Related
aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ya... and? it's called being throttled... 10gb in a month, really? how much porn are you downloading lol. anyway, they andother carriers will do this to free up bandwidth for moderate users ....and its still unlimited because you're not being charged any "overage"
10 gigs is a lot of data, especially on a cell phone. I 'm on the web all the time and don't even come close. And I use Slacker a lot as well. THe only thing I don't really do is tether so I guess that could boost your data but still 10 gigs is a lot.
My Comcast has 250gb limit, i don't agree with it but they all do it.
Find yourself a hotspot and enable wifi. Half the time it's faster than 3G anyway.
what are you saying? it's perfect! Other companies let you go past their puny 2-5 GB/month data limit and then charge you huge overages or cut you off completely from data. With T-Mo you don't get charged extra, 10GB is a lot for a month, and when you go over you can still use data, albeit slowly, so you still receive those tweets.
Best company ever, man
I have seen somebody use over 20gb a month on there iPhone and was not sent a message from AT&T or had to pay any overage charger or be forced to have a reduced bandwidth. It's truly unlimited Internet.
Throttling is a common practice with most providers. Tethering though, believe it or not, is actually against your T-mobile terms of use...and if you reached 10gb's of data without tethering you need to go outside lol. So...if you were tethering, you shouldn't be complaining that they put a cap on internet to prevent you from overusing a system illicitly. They could just claim breach of your contract lol...though I've never seen it done before...
when did tethering become"against terms of use "I remember back in the day calling up customer care and they walked me through the tethering process. I had the 3.99tzones hack and was happily using edge to stream internet radio as tmo was and is stil lmy only isp. nowadays netflix streams fine over 3g on the 9.99 web2go...I don't think I've ever been throttled haha! (sounds funny) I don't kno what my data usage is though...
Geez...I tether everyday, and its myself and 2 other individuals who use my connection. Plus normal web browsing and pandora on my HD2 on almost a daily basis and I have never come close to the 10Gig limit.
...the fact is, even thought they throttle you after 10gigs (which is an absurd amount anyhow) you can still access the web from your phone right? So since you still have an active connection that means its still unlimited...they are just not allowing you to continue to download torrents or use your phone as your home ISP replacement for the rest of the month.
Tethering is not against Tmobiles TOS. You can find step by step guides on their forums on how to tether with wimo and blackberry. The only one it doesnt support but isnt against your TOS is android because you have to root your phone which voids the warranty.
Tethering IS against you TOS
Tethering any 3G phone is explicitly against the terms and conditions of you service agreement with T-Mobile. Tethering was never explicitly allowed by the terms and conditions, but it was not actively monitored by T-mobile. Since edge speeds and low data usage were not likely to cause network issues, T-mobile unofficially supported it. This is the same as the way you can call T-mobile tech support for assistance with an unlocked iPhone.
3G tethering is explicitly against the TOS and is actively being shut down, I have had a hand full of customers come in to the store when their tethering was blocked since it began a couple of months back.
Those of you who think that tethering is permitted, had better read your terms of service again...your sorely mistaken:
Here is the current TOS: http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/P...&PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true
Section 29: Subsection 1: (near the bottom of the page)
1. Permissible and Prohibited Uses
Your Data Plan is intended for Web browsing, messaging, and similar activities on your device and not on any other equipment. Unless explicitly permitted by your Data Plan, other uses, including for example, tethering your device to a personal computer or other hardware, are not permitted.
Subsection 2 covers throttling and the fact that if you do tether they can suspend or cancel your account.
So since when has it been against TOS? Since as long as I can remember LOL. And if it wasn't back in the day...it is now.
The TOS should really be stickied so that people don't think it's okay.
Are you seriously complaining about getting throttled after using over 10gb of data??? Grow the eff up and stop using your cellphone as your internet connection to you computer. Tethering was meant for mobile users to have access to the internet while they were away from available WAPs. It wasn't meant for some 40 year old virgin to download porn all day. ******.
[highlight]Mod Edit: No Need for Insulting. Play Nice[/highlight]
I have to totally agree with you...LOLOLOLOL
+1 there... LOL
While I was at the Tmo store getting a new sim card I happened to ask the guy helping if tethering was allowed. He said it was as long as the phone supported it and you didn't go over the 10gb limit. My wife has been tethering her winmo phone for 2 years now and they have never said anything to us. although she's not downloading porn all day she does use it when she goes over to a friend's house that doesn't have internet. That being said, I don't doubt that it is against TOS but I doubt they will say anything as long as your not over stepping your boundaries.
2. Protective Measures
To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth; if your total usage exceeds 5GB (amount is subject to change; please periodically check T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. We may also suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, Plan, or service if you use your Data Plan in a manner that interferes with other customers’ service, our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or that otherwise may degrade service quality for other customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically it is up to TMOBILE to take (or not to take) actions if you exceed your allowed usage. Kinda went out of the subject matter a lil bit. I remember the title of this page was - !!!Beware!!!!!T-mobile Data Unlimited plan has Limit
I have been tethering using T-Mobile internet options for more than 7 years. Since I am considerate, I don't worry anything negative.
I don't mind people tethering whatsoever. What I mind is when people come onto a site dedicated to helping each other out; complaining that they are getting throttled because they are too inconsiderate to realize they are screwing other people over.
Free T-Mobile msg: Your usage has reached the data threshold for your rate plan this month. Your speed has been reduced for the rest of this billing cycle.
