? Video Playback format: H.263, MPEG4, & WMV
? 5~8 fps @ VGA decoding for H.263 & MPEG4
? Min. 30 fps @ QVGA decoding for H.263 & MPEG4
? Combined Bit Rate: 64Kbps (playback)
? Video scaling up to full VGA display
This info was taken directly from the Service manual Mike Channon so kindly provided us with. Thanks again.
However, if this info is anything to go buy, we are in serious trouble. Can anyone see something between the lines that I'm missing here?
Apparently WMP supports the Imageon Hardware, right? But at what fps for VGA encoded vids? 5 ~ 8 fps?
Are they nuts!! Or am I?? No wonder the Athena can't handle VGA vids. thus re-emphasizing the absolute need for the hardware decoder (Imageon), to help or even better, take over the processing/decoding of the vids.
This is not good news!
Combined bit rate of 64 kbps!! OK that does it, they are nuts! Should have trusted my instincts from the beginning. If a device can only record with a limited bitrate and resolution for video, that's indicative of its decoding abilities too.
Like I said QVGA resolution of 320x240 or even slightly higher @ 480x320 will return satisfactory results, but anything above that will strain the Athena's resources.
And yes, whilst using TCPMP or even WMP10 are able to cope with more than what the service manual states, it doesn't look like it's supposed to.
Lastly, I think encoding AMR Audio and MPEG4 H.263 (ASP - NOT H.264 AVC) might yield better performance in higher resolution videos, as this is supposedly supported by the Imageon hardware decoder.
I'm seriously NOT impressed. Its about time that HTC the world leaders in PPC manufacturing started thinking about making devices with a dedicated 3D/Video accelerator to completely alleviate the strain of the main CPU when it comes to 3D Graphics rendering (whether for TomTom or Games) or Video playback.
The soon to be released HTC Kaiser is a step in the right direction with its Qualcomm 7200 dual-processor (one for phone and one exclusively for applications), but it's still not good enough.
The o2 Flame had the right idea with its Nvidia 3D Mobile CPU and 520 MHz CPU, but apparently it doesn't work as well as expected.
The Dell x51v still outperforms the Athena by an embarrassingly large margin for video playback and their 2700 3D processor still outperforms every other PDA ever made!! If only they had a Phone application to boot, I'd have one of them.
I get it now, the Athena and these new devices coming out every five minutes are very good, but being an all-in-one solution was never the goal of the manufacturers now was it?
It's always been about the money and always will be.
I'd love to get a group of developers, programers and hardware gurus together (with specialist knowledge) and improve on the Athena, because I think it is the best base model PPC to take things to another level, but even if I had the cash....the likes of HTC would bury us in a second and release something that would blow our efforts so far out of the water before we could manufacture the prototype.LoL
At least it would kick start these greedy companies to start giving us end users what is already available, but combine it into one device...as opposed to giving us snippets of new technology one device after another.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I still think that the biggest disappointment is that ATI won't tell "us" how to use the hardware decoder...
The figures in the service manual could just be a result of HTC not testing the video support fully...
And after all: Its main purpose is not to be a device for playing video. That's just a bonus...
the joke is that although the athena can be made to play decent xvids after lots of tweaking , my 2 year old PSP blows it away for reliabilty
(lip synch comes to mind) and the picture quality matches and often betters it esp at the higher PMP and AVC resolutions.
I Think THE only true Way forward is the UMPC route I.e. Shift type device. Sadly it appears the idiots have dropped VOICE and GPRS from this machine
spacecat said:
the joke is that although the athena can be made to play decent xvids after lots of tweaking , my 2 year old PSP blows it away for reliabilty
(lip synch comes to mind) and the picture quality matches and often betters it esp at the higher PMP and AVC resolutions.
I Think THE only true Way forward is the UMPC route I.e. Shift type device. Sadly it appears the idiots have dropped VOICE and GPRS from this machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you totally on this spacecat. The PSP's 16million pixel screen is the nuts and it's hard to find any pixelation in movie playback even at QVGA encoded vids.
@ wgary. I hear you, but its not only business users they should aim these devices at. Internet and e-mail is now so commonplace as well as mobile phone technology, that they should be aiming at a wider audience.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sony made more sales with the PSP than HTC with their last 5 devices! Why? because Sony tries to give people what they want, whilst WM devices give us what we need. Just wish these tech giants would learn from each other and bring us true 'Ultimate' devices based on all these meta-technologies.
Blow the retail cost to the consumer. People will always buy what they want and there will always be those who can afford it and those that can't just at the minute. I'm happy enough to fall into the latter category as long as the tech develops into this area.
mackaby007 said:
Agree with you totally on this spacecat. The PSP's 16million pixel screen is the nuts and it's hard to find any pixelation in movie playback even at QVGA encoded vids.
@ wgary. I hear you, but its not only business users they should aim these devices at. Internet and e-mail is now so commonplace as well as mobile phone technology, that they should be aiming at a wider audience.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sony made more sales with the PSP than HTC with their last 5 devices! Why? because Sony tries to give people what they want, whilst WM devices give us what we need. Just wish these tech giants would learn from each other and bring us true 'Ultimate' devices based on all these meta-technologies.
