Related
Hey all,
a very short time ago - at least compared to most others here - I've have started playing with 'additional interfaces'. The Cube, PointUI, S2U2, HTC Album, additional helpers like FTouchFlo, etc.
These are all nice things, that goes without saying, and props to the devs. We got some really good software devs here, software hackers, tweaks, graphics guys, just good thinkers, etc.
Now what is the problem, you might ask. The problem is, it's all so very disconnected. Yes, you combine them all and make nice things, but setting it up isn't always easy (though some cooks do a great job of it), configuring it all to work nicely together is tiresome, the interfaces are not consistent with eachother, etc. We're all messing and mucking about as one man shows (or few men shows).
Now just think if we all put our efforts together, I think we could make the future ourselves.
Let's take gesturing for instance. Instead of how it works now, a general gesturing library could be made, which first off, provides more gestures, diagonals (instead of just horizontal/vertical), curves (like rotating in HTC Home), circles, etc. And now instead of just using these for general commands like now (keep that for unsupported apps), make this something each app or screen can configure/assign themselves. No more conflicts between different 'touch apps', and also very important, the gestures are the same, unlike the somewhat different gestures that are now used for the different apps.
Another thing is the interfaces. A consistent look (to the already consistant feel from above) would make the whole experience better. A general interface library could be made providing all the code for the transitions/animations, and interface parts like buttons. Everything graphical goes here, so we can all use it. Skinning everything would then also be a breeze.
With these two basic parts we could already go a long way, but the ultimate goal would be taking all the good of all projects, improve on those, and leave out the bad. For example, the cube is nice, but it's awfully limited. There could be a lot more in it. There's nothing special about HTC Album, it's just 'nicely done'.
I hope you can all imagine a bit what I mean with all the above (I try not to go into too much detail). We would all have to work together on this, but if we did, I'm quite sure we could build something that could completely replace the WM shell and would leave the iPhone as well as WM7 (if it ever comes) biting the dust. In the end, everybody who'd work on it may even get payed if we license it to a provider. I truely believe that the whole would be a lot bigger than the parts are now.
I'd expand more on 'my' vision (I'm sure other people have it as well), but it's not much use at this stage yet.
The furure is now, the future is XDA!
yess!! amen!! <3
anyway, why don't we all make open source apps? i mean i think it would be cool to make everyone work on one amazing thing..
It's an exciting notion for sure. I definitely have 100x more faith in the people here to come up with something worthwhile than I do in Microsoft, that's for sure.
That's the problem with the new applications: consistency.
personally I'd love to see pointUI release an API for its interface library. I think they have one of the most responsive and usable touchUIs. I posted this on their forum but didn't get a response.
I think this is a good idea as we have so many different gesturing projects reinventing the wheel. With a unified starting point, it could help new projects get off the ground faster.
Biggest problem: Not everybody is willing to share source codes.
Does anybody knows Xbox Media Center (XBMC) for the Xbox 1? Something like this for PPC would be the breakthrough imho..
Yes i totally agree. Having libraries that other developers can use is a great idea, or sharing code would be good. I made a post few days back about sharing the libraries but i didn't get any reply. I think i didn't make my point as clear as you
I am currently developing some apps (fringer friendly), but i am having lots of touble researching, developing POC, etc to make gestures, transitions and animations etc, which is really time consuming and takes more time from concentrating on the core functionalities of the applications.
So yes developing reusable libraries is definitly a great step that this forum can take.
Might i add, why dont we start a developers group here limited on devs who want to contribute with their code, idea to build these libraries? Where we can discuss the design and architecture of the libraries, export functions etc, needed controls etc.
We might also come up with great framwork that devs can use and sell it (as u mentioned). OpenNetCF did that, they created a large number of controls, .Net wrappers for Win32 APIs, etc, it started out as an opensource project, but then they started selling these their framework.
Hope other developers here become enthusiastic about this idea as we are
TacoLoco said:
Does anybody knows Xbox Media Center (XBMC) for the Xbox 1? Something like this for PPC would be the breakthrough imho..
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Click to collapse
I started working on an similar application sometime back but dropped it cause i didn't have much time and development resources (especially cool graphical effects) to do it. Actually it was more of the MS Media Center clone.
Well this is a great place to start... we can group together and start working on an application like that....
mrabie said:
Yes i totally agree. Having libraries that other developers can use is a great idea, or sharing code would be good. I made a post few days back about sharing the libraries but i didn't get any reply. I think i didn't make my point as clear as you
I am currently developing some apps (fringer friendly), but i am having lots of touble researching, developing POC, etc to make gestures, transitions and animations etc, which is really time consuming and takes more time from concentrating on the core functionalities of the applications.
So yes developing reusable libraries is definitly a great step that this forum can take.
Might i add, why dont we start a developers group here limited on devs who want to contribute with their code, idea to build these libraries? Where we can discuss the design and architecture of the libraries, export functions etc, needed controls etc.
We might also come up with great framwork that devs can use and sell it (as u mentioned). OpenNetCF did that, they created a large number of controls, .Net wrappers for Win32 APIs, etc, it started out as an opensource project, but then they started selling these their framework.
Hope other developers here become enthusiastic about this idea as we are
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are saying pretty much what I mean. Though the gesture thing wouldn't really be like a library, more like a service with an interface.
Anyway, setting up a dev group like this would IMHO be great (and I was thinking this myself) - we do need a larger group though. After all, if we don't want to, we don't have to share the source code, we can keep it in the group, or use a 'read-only' licence, or LGPL or something (though I'm personally not too fond of the GPL license).
I am convinced, that given enough time, I could do all of this myself. I am also convinced, that many other coders here could. But why should we?
WOW
well im no programmer or developer,just a guy with a titan, but I think you guys are talking about the perfect ui. sort of a modular system where the base ui has all the key functions and you could just plugin the core features of your choice without the need of base code for things like scrolling and gesture,etc... this makes me wonder why no ones done this yet. maybe I can learn abuot developing so I can help. incredible ui idea. thanx
I'm a designer and i'm in for this project!
Let's beat the crap out of the iphone and wm7!
