finger squashes...and thats an HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you Marcel, perfect explanation, even though I am not sure whether this is really close if one has to push 1mm into the screen .
Somehow my excitement gets colder, unfortunately
F480 has a capacitive screen, just like the iPhone and G1, so the HD would be worse touchy-wise (resistive screen), but according to reviews HD's screen is quite close to iPhone's sensitivity. Anyway, you can't write with the stylus on those and you can on the HD
Insaneboy said:
F480 has a capacitive screen, just like the iPhone and G1, so the HD would be worse touchy-wise (resistive screen), but according to reviews HD's screen is quite close to iPhone's sensitivity. Anyway, you can't write with the stylus on those and you can on the HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, personally I dont really need a stylus, although the magnetic of the HD makes a precious impression. Anyhow Samsung's screen is what I would really define as touch screen. It would be interesting how close it is, but the 1mm Marcel mentioned doesnt sound too close .... I guess I will have to wait until I can see the HD live.
What a shame almost
For me, the ability to use stylus is a big plus. I like the option of being able to use product such as Netfront Browser. It is a lot easier to click on links and to type quickly on keyboards as compared to using finger. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against fingers. In fact, 99% of the time I use my device with just fingers. There are times when I feel that stylus is a lot easier. I consider this to be a plus over iPhone actually. I wish iPhone can support both, because then I need not zoom in before activating a link.
I would say it's about the same as using a touchpad on a laptop if using your finger, it's pretty good
mwatson said:
Is it worth paying £500 to upgrade from the diamond? I'm not sure wether to go for it or not? Is the HD just a diamond with a bigger screen? Its a lot of money to pay just for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both the diamond (business phone) and, recently, the HD (personal phone). The HD is a step change in a number of ways. The larger screen, in purely size terms, makes sense of the touchflo interface. Buttons are big, and useable, and I'm rarely (if ever) pulling out the stylus. Also the software itself is faster, more developed (losts of little changes - like answering a call uses a finger gesture, rather than pressing a button - which means you are much less likely to inadvertantly answer an incoming call in your pocket. a little thing, but one of a myriad of significant little changes). The stock ROM is blisteringly fast in comparison (my diamond is the t-mobile version, and a shocker in comparison). Given that they are roughly the same hardware it shows what the diamond may become capable of. The screen is spectacular. The sensitivity (though lacking multi-touch, no biggie for me) feels just right. The battery life literally takes my breath away. I've run it for two lumps of two days, and not yet got the battery below 50%. My diamond corpses after about 24 hours.
It's the best WM device I've had by a country mile, and I've had a few. I still like my diamond, though. It's little and I can look after it much better when I'm out for a riotous night on the town. The HD is big, and until I can get a silicone case for it, it's a dropped smashed phone waiting to happen (I hate having to remove a phone from a case to use it, it massively increases the chance of accidents).
Philio25 said:
I would say it's about the same as using a touchpad on a laptop if using your finger, it's pretty good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? If I judge it from my Acer Aspire I would then actually call it decent.
I really have to find a store where you can try it out .
eaglesteve said:
For me, the ability to use stylus is a big plus. I like the option of being able to use product such as Netfront Browser. It is a lot easier to click on links and to type quickly on keyboards as compared to using finger. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against fingers. In fact, 99% of the time I use my device with just fingers. There are times when I feel that stylus is a lot easier. I consider this to be a plus over iPhone actually. I wish iPhone can support both, because then I need not zoom in before activating a link.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I can talk only for the F480 which actually has Netfront and there you can click links without zooming, even if you have aim well sometimes.
Lets say I am not against a stylus but I am for the touch experience the F480 brings .
When the X1 was first announced, I was all over it. Then the Touch Pro with TF3D was announced, and I thought... the X1 is too 'raw' compared to the 'slick' Touch Pro, so Touch Pro for me!
Then I tried the FUZE (AT&T's Touch Pro) and I was disappointed in a few areas where I was not expecting to be disappointed (details below).
So, as it stands today, I am leaning back toward the X1 over the FUZE (TP). But it's a close call, and I'm still undecided. Here’s why:
1. Xperia hardware looks like a device that I would be proud to be paired with. In other words, just like Apple, Sony understands that a gadget can also be a fashion accessory. That’s a 2-fer in terms of value-add.
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.). Yikes, that’s not a marginal difference in price, is it? I’m not sure I can justify a 4x price difference for a phone that is about 1.5x as good. Or, can I? Well, it’s like buying clothing: I can spend $200 on a shirt or $10 on a shirt. They both cover my torso about as effectively, but which one do I want people to see me paired with? This goes back to the gadget-as-accessory frame.
