Related
? Video Playback format: H.263, MPEG4, & WMV
? 5~8 fps @ VGA decoding for H.263 & MPEG4
? Min. 30 fps @ QVGA decoding for H.263 & MPEG4
? Combined Bit Rate: 64Kbps (playback)
? Video scaling up to full VGA display
This info was taken directly from the Service manual Mike Channon so kindly provided us with. Thanks again.
However, if this info is anything to go buy, we are in serious trouble. Can anyone see something between the lines that I'm missing here?
Apparently WMP supports the Imageon Hardware, right? But at what fps for VGA encoded vids? 5 ~ 8 fps?
Are they nuts!! Or am I?? No wonder the Athena can't handle VGA vids. thus re-emphasizing the absolute need for the hardware decoder (Imageon), to help or even better, take over the processing/decoding of the vids.
This is not good news!
Combined bit rate of 64 kbps!! OK that does it, they are nuts! Should have trusted my instincts from the beginning. If a device can only record with a limited bitrate and resolution for video, that's indicative of its decoding abilities too.
Like I said QVGA resolution of 320x240 or even slightly higher @ 480x320 will return satisfactory results, but anything above that will strain the Athena's resources.
And yes, whilst using TCPMP or even WMP10 are able to cope with more than what the service manual states, it doesn't look like it's supposed to.
Lastly, I think encoding AMR Audio and MPEG4 H.263 (ASP - NOT H.264 AVC) might yield better performance in higher resolution videos, as this is supposedly supported by the Imageon hardware decoder.
I'm seriously NOT impressed. Its about time that HTC the world leaders in PPC manufacturing started thinking about making devices with a dedicated 3D/Video accelerator to completely alleviate the strain of the main CPU when it comes to 3D Graphics rendering (whether for TomTom or Games) or Video playback.
The soon to be released HTC Kaiser is a step in the right direction with its Qualcomm 7200 dual-processor (one for phone and one exclusively for applications), but it's still not good enough.
The o2 Flame had the right idea with its Nvidia 3D Mobile CPU and 520 MHz CPU, but apparently it doesn't work as well as expected.
The Dell x51v still outperforms the Athena by an embarrassingly large margin for video playback and their 2700 3D processor still outperforms every other PDA ever made!! If only they had a Phone application to boot, I'd have one of them.
I get it now, the Athena and these new devices coming out every five minutes are very good, but being an all-in-one solution was never the goal of the manufacturers now was it?
It's always been about the money and always will be.
I'd love to get a group of developers, programers and hardware gurus together (with specialist knowledge) and improve on the Athena, because I think it is the best base model PPC to take things to another level, but even if I had the cash....the likes of HTC would bury us in a second and release something that would blow our efforts so far out of the water before we could manufacture the prototype.LoL
At least it would kick start these greedy companies to start giving us end users what is already available, but combine it into one device...as opposed to giving us snippets of new technology one device after another.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I still think that the biggest disappointment is that ATI won't tell "us" how to use the hardware decoder...
The figures in the service manual could just be a result of HTC not testing the video support fully...
And after all: Its main purpose is not to be a device for playing video. That's just a bonus...
the joke is that although the athena can be made to play decent xvids after lots of tweaking , my 2 year old PSP blows it away for reliabilty
(lip synch comes to mind) and the picture quality matches and often betters it esp at the higher PMP and AVC resolutions.
I Think THE only true Way forward is the UMPC route I.e. Shift type device. Sadly it appears the idiots have dropped VOICE and GPRS from this machine
spacecat said:
the joke is that although the athena can be made to play decent xvids after lots of tweaking , my 2 year old PSP blows it away for reliabilty
(lip synch comes to mind) and the picture quality matches and often betters it esp at the higher PMP and AVC resolutions.
I Think THE only true Way forward is the UMPC route I.e. Shift type device. Sadly it appears the idiots have dropped VOICE and GPRS from this machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you totally on this spacecat. The PSP's 16million pixel screen is the nuts and it's hard to find any pixelation in movie playback even at QVGA encoded vids.
@ wgary. I hear you, but its not only business users they should aim these devices at. Internet and e-mail is now so commonplace as well as mobile phone technology, that they should be aiming at a wider audience.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sony made more sales with the PSP than HTC with their last 5 devices! Why? because Sony tries to give people what they want, whilst WM devices give us what we need. Just wish these tech giants would learn from each other and bring us true 'Ultimate' devices based on all these meta-technologies.
Blow the retail cost to the consumer. People will always buy what they want and there will always be those who can afford it and those that can't just at the minute. I'm happy enough to fall into the latter category as long as the tech develops into this area.
mackaby007 said:
Agree with you totally on this spacecat. The PSP's 16million pixel screen is the nuts and it's hard to find any pixelation in movie playback even at QVGA encoded vids.