Let us use the good parts from that interfaces and make it better, slicker, more beautifull!
gr. bram
Chainfire
i think there are more people getting interested in the idea... hope that more devs, designers gets interested too
Totally agree, maybe we should start getting the developers/designers (thanks bram_smulders!)/cookers and so on in this project...we could list apps, that are developed in and through this community and maybe - with a little moderation - the developers could agree on some standarts...i think that would be first step...
I'd be willing to help as well, I haven't done too much on the PPC. I've messed a little with the minshell and mintask examples in the wince6 sdk; they compile and run but don't function as expected btw.
help needed ?
Hi all, chainfire as said what i was thinking about thoses different and very nice UIs.
I'm not a developper, just a system IT, if i can help to beta-test the products of your project on my trinity..I'll do it w/ best feedback.
Hi,
I'm a french VB.net developper (even on WM, of course) and I can help that way. if u want !
let me know ( cyril [at] rebreyend {dot} com )
Input
I wouldn't mind working towards the goals outlined for a project like this. I'm especially fond of a gesture library of sorts, as well as a fully functional kinetic scrolling lib.
You can always PM if anything gets started .
I think also that instead of starting from scratch and make another PointUI Home we can try to expand an existing project... Maybe PointUI could have wrote a simili-SDK ? (or someone else ?)
I'll try to contact them, and come back here to tell how far i've been trashed
Anyone have an idea of who has already written something open source ?
P.S: Sorry for my english.
I am currently in the R of R&D for a new type of rpg card game I need a programmer to programme the apk as all the info needed will be supplied during the programming stage.
I am new to developing android games.
When the android market opens to canadian sellers I am offering up a permanent cut of the sales to whomever is chosen for the programming as updates will need to be made over time (aside from bug fixes).
anyone interested email me at: [email protected]
Go start reading the Android documentation and learn to do it yourself. Ideas are worth nothing in the game programming world. You can't ask someone to do all the work, and then give you most of the money.
/thread
Clarkster said:
Go start reading the Android documentation and learn to do it yourself. Ideas are worth nothing in the game programming world. You can't ask someone to do all the work, and then give you most of the money.
/thread
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Click to collapse
Ditto, if I were experienced enough to do a RPG, then I might be willing to help you. But you can bet that whoever would make it would put it on THEIR dev account & keep the profits to themselves, they did the work anyway.
Just sayin.
man, this thread is brilliant. hey guys ive got a game idea too, i need a dev too to all the coding and programming for me and in return i'll give you a cut. Just do the coding, developing, graphics and leave the rest to me.
I guess I wasn't clear with the request. Not all the programming is to be done by someone else and is not an Action RPG, Its a cardgame related to the CARD RPG genre, the difficulty is my programming is out of date and I am looking more for a mentor to watch over me and someone who is more familiar with the apk architecture. I could have easily taken a Poker game and shredded it for code and exceptions but that is a little more complicated. But I guess its easier to beat a person down verbally then inquire with decency.
Really
I've stop doing these kind of trade out because the person who owns the account will never show you the actual numbers.
There must be a way to work together on app development, even if only one of them has access to the market account. For instance, you could add a certificate mechanism in the program that adds the other party into the application activation process?
Anyway, if you're willing to pay the dev his/her commercial hourly rate I'm sure you can work out a deal.
Such an odd thread - I wonder how many developers working for the big games houses expect to own all the code they are paid to write. Oh, wait... Yeah, fundamental flaw in certain replies here I guess?
rTiGd2 said:
Such an odd thread - I wonder how many developers working for the big games houses expect to own all the code they are paid to write. Oh, wait... Yeah, fundamental flaw in certain replies here I guess?
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Click to collapse
I get paid a salary for the code I write for my employer. The OP isn't offering a salary.
Just because he/she lacks the resources to provide a salary (or fixed rate) doesn't really open the doors for such mocking replies though. After all, there are many good/great ideas from people who lack the ability to produce them, the same as there are many great developers who lack the ideas for something to write.
At the end of the day, every project has to start somewhere and this could be with funding in place, developing and idea to obtain funding, or starting something as a team of individuals who agree how to split revenue from a final product.
For example, the comment that 'ideas are worth nothing' implies that every great gaming idea came from a developer. If that were the case, game design positions wouldn't exist.
This is me: college kid, no developing experience whatsoever (unless you could a basic HTML course in like 9th grade... lol), relatively intelligent, interested in technology.
What do I need to learn?
I found a "java 101" article to read here: Learn Java from the ground up - JavaWorld
Is android just Java or is there any other kind of language..? I've heard something about C++? or is that part of Java?
As you can tell, I'm a noob lol.
Then I read that I need Eclipse (what does that do again?), which one should I get (I'm on a Mac): Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers, Eclipse IDE for Java Developers, or Eclipse Classic 3.6?
Is this a bad idea considering I know nothing? Like am in way over my head?
Any other ideas or links anyone can share?
I made this same post on a different forum, and someone told me that XDA was a great place to learn programming and such.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
Oh and can I program without a problem from OS X or should I use bootcamp and do it all under Windows 7?
This is me: high school kid who is a noob Java programmer.
1. Learn Java. That's what Android apps are written in (I think).
2. C++ is a different language. Don't think it's of use here.
3. Eclipse for Java Dev.
4. Embrace your Mac.
I'm in much the same boat you are. I went and grabbed a book called, "Android Application Development" from my local book store tonight (oreilly.com). I am not endorsing the book yet as I'm only a few pages in and it was the only Android book at the store. There was not a single book on Java. I'll be turning to the many many web sites available for that until I get a solid recommendation for a book from someone.
The only thing I've ever done that's even remotely close is built SQL databases, reports and queries which I now manage as a cardiac researcher. I have no classes or anything else useful other than I know my way around PCs enough to build them and install my own OS's.
The advice in the book for the dev environment is:
1. JDK 5 or 6 and the book says that OSX comes with 5.
2. Eclipse IDE for Java Developers for your OS. Get the latest version (which defaulted as such for me for Vista 64).
3. The Android SDK.
After the above, there are some steps to take a look at on the Android SDK site. Follow those and read it all. I'm pretty sure I'm just a person of average intelligence and I think I have a handle on getting to where I can start working and the Hello World bit seems to make sense right now. We'll see how things go as I learn more of the Java syntax.
