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Just read over on Engadget how Sprint lost $760 million last quarter. Why do you think they continually do so bad? Is it because of poor sales or poor business/financial decisions (debt left over from merger or otherwise)? Their coverage is awesome, their 3G speeds are often better than Verizon's, they have 4G on tap, customer service has never given me any trouble, I can upgrade my phone annually, and the plans offer way more features and are still cheaper than the competition. The list is endless, there's really no other carrier I'd rather be on. Do others not feel the same way? Is their marketing failing?
I feel the same way. Their advertisements always seem good. I feel like they don't advertise as heavily as any of the other carriers here.
Maybe from all the expanding and changes they've done? Don't know though. I haven't had any problems at all. Their customer service always corrects problems, even crediting a lot of charges back.. and coverage is good. A lot happier then I was with at&t
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I'm sure the cost of upgrading to 4G has a lot to do with it. Plus I am ripping them off with my unlimited everything for $65 a month!!
Profit for a business is bad...profit=have to pay taxes!
tgruendler said:
Profit for a business is bad...profit=have to pay taxes!
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(Yoda voice)
Sound your logic is not..
Sprint screwed themselves and are still recovering from that terrible decision to merge with nextel.
It's because Sprint spends billions of dollars on Nascar instead of it's network.
UrbanMuppet said:
It's because Sprint spends billions of dollars on Nascar instead of it's network.
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ROFL!!!!!!!
UrbanMuppet said:
It's because Sprint spends billions of dollars on Nascar instead of it's network.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
It wasnt until recently that they had good phones. I remember a few years back, most of their phones were garbage. Everyone jumpped ship and moved to ATT due to the fact that you could pull the sim card, and switch phones as you pleased. All the phones from Asia were flocking over to the US and everyone had some new Nokia, Ericson, or some other great phone.
Sprint had junk. Some of us probably rode that out, and FINALLY they are getting some good phones...I've been on Sprint for almost 12 years now. I did move to VZW for 2 years, but ended up coming back to Sprint.
makes you wonder how they are even sustainable loosing that type of money every quarter.
The Nextel merger is STILL hurting them badly. Plus, they offer the cheapest plans but for the longest time they did not have the devices people wanted. Now they have the devices but people are stuck in contracts with other carriers. Another thing is advertisement and word of mouth. Sprint has never had the most eye-catching commercials. Us former Palm Pre users know the effect bad or no advertisement can hurt you. And I agree, the Nascar thing is wasted money when you have to spend more money rolling out 4G nationwide.
nukedukem said:
I'm sure the cost of upgrading to 4G has a lot to do with it. Plus I am ripping them off with my unlimited everything for $65 a month!!
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They're ripping you off charging you $65 a month for what cost them >$10 a month actually (after negating handset subsidies of course).
davebu said:
They're ripping you off charging you $65 a month for what cost them >$10 a month actually (after negating handset subsidies of course).
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Yeah, it's obvious Sprint is making a killing off of their subscribers since they are rolling in profits *eyeroll*
DanBergundy said:
ROFL!!!!!!!
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Has ANYONE even clicked on the Nascar icon on their phone?
I suspect no one.
Nascar fans are not technology nerds like us.
Customer service is complete garbage where I'm at.
Compared to other company's there plans are pretty cheap 10 for data with smartphone (or is it 4g) and mostly everyone else is 25-30.
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My opinion is that when they took nextel under their wing, nextel was bleeding money like a stuck pig. I think nextel is still bleeding, and now they are siphoning sprint dry.
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You gotta be careful when trying to rescue a drowning person. They might pull you under while trying to save themselves.
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1. Inexpensive plans
2. Good customer service
3. Yearly phone upgrades
Its sad but maybe being a "better" company can actually hurt your bottom line. Don't forget that Verizon lost money last quarter too.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...lans-this-summer/&category=classic&postPage=1
So sad that companies are doing this, especially just to carry a phone.
mattykinsx said:
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...lans-this-summer/&category=classic&postPage=1
So sad that companies are doing this, especially just to carry a phone.
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Yeah, I don't know what to do.
I kinda want to get the EVO3D, but I really like Moto phones... but Sprint is cheaper and has a better plan.
If Moto would come out with a DROID 3 on Sprint I wouldn't even be having this predicament. Or if HTC would make a ridiculously-specced QWERTY phone with Android on Sprint.
so sad, i hope carriers change their mind about how low the cap is
Kinda sucks in a way since I hate it when carriers get the better of customers. As long as I get good Sprint coverage ( and they don't do any stupid **** like this), I'm sticking with them though.
Pocket posted...
Sad to think it's only a matter of time before Sprint moves in the same direction. It's inevitable.
Am I the only one seeing it.....what happened to at&t after iPhone dropped? This is only round 2 of the Jobs train. Verizon will soon be another at&t and so will sprint is they're stupid enough to get it. Pretty sad.
Sent from the Evo
conqu1stador said:
Sad to think it's only a matter of time before Sprint moves in the same direction. It's inevitable.
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I don't know that they can.
They made a commitment to truly unlimited, to go back on it now would damage them as far as PR.
mattykinsx said:
I don't know that they can.
They made a commitment to truly unlimited, to go back on it now would damage them as far as PR.
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Of course they CAN.