@ wgary. I hear you, but its not only business users they should aim these devices at. Internet and e-mail is now so commonplace as well as mobile phone technology, that they should be aiming at a wider audience.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sony made more sales with the PSP than HTC with their last 5 devices! Why? because Sony tries to give people what they want, whilst WM devices give us what we need. Just wish these tech giants would learn from each other and bring us true 'Ultimate' devices based on all these meta-technologies.
Blow the retail cost to the consumer. People will always buy what they want and there will always be those who can afford it and those that can't just at the minute. I'm happy enough to fall into the latter category as long as the tech develops into this area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wanted a cheaper PS3...sony never gave me that
Mackaby007,
I find it difficult to comprehend your disappointment.
You're getting too technical into this. Just enjoy watching the excellent movie quality of this device instead of counting the fps, would you? This is not a home theatre system for goodness sake. Also, the service manual may be just talking about the minimum critieria, rather than the actual performance, which could differ from unit to unit, just like some unit is able to overclock better than the others but officially set at a lower rate.
Look at the video that you posted. It is absolutely amazing. It is still not good enough, I think you're being too picky. Look at the 90% full, not 10% empty in this glass!
eaglesteve said:
Mackaby007,
I find it difficult to comprehend your disappointment.
You're getting too technical into this. Just enjoy watching the excellent movie quality of this device instead of counting the fps, would you? This is not a home theatre system for goodness sake. Also, the service manual may be just talking about the minimum critieria, rather than the actual performance, which could differ from unit to unit, just like some unit is able to overclock better than the others but officially set at a lower rate.
Look at the video that you posted. It is absolutely amazing. It is still not good enough, I think you're being too picky. Look at the 90% full, not 10% empty in this glass!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for around £650 for what is basically a phone with extras expectations are justifiably HIGH!
you would think the machine could at least run movies at its OWN full resolution wouldnt you? I love my Athena in many ways but it still has some unjustifable issues, especially as it has a ATI chip that should be able to run movies decently an without lip synch errors
It shouldnt be such HARD work
I still blame ATI for most of our video problems.
However, I am now (after mackaboy helped me out) more satisfied with my Athena as a video device than I am with my Archos AV420 (which is a dedicated video-playing device). The screen on the Athena is bigger, and it supports more formats.
For me, size and shape of the screen and the fact that it is part of a all encompassing device, is far far more important than whether of not it drop a frame. In most cases, the source of my download is already very far from perfect, so it makes no sense to think about frame drop. I could not tell if there is any frame drop in most cases, as they look so perfect to me already. Being too concerned with that would only kill your enjoyment If I am after real good quality video and sound, I would'nt be watching it on this device. I'll be using my home theatre system and treat my senses with real subwolfer, AC-3 sound effect, and real high definition pictures. This is not to say that I accept any quality movies on the device. I'm saying that it is more than adequate already.
eaglesteve said:
For me, size and shape of the screen and the fact that it is part of a all encompassing device, is far far more important than whether of not it drop a frame. In most cases, the source of my download is already very far from perfect, so it makes no sense to think about frame drop. I could not tell if there is any frame drop in most cases, as they look so perfect to me already. Being too concerned with that would only kill your enjoyment If I am after real good quality video and sound, I would'nt be watching it on this device. I'll be using my home theatre system and treat my senses with real subwolfer, AC-3 sound effect, and real high definition pictures. This is not to say that I accept any quality movies on the device. I'm saying that it is more than adequate already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as I said my psp can blow it away for quality and reliabilty and it costs
only 100 pounds and is over 2 years old. its not good enough
OK guys let's not get into an argument, we are all just expressing our opinions and in some cases, venting as I didn't get what was advertised on the box and I paid heavily to have this unit. Thanks spacecat, you summed it up perfectly.
Moskus, your right too. It is down to the ATI chip, but the Hermes got fixed through the AKU 3.5 ROM etc with some tweaks, I think we'll get there in the end.
@eaglesteve. Whilst I respect your right to express your views and sometimes agree with them too, I simply disagree with you on this. Spacecat really hit the nail on the head in his post about cost of device vs incapability to play vis at its own resolution.
Let's not get it twisted either, just because these devices were aimed at mostly business people on the move etc.....the software certainly isn't.
Personally, my Athena is my personal all-in-one Mobile-communication/GPS entertainment System. That is why I bought it, because the specs and HTC's own write up advertised it as such. As it's not performing to expectation (only in this video department), I am disappointed eaglesteve. It is a main part of why I bought it and relates to what I do for a living. Not being picky mate.
Anyway, no offense taken. Just want to clarify why I'm always on about video playback. I'm hoping to hear back from Betaboy about what is really needed from ATI/AMD so maybe us paying customers can put a petition together or use whatever resources we have as a community to put pressure on either HTC or ATI/AMD to give us the needed info so Corecodec or another developer can solve this once and for all.
As Moskus always says, it is down to the Imageon Chip.
Peace my friends.
I don't really understand what all the fuss is about re video playback on the Athena. I have a very large collection of divx and xvid movies and TV series, mostly downloaded from torrents. I simply download them, copy to the microdrive, and watch them (using tcpmp) with no problems. The picture is crystal clear, no stuttering, and I have no problems with the audio lagging.
