Database Users

Do you feel like a paying tester?

Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.

I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
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..........haha

Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.

The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.

My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
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Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.

drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
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Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.

People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.

Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
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Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?

eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?

drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
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No, this isn't directed at you.

Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.

prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
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Click to collapse
True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .

Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
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Click to collapse
You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.

I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!

TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
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Click to collapse
I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
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Click to collapse
This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.

HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.

Feedback from SE

Having contacted SE about poor battery life, abysmal in call volume and the persistent screen lock after call ending, they have suggested that I should return my handset for remedial action - however, should no fault be found I shall have to stand the costs.
As a significant number of x10 owners have experienced the same or similar, symptoms as myself I do not agree that the handset is faulty and have suggested to SE that they monitor the various forums dedicated to their handset (which, I have pointed out, should be a world beater)
OR we could all send our handests into SE for service?
Think we should find the email adresses of the main SE men and deluge them with messages.......................................

Yeah, the mature way to deal with a problem. Moan and moan.
The problems will be fixed with the updates to the best of their ability.
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yetep said:
Yeah, the mature way to deal with a problem. Moan and moan.
The problems will be fixed with the updates to the best of their ability.
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That's fine. They still advertised a completely unrealistic battery life. I know all mobile companies do this, but usually not to such a ridiculous degree. Come on. They deserve some scorn for that.
You can say that they ran into some unforeseen problems. I'll even buy that excuse, no questions asked. That still doesn't explain their initial claims about battery life. It's a valid complaint that doesn't deserve to be brushed off as mere whining.

But even so does it merit every single one of us calling/emailing one number / email address?
This is similar to the other thread about 2.2/2.3 instead of 2.1... as the saying goes.. "I want" gets people nowhere.
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yetep said:
But even so does it merit every single one of us calling/emailing one number / email address?
This is similar to the other thread about 2.2/2.3 instead of 2.1... as the saying goes.. "I want" gets people nowhere.
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Perhaps not, but Sony should be made aware of this issue. I'm sure they are already, but they seem to be taking their time doing something about it.
This is less of an "I want" issue and more of an "I bought" issue. I bought a phone with the advertised battery life. I didn't get it. I'd say the people in that boat have reason to complain.
The 2.2 stuff I don't really care about. I'm still perfectly happy with 1.6.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Contact SE about the problems every one is experiencing may be the only way certain issues get addressed. You can not assume that SE has identified every issue.
A few phone calls each to SE customer support should make sure they don't take us for granted.

yetep said:
But even so does it merit every single one of us calling/emailing one number / email address?
This is similar to the other thread about 2.2/2.3 instead of 2.1... as the saying goes.. "I want" gets people nowhere.
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Do you have a better suggestion to ensure that our voices are heard and that SE focus their efforts on the developments that matter most to us, rather than leaving them to get on with it in the hope that they don't just develop what they think we might want?

fm1776 said:
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Contact SE about the problems every one is experiencing may be the only way certain issues get addressed. You can not assume that SE has identified every issue.
A few phone calls each to SE customer support should make sure they don't take us for granted.
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Click to collapse
lol, if a few phonecalls worked, the G2 would have gotten 2.1 months ago .. phone calls dont mean anyhting .. especially since people like SE have released 3 patches already for there x10, and the carriers aren't releasing them, and the locked phones, wont accept "check for system upgrades" .. not only SE's fault, defn' carriers fault aswell .... either way ... lame they throw out 415 hours of standby using gps, wifi, all the others they threw in there, realisticallyit is getting more more than 20-25 hours with using the Rachael UI .. that is brutal.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Contact SE about the problems every one is experiencing may be the only way certain issues get addressed. You can not assume that SE has identified every issue.
A few phone calls each to SE customer support should make sure they don't take us for granted.

bulltronStudios said:
lol, if a few phonecalls worked, the G2 would have gotten 2.1 months ago .. phone calls dont mean anyhting .. especially since people like SE have released 3 patches already for there x10, and the carriers aren't releasing them, and the locked phones, wont accept "check for system upgrades" .. not only SE's fault, defn' carriers fault aswell .... either way ... lame they throw out 415 hours of standby using gps, wifi, all the others they threw in there, realisticallyit is getting more more than 20-25 hours with using the Rachael UI .. that is brutal.
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Well, no is forcing anyone to call. Some will, like myself. And, others like yourself will not.
My original Motoral flip phone held a longer charge than this X10. SE should have waited a bit longer to release this thing. But, instead they rushed to market knowing many of the issues and had no problem accepting everyones money. Now they can accept some unpleasant complaints from the owners.

fm1776 said:
Well, no is forcing anyone to call. Some will, like myself. And, others like yourself will not.
My original Motoral flip phone held a longer charge than this X10. SE should have waited a bit longer to release this thing. But, instead they rushed to market knowing many of the issues and had no problem accepting everyones money. Now they can accept some unpleasant complaints from the owners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think calling, or not calling is the way, either way, its not gonna fix the issue, maybe it Q4 when 2.1 drops for x10... they will be fixed, and i agree whole heartedly that SE has absolutely no issue taking money while delivering a sub-par UI and drivers ... and making the customer wait out the fixes while tethered to their power sources

Well yeah... to quote the sale of goods act :
A product must be advertised accordingly with the actual product sold. It must not be shown of different specification without being included in the advertisement for that product.
So yeah I changed the words a bit to make them easier to understand for everyone, but a LEGAL route is going to be a better route rather than a complaint route.
Theyve had their time and I agree I'm fed up with it but effing and moaning is going to get us nowhere.
However, I know I personally don't have the cash to take them to court over something I find fairly feeble anyways. And the "*" next to battery life for example does refer the reader to a statement along the lines of "Subject to software configuration and data use." The battery life they claim will be running basic basic android, with all antenna off and phone on standby so that'll be the argument.
However, one word of advice for those that call is to use big, fancy words. The turkeys that answer their phones in the callcentre won't understand and therefore get scared at, things like "sale of goods act" and "quoted advertisement material".
Enjoy. Ill keep tabs on this post to see what happens from here. Never know, I might get involved.
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Think about it this way.. the more people who phone, the more calls will be answered.. the more agents they need answering phones.. the more it costs them.
also.. the more MI they get from the calls that is reported back from the call centres to the management team who make the decisions..
It's true that there is no point moaning an whinging on here.. or to the SE call centres.. but if people phone and email and do it more and more, with a real request or a point to make, or a "fault" to report etc.. then the bigger impact it has on SE, both from a financial perspective, and also from a strategic decision making perspective..
The furore around the X10 is bigger and more veciferous than any other phone out there.. and that noise must be concerning for SE..