6. Panels. I figured they would be a dead platform as soon as 09, but the new facebook panel could be a game-changer. It shows how Panels could be the equiv to iPhone apps! Will panels have market mojo? What incentives are Sony peddling for developers to get on board? What kind of penetration can panels have if limited to only 1 device? Very chicken/egg situation here, and kind of a risk for X1 owners if they are relying on panels to breathe life into WM6.1.
7. TouchFlo 3D on X1. If this really ends up being portable to the X1 with 100% functionality and no bugs, then the X1 ends up being the more flexible device of the two. But 100% compatibility seems to be a ways off still, for many good reasons. Conversely, it is highly unlikely for several reasons that the TP would ever get panels. Sure, they might be portable over to the TouchPro HD, but that’s not the TP/FUZE, is it?
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
10. Screen rotation. OK, big minus for X1 to have no G-sensor, but big plus for X1 for its apparent "instant switch" technology between landscape and portrait modes! I've seen some videos and it's quite impressive in Opera. One of the reasons why I 'dread' to go to my slide-out keyboard on my S710 is due to the lag. It's just painful to wait. If there were no "wait tax" on using the slide-out keyboard, I might go to it more readily.
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
So, this is where I am right now re: X1 v. FUZE. To be honest, I am kind of looking for excuses to cheap out and get the FUZE just so I'm not spending $700 on a friggin phone. But the thickness and weight are things that I'd have to adjust to.
Does anyone have any thoughts/comments/additions to this analysis?
Jon
[cross-posted on X1 and Raphael forums so I can get both viewpoints]
Ops wanted to post this somewhere else sorry :-(
xperia has same hardware + bigger screen but no tv out and accelerometer. these are unuseful for me, and touchflo3D from touchHD runs great on x1
we have xda, we don't have to choose a device for his software, and xperia is indeed an HTC device so ALL tweaks and programs are compatible. x1 looks better and seems to be less fragile, i purchased xperia and now I tweak it with all i need from others devices
I have the same problem. Still unsure what device to buy, but tend towards the X1. I've used both devices.
Keyboard:
X1 wins for me. Its just more clear and more intuitive to use with the 4 row layout. Yes, the keys are small, but I had absolutly no problem with hitting the right one. The feedback was okay and definitely not a problem. The sliding mechanism is better as well, as is the depth of the slide-out part. It just seems more stable, better to hold and easier to use. Of course, A CRTL button and a CAPSlock LED would have been nice.
Size and weight:
X1 wins big time. The X1 is a little thinner and much more lighter. It just feels better in the hand and in the pocket.
Display:
Possibly the biggest advantage over the touch pro. The display is sharp as hell and web browsing is a pleasure. The fast and almost instantaneous swith between landscape and normal view is just awesome.
And some minor things like battery and the nice optical Joystick when internet surfing ...
Some cons:
X1 display not leveled. But when I used the X1 the first time I was surprised that its not a problem at all. the display itself is a little smaller than the cutting in the cover. So I had no problem pushing the X-Button or Start-Button.
No G-Sensor. Its just sad SE didn't implement that. Would have been nice, but its not a no-go ...
Will order it next week I think, but will take a last look at the touch pro to be sure ...
10. Screen rotation. OK, big minus for X1 to have no G-sensor, but big plus for X1 for its apparent "instant switch" technology between landscape and portrait modes! I've seen some videos and it's quite impressive in Opera. One of the reasons why I 'dread' to go to my slide-out keyboard on my S710 is due to the lag. It's just painful to wait. If there were no "wait tax" on using the slide-out keyboard, I might go to it more readily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, after you loaded more softwares in your phone, it will get quite laggy especially in some softwares, dunno about others, but it does lag here
nap007 said:
well, after you loaded more softwares in your phone, it will get quite laggy especially in some softwares, dunno about others, but it does lag here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... so is the lag gap because one is running TF3D and one isn't? How bad does the lag get? And is it from installed apps, or running apps?
it will be running (or even run) apps which are causing it. However a soft reset once every few days should ensure it runs smoothly all the time.
yeah i have to find a decision, too
i think i will buy the x1, because the dimensions the depth is 1mm smaller then the touch pro. currently i use the wizard, its a really fat door stopper.
I am fortunate to actually own both these devices at the moment (thanks to an upgrade on my contract) so I can tell you what my findings are:
:: Hardware X1 problems ::
My battery cover refused to stay on. I was forced to get a small screwdriver and push the little metal tabs (near the SE logo) down a bit lower. This has been noted in other forums. The battery cover is a pain to get off if you don't have long fingernails.
The soft-reset button is under the said battery cover! I mean who decided that was a good idea??
The speaker is situated in a place that is often covered up by the palm of your hand (if you are right handed) and subsequently blocks the sound. The same can be said for the positioning of the camera lens, which frequently gets covered by fingers as you hold the phone in a natural camera position.