I can't tell you about framerates or benchmarks as I've never needed to tweak TCPMP, it always looks fine.
So there is at least one satisfied customer re videos on the Athena - me!
Each to their I guess, but I'm plodding on.
Pantaloonie said:
I don't really understand what all the fuss is about re video playback on the Athena. I have a very large collection of divx and xvid movies and TV series, mostly downloaded from torrents. I simply download them, copy to the microdrive, and watch them (using tcpmp) with no problems. The picture is crystal clear, no stuttering, and I have no problems with the audio lagging.
I can't tell you about framerates or benchmarks as I've never needed to tweak TCPMP, it always looks fine.
So there is at least one satisfied customer re videos on the Athena - me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy for you Some of us are perfectionists though, and I've seen 640x480 VGA encoded vids from High def sources and believe me its as good to look at as High Def on a top end PC screen. The detail you see changes your viewing pleasure...it's like the difference between DVD's and Ultra High def in a mobile screen.
All those who have not experienced this quality wouldn't really appreciate what I'm talking about.
Nothing in life is perfect, but striving for perfection and falling short of it is still better than accepting what we already have.
Isn't that how progress works? It certainly does for me and I've never been displeased with my results after I've giving it my best.
If you're happy with what you have, then really, that is great and you are a lucky man/woman, but I always like to push the boat out that little bit more.
Can't remember who just posted to this effect about prefering the Athena to their dedicated Archos, but that is very pleasing to hear and quite encouraging.
P.S. I had perfect HQ vids on a 200 MHz Omap based WM5 QVGA device with no issues at all! Why is it so unreasonable for me to want the same from a 624 MHz CPU with a Video accelerator on a VGA screen? hmmm?
mackaby007,
You are like an ungrateful mad scientist Just kidding, but I am with you on this and I do understand what you are saying. Let me try to keep it short and sweet.
You also made an excellent point that a lot people might have missed. We can't all be experts and our development cycles are different. Some of us set higher expectations and achieve greater goals which is the reason why there are not too many Bill Gates in the world.
Nonetheless, I would like to see better picture too because this device was more expensive than my PS3 which I enjoy watching BD-DVD movies on a 70'' 1080P TV.
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
spzero said:
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting....never heard of the x9500.
lpsi2000 said:
mackaby007,
You are like an ungrateful mad scientist Just kidding, but I am with you on this and I do understand what you are saying. Let me try to keep it short and sweet.
You also made an excellent point that a lot people might have missed. We can't all be experts and our development cycles are different. Some of us set higher expectations and achieve greater goals which is the reason why there are not too many Bill Gates in the world.
Nonetheless, I would like to see better picture too because this device was more expensive than my PS3 which I enjoy watching BD-DVD movies on a 70'' 1080P TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said and it was short and to the point.
basically it comes down to bang for buck.
A £650 machine that is outclassed by a 2 year old machine at £100 does not offer bang for buck in terms of Video playback.
I really enjoy my Ameo esp the big screen for HSDPA surfing, streaming my live TV and videos from my home PC via Orb, reading books via pdf,music, etc etc
but you would think if it has a 640x480 screen and they promote this fact bigstyle then it should be able to display video at this resolution
I would be very interested in a shift type device as long as it also has Phone functionality, .............................
hmmm will it suppport 800x600 resolution video ..oh dear
spzero said:
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi spzero,
So you mean that shift and shangrila are slightly different machine? There are conflicting news on this it seems. Some says they are the same, some say they are different. Do you have a link to your source of info please?
Thanks and cheers.
How do we delete duplicate post (by mistake)?
For the most part, the transformer tablet has been getting excellent reviews on amazon:
Asus eee pad transformer tablet reviews
However, there will always be haters, like someone wrote:
-Construction of the device not as good as the Xoom or Ipad 2 (there is some creaking)
-back light bleeding
-Tegra 2's video playback limitations (the device cannot playback high profile video 720p and up, which almost everybody uses)
*what this means is the your are going to be spending many hours encoding your high profile video to baseline profile to work on this device. Not only is it time consuming, but baseline profile will increase the file size up the 4x
-at the moment flash video playback stutters whenever playing anything HD
-app selection is not as great as Ipad at the moment
I have the tablet (two of them) and do not have any of the issues above... sure there are issues with the HQ video play back but that is not the fault of the tegra2 but the OS which I'm told has been fixed in latest release?
All of those issues have been discussed on this very board, so he's not just pulling stuff out of his ass.
Some of those can be fixed in future updates, but there's no guarantee. And until Google releases the Honeycomb source (which I'm really hoping they do, and soon!) it will be very hard for the community to fix software issues that exist outside the kernel.
Edit: Should say that despite those listed issues, I'm still really wanting to get this tablet. I possibly have too much faith in Google & Asus though.
I have no creaking, and no light bleed - maybe I'm just lucky, dunno.