I do hope they stick to their plans for as long as logically possible. But it just seems unrealistic to think that even 5 years from now they'd still be offering truly unlimited data. This is the direction the industry is going in. Sprint will inevitably follow.
I love Sprint and hope they can keep it up for as long as possible, and it's going to be a great reason to start drawing in even more subscribers as everyone else goes the tiered data route. But it's not going to last forever. Or even half of forever ... whatever that is.
conqu1stador said:
Of course they CAN.
I do hope they stick to their plans for as long as logically possible. But it just seems unrealistic to think that even 5 years from now they'd still be offering truly unlimited data. This is the direction the industry is going in. Sprint will inevitably follow.
I love Sprint and hope they can keep it up for as long as possible, and it's going to be a great reason to start drawing in even more subscribers as everyone else goes the tiered data route. But it's not going to last forever. Or even half of forever ... whatever that is.
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When I speak of "can" I mean with business sense, of course.
Sprint needs to be smart here because that wins you business.
If they're smart and keep to what they claim are their ideals then they can steal away a good chunk from the At&t/Verizon crowd.
They need to maintain their network, keep prices low and keep truly unlimited.
There's only one way to do that: efficiency.
Well, sure. From a business stand point that is all well and good. I get what you're saying but I don't think its that crazy to think that even a few years down the road ( IF that) you start hearing talk of Sprint possibly moving away from true unlimited. At the end of the day you have to keep the boat afloat and you have to weigh the 'money from subscriber numbers' to the possible 'revenue from said subscribers data plans.'
I do think that with their current plans, coupled with other carrier decisions and actions, it can only be a positive for Sprint to keep up the same game. But at the end of the day it is a business. Whatever nets you more of a profit at the end of the year and allows the dream to continue is what gets done. At the end of the day it's all the same, the business has to do what is best for themselves.
I do think it's more important for Sprint because they obviously don't have the numbers that the others do, so even if however many people choose to abandon the network because of tiered data plans, the hit isn't as noticeable. But with Sprint, should people start jumping ship en masse due to their network issues then it obviously effects Sprint more because of the smaller numbers.
I'm not saying Sprint couldn't afford to do it, I get that it would make more sense for them to stick with their current guns - especially in the face of everyone else changing their plans up. And time will tell just how many people actually jump from Verizon / AT&T / T-Mobile to Sprint because of their unlimited data plans. It's not like people are jumping on at record numbers.
Either way, it's still going to happen. Just a matter of time.
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mattykinsx said:
When I speak of "can" I mean with business sense, of course.
Sprint needs to be smart here because that wins you business.
If they're smart and keep to what they claim are their ideals then they can steal away a good chunk from the At&t/Verizon crowd.
They need to maintain their network, keep prices low and keep truly unlimited.
There's only one way to do that: efficiency.
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Click to collapse
I think their network is the only thing holding them back and that's my only complaint.. I work for at&t land line and even with my measly 20% discount, I still pay less with sprint shared plan
conqu1stador said:
But it's still going to happen.
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I wouldn't go as far as to claim that.
I would be interested to know how much it actually costs a carrier to have truly unlimited versus not.
My guess would be: not jack **** of a difference.
My guess is it's really all about preventing sharing of copyrighted files and what Apple wants. [yet another example why don't own apple products]
mattykinsx said:
When I speak of "can" I mean with business sense, of course.
Sprint needs to be smart here because that wins you business.
If they're smart and keep to what they claim are their ideals then they can steal away a good chunk from the At&t/Verizon crowd.
They need to maintain their network, keep prices low and keep truly unlimited.
There's only one way to do that: efficiency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know why people still believe this exodus to the cheaper/better deal carrier stuff to be true. Sprint and Tmobile have been the cheapest out of the 4 big carriers in the US for probably the past 5 years. Even the fact that you can get almost unlimited calls, texts and data for $69.99 on Sprint still hasnt been enough to sway people from choosing VZW and AT&T instead. Its as simple as looking at the churn and post paid subscriber gains/losses. Sprint and Tmobile are cheaper and still bleed more customers than the big 2.
In the grand scheme of things.. its not going to matter. Sprint still has a stigma tied to its name from the terrible service/customer service they used to have and when people think of Verizon.. they think of the big red map on tv that gets you coverage pretty much everywhere. Same with Tmobile and AT&T... hell Tmobile has unlimited everything plans for like $79.99 and are still bleeding a ****load of customers pretty much every quarter. AT&T has tiered data and high plans, yet still gains post paid customers every quarter. I hope people dont think that just because VZW is going tiered thats going to change. Even with all the changes Sprint has made, their sole reason for the turnaround last year was the Evo. That was a good thing... but at the time the Evo was the first.. AND only of its time. Now you have Evo equivalents and even better coming out on every other carrier.
The whole "first to 4G" thing also helped... but pretty much everyone has it now. Hell even Metro PCS is lighting up LTE in cities now. I would think by now people would realize that its not always the "value" that the masses seek though. Prime example of that, look at how high priced Apple products are but yet.. they cant keep anything they sell in stock and everything they make flies off the shelves. I mean you COULD go get that mp3 player that does the same thing for $100 less... but people dont. You COULD get an Acer tablet instead of the ipad... but people dont. Marketing and perception is reality and thats still a negative in Sprints corner.
mattykinsx said:
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that.
I would be interested to know how much it actually costs a carrier to have truly unlimited versus not.
My guess would be: not jack **** of a difference.