Notification LED's that are just too dim to see as they are located in between the keyboard and top panel. They have a rather confusing display of colours and none of them give you signal/bluetooth status for example.
There is a much documented report of a potential problem with case cracking.
No G-Sensor and the keyboard lacks the tactile feel and separate number keys of the Touch Pro.
But...
It has a fantastic screen response, very smooth. Fast landscape rotation on opening the keyboard, which glides out in a smooth curve. Dedicated hardware buttons and a cool optical sensor which works really well in web pages. GPS is really fast and accurate. A proper separate headphone socket.
:: Hardware TouchPro Problems ::
Unpredictable button presses
Lack of hardware buttons, especially a windows key and an OK key (also missing from the keyboard) No camera button, this is a serious omission.
Screen is not very scratch resistant (2 on mine caused by the useless case that is supplied) It's also very unresponsive, I find myself 'jabbing' the stylus at it sometimes to get it to acknowledge a response.
Poor battery life. Heavy/Bulky.
But...
has a beautiful VGA screen, the BEST keyboard I ever used on a mobile device, has a G-Sensor, a magnetic stylus which turns on the device on removal, touch sensitive D-Pad (Ok can be hit and miss sometimes but great for zooming) and has TV out.
:: Software X1 ::
The panels are disappointing. You can only set up 9 at a time, so if this really takes off you're going to have to sacrifice a few of your favourites. That's assuming that the panel idea is not going to turn out to be a flash in the pan. The ones supplied are a tad dull.
No YouTube application
Not all software works with the WVGA screen. Especially games. I found about 20 of my favourite apps weren't supported. Ok, this may change when developers bring out new releases but some may never work.
:: Software TouchPro ::
TouchFlo 3D looks sexy, but it is probably the biggest cause of crashes. I found myself constantly soft-resetting. Eventually after reading other users comments, I turned it off and a lot of problems disappeared.
----------------------------------------------------
In conclusion....
Obviously pros and cons with both. I think none of us will ever be satisfied with everything. What aggravates me is that HTC (who make both devices) don't seem to take all the good stuff from past models and make the perfect device! You get used to one feature only to find it missing the next time you upgrade.
So we have to see which feature is important to us and decide.
Here is the clincher....
The TouchPro / FUZE is probably the MOST UNRELIABLE PDA I have ever owned. I constantly have to reset and cope with weird behaviour on a daily (no hourly) basis. Very unstable.
The X1 is probably the most RELIABLE PDA I have ever owned!!!! and has coped with a mountain of stuff I have loaded on to it, and it continues to cope admirably! I don't have to worry about using it.
This is the most important feature for me and is why ultimately I am selling the TouchPro very shortly.
Hope this helps you decide.
Apprentice,
That was a fantastic comparison/review. Thank you so much for your insights. So, the X1 does not seem "bulky" even though it's only 1mm thinner?
not at all. its quite small in person. xperia all the way
Thank you apprentice for your review, and to JonDeutsch for starting this thread. I could have written your questions/opinions almost word for word. I am in the same place trying to decide which of these 2 phones to get.
I currently have a 8125 (Wizard) that I have flashed WM 6.1 w/M2D. When I had WM5 loaded it was slow and I was having all kinds of lockup & misc problems. Since flashing wm6.1 the phone seems to be on it's second life (faster and no lockups), so now I'm not is as much of a hurry to get into something else.
I went to the att store a few days ago to look at the Fuze. I walked out more confused about which to get. I was not impressed with the Fuze at all. To me, it seemed slow and sluggish for a new model with a cpu that is >2x faster than mine. Comparing it side by side with my 8125 the size was smaller and thinner, but the screen was physically smaller even though they are both supposed to be 2.8".
I was really looking forward to the Omnia also, but since I don't know if it will ever be coming to the US I've moved on to these two models. I also like the Touch HD, but not having 3G for the US won't pass the test either.
JonDeutsch said:
So, the X1 does not seem "bulky" even though it's only 1mm thinner?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly
Hi
I think all is said. I owned both devices and I selled my TP. Why?:
1) G-sensor is nice but I dont use it.
2) TV-out is nice but I only used it once to see a film in a hotel but hasnt full support with CorePlayer so the quality isnt very good.
3) Screen is much better in X1. Now you can really surf a web in your sofa.
4) GPS performance is much better in X1
5) Stability is much better in X1
..
So no doubt for me....
Dani
What led me to the X1 was a combination of the following:
- much longer standby time
- not much bigger than a default cell phone
- I like the X1's keyboard layout better (matter of taste...)
- standard headphone jack
- I prefer "rotate only when keyboard's slide out" to "Oops, I rotated the screen accidentally!". Though I admid the G-sensor would be fun for games. But then again, most games don't even support WVGA, not to mention a propietary G-sensor extension that makes the apps incompatible to everything but a couple of HTC devices...