As for the playback limitations, it's true... but who in his right mind would want to watch a 1080p movie on a 10-inch tablet?
I have slight creaking only in one spot.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
PublicJohnDoe said:
As for the playback limitations, it's true... but who in his right mind would want to watch a 1080p movie on a 10-inch tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of people, actually.
The issue isn't about resolution but convenience. The Transformer can never show 1080p content at full resolution (at least not without HDMI out) because the resolution on the thing is only 1280x800, which is fine for a 10" tablet. The people asking for 1080p support know that, they aren't asking for the device to do the impossible, they just want it to be able to play their 1080p content while downrezzing to 1280x800 in realtime so they don't have to spend time transcoding 1080p content they already have (because they watch it on their big TV or computer screen).
A device where you can just copy/stream your existing 1080p content over with no transcoding and watch it at full speed is very compelling and many people would love a tablet capable of doing this, myself included. As it stands right now, the Transformer is not such a tablet.
Of course, the actual issue here is Nvidia and Google's, not Asus's, but most end consumers don't know that (nor should they be expected to).
I love my Transformer and use it all the time and the pros outweigh the cons by a lot so I personally wouldn't bother nicking it in reviews the way some people are, but nothing mentioned in the OP is really incorrect. Mine doesn't have creaking or light bleed issues, but it does have an annoying-sized dust spot under the glass that it came with out of the box so I'm willing to believe they are letting some things slip in QA because of their supply limitations and so when people complain about those other things, I believe they are telling the truth even if my device doesn't have those issues... I doubt everyone else's Transformer has a dust bunny under their glass, but mine sure does. The other issues (problems with video playback and app selection) are outside of Asus' control, but still valid issues.
gmcbay said:
Lots of people, actually.
Of course, the actual issue here is Nvidia and Google's, not Asus's, but most end consumers don't know that (nor should they be expected to).
I love my Transformer and use it all the time and the pros outweigh the cons by a lot so I personally wouldn't bother nicking it in reviews the way some people are, but nothing mentioned in the OP is really incorrect. Mine doesn't have creaking or light bleed issues, but it does have an annoying-sized dust spot under the glass that it came with out of the box so I'm willing to believe they are letting some things slip in QA because of their supply limitations and so when people complain about those other things, I believe they are telling the truth even if my device doesn't have those issues... I doubt everyone else's Transformer has a dust bunny under their glass, but mine sure does. The other issues (problems with video playback and app selection) are outside of Asus' control, but still valid issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exact same thing. No creaking or light bleed but I do have some dust under the screen in one spot and it is a tad annoying sometimes.
PublicJohnDoe said:
As for the playback limitations, it's true... but who in his right mind would want to watch a 1080p movie on a 10-inch tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is this question even asked? Isn't that obvious that many people would want to connect the tablet to a TV and use it for watching 1080p movies through HDMI? And why are you suddenly a hater when you list all the problems you have with the device in a review? I think it's a very useful list for everyone who wants to buy a Trasnformer. I find that the so called "haters" write most useful reviews.
dotpro said:
For the most part, the transformer tablet has been getting excellent reviews on amazon:
Asus eee pad transformer tablet reviews
However, there will always be haters, like someone wrote:
-Construction of the device not as good as the Xoom or Ipad 2 (there is some creaking)
-back light bleeding
-Tegra 2's video playback limitations (the device cannot playback high profile video 720p and up, which almost everybody uses)
*what this means is the your are going to be spending many hours encoding your high profile video to baseline profile to work on this device. Not only is it time consuming, but baseline profile will increase the file size up the 4x
-at the moment flash video playback stutters whenever playing anything HD
-app selection is not as great as Ipad at the moment
I have the tablet (two of them) and do not have any of the issues above... sure there are issues with the HQ video play back but that is not the fault of the tegra2 but the OS which I'm told has been fixed in latest release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being told video lag was fixed on latest update
I just looked at the review on Amazon and the guy did a pretty good job. He listed not only bad things about Transformer like OP would lead us to believe but also the good ones. Here is the review: http://www.amazon.com/review/R344X0QWNRS2H7/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R344X0QWNRS2H7
Vigneshd said:
Exact same thing. No creaking or light bleed but I do have some dust under the screen in one spot and it is a tad annoying sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dust under the screen would be a deal breaker for me.
I would exchange it until they get it right.
I can understand a used tablet having issues but a brand new tablet should be flawless.
I should be getting mine next week and will be looking for any of the defects listed on this forum.
If we accept poor quality control, we are telling the manufacturer we have low standards and they will not improve the quality.
Nascar Dog said:
Dust under the screen would be a deal breaker for me.
I would exchange it until they get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally I'd agree with you but there are no units in stock to do exchanges for.