My guess is it's really all about preventing sharing of copyrighted files and what Apple wants. [yet another example why don't own apple products]
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Click to collapse
Hell just look at the huge backhaul issues Sprint is having now. Thats with unlimited data. Let AT&T and/or VZW show that going to a tiered data system cuts costs and I guarantee you at some point Sprint will be doing the same thing.
brownhornet said:
I dont know why people still believe this exodus to the cheaper/better deal carrier stuff to be true. Sprint and Tmobile have been the cheapest out of the 4 big carriers in the US for probably the past 5 years. Even the fact that you can get almost unlimited calls, texts and data for $69.99 on Sprint still hasnt been enough to sway people from choosing VZW and AT&T instead. Its as simple as looking at the churn and post paid subscriber gains/losses. Sprint and Tmobile are cheaper and still bleed more customers than the big 2.
In the grand scheme of things.. its not going to matter. Sprint still has a stigma tied to its name from the terrible service/customer service they used to have and when people think of Verizon.. they think of the big red map on tv that gets you coverage pretty much everywhere. Same with Tmobile and AT&T... hell Tmobile has unlimited everything plans for like $79.99 and are still bleeding a ****load of customers pretty much every quarter. AT&T has tiered data and high plans, yet still gains post paid customers every quarter. I hope people dont think that just because VZW is going tiered thats going to change. Even with all the changes Sprint has made, their sole reason for the turnaround last year was the Evo. That was a good thing... but at the time the Evo was the first.. AND only of its time. Now you have Evo equivalents and even better coming out on every other carrier.
The whole "first to 4G" thing also helped... but pretty much everyone has it now. Hell even Metro PCS is lighting up LTE in cities now. I would think by now people would realize that its not always the "value" that the masses seek though. Prime example of that, look at how high priced Apple products are but yet.. they cant keep anything they sell in stock and everything they make flies off the shelves. I mean you COULD go get that mp3 player that does the same thing for $100 less... but people dont. You COULD get an Acer tablet instead of the ipad... but people dont. Marketing and perception is reality and thats still a negative in Sprints corner.
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You hit the nail on the head right there though, it's because of the image Sprint has.
Nothing else.
As far as T-mobile...I know that there are some on here that praise them but their service is dead last.
I think MetroPcs actually has more land coverage now than T-mobile.
If Sprint can change people's minds and stick to their ideals, I see a bright future among the darkness of At&t/Verizon.
brownhornet said:
Hell just look at the huge backhaul issues Sprint is having now. Thats with unlimited data. Let AT&T and/or VZW show that going to a tiered data system cuts costs and I guarantee you at some point Sprint will be doing the same thing.
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I don't know but again, let's not speak in absolutes and with 100% belief because we just don't know.
In the first quarter of this yearSprint reported the most customers gained and the fewest lost in years. I'd venture to say that at that time point it wasn't due to the evo or 4g, seems their image and rep are changing as we type.
Tapa tapa tapa
mattykinsx said:
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that.
I would be interested to know how much it actually costs a carrier to have truly unlimited versus not.
My guess would be: not jack **** of a difference.
My guess is it's really all about preventing sharing of copyrighted files and what Apple wants. [yet another example why don't own apple products]
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Click to collapse
The difference in network usage is enough. When Sprint gets back up, and gets a lot of subscribers, then it'll be interesting to see how they handle the two hand in hand.
Look, I'm all for Sprint ... I've been nothing but happy with Sprint. Data speeds in my area are fine, but when visiting family elsewhere I noticed that for the most part it was hit or miss. Thankfully I wasn't relying on phone usage at that time, or at least network usage. But where it counts, where I happen to live and spend most of my time, I have no complaints. So, naturally, I really do hope they can continue this truly unlimited offering for as long as they can. I'm not assuming they'll drop their plans next year, that would be terrible.
Go ahead and point me to the information convincing yourself that it's 'never' going to happen. It's obviously a known fact that for Sprint to keep their small base happy they have to stand by their word, but should that base grow tremendously so they'll have to start putting more and more money into their network. You have to make money to spend money and you have to come out with a profit to realistically keep said business going.
I don't doubt that Sprint reneging on their current plans in the next year would result in a lethal blow to their business, but down the road? It all depends on how well Sprint continues to grow and improve.
And it also wouldn't be the first time that a business made 'promises' or claimed end goals but had to change for their own good. You don't take a business and run it until it just dies without trying to change your methods. You exhaust all options to keep it afloat. Even with their unlimited data I don't see people flocking to Sprint in record numbers. Not to say people aren't, but it's not some 'write home and write off the other carriers' numbers.
I honestly hope Sprint can keep it up. Do I expect Sprint to have the same data plans 10 years from now? No, I really don't. But I hope I'm wrong!
I have to ask this question. If sprint decided to change it's plans next month before the Evo 3d and stated that if you upgrade you will be rolled into a 2gb or 5 gb plan. 2gb the price is the same and 5gb with a $10.00 increase. How many of you would sign for another two years?
These companies know that phones are our weakness and if you want it bad enough you will sign that contract and pay the upcharge. Simple as that. I am thinking from now on in general that I will just buy my phones straight out from craigslist or ebay because these companies are starting to take advantage at every corner. The new deal with AT&T and Tmobile will make our choices even smaller causing these companies to really bend us over.