- X1 is a bit faster in most tests. Though that's probably only a driver thing, the Touch HD is faster than X1 and Raphael with almost the same hardware and WVGA display (more pixels than Raphael).
- I thought the panels are an interesting idea. However, by now I don't give a dime to that. Too propietary, too slow, too limited (few available, max 9 at a time), clumpsy handling (press panel button, touch on screen, wait - every time you want to switch to another panel...), ...
- The WVGA screen - though that's been more of a developer decition, so I've got a test device for that. Otherwise, I would have preferred the more compatible and bigger (in size per pixel) VGA display.
- X1 looks better
- and it was a bit cheaper...
In hindsight, Panels, as mentioned, turned out as a flop for me, and having to use WVGA fix for some games is quite annoying. But otherwise, the additional screen estate is really great (browsing in landscape, lots of infos on the Today screen, more entries in lists, ...), the keyboard is way better than I expected after some reviews, and I like how it feels more like a "dump" cell phone in my pocket and regarding standby time.
The "optical joystick"s really nice in some apps (esp. for slow scrolling - for fast scrolling flicking is better imho), while sometimes a bit too sensible in others. I wish there was a better "(don't) use in that application" configuration then just the few fixed apps (iirc, PIE, contacts, and messaging). But if you don't like it at all, you can just deactivate it completely...
JonDeutsch said:
Apprentice,
That was a fantastic comparison/review. Thank you so much for your insights. So, the X1 does not seem "bulky" even though it's only 1mm thinner?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome!
I can't recommend the X1 enough to be honest.
As for the bulkiness issue... it may only be 1mm less in depth (which I didn't realise as it looks a lot more than that!) but it's the difference in width that makes it less bulky. Also long and slim is way easier in your pocket. Finally the corners are nicely rounded. It really handles and looks like a regular 'candy bar' type phone.
user experience X1
I'll provide you with my point of view. Since i'm someone who actualy uses this for it's business functionality, i'm not that interested in sound quality / video playback/ camera functionality/ games/ eyecandy. My previous phone was a TYTN/ HERMES (last 2 years), prior to that I owned a jam/ qtek100 (20 months).
NOT having owned a TP/FUZE I won't be able to comment on it's pros and cons but having an X1 i can add some points which I think have been exagerated or been overlooked imho. I did look at a TP in a shop but wasn't impressed by it's feel, too plasticky/synthetic. The X1 looks and feels like a premium lifestyle accesory whereas the TP would be a top of the line 'gadget'.
Keyboard
The keyboard is one of the main issues in the reviews. I'm not bothered by it it but it is not as good as my HTC TYTN keyboard. Having said that, it's not as awful to me as some reviews implied, it's pretty usable to me. If you have bigger hands/fingers the TP might be a better option.
G-sensor
Looked like a lot of fun, but it would probably annoy me more than it would improve my life:
I do a lot of excel / powepoint/ word stuff on my phone and sometimes i'd like to pass my phone over to someone else to give them a glance of the figures i'm working on. With a g-senor the screen would tilt with eacht flick of the wrist putting some columns or rows beyond the visible area. Not having had that on my previous phones I decided I wouldn't be missing it.
TF3D/panels
At first i discarded the panels, flashed a lite rom and loaded tf3d. I thought TF was a bit slow , buggy and did not add any value for me so i went back to the plain WM screen.
Last week i reinstalled the panels, including the spb one and i 'm beginning to appreciate it. especialy the spb that has shortcuts to programmes and settings so i don't need the startbutton that much anymore (one handed operation!!) Best thing: it has a 'soft reset' button so no more picking at the battery cover to reach the reset hole (bad decission that is to have a reset button out of reach on a windows device). The SE panel is my main panel because i can display the next 5 or 6 upcoming appointments on one screen. TF can only display 2 appointments on the start screen afaik.
Dpad (touchscreen)
As stated above I used tf3d for a while. The fingerprints on the screen drove me mad. the same kind of scrolling can be achieved with the d-pad after a few days of usage and growing accustomed to its usage and responsiveness. I realy like the dpad now (allthough it could have been a bit more higher or the borders surrounding it could be a tad lower). Having this experience i was confinced i don't want multitouch or a full surface screen.
Arrow keys
This was the reason I nearly didn't buy the X1; I Liked them and used them a lot on my TYTN but after practising on the old TYN with the joystick instead of the arrow buttons I decided I could live with it. So not really missing them since the dpad has replaced this functionality. I admit it requires some effort to get a bit used to putting your thumb on the dpad instead of the keyboard itself but it's easy to grow accustomed to (after 2 solid years with my previous phone and it's arrowkeys).