Maybe the best thing to do is sell this X10 and leave SE for another provider that takes after sales more serious.
What do you think about the HTC EVO 4G due out this month?

i'm so glad i checked here before i got rid of my hd2 for one of these sounds VERY familiar to the xperia x1 1st days until the software update (which took a age)
not very construtive i know but thx guys for making my mind up.

Mobbs said:
i'm so glad i checked here before i got rid of my hd2 for one of these sounds VERY familiar to the xperia x1 1st days until the software update (which took a age)
not very construtive i know but thx guys for making my mind up.
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Click to collapse
This is the kind of thing that is the most likely to make Sony get their act together. This is supposed to be their flagship phone. If they can't go to the effort of making this work as advertised out of the box then perhaps they should rethink their business model.
I personally like the phone and enjoy using it. I'd recommend it to people (in Canada) who are okay with its current limitations. That being said, if Sony can't fix their issues with their flagship mobile product I don't think I'll be returning as a customer when it's time for me to get a new phone.

Battery life issues seem to be sporadic...
Remember the golden rule of the internet people... *****ing always sounds louder than praise. There's a bunch of users here... maybe 100 or so, but that barely makes even a percentage point of the phone's owners....so things are obviously going to be exaggerated.
My Xperia, for example, can go two or three days without a charge, and that's with using it everyday and having email poll every 5 minutes, and Facebook every 30.

iead1 said:
My Xperia, for example, can go two or three days without a charge, and that's with using it everyday and having email poll every 5 minutes, and Facebook every 30.
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Click to collapse
I seriously doubt that...regardless what firmware are you running??
And if you're actually in Japan help the cause out man, Sony definitely cares more about their Japanese customer base than the Canadian one, ruffle some feathers over there for the greater good!

I also get 2-3 days out of one charge. Of course depending on usage.
I sometimes only get 1 day.. but then I have used it heavily (several hours.. both streaming music, GPS, wifi etc. )...
My normal pattern gets me 2 days straight without charging. I commute 2 hours each day listening to audiobooks and streaming music.
Firmware: R1FB001,
Baseband: 1.0.21
Helix launcher, no taskkillers, weather and calendar widgets, two mailaccounts gmail and one IMAP that polls every 30min.
If I do not use it much I get 3 days.
Regards // R

I sent SE an email, somebody answered and told me it was redirected to another department and i'll be contacted soon.
More than 3 weeks and nobody answered
This is real customer support this days

This thread is for all those whinging about the delay in froyo and selling their SGS

For those of you moaning and throwing you toys out their prams with regard to the delay in Samsung releasing Froyo and threatening to sell your SGS, I have some good news for you.
Rather than post you rants in other threads that are useful, use this one to act like children.
Those of us who like the SGS don't care about you in the slightest.
There are far more people here giving the phone their support that you the minority.
The only thing I ask is that when you buy your next Android phone, can you please let us know that you are selling it because you are once again throwing your toys out of the pram?
Believe me, I an many others will not be in the slightest bit surprised, however, you could buy and Iphone or better still, give up on the idea of smartphone for now and pray that the likes of Nokia can pull something out of the bag.

This forum would be a hell of a lot cleaner if people could engage their mental ignore more often (and yes, I realise posting just to say this is hypocritical in the extreme). Instead of creating a thread especially for people "to act like children" (which is childish in itself, IMO), why not just ignore them? They'll get the message eventually if people stop responding...

That would NORMALLY work Voleo. But...
Firstly, the Mods aren't closing those threads.. They should because they are dupes anyway, and angry rants aren't relevent to XDA. We now have many copies of the same thread..
Secondly, people who are leaving often feel the need to "threaten" Samsung and whine in every thread for a few weeks about the same problems. Then slowly, some of them seem to switch to blatant lying/deception to spark a mutiny (ie. "the GPS/lag IS a HARDWARE problem" which can't be fixed). Finally then, they sell their phone, post in a few existing threads that they got fed up and sold their phone. Some also start their own thread. Those who are considering doing the same give them a pat on the back and given words of advice off the other trolls considering leaving, for eg "it's healthy to rant". Which continues the chain going. Since they have issues (with the phone and otherwise), they want to make Samsung suffer.
The big problem however, is that doing so, their BS/exaggerations accumulates and if nobody responds, we have a forum filled with rubbish like "33% of the time my phone is laggy". So, in part, we need to tell them to prove their claims, or STFU, because otherwise, they enforce each other, reduce morale here, and cause other people to exaggerate minor problems in their mind, and on the forum.