Good luck!
I would love any advice on sites/books for a non-programmer to start to get a grip on Java and creating an Android app in general. I have some plans for some specific medical uses for my job and I have always been interested in writing programs. Seems like a great time to start.
For Java, a good place to start (other than the Sun site itself) is JavaRanch. I'm too new to post links, but the URL is easy to figure out, and a quick search would turn it up as well. The site has lots of information, links to book reviews for Java, forums and so on. It was a good resource when I was studying Java in college!
Good luck!
nebulosity said:
For Java, a good place to start (other than the Sun site itself) is JavaRanch. I'm too new to post links, but the URL is easy to figure out, and a quick search would turn it up as well. The site has lots of information, links to book reviews for Java, forums and so on. It was a good resource when I was studying Java in college!
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks much! I found an Intro to Programming with Java class at the local community college here but it doesn't start until Sept. =/ That site looks good though, hopefully I can find a book that seems to fit.
(edit: the following assumes you've more or less mastered Java already; I really don't know what to recommend for someone who's trying to learn Java AND Android programming simultaneously. I suspect part of the reason for the lack of books for THAT niche is due to the fact that it's more or less impossible to take any programming class in college that doesn't either involve Java or have it as a non-negotiable prerequisite, even if Java per se isn't directly relevant. It's just part of the baseline cultural background noise).
If you buy nothing else, buy "Beginning Android 2" by Mark Murphy. If you're not totally broke, buy "Pro Android 2" by Sayed Hashimi while you're at it. Don't try to skip the first and go straight to the second... there's a lot of medium-level stuff that's covered thoroughly in "Beginning" that's barely touched upon in "Pro".
Those two books aren't great if you like to jump around and learn things in random order as need arises, but they're probably the gold standard right now for books that comprehensively teach Android Programming in a sensible order from start to finish.
"Professional Android 2 Application Development" by Reto Meier is a great complement to those books, because it IS more of a "jump around and grab important details as the need to learn them arises" book. I refer to all three on a regular basis.
"Hello, Android" is one of those books that you'll probably never look at again two weeks after you first start reading it... but if cash isn't really a problem, it's a nice tutorial for brand new Android developers.
Content-wise, the pdf commonsware.com books by Mark Murphy (yeah, the same Mark Murphy who wrote the Apress book) are probably the best of all, because they literally ARE updated regularly as typos & bugs get found (every book has 'em, few books ever usefully fix 'em) and new versions of Android get released. The problem is, unless you have an ebook reader, let's be honest... ebooks kind of suck. Sometimes, a real book is nice to have. So, I'd say Murphy's books kind of break new ground between online articles and real books... they go into a lot more depth, more coherently, than any one online source of info about Android programming... but unfortunately, because they're ebooks, they're about as pleasant to casually read as those same online articles.
18 months from now, when Android tablets with 1280x720(*) displays or better are common and relatively cheap, eBooks are going to be the norm for Android books going forward, because THEN they'll let you have the best of all worlds -- the coherent editing and comprehensive content of "real" books, the up-to-date accuracy of the best online sources of info, and a reading experience that doesn't kind of suck. Five years from now (when the eBook experience has finally become civilized), I'll be shocked if programming books even exist anymore in printed form, aside from maybe books like "${Language}: How to Program" that deal with topics that don't really change radically from month to month and are more or less universal as college textbooks. Programming and system administration are the kind of topics that are really too volatile for paper books, and for they most part they've ALWAYS been... there just hasn't really been a civilized alternative to them. IMHO, Android tablets will be what finally make it a civilized experience, because for the first time normal people (meaning developers who don't work for huge corporate entities like Amazon and Sony) will be able to develop ebook apps with their own UI experiments. Right now, all we have are devices optimized for reading mass-market top-20 fiction... devices that largely suck for the specific task of reading (and referring to) programming books (where you generally flip around a lot, and 700ms latency every time you change a page will drive you insane in 3 minutes).
So, in summary, here's my recommended buying order:
If cash is abundant and you want a nice intro: Hello, Android (latest edition)
Absolutely mandatory: Beginning Android 2
Equally mandatory, but maybe a few weeks later: Pro Android 2
then, it's a toss-up between a commonsware "Warescription" for Murphy's other books (which gives you access to the latest and greatest versions of them for a year, plus perpetual ownership the last copies you downloaded before the year ran out) and Meier's book (if you really hate ebooks). Personally, I'd recommend the Warescription AND Meier's book
(*)1280x720 is the rock-bottom minimum resolution viable for comfortably reading an O'Reilly-Manning-sized book in pdf form two pages at a time. 800x480 is just a hair below the resolution you really need to comfortably read ONE O'Reilly-Manning sized page at a time.
bitbang3r said:
<snip>
18 months from now, when Android tablets with 1280x720(*) displays or better are common and relatively cheap, <snip>
So, in summary, here's my recommended buying order:
If cash is abundant and you want a nice intro: Hello, Android (latest edition)
Absolutely mandatory: Beginning Android 2
Equally mandatory, but maybe a few weeks later: Pro Android 2
then, it's a toss-up between a commonsware "Warescription" for Murphy's other books (which gives you access to the latest and greatest versions of them for a year, plus perpetual ownership the last copies you downloaded before the year ran out) and Meier's book (if you really hate ebooks). Personally, I'd recommend the Warescription AND Meier's book
(*)1280x720 is the rock-bottom minimum resolution viable for comfortably reading an O'Reilly-Manning-sized book in pdf form two pages at a time. 800x480 is just a hair below the resolution you really need to comfortably read ONE O'Reilly-Manning sized page at a time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bolded above is the exact reason I am learning. I need to be able to write my own app for the upcoming tablets. We are planning to move a lot of document work to tablets over the next few years in the medical industry and the existing product lines are hilariously and prohibitively expensive. Since I already work extensively with our privacy laws and and regulations, I'm fairly sure that I can get a working solution for us over the next three years instead of investing millions of dollars in proprietary systems.
Thank you SO much for this advice. I'm ordering Beginning Android tonight and will pick up the other suggestions about halfway through the first book. My class will start in September. If you happen to have any other suggestions that might ease my way into programming concepts in general I would also appreciate those. Again, thanks a ton for the great advice.