Screen
Biggest gain. I can finaly look at full webpages on my phone and don't need to revert to the mobile version of a webpage. Clear and sharp but i can appreciate the argument that you need a bigger screen (i.e. touc HD) for this kind of resolution. For me and my sharp eyes it works fine , someone with less sharp eyes can use the zoom function of Opera .
Dimensions
Roughly about the same size as a normal Nokia candybar business phone. Some people complain it's a bit too heavy but i like that. Makes it feel solid.
Conclusion
My main conclusion up till now: it has the wow factor (someone actually said 'Wow' in a bar when i pulled it out). Thank god i didn't go for a full touchscreen without hardware buttons: the fingerprints would drive me crazy.
I'm happy with my choice but would understand if there are just some little things that would convince someone to buy a TP; just a matter of priorities.
The X1 is also too expensive to reccommend to everyone. I decided that the premium look and feel was worth it combined with the top of the range specs and the software flexibility. if it was a SE manufactured phone with symbian I wouldn't have bought it, the micro sd card and mini usb charging and the ROM enhancements are the reason i prefer HTC devices.
I hope the above helps....
Best thing: it has a 'soft reset' button so no more picking at the battery cover to reach the reset hole
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are other tools for that as well. Additionally, you can simply press the power switch for a few seconds. If you phone isn't crashed completely, a message box whether you really want to switch off is shown (and if it hangs, you're not able to launch something from a panel either...). Turning it on immediately afterwards does the same as a soft reset.
(bad decission that is to have a reset button out of reach on a windows device).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not only for those. Sometimes I wished for a reset button on other cell phones, too. But yes, the location sucks. Sometimes it faster to temporarily remove the battery...
hi!
I was just wondering. Has anyone tried to use a pen on the HD mini. I know the HD mini comes without a pen, but I don't know for sure whether the screen only responds to the fingers (warmth) or whether it also responds to pointy things (pressure).
Using ones fingers to control a smartphone is alright, but I do like using a pen for the fidgety stuff or scribbling notes. I also use the pen that goes with my wacom tablet on my phone when I am working both at the same time.
So I am curious about this.
Can anyone tell me more about this?
Pen
HTC HD Mini has a capacitive display so you cannot use pen because it doesn't respond on a pressure caused by pen. Fingers only.
Hi,
It exists some capacitive pens, but be careful.
I purchased some cheaper pen on ebay for almost nothing; nevertheless they do not work well.
What I tried to do is to find a precise pen for playing to games where precision is needed like ScumVM.
But these cheaper pens react less well than the finger and are less precise. In brief the fingers are better!
Nevertheless I found a special HTC pen “ST C400”, they say that is a must. I ordered one but it cost about $40 with shipping, for only one pen! I hope for this price it will work!
Capacitive pens for the mini
The HTC STC400 from htc or on Ebay(about £16 in the UK) will work fine on it and seemingly also on most of the htc range.I use one on 3 different htc phones including the Mini.
The cheaper ones are very poor and feel just like an ordinary pencil rubber !! and drag so better to avoid them
Clive
You can also search for the capacitive pens from a taiwanese company called "DAGI". They are more affordable than the HTC STC400 and are really precise. From what I can tell, they use almost the same design as the HTC STC400.
Having to buy a expensive special pen that doesn't fit in the actual phone itself, doesn't strike me as progress, to be honest.
So how about scribbling and doodling with your fingertip instead of a pen?
Does that work?
I find it hard going on the pressure sensitive screen on my Touch. I have to use my nail for it to work, and I can't see what I am writing.
@ Windows: you´ll probably need some time to get used to the capacitive screen. As a previous HTC diamond user I also used my nails to type and to navigate through my phone. Nails don´t work on capacitive screens. You´ll have to put the flesh of your fingers on the screen. The problem for scribbling is that the line you draw is usually thinner than your finger. So you cannot really see what you are drawing. Since recent programms are usually fingerfriendly I didn´t encounter that many problems so far. Only programms that use a lot of drop down menus can be really tricky. I only use the pen for one programm. But even we that in mind, I personally wouldn´t go back to a resistance touch screen.
same as nivi,
I am not sure if it is really a resistive or capacitive debate, but new phones are really more reactive.
I broke my mini and I had to return to Diamond (resistive) but very slow in regard to mini, and I have lot of dificulties to readapt myself to the stylus and Diamond usage.
take a look at this :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/iphone-sausage-stylus-kor_n_459845.html
Hehehe
LOL ... a porc ou chicken ?
Many folks I communicate with keep assuming the Note's sPen is just another phone stylus ( or maybe a slightly tweeked one). In trying to explain the huge difference, and finding that none of the major reviews do it reasonably, I did some fact finding to help explain it (and why it is special) compared to a capacitive stylus. Thought other folks would like the details. Please reply with a more concise explanation if you have it. -steveblue
Briefly:
The Note has a Wacom dual digitizer, a first in a mainstream smartphone. That means is supports both capacitive multi-touch and active pen input from a precise EMR digital pen and a digitizer layer under the screen. Wacom is the world leader in pen based computer technologies and first developed this technology for Tablet PCs for very accurate handwriting level pen use that works with touch displays.