Anyone else hit this "threshold" ?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
How can there be a threshold when it's advertised as unlimited service? You might consider a complaint to your states AG. Especially with elections coming up.
wow! you must tethering and d/l lots of porn or something. They will limit you after 10gbs. I think. With heavy usage I rarely go over 1gb.
thunderstruck! said:
How can there be a threshold when it's advertised as unlimited service? You might consider a complaint to your states AG. Especially with elections coming up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From a T-Mobile store manager, please... read the fine print.
This is directly from T-Mobile.com
Android Unlimited Web*
Includes:
* Unlimited Web access
* Unlimited personal e-mail
*To provide the best network experience for all of our customers we may temporarily reduce data throughput for a small fraction of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth. Your data session, plan, or service may be suspended, terminated, or restricted for significant roaming or if you use your service in a way that interferes with our network or ability to provide quality service to other users. Some devices require specific data plans; if you do not have the right plan for your device, you may not be able to use data services. 3G coverage is available only in certain markets and on certain devices. Taxes, fees, and additional charges may apply. Domestic use only. See your data plan terms and T-Mobile's Terms and Conditions on T-Mobile.com.
You gotta love marketing and the fine print. Still 10 gb is a lot, and if you go over you get crippled service instead of fees.
thunderstruck! said:
How can there be a threshold when it's advertised as unlimited service? You might consider a complaint to your states AG. Especially with elections coming up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is unlimited service, they're not shutting his data down they are just slowing it down. No where does it say about unlimited 3G service. The only people who are reaching this are the ones tethering and even then they are most likely downloading music or movies.
Yea, I know. The thing is, it's either unlimited or it's not. They are saying both. You should not have to read any fine print, instead of saying unlimited in big letters it needs to say Android 10GB monthly Web. F*** the fine print.
There's actually a lawsuit going on about this: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/08/tmobile_suit.html
Unlimited isn't really unlimited. They just throttle your internet and make it run slower. How the hell do you pass 10GB of bandwidth? You must be tethering or downloading A LOT on it
It's marketing. How can you advertise a 10gb cap? You can't, some of us will understand the concept and will appreciate the forwardness of the carrier, but an average Joe will just get confused and will start asking questions which are not.needed as most average data users on Tmobile will not hit that cap. I am streaming Pandora at the gym 3 hours a day, sometimes tether, browse the web on 3g, I have etc to even get close to the cap.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
thunderstruck! said:
Yea, I know. The thing is, it's either unlimited or it's not. They are saying both. You should not have to read any fine print, instead of saying unlimited in big letters it needs to say Android 10GB monthly Web. F*** the fine print.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you charged overages for using too much data? No. Can you not use your data if you go over 10GB? No. Its unlimited data, T-mobile puts that clause in there to cover themselves so if someone is abusing the service they can restrict them if need be.
rjwisniewski said:
From a T-Mobile store manager, please... read the fine print.
This is directly from T-Mobile.com
Android Unlimited Web*
Includes:
* Unlimited Web access
* Unlimited personal e-mail
*To provide the best network experience for all of our customers we may temporarily reduce data throughput for a small fraction of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth. Your data session, plan, or service may be suspended, terminated, or restricted for significant roaming or if you use your service in a way that interferes with our network or ability to provide quality service to other users. Some devices require specific data plans; if you do not have the right plan for your device, you may not be able to use data services. 3G coverage is available only in certain markets and on certain devices. Taxes, fees, and additional charges may apply. Domestic use only. See your data plan terms and T-Mobile's Terms and Conditions on T-Mobile.com.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, store manager, don't get so cocky, and try to throw contract statements in peoples face. I come from a family of attorneys, and just because something is stated in contract doesn't mean the consumer is wrong.
If a cell phone company runs advertisements on tv talking about their unlimited fast 3g, runs print ads talking about their unlimted fast 3g, has store reps advertise unlimited 3g to walk in customers, etc ... you get my point, the average person expects unlimited 3G, not edge. The law in all states specifically says there should be no ambiguity and ambiguity is based upon understanding from a resonable person. I'm resonable, and so are thousands of others who assume when they see advetisements for unlimited 3G, that means unlimited 3g!
I'm happy you have an understanding, but you also work for the company.
All it takes is 1 person, 1 person to fight t-mobile, start a class action law suit, and your pretty little statements are useless.
Now, going back to the person who got the t-mobile message. ARE YOU TETHERING? IF SO, YOU DESERVE TO BE KICKED OFF THE NETWORK FOR LIFE.
Well, he still has data access so I guess that makes it unlimited. I don't see anything unfair about it to be honest. I don't want my data access borked just because a bunch of kids are using their phones to download music and movies from the pirate bay all night.
When you see * it means there's some sort of caveat, and it pays to read to read the fine print.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
r6kid said:
Free T-Mobile msg: Your usage has reached the data threshold for your rate plan this month. Your speed has been reduced for the rest of this billing cycle.
Anyone else hit this "threshold" ?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Curious .. are you using it for your daily internet use with tether?
Wow, I go over 10Gigs a month all the time... Internet at home got shut off here from roomate downloading movies off of bittorrent. I tether with it all the time, pandora, heck I even play battlefield on my ps3 with it...
Never got a message like that from t-mobile and hope I never do. I totally understand why they would do that though. Did this message come in the mail or via text message?
SamsungGalaxySVibrant said:
Hey, store manager, don't get so cocky, and try to throw contract statements in peoples face. I come from a family of attorneys, and just because something is stated in contract doesn't mean the consumer is wrong.