I'm sure I could send the unit into ASUS directly as an RMA, but then that means not having access to the tablet for weeks, months... who knows? So for now I'm just trying to live with it.
dotpro said:
For the most part, the transformer tablet has been getting excellent reviews on amazon:
Asus eee pad transformer tablet reviews
However, there will always be haters, like someone wrote:
-Construction of the device not as good as the Xoom or Ipad 2 (there is some creaking)
-back light bleeding
-Tegra 2's video playback limitations (the device cannot playback high profile video 720p and up, which almost everybody uses)
*what this means is the your are going to be spending many hours encoding your high profile video to baseline profile to work on this device. Not only is it time consuming, but baseline profile will increase the file size up the 4x
-at the moment flash video playback stutters whenever playing anything HD
-app selection is not as great as Ipad at the moment
I have the tablet (two of them) and do not have any of the issues above... sure there are issues with the HQ video play back but that is not the fault of the tegra2 but the OS which I'm told has been fixed in latest release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but that is not a hater, but someone with his/her own personal opinion.
LordLugard said:
Sorry, but that is not a hater, but someone with his/her own personal opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I posted my review with my bricking experience and it is being downvoted. Fanbois will be fanbois, no matter the platform.
Surprised they haven't told you to JUST BUY AN IPAD!!!! That is also a standard response when you raise any questions about Honeycomb or the tablets it runs on. The OS is not going to get any better if we just accept its problems without complaint.
gmcbay said:
[SNIP]
I doubt everyone else's Transformer has a dust bunny under their glass, but mine sure does. The other issues (problems with video playback and app selection) are outside of Asus' control, but still valid issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry to hear about the dust under the screen - that would annoy me, especially when reading a book. This may not help but have you tried getting a plastic comb really staticky and moving it above the spot to see if you can move the dust speck out of the way? I seem to recall doing this to an old watch with a similar problem but, of course, this may not be as simple.
I'm pretty new to Android (3.1).
My eeePad and dock arrived just 2 days ago so I'm still getting the hang of things.
Today a friend came over and we experimented, comparing our iPad (version 1) with the TS.
Both have 16 GB of RAM.
What was amazing to me was how much slower the downloads were for the Transformer for both music and video, lots of buffering before anything comes on the screen.
That didn't happen with the iPad, viewing them side by side with the same Wi-Fi connection.
Is there something in the settings I'm missing?
The video quality was slightly different.
Again this may be partially a settings issue.
We noted that the colors in the iPad were some what more saturated in comparison with the Transformer.
The Transformer audio with the built in speakers are very tinny.
You really need ear phones to experience the real fidelity.
It's like night and day!
When using SKYPE, the screen in landscape (in dock) rotates 90 degrees when you want to make a call.
I found that odd.
Is this just a phenomenon of this application?
Flash Support observation: I use lynda.com and their Flash videos leave something to be desired. When I contacted them, however, they told me that they were working on tablet versions of their Flash-based video tutorials. For now you can hear them, but the video is not clear.
Lots more to learn and try!
Hi all, just nabbed a 7.7 today moving away from the p1000. I started playing around with the camera and I immediately noticed some oddities especially when switching to video mode set at 720p quality.
Below are screenshots taken with my SGS 2, where I placed the tablet stationary at a certain distance from my printer and tested different resolution settings on the camera, while maintaining the tablet in same position at all times.
First a test with the picture mode, the distances between 480p and the highest quality isn't very noticeable but it's there,
480p
Highest quality with widescreen
This, I have no problems whatsoever, taking pictures still feels the same as the p1000 and that's good because I'm used to that.
Next is where I am really confused. When switching to video mode, I noticed the entire printer seems to be zoomed in closer and the graininess has increased drastically (I suspect the increased in graininess comes from zooming too close to it). I have checked everywhere in the menu to look for zoom settings but alas, after googling around the tablet's default camera app doesn't support zoom at all. Which brings me to an even bigger problem, as it just feels out of place when everything is zoomed in whenever I wanted to take a video recording. After turning down the quality to 480p, it felt so much better with the distancing between the object and the camera. Pics below will show the comparison between both settings,
480p video
720p video
Is everyone else having this same oddity with their camera as well? I hope its not a 'normal' thing cause I'd be hating it immensely (just using 480p mode in the meantime) :|
any kind sgt owners willing to test this out for me and give a feedback?
at least I could pinpoint if its a hardware or software problem, if its different between other tablets.
I am having the same problem. I was wanting to use my 7.7 as a uStream live streaming device for some of our company events, and because of this problem, I am using my phone instead, which sucks because phone calls can interupt!
Anyone else notice vid camera zoomed all of the way in, with no other way to zoom out. Is there a fix?
I have never used 720p video recording before, but after reading this thread I just tried it. Same problem as reported. On 480p everything works fine, but on 720p vid is zoomed in alot. Also quality is way worse than on 480p.
I guess without this thread I would have never noticed that, but this is indeed a huge bug that should not happen on final software for an expensive device like this.
It is advertised with hd video recording after all...
thanks guys for the feedback!
I was almost tempted to try another firmware but with different SGT 7.7's out there affected by this bug, it needs to be reported.