Blow the retail cost to the consumer. People will always buy what they want and there will always be those who can afford it and those that can't just at the minute. I'm happy enough to fall into the latter category as long as the tech develops into this area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wanted a cheaper PS3...sony never gave me that
Mackaby007,
I find it difficult to comprehend your disappointment.
You're getting too technical into this. Just enjoy watching the excellent movie quality of this device instead of counting the fps, would you? This is not a home theatre system for goodness sake. Also, the service manual may be just talking about the minimum critieria, rather than the actual performance, which could differ from unit to unit, just like some unit is able to overclock better than the others but officially set at a lower rate.
Look at the video that you posted. It is absolutely amazing. It is still not good enough, I think you're being too picky. Look at the 90% full, not 10% empty in this glass!
eaglesteve said:
Mackaby007,
I find it difficult to comprehend your disappointment.
You're getting too technical into this. Just enjoy watching the excellent movie quality of this device instead of counting the fps, would you? This is not a home theatre system for goodness sake. Also, the service manual may be just talking about the minimum critieria, rather than the actual performance, which could differ from unit to unit, just like some unit is able to overclock better than the others but officially set at a lower rate.
Look at the video that you posted. It is absolutely amazing. It is still not good enough, I think you're being too picky. Look at the 90% full, not 10% empty in this glass!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for around £650 for what is basically a phone with extras expectations are justifiably HIGH!
you would think the machine could at least run movies at its OWN full resolution wouldnt you? I love my Athena in many ways but it still has some unjustifable issues, especially as it has a ATI chip that should be able to run movies decently an without lip synch errors
It shouldnt be such HARD work
I still blame ATI for most of our video problems.
However, I am now (after mackaboy helped me out) more satisfied with my Athena as a video device than I am with my Archos AV420 (which is a dedicated video-playing device). The screen on the Athena is bigger, and it supports more formats.
For me, size and shape of the screen and the fact that it is part of a all encompassing device, is far far more important than whether of not it drop a frame. In most cases, the source of my download is already very far from perfect, so it makes no sense to think about frame drop. I could not tell if there is any frame drop in most cases, as they look so perfect to me already. Being too concerned with that would only kill your enjoyment If I am after real good quality video and sound, I would'nt be watching it on this device. I'll be using my home theatre system and treat my senses with real subwolfer, AC-3 sound effect, and real high definition pictures. This is not to say that I accept any quality movies on the device. I'm saying that it is more than adequate already.
eaglesteve said:
For me, size and shape of the screen and the fact that it is part of a all encompassing device, is far far more important than whether of not it drop a frame. In most cases, the source of my download is already very far from perfect, so it makes no sense to think about frame drop. I could not tell if there is any frame drop in most cases, as they look so perfect to me already. Being too concerned with that would only kill your enjoyment If I am after real good quality video and sound, I would'nt be watching it on this device. I'll be using my home theatre system and treat my senses with real subwolfer, AC-3 sound effect, and real high definition pictures. This is not to say that I accept any quality movies on the device. I'm saying that it is more than adequate already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as I said my psp can blow it away for quality and reliabilty and it costs
only 100 pounds and is over 2 years old. its not good enough
OK guys let's not get into an argument, we are all just expressing our opinions and in some cases, venting as I didn't get what was advertised on the box and I paid heavily to have this unit. Thanks spacecat, you summed it up perfectly.
Moskus, your right too. It is down to the ATI chip, but the Hermes got fixed through the AKU 3.5 ROM etc with some tweaks, I think we'll get there in the end.
@eaglesteve. Whilst I respect your right to express your views and sometimes agree with them too, I simply disagree with you on this. Spacecat really hit the nail on the head in his post about cost of device vs incapability to play vis at its own resolution.
Let's not get it twisted either, just because these devices were aimed at mostly business people on the move etc.....the software certainly isn't.
Personally, my Athena is my personal all-in-one Mobile-communication/GPS entertainment System. That is why I bought it, because the specs and HTC's own write up advertised it as such. As it's not performing to expectation (only in this video department), I am disappointed eaglesteve. It is a main part of why I bought it and relates to what I do for a living. Not being picky mate.
Anyway, no offense taken. Just want to clarify why I'm always on about video playback. I'm hoping to hear back from Betaboy about what is really needed from ATI/AMD so maybe us paying customers can put a petition together or use whatever resources we have as a community to put pressure on either HTC or ATI/AMD to give us the needed info so Corecodec or another developer can solve this once and for all.
As Moskus always says, it is down to the Imageon Chip.
Peace my friends.
I don't really understand what all the fuss is about re video playback on the Athena. I have a very large collection of divx and xvid movies and TV series, mostly downloaded from torrents. I simply download them, copy to the microdrive, and watch them (using tcpmp) with no problems. The picture is crystal clear, no stuttering, and I have no problems with the audio lagging.
I can't tell you about framerates or benchmarks as I've never needed to tweak TCPMP, it always looks fine.
So there is at least one satisfied customer re videos on the Athena - me!