Oh here we go, yet another thread to ***** around Thought we had enough of them?
If you are not happy with your "product" sell it move on and enjoy the life. Simple. As you definitely wont be loosing money on SGS.
Have always worked for me.
Cheers
Vlad

Now is a good time for Luecke's laws...
Luecke's first law
Those who are dissatisfied will always strive to exaggerate minor device problems in technical forums.
Luecke's second law
When making technical comparisons between devices in arguments, dissatisfied users will compare to devices based on company reputation alone, and will totally ignore fixed problems with that device.

dovla_sa said:
Oh here we go, yet another thread to ***** around Thought we had enough of them?
If you are not happy with your "product" sell it move on and enjoy the life. Simple. As you definitely wont be loosing money on SGS.
Have always worked for me.
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Click to collapse
As I said once again, not everyone can just "sell on", and I disagree you "definitely wont lose money"... how not?
The 8Gb SGS was £450 on launch here, if I were to sell now I probably wouldn't even get £300 for it - that's depreciation whichever way you wrap it up - unless of course you bought it second hand to begin with.
I agree in some ways that there are some childish rants in here. I have myself been criticial of the SGS, but my "rants" were detailed and constructive. In some ways, some of the replies I got which were defending the SGS were actually more childish than my constructive criticism, so its not the one sided affair that threads like this portray.
Incidentally, I get the impression that some people simply don't like hearing any criticism of their beloved phone. This is "fanboy" behaviour. Most level headed people would admit that the phone has some relatively major problems, and to say otherwise is burying your head in the sand. I've said it before, it comes down to how heavily you use the phone, and what your past experiences / expectations are.
I'll be honest, I've come close at times to selling the SGS. By xmas there will be a number of phones I would swap with quite happily for one reason or another, but its the phone I've got, and the idea of losing a load of money selling it does not sit easy with me no matter how many faults it might have.
To be fair, thanks to this forum I've actually managed to tweak the phone and get it to a standard which is pretty much more than acceptable, but it has taken me lots of time, and it has taken developers on here lots of time to produce fixes for some of the problems. If it time is money, then the SGS has been by far the most expensive mobile phone I've yet owned!

Wow, the OP is pure hypocrisy.
But I've seen one thing. Most of us hate apple fan boys, but it looks like xda is full of SGS fan boys too.
The point is, the SGS does have problems because of buggy software. No one knows when official fixes are coming out. So for some people, its better to sell, make Samsung look like idiots, and walk. Samsung do deserve to look like fools. Their QA dept. is just royally screwed. Its just sad how great HW is killed by crap SW.
If people wanna rant, then let them. Most of the time the rants are true, but maybe quantitatively exaggerated, example 50% of the time lagging. It nevertheless brings to light real problems of the SGS's SW.

Many people do rant over and over again in every tread. It kind of boring to read same thing over and over again from same people. If they stayed in this tread it would be 30-40% less post in every tread and it would be nice and more correct.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

asicman said:
Wow, the OP is pure hypocrisy.
But I've seen one thing. Most of us hate apple fan boys, but it looks like xda is full of SGS fan boys too.
The point is, the SGS does have problems because of buggy software. No one knows when official fixes are coming out. So for some people, its better to sell, make Samsung look like idiots, and walk. Samsung do deserve to look like fools. Their QA dept. is just royally screwed. Its just sad how great HW is killed by crap SW.
If people wanna rant, then let them. Most of the time the rants are true, but maybe quantitatively exaggerated, example 50% of the time lagging. It nevertheless brings to light real problems of the SGS's SW.
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Awesome post! Thank you. The SGS fanboys are just as annoying as the Apple ones.

Chill, it's just a phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

While I've been using Linux as my main OS since 1997, not all my friends have. I've fixed the lag issue. I wouldn't trust my friends to realize the root cause of the lag problem and then find a fix. They would think the product is bad. And it is. What the hell kind of product has to be jailbroken to correct bad engineering? I'm not talking of too-restrictive-engineering (like App Store), but straight-out bad engineering. After a few days of use and few tens of applications (which is well within normal and encouraged use of a flagship product, non?), lagging becomes terrible. Applying a lag fix results in a roughly ten-fold increase in effective IOPS.
Anyhow, I cannot fix the GPS issue. It has to be done in firmware. I got this phone in JU-FREAKIN'-LY and Samsung STILL haven't fixed this issue. And I ain't complaining about lack of Froyo.
I'M COMPLAINING ABOUT A LACK OF BASIC BUGFIXES!
Oh, and that the slow, overengineered, proprietary Kies application crashes whenever I try to install whatever firmware update they just posted. They were three months late in posting fixes. And now their update procedure doesn't work. Adding insult to injury is not a good idea. What the hell kinda management will let such products out the door - both the 2.1 firmware for the SGS and the now-broken Kies?
Sorry I had to yell at you. I hope you misunderstood because you've listened to too much awesome rock'n'roll music and that has fried your ears.

My phone got faster after lagfix on 2.1 and 2.2, but i never had any big lag that the wieners here have.
I also have an iphone and can compare them. Iphone do lag sometimes to. Sometimes it just freezing. Sometimes it crash. I can say the sgs is better on everything.
The gps is much better.
Better screen.
.....
....
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

For me, who had a htc diamond and then an iphone 3g... GPS is amazing in the SGS lol

Fanboyism is never good.
Samsung shouldnt have made promise
that they can't keep. Thats not professional.
However, apple fanboys are the worst.
Steve Jobs has become like a religion.

I have used the SGS for 2 months and I am on stock firmware with voodoo lagfix. I don't know why people are complaining about buggy firmware. The firmware is NOT buggy. I never have crashes or major issues with core software components. The only issue is the lag but this can be fixed (i am using voodoo and this fix has eliminates most lag).
As for GPS, I did not encountered any issues with it with most navigation software. Some times accuracy may not be perfectly accurate but is still within tolerance.
Froyo may bring more goodies, but even as it is now, the Galaxy is near perfect. I think this phone will still come out on top in any pro-con list with other phones.

whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs.. I had an I phone3g and once it was loaded with apps it would hang up from time to time and lag.. the same with the blackberry bold 2nd gen that I had it would lag all over once it had alot of apps... HTC's phones are the same way.. This is what can happens once the OS's on smart phones becomes complex.. its not just the Samsung S..
I'm running JPK with no lag fix.. (no need for it with JPK) and alot of people I have showed the phone too can't get over how fast it is.. these are people with Iphones and Blackberrys.