Sprint charges more for 4g or premium data and we don't get that. Now if I decide to tether and it goes over 5gb then red flags are thrown up. See they feel like they can stick it to you but when you stick it to them, they drop you like a hot potatoe. When are Americans gonna figure out that these companies are not our friends and at the end of the day the only thing that matters is the Almighty Dollar.
sorry to be off topic, but i'd rail the tmobile girl in a heartbeat...back to topic. Verizon might lower their prices and leave a cap. This would please some people, not me
That weird looking one with the horse mouth? Interesting ...
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Am i the only one who thinks google should have bought tmo instead of the devil to me tmobile is like the founding of america for mobile tech they were first company to exept android an there gonna let them die and or swallowed smh
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...why would google buy Tmobile?
That would **** everything up.
Google provides to all the carriers, if google bought Tmo, everything exculsive like nexus phones would be to tmo, which is bad for other carriers, and bad for the economy.
baddddddddd idea.
xriderx66 said:
...why would google buy Tmobile?
That would **** everything up.
Google provides to all the carriers, if google bought Tmo, everything exculsive like nexus phones would be to tmo, which is bad for other carriers, and bad for the economy.
baddddddddd idea.
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Having 3 main companys is bad for economy less choice higher prices cuz less competition an google could put it on other companys u make it seem like google is not open to things look at android it is open source
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monopolies are never good.
Although I agree that monopolies or the such almost never benefit the consumer, the probability that AT&T will buy T-Mobile increases every given day with the recent AT&T ads that advocate their point being aired. So, if T-Mobile is up for grabs, I as a consumer would rather have Google own the brand instead of it being absorbed into another carrier. At least then, T-Mobile would have a little more leverage in the market with Nexus device exclusivity and the likes. I mean, Verizon has 1) Tons of coverage across the country and 2) both the iPhone and Android devices. Sprint's selling point is that they have some of the most innovative HTC devices out there so if T-Mobile had exclusivity rights with Google directly, then they could be propelled back into a competitive spot as a national carrier. Sorry for the post being so long, but T-Mobile was the first carrier to adopt Android, as many fans will tell you, and it pains me to see them tank just because other carriers are snatching up some of the best devices from the best manufacturers hence my aforementioned standpoint.
Google buying tmobile would be retarded. That awesome customer service that T is known for....gone. You guys need to face the facts...DT is selling T because it's losing money and costumers regularly now. It's not worth it to them to invest in the deployment of faster service anymore. They see T as having the best shot of profitabilty as a sale. If att buys it they buy it at a decent price. If it fails....it goes to tne next highedt bidder(s). So instead of ending up with awesome coverage with higher prices we will more than likely end up with whatever 4th rate carrier piggybacks on att network in your area.
Google is advertising company...what makes you think they are qualified to run a mobile phone and data service? They couldnt even provide CS for the N1.
Remember, tmobile will be sold...either as a company or as spectrum.
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jamesd86 said:
Google buying tmobile would be retarded. That awesome customer service that T is known for....gone. You guys need to face the facts...DT is selling T because it's losing money and costumers regularly now. It's not worth it to them to invest in the deployment of faster service anymore. They see T as having the best shot of profitabilty as a sale. If att buys it they buy it at a decent price. If it fails....it goes to tne next highedt bidder(s). So instead of ending up with awesome coverage with higher prices we will more than likely end up with whatever 4th rate carrier piggybacks on att network in your area.
Google is advertising company...what makes you think they are qualified to run a mobile phone and data service? They couldnt even provide CS for the N1.
Remember, tmobile will be sold...either as a company or as spectrum.
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There google they can do anything they started out as search company an look at them now tell me u invisioned this happening so wat makes u think they cant do it
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Jasonhunterx said:
Having 3 main companys is bad for economy less choice higher prices cuz less competition an google could put it on other companys u make it seem like google is not open to things look at android it is open source
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Capitalism always prevails.
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scrizz said:
monopolies are never good.
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Click to collapse
Who do you think sells you gas? Etc. Cited in due time.
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nice
Wow....thats a cool thought....
I wouldnt mind betting my cell service from Google....
Why would it be retarded for google to buy t-mobile? First they have the money needed to make a company like that profitable, and losing money to google is probably like pissing water, they are gigantic.
And if they did buy T-Mobile, why would Google phones only be available through "Google Mobile"? Google could sell to every person and have exclusive phones for their GMobile service... Haha GMobile niceeee....
By having a company like T-Mobile around this entire time it has kept ATT and Verizon at bay with pricing and competition. T-Mobile has a large enough customer base, and network built up that if someone was unhappy with one of the two big guys you would just go to T-Mobile and smile at the end of the day not realizing why you didn't go with T-Mobile in the first place and save some money so you could buy a few extra bags of weed. Sheesh.
scrizz said:
monopolies are never good.
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lol
TM+ATT=monopolies
jwleonhart said:
Why would it be retarded for google to buy t-mobile? First they have the money needed to make a company like that profitable, and losing money to google is probably like pissing water, they are gigantic.
And if they did buy T-Mobile, why would Google phones only be available through "Google Mobile"? Google could sell to every person and have exclusive phones for their GMobile service... Haha GMobile niceeee.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GT-Mobile
jwleonhart said:
Why would it be retarded for google to buy t-mobile? First they have the money needed to make a company like that profitable, and losing money to google is probably like pissing water, they are gigantic.