Each to their I guess, but I'm plodding on.
Pantaloonie said:
I don't really understand what all the fuss is about re video playback on the Athena. I have a very large collection of divx and xvid movies and TV series, mostly downloaded from torrents. I simply download them, copy to the microdrive, and watch them (using tcpmp) with no problems. The picture is crystal clear, no stuttering, and I have no problems with the audio lagging.
I can't tell you about framerates or benchmarks as I've never needed to tweak TCPMP, it always looks fine.
So there is at least one satisfied customer re videos on the Athena - me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy for you Some of us are perfectionists though, and I've seen 640x480 VGA encoded vids from High def sources and believe me its as good to look at as High Def on a top end PC screen. The detail you see changes your viewing pleasure...it's like the difference between DVD's and Ultra High def in a mobile screen.
All those who have not experienced this quality wouldn't really appreciate what I'm talking about.
Nothing in life is perfect, but striving for perfection and falling short of it is still better than accepting what we already have.
Isn't that how progress works? It certainly does for me and I've never been displeased with my results after I've giving it my best.
If you're happy with what you have, then really, that is great and you are a lucky man/woman, but I always like to push the boat out that little bit more.
Can't remember who just posted to this effect about prefering the Athena to their dedicated Archos, but that is very pleasing to hear and quite encouraging.
P.S. I had perfect HQ vids on a 200 MHz Omap based WM5 QVGA device with no issues at all! Why is it so unreasonable for me to want the same from a 624 MHz CPU with a Video accelerator on a VGA screen? hmmm?
mackaby007,
You are like an ungrateful mad scientist Just kidding, but I am with you on this and I do understand what you are saying. Let me try to keep it short and sweet.
You also made an excellent point that a lot people might have missed. We can't all be experts and our development cycles are different. Some of us set higher expectations and achieve greater goals which is the reason why there are not too many Bill Gates in the world.
Nonetheless, I would like to see better picture too because this device was more expensive than my PS3 which I enjoy watching BD-DVD movies on a 70'' 1080P TV.
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
spzero said:
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting....never heard of the x9500.
lpsi2000 said:
mackaby007,
You are like an ungrateful mad scientist Just kidding, but I am with you on this and I do understand what you are saying. Let me try to keep it short and sweet.
You also made an excellent point that a lot people might have missed. We can't all be experts and our development cycles are different. Some of us set higher expectations and achieve greater goals which is the reason why there are not too many Bill Gates in the world.
Nonetheless, I would like to see better picture too because this device was more expensive than my PS3 which I enjoy watching BD-DVD movies on a 70'' 1080P TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said and it was short and to the point.
basically it comes down to bang for buck.
A £650 machine that is outclassed by a 2 year old machine at £100 does not offer bang for buck in terms of Video playback.
I really enjoy my Ameo esp the big screen for HSDPA surfing, streaming my live TV and videos from my home PC via Orb, reading books via pdf,music, etc etc
but you would think if it has a 640x480 screen and they promote this fact bigstyle then it should be able to display video at this resolution
I would be very interested in a shift type device as long as it also has Phone functionality, .............................
hmmm will it suppport 800x600 resolution video ..oh dear
spzero said:
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi spzero,
So you mean that shift and shangrila are slightly different machine? There are conflicting news on this it seems. Some says they are the same, some say they are different. Do you have a link to your source of info please?
Thanks and cheers.
How do we delete duplicate post (by mistake)?
Related
Just wondering. I have a Touch Pro, and have been pretty dissapointed by it's overall graphics performance. I'm not talking about 3d graphics either, I'm talking about watching videos, and other apps that have animated 2d graphics like games, web browsing, etc.
The 2d rendering of the TP is pretty pathetic given the cost and specs of the device. Especially in landscape mode... I don't know why, but performance drops extremely when rotating the display into Landscape. On apps that allow me to measure framerate, I see something like a 30% decrease in frames drawn in landscape.
Now, I haven't seen any such complaints on the X1, and I see them going on ebay for ~$600, and have seen used Touch Pro's get bid up to roughly $400, so I figure, if I can pay $200 for a nicer device with the kind of graphics performance that this generation of devices should be capable of, this might be something worth considering.
So what's the word... does the Xperia suffer from the same bad performance?
i feel it suffers from the same problem as touch pro, like the rest of the msm7xxx devices
the 3d acceleration is there, and video playback is quite smooth when converted using the program from the sticky
opera zooming and scrolling is somewhat faster than touch pro, and gps is definitely way better, but when it comes to gaming there is still a bit of lag comparing to some older models sadly (bejeweled 2 and quartz 2, you feel the jerkiness is there, but not enough to be lagging, emulation is just pathetic)
the panel selection is slow as heck, but i dont use it anyways, so i remapped the button to screen rotation
i dont see much slowdown when touch pro is in landscape mode from before, and right now not from x1 either, so cant help you there
coming from touch pro, im definitely happier with x1, but not quite as happy as with my old and busted dell axim x51...