TriC_101 said:
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs.........
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Click to collapse
The big deal is Samsungs ignorance or incompetence to make a bug fix. I bought my SGS late june, and still no GPS fix from Samsung.
I can live with a laggy and erratic GPS, but I can not live with a GPS who sometimes are running in the parallel streets and tries to guide me back to the street I am actually driving for the moment.
Edit:
My SGS is in for service for 3. time now. If the GPS is not working when it returns, it will be "3 Strikes Out" and my money back and Samsung's ignorance or incompetence has saved me my money.

TriC_101 said:
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, because every phone has bugs we have to shut down the mouth and say nothing?
If an iPhone 4 has bugs we have to say that, if an HTC has bugs we have to say that.

Nobody is saying don't say anything.. But what is getting annoying:
People posting dedicated threads containing the bugs which annoy them, instead of posting to the threads already discussing the separate bugs. Strangely, they aren't marked as dupes...
The constant exaggerations and lies. Rather than have an honest debate, many are choosing to heavily exaggerate/lie about their problems. Rather than have an honest debate, many people are also trying to close debate with BS such as "the gps problems ARE HARDWARE, end of story!", or use fake statistics such as "this phone is unusable 66% of the time it's so laggy". The other side isn't perfect either though, and some are saying "the GPS is perfect, but they wont post tracks".
The lack of proof. People are getting away with inventing claims too easily. ON BOTH SIDES. People are accepting "it's detailed in another thread" as evidence, whilst in many cases, it isn't actually PROVEN in any other thread, or the "proof" has flaws .
People are getting called fanboy's when they question a claim. This shouldn't happen
People who are dissatisfied need to patting their fellow whingers on the back for creating threads and venting.
We need more people to question what is said, and just because something IS said, to not allow them to be called a fanboy. That's the problem. There's a lot of BS on both sides, and not enough questioning.

No external linking is allowed?! How am I going to prove this? Let's be manaul:
My endomondo account 225326 has workouts using both a Nokia n82 (before July) and Samsung Galaxy S (starting in july). The Nokia workouts rarely had GPS issues aside from inaccuracy when running close to larger buildings. I do all the time with my Samsung Galaxy S, it will only have sporadic locks. It is useless for tracking workouts, it only works as a glorified stopwatch. Google Maps is close to unusable, especially when outside urban areas where there's enough base stations to triangulate with fair accuracy.
If you turn off the radio assist thing, you'll experience exactly how reliable the GPS is. I dare you to try!

How long before involving Consumer Product Liability Law?

Consumer Product Liability Law quote
"Products that malfunction or cause harm due to design flaws, manufacturing errors or inadequate warnings or directions are considered defective."
How much more time should we, consumers, give Samsung before asking Feds to help us? I personally would like to believe that consumers have rights, a concept that Samsung is not willing to accept.
For the curious ones, this post has to do with Samsung recalling the broken phones for the purpose of fixing them. For the ignorant ones, pat yourself on the back for accomplishing nothing again.

I suppose the other thread with people whining was not adequate?
You didnt even address what you are upset about? I assume GPS.... which is funny since the VAST MAJORITY on here have absolutely no issues.

Lawsuits and such
Krzysiek_CK said:
Consumer Product Liability Law quote "Products that malfunction or cause harm due to design flaws, manufacturing errors or inadequate warnings or directions are considered defective." How much more time should we, consumers, give Samsung before asking Feds to help us? I personally would like to believe that consumers have rights, a concept that Samsung is not willing to accept.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm assuming based on your other postings that this relates to GPS issues. I'll try to address your questions with as little drama as possible:
How much more time should we, consumers, give Samsung...
- After you have exhausted all other remedies. In some cases, never. Were you aware of the issue in the time window when the product could still be returned or exchanged?
...before asking Feds to help us?
- There is no "Asking Feds" to help. You can file complaints with the FTC or maybe another federal organization, or with your state attorney general. As you probably know, your likely success in this area will be close to zero.
I personally would like to believe that consumers have rights, a concept that Samsung is not willing to accept
- you do have rights, but from a civil law perspective, what are your damages? Do you think a reasonable person on a jury would find Samsung liable for anything, when 98% of the phone functionality works just fine, and as for GPS, it works fine for some significant percentage of the consumers? You should be asking yourself what is your personal responsibility in this... did you keep the phone past the initial return period in hopes of a fix coming out? Did Samsung do due diligence and provide a fix eventually, that appears to have work for the vast majority of users? (Yes).
I know it frustrating, my device is the second one I had, the first one was crap, and this one the GPS works but is occasionally flaky. I'll get over it, and I have not relied on any assertions of Samsungs that caused irreparable harm. Generally, you cannot sue for grief (and while we as a country seem to have drifted that way, thank god that's still basically true). You will have this phone 1 to 3 years of what is hopefully a 80+ year life. You will make better buying decisions in the future, and do more due diligence when buying a phone. And this assumes you just don't sell this one on e-bay and buy another one.
So my long ramble is summarized, and aiming at all the other class action ninnies, into this one short sentence: "Get a life".
Mike (Who obviously has to much time on his hands today)

I'm confused by all of the people who complain about the GPS. Mine has always worked fine from stock through the latest ROM I am on. It seems like there are dozens of ways to fix the issue that have worked for many people. Are there still people out there who have exhausted every lead and STILL cannot get it to work? Whenever I read a complaint about GPS, people don't specify what they have tried and what has failed.