I am pretty sure it is a software problem which is causing the camera to zoom in on HD mode (digital zooming is possible with third party software as I have tried it)
Also, because it is always digitally zoomed in, the quality/graininess will be a lot worse, this is what every tab 7.7 owner will be looking at.
Could anyone guide me to report this directly to Samsung? I'm hoping its fixed before official ICS!
bump, anyone else having the same issues with their camera just give a feedback here.
+1
Also the text is cut off in settings when in landscape.. geez
I have the same issue. Tried using a video recorder app off the market and it would digital zoom 720p and 480p so that wasn't any help.
Sent from Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.7 4G
mgleed said:
I have the same issue. Tried using a video recorder app off the market and it would digital zoom 720p and 480p so that wasn't any help.
Sent from Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.7 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeap great feedback
please guys, I am sure this is a worldwide problem for every sgt 7.7 out there,
the default factory setting on the camera is broken
need some experts on this issue and if there's a possible fix
Anyone running XXLC3 rom from mars? Since im still on XXLA4, but i have deodexed XXLC3 rom, so later these evening i'll test the latest camera to see how far this bug goes..
anyone with the new official ICS rom be able to test the camera out to see if they resolved this problem in a stealth fix?
my tab's with mum so I can't try it
I will forever be in your debt
Just installed open Austria ICS and the bug is still there
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium
kishd said:
Just installed open Austria ICS and the bug is still there
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow that sucks ! I dont have the sgt 7.7 with me but this is too serious to be overlooked
i guess based on the amount of responses in this thread most of the tab owners never really cared about 720p video recording
this is my FINAL samsung android product... I feel that they have dropped the ball this time, their pinnacle being SGS 2 and I will always remember the younger days when samsung was focused on something good,
now they are just releasing products like different branded cereal without even tasting them first.
someone explained this one to me before since I hate the 'zoom' effect of the screen as well, but as per his explanation, this could be due to the camera pixel, we have a 3.2 on board camera, using it in 3.2mpxl snapper makes use of the whole image sensor pixel array. using the 720P video on the other hand will use only a portion of that array and the software automatically fill the screen. I don't have an explanation regarding the full screen, un-zoomed 480P though,
I dont find this as a problem but if we can just have this adjusted (zoom in and out) it would be much better
Sammy juat stopped caring about their tabs. Gs3 is making sales targets. Thats good enough for them. Too bad! 7 inch market is super competative. If they dont act fast they will lose just like blackbery and their underdeveloped playbok
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda app-developers app
haksam said:
anyone with the new official ICS rom be able to test the camera out to see if they resolved this problem in a stealth fix?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am so angry I'm considering ditching Samsung. ICS finally arrived in the UK via Kies a couple of days ago. I didn't have this issue with Honeycomb but now with ICS my P6800 video camera, when in HD mode displays a zoomed image. The only reason I;m not ditching it right now is because of the SuperAMOLED screen - the same reason I paid silly money for it when I could have gotten a Nexus.
I have done some recherching and found out this is not a bug! Many devices have this. I'll try to explain what happens:
If you record videos in HD, your device has to downscale the video to show it to you on display while at the same time saving it in HD resolution and keeping the promised frame rate. This needs too much processing power, framerate would just drop. So they use a little trick: If you don't downscale the preview but only show a small part of what the sensor gets you save alot of processing power. But on the other hand it gives you the noticed "zoomed-in" look, also the image quality is less because it does not use the whole sensor (like it would on a still).
The saved video should look normal (not zoomed-in).
Hope my english is not too bad so you can understand what I mean
Camera ics + doesnt zoom in when recording ^^
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium
boelze said:
I have done some recherching and found out this is not a bug! Many devices have this. I'll try to explain what happens:
If you record videos in HD, your device has to downscale the video to show it to you on display while at the same time saving it in HD resolution and keeping the promised frame rate. This needs too much processing power, framerate would just drop. So they use a little trick: If you don't downscale the preview but only show a small part of what the sensor gets you save alot of processing power. But on the other hand it gives you the noticed "zoomed-in" look, also the image quality is less because it does not use the whole sensor (like it would on a still).
The saved video should look normal (not zoomed-in).
Hope my english is not too bad so you can understand what I mean
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried recording but when playing back its the same image quality as recording it does not change
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium
Standard poor copy-paste response from Samsung, which appear not to acknowledge that the device isn't a telephone:
Thank you for contacting Samsung and I have pleasure in providing the following assistance.
I’m sorry you are having issues with your device after upgrading the firmware. I can understand your frustration about this.
Old systems settings can be left on the phone after an update occurs, which is why we usually recommend a full factory reset after updating. If this isn’t done your device may begin to give false readings from system resources, or experience technical problems, which may explain the issue you are having.
We would advise on doing the following, which is designed to reset the settings on your device. Please back up your device using Samsung KIES before you do this.
1) Remove the battery for at least 40 minutes, put the battery back in and allow it to fully discharge. Afterwards, perform a full battery charge with the device turned off. Do not interrupt the charging process.