Yeah i hear ya man. I took Java Programming in my senior year of highschool and got an A in it. So i know im capable for doing android, but im still finding my way around. hopefully one day i can actually do it! I hope!
bitbang3r said:
(edit: the following assumes you've more or less mastered Java already; I really don't know what to recommend for someone who's trying to learn Java AND Android programming simultaneously. I suspect part of the reason for the lack of books for THAT niche is due to the fact that it's more or less impossible to take any programming class in college that doesn't either involve Java or have it as a non-negotiable prerequisite, even if Java per se isn't directly relevant. It's just part of the baseline cultural background noise).
If you buy nothing else, buy "Beginning Android 2" by Mark Murphy. If you're not totally broke, buy "Pro Android 2" by Sayed Hashimi while you're at it. Don't try to skip the first and go straight to the second... there's a lot of medium-level stuff that's covered thoroughly in "Beginning" that's barely touched upon in "Pro".
Those two books aren't great if you like to jump around and learn things in random order as need arises, but they're probably the gold standard right now for books that comprehensively teach Android Programming in a sensible order from start to finish.
"Professional Android 2 Application Development" by Reto Meier is a great complement to those books, because it IS more of a "jump around and grab important details as the need to learn them arises" book. I refer to all three on a regular basis.
"Hello, Android" is one of those books that you'll probably never look at again two weeks after you first start reading it... but if cash isn't really a problem, it's a nice tutorial for brand new Android developers.
Content-wise, the pdf commonsware.com books by Mark Murphy (yeah, the same Mark Murphy who wrote the Apress book) are probably the best of all, because they literally ARE updated regularly as typos & bugs get found (every book has 'em, few books ever usefully fix 'em) and new versions of Android get released. The problem is, unless you have an ebook reader, let's be honest... ebooks kind of suck. Sometimes, a real book is nice to have. So, I'd say Murphy's books kind of break new ground between online articles and real books... they go into a lot more depth, more coherently, than any one online source of info about Android programming... but unfortunately, because they're ebooks, they're about as pleasant to casually read as those same online articles.
18 months from now, when Android tablets with 1280x720(*) displays or better are common and relatively cheap, eBooks are going to be the norm for Android books going forward, because THEN they'll let you have the best of all worlds -- the coherent editing and comprehensive content of "real" books, the up-to-date accuracy of the best online sources of info, and a reading experience that doesn't kind of suck. Five years from now (when the eBook experience has finally become civilized), I'll be shocked if programming books even exist anymore in printed form, aside from maybe books like "${Language}: How to Program" that deal with topics that don't really change radically from month to month and are more or less universal as college textbooks. Programming and system administration are the kind of topics that are really too volatile for paper books, and for they most part they've ALWAYS been... there just hasn't really been a civilized alternative to them. IMHO, Android tablets will be what finally make it a civilized experience, because for the first time normal people (meaning developers who don't work for huge corporate entities like Amazon and Sony) will be able to develop ebook apps with their own UI experiments. Right now, all we have are devices optimized for reading mass-market top-20 fiction... devices that largely suck for the specific task of reading (and referring to) programming books (where you generally flip around a lot, and 700ms latency every time you change a page will drive you insane in 3 minutes).
So, in summary, here's my recommended buying order:
If cash is abundant and you want a nice intro: Hello, Android (latest edition)
Absolutely mandatory: Beginning Android 2
Equally mandatory, but maybe a few weeks later: Pro Android 2
then, it's a toss-up between a commonsware "Warescription" for Murphy's other books (which gives you access to the latest and greatest versions of them for a year, plus perpetual ownership the last copies you downloaded before the year ran out) and Meier's book (if you really hate ebooks). Personally, I'd recommend the Warescription AND Meier's book
(*)1280x720 is the rock-bottom minimum resolution viable for comfortably reading an O'Reilly-Manning-sized book in pdf form two pages at a time. 800x480 is just a hair below the resolution you really need to comfortably read ONE O'Reilly-Manning sized page at a time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, thanks a ton! I'll be sure I pick up those 4 things later on.
Since I wrote the original post in this thread a couple days ago, I've spent some time trying to learn Java. As a total noob to programming, this has proven to be quite a challenge. Just about every book or eBook I see (A couple "java for dummies", "eclipse for dummies", "thinking in java", and I'm about halfway through the free sample of VTC's Java: Introduction to the Java Programming Language, which is an audio/video presentation thing) says that prior programming knowledge is necessary or that I should have some basis in C or something like that.
Also, there's command line as well as all of the different IDEs.. I'm assuming that these are all mainly interchangeable or what?
Should I just continue trying to learn Java and once I think I've figured it out just move on to Android or do you guys think I won't be able to get by without taking some sort of a programming class in school?
Thanks for all your help guys! By the way, how long do you think it might take to go from a noob to someone who can actually write an Android app?
for those of us that might be a bit hard up on cash http://developer.android.com/index.html
has a wealth of free information and sample programs. CHECK IT OUT!
Hello all, nice conversation that hasn't been diverted yet so I think I shall make a small contribution to this.
Programming courses and books that you can buy are a good way of learning but is not always an option due to mainly money constraints luckily we have this thing called internet , it has never been easier to learn programming than it is at the moment the plethora of resources available is absolutely incredible the only problem might be in finding things in a structured and well ordered way.
One of the tricks I've used in the past is to look up books that either get recommended or you like the look of and then find the index listing for that book which is usually given away free by sites selling books, then all you need to do is Google for the given topics =o)
As for learning Java to get started on the path to Android application building I think the biggest issue most people will be facing is that they find Java books but none of them seem to be making anything exciting, the problem is to make exciting things you really need to know a fair bit more about developing.
So that having been said I think as a short check list for someone looking to go from zero programming experience to developing their first android apps I would recommend something like this:
1. Go and read about Object Oriented Programming model
You won't fully grasp all the concepts straight away without having done any programming but it is good idea to get this stuff into your head straight away as it will start making more sense once you've learned a bit and then makes it easier to later on come back to this and get the lovely eureka! moments. Good place to start could be something as simple as Wikipedia.