s15274n said:
I suppose the other thread with people whining was not adequate?
You didnt even address what you are upset about? I assume GPS.... which is funny since the VAST MAJORITY on here have absolutely no issues.
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I am seriously tired of seeing this response to people who are suffering with GPS issues to no avail. I don't really care about how the"vast majority" isn't having issues. I care about my phones issues. Obviously there are phones out there with a non functioning GPS. I am one of them, so is my wife. Even if 70%-80% of the phones had a functioning GPS that still leaves 20%-30% SOL.
Did I notice the GPS issue when I bought the device? Yes. Did I notice that a good number of others had the same problems? Yes. We were advised by tmobile to wait for a patch. The patch came well past the return date.
tl;dl
If your GPS is working that's great, that doesn't mean that everyone's is working. There are people that still have major GPS issues. If you don't like the complaints don't click on the thread.
I have tried all of the fixes btw. My wife and I still have extremely inconsistent performance and locking issues.

velocd said:
I am seriously tired of seeing this response to people who are suffering with GPS issues to no avail. I don't really care about how the"vast majority" isn't having issues. I care about my phones issues. Obviously there are phones out there with a non functioning GPS. I am one of them, so is my wife. Even if 70%-80% of the phones had a functioning GPS that still leaves 20%-30% SOL.
Did I notice the GPS issue when I bought the device? Yes. Did I notice that a good number of others had the same problems? Yes. We were advised by tmobile to wait for a patch. The patch came well past the return date.
tl;dl
If your GPS is working that's great, that doesn't mean that everyone's is working. There are people that still have major GPS issues. If you don't like the complaints don't click on the thread.
I have tried all of the fixes btw. My wife and I still have extremely inconsistent performance and locking issues.
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you should try AXURA if you havent, my GPS never worked until then, its a few feet off, but i dont mind that.
@OP, why is the only reason that you people think vibrants suck is the GPS?
WOOPTIDOO! a gps doesn't work.
Think of it this way, would you take a IPhone from which your calls would drop, and wouldn't be able to call anyone half the time? or not be able to use your dang brain to read the street names and figure out where your going.

...................

So basically the op didn't do his research before buying a product and now wants to cry foul. I bought my Vibrant in August, bought two, after researching it for a good two weeks. I compared it to most of the other offerings from all carriers with the exception of iPhone. I was fully aware of the gps issue before hand, very well documented. I even went so far as to have the work around sitting on my computer when I brought the thing home. One of the first things I did was apply the work around.
All that said maybe you should take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself who really needs to be blamed for you owning a product that doesn't work to the abilities that you think it should.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

And I'm REALLY tired of people coming to a development forum making posts about class action lawsuits.... Heaven forbid they use an existing thread (there was one on the very same page when the op created this thread).
There is nothing wrong with the vast majority, this can't be denied. There are a ton of ways to try and correct the problem.
H,eck send me your phone and I'll create a video of YOUR phone navigating me to the local bar so I can celebrate one less annoying "let's sue... For something" thread.

bigragu said:
I'm confused by all of the people who complain about the GPS. Mine has always worked fine from stock through the latest ROM I am on. It seems like there are dozens of ways to fix the issue that have worked for many people. Are there still people out there who have exhausted every lead and STILL cannot get it to work? Whenever I read a complaint about GPS, people don't specify what they have tried and what has failed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the OP is kind of a tool (yeah, the Feds are going to leap in and fix your phone...), these "My GPS works great!" posts are almost as ridiculous.
It isn't as if a bunch of us got together and pretended to have insurmountable GPS problems.
In my case, the GPS has become usable after the second Eclair update. My wife's still doesn't work but she doesn't use it, so she doesn't care. The other two in the house now work normally. So just in my house, we pretty much cover the range.
Just because it isn't affecting you doesn't mean the rest of us are merely delusional.
And since you asked, yeah, I have tried pretty much eveything that was suggested here on XDA, short of some of the more recent ROMS (which I don't want for a variety of other reasons).

xriderx66 said:
you should try AXURA if you havent, my GPS never worked until then, its a few feet off, but i dont mind that.
@OP, why is the only reason that you people think vibrants suck is the GPS?
WOOPTIDOO! a gps doesn't work.
Think of it this way, would you take a IPhone from which your calls would drop, and wouldn't be able to call anyone half the time? or not be able to use your dang brain to read the street names and figure out where your going.
Click to expand...
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So you recommend medication for a person with hardware problems. That says more about your condition than that of the person you're replying to.
Maybe people are upset because the Vibrant was advertised as having a GPS, and a GPS is a huge part of Android's functionality? Just because your GPS works, or because you don't use it, doesn't excuse you coming in here and acting like a jerk.

Col.Kernel said:
So you recommend medication for a person with hardware problems. That says more about your condition than that of the person you're replying to.
Maybe people are upset because the Vibrant was advertised as having a GPS, and a GPS is a huge part of Android's functionality? Just because your GPS works, or because you don't use it, doesn't excuse you coming in here and acting like a jerk.
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No. My GPS never worked until I found the Axura rom it worked on all 3 of my vibrants.
Try the rom if you want the GPS so dang much. Is all I'm saying.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This is not legal advice, but:
As far as a lawsuit goes, the best argument would be that product was "not fit for the particular purpose for which it was sold." Most jurisdictions have some form of breach of warranty laws that could provide the basis for a suit if the product was advertised or represented as having working gps. However, Samsung/T-Mobile would have the defense that when you purchased the phone, the gps didn't work but you kept it anyways (past the 14 or 30 day buyer's remorse period). In other words, by not returning it, you accepted the non-conforming goods.
As for the "Feds" stepping in, I wouldn't count on it. Your best bet would be to find an attorney that would take on a class action suit in hopes of a big fee award. Usually if there is any merit to a claim like this, attorneys are jumping at the chance to sue, b/c at the end of the day the settlement is usually something like pennies for the consumer, a promise by the company to play fair in the future and a big award of attorneys fees.
All that being said, I would think that if you sent Samsung/T-Mobile a well drafted demand letter under your jurisdiction's consumer protection laws, they would make an offer of a return or exchange of the phone to avoid the hassle. Better yet if you had an attorney friend that would do it for you.