2) After the battery is fully charged, we would like you to perform a full factory reset, which can be done via Settings > Backup > Reset.
This process will reset your device, remove old system files that are no longer needed and enable your device to operate normally again.
Please let us know if your device continues to experience problems after the reset so we can investigate further.
If you require any further assistance, please contact Samsung again and we will be more than happy to help.
Kind regards
SEUK ERMS
Online Support Team
SAMSUNG Customer Support Centre
---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------
boelze said:
I have done some recherching and found out this is not a bug! Many devices have this. I'll try to explain what happens:
If you record videos in HD, your device has to downscale the video to show it to you on display while at the same time saving it in HD resolution and keeping the promised frame rate. This needs too much processing power, framerate would just drop. So they use a little trick: If you don't downscale the preview but only show a small part of what the sensor gets you save alot of processing power. But on the other hand it gives you the noticed "zoomed-in" look, also the image quality is less because it does not use the whole sensor (like it would on a still).
The saved video should look normal (not zoomed-in).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must respectfully disagree. If that were the case then the behaviour should have been the same prior to the ICS update. Also, when copying the video off the device and playing it back on a FullHD capable device the quality is still poor.
I just received my Google Nexus 10 yesterday. After reading all the great reviews about the video quality I must admit I was shocked how poor it was. Don't get me wrong, it isn't awful by any stretch. The detail is certainly there and there is so much detail it might actually be detriment to the product because I can pick up compression artifacts and pixelization I didn't even know was there on some of my videos. However, this really leads in to what I think the source of the problem is on this device, that is, the black level. The first video I took a look at was Ice Age since it came with the N10. If black level is off on animations they can look washed out and it certainly did in this case. My projector on a 100" screen could actually reflect a better image in my opinion. Moving over to other videos like a 1080p MKV of Battleship displayed some improvement, but the poor black levels were still there. Oh, and I should mention this was with using MX Player.
So, are others seeing something similar? Again, I'm not trying to really downplay the image entirely because the detail is certainly there, but again, I'm disappointed by the black level. Is there possibly a way to adjust it that I'm not aware of? All I can seemingly find is Brightness and that doesn't do enough. Perhaps a gamma control would help? Any guidance from others is appreciated.
U get ice age free with N10?
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
verusevo said:
U get ice age free with N10?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
2 posts? Troll?
Techie2012 said:
2 posts? Troll?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the welcome. Did people say the same about you when you had 2 posts? Trust me, your accusation is utterly ridiculous. This is simply my first Android device and this was my initial impression. I hoped that there might be some kind of workaround or fix so I simply did a Google search for a Nexus 10 forum and wound up here. As I allued to in my initial post there are plenty of things I like about the device and black level might not be a deal killer, but if there was a way to resolve it, why not pursue it?
Techie2012 said:
2 posts? Troll?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only 245 posts and a member since February of this year? You must clearly have very little to contribute anywhere since you don't have at least a 1k post count or year+ membership (sarcasm btw; post count and join dates means absolutely nothing in determining a person's status lol)
I believe a few others have mentioned black levels not being optimal on the N10. I myself don't really see it as a problem, but then again I rarely watch videos. I believe Contrast itself might be a better option to modify over Brightness, but I'm pretty sure Contrast isn't adjustable currently.
Possibly when Kernel development matures enough, we may be able to modify screen settings, but I don't think we're there quite yet. Maybe some video players might have an option for adjustments?
Those frequenting here have varying social skills. Be tolerant.
Suggest posting some pics of screen's black level, alongside another device used as a baseline. A thousand words and all that.
Also suggest searching Play store for "display settings" and try out the various widget/apps available.
That's seriously put me off buying this tablet now.
A poor black level can ruin video quality. I know this because my laptops black level is shocking bad, picture below.
Now I might either get a Note 10.1 or wait for something with a high res screen and a good black level.
Haha you guys are funny.
Anyway back to the original question, this device has a LCD screen, and like most LCD TVs, the black is not as black as you'd like or you would see on a PlasmaTV or Amoled screen.
If black levels are highly important to you, i'm sorry to say you bought the wrong device.
Ok, so I took a previous poster's advice and got a hold of an iPad3 with Retina Display and compared it against the N10. The difference was not as significant as I thought it might be. Ultimately, I didn't think either producing razor sharp images with inky blacks and that is because they don't my own HDTV's (LED) in my home along with my home theater projector crush both devices. Why? Well, first, I wasn't aware that the contrast ratio was so poor on all the tablet devices. Most of my other products have something like a 50,000:1 contrast ratio whereas the tablets are around 1000:1, a very big difference. Also, I'm accustomed to watching BluRays on those displays. BluRay quality just doesn't seem to exist on these tablets right now. So was I expecting too much from the N10? Yes.
Spending some time with both devices side-by-side allowed me to sort of critique both on my own terms and decide which one I like best. I'm probably an atypical user so my opinions here are my own and I don't expect others to find the same items valuable.