If a cell phone company runs advertisements on tv talking about their unlimited fast 3g, runs print ads talking about their unlimted fast 3g, has store reps advertise unlimited 3g to walk in customers, etc ... you get my point, the average person expects unlimited 3G, not edge. The law in all states specifically says there should be no ambiguity and ambiguity is based upon understanding from a resonable person. I'm resonable, and so are thousands of others who assume when they see advetisements for unlimited 3G, that means unlimited 3g!
I'm happy you have an understanding, but you also work for the company.
All it takes is 1 person, 1 person to fight t-mobile, start a class action law suit, and your pretty little statements are useless.
Now, going back to the person who got the t-mobile message. ARE YOU TETHERING? IF SO, YOU DESERVE TO BE KICKED OFF THE NETWORK FOR LIFE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only one cocky is you Mr. my dad is an attorney. It all depends on how you interpret "unlimited." Although his speed is crippled, he no doubt has unlimited data--as advertised. It is still via the 3g network. I personally see no legitimate grounds for any suit.
SamsungGalaxySVibrant said:
Hey, store manager, don't get so cocky, and try to throw contract statements in peoples face. I come from a family of attorneys, and just because something is stated in contract doesn't mean the consumer is wrong.
If a cell phone company runs advertisements on tv talking about their unlimited fast 3g, runs print ads talking about their unlimted fast 3g, has store reps advertise unlimited 3g to walk in customers, etc ... you get my point, the average person expects unlimited 3G, not edge. The law in all states specifically says there should be no ambiguity and ambiguity is based upon understanding from a resonable person. I'm resonable, and so are thousands of others who assume when they see advetisements for unlimited 3G, that means unlimited 3g!
I'm happy you have an understanding, but you also work for the company.
All it takes is 1 person, 1 person to fight t-mobile, start a class action law suit, and your pretty little statements are useless.
Now, going back to the person who got the t-mobile message. ARE YOU TETHERING? IF SO, YOU DESERVE TO BE KICKED OFF THE NETWORK FOR LIFE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm...What?
It is not advertised as unlimited 3g you should get that strait first. Your whole argument is flawed.
It is advertised as unlimited internet and indeed unlimited internet it is.
Is the op still receiving internet access through his phone? Yes.
Thus it is unlimited.
ARE YOU TETHERING? IF SO, YOU DESERVE TO BE KICKED OFF THE NETWORK FOR LIFE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a very narrow view on things. For life? really?
All contracts have fine print. OP signed the contract so OP is abided by the contract. If he does not like it he can take this to court but ofcourse was OP breaking the contract? If the contracts states no tethering and the OP is tethering than the OP has no chance of winning.
Tmobile is not doing anything wrong here at all.
If they did however cut off his service or charged extra fees then Tmobile is wrong.
Why is everyone here rushing to tmobiles aid? Kicked off for life? Really? The OP never even said anything negative he just asked if anyone else got the same message.
You all realize tmobile makes plenty of cash right?
Everyone here has a point. Not everything has to be a flame war.
While it might be easier and even more profitable for them to only put this in the fine print they need to be ready to deal with the consequences of misleading consumers. Which I'm sure they are.
Texted While Driving
My concern is that if people star challenging this that we will end up with tiered pricing and hard caps similar to AT&T.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
SamsungGalaxySVibrant said:
Hey, store manager, don't get so cocky, and try to throw contract statements in peoples face. I come from a family of attorneys, and just because something is stated in contract doesn't mean the consumer is wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am an attorney myself, and people really need to stop assuming it's a spectator sport. Any lawsuit over this issue is probably bull****, but who knows how it would actually come out - there's a heck of a lot of relevant background you would need to know. It's very difficult to predict. And if assholes with porn addictions or who use 3G data as a substitute for home internet start suing Tmo, we are very quickly going to end up with tiered data plans. Is that what you want?
But please people, stop speculating about lawsuits and holding forth on what the law is if you're not a lawyer. And no, having friends and family who are lawyers doesn't qualify you.
sl0play said:
Kicked off for life? Really? The OP never even said anything negative he just asked if anyone else got the same message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, im no attorney but personally I think that's too lenient. I feel that anyone caught tethering should be buried up to their necks in mud and stoned to death, and left there for the crows to pick away the remains, and it should be broadcast via real-time web cam as an example to others who might try the same.
If the offending party were to admit guilt only then would there be some leniency, and they would be sentenced to life in prison.
And by life I mean they put you in the cell and weld the door shut.... and that's that. No clothes, no blankets, just a blackberry curve with edge connection.
I'm from the old school.
Tmo for life, bro!
;-)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
So this is what it's come to...
http://phandroid.com/2010/11/01/t-mobile-launches-200mb-data-plan-and-tethering-add-on/
15 dollar for the right to tether. Still 5gb cap!!!
More like 5gb crap!
ntellegence said:
So this is what it's come to...
http://phandroid.com/2010/11/01/t-mobile-launches-200mb-data-plan-and-tethering-add-on/
15 dollar for the right to tether. Still 5gb cap!!!
More like 5gb crap!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like anyone here is going to buy that tethering plan...lol a data plan is enough to pay for..just use it
You laugh...if they pull a sprint you hit 5gb you are tethering. You will pay. No tethering is in our contracts I believe.
They can do deep packet inspection from their network to detect tethering. Doesn't mean they will.
Even though TM has the 5GB cap, once a customer reaches the cap, TM has the option to throttle the speeds depending on the customer's past usage. But TM won't charge an overage fee like the other carriers.