Well, as someone with GPS issues, I'll say that something like a class action is largely useless.
I also think that "oh, just try another ROM", while valid in some cases, is also completely ridiculous. One shouldn't have to modify their phone and void a warranty in order to have functional hardware (note I've done both ).
I know it's frustrating. For me, no update or work around worked. I had to crack open my phone and bend up the contact on my GPS Antenna (which plenty of us are trying here) and now it works great. Is my SNR the strongest? No, it doesn't really go above 40. But I get 10-14 satellites to lock and it holds a signal even inside the house.
Yeah, it's insane to have a problem with something so basic on a smart phone these days. But the reality is that the vast majority of smart phone users never even turn on GPS. Out of the ones that do, a small percentage have issues. That means that there's only a small fraction of SGS users experiencing GPS issues and the people that tend to be the loudest are the ones that have problems. Samsung doesn't care. Neither would HTC or Motorola.
They also know that the average length of time the average user keeps a phone is 20 months. That number decreases with smart phones AND with people that are tinkerers. I'd imagine it would be a rarity for a lot of people here to keep a phone longer than 16-18 months. All of these manufacturers know that you'll move on to the next device long before you get a class action lawsuit going.
I may be an exception, but my time is worth more money than a class action over a device that is 97% functional.

"Plaintiff asserts that Defendant's product is 'laggy', as such term is commonly understood within the North American phone nerd community; and even the use of third-party measures such as 'Ryan's OCLF' did not transform the product into the 'buttery-smooth beast' that Plaintiff had intended to purchase..."

If you have tried the workarounds and have got all the current updates and your GPS is not working, walk into a T-Mobile store or call customer service and complain. Every day people are getting replacement phones and if they tell you that you are out of your return window, explain that you kept getting told to wait by your local rep.
This is a basic customer service issue, no need to get all bent out of shape. If yours doesn't work, ***** up a storm with T-Mobile for a replacement.

xriderx66 said:
No. My GPS never worked until I found the Axura rom it worked on all 3 of my vibrants.
Try the rom if you want the GPS so dang much. Is all I'm saying.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more and that was the point of my earlier post. I understand there are people who have issues that others don't. (I had the hardware lock issue). It just seems that there ARE ROMs out there that have fixed the problem. If you need GPS that bad (and I do), try them until you find one that works.

I jusy don't get peaple...Just call Tmobile and tell them your issue like some other user and they will replace your phone...

Pixel 2 XL bad press and forum experience

So I returned the 64GB XL that I originally ordered due to me not adding the preferred care and seeing all the quality control and screen issues. I reordered a 128 GB device with preferred care and cancelled. All the bad press, all the threads and posts about quality control issues, this being a "travesty" and other comments. I cancelled and reordered 5 times and I finally followed through with the purchase. But only on one condition. I wasn't going to look at articles, forums, videos or any sort of press regarding the device at all for a week. I had read about all the issues and was still weary about it when I received the device on the 26th. I set it up and the first thing I did was look for this blue tint. I have a VERY slight tint at extreme angles that I do not view of device from but it did not bother me a bit and did not interfere with my experience. So what did I do next? I used my phone as my daily driver and in the same manner that I did my $8+. Since the 26th, I have had no issues, and I can honestly say that I could not be more thrilled with this device. It is exactly what I was looking for. My first vanilla Android experience and it is amazing. So with that being said, let's get to the question. Has anyone else avoided the negative press and forums to get their own experience? Has anyone else come to the and conclusion that I have? I can't say that the phone is perfect. I can't say that every device is made equal. But I can say that if you are on the fence with your purchase, just buy it. Experience the device for yourself, form your own opinion. Keep in mind what you have learned from other's experiences, but really form your own opinion with your own experience and come share with us. If you don't like it, just return it. Thanks for the read everyone! If you like your device great! If it wasn't for you, I hope you find the device you're looking for. Have a great one everybody!

I ordered on day one and my phone was very blue at even a slight angle. I returned it and ordered another and I am very happy with it. the processor is a beast. battery and camera are the best there is. Software and features are way ahead of others and will stay there. You need to try it. Don't read or buy into the negative hype. Try it. If you don't like it returning the device is easy and costs nothing.

@MacTheRipperr
I didn't let it get me down. I pre-ordered on the 6th, got it the 28th, never returned it, and never cared about the press.
I don't care about random people's opinions, and I have no idea why everyone does. I figured once I got it, i would see if I like it, if not, I would return it and move on.
The media is and always will be full of ****, the same with the vast majority of people sadly. I still hear people run in their mouth about this device in telegram chats and online that never have nor will hold an xl2, at that rate, why would anyone take anything they say at face value? It's sad that people fall to peer pressure, and can't be big enough to make a decision for themselves, they have to follow the norm.
Anyways, my device like most others shifts colors at an angle, and it doesn't bother me. I always have and will use black themes while I'm on an oled device. You can't get this rich of black color which makes everything else pop on lcd.
Coming from a 6p, this phone is light years faster than it was, and the battery life I've had on stock with the stock kernel, has put all other devices I've had to shame. I couldn't be happier with the xl2

This phone ticked all the boxes I want/need and after the trade in plus the rebate from T-mobile I'd be stupid not to jump on it. While waiting all the complaints about the screen came in so I was curious to see what it would look like when I got it. Opened the box and turned the screen on, tilted it and said...."that's it???". I've been loving it since day one. Best phone I've ever had.

If anything the negative press had lowered my expectations some, so when I finally got my phone I was absolutely blown away by how great it is. I couldn't say if I had not read anything bad about the phone, whether or not my response would have been the same, but all I can say is that this is the best phone I have ever used (going from Nexus 5, to 6, to 6P, to 2XL)

I find it humorous that in advance of the iPhone X, Apple puts out a paper saying that burn-in and blue tint upon tilting device are normal for oled screens, and not a defect. I wonder if all the media sources that blasted the Pixel 2 XL for being a "mediocre" device because of those screen issues will be as hard on Apple as they were on Google?