And if they did buy T-Mobile, why would Google phones only be available through "Google Mobile"? Google could sell to every person and have exclusive phones for their GMobile service... Haha GMobile niceeee....
By having a company like T-Mobile around this entire time it has kept ATT and Verizon at bay with pricing and competition. T-Mobile has a large enough customer base, and network built up that if someone was unhappy with one of the two big guys you would just go to T-Mobile and smile at the end of the day not realizing why you didn't go with T-Mobile in the first place and save some money so you could buy a few extra bags of weed. Sheesh.
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Because Google is not a mobile phone company, nor a telephone company. Their products are continually in beta. Do you not remember the customer service people had with the nexus one? There's a reason they don't sell phones directly anymore. Google buying Tmobile would make me switch faster than when ATT buys them.
jamesd86 said:
Because Google is not a mobile phone company, nor a telephone company. Their products are continually in beta. Do you not remember the customer service people had with the nexus one? There's a reason they don't sell phones directly anymore. Google buying Tmobile would make me switch faster than when ATT buys them.
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Click to collapse
If they bought T-Mobile they wouldn't have terrible customer service. You're implying all of the current staff of t-mobile would just vanish, which I doubt would happen if they bought T-Mobile. They would probably keep most everything the same. They would be buying the company, not just changing the name.
PanamaPaul said:
Wow....thats a cool thought....
I wouldnt mind betting my cell service from Google....
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Click to collapse
Lol, as long as I don't have to flush a phone line down my toilet
Beware of angry gingerbread man
jwleonhart said:
Why would it be retarded for google to buy t-mobile? First they have the money needed to make a company like that profitable, and losing money to google is probably like pissing water, they are gigantic.
And if they did buy T-Mobile, why would Google phones only be available through "Google Mobile"? Google could sell to every person and have exclusive phones for their GMobile service... Haha GMobile niceeee....
By having a company like T-Mobile around this entire time it has kept ATT and Verizon at bay with pricing and competition. T-Mobile has a large enough customer base, and network built up that if someone was unhappy with one of the two big guys you would just go to T-Mobile and smile at the end of the day not realizing why you didn't go with T-Mobile in the first place and save some money so you could buy a few extra bags of weed. Sheesh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be retarded because:
A) There is no rumor, no speculation of google EVER buying any carrier.
B) Google would obviously want to promote their own carrier, so most of their phones that are flagships would be their carriers only, which would make other carriers jealous.
C) ATT is buying TMO get the **** over it. Dont like it? Go move to Verzion, sprint or even... METRO.
xriderx66 said:
It would be retarded because:
A) There is no rumor, no speculation of google EVER buying any carrier.
B) Google would obviously want to promote their own carrier, so most of their phones that are flagships would be their carriers only, which would make other carriers jealous.
C) ATT is buying TMO get the **** over it. Dont like it? Go move to Verzion, sprint or even... METRO.
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Click to collapse
I agree with C. I just switched over to AT&T, and they're not even bad. Plus they have a good deal going on where you basically get unlimited minutes for the price of their cheapest minute plan.
xriderx66 said:
It would be retarded because:
A) There is no rumor, no speculation of google EVER buying any carrier.
B) Google would obviously want to promote their own carrier, so most of their phones that are flagships would be their carriers only, which would make other carriers jealous.
C) ATT is buying TMO get the **** over it. Dont like it? Go move to Verzion, sprint or even... METRO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to butt in but B is the only point that starts to helps your argument. A states why it's not likely, which was never part of the discussion, and C is the reality of it.
You realize we can all disagree and not be mean right?
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http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Leaked-ATT-Letter-Demolishes-Case-For-TMobile-Merger-115652
Yesterday a partially-redacted document briefly appeared on the FCC website --accidentally posted by a law firm working for AT&T on the $39 billion T-Mobile deal (somewhere there's a paralegal looking for work today). While AT&T engaged in damage control telling reporters that the document contained no new information -- our review of the doc shows that's simply not true. Data in the letter undermines AT&T's primary justification for the massive deal, while highlighting how AT&T is willing to pay a huge premium simply to reduce competition and keep T-Mobile out of Sprint's hands.
We've previously discussed how AT&T's claims of job gains and network investment gained by the deal aren't true, with overall network investment actually being reduced with the elimination of T-Mobile. While AT&T and the CWA are busy telling regulators the deal will increase network investment by $8 billion, out of the other side of their mouth AT&T has been telling investors the deal will reduce investment by $10 billion over 6 years. Based on historical averages T-Mobile would have invested $18 billion during that time frame, which means an overall reduction in investment.
Yet to get the deal approved, AT&T's key talking point to regulators and the press has been the claim that they need T-Mobile to increase LTE network coverage from 80% to 97% of the population. Except it has grown increasingly clear that AT&T doesn't need T-Mobile to accomplish much of anything, and likely would have arrived at 97% simply to keep pace with Verizon. AT&T, who has fewer customers and more spectrum than Verizon (or any other company for that matter), has all the resources and spectrum they need for uniform LTE coverage without this deal.
For the first time the letter pegs the cost of bringing AT&T's LTE coverage from 80% to 97% at $3.8 billion -- quite a cost difference from the $39 billion price tag on the T-Mobile deal. The push for 97% coverage apparently came from AT&T marketing, who was well aware that leaving LTE investment at 80% would leave them at a competitive disadvantage to Verizon. Marketing likely didn't want a repeat of the Luke Wilson map fiasco of a few years back, when Verizon made AT&T look foolish for poor 3G coverage.