Dell Axim X51v is definitely a very nice device. Friend of mine ordered one after I recommended it to him, and man it is nice. There are still NEW ones for sale on Ebay!! I have considered more than once, going back to a 'dumb phone', and getting one of those for my WinMo addiction, but that just seems so backwards when I think about it.
As far as the Touch Pro and the landscape issues... for anyone who 'doesn't see it', try running any app that lets you display frame rate, or any app that will benchmark 2d graphics drawing in both portrait and landscape.
Perfect example, use SK Tools benchmark, run the bitmap drawing portion, in portrait first, then in landscape. I have found that in landscape the phone scores consistently about 30% lower (less bitmaps drawn), and also, while it draws smoothly in portrait, in landscape you can see visible diagonal tearing (like Vsync has stopped working) as it draws the bitmaps.
I see this in browsing (tearing in opera mobile, much jerkier scrolling), in videos (visible tearing on anything resembling a moving scene), gaming (tearing and jerky frame rate), whereas in portrait these apps are more or less butter smooth.
I am frankly shocked that so many people claim that 'mine doesn't have this issue' when it's been on several Touch Pro's I have seen with my own eyes running various roms, and once I tell people where to look, they all come back and post how they see it.
If the Xperia doesn't have this issue, I will buy one in heartbeat while I can still get a decent price for the Pro!
I don't have issues with video playback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L1JLIwotMw
bast525 said:
Dell Axim X51v is definitely a very nice device. Friend of mine ordered one after I recommended it to him, and man it is nice. There are still NEW ones for sale on Ebay!! I have considered more than once, going back to a 'dumb phone', and getting one of those for my WinMo addiction, but that just seems so backwards when I think about it.
As far as the Touch Pro and the landscape issues... for anyone who 'doesn't see it', try running any app that lets you display frame rate, or any app that will benchmark 2d graphics drawing in both portrait and landscape.
Perfect example, use SK Tools benchmark, run the bitmap drawing portion, in portrait first, then in landscape. I have found that in landscape the phone scores consistently about 30% lower (less bitmaps drawn), and also, while it draws smoothly in portrait, in landscape you can see visible diagonal tearing (like Vsync has stopped working) as it draws the bitmaps.
I see this in browsing (tearing in opera mobile, much jerkier scrolling), in videos (visible tearing on anything resembling a moving scene), gaming (tearing and jerky frame rate), whereas in portrait these apps are more or less butter smooth.
I am frankly shocked that so many people claim that 'mine doesn't have this issue' when it's been on several Touch Pro's I have seen with my own eyes running various roms, and once I tell people where to look, they all come back and post how they see it.
If the Xperia doesn't have this issue, I will buy one in heartbeat while I can still get a decent price for the Pro!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a youtube video which show x1 vs touch pro in switching to and from landscape with various programs loaded...
x1 won
zenkinz said:
I don't have issues with video playback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L1JLIwotMw
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... dude... yes, you do. I saw several pauses/stutters in the video playback on the Xperia, to the point that the videos on the two devices became more and more out of sync the longer you watch the vid. They were almost spot on at the beginning. Also, even in the relatively low quality Youtube vid, you can see some tearing here or there on quick moving scenes. Overall it's not bad and probably 90% of people wouldn't care or notice.
I will say that your vid played better than what I currently get watching vids on TCPMP on my touch pro though.
bast525 said:
Um... dude... yes, you do. I saw several pauses/stutters in the video playback on the Xperia, to the point that the videos on the two devices became more and more out of sync the longer you watch the vid. They were almost spot on at the beginning. Also, even in the relatively low quality Youtube vid, you can see some tearing here or there on quick moving scenes. Overall it's not bad and probably 90% of people wouldn't care or notice.
I will say that your vid played better than what I currently get watching vids on TCPMP on my touch pro though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tcpmp and coreplayer lag big time when i play vid, but quite smooth with windows media player
bast525 said:
Um... dude... yes, you do. I saw several pauses/stutters in the video playback on the Xperia, to the point that the videos on the two devices became more and more out of sync the longer you watch the vid. They were almost spot on at the beginning. Also, even in the relatively low quality Youtube vid, you can see some tearing here or there on quick moving scenes. Overall it's not bad and probably 90% of people wouldn't care or notice.
I will say that your vid played better than what I currently get watching vids on TCPMP on my touch pro though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sharp eyes. I'm probably that 90% that won't tell the difference (even after you tell me)
zenkins what app are you using to play that movie?
coreplayer
For those who don't know, HTC has opted to not pay for the accelerated drivers for the X1. The same can be said for the Touch Pro and the Touch HD. HTC has a long history of doing this at least as far back as the Kaiser which. Even the president of the company acknowledged the issue and promised to make the drivers available. To this date, the drivers are still not available and HTC has been either non-responsive on the issue or customers have been advised to either live with it or upgrade to a newer, more expensive device which STILL does not have the proper drivers. Unless HTC gets its house in order as pertaining to these video drivers, this is the last product of theirs I will be purchasing. By the way, there have been a number of threads concerning this issue in both the X1 forums and forums for the other devices I've mentioned. Anyone who does not see the issue is either not looking hard enough or the standards are so low as pertaining to video quality that they truly don't care, but at this price premium it's really hard to justify.