1. Display - the iPad wins here, but not by as much as I might have thought. Whites are more warm and not as bright on the N10 when compared to the iPad. Blacks are also better on the iPad, but I expected it to be a dramatic difference. It wasn't. I've included some images to this post that will help you see the difference a bit more. There are some images where the difference looks very pronounced, but that is the digital camera really exposing the faults of the N10 and making them appear more significant. I wouldn't say that is the case in reality. Also, something you'll notice from the images is the light leak. It is there on the N10, but not on the iPad. Too bad Samsung couldn't have done a better job here. It would have made it appear as a more quality product.
2. Form Factor - I find the form factor of the iPad better than the N10. I like to use portrait mode more often than most I think and the iPad gives you more space to work from horizontally when doing so. This makes web browsing much easier and I actually feel more cramped using the N10 to browse via landscape. I would MUCH prefer the N10 to have the iPad's shape.
3. Weight - I would have never thought 50 grams or whatever it is would make a difference, but to me it does and the N10 is a clear winner here. After handling both devices for some time I simply enjoyed holding the N10 more. The lightness made for a more enjoyable experience.
4. Rubber Backing - When I saw on this on the N10 I thought it was sort of a gimmick, but I really like it. Again, it just seems to feel more comfortable holding it.
5. Heat - I have no idea why, but the back of the iPad got pretty hot while using it. The N10 had some slight warmth, but ever since I've used it it has stayed relatively cool.
6. Speakers - The N10 really crushes the iPad here. The front two speakers are awesome and can push out good volume. Going back to the iPad with its rear mono speaker almost feels silly in comparison.
7. Web Browsing - The winner here is the iPad. Pages came up more quickly, they are easier to scroll through (only slightly), and are displayed better. In portrait mode the clear winner is the iPad since you have more horizontal space to work with, something I like.
8. Off-axis viewing - Not that you ever really need this because tablets are really made for a one person audience to be looking at the device head-on, but I did notice it. For whatever reason the iPad had a better image once you move off-axis from the device. The N10 was washed out more quickly as you moved off-axis.
9. Bugs - Oh man, Jelly Bean has them. I have essentially the base image on the N10 and I've already seen the battery information incorrect (stuck), freezes, my folders just disappearing after the device becoming frozen, and some other very quirky things. The iPad in comparison was stable. The iPad just feels a bit like driving a Lexus. It doesn't really do much to excite you, but it does what it is designed to do and does it well. The N10 is probably more like a BMW X6. Is it a sports car or an SUV? No one really knows. It does some things that are really neat, but in other categories it sort of falls apart. Just my own silly analogy.
So which will I keep. Based on all the criteria above I would say it is very close and probably a tie in my mind, but I'm leaning toward the N10. I'm not sure why, but I struggle a great deal with going to a closed environment like the iPad is. It feels boring to me and I just think I might enjoy tinkering with the N10 more. If I give it more thought I might change my mind, but for the moment this is where my head is.
I hope all this might help someone. If anyone has any questions about the comparison or the images please feel free to ask.
A lot people seem to crank the brightness even when they don't need it. The N10 with the back light turned up definitely has poor black levels but it's actually pretty decent when below 40%(more comfortable to view also)
I agree. I'm totally unimpressed by the video quality of Nexus 10. Maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but my older Galaxy Tab 2 P3100 had much better video quality than this. The colors are totally messed up and the it just seems bland and boring.
Frankly, I don't think this is an iPad killer in anyway, and I'm not an apple fanboy either. I had to download apps just to get the Volume to a reasonable level eventhough it has stereo. Wow, the ipad claims much less but delivers more, Nexus 10 claims tall but falls short.
Thinking about getting back the iPad 4 if the Nexus doesn't grow on me. Sorry, Nexus. Android has failed you :crying:
JPW1 said:
Most of my other products have something like a 50,000:1 contrast ratio whereas the tablets are around 1000:1, a very big difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 50,000:1 contrast ratio is actually dynamic contrast ratio. How dark the screen is at it's lowest brightness and how bright the screen is at it's highest brightness. It's really just a marketing gimmick.
The real static contrast ratio could be anywhere between 1000-5000:1. Not a huge difference at all.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23137918
Looking at your screenshots I can definitely say you have the brightness set waaaayyy to high on the Nexus 10. Turn it down and the picture will be drastically better.
And for the other little problems you have to wait some time. Most of them will be gone with the first good custom roms/kernels. The device is still brand new.
I tried both the Transformers and Ice Age films streaming from google play, and I thought the video was pretty poor. Wifi signal was strong.
Video quality from all the streaming services I've used on Android have relatively poor quality. If you are attempting to benchmark the device's fidelity then I suggest making a high bit rate rip of a Blu-Ray
The high bit rate 1080p and 1440p videos I've seen look pretty great, but I agree videos from streaming services look pretty awful in terms of both blurriness and contrast.
Also, the hardware decoders like most devices do not have as high of picture quality as some software decoder. For instance, for the same video the hw decoder will look softer than the sw decoder in MX Player