I've read the articles and kept up with stuff, but I really just don't give a sh__, to be frank. Is there a blue tint at angle? Yup. Does it bother me? Nope. Is there screen burn in/retention? Don't know. (I have not seen anything and don't care about trying it out to see.) This phone is so freaking phenomenal, I can't believe that people steer clear over some bad press given by a bunch of YouTube reviewers that nit-pick everything with every phone ever made.
To prove my point on how little the everyday user cares, I showed 2 buddies of mine my 2 XL the other night. They both just recently got the iPhone 8+ and they've had Apple devices going back to the iPhone 6. Both of them played with my 2 XL for at least 15 minutes. Neither of them mentioned anything about the screen other than they said they loved the lack of huge bezels. Both commented on how blazingly fast it performed. They also loved how it listened for music and displayed what was playing automatically.
I'm happy with my 2 XL. If by some chance Google does some sort of recall, etc. I may go ahead and do that, but as of yet, I see no reason to RMA my phone.

Dang, OP. Nailed my experience, but in a different manner: Ordered during the event and got mine on the 20th. Also came from an S8+.
Have since stopped reading comments on popular Android tech sites due to the sheer vileness of them. Maybe it was present before and I just never noticed, but the comments sections are a total sh_tshow. I am embarrassed to be a part of a community that can treat each other so poorly.
I imagine someone new to the community going on to these sites and just being absolutely stunned by how petty and rude we must seem.
It's not just Pixel articles either; Samsung, HTC, LG.... It's unavoidable.
I like my S8+ and my 2 XL. I liked my V20. My son loves his V30 (and before that, his HTC 10). Why can't we seem to accept that they're all great devices? Why do we have to be so vile to each other?
Sorry... That went longer than I had planned...
/rant end

It's hands-on for me! Media suxes!!

MacTheRipperr said:
So I returned the 64GB XL that I originally ordered due to me not adding the preferred care and seeing all the quality control and screen issues. I reordered a 128 GB device with preferred care and cancelled. All the bad press, all the threads and posts about quality control issues, this being a "travesty" and other comments. I cancelled and reordered 5 times and I finally followed through with the purchase. But only on one condition. I wasn't going to look at articles, forums, videos or any sort of press regarding the device at all for a week. I had read about all the issues and was still weary about it when I received the device on the 26th. I set it up and the first thing I did was look for this blue tint. I have a VERY slight tint at extreme angles that I do not view of device from but it did not bother me a bit and did not interfere with my experience. So what did I do next? I used my phone as my daily driver and in the same manner that I did my $8+. Since the 26th, I have had no issues, and I can honestly say that I could not be more thrilled with this device. It is exactly what I was looking for. My first vanilla Android experience and it is amazing. So with that being said, let's get to the question. Has anyone else avoided the negative press and forums to get their own experience? Has anyone else come to the and conclusion that I have? I can't say that the phone is perfect. I can't say that every device is made equal. But I can say that if you are on the fence with your purchase, just buy it. Experience the device for yourself, form your own opinion. Keep in mind what you have learned from other's experiences, but really form your own opinion with your own experience and come share with us. If you don't like it, just return it. Thanks for the read everyone! If you like your device great! If it wasn't for you, I hope you find the device you're looking for. Have a great one everybody!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I preordered it and kept it.
Ive had a Galaxy Nexus Nexus 5 Nexus 6p and now the Pixel XL 2 I can tell you... You will never get a "perfect" phone from Google you just wont. But you dont get this phone because its perfect. You get it because you dont have to wait for updates from the carrier that will never come. You dont have to worry about the bootloader being locked. And you can pretty much count on the most developer support.
Everyone of the phones listed above had an "issue" blown way out of proportion.
Galaxy Nexus was battery life even leading to Verizon offering a extended battery
Nexus 5 had a screen issue where anything after the 1st batch had a yellow tint to the display. (I was lucky to get one of the good ones but then 3 months later my phone decided to not DL or send MMS at all no matter what i did. I had to RMA it and got a yellow tint phone. Oh and battery life issues.
Nexus 6p had screen issues and battery issues where the phone would shut down once the battery reached anywhere from 15% to 50% Oh there was also a software bug on only this phone where the phone would refuse to switch to LTE and the only way to make it do this was to go into the secret *#*4636*#*# and toggle the LTE radio. This was not fixed for 2 security updates
See you will never get a "perfect phone" from Google. Just like a lot of their products start out pretty ****ty and get better through several updates.

Well, I most definitely want to thank you guys for your feedback and being honest without the hostility. It's good to see that I am not alone in my experience. Thanks for replying with tact. We can only lead our fellow enthusiast by example. Thanks again for your responses.

I've had a horrible experience through all of this, I'm also a new member here, although I've been a lurker for years. BUT I pre-ordered, kept the order and received a P2XL that is blue straight on and gets worse at any angle. I RMA'd my device, new one will be here this friday/saturday. Thing is after a week I really love this phone and willing to try at least one more as it seems there is or was a quality issue but most here that have RMA'd are reporting they've gotten a better device back. I agree what another member posted about the rhetoric and the way people are treating each other but that's the interwebs these days. Also seems a bunch of people here received great devices to begin with (ANOTHER REASON TO ORDER ONE AND TRY IT YOURSELF) but unfortunately some of them just assume everyone's device is the exact same as theirs and some of them even deny there could be an issue saying "we see these things differently" and we should "just shut up or get a refund". Don't listen to them, don't really take much weight in what anyone says (including me) about their personal experience until you've had the exact same experience with the same device to relate to their issues posted. We're here to share our experiences with these devices with each other but for every 1 P2XL user here there are probably at least 4 or 5 if not more that are ecstatic to own these phones from Google. Remember most people who have issues go onto forums and websites to see if others are experiencing the same issues. So it becomes a breeding ground for every issue ever found on "x" device within "x" days of being released. Like what's been said here before, it's not just here, all manufacturers have issues with their devices and for me IMO the P2XL is what I want/need in a phone. Hopefully you'll order one up and give it a shot, you're truly missing out on an amazing experience with an amazing device.