Call me crazy but I was hoping that since the x1 was commissioned by Sony, that maybe they opted to pay for the drivers that htc does not. I understand that htc made the device.
What troubles me these days is that a lot of new phones have such poor video recording capabilities. My years old Nokia 6233 can film VGA @ 15FPS. This was, for it's time quite amazing. Soon the Nokia N series followed with VGA @ 30FPS.
Last week Apple introduced the Iphone 3G S. One of it's key features is the capability to record video at VGA 30FPS. This was a biggy for everyone, but I thought: WTF! What's so amazing about this?
Both HTC Android phones can now also film. This however is in very poor quality. I checked spec's from various different phones and noticed both the G1 and Magic have relatively the same spec's as Iphone's, Nokia N series etc. I got me wondering... Why is the video recording quality so poor? Is this a software issue, or is the hardware simply just not capable enough? This last thing would really surprise me when I compare the Android phones with my years old, 2 megapixel, Nokia 6233.
I'm in the market to buy a new phone. I want Android, but I also want a decent video recording capability. My question: Will the HTC G1 or Magic ever get VGA @ 30FPS recording, or is it simply not possible?
This needs to be moved to the general section. This is NOT a development question.
A lot of those phones may have a dedicated built-in video processor that can keep up with the intense amount of processing required for video processing.
dont respond to the posting until it gets moves, people need to fing learn where to post.
I think my question actually is a development question since I'm wondering wetter this is hardware capability issues or software/programming. What better place to ask then the place were people make the software and (hopefully) have knowledge of the hardware there programming on?
Hmmm, i wonder what the Dream applications and games section is for..? Oh, for things like this that doesn't involve ROM building and/or hacks possibly. Move the thread please
post moved
please post in the correct threads or your post may well end in the trash!
To finally answer your question:
There's different types of VGA @ 30 FPS. There's the "Hey, this is actually a movie" kind, and the "Hmm, what was that ? Why is it ghosting?" kind.
The camera in the G1 (and the iPhone 2G and 3G, not 3GS) is closer to the second kind. You could shoot 30 frames per second @ VGA resolution, but it would look like crap.
So if this is important to you, get another phone.
there should be a way you could do at least sharp non ghosted [email protected] or [email protected], i have no idea how open the camera is on this phone though. it would be nice to get it less shakey at a cost to resolution. like most webcams
Hello, I know that there are hundreds of you who have coreplayer, an HD2, and another Windows Mobile phone.
Can some of you post videos of coreplaying on action on both the HD2 and another phone?
I would prefer a simultaneous comparison on the same footage being played roughly at the same time (volume can be muted).
I would prefer a comparison between a 4 inch screen to a 3 inch screen.
Please please please post a video! It would be awesome and I need it to make a certain life changing decision!!!!!
What's the point? Coreplayer works better on the hd2 than on any other (except maybe that couple of phones for which it has hardware acceleration) thanks to the 1ghz cpu. Not much more to say...
kilrah said:
What's the point? Coreplayer works better on the hd2 than on any other (except maybe that couple of phones for which it has hardware acceleration) thanks to the 1ghz cpu. Not much more to say...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to see clearness and screen size, and to see if the size is actually worth it. Just saying that it is clear and big does no justice. Video representation is the best method to show you how big an object in a film really is.
People on the Xperia X1 board used to say that the screen was very big, and many enjoyed the video experience but there was no actual comparison to prove to naive people like me that 3 inches is utterly useless.
I agree with kilrah... works better than it did on my nokia e71 and my htc touch pro2
video comparison is moot, its the same program with the same features, on a faster phone with a bigger screen
What do you like and hate about your E71?
And I still want to see a video comparison, nonetheless.
poetryrocksalot said:
People on the Xperia X1 board used to say that the screen was very big, and many enjoyed the video experience but there was no actual comparison to prove to naive people like me that 3 inches is utterly useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell me why the 3 inch screen is useless?? I have crystal clear images and video on my x1... is a great little phone for vid... however the hd2 is much better in terms of size... same clarity and quality, just bigger...
So you hope to see a difference in playing a video on 2 phones with different screen sizes on a video of both? Good luck.
I could film my 37 inch tv and send you the video, it wouldn't look different to you than if I did it with my 2.8 inch phone.
Go in a store that has phones on display, and compare yourself in real life. It's the only way to get an accurate idea.
kilrah said:
So you hope to see a difference in playing a video on 2 phones with different screen sizes on a video of both? Good luck.
I could film my 37 inch tv and send you the video, it wouldn't look different to you than if I did it with my 2.8 inch phone.
Go in a store that has phones on display, and compare yourself in real life. It's the only way to get an accurate idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't have HD2 on display in America. Look at where I am from.
I got to compare my brother's HTC Touch Pro2 to my Xperia X1 and learned that even 3.5 inch screen is not good enough for me to watch a movie on the plane. And guess what, damn it, before I get to compare the damn devices, I was 100% certain that the 3.5 inch display would be enough for me.
Nope.
Even my brother said that the screen size for video playback was awesome. Nope, not for me. But I do enjoy watching movies on my laptop, I just want to know what the minimal size for me is.