The letter also notes that AT&T's supposed decision to "not" build out LTE to 97% was cemented during the first week of January, yet public documents (pdf) indicate that at the same time AT&T was already considering buying T-Mobile, having proposed the deal to Deutsche Telekom on January 15. In the letter, AT&T tries to make it seem like the decision to hold off on that 17% LTE expansion was based on costs. Yet the fact the company was willing to shell out $39 billion one week later, combined with AT&T's track record with these kinds of tactics, suggests AT&T executives knew that 80-97% expansion promise would be a useful carrot on a stick for politicians.
While the $39 billion price certainly delivers AT&T customers, equipment, employees, and spectrum, most of T-Mobile's network replicates AT&T's existing resources in major markets, and T-Mobile's network is significantly less robust in rural markets where AT&T would want to expand. While the deal provides AT&T with a shortcut to sluggish tower builds in a few select markets, by and large AT&T will be faced with terminating many redundant positions and decommissioning a lot of duplicative equipment. They'll also have to close a large number of retail operations and independent retailers.
Again, the reality appears to be that AT&T is giving Deutsche Telekom $39 billion primarily to reduce market competition. That price tag eliminates T-Mobile entirely -- and makes Sprint (and by proxy new LTE partner LightSquared and current partner Clearwire) more susceptible to failure in the face of 80% AT&T/Verizon market domination. How much do you think wireless broadband market dominance is worth to AT&T over the next decade? After all, AT&T will be first to tell you there's a wireless data "tsunami" coming, with AT&T and Verizon on the shore eagerly billing users up to $10 per gigabyte.
Regardless of the motivation behind rejecting 97% LTE deployment, the letter proves AT&T's claim they need T-Mobile to improve LTE coverage from 80-97% simply isn't true. That's a huge problem for AT&T, since nearly every politician and non-profit that has voiced support for the merger did so based largely on this buildout promise. It's also a problem when it comes to the DOJ review, since proof that AT&T could complete their LTE build for far less than the cost of this deal means the deal doesn't meet the DOJ's standard for merger-specific benefits.
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Wow I hope you're right and that this does throw a monkey wrench in the merger review... AT&T has notoriously wretched customer service & this is purely a power grab to squeeze out competition. These commercials about the merger being necessary to expand coverage to underserved populations looks like & smells like PR-spin BS. But, it seems like a lot of big players are coming out in favor of it... It'd be a great time to be an AT&T lobbyist right now.
interesting - but I think most of us were already aware of their false info since the get-go
TexasEpic4G said:
interesting - but I think most of us were already aware of their false info since the get-go
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Maybe we knew, but not most people. I hope it gets denied so Sprint can merge and catch up to the big red and at&t.
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Damn that's a lot of typing on an onscreen keyboard..
Edit: I see you just copied the article into the thread. Good info!
shane6374 said:
Damn that's a lot of typing on an onscreen keyboard..
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To be honest, I copy/pasted. But I could do it with my favorite, Swiftkey X keyboard.
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The merger has big tech industry and political support. If it does happen, we need to look at what assets ATT/TMobile will have to divest to meet approval, and which assets Sprint can buy up.
son of a ***** my ATT stock is going to take a dive on monday
murso74 said:
son of a ***** my ATT stock is going to take a dive on monday
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I'd take a look at Sprint's stock if this merger is declined. lol
Overstew said:
I'd take a look at Sprint's stock if this merger is declined. lol
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I'm planning on grabbing handfuls of it on Monday anyway.
The Root said:
I'm planning on grabbing handfuls of it on Monday anyway.
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Makes me wish I had the money to get into stock trading. But I'm sure it doesn't help that I don't know much about it, haha
Sprint's balance sheet is much too bloated with debt and an uncertain 4G future. I would invest in reliable companies like Exxon Mobil, Microsoft, Ford, and Walmart.
I'm glad you posted this not for the info that we already knew but for the fact that this merger should go down in flames now
Reading this made me so happy. I will starting as a retail associate for tmo within the next few weeks (been trying for 3 years!) And I'm def happy about this. **** at&t this merger is horrible and is a completely legit try at market dominance. Sprint needs to pick up tmo, no matter what the outcome of the different tech and spectrum being used is. It would put all 3 companies neck to neck. And since sprint's prices are the **** big red and apples main brown nosers will be force to compete, instead of raping your wallet.
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last thing sprint needs to do is integrate another new tech.
RushAOZ said:
Reading this made me so happy. I will starting as a retail associate for tmo within the next few weeks (been trying for 3 years!) And I'm def happy about this. **** at&t this merger is horrible and is a completely legit try at market dominance. Sprint needs to pick up tmo, no matter what the outcome of the different tech and spectrum being used is. It would put all 3 companies neck to neck. And since sprint's prices are the **** big red and apples main brown nosers will be force to compete, instead of raping your wallet.
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murso74 said:
last thing sprint needs to do is integrate another new tech.
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It's interesting to see both views on the subject. I'm all for Sprint grabbing T-Mobile. If another wireless carrier gets T-Mobile, Sprint will most likely go bankrupt and/or be bought out by another company instead. Sprint's options are to either buy or be bought. (At least that's my view of it).