I've thought about this after I saw the press release yesterday and was wondering if they weren't going to institute the soft cap for people that are buying the tethering. If that was the case, I may actually pay up and ditch my home internet or go to an economy plan just so my wife can surf. If they are still enforcing the cap for people buying the tethering plan, this is total crap.
dattaway said:
They can do deep packet inspection from their network to detect tethering. Doesn't mean they will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Trust me, unless a LOT has changed in the past 2 years.... deep packet inspection won't be happening any time soon.
For the most part, it is all cell phone companies can do to keep their sites working properly while slowly expanding service.
I'm not saying it won't ever happen... but we are still a few years from it making financial sense for them to dedicate resources to reading the user-agent on your http requests
Tarzanman said:
LOL. Trust me, unless a LOT has changed in the past 2 years.... deep packet inspection won't be happening any time soon.
For the most part, it is all cell phone companies can do to keep their sites working properly while slowly expanding service.
I'm not saying it won't ever happen... but we are still a few years from it making financial sense for them to dedicate resources to reading the user-agent on your http requests
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find the trend towards cap + tethering fee quite offensive. A tethering fee with unlimited data makes some kind of sense, but when you're only getting 5GB regardless it seems horribly anti-consumer.
We can observe that, e.g., AT&T hasn't made an effort (at least, not a successful one) to crack down on tethering, and we can hope that the same is true for T-Mobile. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a horribly annoying move from a carrier that I used to think had the most pro-consumer policies in this country.
If it comes to it, I'll route through a VPN when tethering to avoid detection before I'll pay this fee.
JeremyNT said:
I find the trend towards cap + tethering fee quite offensive. A tethering fee with unlimited data makes some kind of sense, but when you're only getting 5GB regardless it seems horribly anti-consumer.
We can observe that, e.g., AT&T hasn't made an effort (at least, not a successful one) to crack down on tethering, and we can hope that the same is true for T-Mobile. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a horribly annoying move from a carrier that I used to think had the most pro-consumer policies in this country.
If it comes to it, I'll route through a VPN when tethering to avoid detection before I'll pay this fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As has been stated MANY TIMES now, unlike other providers, all T-Mo will do if you hit the 5gb "cap" is slow the connection down, not cut you off or charge you up the wazoo, so it's not really capped
RobBull69 said:
I've thought about this after I saw the press release yesterday and was wondering if they weren't going to institute the soft cap for people that are buying the tethering. If that was the case, I may actually pay up and ditch my home internet or go to an economy plan just so my wife can surf. If they are still enforcing the cap for people buying the tethering plan, this is total crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your 5GB cap still applies while tethered. Download 100MB of slacker on your phone, then tether to your PC to download 100MB of porn, and you just used 200MB of your allotment (although you had an arguably fun time doing so).
That said, I don't see why a single person in this forum would be concerned. None of the rooted roms will have the tethering feature blocked anyways. So T-Mobile won't know the difference.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I hit 5GB a few days ago and will theoretically be capped for another few days.
You don't wanna get capped.
JeremyNT said:
I find the trend towards cap + tethering fee quite offensive. A tethering fee with unlimited data makes some kind of sense, but when you're only getting 5GB regardless it seems horribly anti-consumer.
We can observe that, e.g., AT&T hasn't made an effort (at least, not a successful one) to crack down on tethering, and we can hope that the same is true for T-Mobile. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a horribly annoying move from a carrier that I used to think had the most pro-consumer policies in this country.
If it comes to it, I'll route through a VPN when tethering to avoid detection before I'll pay this fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really despise the attitude that any additional charges automatically equals "anti-consumer". T-mobile is not anti-consumer. No corporation with individual customers is anti-consumer. These networks have every NEED and RIGHT to charge for data services, and charge in such a way encourages moderate consumption. If any single carrier implemented a 15$ unlimited data+tether plan, the flood of consumers would bring the network to it's knees.
In reality, a plan which encourages moderate consumption over vast over gorging on data is entirely "pro-consumer" according to your terms, because it increases the likelihood of stability of the network.
And last of all, T-mobile doesn't have a cap. It's a throttle point. It's not a cap. Furthermore, T-mobile doesn't charge for data over the "cap". Other networks do. It encourages moderate consumption, it protects itself from zealous consumers, and DOESN'T charge overrages and extra fees. That sound pretty darn pro-consumer to me.
I don't mind the tmo 5gb "cap", it's reasonable and I've never come close to it. I also don't try to use the cellular network for bittorrent and such. I do stream audio and video over it a fair bit though. IMO, the tethering fee is retarded. It shouldn't matter what device I use 5gb of data on, only THAT I use 5gb of data. That said, it's probably in part to pay for the support of idiots that can't figure out how to use it. Customer support is EXPENSIVE compared to network time. People here will just use our root apps and such to do it, and they will likely never know. DPI can tell, but encryption will remove that issue. VPN is easy enough to set up.
Thegreatheed said:
In reality, a plan which encourages moderate consumption over vast over gorging on data is entirely "pro-consumer" according to your terms, because it increases the likelihood of stability of the network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's not what a tethering surcharge is, when you're already capped at 5GB.
Pay per use? Fine. Charge for tethering when a plan's unlimited (I mean, really unlimited)? Fine, I can see that. But to both impose a 5GB limit (and don't kid yourself, you do not want to be throttled to dialup speeds) and to charge for tethering is just an arbitrary fee.
Mobile providers are dumb pipes, and that's how they should bill. I don't mind if they bill me for how many geebees of data I use, but I do mind when they bill me based on how I use that data.
Oh, and I realize that T-Mobile could be worse. There's a reason I'm still with them. But that doesn't mean that they're good, or that this policy doesn't negatively impact my perception of their pricing structure.