2. Write console applications
By this I mean little java applications that you will be running from the command line on your computer. This is where most people I think get discouraged as they can't see how this relates to Android development.
Forget about graphics, user input, mobile devices etc for now, you can learn so much by writing these:
-Basic types & Variables
-Arrays
-Basic arithmetic and working with strings
-Loop structures
-Logic such as IF statements
-Creating new classes and objects
-Calling functions and returning values
Now all of the above will be used over and over and over again no matter whatever you are writing and the good thing is that it can all be learned by learning 1 additional non android specific thing: how to print out text to command line.
A good example application that you can write that uses most of the above would be a simple application you run from the command line, it fills an array with randomly generated integers between 1 and 20, lets say it generates 10 of them and then displays them to you in the order of smallest to highest.
No user input required, no graphics required etc, its not the most exciting thing but it will get you using all the basic building blocks.
3. Revisit the object oriented model
Do this again as it is pretty vital you understand it and after completing step 2 it will start making a whole lot more sense.
4. Install Eclipse and complete the Hello World tutorial on the android site:
There are plenty of guides on how to install the Android SDK and Eclipse environment and the best ones are from Google themselves. Follow them, if something doesn't work, try and figure out why it doesn't and then search for it, chances are that someone has already figured out why and you've just missed something.
Then complete this tutorial: http://developer.android.com/resources/tutorials/hello-world.html
5. Modify the Hello World tutorial:
Don't get ahead of yourself and start writing your killer app now, start slowly modifying the Hello World tutorial, learn how to display a piece of text from your application.
Now do everything you did with Step 2 but do it all on the Android app.
Visit this list but don't get too stuck with it:
http://developer.android.com/resources/faq/commontasks.html
6. Complete the Notepad tutorial:
If you've blindly followed my steps/similar steps this will be difficult and you should spend a good while dissecting all of it. The tutorial is actually excellent and touches on everything you pretty much need to write a fully functioning application. Don't go for the way of downloading sample source blindly following the tutorial, compiling in the end and then checking this as done.
I bet there are million things you won't understand about it so just keep going through it line by line and when you understand how it works, make it your own, start adding features to it, just silly things but do it =o)
7. Read, Read, Read & Start small.
You should now be at a point where you can start thinking about why you originally wanted to develop for android, if its a simple app you wanted to make start reading about topics that are specific to your app. Also this is a perfect time now to pick up an android application development book, up until this point all the free information has been as good as if not better than books.
If you want to make a game...be prepared to be spending atleast 2-3 times as long as you have to this point before it becomes even viable.
And final piece: Start small, for your first app don't start writing a full fledged facebook killer android social networking location based interactive photo editing physics calculator, do something simple and gradually build up to bigger projects...trust me on that =o(.
Anyhoo bored at work as you can probably tell, hope the above is a good outline for someone thinking of undertaking Android development if they have no previous experience. I don't mean to put people off just be prepared to spend a LONG time with this, it's not overly difficult but if you haven't done development before the sheer amount of new concepts you will have to understand from early on and WELL is very daunting.
.FxN
1. Install required components
* For Java use the latest version
* Android SDK
Once downloaded extract the folder to one of the PATH for example E: \ android_sdk_windows
* To Eclipse used Eclipse 3.5 (Galileo)
2. Add the Android platform and other packages needed to SDK
* SDK Run Setup.exe
* In the Available Packages menu to select all the packages downloaded
* select Install Selected and then select the Accept All to accept the selected packages
* select Install Accepted , Choose Install to install packages that we want to SDK
* Set the path to the Android SDK directory, by opening the Control Panel and then click on mycomputer system or right click and select Properties. Then on the Advanced tab select Environment Variables, click Edit on the path then input the Android SDK directory path
3. Install Android Development Tools (ADT)
fxn said:
Hello all, nice conversation that hasn't been diverted yet so I think I shall make a small contribution to this.
Programming courses and books that you can buy are a good way of learning but is not always an option due to mainly money constraints luckily we have this thing called internet , it has never been easier to learn programming than it is at the moment the plethora of resources available is absolutely incredible the only problem might be in finding things in a structured and well ordered way.
One of the tricks I've used in the past is to look up books that either get recommended or you like the look of and then find the index listing for that book which is usually given away free by sites selling books, then all you need to do is Google for the given topics =o)
As for learning Java to get started on the path to Android application building I think the biggest issue most people will be facing is that they find Java books but none of them seem to be making anything exciting, the problem is to make exciting things you really need to know a fair bit more about developing.
So that having been said I think as a short check list for someone looking to go from zero programming experience to developing their first android apps I would recommend something like this:
1. Go and read about Object Oriented Programming model
You won't fully grasp all the concepts straight away without having done any programming but it is good idea to get this stuff into your head straight away as it will start making more sense once you've learned a bit and then makes it easier to later on come back to this and get the lovely eureka! moments. Good place to start could be something as simple as Wikipedia.
2. Write console applications
By this I mean little java applications that you will be running from the command line on your computer. This is where most people I think get discouraged as they can't see how this relates to Android development.
Forget about graphics, user input, mobile devices etc for now, you can learn so much by writing these:
-Basic types & Variables
-Arrays
-Basic arithmetic and working with strings
-Loop structures
-Logic such as IF statements
-Creating new classes and objects
-Calling functions and returning values
Now all of the above will be used over and over and over again no matter whatever you are writing and the good thing is that it can all be learned by learning 1 additional non android specific thing: how to print out text to command line.
A good example application that you can write that uses most of the above would be a simple application you run from the command line, it fills an array with randomly generated integers between 1 and 20, lets say it generates 10 of them and then displays them to you in the order of smallest to highest.
No user input required, no graphics required etc, its not the most exciting thing but it will get you using all the basic building blocks.
3. Revisit the object oriented model
Do this again as it is pretty vital you understand it and after completing step 2 it will start making a whole lot more sense.
4. Install Eclipse and complete the Hello World tutorial on the android site:
There are plenty of guides on how to install the Android SDK and Eclipse environment and the best ones are from Google themselves. Follow them, if something doesn't work, try and figure out why it doesn't and then search for it, chances are that someone has already figured out why and you've just missed something.