Sprint's a great company that cares about it's customers, I just wish they were larger because they're the ones that have fair pricing.
Yeap. If I was Google Id pick up sprint and tmo... wasn't there talks about Google acquiring sprint or something. If Google owned its own network apple would be screwed
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RushAOZ said:
Yeap. If I was Google Id pick up sprint and tmo... wasn't there talks about Google acquiring sprint or something. If Google owned its own network apple would be screwed
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http://www.businessinsider.com/sprint-verizon-comcast-google-2011-3
Verizon stated they wouldn't buy Sprint, they're in too much debt (that link I cannot find), however, it was interesting that Comcast might buy Sprint. Then again, same thing. Sprint's too much in debt to be bought out right now. I'm very interested in seeing how this pans out.
Not to mention Google just announced purchasing Motorola Mobile. Verizon carries the most Motorola Products so far so who knows what will happen. What I like is that Motorola also develops and provides set top boxes and cable modems for most cable operators so I think this can help Google bring more into the home tv and internet service area.
that's it... google buys sprint, the att tomobile deal goes through... we have a 3 way race. google undercuts everyones prices, and everyone benifits!
and by everyone i mean me
Just read the U.S is trying to block AT&T from purchasing T-Mo...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44341803/ns/business-us_business/
lets hope for the best!!!
For the best... Well let's hope that they can't buy T-Mo... and then let's hope for a judged ordered break down of AT&T.... now that would be awesome! Worst case scenarios... AT&T wins and merges T-Mo... and well look at that everyone PRICES go up to par
Yep we'll see. This doesn't mean the merger is completely stopped, but its a big step in the right direction!
Problem is, DT still doesn't want T-Mobile USA, what will they do?
Hey Google...got a little extra cash?
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I kinda feel sorry for all those people who jumped ship at the first announcment and are now stuck with verizon...
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Nospin said:
Problem is, DT still doesn't want T-Mobile USA, what will they do?
Hey Google...got a little extra cash?
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Haha good luck. If Google tried to buy T-mo there's no way that would ever go through. We can hope though right?
wesmagyar said:
I kinda feel sorry for all those people who jumped ship at the first announcment and are now stuck with verizon...
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Well that's their problem. They're pretty stupid to have jumped to Verizon. Especially considering that at that point if the merger did go through, they were looking at at least 18 months before they saw anything real happen to T-Mobile as we know them now.
thank god. I got At&T for 24 hours to get the new iPhone after being with T-Mobile for 8 years or so and thought their service sucked at least in Tampa. T-Mo was much faster and hella cheaper. The iPhone sucks, it's is all hype. Android all the way!
Personally, I would like to see one of the providers that use T-Mobile network buy T-Mobile. Tsimple Mobile? Walmart?
Or maybe US Cellular or other regional player can get bigger?
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I can understand the sentiments between the services of T-mo and AT&T, but I'm simply looking at this from a bigger picture.
If passed, this means the USA is going more in the direction most people never wanted it to go. Government intervention between our personal, and business lives when, sometimes, there isn't anything to intervene about -- AT&T and T-mobile are big boys, they might not make the best decisions that all their customers approve of, but for the most part they should be able to settle it themselves amicably.
Next thing you know, this situation paves the road for the government managing industries like a nagging granny.
All in all, this looks good in the immediate focus, but not in the prospective future. Who wants things being held at a stop point?
kaijura said:
I can understand the sentiments between the services of T-mo and AT&T, but I'm simply looking at this from a bigger picture.
If passed, this means the USA is going more in the direction most people never wanted it to go. Government intervention between our personal, and business lives when, sometimes, there isn't anything to intervene about -- AT&T and T-mobile are big boys, they might not make the best decisions that all their customers approve of, but for the most part they should be able to settle it themselves amicably.
Next thing you know, this situation paves the road for the government managing industries like a nagging granny.
All in all, this looks good in the immediate focus, but not in the prospective future. Who wants things being held at a stop point?
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I think most people agree that monopolies are generally not a good thing, no matter which end of the political spectrum you're on.
I was originally all for the merger, but after the "changes" and "streamlining" that AT&T has done so far, I think the government is doing the right thing.
As soon as the merger was approved, AT&T goes ahead and "streamlines" their text plan by giving the customers even LESS options. so now you have to either pay 20c per text and 30c per mms OR pay 20 bucks for unlimited.... They claim that the merger would provide better service for the customers and country but they're showing that the merger would make the customers pay more.
I dont know how true this is, but it technically costs AT&T 1 penny to send 5,000 text messages yet, they charge us 20 cent for 1 text message. So after actions like this, I now am completely opposed to the merger and I hope that it will not go through, so I can switch over to Tmobile when my DZ dies.
martonikaj said:
I think most people agree that monopolies are generally not a good thing, no matter which end of the political spectrum you're on.
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if it passes, att would have as much of a monopoly over the US cellular market as android has over the smartphone market right now. It's a decent half, but nowhere near close to the legit term.
I just don't feel it is a good thing for government to intervene, that's my gripe over the issue. It denounces the true meaning for consumer/business capitalism we once hoped to live in.
On a side note, I'm not exactly excited about AT&T fees either. It's a mixed feeling, but I don't let my personal anecdotes get into politics.
kaijura said:
if it passes, att would have as much of a monopoly over the US cellular market as android has over the smartphone market right now. It's a decent half, but nowhere near close to the legit term.