Do they have the right to do it? Sure they do. But it's a tactic that counts as a negative for me personally, so I'm more likely to switch to another carrier in the future if one has a pricing structure that I'm more comfortable with.
They aren't charging for "how" as much as they're charging for convenience. Tetherable smartphones undercut data stick sales and monthly data stick fees that road warriers used to pay. The fees are their way to make up for that loss.
does t-mobile have a dial code to check monthly data usage? like #674# for text?
[EDIT] Some posters have responded that the assumptions made below are unrealistic as regards the average subscriber. That is absolutely true! This OP is unrelated to the "average subscriber." The thread is about the disconnect between the data download volume required by high-bandwidth apps being advertised by the carriers and the cummulative monthly data volume permitted by the carriers. I.e., this post would be valid if there were zero subscribers using these services. I would note, however, that these ideas will become increasingly applicable to the average subscriber as subscribers begin to use the cited services in greater volumes.
Other posters have commented that the 2 mbps assumption in this OP is unrealistically high. Please see posts 52, 54, and 75 for calculations related to actual apps that use similar bandwidths.
There has been much contraversy surrounding TMO's throttling network access speeds after a subscriber uses (or downloads?) 5 GB of data. Also, some people seem to be confused as to the meaning of the associated terms "bandwidth," "download speed," "total monthly usage," etc. This post is simply an attempt to clarify these terms and to add perspective to the issue.
I will use an (imprecise) analogy to household electrical power usage. The quantity of electrical power (measured in kilowatts), consumed at any point in time depends upon the sum of the current draw of the appliances, fixtures, machinery, etc. operating at that point in time. (Although power = voltage multiplied by current, the power company keeps the voltage relatively constant.)
Wireless data downloads can be considered as analogous to electrical power consumption if we analogize maximum link speed (also referred to as bandwidth) to voltage and bit flow to current. The power company maintains a (relatively constant) voltage to enable us to pull a variable amount of current according to our needs. A carrier maintains a (variable) amount of bandwidth to enable us to transfer a variable amount of data according to our needs.
Kilowatts and bits/second are both instantaeous values. So, the electric meter must continuously meter the current as it flows through the meter to sum the total energy used (kilowatt-hours). Likewise, TMO (apparently) implements a meter on their servers for each subscriber to monitor data flow over the course of a billing month.
Now, this is where the analogy gets interesting.
The power company charges per usage while TMO advertises and charges a flat monthly rate (assuming an "unlimited" data plan). On the surface (read: "as advertised"), the TMO plan sounds better. One is able to plan for a fixed monthly expenditure without having to worry about consumption. That is very appealing, because TMO has also heavily marketed their newer and ever-faster networks as well as devices and services requiring these greater bandwidths.
But notice what happens when a customer attempts to aggressively use the new devices, services, and supporting network bandwidths. When the data throttling hammer comes down, Internet data services are simply terminated until the beginning of the next billing month, for most practical purposes! (The modern Internet is largely non-functional at 56 kb.)
How would such behaviour play out with household energy consumption per our analogy? Say the power company initiates a big marketing campaign to place equipment and services in your home that require lots of power to operate, and sets you up on a flat monthly fee. To accommodate the new equipment and services, the power company drops 10kV service to your home. The first month, You use the new, very power-hungry equipment and services for 5-6 hours. By then, you have used 20,000 kwH. The power company's policy is to throttle users who reach 20,000 kwH. So what do they do? According to the analogy, they decrease the voltage to your house to 20 volts. Of course, 20 volts is not enough to run anything except perhaps enough to make a couple of light bulbs flicker. However, the power company can say that, technically, they have not breached their obligation to supply you unlimited power for a fixed fee. If you can do something with 20 volts for the remainder of the billing month, have at it!
For both the power company and a wireless carrier, these are peak loading problems. The difference is that the power company builds out the infrastructure necessary to handle peak loading for all of its customers, big and small.
A wireless data carrier can "build out" in two dimensions, speed and capacity. These are related but different quantities. Say TMO replaces transceiver technology on a tower. Say the old system had 4 transceivers, each capable of handling 1000 subscribers and providing data speeds of between 500kbps and 5 Mbps to each subscriber depending upon the number of data users connected to that tower. Now assume that the upgrade has five transceivers, each capable of handling 1000 subscribers. New technolgoy coding techniques now render a transceiver capable of providing data speeds of 1-21 Mbps, depending upon the number of data uses connected to that transceiver and their data requirements, etc. In this scenario, the carrier could do fancy marketing to pull in additional subscribers and some users would in fact sometimes see faster downloads. However, the carrier might not have accomplished much from a capacity standpoint in this scenario. E.g., tripling the number of 3G radios might be better from a capacity standpoint than replacing the existing 3G radios with 4G radios. However, the latter is much sexier from a marketing standpoint.
We will know when TMO has finally built out sufficient capacity to satisfy the data demand that they themselves create by hyping speed and speed-requiring services such as TMO-TV; because at that point there will be no further need for data caps and they will be removed or increased to higher thresholds. In the meantime, the following calculation is an indication of the amount of "unlimited" nework access we currently receive from TMO in exchange for our $80 - $100:
What is your average download speed? Of course it varies from region to region and from one moment to the next. Let us just pick some reasonable number as an average to work with, say 2 mbps. Consider that average and the 5 GB data cap. For quick calculation purposes, let us consider 10 bits/byte. (The real number is ~9 bits/byte after taking into account error correction overhead, etc.)