Then complete this tutorial:
5. Modify the Hello World tutorial:
Don't get ahead of yourself and start writing your killer app now, start slowly modifying the Hello World tutorial, learn how to display a piece of text from your application.
Now do everything you did with Step 2 but do it all on the Android app.
Visit this list but don't get too stuck with it:
6. Complete the Notepad tutorial:
If you've blindly followed my steps/similar steps this will be difficult and you should spend a good while dissecting all of it. The tutorial is actually excellent and touches on everything you pretty much need to write a fully functioning application. Don't go for the way of downloading sample source blindly following the tutorial, compiling in the end and then checking this as done.
I bet there are million things you won't understand about it so just keep going through it line by line and when you understand how it works, make it your own, start adding features to it, just silly things but do it =o)
7. Read, Read, Read & Start small.
You should now be at a point where you can start thinking about why you originally wanted to develop for android, if its a simple app you wanted to make start reading about topics that are specific to your app. Also this is a perfect time now to pick up an android application development book, up until this point all the free information has been as good as if not better than books.
If you want to make a game...be prepared to be spending atleast 2-3 times as long as you have to this point before it becomes even viable.
And final piece: Start small, for your first app don't start writing a full fledged facebook killer android social networking location based interactive photo editing physics calculator, do something simple and gradually build up to bigger projects...trust me on that =o(.
Anyhoo bored at work as you can probably tell, hope the above is a good outline for someone thinking of undertaking Android development if they have no previous experience. I don't mean to put people off just be prepared to spend a LONG time with this, it's not overly difficult but if you haven't done development before the sheer amount of new concepts you will have to understand from early on and WELL is very daunting.
.FxN
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh wow. This is great! Thanks a ton for taking the time to write all of that, I'm gonna go get started
I've already touched upon many of those things thanks to free ebooks and youtube tutorials and such, but now I know exactly what to do
Quick question though: what's the "notepad tutorial" ?
thanks again!
and @learnandroid, thank you as well for the instructions. i have eclipse set up now
A nice java book that I recommend is called Java Programming, comprehensive edition.
fichdak said:
Quick question though: what's the "notepad tutorial" ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't yet post links, but just Google "Android notepad tutorial" - it's the first hit.
They take you through 3 different versions of the app, each slightly more complicated than the last. Definitely worth going through if you're new.
XDA has always been a fantastic community and you guys are the reason. Thank you for the thoughtful and very much appreciated advice and help.
I'm having a great time already. I really hope I can get into the class but it's already full with a waiting list. The books, tutorials and great resources are of course great but I have always liked to do new stuff with groups. I tend to learn more with some group goals involved along with the focused study.
Thanks again guys.
http://www.linuxclassroom.com/
This guy in San Antonio started an Android programming class for 8th graders and posted all of his lesson plans online. Might be a good place to start.
fichdak said:
Quick question though: what's the "notepad tutorial" ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry forgot to post the link: http://developer.android.com/resources/tutorials/notepad/index.html
.FxN
Great Thread full of info.
I have tried learning C# and Java on my own in the past but I could never grasp the concept and gave up.
I had an opportunity to go back to school full-time with programming in mind. I started last spring taking Software Development which teaches basic concepts of programming. Now I am starting my second semester in the fall taking intro to Java and c++ followed by advanced Java and c++ in the spring .
I hope I can transfer the knowledge from school along with the info provided in this Thread to build quality android applications in the future.
Thanks
-Bri
I know it's geographically limited to a small subset of the people here, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that UC Santa Cruz actually has courses in Android Development (part of their certificate in embedded software development curriculum). However, I think it's safe to assume that a solid background in Java (including objects and threading) is a prerequisite. Anyone who lives within sane driving distance of Silicon Valley might want to check them out...
I definitely have to agree that if you're literally just starting with Java, don't even *think* about touching Swing until you're comfortable writing console apps. It's really easy to get overwhelmed by Swing. For the most part, Android programming isn't really harder than good Swing programming... the difference is, with Swing, you can still get away with doing some things that are bad, but will kind of work anyway (like blocking operations by a UI thread). Android simply won't tolerate or allow you to even *try*. It's good in the long run (I guess), but makes writing your first few real programs a lot harder than you probably expect it to be.
For example, Android won't allow classic "Modal" dialog boxes (where everything grinds to a halt until the user clicks something). Period, end of story. You really shouldn't do it anyway, but being allowed to do it in Swing makes it easier to take your first few baby steps and see your program (sort of) work. With Swing, you can staple the shell of your program together with bad things, then fix them and make them nice once the logic is worked out. With Android, you have to Do It Right the First Time, because it won't allow you to do it any other way.
Sorry if this has been posted but I couldn't find one and if posted in wrong section
Im trying to become a developer but I am stuck at hello android and don't know what to do from there if anyone can show me a way to develop apps easily please help out and this is my first post too =]
Sent from my overclocked Cyanogenmod htc evolution 4g sucka
cesarcerros31 said:
Sorry if this has been posted but I couldn't find one and if posted in wrong section
Im trying to become a developer but I am stuck at hello android and don't know what to do from there if anyone can show me a way to develop apps easily please help out and this is my first post too =]
Sent from my overclocked Cyanogenmod htc evolution 4g sucka
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're stuck getting Hello Android to work or whate to do after hello android? Do you know any development languages such as Java or C#? (you'll be writing android apps in java, but C# is really MS version of java with a few syntax differences) If not, are you familiar with object orientation? If not, it's gonna be tough dude but if you're smart and pick stuff up quickly you can learn by reading.
Pick up some books and look at youtube videos.
Sent while sitting on the toilet.
Alright thanks its just that helloandroid project wouldn't start right but I will look up massively on how to start a different way or just try to find the solution and youtube always helps and anyone knows how to make roms looking to make aosp
Sent from my overclocked Cyanogenmod htc evolution 4g sucka
There's a few free Eclipse and Java books out there that a beginner will understand especially if you already understand the concepts of object-oriented programming. Eclipse IDE itself will need a book as it's full of plugins and tools you need to understand to compile your project effectively.
It's going to be a very very long and slow road.