Details:
Almost all other phone styluses are just capacitive and therefore no more accurate than your finger. The Galaxy Note's active pen uses Wacom's EMR patented technology. EMR which stands for Electo-Magnetic Resonance, which requires no internal power to generate a signal on the pen-side that enables the pen coordinates on or above the screen to be detected (the display provides the power rather than the pen). The Note's screen surface incorporates a sensor board that detects the pen's movement. Weak energy is induced in the pen's resonant circuit by a magnetic field generated by the sensor board surface. The pen's resonant circuit then makes use of this energy to return a magnetic signal to the sensor board surface. The digitizer board under the screen detects information on the pen's coordinate position and angle, as well as on its general operating condition including speed and writing pressure, etc.
With EMR Technology, the sensor unit is installed behind the display screen. Because the sensor does not cover the front of the display, the quality and brightness of the displayed image are not compromised.
Wacom's sensors are high precision and high resolution, which together make it possible to detect even small hand-written letters. The sensor traces the movement of the human hand and reproduces such "human" elements as the feel, force and ambivalence of the pen tip.
The dual capacitive multi-touch and EMR active pen technology is called Wacom Feel It and was developed and honed over 2 years on major ( HP, ...) Tablet PCs. The Galaxy Note is the first use in a smart phone.
References ( and more info):
As a somewhat new user I can't put links in - message me for a full set of refs or google 'wacom emr' and 'wacom Feel It'. Note you'll get a llot of PR page but their will be technology details too.
-steveblue
dipaola.org
Your effort here deserves appreciation
Thanks for providing this useful information.
Thanks for very useful information,
Does display shield (Protect Cover) reduces the accuracy of S Pen...??
steveblue said:
Briefly:
The Note has a Wacom dual digitizer, a first in a mainstream smartphone. That means is supports both capacitive multi-touch and active pen input from a precise EMR digital pen and a digitizer layer under the screen. Wacom is the world leader in pen based computer technologies and first developed this technology for Tablet PCs for very accurate handwriting level pen use that works with touch displays.
-steveblue
dipaola.org
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are u sure S pen can be use on other capacitive screen? I try this S pen on my htc sensation & it did not function at all
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA App
The original statement does not mean you can use the sPen with other phones, it means on the Note there is a dual technology employed : 1) capacitive and 2) digital EMR. Sorry for the confusion.
-steveblue
Thanks steveblue. Nicely explained.
ranjan.alva said:
Does display shield (Protect Cover) reduces the accuracy of S Pen...??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also wanting to know this, from the OP description...seems material between the S-Pen and the screen would cause issues...? I've been noticing some accuracy problems since putting on the SGP screen protector...
The lots of wacom pens came in handy after all....
Even my good ol'Gateway pen is working on the Note...actually better than on the Win8...
Also, here you can read about Note's grandparents, 20 years ago ( take that Apple)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto
So from what i understand the digitizer layer or some other circuit has to be powered all the time to allow the spen to be powered at any time we decide to use it, but, won't that waste away battery during the time the spen is not in use?
If it does waste away battery while the pen is not used then it would be awesome if some dev could check if that circuit could be powered off when we dun need it and only activate it when we intend to use the spen.
Elusivo said:
So from what i understand the digitizer layer or some other circuit has to be powered all the time to allow the spen to be powered at any time we decide to use it, but, won't that waste away battery during the time the spen is not in use?
If it does waste away battery while the pen is not used then it would be awesome if some dev could check if that circuit could be powered off when we dun need it and only activate it when we intend to use the spen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
either way i do believe that the power for this field is very weak, otherwise (or it may be the case as well) samsungs engineers would have built some switch (soft- or hardware (sensor if pen is out)).
but generally high resonance surface fields (as it would be the one here) wont use much power anyway, so don't worry! it's more like a sensor array which detects EM "disturbances" created by the coil of the pen. pressing the buttons on the pen (eraser also possible and working on the note, but not with stock stylus) just alters this disturbance by shortening some wires of the coil and therefore generate a characteristic "fingerprint".
Thanks for this post.
This may sound really simple, but is there some method employed to stop ones hand from activating the screen when you write?
I really want this technology, particularly for the note-taking feature, but I am concerned that if I write 'normally' my hand will continuously activate the screen which will ultimately mean that I will have to hold the s-pen in a really uncomfortable fashion sort of like I was holding a chopstick to use it?
Thats friggin amazing, seriously I was really curious to find out how the spen actually worked, and its something out of a sci fi movie. for this tech the device should be way more expensive. spen rocks
NotSellingHats said:
Thanks for this post.