(5 x 10E9 Bytes) x (10 bits/byte) = 5 x 10E10 bits
(5 x 10E10 bits) / (2 x 10E6 bits/sec) = 25000 seconds
(25,000 seconds) / (3600 seconds/hr) = 6.9 hours
In conclusion: An "unlimited" TMO data plan provides about 7 hours of [clarification: high bandwidth application] access monthly, based upon advertised and provided speeds, before one is cut off from useful data access. Your available number of hours will vary according to the data speeds that you experience/utilize.
There are ~720 hours in a month. Thus, our carrier's plan provides for 2 mbps use of our phone about 1% of the time or about 25 minutes per day.
If you understand and are happy with this (as many no doubt are), wonderful! I believe that a subscriber should at least be aware of what he/she is getting for his/her $80-$100 per month, though; and the carriers should, but do not, disclose this information.
The only grip I have about it is, I wished it was cheaper, maybe $20-25 (i know about the loyalty plan but I haven't gotten time to ask about it). Or offer a $15 2gb plan (as opposed to the janky $10/15 200mb plan)
Unlimited means..
1. Having no restrictions or controls.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute.
This is what Unlimited mean,not the twisted version T-mobile trick some into believe,Unlimited mean no restrictions no controls,you can't abuse something that is presented to you in Unlimited form period.
I don't know why people have no sue T-mobile for this.
eltormo said:
Unlimited means..
1. Having no restrictions or controls.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute.
This is what Unlimited mean,not the twisted version T-mobile trick some into believe,Unlimited mean no restrictions no controls,you can't abuse something that is presented to you in Unlimited form period.
I don't know why people have no sue T-mobile for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who says unlimited means no restrictions and no controls? Unlimited defines whether there is a limit or not, not how you use the internet.
As for the OP, I regularly tether and use my phone and still haven't hit the 5 GB limit (downloading apps/games on my phone, roms, kernels, streaming Pandora, forum browsing on my laptop and youtube streaming).
The one's that get over the 5GB limit are probably doing things that they shouldn't be doing so imo it's fair and I would rather have it set to 5GB than having them raise rates for everybody and offer real unlimited.
not satisfied, but not upset. had i not streamed the entire super bowl through my phone, my data wouldn't be throttled right now!
my bad
ahem
Umm....
Cap ?
sahil04 said:
Who says unlimited means no restrictions and no controls? Unlimited defines whether there is a limit or not, not how you use the internet.
As for the OP, I regularly tether and use my phone and still haven't hit the 5 GB limit (downloading apps/games on my phone, roms, kernels, streaming Pandora, forum browsing on my laptop and youtube streaming).
The one's that get over the 5GB limit are probably doing things that they shouldn't be doing so imo it's fair and I would rather have it set to 5GB than having them raise rates for everybody and offer real unlimited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know i just quoted a dictionary definition of Unlimited right one of them is having not restrictions or controls.?
Maybe you know more than the dudes who wrote the dictionary maybe we should go by your terms and not what the real definition means.
In fact the terms i quote are not referring to the Internet.
Stop lying dude i download 3 gameloft games,and watched some video on youtube and i landed over 1 GB in just 3 days,games from the android market like gameloft ones are close to 300 MB,i have spiderman,SplinterCell and GT racing and with those 3 alone i got close to 900MB.
In fact i made a test and watched several videos on youtube,and did some download without tethering,and i landed on 1.3 GB in just 3 days,and i did not even tether dude,stop acting like 5GB is allot if not,in fact not even close to be that much 5GB is nothing this days,i have video on my Galaxy S that are 53MB just for a 3 and half minute video,just head over to youtube and see how much data and actual good quality video takes.
In fact i have Temperature by Sean Paul and is 53 MB,10 miserable video like that one,that is what enough to get you what an hour of entertainment or less,and you have 500MB is just 1 hours of watching videos,use it 2 hours and you have 1GB already eat up.
5GB is nothing.
In fact roms alone are 130+ MB,some are close or over 200 MB,download 7 of those on 1 week and you already have close to 1GB use,just for roms.
Your math doesn't add up,and even without tethering 5GB is nothing.
But show me what we should not be doing,since phones like the mytouch 4G are also throttle and those are advertise as video phones (not that the Vibrant can't do that) and as a wireless hub,where other devices can connect to you,(again no that the Vibrant can't do that either),so in the end you have a service that is been advertise as unlimited,only to be punish for using it,Verizon did the same thing and was force to settle in cash.
I read now that T-mobile was sue for this as well,i don't think the outcome will be any different than what happen with Verizon.
I like the dictionary version of what Unlimited means,not your or T-mobile twisted version,you most work for T-mobile you have to,to actually cheer for such a scam,and to accuse others of wrong doing,when the features all this phones have are bandwidth demanding.
Tmobile
I like Tmobile
n2ishun said:
Umm....
Cap ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what's this a picture of?
eltormo said:
Unlimited means..
1. Having no restrictions or controls.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute.
This is what Unlimited mean,not the twisted version T-mobile trick some into believe,Unlimited mean no restrictions no controls,you can't abuse something that is presented to you in Unlimited form period.
I don't know why people have no sue T-mobile for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is what "unlimited" means. You got the adjective right but I believe that you may be misunderstanding the noun. "Unlimited" must modify something; it cannot be analyzed by itself. if you read the fine print you will see that TMO promises unlimited Internet access, not unlimited Internet access at any particular speed. Thus (they claim), they continue to supply "unlimited" Internet access at 56kb after switching on the cap. That is, you may download any amount of data possible at 56kb. They may not even promise that. They may simply talk in terms of an "unlimited plan," which is marketing sizzle that means essentially nothing, except perhaps suggesting an absence of up-charges.