I just don't feel it is a good thing for government to intervene, that's my gripe over the issue. It denounces the true meaning for consumer/business capitalism we once hoped to live in.
On a side note, I'm not exactly excited about AT&T fees either. It's a mixed feeling, but I don't let my personal anecdotes get into politics.
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It would be a GSM monopoly, and effectively a cell carrier duopoly between AT&T and Verizon. Sprint wouldn't stand a chance if AT&T consumed T-mobile, and they'd either be bought out or disappear as well. Its just not a good thing for consumers in any way. I'm very anti-government intervention, but I really think they did the right thing here.
kaijura said:
if it passes, att would have as much of a monopoly over the US cellular market as android has over the smartphone market right now. It's a decent half, but nowhere near close to the legit term.
I just don't feel it is a good thing for government to intervene, that's my gripe over the issue. It denounces the true meaning for consumer/business capitalism we once hoped to live in.
On a side note, I'm not exactly excited about AT&T fees either. It's a mixed feeling, but I don't let my personal anecdotes get into politics.
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If it passed than you are looking at a wide variety of possibilities. The death of Sprint and other small carriers, loss of thousands of jobs...
I hate government intervention as well (i'm not a Pastafarian for nothing), but things like this do need to be investigated. Big corporations almost never care about what's in the best interest of the consumer, and mergers that radically change the landscape like this need to be examined.
AT&T didn't try to do this for the greater good, they did it to line their pockets and have more customers to screw over. They would have had too much influence in the wireless market.
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on NPR, they said AT&T promised that it would move 5000 call center jobs back to the US, and NO T-Mobile call center people would loose their jobs. I'm not a fan of AT&T and would prolly switch to Sprint once the merger happens. BUT, wouldn't AT&T have to honor all the current contracts at those rates and services and grandfather them for renewal? So if your T-Mo now, you would be able to stay at your current plan indefinitely? It would just effect new customers..no? Plus i've an upgrade available and have been eyeballing the Ruby So would rather not have to switch carriers.
blanthony said:
thank god. I got At&T for 24 hours to get the new iPhone after being with T-Mobile for 8 years or so and thought their service sucked at least in Tampa. T-Mo was much faster and hella cheaper. The iPhone sucks, it's is all hype. Android all the way!
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Lol I live I'm Tampa but my service is great
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tep065 said:
BUT, wouldn't AT&T have to honor all the current contracts at those rates and services and grandfather them for renewal? So if your T-Mo now, you would be able to stay at your current plan indefinitely? It would just effect new customers..no?
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technically yes.
but here's how they usually change it on you. You are welcome to continue with your plan, but if you ever upgrade with AT&T into a 2 year contract for a new phone, you MUST go by their plan, in which case considering that AT&T will probably not change their infrastructure anyways, you would NEED a new phone because tmo uses a completley different set of spectrums and methods than AT&T (1 spectrum for uploads, 1 for downloads as opposed to AT&T's 1 spectrum for up and down).
Your current tmobile phone will not get 3g at all.
so essentially you'll be forced to their new plan and you have no say with what you can pretty much get since you know you have to get their $25, 2gb data plan + voice + $20 unlimited text message for sure. the only choice in this matter is whether you're going to downgrade to 200mb (i think not) and which voice plan will you be using.
so yes, they will honor the old contract, but only if you keep your old phone or buy phones at full price from at&t or somewhere else that works with at&t's bands.
tep065 said:
on NPR, they said AT&T promised that it would move 5000 call center jobs back to the US, and NO T-Mobile call center people would loose their jobs. I'm not a fan of AT&T and would prolly switch to Sprint once the merger happens. BUT, wouldn't AT&T have to honor all the current contracts at those rates and services and grandfather them for renewal? So if your T-Mo now, you would be able to stay at your current plan indefinitely? It would just effect new customers..no? Plus i've an upgrade available and have been eyeballing the Ruby So would rather not have to switch carriers.
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I'm sure they would honor it, but having technologies that don't work together would require a lot of people to "upgrade" and sign a new contract with different rates.
As for the jobs, yes they may have the call center jobs, but what about techs, or duplication of retail stores within a certain area. How many of those would be shut down and people lose their jobs? If they really cared about bringing the jobs home and not just cash, they would've done it already.
To me it just looks like AT&T trying to prevent themselves from sinking in the long run. T-Mobile brought out 4G first, Verizon got the iPhone. Other than having the iPhone first, I don't really see much coming out of them. If this doesn't go through, it wouldn't surprise me to see Spring getting a much larger market share in the next 3-7 years.
On a side note, saw this on bloomberg this morning:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...h-new-t-mobile-buyer-real-m-a.html?cmpid=yhoo
T-mobile to lose $12billion if merger is or isn't done, already lost 600,000+ subscribers and income down 55% since 2011.. holy hell!
kaijura said:
On a side note, saw this on bloomberg this morning:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...h-new-t-mobile-buyer-real-m-a.html?cmpid=yhoo
T-mobile to lose $12billion if merger is or isn't done, already lost 600,000+ subscribers and income down 55% since 2011.. holy hell!
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I think it was pretty well known that T-mobile (and Sprint) is in a really tough spot right now. Neither company has been making money or increasing subscribers in a long long time.