This may sound really simple, but is there some method employed to stop ones hand from activating the screen when you write?
I really want this technology, particularly for the note-taking feature, but I am concerned that if I write 'normally' my hand will continuously activate the screen which will ultimately mean that I will have to hold the s-pen in a really uncomfortable fashion sort of like I was holding a chopstick to use it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In S-memo settings there is an option to tell the screen only to recognise edits made with the s-pen.
Hope that helps.
NotSellingHats said:
Thanks for this post.
This may sound really simple, but is there some method employed to stop ones hand from activating the screen when you write?
I really want this technology, particularly for the note-taking feature, but I am concerned that if I write 'normally' my hand will continuously activate the screen which will ultimately mean that I will have to hold the s-pen in a really uncomfortable fashion sort of like I was holding a chopstick to use it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps for writing on the Note employ what's called "palm rejection", so writing with the S pen is surprisingly natural. No awkward hand position
In rain?
Would the EMR pen work in the rain? Capacitive screens generally don't work well in rain so this would be an advantage in the field.
Great article.
Thanks for the post! I have a few questions I would like to ask the experts on this subject:
1) How does the screen calibration work? Some people say there's an auto-calibration mechanism, but in my experience, even doing some "tricks" to calibrate it, I noticed the pen is centered only in a certain angle (not necessarily what people are used to when writing).
2) If we use a capacitive stylus on a regular tablet (say, the Galaxy Tab 2), even if it has a small head, is it correct to assume it will never be as precise as the S-Pen on the Galaxy Note series (including the tab)?
> 2) If we use a capacitive stylus on a regular tablet, even if it has a small head, is it correct to assume it will never be as precise as the S-Pen on the Galaxy Note series (including the tab)?<
I can help w/ Q2: A capacitive system has low resolution - which means it only picks up a circular area of say the size of the ball of your finger tip - no after market pen will allow it to be more precise in size just in placement ( center of circle). They are working on different "plus" pen solutions ( some to get the pressure sensitive going) but again none will give you precise hit and high pressure sensitivity - not able to make more precise the circular area under the pen. The Galaxy note has that too for fast, casual and gesture based touch, but it also has this secondary WAcom created input explained in my original post in this thread, where there is a FULL DIGITZER under the surface of the display - thats what give this spen its real edge (not just the pen but the surface). So yes you are correct to say an after market capacitive based pen will NEVER give you the precise control as the spen and Wacom made digitizer tech.
I like to say that the Note has 3 input modes, touch for casual, gestural and fast, spen for precise, creative and note taking, and then also dead accurate voice recognition for voice based commands and dictation. It is this last one that is under discussed ( in the hyped up SIRI world) - it is amazingly good - best on any phone. I use it constantly especially in my car with a card doc. I never type my emails and texts on my Note - I always speak them. Using Google Now/Google voice input and vlingo.
----------------
Here how I explain it on more Apple based sites like cNet:
If you are a power User - here is what I said about by Note 1 - same holds and more for the Note 2. An game changing phone.
There is something perfect about this phone for power users. Spend a few hours or a day with it and you will be hooked. If Apple came out with it, the world would be going crazy - so for now it is simply the users (without much press) who buy it and love it - hence > 20 million fans of it.
WHY?
It does fit in your pocket, you can do allot with one hand ( but it is a new paradigm so you want to be able to use two and the pen too at times). It is mainly a phone for power users (those who use all the of computer/web/app functionality). For them the display ( would fit under the definition as a Retina Display - but of course the only Retina Display with a simple Wacom tablet under is surface), the real estate, the pen and dead on voice recognition (better than Siri) - takes the frustration out of serious mobile device use - no more missing a link, having to constantly zoom up/down, unable to use a web app because it is too small to see - all this just works.
The wacom pen/digitizer is pixel accurate and pressure sensitive, again basically having a simple wacom tablet under the 5.3" display, so anything I do over a minute (touch is there and great for fast and casual,) I pull out the pen and kick butt - can hit at button/link with full accuracy (even a tiny tiny one), take notes, annotate anything ( maps, web pages, screen shots, pdfs, ...) make charts and drawings and paintings ( artists love it! -- wacom and photoshop on your phone) but I switch to dead accurate voice (due to the one of the fastest processor out and google / vlingo voice tools) - which means in one voice command I can open up any app, play any song, call , ... and dictation - I always use voice dictation on emails and messaging now (often while walking! on campus)- I did this whole cnet comment with my voice.