It seems that you may be suggesting that TMO promises unlimited access at any speed. That would not make sense, of course, because they are not physically capable of providing "any speed." So, what bandwidth are you buying when you sign up with a carrier? Well, essentially you are buying into an uncertain, imaginary bandwidth. By that I mean that in your own mind you imagine/hope what the bandwidth will be like, based upon that carrier's generally-stated advertising, PR releases, reputation, etc. At the current state of the wireless art, a carrier will not promise a retail customer any particular bandwidth.
That is where the "trick" lies and how unpleasant surprises arise. The carriers speak out of two sides of their mouth. One side is the advertising, PR, press releases, etc. which suggest certain bandwidth availability by making references to services (movie downloads, Internet TV, etc.) that require such bandwidth availability. The other side of their mouths is the retail subscriber contract terms which suggest just the opposite. That is, regular use of the bandwidths suggested in the PR constitutes punishable abuse.
These are untenable, contradictory positions that will likely not persist for much longer (JMO). Unfortunately, the short-term "fix" could be a metering scheme that is even worse. If they take that route, though, their ad campaign might take a big hit, as they would likely have to abandon terms like "unlimited."
It may be helpful to keep in mind what the wireless carrier business really is. A carrier spends billions of dollars to purchase spectral bandwidth from the US government. That carrier then spends additional billions of dollars to build out a network which enables them to repackage the spectral bandwidth as voice/data bandwidth to sell at retail. Like any other business, a wireless carrier will attempt to sell its service (repackaged bandwidth) for as high a price as the market will allow. Understanding this is the key to understanding why a carrier will laugh all the way to the bank when a fixed price, high-bandwidth customer threatens to cancel their contract and/or take their business elsewhere. If that happens, the carrier will simply resell that bandwidth to two or more new customers who may be smaller bandwidth consumers. Following such a transaction, the carrier will have replaced $80 per month of revenue with $160 $240 or more of monthly revenue.
Please note that my writings in this or any other XDA threads are simply personal opinions relating to public matters and are specifically not intended as statements of fact or advice. Any references to particular carriers are intended as examples only and could be applicable to any carrier.
Interesting Poll
The poll at the top of the page is interesting. At this point, at least, the extremes of "very satisfied" and "completely dissatisfied" are fairly evenly split.
Please vote if you have not already done so.
I am sure T-Mobile will double the cap pretty soon, and $30 ($25 with EM+) internet will have tethering included in the near future because AT&T is pressing hard on the new 4G smartphone + tethering pricing:
$45 with 4GB and tethering, and $10 per GB overage.
zbt1985 said:
what's this a picture of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
121 gigs of transfer over Tmo in the last 31 days ?
BruceElliott said:
Yes, that is what "unlimited" means. unlimited Internet access, not unlimited Internet access at any particular speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think if even YOU (a Tmobile shill) will look at it, limiting internet speed is still LIMITING.
My contract states in clear language, UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS.
They have tried to force me to change that contract many times.
Many many times.
I will not change it, or allow them to change it, it is a binding contract.
Yes, they offer free phones and minutes and even freemonths for me to change it...NFW, ain't happenin.
n2ishun said:
I think if even YOU (a Tmobile shill) will look at it, limiting internet speed is still LIMITING.
My contract states in clear language, UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS.
They have tried to force me to change that contract many times.
Many many times.
I will not change it, or allow them to change it, it is a binding contract.
Yes, they offer free phones and minutes and even freemonths for me to change it...NFW, ain't happenin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A T-Mobile shill? You must not be reading my posts very carefully... LOL!
n2ishun said:
121 gigs of transfer over Tmo in the last 31 days ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No; that is an application associated with a BitTorrent client that simply keeps track of Internet usage. Not sure how it is applicable to this thread, given that TMO provides the same information for TMO's wireless service.
mingkee said:
I am sure T-Mobile will double the cap pretty soon, and $30 ($25 with EM+) internet will have tethering included in the near future because AT&T is pressing hard on the new 4G smartphone + tethering pricing:
$45 with 4GB and tethering, and $10 per GB overage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be good. Let's hope that you are correct.
I pay good money for my data plan. And it is indeed very limited.
I had a talk with T-mobile on Twitter back when it was announced about the HSPA+ speeds and said why is there a cap after 5gb and I used the 21mb/s and gave them all the calculations as to how quickly that 5gb would get used up. I asked why give us faster speeds when you could be investing our money into expanding the network giving 3G speeds to areas stuck on EDGE or have no coverage from T-mobile. Their only response was stay tuned for what we have in store for our customers.
Yes throttling speed that is done purposely by T-mobile makes it not unlimited. If it was simply limited to the speed that you can get given where you are using your phone at then that would mean unlimited.
Scoobyracing03 said:
I had a talk with T-mobile on Twitter back when it was announced about the HSPA+ speeds and said why is there a cap after 5gb and I used the 21mb/s and gave them all the calculations as to how quickly that 5gb would get used up. I asked why give us faster speeds when you could be investing our money into expanding the network giving 3G speeds to areas stuck on EDGE or have no coverage from T-mobile. Their only response was stay tuned for what we have in store for our customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, you clearly anticipated what my OP is about when you communicated with TMO. Let's hope that the person who suggested that you "stay tuned" was well-informed!