This may help, a series of YouTube videos for beginners.
http://eclipsetutorial.sourceforge.net/totalbeginner.html
I've been thinking the same thing, learning to develop for Android. Since I have near zero experience programming (save for a VB class in college) I decided I would be better off hiring someone to write what I want.
Just keep in mind though, Hello World is just where people start.
You may want to check out the android Appinventor. It's made by Google, and is in beta testing now, but it's a graphical way of programming for android. Though there isn't any code involved and won't be good/used outside of Android, it does a good job imparting the logic of programming.
I'll give you some tips that I've learned over the years as a developer.
First if you haven't done any development before I highly advise obtaining a book. True there are tons of web tutorials out there but personally I find a good author can do wonders in learning how to develop software. Anytime I want to learn a new platform I pick up a book on that platform. Of course you can find a ton of books used but another great source is a library. If you're in college with a computer science program chances are your library will have a couple of books on Android development. Your public library probably has some books on the subject as well. If all else fails see if you have a friend who will loan you a book.
Reading about development is only part one, part two is hands on. You can read an entire book on developing software and walk away with no knowledge. You can mindlessly follow the examples in the book but I find it best to use the examples in books as a guideline. In other words take the idea in the book and morph it so you're working on something original. Trust me here, you'll learn a lot more doing this instead of just mindlessly following the examples.
Next thing you'll need is a problem. Why? Because you need something to write. I find myself most motivated to write software when I either have a problem or something else has one and a checkbook. What do you want your phone to do? Are there applications out there that solve your problem but you think you can do better? Think small and easy since you're still new. Realistically you're not going to be able to make a web browser from scratch as your first project but you can certainly make a database of movies you own.
One thing that is debatable is whether you should learn to write something quickly or well. Frankly I'm in the school or writing something quickly and ignoring "correctness" when you're new. People new to programming spend too much time worrying about doing things "correctly" (very important when you're developing actual software) instead of learning how to do things in the first place.
Your code may not be readable, may not be optimized, and may crash every time an invalid input is entered into a field but you'll learn from those things. I think most people who end up hating programming do so because they spent too much time on worry about the little things and thus seeing no results for their work. Once you have the basics down you can concentrate of the details of optimizing code, validating inputs, and making your code readable.
Honestly not matter what you write you'll look back at it in embarrassment ten years from now anyways.
Ok thanks will look for a book
Sent from my overclocked Cyanogenmod htc evolution 4g sucka
cesarcerros31 said:
Ok thanks will look for a book
Sent from my overclocked Cyanogenmod htc evolution 4g sucka
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy a Java book that also covers Object Orientation basics and principals. (you'll also need to understand some XML to do android programming) If you want to make kernels/ROMS, definitely look into Linux and shell scripting. (you can find most of this info online though)
By the way, I heard the "Java in 24 hours" book is pretty good.
Sirchuk said:
By the way, I heard the "Java in 24 hours" book is pretty good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it might be good, but it wont teach him how to actually code. Most of those books are made for people that know other languages like javascript/php/c/etc.. and are wanting to move to java and learn the new syntax.
I have no idea as to what you know. So ftw.
Write what ever you decide in a pseudo code, first.
Two things will fall out of that, a design, and java methods of implementing the pseudo language ( as you decide what java syntax does your psuedo code) which invariably returns you to (1) the design. I think it's called iterational refinement, or some such other bs.
So don't get bogged down, now that you know hello, make it start "right"...
You all do realize that eclipse was a machine.. a sunny>dg joke.
Hello everybody.
Various game concepts have been springing up in my mind lately and I am starting to think that I should make them a reality: that's one of the reasons why I bought OUYA.
Problem is...
I know absolutely NOTHING about programming, but I am eager to learn. Does anybody know how should I begin (besides of course getting a good Java manual, which I plan to do ASAP)?
Thank you in advance.
Pretty much just learn as much Java as you can and then start with the tutorials on the Android website. I've done very little Android programming though...very little.
There is a couple ways you can go. You can either use java code with the sdk, or C++ using the ndk. Java will be much easier to use, but because it utilizes a garbage collector, you need a slightly higher understanding of how the code works to write fast running code. C++ is more difficult to learn, especially for a beginner, but because you manage memory manually you have complete control over how your game runs. I would recommend starting with java. There is a good book called Beginning Android Game Development which is published by APress, that covers all the basics.
timkd127 said:
There is a couple ways you can go. You can either use java code with the sdk, or C++ using the ndk. Java will be much easier to use, but because it utilizes a garbage collector, you need a slightly higher understanding of how the code works to write fast running code. C++ is more difficult to learn, especially for a beginner, but because you manage memory manually you have complete control over how your game runs. I would recommend starting with java. There is a good book called Beginning Android Game Development which is published by APress, that covers all the basics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Java first. Garbage collection may be something of a crutch, but if you've never touched programming before in your life, you'll want to focus on learning how to just deal with data structures and methods before worrying about memory management.
Of course, that said, you don't want to learn terrible habits in Java either.
Rirere said:
Java first. Garbage collection may be something of a crutch, but if you've never touched programming before in your life, you'll want to focus on learning how to just deal with data structures and methods before worrying about memory management.
Of course, that said, you don't want to learn terrible habits in Java either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed
Thank you everybody! I'm getting the book Timkd127 suggested as soon as I have some spare time
Pkmns said:
Thank you everybody! I'm getting the book Timkd127 suggested as soon as I have some spare time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to help. I did just remember though, that book approaches game dev assuming you already know some java. You might want to familiarize yourself with the language before you spend money on a text.
timkd127 said:
Glad to help. I did just remember though, that book approaches game dev assuming you already know some java. You might want to familiarize yourself with the language before you spend money on a text.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my concern for the OP. Most resources I've seen for learning Android development assume some Java knowledge and most Java resources assume some basic level of knowledge about programming in general. In this case the OP is claiming to have none of that.
The good news is there are many paths available, the bad news is there are many paths available
Most paths fall into one of two categories:
1) Very high level - Flash and Unity are the two best examples for Ouya that I can think of off the top of my head. While both allow you to get into the code both also provide ways to build some things without getting much into code. Great for getting up and going but a lot of times you can end up finding yourself limited by your tools when you take this kind of approach. Personally I'm not a huge fan. In general you tend to develop skills that are specific to the engine/platform you're working with rather than general skills. The low barrier to entry can be attractive - but the frustration of making your square ideas fit into the round holes provided by your tools can be an issue down the road.