You know things are desperate when people have to make "feel good" threads.
As for the validity of media or what else has been said here, this entire thread is pure conjecture and speculation made against others who disagree.
Im also not sure who this is directed at. The people who dont like/want this phone wont be here.
Neither will the people who returned them.
As for the point of the thread.
If you buy a device that costs a grand, might aswell demand no ISSUES.
Neither apples pathetic response to possible issues with the screen nor Google's "we are looking into it" imply a whole lot respect for the consumer or confindence for their devices.
You can like your device, you can claim its perfect, beautiful, whatever. But for this price, nothing short of perfection(as much as it can be achieved) should be demanded.
If im paying a grand, i dont want to be bothered by RMAs or other BS.
If they have QC issues, they are free to perhaps ship some jobs back to Europe/America. Im sure they have enough money to pay decent wages for people to QC their devices or produce them here.
If not, they should not expect mercy from the consumer or press, and yes this includes apple too
What a pathetic age we live in.

shadowcore said:
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If you buy a device that costs a grand, might aswell demand no ISSUES.
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You do know you're paying for more than hardware right? You don't really think you're getting a minimum of 3 years OS updates, a minimum of 3 years of monthly security updates, support help right on the device, and all that unlimited storage for nothing do ya.

shadowcore said:
If you buy a device that costs a grand, might aswell demand no ISSUES.
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Why not demand pink unicorns as well, since we're apparently asking for the impossible?
No device is without "issues". Not a one.
If you won't pay a grand for any non-perfect device, and no such device exists, you are basically claiming no device is worth a grand.
Welp...okay. it's a perfectly valid opinion. Thanks for sharing.

PhoenixPath said:
Why not demand pink unicorns as well, since we're apparently asking for the impossible?
No device is without "issues". Not a one.
If you won't pay a grand for any non-perfect device, and no such device exists, you are basically claiming no device is worth a grand.
Welp...okay. it's a perfectly valid opinion. Thanks for sharing.
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Do you believe any of the current issues would be present, if they had QC that actually was managed properly?
It cant be because of technology that the device costs this much, about a grand, in 2017.
Surely they can afford proper QC at an asking price of 1 grand.
Im not sure proper QC is like pink unicorns, but i guess people should just shut up.
A proper premium tier QC is pink unicorns. Im having the timw of my life now.
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------
AndrasLOHF said:
You do know you're paying for more than hardware right? You don't really think you're getting a minimum of 3 years OS updates, a minimum of 3 years of monthly security updates, support help right on the device, and all that unlimited storage for nothing do ya.
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Thats true, i wish only they provided a black skin/overlay for android.
Its 2017 and only custom roms offer amoled friendly UI.
Im not sureni value android updates when they offer no enhancements i need.

shadowcore said:
Do you believe any of the current issues would be present, if they had QC that actually was managed properly?
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QC doesn't stop issues from reaching the public. It limits them.
A certain number of bad devices will invariably get out in the market. This is unavoidable.
If you are trying to claim that it is avoidable, that any company could release a device and the public would not see a single failure, please - do tell; what fantastical device is it?
If you are trying to claim that *all* Pixel 2 XL devices are bad, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but if that is indeed the case, your opinion is not at all relevant to us.

PhoenixPath said:
QC doesn't stop issues from reaching the public. It limits them.
A certain number of bad devices will invariably get out in the market. This is unavoidable.
If you are trying to claim that it is avoidable, that any company could release a device and the public would not see a single failure, please - do tell; what fantastical device is it?
If you are trying to claim that *all* Pixel 2 XL devices are bad, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but if that is indeed the case, your opinion is not at all relevant to us.
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Pray tell, do you really believe issues such as blue tint or burn in wouldnt be caught by proper QC?
These issues are so obvious, even non-tech savy people can notice them.
And no, i didnt claim qc prevents all bad apples, but thw moat obvious ones. Way to strawman my point there.
All google needed to do, when noticing issues in QC , is hold off on the release date.
You can probably imagine how much i enjoyed last years fiasco with exploding batteries with samsung.
If anything, that was the epitome and parody of the flagship smartphone industry.
Imagine buying a porsche and getting one that had paint issues or an expensive mercedes with discolored glass.
If i wanted to gamble and try my luck, i would get an Oppo, not a pixel or samsung.

I agree with both you guys lol. IMO the issue is when testing Google from day 1 just looked past the blue tint and other issues thinking "This is the way it has to be" "it's a trade off" and software updates will fix it or it's just supposed to be like that. Hence the quality issues, if you tell your QC dept that it's supposed to look like that then they'll unfortunately let them all leave the factory like that. Probably why there's 50 shades of blue and no direct reasoning or answer from anyone as to why there's such a variance between the exact same devices produced on the same date even. BTW shadowcore is onto something I've been previously saying, yea there's shortcomings with any new device but it shouldn't be this bad all over the map with these things for the price they charge. And then attempted sweeping under the rug of it all, "working as intended" just to rub ya the wrong way after all that money spent whether you got 5 discounts or paid full retail. PRINCIPLE. This is top tier device I know it's been done before here but would you buy a brand new BMW/AUDI/LEXUS/MERCEDES and be just fine with creaking plastic crappy interior you sit in every time you drive? We need to interact with this screen every day all day for some people.

shadowcore said:
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Is their QC sub-par? Do they actually have more defective units than other vendors?
Is there anything other than the initial media coverage, now little more than background noise, that implies Google's devices see more defects in the market than others?
Or, as you just admitted in the last post, are you just super happy about any and all failures and maybe that is what is driving your fervor?
I mean, even if that's what it is, I get it. These companies make billions - watching them trip and fall, even if it's only in our perception, can be somewhat cathartic - is it really any more than that, though?