So argue about numbers and apple versus samsung all you want - buy any phone you want. By I am a 20 yr veteran of UI research ( Apple offered me leadership jobs twice, ran a mac based division of EA, and I have created UI systems for web companies - now as grad chair I run a major research university with 60 PhDs in interface design) and I am telling you this phone is a game changer - just try it with an open mind. It is not for everyone but if you are a power user especially who wants to get the web ( web apps, gmail, gcal, todo web apps) back on your mobile device with zero frustration - this is the phone. I personally have the international version with the faster processor, unlocked, ICS JB and device choices now and a dev community that rivals any out there ( I have better than stock Android JB). So I can find/get access to any pro tool I want. I run my servers from my phone now, read 100 page thesis pdfs where I fully annotate them now, using special gesture commands to automate things and in the middle of doing so , I say 'hey galaxy" play "shock the monkey"' and change the music while using my pixel accurate pen - it is heaven. Sorry for the long post but remember I am purposely walking on campus now ( it is raining here in Vancouver), voice inputting this all with only minor corrections made on the fly with my wacom pen - do that with your phone. OR try this one. ( Or save money and buy a used international Note 1)
Great explanation and well written. Excellent read thank you.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium HD app
This does make me wonder why other manufacturers of digitizers (like the one in the Flyer, Vaio Duo 11 and LG Vu) don't use this kind of tech? I've seen a Vu and a Note N7003 (The one with the LCD screen) under direct light and boy, did the Vu have HORRIBLE glare.
I've been thinking all along that Nexus 7 would have a capacitative touchscreen, like all modern quality tablets. Never did it cross my mind it could be the resistive, more crappy, kind found on many low budget Chinese tablets.
However the UBM TechInsights teardown threw off alarms on my head by showing two resistive screen controllers:
ELAN Microelectronics eKTF3624BWS – Controller for Resistive Touchscreen
ELAN Microelectronics eKTH1036BWS – Controller for the Resistive Touchscreen
Can someone already with the tablet confirm which kind it is and report back? I think a simple test is just trying to use the back of a regular pen.
If it works with the pen it's resistive, if not it's capacitative.
Thanks guys!
One thing Google DEFINITELY didn't and wouldn't skimp on is this.
Don't worry, it's a standard touch screen. Trust me, if it was resistive you'd know. The internet would be up n arms, and this tablet would NOT be successful.
Thanks elcapitaine, but after the MHL saga I'm hoping to be sure of this. The reviews have told us surprisingly very little about the the hardware side of things.
I was re-reading the Verge's review to see if they picked up anything and noticed this: "To my eyes, this is definitely a software problem, but I didn’t see similar issues on the Galaxy Nexus with Jelly Bean, so this will remain a question mark. Simply put, sometimes when you’re scrolling quickly (say, on the homescreen), the scroll will not follow your finger, and instead snap back the page to the one you were trying to move away from."
So users may be assuming that any inconsistent behaviour is down to software glitches, when in reality it's the touchscreen itself.
I'm really a bit worried about this.
i can absolutely guarantee you that it's capacitive.
if it was resistive then we would know from engadget, verge, ign, or one of any thousand blogs.
Can anyone now confirm this since it's actually out now? Saw some apple fanboy going on about how the N7 had a touch resistive screen on a blog at Engadget, but couldn't find much either way on the net. Can anyone do the pen test?
Because as much as I want the N7, a resistive touch screen would be sufficient to make suffer using this POS iPad 1 until the next go-around.
It's capacitive, this isn't 2002.
Sent from my Palm Pilot.
mmmdieselfumes said:
Can anyone now confirm this since it's actually out now? Saw some apple fanboy going on about how the N7 had a touch resistive screen on a blog at Engadget, but couldn't find much either way on the net. Can anyone do the pen test?
Because as much as I want the N7, a resistive touch screen would be sufficient to make suffer using this POS iPad 1 until the next go-around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lmfao I don't think you know how hard resistive screens are to use.. They're **** and have crap multi touch.
OF COURSE the N7 is capacative, it'd be worthy of the garbage bin if it wasn't. Even $100 Chinese tabs are capacative these days.
Mungulz said:
Lmfao I don't think you know how hard resistive screens are to use.. They're **** and have crap multi touch.
OF COURSE the N7 is capacative, it'd be worthy of the garbage bin if it wasn't. Even $100 Chinese tabs are capacative these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. I know exactly how much a pain in the ass touch resistive is, thus my disinclination to purchase the N7 IF it truly did have a touch resistive screen.
Though I admit that TR screens have come a long way since we all learned to hate them on the early palm devices. Most of our high-end drafting tables for our engineers at my company use TR screens, because there are some legitimate benefits to having a resistive screen over a capacative screen when you're drafting. But I definitely don't want one on a tablet. At least until palms new TR/TC hybrid screens start gaining traction. I think then we'll start to see some neat haptic screen techniques that weren't possible before.
But thanks for assuring me the screen is TC. Think I'll purchase my N7 now (though I'd kill for a 3G variant...).