2) Very low level - Grab a text editor and start coding some java is more or less what this breaks down to. But even this path there are several libraries you can use to help yourself along and you can even get lower level and dive into the NDK to write native code in C++. The steep learning curve can scare a lot of people away from this path - but you tend to build more general skills that are easy to re-apply with other tools and scenarios.
I cover my thoughts on some of this specific to Ouya better in my thread on OuyaForums where I'm following my own progress on building some simple games for Ouya: http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?4074-Baby-steps
Even though it's more intimidating I personally strongly suggest taking approach 2 before looking into things like Unity and GameMaker - develop your fundamentals then look into tools that can help you leverage them into bigger and bigger ideas.
Whichever path you take at some point you're going to need to know how to code. If you're starting with absolutely no knowledge about coding then it's going to be a bit harder. For example the Android Game Development book (Which I'm currently reading and finding very good - it's also written by the author of libGDX which is the library I'm using to speed development.) assumes a basic knowledge of Java and suggests "Thinking in Java" which is available free on-line (for older versions but they're just fine) to bring people up to speed with Java. I'm also reading that (actually reading that more than the android game development book right now) to brush up on my Java basics. But at the start of that book the author makes it clear that he assumes a basic background in some other programming language! Apparently the printed versions of that book come with a CD including a multimedia course covering programming basics. Phew! That's a lot of books to get through!
They aren't great but one set of tutorials that is aimed at the complete and utter noob are the Kilobolt tutorials that were actually started here on XDA before moving to the authors own site here: http://www.kilobolt.com/tutorials.html
I'm not completely in agreement with the approach those tutorials take or with all of their examples...but they are the best I've seen for someone starting with absolutely no programming knowledge looking to get into Android and by extension Ouya development.
If I was just starting out the advice I'd like someone to give me would probably be:
1) Start with the Kilobolt tutorials.
2) Once you're through Unit 1 start reading Thinking in Java
3) Once you're through TIJ or Unit 3 add in Android Game Development
4) Once you think you're ready for AGD start looking into libGDX
5) Build a SIMPLE game. Play some old atari 2600 games and try to replicate one.
6) Make that simple game fancier - add some modern touches like better graphics and sound, a high score list, achievements, power ups....
7) Let your dreams take over.
One other source you may want to look into as a total beginner is Udacity...I saw their Java course a few weeks ago and signed up for it but haven't been following it because it's more beginner oriented than I was looking for and...well it's incomplete. One of my big beefs with the Kilobolt tutorials was I started following them last year - and the update rate on them quickly dropped so low I forgot about them. Now that they're complete that isn't an issue. But I wasn't about to dive into another incomplete learning resource so when I saw that Udacity's Java intro wasn't complete I didn't even watch more than the intro video. But it's probably worth checking out here: https://www.udacity.com/course/cs046
jhitesma said:
That's my concern for the OP. Most resources I've seen for learning Android development assume some Java knowledge and most Java resources assume some basic level of knowledge about programming in general. In this case the OP is claiming to have none of that.
The good news is there are many paths available, the bad news is there are many paths available
Most paths fall into one of two categories:
1) Very high level - Flash and Unity are the two best examples for Ouya that I can think of off the top of my head. While both allow you to get into the code both also provide ways to build some things without getting much into code. Great for getting up and going but a lot of times you can end up finding yourself limited by your tools when you take this kind of approach. Personally I'm not a huge fan. In general you tend to develop skills that are specific to the engine/platform you're working with rather than general skills. The low barrier to entry can be attractive - but the frustration of making your square ideas fit into the round holes provided by your tools can be an issue down the road.
2) Very low level - Grab a text editor and start coding some java is more or less what this breaks down to. But even this path there are several libraries you can use to help yourself along and you can even get lower level and dive into the NDK to write native code in C++. The steep learning curve can scare a lot of people away from this path - but you tend to build more general skills that are easy to re-apply with other tools and scenarios.
I cover my thoughts on some of this specific to Ouya better in my thread on OuyaForums where I'm following my own progress on building some simple games for Ouya: http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?4074-Baby-steps
Even though it's more intimidating I personally strongly suggest taking approach 2 before looking into things like Unity and GameMaker - develop your fundamentals then look into tools that can help you leverage them into bigger and bigger ideas.
Whichever path you take at some point you're going to need to know how to code. If you're starting with absolutely no knowledge about coding then it's going to be a bit harder. For example the Android Game Development book (Which I'm currently reading and finding very good - it's also written by the author of libGDX which is the library I'm using to speed development.) assumes a basic knowledge of Java and suggests "Thinking in Java" which is available free on-line (for older versions but they're just fine) to bring people up to speed with Java. I'm also reading that (actually reading that more than the android game development book right now) to brush up on my Java basics. But at the start of that book the author makes it clear that he assumes a basic background in some other programming language! Apparently the printed versions of that book come with a CD including a multimedia course covering programming basics. Phew! That's a lot of books to get through!
They aren't great but one set of tutorials that is aimed at the complete and utter noob are the Kilobolt tutorials that were actually started here on XDA before moving to the authors own site here: http://www.kilobolt.com/tutorials.html
I'm not completely in agreement with the approach those tutorials take or with all of their examples...but they are the best I've seen for someone starting with absolutely no programming knowledge looking to get into Android and by extension Ouya development.
If I was just starting out the advice I'd like someone to give me would probably be:
1) Start with the Kilobolt tutorials.
2) Once you're through Unit 1 start reading Thinking in Java
3) Once you're through TIJ or Unit 3 add in Android Game Development
4) Once you think you're ready for AGD start looking into libGDX
5) Build a SIMPLE game. Play some old atari 2600 games and try to replicate one.
6) Make that simple game fancier - add some modern touches like better graphics and sound, a high score list, achievements, power ups....
7) Let your dreams take over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for all this info! I'll probably dive in the Kilobolt tutorials as soon as I have some free time, then I'll start thinking about which way to take later (I don't know whether all this is more frightening or exciting )
jhitesma that's a very informative and helpful post. Nice.