So.......I wish I could have the damn HD2 so that I can compare to the Touch Pro2 and Xperia...but no, it's not in America....yet...and besides that, damn it, once the HD2 hit T-mobile stores, there probably won't be any video to compare to other phones, and if there is, the videos are different.
I am looking for details in film, because when I watch a movie on the go, I still enjoy the little details in the background. The little easter eggs, and stuff that you are meant to see but not on the first screening. A big but minimalistic screen is vital for such details.
If I see a basketball of the same color and shade on the basketball court because it is from the same film, I can compare that in-motion footage on two different screens. I can see if a 4.1 inch is perfect for such details, because I already have experience with 3.5 inch screens with actual video playback. And with the implication that I have experienced testing 3.5 inch screen, you should know that if I see two same objects, I can roughly imagine myself seeing the actual visual representation in real life. I am not just talking about comparing a windows icon to an apple shortcut icon. Nope, if I compare a windows icon, I must compare it to the same windows icon.
If I compare films I must compare the same films at roughly the same moment.
This is a true comparison of visuals.
And your TV argument is pointless; the contrast in size is way too apparent. And guess what, I can test that on my own.
I can no longer just listen to what people have to say about the devices, for example--my brother or the person who said that 3 inch screens are awesome. A truly unbiased review does not praise an object, but it does compare it to relevant ones.
The HD2 screen is so big that the video experience is awesome, because this fits in the reviewer's criteria. If the review simply states that the HD2 screen is bigger than the Xperia or Touch Pro2, there is no preference in the criteria. But if one gives a careful visual comparison, he can let the beholder make the decision (not the reviewer himself).
I feel like some of you are implying that I am stupid, but I wish you could understand my reasons.
poetryrocksalot said:
I wish you could understand my reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I wish you would understand why even if someone shot a video of 2 devices next to each other it wouldn't do any justice to how it actually looks like.
poetryrocksalot said:
I am looking for details in film, because when I watch a movie on the go, I still enjoy the little details in the background. The little easter eggs, and stuff that you are meant to see but not on the first screening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A compressed youtube video of the 2 will just show some half blurry screens on which you can't see anything of the little details that interest you, even if they were actually there. All you'll be able to see is that the HD2's screen is bigger, but you already know that.
Apparently we can say all we can, you seem to not have the same expectations than most of us if you were disappointed following the advice you were given with the X1. So even if we say that properly encoded video looks extremely crisp on the HD2 you'll have to see for yourself on the real thing. So wait until it hits the store, take your current phone with a short clip, go there, grab an HD2 on display, send the clip to the HD2 via bluetooth, with a coreplayer cab if needed, and do your test... that's what I did with my usual programs, spent 2 hours at the store doing what I usually do on my phone on the HD2 before buying it
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=582122
The "modded video" in the first post is a good example of good quality video for the hd2, best played with the built-in player.
I read an article from engadget saying that someone managed to tweak the camera via the OS on the Nexus One to record 720p videos. Since they both have 5mp sensors, would it be possible to do the same? The only difference is the OS, so the way we would have to accomplish this would be much more difficult I assume. It would be awesome if it could be done.
Engadget
~~Tito~~ said:
I read an article from engadget saying that someone managed to tweak the camera via the OS on the Nexus One to record 720p videos. Since they both have 5mp sensors, would it be possible to do the same? The only difference is the OS, so the way we would have to accomplish this would be much more difficult I assume. It would be awesome if it could be done.
Engadget
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the hd2 camera can record 720p videos the problem is in the windows os it hardly supports wvga mp4
Not going to happen. I'm guessing drivers will need to be written, and such in order to even get decent playback on the FPS. I wonder if there are any SD-card requirements for the N1 modification such that it needs to be Class 6 to ensure fast-write speeds.
doesnt look great even though its 720p though, probably due to bad light. I wonder if we can tweak the HD2 to at least record 720p to play back on another device such as a PC.
yeah i've been wondering the same
Same here, used the "Search" before starting a new Thread and found this one
just saw this, id be willing to donate to anyone able to get 720p on the hd2.
it would be nice, but i would honestly never use it. but for bragging purposes, i think it would be great.. haha
That would be awesome if someone could figure out how to make Windows shoot 720p, they would be my hero.
My roommate is about to get the 4th Gen iPhone, and I want to make sure that mine is in every way equal to or better than his, so I don't have to hear continuous Apple Elitism.
AyanamiZer00 said:
That would be awesome if someone could figure out how to make Windows shoot 720p, they would be my hero.
My roommate is about to get the 4th Gen iPhone, and I want to make sure that mine is in every way equal to or better than his, so I don't have to hear continuous Apple Elitism.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, why do people feel the need to compare phones? They're for different people with different tastes. If he feels the need to completely tell you how your purchase was horrible or that your phone is inferior to his, tell him to grow up and get a life or something.
And you my friend, shouldn't be bothered with trying to "prove" your phone to him. That's just downright silly.
What would we need to get this project started? We do need to know where the drivers are located at and their corresponding registry entries, as well as any registry strings that could be useful in accomplishing this.