I imagine that the early build-out in the speed dimension was a marketing tool designed to capture customers based upon the "wow" factor of enormous speed. However, a carrier who does not quickly follow this angle up with building out in the capacity dimension will (and has) disappoint(ed) customers and will likely fall flat on their face. Wireless carriers are, of course, a limited monopoly, limited by available spectral bandwidth constraints and huge investment costs. We in the U.S. are fortunate to at least have a few carriers to compete for customers. Hopefully that competition will be sufficient to continue to drive investment in capacity. If not, the public sector can always step in... At the end of the day, the freqency spectrum, like the air we breath, is owned by the people. We may lease it out. We may also cancel leases for the public good...
Bad news! I am at a buddies house using WiFi Router, and then Internet Sharing over Bluetooth PAN and just got a text from the new AT&T owned T-mobile service center saying my teather/WiFi sharing will be blocked unless I purchase a special plan from them...
I LOVE my HD2 Leo, but after everything they've put me through over the last 2 years, this may be the final insult. Free teathering and recently the way cool xda WiFi Router app have been a benifit allowance that now will be tossed on the plate of the all mighty cash cow.
I wonder if a cooked ROM HD2, or 3rd party app might get around this, but alas! They probably detect the networked devices different IP. Can we Yanks please flood T-mobile customer service with requests to stop this greedy new rule? If one has the unlimited data plan, what does it matter which device is using it?
greedy? why is it greedy? the networks are tehre to make money aswell as provide a service, the data plan you have is normally for mobile data use only, the network im on do not allow tethering at all due to the sheer volume of data than can be used when you hook a laptop up tot he data connection
nothing will get around it if they are using software to detect what header data is being sent
is it truly unlimited tho? my proivder says it is unlinuted buyt there is a soft cap of about 20Gb whcih if you are using that on a mobile phone is absolutely crazy, it is stop people using a cheaper mobile data connection than havin to pay for proper broadband
AtticusPhynch said:
Bad news! I am at a buddies house using WiFi Router, and then Internet Sharing over Bluetooth PAN and just got a text from the new AT&T owned T-mobile service center saying my teather/WiFi sharing will be blocked unless I purchase a special plan from them...
I LOVE my HD2 Leo, but after everything they've put me through over the last 2 years, this may be the final insult. Free teathering and recently the way cool xda WiFi Router app have been a benifit allowance that now will be tossed on the plate of the all mighty cash cow.
I wonder if a cooked ROM HD2, or 3rd party app might get around this, but alas! They probably detect the networked devices different IP. Can we Yanks please flood T-mobile customer service with requests to stop this greedy new rule? If one has the unlimited data plan, what does it matter which device is using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which plan do you have?
Richy99 said:
greedy? why is it greedy? the networks are tehre to make money aswell as provide a service, the data plan you have is normally for mobile data use only, the network im on do not allow tethering at all due to the sheer volume of data than can be used when you hook a laptop up tot he data connection
nothing will get around it if they are using software to detect what header data is being sent
is it truly unlimited tho? my proivder says it is unlinuted buyt there is a soft cap of about 20Gb whcih if you are using that on a mobile phone is absolutely crazy, it is stop people using a cheaper mobile data connection than havin to pay for proper broadband
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are lucky, T_Mobile has a 5GB soft cap, unless your 20GB quote was a typo and was suppose to be 2GB.
You are right if they are looking for people tethering then they will find you. I tether a good bit so I know they will find me eventually and I will hate it. I mean no matter what someone says about it, this is a clear injustice to the consumer. The consumer should have the right to use their devices and services they pay for in the manor they wish. Not be told 'Hey sorry but we can nolonger offer this service for free". It is a crock if you ask me.
I don't know why you say a cheaper mobile data service. Cause I pay $30 USD a month for my unlimited data, and it is $30 a month for a broadband service on a USB broad band device for my computer through T-Mobile. It uses the same dang network as my phone at the same dang speeds. So please tell me why I should have to pay for a "proper broadband" service, if I already have it with my phone? All you get when you get a broadband device is the cost of the device coupled with the monthly payment for the services. It is even worse that they want you to pay for something that has been free for a good while now just to add to their profits. It has nothing to do with this bull you heart about overloaded networks and the sort, those are all just a legitimizing statements to say "Hey we are right to instate these news regulations", and the mindless masses to not question the real legitimacy of it.
T-Macgnolia said:
You are lucky, T_Mobile has a 5GB soft cap, unless your 20GB quote was a typo and was suppose to be 2GB.
You are right if they are looking for people tethering then they will find you. I tether a good bit so I know they will find me eventually and I will hate it. I mean no matter what someone says about it, this is a clear injustice to the consumer. The consumer should have the right to use their devices and services they pay for in the manor they wish. Not be told 'Hey sorry but we can nolonger offer this service for free". It is a crock if you ask me.
I don't know why you say a cheaper mobile data service. Cause I pay $30 USD a month for my unlimited data, and it is $30 a month for a broadband service on a USB broad band device for my computer through T-Mobile. It uses the same dang network as my phone at the same dang speeds. So please tell me why I should have to pay for a "proper broadband" service, if I already have it with my phone? All you get when you get a broadband device is the cost of the device coupled with the monthly payment for the services. It is even worse that they want you to pay for something that has been free for a good while now just to add to their profits. It has nothing to do with this bull you heart about overloaded networks and the sort, those are all just a legitimizing statements to say "Hey we are right to instate these news regulations", and the mindless masses to not question the real legitimacy of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no not a typo, thats what some people have downlaoded before being cut off, personally i dont use anywhere near 500meg because i do all my browsing etc when im conencted to wifi in the house, people seem use the data connection on their phone for their home internet which is what causes the high volumes