Do you really need extra video resolution?!
At the end of the day, 720p doesn't really mean better quality, it means a larger video res. Its almost like the megapixel myth everyone believes...
Hmmm, we can still try.
~~Tito~~ said:
Hmmm, we can still try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
impossible on wm6.5 sad to say that ,windows doesnot support this resolution
Oh well lol.
the current camera app doesn't, in as much as it sits on top of winmo and isn't setup to do so. If windows can handle larger resolution pics then why not video?. has anyone tried hacking the camcorder app and the windows registry to see if it can be bastardized to do so?.
Note, video is about frame resolution and speed, if you increase the frame resolution you increase the quality.(if the cpu can handle it) The camcorder app is effectively taking still photos at 640x480 and sticking them together nothing more, theoretically if we manage to increase the resolution before stitching it should work. However there is the matter of codecs / compression, not only would winmo need to be adjusted but the codec / compression algorithum too. I am sure it could be done but it might be a mammoth task.
Well the HD2 has no HDMI output & its screen is only 800x480 so the only point of 1280x??? playback is for bragging rights
Similar issue with the iphone4, like whats the point of HD if the screen is so small you wont see the detail. Is it a higher resolution but smaller in size to HD2
Ive tried play 720 on my HD2 with a few different codecs/players & the best I got was stuttery playback.
Well if anyone has tried play 720p on a desktop PC with anything less than 1.6ghz then it will stutter. Although is a PC a whole different ballgame?
I think what would be nice for the HD2 would be 800x480 video recording with a few different codecs/bit-rates to choose from
Juno-First said:
Well the HD2 has no HDMI output & its screen is only 800x480 so the only point of 1280x??? playback is for bragging rights
Similar issue with the iphone4, like whats the point of HD if the screen is so small you wont see the detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, because people then take the video and play it back on their computer, or put it online, like with any camcorder?
kilrah said:
Huh, because people then take the video and play it back on their computer, or put it online, like with any camcorder?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh yer of course, d'oh!
Would be nice to have HD recording for playback on a pc
Doubt the quality would be brilliant, but its a phone heh heh
hehe, the whole point of tinkering IS just b/c u can do it.
y put android on the TP2, just b/c
hehe
why give the nexus one 720p
just b/c it can handle it
For the most part, the transformer tablet has been getting excellent reviews on amazon:
Asus eee pad transformer tablet reviews
However, there will always be haters, like someone wrote:
-Construction of the device not as good as the Xoom or Ipad 2 (there is some creaking)
-back light bleeding
-Tegra 2's video playback limitations (the device cannot playback high profile video 720p and up, which almost everybody uses)
*what this means is the your are going to be spending many hours encoding your high profile video to baseline profile to work on this device. Not only is it time consuming, but baseline profile will increase the file size up the 4x
-at the moment flash video playback stutters whenever playing anything HD
-app selection is not as great as Ipad at the moment
I have the tablet (two of them) and do not have any of the issues above... sure there are issues with the HQ video play back but that is not the fault of the tegra2 but the OS which I'm told has been fixed in latest release?
All of those issues have been discussed on this very board, so he's not just pulling stuff out of his ass.
Some of those can be fixed in future updates, but there's no guarantee. And until Google releases the Honeycomb source (which I'm really hoping they do, and soon!) it will be very hard for the community to fix software issues that exist outside the kernel.
Edit: Should say that despite those listed issues, I'm still really wanting to get this tablet. I possibly have too much faith in Google & Asus though.
I have no creaking, and no light bleed - maybe I'm just lucky, dunno.
As for the playback limitations, it's true... but who in his right mind would want to watch a 1080p movie on a 10-inch tablet?
I have slight creaking only in one spot.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
PublicJohnDoe said:
As for the playback limitations, it's true... but who in his right mind would want to watch a 1080p movie on a 10-inch tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of people, actually.
The issue isn't about resolution but convenience. The Transformer can never show 1080p content at full resolution (at least not without HDMI out) because the resolution on the thing is only 1280x800, which is fine for a 10" tablet. The people asking for 1080p support know that, they aren't asking for the device to do the impossible, they just want it to be able to play their 1080p content while downrezzing to 1280x800 in realtime so they don't have to spend time transcoding 1080p content they already have (because they watch it on their big TV or computer screen).
A device where you can just copy/stream your existing 1080p content over with no transcoding and watch it at full speed is very compelling and many people would love a tablet capable of doing this, myself included. As it stands right now, the Transformer is not such a tablet.
Of course, the actual issue here is Nvidia and Google's, not Asus's, but most end consumers don't know that (nor should they be expected to).
I love my Transformer and use it all the time and the pros outweigh the cons by a lot so I personally wouldn't bother nicking it in reviews the way some people are, but nothing mentioned in the OP is really incorrect. Mine doesn't have creaking or light bleed issues, but it does have an annoying-sized dust spot under the glass that it came with out of the box so I'm willing to believe they are letting some things slip in QA because of their supply limitations and so when people complain about those other things, I believe they are telling the truth even if my device doesn't have those issues... I doubt everyone else's Transformer has a dust bunny under their glass, but mine sure does. The other issues (problems with video playback and app selection) are outside of Asus' control, but still valid issues.
gmcbay said:
Lots of people, actually.
Of course, the actual issue here is Nvidia and Google's, not Asus's, but most end consumers don't know that (nor should they be expected to).
I love my Transformer and use it all the time and the pros outweigh the cons by a lot so I personally wouldn't bother nicking it in reviews the way some people are, but nothing mentioned in the OP is really incorrect. Mine doesn't have creaking or light bleed issues, but it does have an annoying-sized dust spot under the glass that it came with out of the box so I'm willing to believe they are letting some things slip in QA because of their supply limitations and so when people complain about those other things, I believe they are telling the truth even if my device doesn't have those issues... I doubt everyone else's Transformer has a dust bunny under their glass, but mine sure does. The other issues (problems with video playback and app selection) are outside of Asus' control, but still valid issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exact same thing. No creaking or light bleed but I do have some dust under the screen in one spot and it is a tad annoying sometimes.
PublicJohnDoe said:
As for the playback limitations, it's true... but who in his right mind would want to watch a 1080p movie on a 10-inch tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is this question even asked? Isn't that obvious that many people would want to connect the tablet to a TV and use it for watching 1080p movies through HDMI? And why are you suddenly a hater when you list all the problems you have with the device in a review? I think it's a very useful list for everyone who wants to buy a Trasnformer. I find that the so called "haters" write most useful reviews.
dotpro said:
For the most part, the transformer tablet has been getting excellent reviews on amazon:
Asus eee pad transformer tablet reviews
However, there will always be haters, like someone wrote:
-Construction of the device not as good as the Xoom or Ipad 2 (there is some creaking)
-back light bleeding
-Tegra 2's video playback limitations (the device cannot playback high profile video 720p and up, which almost everybody uses)
*what this means is the your are going to be spending many hours encoding your high profile video to baseline profile to work on this device. Not only is it time consuming, but baseline profile will increase the file size up the 4x
-at the moment flash video playback stutters whenever playing anything HD
-app selection is not as great as Ipad at the moment
I have the tablet (two of them) and do not have any of the issues above... sure there are issues with the HQ video play back but that is not the fault of the tegra2 but the OS which I'm told has been fixed in latest release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being told video lag was fixed on latest update
I just looked at the review on Amazon and the guy did a pretty good job. He listed not only bad things about Transformer like OP would lead us to believe but also the good ones. Here is the review: http://www.amazon.com/review/R344X0QWNRS2H7/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R344X0QWNRS2H7
Vigneshd said:
Exact same thing. No creaking or light bleed but I do have some dust under the screen in one spot and it is a tad annoying sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dust under the screen would be a deal breaker for me.
I would exchange it until they get it right.
I can understand a used tablet having issues but a brand new tablet should be flawless.
I should be getting mine next week and will be looking for any of the defects listed on this forum.
If we accept poor quality control, we are telling the manufacturer we have low standards and they will not improve the quality.
Nascar Dog said:
Dust under the screen would be a deal breaker for me.
I would exchange it until they get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally I'd agree with you but there are no units in stock to do exchanges for.
I'm sure I could send the unit into ASUS directly as an RMA, but then that means not having access to the tablet for weeks, months... who knows? So for now I'm just trying to live with it.
dotpro said:
For the most part, the transformer tablet has been getting excellent reviews on amazon:
Asus eee pad transformer tablet reviews
However, there will always be haters, like someone wrote:
-Construction of the device not as good as the Xoom or Ipad 2 (there is some creaking)
-back light bleeding
-Tegra 2's video playback limitations (the device cannot playback high profile video 720p and up, which almost everybody uses)
*what this means is the your are going to be spending many hours encoding your high profile video to baseline profile to work on this device. Not only is it time consuming, but baseline profile will increase the file size up the 4x
-at the moment flash video playback stutters whenever playing anything HD
-app selection is not as great as Ipad at the moment
I have the tablet (two of them) and do not have any of the issues above... sure there are issues with the HQ video play back but that is not the fault of the tegra2 but the OS which I'm told has been fixed in latest release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but that is not a hater, but someone with his/her own personal opinion.
LordLugard said:
Sorry, but that is not a hater, but someone with his/her own personal opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I posted my review with my bricking experience and it is being downvoted. Fanbois will be fanbois, no matter the platform.
Surprised they haven't told you to JUST BUY AN IPAD!!!! That is also a standard response when you raise any questions about Honeycomb or the tablets it runs on. The OS is not going to get any better if we just accept its problems without complaint.
gmcbay said:
[SNIP]
I doubt everyone else's Transformer has a dust bunny under their glass, but mine sure does. The other issues (problems with video playback and app selection) are outside of Asus' control, but still valid issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry to hear about the dust under the screen - that would annoy me, especially when reading a book. This may not help but have you tried getting a plastic comb really staticky and moving it above the spot to see if you can move the dust speck out of the way? I seem to recall doing this to an old watch with a similar problem but, of course, this may not be as simple.